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Author Topic: a better 3050 panther  (Read 1336 times)

Skyth

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #30 on: 06 May 2021, 20:22:52 »
Adding a medium laser just feels wrong to me.  Panther is defined by big right arm cannon and a missile launcher as a secondary weapon.

S.gage

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #31 on: 07 May 2021, 07:39:15 »
Well, the original Panther fluff goes to some effort to make the Panther into an urban ambush fighter... Alley Kat and all that... which arguably doesn't make much sense for a 'Mech with a PPC as its primary weapon.

Hear me out, I could actually see this if the original had an ER PPC. With an intro of 2759, it is plausible the standard PPC was an unreported downgrade. The long range is not necessarily lost, especially if your ambush involves blasting the intervening light building. Nothing says, “surprise!”, like a building exploding to reveal a bunch of Panthers and a cloud of SRMs :o
« Last Edit: 07 May 2021, 07:41:04 by S.gage »
"WHO PUT 6 ARMOR ON THE RIFLEMAN'S HEAD?!?" - Peter S., while marking damage from a PPC, 1994.
"Ich bin Jadefalke!!!! Ich bin MechKrieger!!!!" - German students on their field trip to Leipzig, 1998.
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Skyth

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #32 on: 08 May 2021, 07:05:03 »
In my experience, PPC's are still viable weapons in city fights.  Typical engagement ranges would be 3-4 hexes and there isn't a lot of terrain modifiers and people move slower so less tmm.

The Panther has decent armor, the jump jets give it mobility, and it packs a punch with weapons that work at typical engagement ranges.

Hellraiser

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #33 on: 08 May 2021, 19:44:18 »
Hear me out, I could actually see this if the original had an ER PPC. With an intro of 2759, it is plausible the standard PPC was an unreported downgrade. The long range is not necessarily lost, especially if your ambush involves blasting the intervening light building. Nothing says, “surprise!”, like a building exploding to reveal a bunch of Panthers and a cloud of SRMs :o
ERPPC was confined to Hegemony Royal units still IIRC due to being so new.
That said the Original had a LL & was upgraded to PPC for Production.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

S.gage

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #34 on: 08 May 2021, 23:35:00 »
ERPPC was confined to Hegemony Royal units still IIRC due to being so new.
That said the Original had a LL & was upgraded to PPC for Production.

Urban combatants/protectors, in this case DC soldiers, being willing to level their own city, was supposed to be a joke. You know what they say: if you need to explain it, it’s probably not funny. That said, it is good to know how sound the original premise was. I’ll have to look through Hegemony light ‘Mechs next time.  ;)

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"WHO PUT 6 ARMOR ON THE RIFLEMAN'S HEAD?!?" - Peter S., while marking damage from a PPC, 1994.
"Ich bin Jadefalke!!!! Ich bin MechKrieger!!!!" - German students on their field trip to Leipzig, 1998.
Custom Early Clan Refit BattleMechs, Custom Novel Golden Century BattleMechs, Custom Early Clan Refit Combat Vehicles, Custom First Generation OmniMechs.

Hellraiser

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #35 on: 10 May 2021, 13:15:18 »
I don't recall the specifics of the 8Z which was the original IIRC, but I think it was just 2 more SHS.

Venting 15 heat every turn is perfect for an Jumping Alpha so a Panther wouldn't be very accurate like that but in close w/ LL & SRMs its go know issues showing up behind you for a full blast & a Kick before bouncing away again.

I could see a Lance of those w/ some Infantry being a real pain for some Heavier mechs to deal with in the middle of a city.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Karack Blackstone

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #36 on: 10 May 2021, 15:52:09 »
Panther 2D - Designation free to change.

Code: [Select]
Panther 2D

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 3,638,318 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,002

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 140 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  Heavy PPC
    1  SRM-4
    1  Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      58 points                3.50
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          140                       4.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 116                  6.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 1 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA
    CASE Locations: 1 LT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     11           16       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     8            12       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     8            15       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy PPC                                    RA        15        4        10.00
Small Laser                                  LA        1         1         0.50
SRM-4                                        CT        3         1         2.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 3

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 10
4j         3       3       2       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Karack Blackstone

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #37 on: 10 May 2021, 15:56:46 »
Or this one...

Panther 3R

Code: [Select]
Panther 3R

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 3,752,730 C-Bills
Battle Value: 939

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 140 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  Medium Laser
    1  SRM-4
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      58 points                3.50
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          140                       4.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT, 1 LA
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 116                  6.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT, 5 LA, 6 RA
    CASE Locations: 1 LT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     11           16       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     8            12       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     8            15       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        3         7.00
SRM-4                                        CT        3         1         2.00
Medium Laser                                 CT        3         1         1.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
@SRM-4 (Inferno) (25)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 9
4j         3       3       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Hellraiser

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #38 on: 10 May 2021, 16:43:00 »
I feel like between Endo, Ferro, & DHS, there is enough weight savings to not have to use a Light Engine on the Panther which is almost useless really.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #39 on: 10 May 2021, 16:53:42 »
Agreed... on engines that small, the survivability hit is bigger than the weight savings...

guardiandashi

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #40 on: 11 May 2021, 08:34:17 »
I would only use a light or XL engine if I was trying to bump the speed up to 6/9 or higher

something like
Code: [Select]
               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    Panther turbo PNT-10K++
Tech:          Inner Sphere / 3050
Config:        Biped BattleMech
Rules:         Level 2, Standard design

Mass:          35 tons
Chassis:       Alshain 560-Carrier Endo Steel
Power Plant:   280 Hermes XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Jump Jets:     4 Lexington Ltd. Lifters Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor Type:    Maximillian 42 Standard
Armament:     
  1 Lord's Light 2 ER PPC
  1 Telos-4 SRM 4
Manufacturer:  Alshain Weapons, Gorton, Kingsley, and Thorpe Enterprises
  Location:    Krenice (Alshain), Satalice (GK&T)
Communications System:  Sipher CommCon SCU-4
Targeting & Tracking System:  Cat's Eyes 5 w. Artemis IV System

==Overview:==
     Produced only by Alshain Weapons and its parent company, Gorton, Kingsley, and Thorpe Enterprises, the Panther has been the preeminent light 'Mech for House Kurita throughout the Succession Wars.  With the New Oslo factory falling inside the Free Rasalhague Republic, the Panther also played an important part in the new KungsArme, especially the Husar regiments. 
     Ten years ago, the Panther was produced on two planets, New Oslo and Jarett, both of which have fallen to the Clans.  With the New Oslo plant disassembled and the Jarett one gutted before their loss to the Clans, the production of Panthers has dropped dramatically.
     Alshain Weapons already had plans to build another factory on Krenice, but the Clan invasion telescoped those plans.  Still out of production because of the loss of Jarett, Panthers incorporating recovered technology are expected to begin marching off the line at Krenice sometime within the next year.
     The availability of Star League technology has given Gorton, Kingsley, and Thorpe the chance to make a good thing better at its rebuilt factory on Satalice.  Though the Panther was already well-armed and -armored, GK&T is planning to improve both weapons systems and to beef up the 'Mech's defenses besides.  The use of Endo Steel internal structure saves enough weight to allow the other changes.
     The excellent Lord's Light particle Beam Weapon is replaced by the second-generation, extended-range Lord's Light 2.  Field trials have shown no problems with the new system.  The reliable Cat's Eyes 5 targeting system has been merged with the Artemis IV fire-control system, greatly improving the accuracy of the Telos-4 Short-Range Missiles.  Though the Panther is well-armored for a light 'Mech, an occasional lucky shot could detonate the missile reloads, making this model a perfect candidate for Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment.  Panthers with such equipment are just beginning to reach the most prestigious units.

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Panther turbo PNT-10K++
Mass:          35 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  58 pts Endo Steel            14      2.00
 (Endo Steel Loc: 4 LA, 3 RA, 3 LT, 4 RT)
Engine:        280 XL                       12      8.00
   Walking MP:   8
   Running MP:  12
   Jumping MP:   4
Heat Sinks:     10 Double [20]               0       .00
Gyro:                                        4      3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H   16       .00
Armor Factor:  104 pts Standard              0      6.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9     
   Center Torso:             11         14     
   Center Torso (Rear):                  7     
   L/R Side Torso:            8      10/10     
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              5/5     
   L/R Arm:                   6      10/10     
   L/R Leg:                   8      12/12     

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC                 RA     15           3      7.00
1 SRM 4                  CT      3   25      2      3.00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
CASE Equipment:          LT                  1       .50
4 Standard Jump Jets:                        4      2.00
 (Jump Jet Loc: 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         18          61     35.00
Crits & Tons Left:                          17       .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        6,309,810 C-Bills
Battle Value:      995
Cost per BV:       6,341.52
Weapon Value:      596 / 596 (Ratio = .60 / .60)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 14;  MRDmg = 8;  LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2:      MP: 8,  Armor/Structure: 3/1
                   Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: ML;  Point Value: 10
« Last Edit: 11 May 2021, 08:39:45 by guardiandashi »

kindalas

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #41 on: 11 May 2021, 12:48:43 »
Can you still place Atremis IV in a mech's head for a CT mounted launcher?

Because then you would have space for the 5th JJ

Hellraiser

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #42 on: 11 May 2021, 18:15:52 »
I've looked at "Light" Engines across a lot of canon mechs over the years & in "almost" every case I'd prefer a SFE or XL.


A few examples of a WELL done Light Engine.

#1  The 400LFE on the Berzerker-C3   (Probably my favorite)

#2  The 275LFE on the Griffin-6S  (Solid 2nd place)

#3  The 320 on the Zeus/Victor    (Though I'm not of the actual weapons layout on the models that use these)

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #43 on: 11 May 2021, 18:27:27 »
That's the best TPTB have done with Light Fusion Engines?  ???

DOC_Agren

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #44 on: 17 May 2021, 19:37:53 »
It has DHS that makes it better right from the start  :thumbsup:
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Daryk

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #45 on: 17 May 2021, 19:41:24 »
QFT!  :D

Hellraiser

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Re: a better 3050 panther
« Reply #46 on: 18 May 2021, 17:57:25 »
That's the best TPTB have done with Light Fusion Engines?  ???

Well those are my own personal favs,  the list also doesn't include anything post Jihad since I'm way off in tracking all the different models there.

But yeah, from TRO3067 & Project Phoenix & some of the early Upgrade series,  the above I liked, and not much else.

Mostly because, as I said, for MANY of the engine ratings, its just not worth going LFE at certain Mech Weights.

For a lot of stuff a minor tweak would give you the durability of the SFE or allow the XL weight savings to give you a lot more guns.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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