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Author Topic: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!  (Read 1017 times)

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #30 on: 01 May 2021, 16:13:01 »
Second one is the -7W. I don't like IJJs but given the era and the fact the Grasshopper has always been a jumping design, this feels natural modification. Mostly like the 6W minus endo-steel and different weapons with a major difference: Slower speed but uses 5 IJJs. Armament is close-combat focused with a Snubby and medium pulse lasers.
 

This one is not to my liking.  You shrunk the engine going to 3/5/5.  That movement isn't a Grasshopper to me.  If you want to jump 5 then use a 280 engine (Light or XL if you have to save the weight) and put hardened armor on it so you get 4/5/5.  Still seems wasted as most of the time you would just walk. 
I know you went for close combat but the weapons feel anemic, and way too short ranged.  At that point you might as well add a melee weapon, but face it you are too slow to get where you want to be. 
A light PPC isn't gonna be enough sniping with your network buddies, which doesn't help the slow problem either. 

Lastly you have just a snubbie in the CT but you used a compact gyro to get more space.  I see you put the 5th IJJ there to balance the design, but you don't have to do that.  They can be uneven.  Or you could have the regular engine size and get a 6th one and be nice and mobile. 

My quartermasters aren't gonna touch this one. 

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #31 on: 01 May 2021, 16:38:57 »

In order to improve this Cavalry role, the engine was increased in size but replaced with a Light version and an additional Jump Jet was added to maximize the mobility.

I realize this one is supposed to be a failure so I won't comment on the anemic weapons, I get that it fulfills its role of being a failure. 

In any case I love the flavor of this guy.  Stealth armor with the iC3 it never works but it always shows up and tries.   

Making the engine bigger give no room for weapons, and they are expected to be head hunters.  There are great stories to be written of the desperate pilots with Blakist fanaticism trying to to kill the enemies of the Word with their water pistols.  And their poor lance mates having to try to keep their allies alive who turn on stealth and go after the biggest thing around. 

On the other hand being a Word mech I might look at trying a Void system instead.  Moving slowly with a void and taking a position to snipe and turning off the void to reconnect to the network could work well.  When anyone comes at you slip back into void and slowly find a new spot. 
With that I might consider lowering the engine to 3/5/X you never want to move fast with a void.  But long ranged and slow is not a Grasshopper, but it is a lovely challenge for another time.   
 
« Last Edit: 01 May 2021, 16:59:17 by Iceweb »

Empyrus

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #32 on: 01 May 2021, 16:49:17 »
But the canonically existing new-build Grasshopper factories we know of are on Hun Ho and maybe Arc-Royal, aren't they? Are we operating on the assumption they get the Bryant factory operational again?
Err, i have no idea. I didn't actually read Iceweb's requirements that closely...

This one is not to my liking.  You shrunk the engine going to 3/5/5.  That movement isn't a Grasshopper to me.  If you want to jump 5 then use a 280 engine (Light or XL if you have to save the weight) and put hardened armor on it so you get 4/5/5.  Still seems wasted as most of the time you would just walk. 
I agree the movement is terrible. As i said, i went with the era theme (TRO3075 and more so TRO 3085), which was way too much newtechitis, often in the form i did: shrinking engine and using IJJs. Something the WoB was very guilty off.

If i really want 5 jump, i'll just use 5/8/5 movement, but i'm not gonna try to cram that into a Grasshopper. Possible with an XL engine, but then you lose the durability of Grasshoppers are famed for.

As for hardened armor, well, i stuck with standard tournament legal tech here. Most TacOps techs are only truly available post-Jihad. I'd be inclined to reserve advanced tech refits for newer, more advanced 'Mechs, higher rated units, and officers, and the Grasshopper is unlikely thing in any of those categories me thinks.

EDIT Ok, so, i'll give this yet another try. This time i'm having the revised StratOps refit rules open while doing this. So aiming for Class D at most to avoid factory visit.
« Last Edit: 01 May 2021, 16:51:13 by Empyrus »
Minis needed for Atlas AS7-K2, Stalking Spider II; Kishi, Oni, Zou, Simian, Quirinus and Centaur battle armor; DI Multipurpose VTOL, Kinnol tank, JES III missile carrier.

Empyrus

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #33 on: 01 May 2021, 17:10:25 »
Okay, this time, Class D refit based on the GHR-5N.
Realized that cockpit mods are actually Class E, so no small cockpit this time. XL gyro is not idea for durability but i wanted some extra mass beyond just using DHS and (maxed out) light-ferro fibrous armor. And since the 5N has a PPC on the right torso, it felt natural to slot the main weapon there rather than CT as in GHR-5H-based Grasshoppers. It is now a heavy PPC, backed up by five ER medium lasers.

This is not a highly advanced killing machine, this is just an enhanced Grasshopper of 5N type.

Code: [Select]
Grasshopper GHR-5W

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 8 496 373 C-Bills
Total Cost: 8 496 373 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1 840

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Heavy PPC
    5  ER Medium Lasers
    1  Improved C3 Computer
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     107 points                7,00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                280                      16,00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         4,00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             18(36)                    8,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro:               XL                                                     1,50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Light Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 217                 13,00
    Armor Locations: 1 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           31       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  13       
                                           L/R Torso     15           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10       
                                             L/R Arm     11           22       
                                             L/R Leg     15           30       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1,00
Heavy PPC                                    RT        15        4        10,00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1,00
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2,50
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1,00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 18
4j         4       4       2       0      3     0   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: C3I, ENE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


Also a customized variant for someone with a bit of clout to requisition some extra stuff:
This one has standard gyro, engine is supercharged, small cockpit with Laser AMS in the head, Guardian ECM and the HPPC is replaced with a Snubby with Capacitor.

Code: [Select]
Grasshopper GHR-5W Custom

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 13 734 923 C-Bills
Total Cost: 13 734 923 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1 906

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h (86,4 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Snub-Nose PPC + PPC Capacitor
    4  ER Medium Lasers
    1  Improved C3 Computer
    1  Guardian ECM Suite
    1  Laser Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     107 points                7,00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                280                      16,00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6 (8)
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         4,00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    7,00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro:               Standard                                               3,00
Cockpit:            Small                                                  2,00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Light Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 212                 12,50
    Armor Locations: 1 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           30       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  13       
                                           L/R Torso     15           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  10       
                                             L/R Arm     11           22       
                                             L/R Leg     15           28       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1,00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1,00
Snub-Nose PPC + PPC Capacitor                RT        15        2         6,00
    Snub-Nose PPC + PPC Capacitor            RT        5*        1         1,00
Improved C3 Computer                         LT        0         2         2,50
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1,00
Guardian ECM Suite                           LT        0         2         1,50
Supercharger                                 CT        -         1         2,00
Laser Anti-Missile System                    HD        7         2         1,50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 19
5/4j       3       3       0       0      3     0   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: C3I, ECM, AMS, ENE, MHQ2, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Minis needed for Atlas AS7-K2, Stalking Spider II; Kishi, Oni, Zou, Simian, Quirinus and Centaur battle armor; DI Multipurpose VTOL, Kinnol tank, JES III missile carrier.

Charistoph

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #34 on: 01 May 2021, 18:01:35 »
I realize this one is supposed to be a failure so I won't comment on the anemic weapons, I get that it fulfills its role of being a failure. 

Yeah, in a way, it's almost like a Charger in many respects.  It COULD work so long as you are only expecting it to get in quick and point out the targets to everyone. 

In any case I love the flavor of this guy.  Stealth armor with the iC3 it never works but it always shows up and tries.

The funny part is that when I thought I had finished it, I remembered the OP's request to get iC3 in there!  I had to go back and refit a lot of weaponry for it.  I didn't even know that Stealth conflicted with C3 (no one has run either against me around here), but it definitely adds more to the Ghost Hunter boondoggle story, doesn't it?

At best, it can use Stealth to make it easier to get in close, and then switch from Stealth to C3 to spot for it's Level-mates.  It's tough enough to survive hits that most normal scouts won't, then when it's time to get out of dodge and relocate, Stealth and haul.

But yeah, when I saw the Ghost Hunter variant I just HAD to build it for this content.

Making the engine bigger give no room for weapons, and they are expected to be head hunters.  There are great stories to be written of the desperate pilots with Blakist fanaticism trying to to kill the enemies of the Word with their water pistols.  And their poor lance mates having to try to keep their allies alive who turn on stealth and go after the biggest thing around. 

I could have fit more in if I hadn't tried to make it a Cavalry Scout, but the idea of something with Stealth Armor not trying to move fast seemed.... odd to me.
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Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #35 on: 01 May 2021, 20:52:59 »
A Grasshopper refit for the Protectorate Militia and other Word of Blake commands that are low on the quarter master's priority list.

I love this redheaded stepchild of a mech as much as I hate it.  I feel like this rebuild needs to be inspired by someone FrankenMeching a whole bunch of junked Mechs together in desperation of providing some working war material.  I would love to hear how each limb or component in the first one came from which different mech and all the issues it had getting to the battlefield. 

I absolutely love the C3 Master to provide TAG but only has a LRM5 rack to exploit the SG rounds.  But really other than the computer and advanced missiles this thing is just introtech.  And I love the scrappy little guy.

fallen

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #36 on: 01 May 2021, 20:58:01 »
But the canonically existing new-build Grasshopper factories we know of are on Hun Ho and maybe Arc-Royal, aren't they? Are we operating on the assumption they get the Bryant factory operational again?

Well there is that interesting tease in TRO 3050 upgrades...

Quote
Rumors abound that the Bryant plant may not be as
lost as previously thought, as higher-than-expected concentrations
of Grasshoppers have been observed in Word
of Blake forces.
« Last Edit: 01 May 2021, 21:18:52 by fallen »
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fallen

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #37 on: 01 May 2021, 21:11:22 »
Iceweb, thanks for the props on my designs.  I have seen some incredible mechs in this thread.  Some of these Grasshoppers are downright scary.  Variable speed pulse lasers, heavy PPCs, retractable blades, improved jump jets, wow!  If I ever get to sit at a table for a game of battletech with any of you designers, I had better bring my "A" game!
« Last Edit: 01 May 2021, 21:20:27 by fallen »
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truetanker

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #38 on: 04 May 2021, 01:30:45 »
You do know that the -7K model is your answer!

RoTs and most Jihad combatants removed the C3i from WoB machinery.

The -7K has been " fixed ".

So remove the ECM and C3 and replace with C3i instead!

Problem fixed...

TT

Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Hellraiser

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #39 on: 10 May 2021, 13:30:13 »
You do know that the -7K model is your answer!

RoTs and most Jihad combatants removed the C3i from WoB machinery.

The -7K has been " fixed ".

So remove the ECM and C3 and replace with C3i instead!

Problem fixed...

TT

THIS ^^^^ 

The "Reverse-ROTS" method works on many 3060's era designs.




That said,  a quick & dirty using the OP mentioned 5N...........Let me see if I have the math on this ....


RT-PPC = RT-ERPPC    (Sniping as you close)
5 MLs?  (HD, CT, LT, RA, LA)  =  5 MPLs       (Accurate when in spotting range + 5 Tons)
Add ECM & iC3   (Spotter/CounterSpotter Gear + 4 Tons)
12 Tons Ferro Armor  (Save 1 Ton & Maxed protection)
14 DHS   (Save 8 Tons)

I think that gives you an energy zombie that won't care if you bath it in Infernos for a turn even on a Jumping/MPL combo.


A little stolen FS Tech would allow you to go 5 ERMLs,  TC,  & 16 DHS but I don't think that really does much for you on a mech where you actually WANT to be inside 6 hexes for the ECM bubble & to give good #s to rest of the Lvl-II

I'd be looking to Run/Jump every turn & get into Kick range as often as possible so the MPLs are my default option on a mech like this.



Finally, a 3rd option would be to keep the ML's but add a couple more for 7 total & use an ERLL to snipe.
   This still gives you a 3 ton TC & ability to hit from 7-9 with the Mediums if needed.


But again, I'm just a fan of the MPL option, I always liked the 6K for accuracy as I jump/run every turn.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #40 on: 12 May 2021, 00:05:04 »
But again, I'm just a fan of the MPL option, I always liked the 6K for accuracy as I jump/run every turn.

I have fallen out of taste with the so short range on the MPL, however the time period allows MXPL though you have to watch the heat.  Leave some of the mediums standard to keep cooler and you have a happy Blakist here. 

truetanker

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #41 on: 12 May 2021, 01:20:44 »
M-VSPL

It's best not to make them angry... 9 points w/ -3 to hit, 2 hexes... or 7 with the " standard -2 " and again -1 at long for 5 points... yet it's 4 tons each.

I'd say the -7K as is but modified with a single torso-mounted L-VSPL and a third L-PPC, keeping everything as is. Though the C3 Slave could go for another ER Medium, or a pair of Smalls if enough crits are there.

But then again, Augment them gives further bonuses as well...
( Pain Shunt < such goodness here >, VNDI < -1 to Gunnery / Piloting >, Multi-Model Eye / Ear implants : Laser-Sight eye boosts < -1 to-hit > / C3i boost < no need for a C3i circuit >, Dermal Armor < ignores damage from falls or cockpit hits > )

Your Welkome!
TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Hellraiser

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #42 on: 12 May 2021, 10:31:40 »
I have fallen out of taste with the so short range on the MPL, however the time period allows MXPL though you have to watch the heat.  Leave some of the mediums standard to keep cooler and you have a happy Blakist here.

On many mechs, I'd agree,  on a Zombie-Heavy designed to get inside ECM range & spot w/ for C3,  then I have zero issues w/ the MPL.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #43 on: 13 May 2021, 12:04:25 »
M-VSPL
yet it's 4 tons each.
 

Yeah the damn V weighs so much extra (and pushes the year a little 72 being minimum)  Never feels like you can fit enough to make the throw weight worth it, except maybe on the large where you are just saying screw the weight it's a primary weapon. 

As long as we are in fan rules I would love to see an iVSPL that had some ability to act as a rengineered laser and ignore special armor, or act as just the weird pulse when blasting stuff with a regular shell. 

It sounds right up the Word's ally when they make their inevitable return.   

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #44 on: 13 May 2021, 12:08:04 »
On many mechs, I'd agree,  on a Zombie-Heavy designed to get inside ECM range & spot w/ for C3,  then I have zero issues w/ the MPL.
 

Yes the zombie is a good place for them, but I tend not to see Grasshoppers as point men to spot but brawler who gets inside after the point man to bully anything left standing. 

I guess if I am gonna load up with MPL to go brawling I want some sort of melee weapon and/or TSM to go all out on the in your face aspect.  Do you think you can improve the mynomer and/or put a retractable blade or something on it?

Hellraiser

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #45 on: 13 May 2021, 14:36:46 »
I guess if I am gonna load up with MPL to go brawling I want some sort of melee weapon and/or TSM to go all out on the in your face aspect.  Do you think you can improve the mynomer and/or put a retractable blade or something on it?

Oh sure, but I was just tossing out "Field Refits".

Ideally my TSM/C3Spotter is a 55 ton mech with IJJ's & TSM.
Nothing says love like Jump-8 + Headcapping Punches or PSR forcing Kicks.......after getting pasted by the Gauss fire from the rest of my Company  >:D
   (Myself, I like to use the Wolverine as my go to "mod" for this set up, because, you know, he likes to get up close & personal with you "bub".)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Iceweb

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Re: Challenge Word of Blake Grasshoppers!
« Reply #46 on: 13 May 2021, 14:53:45 »
Oh sure, but I was just tossing out "Field Refits".

Yeah field refits was more of the idea, but that really only applies to the mynomer.  The retractable blade shouldn't be that much worse than putting other weapons on.  On the other hand I've always wondered how hard it is to replace the mynomer in the field.  I know what class it is listed as, but obviously mynomer takes battle damage all the time in addition to wear and tear.  It gets replaced without too much trouble when repairing mechs, I'm sure it is not as simple as use bundle X instead of bundle Y but given sufficient internal space in the mech it doesn't seem like you would have all that much problem rethreading a mech since you replace the various bits of mynomer every so often anyways. 

Then sometimes you just gotta say screw the refit and make a factory line to showcase an awesome design :) 

Love the wolverine BTW, I think I defaulted to the Buccaneer for a spotter platform; basically the same concept. 

 

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