Author Topic: MC Desperate Measures Boss mechs (Read 896 times)

Colt Ward · « **on:** 01 August 2022, 21:17:22 »

Katherine Furey

Piloted her custom configuration Mad Dog with jump jets, which I THINK had the Rail Guns. Not sure what would approximate that for table top.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #1 on:** 01 August 2022, 21:23:37 »

Marcus Osis
Piloted a Warhawk? this one I think was armed with the Long Tom Cannons . . . which will not fit on a Warhawk.

Masakari (Warhawk) Marcus Osis Base Tech Level: Experimental Mixed (Base Clan)
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E Weight: 85 tons BV: 1,378 Cost: 27,146,823 C-bills Source: TRO 3050 - Succession Wars Movement: 4/6/4 Engine: 340 XL Double Heat Sinks: 15 [30] Gyro: Standard Gyro Internal: 130 Armor: 259/263 (Ferro-Fibrous)

Internal/Armor
Head
3/9

Center Torso
27/42

Center Torso (rear)
10

Right Torso
18/26

Right Torso (rear)
10

Left Torso
18/26

Left Torso (rear)
10

Right Arm
14/28

Left Arm
14/28

Right Leg
18/35

Left Leg
18/35

Weapons
Sniper Cannon
RA/RT 10 Pod

Sniper Cannon
LA/LT 10 Pod

Ammo/Loc/Shots/Omni
Fuel-Air Sniper Cannon Ammo/LT/10/Pod
Sniper Cannon Ammo/LT/10/Pod
Sniper Cannon Ammo/LT/10/Pod

Equipment/Loc/Omni
Targeting Computer [Clan]/RT/Pod
CASE II/LT/Pod

Colt Ward · « **Reply #2 on:** 01 August 2022, 21:28:43 »

Then Star Colonel Burnell Wirth had a Turkina he outfitted with Thunderbolts that did some minor AoE damage when they hit, I think. He carried 4 of them on the Turkina.

Turkina Burnell Wirth Base Tech Level: Advanced Mixed (Base Clan)
Level
Era
Experimental
-
Advanced
-
Standard
3150+
Tech Rating: F/X-X-X-E Weight: 95 tons BV: 2,452 Cost: 28,281,094 C-bills Source: TRO 3058 - Clan Invasion Movement: 3/5/3 Engine: 285 XL Double Heat Sinks: 13 [26] Gyro: Standard Gyro Internal: 145 Armor: 288/293

Internal
Armor

Head
3
9

Center Torso
30
45

Center Torso (rear)

10

Right Torso
20
30

Right Torso (rear)

10

Left Torso
20
30

Left Torso (rear)

10

Right Arm
16
32

Left Arm
16
32

Right Leg
20
40

Left Leg
20
40

Weapons
Loc
Heat
Omni
Thunderbolt 20 (IS)
LA
8
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 (IS)
RA
8
Pod
Thunderbolt 5 (IS)
RA
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 5 (IS)
LA
3
Pod

Ammo
Loc
Shots
Omni
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
LT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
LT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
LT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
RT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
RT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 20 Ammo
RT
3
Pod
Thunderbolt 5 Ammo
RT
12
Pod
Thunderbolt 5 Ammo
LT
12
Pod
Carrying Capacity One battle armor squad

Empyrus · « **Reply #3 on:** 01 August 2022, 22:00:34 »

For a railgun, wouldn't improved heavy gauss rifle match the idea pretty well?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #4 on:** 01 August 2022, 23:48:41 »

That is what I looked at, but two were mounted and the weight does not allow it.

pfarland · « **Reply #5 on:** 02 August 2022, 02:02:02 »

'Rail Gun' might just be a misnomer for Gauss Rifle, similar enough in concept and function if not execution.

Kerfuffin(925) · « **Reply #6 on:** 02 August 2022, 02:18:23 »

There is one canon variant of Mad Dog that has JJ, the S that appeared in the new Battle of Tukayyid book. While it doesn’t have Gauss/rail rifles it has 2-15 point weapons in PPCs. That might be a good place to start. Cause the C with two Gauss and the minimum 2 tons per gun has room for nothing else at all.

pfarland · « **Reply #7 on:** 02 August 2022, 04:03:40 »

IS Light Gauss Rifles?

Timeless · « **Reply #8 on:** 02 August 2022, 05:05:48 »

My guess would be the C configuration with the gauss rifles replaced with HAG20s and either 3 or 5 jump jets added.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #9 on:** 02 August 2022, 07:28:47 »

Ok, so I am guessing folks did not play the game- understandable, it is 'old' now lol. Cermak was a SLDF world and the Jags dug up some hidden weapons caches which is where the bloodnamed Jaguars got all the special/experimental SLDF weapons that boosted their damage potential. The game already had Gauss Rifles and I think intro'd the Lights in this expansion . . . but railguns were different- more damage, and less ammo IIRC.

iHGRs would work except they weigh too much, I might do HAGs to increase the damage potential but it will not take off a section of a mech on a hit.

RifleMech · « **Reply #10 on:** 02 August 2022, 15:52:49 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 02 August 2022, 07:28:47

Ok, so I am guessing folks did not play the game- understandable, it is 'old' now lol. Cermak was a SLDF world and the Jags dug up some hidden weapons caches which is where the bloodnamed Jaguars got all the special/experimental SLDF weapons that boosted their damage potential. The game already had Gauss Rifles and I think intro'd the Lights in this expansion . . . but railguns were different- more damage, and less ammo IIRC.

iHGRs would work except they weigh too much, I might do HAGs to increase the damage potential but it will not take off a section of a mech on a hit.

What game is this? It sounds cool.

Are there any other details on the Mad Dog or the Rail Guns? The C variant could work. Up the damage +5 and reduce the ammo in half. Pulling the extra DHS would allow the amount of ammo to be doubled.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #11 on:** 02 August 2022, 16:06:51 »

The designs come from the 'boss' mechs of MechCommander's Desperate Measures expansion campaign. The four bloodnamed warriors were the final mechs you fought after completing most objectives. I need a connector for my CD drive to be able to get it to run again, otherwise I could do a comparison . . . but yeah, the weapons would be with HGR properties and as suggested I THINK it only had 4 shots. MechCommander's customization did not let you add more ammo for weapons, so Gauss armed mechs were problematic with being limited to 8 shots . . . typically you would hammer something and then if it was not dying you switched to energy weapon only to conserve AC, Gauss, and LRM ammo.

RifleMech · « **Reply #12 on:** 02 August 2022, 18:09:05 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 02 August 2022, 16:06:51

The designs come from the 'boss' mechs of MechCommander's Desperate Measures expansion campaign. The four bloodnamed warriors were the final mechs you fought after completing most objectives. I need a connector for my CD drive to be able to get it to run again, otherwise I could do a comparison . . . but yeah, the weapons would be with HGR properties and as suggested I THINK it only had 4 shots. MechCommander's customization did not let you add more ammo for weapons, so Gauss armed mechs were problematic with being limited to 8 shots . . . typically you would hammer something and then if it was not dying you switched to energy weapon only to conserve AC, Gauss, and LRM ammo.

Didn't get to play that one.

Sounds cool though. Not being able to add more ammo is a bummer though. Although removing the extra heat sinks and adding ammo would require a factory if you wanted to keep the Mech an OMNI. So I guess I can understand no more ammo for the Mad Dog C. Still, it sounds like the Rail Gun has been figured out.

Now to make it canon.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #13 on:** 03 August 2022, 09:58:40 »

Just to outline the differences between the Clan Gauss Rifle and Rail Gun . . .

CLAN GAUSS CANNON
Cost: 18520
Load Value: 13.5
Recycle: 5.0
Damage: 7.5
Gauss: 16

RAIL GUN
Cost: 16215
Load Value: 30.0
Recycle: 7.5
Damage: 20.0
Ammo: 15

so yeah, two Rail Guns would definitely not fit on a Mad Dog- lol, 60 tons with the ammo included.

Luciora · « **Reply #14 on:** 03 August 2022, 10:06:56 »

Load value is (weapon weight+1 ton of ammo+requisite heatsinks to equal 0 heat) the thing with the rail Cannon is we do not know the heat or weapon weight.

Quote from: Colt Ward on 03 August 2022, 09:58:40

Just to outline the differences between the Clan Gauss Rifle and Rail Gun . . .

CLAN GAUSS CANNON
Cost: 18520
Load Value: 13.5
Recycle: 5.0
Damage: 7.5
Gauss: 16

RAIL GUN
Cost: 16215
Load Value: 30.0
Recycle: 7.5
Damage: 20.0
Ammo: 15

so yeah, two Rail Guns would definitely not fit on a Mad Dog- lol, 60 tons with the ammo included.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #15 on:** 03 August 2022, 10:34:19 »

The Gauss is 2t ammo but is trying to set a typical sortie use, but the ammo value varies by type . . . my honest assessment would be the Rail Gun has 3t ammo (5 shots each), and if the damage is 2.6 we could suggest heat is at least that if not 3 times Clan Gauss . . .

So system is 30t, minus 3t for ammo and 2t for a IS DHS . . . 25 or so tons for a Rail Gun, is it worth it for 2.6 times the Gauss Rifle damage . . . 39 damage? Wow that would be a OSK for most mediums or smaller on a XL side torso.

RifleMech · « **Reply #16 on:** 03 August 2022, 14:59:03 »

Yeah at 30 tons it isn't going to fit. Not that the weights listed help. The Clan Gauss Rifle is 12 tons. Even if 1 ton of ammo were included, where does the extra .5 tons come from?

Looking at the weight for the Mad Dog, removing the extra DHS, keeping 3 tons of ammo, and removing the Gauss Rifles and 1 tons of ammo leaves 27 tons. That leaves weight for two Rail Guns weighing 13.5 tons each.

The Gauss Rifle's damage is also half what it is in BT. Doubling the damage would mean that the Rail Gun should do 40 points of damage.

Scary!

About the reloading. Does the Rail Gun take longer to reload? If we double the Gauss Rifles reloading time that's a 10 second turn. The Rail Gun's would be 15 seconds. So the Rail Gun would fire every other turn. Slower rate of fire but those hit will sure feel it!

So far I'd go with

Tonnage: 13.5
Damage: 40 (Can fire every other turn.)
Ammo: 5 shots per ton
Heat: 0?
Crits: I'd go with at least 7.

I can see why the SLDF would have been experimenting with the Rail Gun. I'd be lighter than the Gauss Rifle and hit a lot harder. The bug is that it doesn't fire as fast. Still, as bugs go, I think it's a minor one. I can see the Rail Gun being put into production.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #17 on:** 03 August 2022, 15:02:45 »

Yeah, I thought there had been a Rail Gun from something like MaximumTech since that is where the other weapons came from when the game was made in '99.

Not sure what I will do to make it a TW rule unit.

RifleMech · « **Reply #18 on:** 03 August 2022, 15:22:26 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 03 August 2022, 15:02:45

Yeah, I thought there had been a Rail Gun from something like MaximumTech since that is where the other weapons came from when the game was made in '99.

Not sure what I will do to make it a TW rule unit.

Not that I can remember. I know they've been talked about but only as ancient weapons. References have one mounted on a Warship and used in around 2014 and Rail Guns being used on Spaceships before Gauss Rifles were invented.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #19 on:** 03 August 2022, 15:25:39 »

Warships have Mass Drivers, but I could not remember Rail Guns specifically.

Luciora · « **Reply #20 on:** 03 August 2022, 15:45:48 »

The .5 is from the double heatsink for the heat. 1 heat dissipation for 1 heat generated.

Quote from: RifleMech on 03 August 2022, 14:59:03

Yeah at 30 tons it isn't going to fit. Not that the weights listed help. The Clan Gauss Rifle is 12 tons. Even if 1 ton of ammo were included, where does the extra .5 tons come from?

Looking at the weight for the Mad Dog, removing the extra DHS, keeping 3 tons of ammo, and removing the Gauss Rifles and 1 tons of ammo leaves 27 tons. That leaves weight for two Rail Guns weighing 13.5 tons each.

The Gauss Rifle's damage is also half what it is in BT. Doubling the damage would mean that the Rail Gun should do 40 points of damage. Scary!

About the reloading. Does the Rail Gun take longer to reload? If we double the Gauss Rifles reloading time that's a 10 second turn. The Rail Gun's would be 15 seconds. So the Rail Gun would fire every other turn. Slower rate of fire but those hit will sure feel it!

So far I'd go with

Tonnage: 13.5
Damage: 40 (Can fire every other turn.)
Ammo: 5 shots per ton
Heat: 0?
Crits: I'd go with at least 7.

I can see why the SLDF would have been experimenting with the Rail Gun. I'd be lighter than the Gauss Rifle and hit a lot harder. The bug is that it doesn't fire as fast. Still, as bugs go, I think it's a minor one. I can see the Rail Gun being put into production.

RifleMech · « **Reply #21 on:** 03 August 2022, 17:06:19 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 03 August 2022, 15:25:39

Warships have Mass Drivers, but I could not remember Rail Guns specifically.

Rail Guns have never had rules or stats. Just the occasional references. I wish they did have rules and stats.

Quote from: Luciora on 03 August 2022, 15:45:48

The .5 is from the double heatsink for the heat. 1 heat dissipation for 1 heat generated.

Ah! Thank you.

That makes more sense now. Going with that and 16 shots for 7.5 each evens out to 8 15 point shots. That would put the Rail Gun at 7.5 shots per ton, rounding down to 7. Still I don't think we can get the Rail Gun any closer than this.

Keeping the 2 tons of ammo per gun and removing the extra DHS, I get
Tonnage: 14
Damage: 40 (Can fire every other turn.)
Ammo: 7 shots per ton
Heat: 1 (could be higher?)
Crits: I'd go with at least 7.

There just isn't the tonnage for a heavier Rail Gun.

Empyrus · « **Reply #22 on:** 04 August 2022, 12:37:28 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 03 August 2022, 17:06:19

Rail Guns have never had rules or stats. Just the occasional references. I wish they did have rules and stats.

I believe one or two vehicles or mechs has had their Gauss rifles described as railguns, so it is possible both coil and railgun technologies fall under "Gauss" terminology in BattleTech universe, just like PPCs vary a bit in their properties (heavy ion beams, proton beams etc.).

RifleMech · « **Reply #23 on:** 04 August 2022, 23:37:06 »

Quote from: Empyrus on 04 August 2022, 12:37:28

I believe one or two vehicles or mechs has had their Gauss rifles described as railguns, so it is possible both coil and railgun technologies fall under "Gauss" terminology in BattleTech universe, just like PPCs vary a bit in their properties (heavy ion beams, proton beams etc.).

If there are, I don't remember reading about them. I'd like to. As far as I can remember there's just the references that on wet navy warships during around 2014 and on spaceships before gauss rifles were created. Era Report 2750 talks about Rail Guns and how Gauss Rifles were developed from them. There's others but that's the most recent one I remember right now.