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Author Topic: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)  (Read 32698 times)

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #810 on: 10 August 2022, 10:46:31 »
Side note, i kept thinking about it (Yes, I'm slow.) In comparison, the Quadvees are technically close cousins with the Bi-Mod Syberian ground "LAM" mechs aren't they?  Except no full mech mode, just half tank/ half quad-ish Mech with turret.

Unless the rules have been tweaked, QuadMechs in quad form act just like quad Mechs, but yes, they are.

I don't think they'd have parity. A more level playing field but not parity.

A lot of that would come down to how the GM wanted to play things. There would likely be a lot of exotic materials and alloys introduced to negate the abilities of various supers--a 'Mech armor and structure that uses non-magnetic composites for its structure and armor to deal with Magnetman; some variation on the Blue Shield tech that offsets electrical super-powers; the odd tac-nuke for the super-supers; lead-alloy-lined helmets and head gear to deal with the psychics; lead-lined everything else for the X-ray vision pervs; strategic nukes for the super-supers who survive tac-nukes or super-speedsters that can outrun the smaller nukes' blast radii; bases deep underground/underwater/in space/inside volcanoes, where most authorities or civilians are loathes to look. You know, all the usual!

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I might give it a try. It could be fun. There's a couple details I'm not sure about though but I'll give them a thought.

If one of those is crit space, I took care of that in my latest revision, about the same point where I deleted the weapon equivalency data.

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Enough toys to play with?  :o   What a silly idea.  ;D :))

After a while, you know, you're just asking your players to carry around an encyclopedia just for the weapons, then spending pages of text defending how you arrived at those stats and/or justifying why such weapons are necessary when about 20 others do the same thing. And I'm looking for a fun game. Odds are, only one of us will be happy there.

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There are other worlds. Maybe one of them has 75 ton Bimpdal LAMs?

Maybe on your table. Maybe even someday on mine. But for right now? ... Ugh! Here's a challenge: Give us a 60-ton and a 100-ton AutoMech Aerofighter conversion using the extant 15% mass for conversion gear. (Put them in a separate thread, though, please!) When done, explain where you may have had trouble, and where you felt it was better. We don't need fluff; just build them.

You've been reading my notes on the Ianus system i see.. going to have to check my computer for backdoors.

Well, I mean, "12345" is a pretty lame password, you have to admit.

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #811 on: 10 August 2022, 13:37:29 »
A lot of that would come down to how the GM wanted to play things. There would likely be a lot of exotic materials and alloys introduced to negate the abilities of various supers--a 'Mech armor and structure that uses non-magnetic composites for its structure and armor to deal with Magnetman; some variation on the Blue Shield tech that offsets electrical super-powers; the odd tac-nuke for the super-supers; lead-alloy-lined helmets and head gear to deal with the psychics; lead-lined everything else for the X-ray vision pervs; strategic nukes for the super-supers who survive tac-nukes or super-speedsters that can outrun the smaller nukes' blast radii; bases deep underground/underwater/in space/inside volcanoes, where most authorities or civilians are loathes to look. You know, all the usual!

Makes sense. And it seems like a lot of work. It might be easier to have rules for creating tech and let the players make their own than to make it all oneself.


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If one of those is crit space, I took care of that in my latest revision, about the same point where I deleted the weapon equivalency data.

I must have missed that one. What is it? 


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After a while, you know, you're just asking your players to carry around an encyclopedia just for the weapons, then spending pages of text defending how you arrived at those stats and/or justifying why such weapons are necessary when about 20 others do the same thing. And I'm looking for a fun game. Odds are, only one of us will be happy there.

That's true. That's why I don't mind Cannons being placed in classes too much. I just figure a high velocity 80mm could do as much as a low velocity 120mm. Not sharing ammo would be an optional thing. Still, I do think there's room for some more toys. Some, do have some stats but they're either not in the core books or they're AToW only. :(


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Maybe on your table. Maybe even someday on mine. But for right now? ... Ugh! Here's a challenge: Give us a 60-ton and a 100-ton AutoMech Aerofighter conversion using the extant 15% mass for conversion gear. (Put them in a separate thread, though, please!) When done, explain where you may have had trouble, and where you felt it was better. We don't need fluff; just build them.

That's cool. I do do that on my table. It was the only way we could make a close to anime VF-1 Valkyrie.

Hmm... I think I can do that. :)

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Well, I mean, "12345" is a pretty lame password, you have to admit.

- Herb

Who told!?

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #812 on: 10 August 2022, 14:13:35 »
Makes sense. And it seems like a lot of work. It might be easier to have rules for creating tech and let the players make their own than to make it all oneself.

...So, you want rules on how to make more rules?

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I must have missed that one. What is it? 

I might not have posted it; I don't quite remember. As side projects go, it was kind of shelved.

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That's true. That's why I don't mind Cannons being placed in classes too much. I just figure a high velocity 80mm could do as much as a low velocity 120mm. Not sharing ammo would be an optional thing. Still, I do think there's room for some more toys. Some, do have some stats but they're either not in the core books or they're AToW only. :(

Meh. I guess that's what Shrapnel's for...

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That's cool. I do do that on my table. It was the only way we could make a close to anime VF-1 Valkyrie.

Why? The Valkyrie is only 14-15 tons!

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Who told!?

You did. It was only glitterboy's code, after all...

- Herb

glitterboy2098

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #813 on: 10 August 2022, 19:02:00 »
That's cool. I do do that on my table. It was the only way we could make a close to anime VF-1 Valkyrie.

Why? The Valkyrie is only 14-15 tons!

and is doable within the canon rules if you handwave the tonnage thing.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/extra-universal-design-derivative-challenge/msg1741483/#msg1741483

regular and 'super' VF-1's, and if you scroll down a bit i tackle the VF-4 as well. (given the limitations of the mechanics, the difference between a -1A, -1J, and -1S would be cosmetic and the model of pulse laser/number of barrels the laser uses.)
« Last Edit: 10 August 2022, 19:06:14 by glitterboy2098 »

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #814 on: 10 August 2022, 20:11:24 »
...So, you want rules on how to make more rules?

Nope. Rules to make custom equipment. It wouldn't do for things to be too munchkiny.  ;D



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I might not have posted it; I don't quite remember. As side projects go, it was kind of shelved.

Bummers.


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Meh. I guess that's what Shrapnel's for...

I thought they just had new infantry weapons.

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Why? The Valkyrie is only 14-15 tons!

The empty weight for the VF-1 is just over 13 tons empty. Fuel, Gun Pod, and Missiles add more weight. Then there's the FAST Packs and Armor Packs, along with upgrades. The Valkyrie's max take off weight with FAST Packs is 72 tons. I rounded up to 75. That gave me room to upgrade them to VF-1X Plus and later variants.

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You did. It was only glitterboy's code, after all...

- Herb


 :yikes:


I posted some superheavy AeroMechs here. I'll post some more heavies and some lights later.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/some-aeromechs-for-syberia/

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #815 on: 11 August 2022, 12:18:03 »
After seeing at least two really good UrbanMech-based amalgamations made to resemble Devastator, I decided to create a Superheavy for his united form as a Syberian class known as the Deconstructor. I think it may also work for any merger team, really.

Deconstructor (Non-Convertible AutoMech)

Summary

As one of just a few super-heavy AutoMechs known to exist on Syberia, the Deconstructor class is nothing short of a titan unto itself. Although other superheavies, like the Fortress class, have also been sighted in the ranks of the two major Syberian power blocs, the Deconstructor is remarkable in that it is a non-convertible design, devoted exclusively to mobile combat. But the really confusing part, to us, is how much this particular model looks less like a single, unified machine, and more like an unholy combination of smaller ’Mechs. The Deconstructor known specifically as "Destroyer," in fact, resembles nothing so much as five UrbanMechs merged into a composite of domed heads, legs, and gun muzzles.

And damn me for saying this, but it pulls that look off gloriously!

Code: [Select]
Type: Deconstructor
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 150

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: Superheavy Endo 15
Conversion Eqpt: None 0
Engine: 300 XL 9.5
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 18 [36] 8
Gyro: Superheavy 6
Cockpit: AutoMech 3
Armor Factor: 456 28.5
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 4 12
Center Torso 45 58
Center Torso (rear) 30
R/L Torso 32 44
R/L Torso (rear) 20
R/L Arms 25 50
R/L Legs 32 64

Fixed Components Location Critical Mass
Endo Steel RT/CT/LT 7 --
2RL/2LL
6 Double Heat Sinks 3LT/3RT 12 --

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Mass
Destroyer Configuration
Long Tom Artillery Cannon RA 8 20
ER Large Laser RA 1 5
Gauss Rifle RT 4 15
Ammo (LTAC) 20 RT 2 4
ER Large Laser CT 1 5
PPC CT (R) 2 7
Gauss Rifle LT 4 15
Ammo (Gauss) 32 LT 2 4
ER Large Laser LA 1 5

[b]Notes:[/b] Features the following Design Quirks: Illegal (Syberian Robotics AI), Difficult to Maintain, Distracting (Massive!), Improved Communications, Improved Sensors, Improved Targeting (All), Multi-Trac, Non-Standard Parts, Oversized, Protected Actuators, Rugged (2), Searchlight
[b]Credit:[/b] Jason Coffey, for the awesome miniature

Have funsies!

- Herb

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #816 on: 12 August 2022, 21:00:18 »
Nope. Rules to make custom equipment. It wouldn't do for things to be too munchkiny.  ;D

Right, so... rules to make rules. The trouble with supers-vs-tech, especially in the way we handled them in Nebula California, is that the rules for super-powers are broadly based and not really balanced in any way. But so are the "rules" for how super-powers work in comics to begin with. Superman can do anything...except see through lead, and somehow rocks from his homeworld make him spontaneously weak like he was allergic to them, as does changing the sun's color to match Krypton's own? I mean, holy cow, how did the Kryptonians live BEFORE they all blew up? Wolverine can respawn as long as a drop of his blood remains and connects to a suitable McGuffin? Green Lantern is stymied by...the color yellow? Weaknesses and boons like these, you can see, are basically random, meaning that making BT tech that works against it requires building in some similarly random solutions. With the D20/PF1 rules, we had a slightly more familiar basis to work from, but while Paul clearly saw BT equipment being just entirely too powerful against magic, the fanfic I see keeps showing magic trouncing BT characters. (FWIW, I think maybe the random EM "noise" generated by fusion reactors and high-grade ECM should make scrying and telepathy ineffective, but not every GM would like to play it that way.)

And since making fuller rules would require an expense in time and resources CGL just wouldn't want to pay for in the name of a gag product, the ultimate onus is on you, the players, and your GMs, to take the samples we gave, and extrapolate them as far as you like.

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I thought they just had new infantry weapons.

Do they? TBH, I've not read a single issue. I just knew they were putting some game stuff in there, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a compilation of core rulebooks for everything...but it's the crunch that moves copies, so more crunch it is!

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The empty weight for the VF-1 is just over 13 tons empty. Fuel, Gun Pod, and Missiles add more weight. Then there's the FAST Packs and Armor Packs, along with upgrades. The Valkyrie's max take off weight with FAST Packs is 72 tons. I rounded up to 75. That gave me room to upgrade them to VF-1X Plus and later variants.

Where did you find that figure? It didn't turn up in my quick searches.

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I posted some superheavy AeroMechs here. I'll post some more heavies and some lights later.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/some-aeromechs-for-syberia/

Saw them. What I noticed was a tendency for slow craft--like, near minimum legal takeoff speeds--with armament not dissimilar to what you could get on the 50-55 ton units already. So, it's like most of that tonnage is just going to armor? I will admit Fright Face looks pretty interesting, but you got that at 60 tons, just a single increment up from 55, while your 100-tonners habitually came in pretty undergunned (though I guess the cargo bays make for great bomb payloads).

I did like your second "Apollo" with the Gas Hog Trait and the MINIMUM fuel capacity. That poor lad might not even make it to the space-atmo interface, but I've not really paid a lot of attention to aerospace rules lately.

So, the question becomes...are the AeroMechs over 55 tons really worth it? How did you feel about the whole exercise?

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #817 on: 12 August 2022, 23:03:05 »
After seeing at least two really good UrbanMech-based amalgamations made to resemble Devastator, I decided to create a Superheavy for his united form as a Syberian class known as the Deconstructor. I think it may also work for any merger team, really.

Deconstructor (Non-Convertible AutoMech)

Summary

As one of just a few super-heavy AutoMechs known to exist on Syberia, the Deconstructor class is nothing short of a titan unto itself. Although other superheavies, like the Fortress class, have also been sighted in the ranks of the two major Syberian power blocs, the Deconstructor is remarkable in that it is a non-convertible design, devoted exclusively to mobile combat. But the really confusing part, to us, is how much this particular model looks less like a single, unified machine, and more like an unholy combination of smaller ’Mechs. The Deconstructor known specifically as "Destroyer," in fact, resembles nothing so much as five UrbanMechs merged into a composite of domed heads, legs, and gun muzzles.

And damn me for saying this, but it pulls that look off gloriously!

Code: [Select]
Type: Deconstructor
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 150

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: Superheavy Endo 15
Conversion Eqpt: None 0
Engine: 300 XL 9.5
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks (Double): 18 [36] 8
Gyro: Superheavy 6
Cockpit: AutoMech 3
Armor Factor: 456 28.5
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 4 12
Center Torso 45 58
Center Torso (rear) 30
R/L Torso 32 44
R/L Torso (rear) 20
R/L Arms 25 50
R/L Legs 32 64

Fixed Components Location Critical Mass
Endo Steel RT/CT/LT 7 --
2RL/2LL
6 Double Heat Sinks 3LT/3RT 12 --

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Mass
Destroyer Configuration
Long Tom Artillery Cannon RA 8 20
ER Large Laser RA 1 5
Gauss Rifle RT 4 15
Ammo (LTAC) 20 RT 2 4
ER Large Laser CT 1 5
PPC CT (R) 2 7
Gauss Rifle LT 4 15
Ammo (Gauss) 32 LT 2 4
ER Large Laser LA 1 5

[b]Notes:[/b] Features the following Design Quirks: Illegal (Syberian Robotics AI), Difficult to Maintain, Distracting (Massive!), Improved Communications, Improved Sensors, Improved Targeting (All), Multi-Trac, Non-Standard Parts, Oversized, Protected Actuators, Rugged (2), Searchlight
[b]Credit:[/b] Jason Coffey, for the awesome miniature

Have funsies!

- Herb

Looks great! I'll have to look up the miniature.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #818 on: 12 August 2022, 23:54:45 »
btw, on the battletech international facebook group, a guy posted pics of his repaints and reposes of some dolalr tree Trandfomer figures that are mech sized. so if you have a dollar tree around and need some seekers, megatron, soundwave, and optimus, they might be useful.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10225590274597576&set=pcb.10225590279797706

pics attached (the seekers were repainted and reposed starscreams. apparently none of the figures have poseability, so he had to do some saw work)
« Last Edit: 12 August 2022, 23:57:51 by glitterboy2098 »

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #819 on: 13 August 2022, 00:09:23 »
Right, so... rules to make rules. The trouble with supers-vs-tech, especially in the way we handled them in Nebula California, is that the rules for super-powers are broadly based and not really balanced in any way. But so are the "rules" for how super-powers work in comics to begin with. Superman can do anything...except see through lead, and somehow rocks from his homeworld make him spontaneously weak like he was allergic to them, as does changing the sun's color to match Krypton's own? I mean, holy cow, how did the Kryptonians live BEFORE they all blew up? Wolverine can respawn as long as a drop of his blood remains and connects to a suitable McGuffin? Green Lantern is stymied by...the color yellow? Weaknesses and boons like these, you can see, are basically random, meaning that making BT tech that works against it requires building in some similarly random solutions. With the D20/PF1 rules, we had a slightly more familiar basis to work from, but while Paul clearly saw BT equipment being just entirely too powerful against magic, the fanfic I see keeps showing magic trouncing BT characters. (FWIW, I think maybe the random EM "noise" generated by fusion reactors and high-grade ECM should make scrying and telepathy ineffective, but not every GM would like to play it that way.)

And since making fuller rules would require an expense in time and resources CGL just wouldn't want to pay for in the name of a gag product, the ultimate onus is on you, the players, and your GMs, to take the samples we gave, and extrapolate them as far as you like.

Makes sense. Led lined Mechs, with yellow spotlights, with anti-magic runes painted on the insides. I don't think tech can be made to cover every specific thing without having lots of specific units. Most I think would try to cover the main areas. That doesn't mean rules to create tech wouldn't be nice. Not that it would just be used against supers. I'd still like to see a streetsweeper Mech and a studio tri-d Mech and so on. Heck, I'd like TW rules for popup camper infantry and rules for the fold out camper in the Marc Exploration Mech. That doesn't mean items fans create should be munchkiny.


Quote
Do they? TBH, I've not read a single issue. I just knew they were putting some game stuff in there, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a compilation of core rulebooks for everything...but it's the crunch that moves copies, so more crunch it is!

I don't know. I haven't either. I don't mind new things being put in new products. It would be nice if those new things would be included in the next edition of a core book. But then they haven't included everything yet so I guess I'll be waiting a while on that. :(




Quote
Where did you find that figure? It didn't turn up in my quick searches.

Several places
https://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-1_Valkyrie
https://www.mahq.net/vf-1a-tv/
http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1s-fastpack.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/vf-1s-strike.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/ve-1-elintseeker-valkyrie.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-gbp.htm


Quote
Saw them. What I noticed was a tendency for slow craft--like, near minimum legal takeoff speeds--with armament not dissimilar to what you could get on the 50-55 ton units already. So, it's like most of that tonnage is just going to armor? I will admit Fright Face looks pretty interesting, but you got that at 60 tons, just a single increment up from 55, while your 100-tonners habitually came in pretty undergunned (though I guess the cargo bays make for great bomb payloads).

Yeah they're slow. I wanted to be close to the image at least. That kind of limited their speed some. Tonnage going places varies. The first Pathfinder has greater firepower at the cost in speed and armor. The second one is more comparable to the 55 tonners. Sky-Jack though is a lot slower than the Seekers but it does have almost twice as much payload as them though. I have most of it as bomb bays but other weapons could be used. It could even be faster if I didn't limit jump jet locations to the legs. Thanks, I thought about making Fang Face heavier but I wasn't sure what equipment to give him. I am thinking about some heavier LAMs though. And yeah, the 100 tonners are kind of under gunned. The cargo bays could be used to carry bombs though. I was also thinking of them as more recon units. Pull out the imagers and a lot of other weapons can be put in their place.

Quote
I did like your second "Apollo" with the Gas Hog Trait and the MINIMUM fuel capacity. That poor lad might not even make it to the space-atmo interface, but I've not really paid a lot of attention to aerospace rules lately.


:) Thanks. I thought that would be fun. I'm not sure if he'll get into space either.  ;D

Quote
So, the question becomes...are the AeroMechs over 55 tons really worth it? How did you feel about the whole exercise?

- Herb

I think so. It's all about balancing speed, armor, and weapons. The Seekers are twice as fast as SkyJack but he has twice the payload. I could reduce the payload for additional speed and armor and still outgun the Seekers. I'll post additional AeroMechs in a bit but I do think heavier AeroMechs are worth it.

As for the exercise. It was fun. I'm surprised at how rust I am at making mechs though. :(




btw, on the battletech international facebook group, a guy posted pics of his repaints and reposes of some dolalr tree Trandfomer figures that are mech sized. so if you have a dollar tree around and need some seekers, megatron, soundwave, and optimus, they might be useful.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10225590274597576&set=pcb.10225590279797706

pics attached (the seekers were repainted and reposed starscreams. apparently none of the figures have poseability, so he had to do some saw work)


They look great. I wish I were better at painting and sawing. I picked up a few just because they were mech sized.  :thumbsup:

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #820 on: 13 August 2022, 06:04:07 »
btw, on the battletech international facebook group, a guy posted pics of his repaints and reposes of some dolalr tree Trandfomer figures that are mech sized. so if you have a dollar tree around and need some seekers, megatron, soundwave, and optimus, they might be useful.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10225590274597576&set=pcb.10225590279797706

pics attached (the seekers were repainted and reposed starscreams. apparently none of the figures have poseability, so he had to do some saw work)

Yeah, that's Daemion's work. He also posted them on the Miniatures board here.

Makes sense. Led lined Mechs, with yellow spotlights, with anti-magic runes painted on the insides. I don't think tech can be made to cover every specific thing without having lots of specific units. Most I think would try to cover the main areas. That doesn't mean rules to create tech wouldn't be nice. Not that it would just be used against supers. I'd still like to see a streetsweeper Mech and a studio tri-d Mech and so on. Heck, I'd like TW rules for popup camper infantry and rules for the fold out camper in the Marc Exploration Mech. That doesn't mean items fans create should be munchkiny.

The ultimate arbiter of munch really comes down to your table and your players. For myself, I consider the supers of the CNAZ to be deriving their powers from the same kind of localized reality bending that gives the fantasy worlds of the CNAZ their "magic." (It is even possible that a wee bit of that magic, or a more diffuse form of it, is happening in the Star Empire systems to give us their Fortune effects, BTW.) Not having made rules for how it all works, though, allows gamers to quite liberally adapt whatever game system/setting they fancy, and with that kind of freedom, there's no way we could establish a unified ruleset for it that meshes seamlessly into the reality of BattleTech's universe as we know it.

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I don't know. I haven't either. I don't mind new things being put in new products. It would be nice if those new things would be included in the next edition of a core book. But then they haven't included everything yet so I guess I'll be waiting a while on that. :(

My point is, as long as it take crunchy new rules and gear to drive book sales, you'll never see a true "here's everything" kind of rulebook.

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Several places
https://macross.anime.net/wiki/VF-1_Valkyrie
https://www.mahq.net/vf-1a-tv/
http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1s-fastpack.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/vf-1s-strike.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossdyrl/ve-1-elintseeker-valkyrie.htm
http://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1j-gbp.htm

*squints* Okay, so the 75-ton mass (and the 100+ ton mass) appear to be related only to the use of the FAST pack and atmo-escape booster system. Those are literally just giant rockets that I think can be/are jettisoned in combat. I'd not count those weights as integral to the unit itself. Take them away and the heaviest they seem to go becomes about 45-50 tons on the BT scale, which is inside the extant rules.

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Yeah they're slow. I wanted to be close to the image at least. That kind of limited their speed some. Tonnage going places varies. The first Pathfinder has greater firepower at the cost in speed and armor. The second one is more comparable to the 55 tonners. Sky-Jack though is a lot slower than the Seekers but it does have almost twice as much payload as them though. I have most of it as bomb bays but other weapons could be used. It could even be faster if I didn't limit jump jet locations to the legs. Thanks, I thought about making Fang Face heavier but I wasn't sure what equipment to give him. I am thinking about some heavier LAMs though. And yeah, the 100 tonners are kind of under gunned. The cargo bays could be used to carry bombs though. I was also thinking of them as more recon units. Pull out the imagers and a lot of other weapons can be put in their place.

I did notice that, yeah.

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I think so. It's all about balancing speed, armor, and weapons. The Seekers are twice as fast as SkyJack but he has twice the payload. I could reduce the payload for additional speed and armor and still outgun the Seekers. I'll post additional AeroMechs in a bit but I do think heavier AeroMechs are worth it.

Maybe it's just that I don't want to change the rules again and have to redo a bunch of "should be bigger" AeroMechs, but I'm not so convinced. It looks increasingly like a diminishing return as we go into the heavy/assault ranges...

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They look great. I wish I were better at painting and sawing. I picked up a few just because they were mech sized.  :thumbsup:

We do have a Dollar Tree or two in my area. Maybe I should go looking.

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #821 on: 14 August 2022, 05:08:57 »
The ultimate arbiter of munch really comes down to your table and your players. For myself, I consider the supers of the CNAZ to be deriving their powers from the same kind of localized reality bending that gives the fantasy worlds of the CNAZ their "magic." (It is even possible that a wee bit of that magic, or a more diffuse form of it, is happening in the Star Empire systems to give us their Fortune effects, BTW.) Not having made rules for how it all works, though, allows gamers to quite liberally adapt whatever game system/setting they fancy, and with that kind of freedom, there's no way we could establish a unified ruleset for it that meshes seamlessly into the reality of BattleTech's universe as we know it.

I get that and I'm glad about it. I do think other things though could be done. Some of which have been talked about here in the forums like making SRM-3 Launchers or AC/6 Cannons and so on. Things like that I think could be done and mesh well enough with regular Battletech.



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My point is, as long as it take crunchy new rules and gear to drive book sales, you'll never see a true "here's everything" kind of rulebook.

I'm not sure that's possible since there's always something new coming out. Still, what's already out could be included with a new edition. The new version of IO added Prototype Improved Jump Jets. Other items could have been added at the same time but weren't for reasons.


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*squints* Okay, so the 75-ton mass (and the 100+ ton mass) appear to be related only to the use of the FAST pack and atmo-escape booster system. Those are literally just giant rockets that I think can be/are jettisoned in combat. I'd not count those weights as integral to the unit itself. Take them away and the heaviest they seem to go becomes about 45-50 tons on the BT scale, which is inside the extant rules.


The escape booster is just a big rocket the FAST Packs are more involved. The regular FAST Packs contain fuel in the legs, missiles in the arms, and thrusters, fuel, and missiles or lasers in the back units. The Elintseeker has additional sensors and com equipment instead of weaponry. They're pretty integrated. They're just jettisonable. Without them the weight does drop a lot but some of that is still the wing mounted missiles and the gun pod, and fuel.   Anyway, if we build the Valkyries lighter then there's no weight to add the FAST Packs or the Armor Packs. It also doesn't leave room for the different variants or upgrades. Some have two seats. The newest one even has a BA cockpit now. Doing things the way we did, the "early" VF-1s are a bit over engineered but they have room to grow. Otherwise, each variant would have to have their own stats from the ground up. The VF-1S is heavier than the VF-1A so it's need different engines, structure and conversion system for each variant. It'd be like each of the Seekers having their own stats because they weigh from 45-70 tons.

 
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I did notice that, yeah.

Maybe it's just that I don't want to change the rules again and have to redo a bunch of "should be bigger" AeroMechs, but I'm not so convinced. It looks increasingly like a diminishing return as we go into the heavy/assault ranges...

The only rule would be no heavy AeroMechs and I don't think you'd have to redo anything. There are some diminishing returns. 65 tons isn't much better than 60 tons but a lot of it still depends on speed, armor and weapons. If you try to make a 60 ton AeroMech as fast as a 50 ton AeroMech, the 60 tonner won't be much better than the lighter AeroMech. If you slow it down some though, the amount of armor and weapons the 60 ton can carry goes up. It's like comparing a Stinger Mech and a Stinger LAM. There's not a lot of difference between the two in Mech Mode. There's a lot of differences between a Stinger LAM and a Phoenix Hawk LAM though. A Champion LAM though isn't much better than a Phoenix Hawk LAM. I'd still use a Champion LAM though. :)

It is up to you though but I think they're worth it.  :thumbsup:



Quote
We do have a Dollar Tree or two in my area. Maybe I should go looking.

- Herb


I think it'd be worth it. As far as I know there's 6 total. Optimus, Bumblebee, and Grimlock, and Megartron, Starscream, and Soundwave. There's probably more that size but you'd have to get them from Japan.
« Last Edit: 14 August 2022, 05:11:23 by RifleMech »

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #822 on: 22 August 2022, 10:14:29 »
Heads up:

I have to finish just two more blurbs, and then  I should be able to post the first portion of the TRO section of my TRO: Syberia. (Model types from A through F.) But I'm tired and have stuff I gotta do first.

- Herb

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #823 on: 22 August 2022, 10:16:53 »
Oh wow!  Thank you for doing this project Herb! 
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"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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Luciora

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #824 on: 22 August 2022, 10:17:03 »
Yay!

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #825 on: 22 August 2022, 10:24:07 »
The escape booster is just a big rocket the FAST Packs are more involved. The regular FAST Packs contain fuel in the legs, missiles in the arms, and thrusters, fuel, and missiles or lasers in the back units. The Elintseeker has additional sensors and com equipment instead of weaponry. They're pretty integrated. They're just jettisonable. Without them the weight does drop a lot but some of that is still the wing mounted missiles and the gun pod, and fuel.   Anyway, if we build the Valkyries lighter then there's no weight to add the FAST Packs or the Armor Packs. It also doesn't leave room for the different variants or upgrades. Some have two seats. The newest one even has a BA cockpit now. Doing things the way we did, the "early" VF-1s are a bit over engineered but they have room to grow. Otherwise, each variant would have to have their own stats from the ground up. The VF-1S is heavier than the VF-1A so it's need different engines, structure and conversion system for each variant. It'd be like each of the Seekers having their own stats because they weigh from 45-70 tons.
Personally, not get side tracked from the Syberian AutoMechs, the FAST PAC/Boosters could be treated like either as External items that can mount in the Bomb slots normal aerospace fighter has, likely have to eject it ANYWAYS because it can't transform or enter atmosphere.
Since Lams have only Bomb Bays, it would be funky to have them plug into THAT and treat the rocket pack as add-on vehicle of some sort, with armor (fuselage Legs) , fuel, etc  until it gets into mech parts aside from crits.   Quirk could solve the problem, but not many people use them (Quirk: Attachable External Vehicle Pack.) 
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
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HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #826 on: 22 August 2022, 15:06:45 »
Aaaaand...

BAM! Unit models from A (AeroMech) through F (Flybee Ultralight). That's about 30 chassis types, covering 83 named convertible Syberian AutoMechs. (Excluding large naval vessels, mobile structures, and spacecraft, of course.)

If I continue in this vein, the next batch will likely be G through P (28 chassis types) or G through R (32 chassis types), followed by R (or S) through W (for 29-33 chassis types). (There are currently no chassis types beginning with Q, X, Y, or Z.) After which I may toss in a few more entries for the 6 or so non-mobile structure units that I have, in fact, already statted.

- Herb

RifleMech

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #827 on: 22 August 2022, 15:34:32 »
Personally, not get side tracked from the Syberian AutoMechs, the FAST PAC/Boosters could be treated like either as External items that can mount in the Bomb slots normal aerospace fighter has, likely have to eject it ANYWAYS because it can't transform or enter atmosphere.
Since Lams have only Bomb Bays, it would be funky to have them plug into THAT and treat the rocket pack as add-on vehicle of some sort, with armor (fuselage Legs) , fuel, etc  until it gets into mech parts aside from crits.   Quirk could solve the problem, but not many people use them (Quirk: Attachable External Vehicle Pack.)

In a way we did that. We had it so that available slots can mount "external" Jettisonable items. Kind of like how a Hatchet is external but still takes internal crits. The "wing mounted" bomb bays received the open bomb bay quirk since the missiles or bombs are exposed to enemy fire. I'll try to post stats soon.


Aaaaand...

BAM! Unit models from A (AeroMech) through F (Flybee Ultralight). That's about 30 chassis types, covering 83 named convertible Syberian AutoMechs. (Excluding large naval vessels, mobile structures, and spacecraft, of course.)

If I continue in this vein, the next batch will likely be G through P (28 chassis types) or G through R (32 chassis types), followed by R (or S) through W (for 29-33 chassis types). (There are currently no chassis types beginning with Q, X, Y, or Z.) After which I may toss in a few more entries for the 6 or so non-mobile structure units that I have, in fact, already statted.

- Herb


 :rockon: :excited: :smitten:  I've only take a quick look and it looks great so far. I'm looking forward to spending more time looking it over.  >:D :thumbsup:   :beer: :clap: :clap:

Daryk

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #828 on: 22 August 2022, 18:17:28 »
Downloaded for later reading (probably this weekend)... congrats on a finished project good sir!  :thumbsup:

I am Belch II

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #829 on: 22 August 2022, 19:07:30 »
That is some awesome and great product. Reading thru it now!!!!
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HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #830 on: 22 August 2022, 22:11:16 »
Downloaded for later reading (probably this weekend)... congrats on a finished project good sir!  :thumbsup:

Finished? My boy, I am SO FAR from finished with this one!

- Herb

glitterboy2098

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #831 on: 22 August 2022, 22:48:44 »
light PPC's and ER mediums and smalls on the Aeromechs? wasn't aware those were options on syberia. i thought their weaponry was mostly restricted to the Star league era stuff, aside from the melee weapons.

also, wasn't the flybee drone one of mine?
« Last Edit: 22 August 2022, 23:35:45 by glitterboy2098 »

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #832 on: 23 August 2022, 00:19:21 »
light PPC's and ER mediums and smalls on the Aeromechs? wasn't aware those were options on syberia. i thought their weaponry was mostly restricted to the Star league era stuff, aside from the melee weapons.

Someone twisted my arm until I conceded to Star League-plus-any-Inner Sphere-tech-up-to-3060-except-for-C3s. The construction rules section will note that.

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also, wasn't the flybee drone one of mine?

*checks spreadsheet* Yup! Sorry about that; will correct the credit. (You may be happy to know I didn't make that same error on all of your designs.)

- Herb

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #833 on: 23 August 2022, 01:36:53 »
you may also want to list the attribution as "glitterboy2098", instead of just 'glitterboy'. (mostly for accuracy's sake. i could provide my real name instead if you'd prefer)

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #834 on: 23 August 2022, 09:16:36 »
you may also want to list the attribution as "glitterboy2098", instead of just 'glitterboy'. (mostly for accuracy's sake. i could provide my real name instead if you'd prefer)

I've been told that requesting a real name was a faux pas in internetiquette, so for now I've made the 2098 correction. How would you prefer to be credited here? (And remember that this is just a fan work; I'm not gonna be able to sell this to CGL or anything.)

- Herb

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #835 on: 23 August 2022, 11:46:32 »
screename is fine, given this won;t go to print. i just figured i'd offer, since sometimes people doing fan projects liek to make their stuff look like the official stuff, and real names rather than screennames are the typical there.
« Last Edit: 23 August 2022, 13:12:51 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #836 on: 23 August 2022, 14:39:32 »
I'm happy its been made!
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
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grimlock1

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #837 on: 02 September 2022, 07:54:45 »
I've seen the paragraph on rotors for VTOL Automechs a bunch of times.  1 ton, 2 crits, up to running speed, yeah, yeah, reskinned improved jump jets... VTOL mode cruise equals rotors*1.5, yeah, yeah.
I never glomed onto the fact that rotors provide VTOL MP in mech mode!
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #838 on: 02 September 2022, 13:37:53 »
personally i keep looking for whether there is a limit on how many you can mount. as written, rotors are the same weight regardless of your mechs size, and the more you mount the fasteryou go. so there is no reason to ever build a VTOL-Mech lighter than the max size, because the smaller the mech the fewer rotors you can include and the slower it goes.

HABeas2

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Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #839 on: 02 September 2022, 14:41:31 »
personally i keep looking for whether there is a limit on how many you can mount. as written, rotors are the same weight regardless of your mechs size, and the more you mount the fasteryou go. so there is no reason to ever build a VTOL-Mech lighter than the max size, because the smaller the mech the fewer rotors you can include and the slower it goes.

Yeah, the VTOL units are really strapped for variation. Though I think we managed some nevertheless, in the end it comes down to more cosmetic differences and armaments than speed and mass. I *have* tweaked the upper mass limits for AerofighterMechs and VTOLMechs, but not by a terrible lot. There really is, after all, only so much one can do with some things when you're trying to maintain a sense of standards in line with established rules and canon.

That being said....

At present, I'm 4 entries away from completing the second part of the main TRO section (Units G through R). For a fan project, this may be one of my longest slogs, let me tell you!

- Herb