Wookieepedia put AT-ATs at 25m in length, so they definitely fit in one BT hex. We set them up as Superheavies. They're in Welcome to the Nebula California. We even got in the cargo for speeder bikes.
I tried to get to Wookiepedia but got here instead.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Cargo_TransportIt puts the length at 34.90 meters
Count how many WiGE units we have in BT, and in Transformers, and you may notice I have *none* in the entire TRO. WiGEs are just so damned niche that even the Syberians found little to no use for them. If they're nerfed, that simply reinforces their rarity. Plus, in BT, when did the WiGE ever get to be as fast as fighters?
Not many and they don't which is why the question about jump jets not providing as much thrust. Maybe they're turboprops? Do WiGE Mechs follow the same movement rules as WiGEs? If so it costs 5 MP to take off and they have to move forward 5 hexes. That's 10 MP Total. WiGE Mechs would need a minimum of 7 JJ or 4 JR to give them the minimum 7/11 or 8/12 movement to stay airborne.
Nope. The Syberians went straight to Mechs. (The Thorizer had been a failure a good century and a half before they came here, but converting 'Mechs were fresh, new territory to them, and they went all-in there.)
That's cool and makes sense.
Would have been nice but that's okay.
I don't think that Quirk exists, does it? And where are the rules for prop aircraft these days?
It was the example quirk you used in the PDF. TW gives some movement restrictions and TM the construction rules.
Y'know, I know we discussed this someplace, but can you link me what I said back then?
My search foo is working today.
I found these posts way back in the old Nebula California thread. Here's the main parts about it.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/nebula-california-what-a-nice-surprise-bring-your-alibis/msg1052309/#msg1052309https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/nebula-california-what-a-nice-surprise-bring-your-alibis/msg1052906/#msg1052906Honestly, I'd just use the VTOL AutoMech rules if you want the props to actually be functional, or a Fighter AutoMech with a low Jump MP if you want something that works at prop fighter speeds--at which point you can just "fluff" it to say it has turboprop engines in place of its jump jets.
Ah! According to my Total Warfare, the minimum Safe Thrust of 3 is for VERTICAL takeoff. Horizontal liftoff has no such restriction, beyond needing runways. Also of note: Prop-Driven aircraft have a max velocity of 1 on the High Altitude/Space scale maps, and even then can only fly at the Ground and Altitude 1 Rows (so, max altitude for them is basically 35,000 meters). You can build a Fighter AutoMech with only one Jump Jet, fluff it as a propeller aircraft in fighter mode, and have fun puttering over the combat zone.
I thought that was hilarious!
And then she went and made one!
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/syberian-dron-automech-ransak'/msg1054611/#msg1054611 
Would this make him a TriModal FighterMech with an AirMech mode?
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:ROTF_Ransack_BattleMode.JPG https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:ROTFtoy-RansackScout.jpg
Hmm? Maybe an Extendable Wings Quirk instead of being Trimodal? Kind of like the Peculiar Mobility Quirk but available to FighterMechs and WiGE Mechs only. The quirk allows the AutoMechs wings to extend some to act as Partial Wings in Mech Mode? Maybe add the Nimble Jumper Quirk too?
For the purposes of gameplay (and our sanity), it doesn't matter, really. I mean, bear in mind that in order to achieve their speeds, VTOLMechs tend to end up putting rotors in almost every torso location, even though their vee forms typically have just one big rotor and a tail rotor. Since the rules enable them to use such rotors to fly even in Mech form (albeit more slowly), we can just handwave that, however their rotors are actually stored, they can pop out as needed for that feature. (Otherwise, I'd be making special rules for each and every transforming helicopter toy out there, and that is anti-fun.)
Makes sense. It would be challenging to make special rules for everything. Although, I did wonder about location swapping to put Rotors in the arms but I think I'll stick with retractable blades fluffed to look like rotors.
Yeah, because just look at that image again! That's NOT buoyant! Anything allowing for standing on the water, all Jesus-like, would sink unless it was a broader platform, like a 'Mech-scaled surfboard. And Water-ski mobility requires constant high-speed movement to maintain itself, which WOULD be a good place for WiGE AutoMechs... But, again, the Syberians didn't make many WiGEMechs, and I could think of no examples to work from.
It looks like buoyant to me but it also looks like it's moving at flank speed. I'd probably have him move at flank speed or double the piloting modifiers. Otherwise they're going to have to have UMUs or they'd have to sink in Mech Mode and wade ashore. I'm pretty sure sinking would cause damage when they hit bottom.
I know he's supposed to be a starfighter but he kind of looks like a WiGE.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cad_Banehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beriev_VVA-14_in_2010.jpgNah. Otherwise, the various BoatMechs would never be able to transition.
Cool.
Please don't get mad if anything in the possibly-upcoming sequel product (Plenty of Room in the Nebula California) happens to tackle a similar concept. (I wrote it way early this year/late last year, and submitted it months ago. Still don't know if/when it will be published.)
A sequel? Ooooo
Except for their shielding tech, the effectiveness of their "proton torpedoes" (I think), and their super-alarming, super-massive tech and population base, yeah they suck. Also that "Fortune" stuff, which may be another localized magic effect.
Shields and Proton torpedoes are nice. Did you stat out concussion missiles?
Yeah, I meant Tactical Operations, not the long OOP Handbook.
Yup. Though remember that Jump Rocket MPs cannot exceed running MP. You'll see at least one FighterMech in the TRO section that carries Jump Rockets which would otherwise exceed its Run MP. The excess point of MP/thrust is basically "wasted" as a result. Rules is rules!
I kinda thought so.
Are items from Tactical Handbook available?
That's cool. It isn't a big thing but can add a bit of variety.
Might want to include that in the PDF. Jump MP can't exceed Running MP is different from number of JJ/JR can't exceed Running MP. Right now, it looks 4/6/6 / 12/18 using 6 Jump Rockets compared to 4/6/6 / 6/9 using 3 Jump Rockets. Which is an easy mistake to make since 1 Rotor provides 1.5 MP.
Is that a real quirk, or another one I talked about adding and never got around to? (If the latter, let me know where I said it.)
It was the second example you gave in the PDF.
I *think* I may have bent that rule at least once in the TRO, but only in terms of mounting non-weapon items. In all honestly, I would relax the rules if I didn't feel I was opening a floodgate of potential problems there...
And of course you got credit; you helped me refine the rules as I went through them again (and, given the above, may have to remind me if/where/what I said previously that I may have missed.)
Being able to mount non-weapons would be a help to small vehicle drones. Weapons would've been nice but I suppose I could always use the Equivalent Weapon Table in Combat Equipment.
I'm glad I could help and if I can help I'll keep helping.
Yeah, basically, we treated our AT-AT expy as a superheavy Mech, so it stood about 18m tall, while the AT-ST was an ultra-light 12-tonner.
That horizon distance calculator's neat; basically shows that the typical BattleMech sees about three times as far as a foot trooper.
How much would that AT-PT weight? It felt too big for BA but too small for a mech. I suppose it'd be 2 ton BA now. It would be nice if automatic grenade launchers were available to mechs and larger vehicles.
Cool.
That's partly true. The Syberian vehicle conversion gear masses DO allow you to avoid having to mount Tracks as separate items, but it's more of a catch-all system, in that the tracks are just counted as part of the conversion gear's weight. This makes a Syberian TrackedMech's total conversion costs about 25% lighter than those of the QuadVee (plus 1 ton for the Syberian AutoMech cockpits, as QuadVees use 4-ton cockpits.) The savings is even better for Syberian WheeledMechs vs Wheeled QuadVees. And then, yeah, there's the added motive types not seen in conversion forms in the IS. How the Syberians came up with conversion systems superior to the Clans? They had time to perfect the tech before they all managed to die out. And they still force you to pay for jump jets, Rotors, and UMUs, so any units using those end up suffering just a wee bit more.
And no, no tri-modes. That's in the back FAQ, along with what one can do instead to deal with such multimodals.
- Herb
Plus the AutoMechs can be Bipeds. Not that everything about QuadVees is bad. They don't have any restrictions on Engine, Structure, or Armor types. They can be OMNIs and they can continue to move and convert with Gyro damage. The also have a turret in both modes. So it's not all bad. Its more they different evolutionary path. It'd be interesting to see how QuadVees would be if they were available. Even if they're built using IS Tech. I imagine Hover, Float, and Submarine types would be available. Subs would have UMUs for their motive system but I'm not sure about the weight Hover and Floats would be.
Can Tracked and Wheeled AutoMechs be amphibious? I'm sure they can drive along the bottom but I was wondering about the floating on the water. Or would they just mount UMUs and convert to Mech mode to get across?
