Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[HABeas2]

Thermobarics at least should appeal to you, of all people... 

Of course! I wrote all the WMD rules, after all, but for my Syberians... well....

The prototype weapons could be cheap glitchy versions or used by factions who aren't quite as advanced to have full SLDF or 3060 IS Tech.

That's already allowed. Under the Prohibited Tech part of the construction rules:

"Primitive Components: AutoMechs may not mount any primitive core components, such as engines, cockpits, gyros, and the like. Primitive and prototype weapons may be mounted on an AutoMech, however, reflecting flawed or low-resource technologies being produced in Syberia’s older manufacturing centers."

From TH, the Blazer and Glazed armor are good as prototypes of Reactive and Reflective Armors found in TO. Glazed Armor is even mentioned in TO, as is the Prototype Caseless Autocannon. AP Missiles are good against hoards of squishies. The Command Console is ideal for Primitive Command Mechs. I also like to use the Mechanical Jump Boosters as prototypes of the TO version.

If we're talking about the convertible AutoMechs, those armors would be disallowed anyway, as would be the Command Console in any AutoMech type (I'd have a primitive AutoMech brain simply being a heavier brain, with no added bells and whistles, OR an honest-to-Cat ATAC drone system...but having to deal with those command flowcharts would drive me buggy.) Don't have an opinion on the rest, though I would come out with strong caveats about those mechanical boosters if someone put them on a FighterMech and claimed those mechanical boosters generated aerospace thrust (because they don't).

With MT, I still like using the targeting systems as low tech, low cost, alternatives to quirks. I also like the bypass kits. The Critical Space Limits rule is interesting. (I'm thinking of them for IS Protos or Alien Mechs) There's the Additional Crewman Rule. (Found it! ) I like the Snow Mobile Chassis Mod. It's use would be rare but still useful. So are Hot Loaded Missiles.

Meh. But they're not really construction rules, and some of those rules might really handicap your AutoMechs, what with the lighter ones not really having a lot of space in them to begin with. A Snowmobile chassis mode being tossed in as a Quirk could be interesting, but it's worth noting that there's no snow on Syberia, so they'd be meant for one of the few worlds in their system where there is enough of an atmosphere for something *like* snow to happen.

So there's a few things in both these books that I think could have been included in TO or IO. For Syberians, some of these prototypes were introduced before the 3060 cut off date. They could be used on prototype drones. The bypass kits might be something Medical Drones might carry around to repair the wounded enough to get them to a repair bay.

Given that the Salvage Arm is fluffed as having multiple "powered tools" to aid in its work, bypass kits may be one of said tools, so there's that.

As much as I love Blazers, they weren't even prototyped until after the SLDF left... 

They fall into the category of "Inner Sphere pre-3060" though. How/Why the Syberians arrived at them is open to debate.

- Herb

[Daryk]

Part of the fluff did cover the fact that all the Successor States eventually did TRY it, so you could sneak it in that way... 

[RifleMech]

Of course! I wrote all the WMD rules, after all, but for my Syberians... well....

Maybe they have them but can't use them because they're not authorized to use the command keys?

That's already allowed. Under the Prohibited Tech part of the construction rules:

"Primitive Components: AutoMechs may not mount any primitive core components, such as engines, cockpits, gyros, and the like. Primitive and prototype weapons may be mounted on an AutoMech, however, reflecting flawed or low-resource technologies being produced in Syberia’s older manufacturing centers."

Would that include the prototype Clan Tech? The stuff that's not quite as good as IS 3060 tech.

If we're talking about the convertible AutoMechs, those armors would be disallowed anyway, as would be the Command Console in any AutoMech type (I'd have a primitive AutoMech brain simply being a heavier brain, with no added bells and whistles, OR an honest-to-Cat ATAC drone system...but having to deal with those command flowcharts would drive me buggy.) Don't have an opinion on the rest, though I would come out with strong caveats about those mechanical boosters if someone put them on a FighterMech and claimed those mechanical boosters generated aerospace thrust (because they don't).

That's cool. I just wondered about them as a failed experiment. ATAC drone systems would be cool but the flowcharts drive me buggy too. Yeah, that's not something I'd do. I was thinking more on beast mechs to help them blend in.

Meh. But they're not really construction rules, and some of those rules might really handicap your AutoMechs, what with the lighter ones not really having a lot of space in them to begin with. A Snowmobile chassis mode being tossed in as a Quirk could be interesting, but it's worth noting that there's no snow on Syberia, so they'd be meant for one of the few worlds in their system where there is enough of an atmosphere for something *like* snow to happen.

Hadn't thought about using them in AutoMechs but the targeting systems could be used by less advanced factions. The smaller mech chassis I hadn't thought about using here at all. I have been thinking of using them for mechs between 2-9 tons though as kind of a cross between a mech and a protomech. That would be cool. Does something like snow happen on the other planets?

Given that the Salvage Arm is fluffed as having multiple "powered tools" to aid in its work, bypass kits may be one of said tools, so there's that.

I suppose you could fluff it like that.

[HABeas2]

Maybe they have them but can't use them because they're not authorized to use the command keys?

Possible. Or most were used up in the holocaust. It's up to whoever runs your Syberian AutoMech campaigns.

Would that include the prototype Clan Tech? The stuff that's not quite as good as IS 3060 tech.

No.

That's cool. I just wondered about them as a failed experiment. ATAC drone systems would be cool but the flowcharts drive me buggy too. Yeah, that's not something I'd do. I was thinking more on beast mechs to help them blend in.

All props given to the writer who came up with the flowcharts as a way to characterize the AIs AS AIs, but there was a reason I let the Syberian AutoMechs just be run any old way the players wish.  (Indeed, it may be argued that IE is wrong about their sentience, were it not for the few clear examples that they lack free will...)

Hadn't thought about using them in AutoMechs but the targeting systems could be used by less advanced factions. The smaller mech chassis I hadn't thought about using here at all. I have been thinking of using them for mechs between 2-9 tons though as kind of a cross between a mech and a protomech. That would be cool. Does something like snow happen on the other planets?

Snow *might* happen if the planet has an atmosphere and a water/water-like cycle of some kind. The snow could be comprised of other crystalized compounds, is all. If more silicates, we're talking sand, but if it's, say, something like crystalized nitrogen, maybe? Who knows? I wasn't planning on delving too deeply there, and would definitely need to call in Cray to work such things out.

I suppose you could fluff it like that.

And so I have!

Part of the fluff did cover the fact that all the Successor States eventually did TRY it, so you could sneak it in that way... 

Yarp!

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Possible. Or most were used up in the holocaust. It's up to whoever runs your Syberian AutoMech campaigns.

That's cool. 

No.

I would allow them as they wouldn't be "Clan weapons" but the experimental weapons the Syberians used before perfecting full SLDF and IS 3060 tech. And for some factions they were as far as they managed to get before the war ended further advancement.

All props given to the writer who came up with the flowcharts as a way to characterize the AIs AS AIs, but there was a reason I let the Syberian AutoMechs just be run any old way the players wish.  (Indeed, it may be argued that IE is wrong about their sentience, were it not for the few clear examples that they lack free will...)

Agree. They did a good job on them. I'm not opposed to using them in a game. Outside of a game, they're just complicated enough that if I can hand wave what the drones do, I'll do that.

Snow *might* happen if the planet has an atmosphere and a water/water-like cycle of some kind. The snow could be comprised of other crystalized compounds, is all. If more silicates, we're talking sand, but if it's, say, something like crystalized nitrogen, maybe? Who knows? I wasn't planning on delving too deeply there, and would definitely need to call in Cray to work such things out.

If there's ice, I would imagine there could be something like snow. I'd use a lot of handwavium though since those kind of weather patterns are beyond me.

And so I have!

Yarp!

- Herb

Yep but will they have the same effect on the patient?

[HABeas2]

I would allow them as they wouldn't be "Clan weapons" but the experimental weapons the Syberians used before perfecting full SLDF and IS 3060 tech. And for some factions they were as far as they managed to get before the war ended further advancement.

Nope. I see "Clan" in the description, I say "nope."

If there's ice, I would imagine there could be something like snow. I'd use a lot of handwavium though since those kind of weather patterns are beyond me.

That's just it. You still need an atmosphere for there to be snow. Otherwise, it's just ice on the ground, in one big, solid clump

Yep but will they have the same effect on the patient?

If you want it to. I'm not gonna tell you how to play your games.

- Herb

[Wrangler]

Well, I'm not going ask for anymore Herb has done.  He done waaaaaaaaaaay more than anything I could ever dream.   

I'm just been commenting on minor things or asking questions on it.

People can make their own Fan-Source books add-on to what work been made.  With Herb credit to making it and the original one!

[RifleMech]

Nope. I see "Clan" in the description, I say "nope."

That's just it. You still need an atmosphere for there to be snow. Otherwise, it's just ice on the ground, in one big, solid clump

If you want it to. I'm not gonna tell you how to play your games.

- Herb

   I thought you'd say that. Which is why I haven't posted anything using them. To me "clan" is only a location to find their stats.

Snow is just tiny ice so if something impacted and sent ice flying, snow could settle on the ground. I wouldn't want to try to ski on it though.

Thanks. I just have to figure out how many a MedicMech can carry. 

Well, I'm not going ask for anymore Herb has done.  He done waaaaaaaaaaay more than anything I could ever dream.   

I'm just been commenting on minor things or asking questions on it.

People can make their own Fan-Source books add-on to what work been made.  With Herb credit to making it and the original one!

He has and it is much appreciated. And I'm not telling, just saying what I'd do and asking questions. And since I have a question; 

Herb, would it be okay if Tail Sitter FighterMechs had 2 Landing Gear Crits in each side torso and none in the center torso?

[HABeas2]

   I thought you'd say that. Which is why I haven't posted anything using them. To me "clan" is only a location to find their stats.

But to me, that's all it takes to deny their use. :p

Snow is just tiny ice so if something impacted and sent ice flying, snow could settle on the ground. I wouldn't want to try to ski on it though.

Yeah but I don't see that accumulating enough to create snowfield conditions too quickly. But, hey, you go, guy!

Herb, would it be okay if Tail Sitter FighterMechs had 2 Landing Gear Crits in each side torso and none in the center torso?

Hmmmm. You would want to codify that in a custom quirk, though I might argue for putting landing gear in each leg, as they become part of the tail in fighter mode.

- Herb

[Wrangler]

While Syberia itself can make any sort of snow fall, there are other planets / moons out there. 
Not breathable but they do have conditions to allow for snow like conditions. Such as ice spewing from a moon's inner reservoir of water. Heck it doesn't even need to be water, such as methane or other types of liquid like substances.


Remember there a lot of world options for say a ultralight snowmobile mech be cruise around to do harassing attacks or deploying minimechs.

[HABeas2]

While Syberia itself can make any sort of snow fall, there are other planets / moons out there. 
Not breathable but they do have conditions to allow for snow like conditions. Such as ice spewing from a moon's inner reservoir of water. Heck it doesn't even need to be water, such as methane or other types of liquid like substances.

That's exactly what I was thinking. We just need an atmosphere of some kind, and something that can freeze in particulate form and drift back down to become something snow-like.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

For you, Rifleman, I added the following to the Q&A section. Hope you like it:

Q: What about Clan tech?
A: No.

Q: What about prototype Clan tech?
A: Still no.

Q: What if the prototype Clan tech is inferior to Inner Sph—?
A: I said NO! Let it go, man!

Q: …What about stuff from XTR: 1945?
A: Why are you like this?

I am adapting FedComGirl's biplane AutoMech to the TRO. Adjusting it to fit the current rules. Need to look up some fun proxy minis for it, though. Hmmm.... Crimson Skies' A2 Thunderbird looks good. And an Incubus II Mech form...

- Herb

[Luciora]

A bi-plane former?  Now I'm interested in tackling that one ahead of the others in the queue. 

[Wrangler]

I am adapting FedComGirl's biplane AutoMech to the TRO. Adjusting it to fit the current rules. Need to look up some fun proxy minis for it, though. Hmmm.... Crimson Skies' A2 Thunderbird looks good. And an Incubus II Mech form...
- Herb

I like idea of adapting a Crimson Skies plane.  Its sound cool.

[Luciora]

I was looking for an excuse to get another Crimson Skies Mini 

Huh and would pair nicely with Deepdive as a movieverse former from an earlier era. 

I like idea of adapting a Crimson Skies plane.  Its sound cool.

[HABeas2]

I like idea of adapting a Crimson Skies plane.  Its sound cool.

Thanks. I had been tempted to look at them for other units, but this time around, given that we're dealing with a biplane conversion... kind of nowhere else to go and still be in the IWM/CGL orbit.

I was looking for an excuse to get another Crimson Skies Mini 

Huh and would pair nicely with Deepdive as a movieverse former from an earlier era. 

Even CS doesn't offer much for biplanes without some extensive modding. The closest we have are the A2 Thunderbird and the Hughes Devastator (EDIT: And the Pacair Hammerfist). Beyond that, you'd be simply adding an extra top wing--and while I know that would be painfully simple for you, Luc, I also like to think of those who may not like modding so much. (In fact, one variant here may yet use the Devastator.)

- Herb

[Luciora]

It's amusing to think that IWM is the Nebula California 

[HABeas2]

It's amusing to think that IWM is the Nebula California 

If only they did all the minis the region needs.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

RifleMech! Share the attached with FCG, please? It's the "Biplaner" entry I'm putting in the TRO.

I have, however, run into a slight problem.

In the conversion to Syberian rules compliance, he ends up with 2 unused tons. I could up the armor and mobility a bit, but just in case, check to see if she has a preference.

- Herb

[Luciora]

The Devastator is one of my favorites from the PC game, though I usually preferred the Bloodhawk. 

I ended up picking up all the minis that were available for the PC game and painted them all appropriately.  The Fortune Hunters logo is another one of my favorites to use on minis.

[RifleMech]

But to me, that's all it takes to deny their use. :p

Yeah but I don't see that accumulating enough to create snowfield conditions too quickly. But, hey, you go, guy!

Hmmmm. You would want to codify that in a custom quirk, though I might argue for putting landing gear in each leg, as they become part of the tail in fighter mode.

- Herb

Cool

I guess that would work. I was thinking for the Triebflügel. It the side torsos have two landing gear each and then give it the Abnormal Conversion and swap the side torso for legs in Fighter Mode the side torsos would be the tail. But then it is a tripod so that doesn't really pair up but tripods aren't normal anyway.

For you, Rifleman, I added the following to the Q&A section. Hope you like it:

Q: What about Clan tech?
A: No.

Q: What about prototype Clan tech?
A: Still no.

Q: What if the prototype Clan tech is inferior to Inner Sph—?
A: I said NO! Let it go, man!

Q: …What about stuff from XTR: 1945?
A: Why are you like this?

 

Awww...no 1945 tech.  :'(   I suppose Star Empire Tech is a no no too 

I am adapting FedComGirl's biplane AutoMech to the TRO. Adjusting it to fit the current rules. Need to look up some fun proxy minis for it, though. Hmmm.... Crimson Skies' A2 Thunderbird looks good. And an Incubus II Mech form...

- Herb

That sounds cool.

RifleMech! Share the attached with FCG, please? It's the "Biplaner" entry I'm putting in the TRO.

I have, however, run into a slight problem.

In the conversion to Syberian rules compliance, he ends up with 2 unused tons. I could up the armor and mobility a bit, but just in case, check to see if she has a preference.

- Herb

   I'm sure she'll love it. I'' see what she thinks and let you know. 

[HABeas2]

Cool

I guess that would work. I was thinking for the Triebflügel. It the side torsos have two landing gear each and then give it the Abnormal Conversion and swap the side torso for legs in Fighter Mode the side torsos would be the tail. But then it is a tripod so that doesn't really pair up but tripods aren't normal anyway.



 

Awww...no 1945 tech.  :'(   I suppose Star Empire Tech is a no no too 

You're already bending the rules with the tripod fighter conversion; don't let ME stop you...

  I'm sure she'll love it. I'' see what she thinks and let you know. 

Cool.

- Herb

[HABeas2]

Okay, finalized Biplaner specs! Did my best to keep the unit true to its write-up.

Code: [Select]

Type: Biplaner
Technology Base: Syberian (Experimental)
Tonnage: 15

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: 1.5
Conversion Eqpt: Aero 2.5
Engine: 15 0.5
Walking MP: 1
Running MP: 2
Jumping MP: 1
Safe Thrust: 1
Max Thrust: 2
Heat Sinks (Standard): 10 0
Gyro: 1
Cockpit: AutoMech 3
Armor Factor (Commercial): 55 2

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 5 6
Center Torso (rear) 4
R/L Torso 4 5
R/L Torso (rear) 3
R/L Arms 2 4
R/L Legs 3 6

Fixed Components Location Critical Mass
Avionics RT/LT/HD 3 --
Landing Gear RT/CT/LT 3 --
Jump Jet (Turbo-Prop) CT 1 0.5
10 Heat Sinks 5 RT/5 LT 8 --

Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Mass
Bomber Configuration
Bomb Bay (2 ton) RT 2 2
Bomb Bay (2 ton) LT 2 2

Dogfighter Configuration
2 Machine Guns RA 2 1
Ammo (MG) 200 RA 1 1
CASE RT 1 0.5
Recon Camera LT 1 0.5
2 Small Lasers LA 2 1

Switcher Configuration
2 Machine Guns RA 2 1
Ammo (MG) 100 RA 1 0.5
Recon Camera RT 1 0.5
Bomb Bay (1 ton) RT 1 1
Bomb Bay (1 ton) LT 1 1

Zapper Configuration
Light PPC RA 2 3
2 Small Lasers LA 2 1

Notes: Features the following Design Quirks: Illegal (Syberian Robotics AI, Turbo-Prop “Jump Jet”), Atmospheric Flyer, Bad Reputation, Difficult to Maintain, Distracting (Archaic Appearance), Non-Standard Parts, Prop-Flyer, Obsolete (From the Start!)
Credit: FedComGirl for original design and fluff
- Herb

[Daryk]

4 tons of payload on a 15 ton frame is really good! 

[I am Belch II]

4 tons of payload on a 15 ton frame is really good! 

It can get out maneuvered by a Urbanmech.

[Daryk]

Not when it's flying! 

[HABeas2]

4 tons of payload on a 15 ton frame is really good! 

It can get out maneuvered by a Urbanmech.

Not when it's flying! 

Yeah, when it's flying, it can get outmaneuvered by the most ungainly DropShips we have!

- Herb

[Daryk]

Well, vertically at least (for spheroids)... 

[RifleMech]

You're already bending the rules with the tripod fighter conversion; don't let ME stop you...

Cool.

- Herb

 

Sorry I'm replying later. There were issues.  Anyway, FedComGirl, says thank you and that she'd be okay with whatever you decide. She did suggeste primitive prototype lasers because he's old. She also suggested rearranging the Dog Fighter to more balance his attacks.

Weapon     Location      Crits     Tons
Recon Camera RT           1         .5
MG                 RA           1         .5
Ammo 100      RA           1         .5
Small Laser     RA           1         .5
Recon Camera LT            1         .5
MG                 LA           1         .5
Ammo 100      LA           1         .5
Small Laser     LA           1         .5

She also suggested a multi-role fighter with VGLs for light bombing attacks.
Recon Camera RT           1         .5
VGL                RT           1         .5
MG                 RA           1         .5
Small Laser     RA           1         .5
VGL                LT           1          .5
Ammo 100      LT           1          .5
MG                 LA           1         .5
Small Laser     LA           1         .5

She also suggested another bomb for the bomber which you've done.   She also says it's a shame she couldn't make him lighter. She says she got stuck at 10.5 tons.

[truetanker]

Tsk. Tsk.

HERB... 

 

TT