Register Register

Author Topic: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)  (Read 54708 times)

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11216
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #960 on: 27 September 2022, 12:31:20 »
Pretty much. Though some stuff from there did get intergrated over the following decades. Tripods, the Osprey, various lore stuff, etc. But never in exactly the same form.

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #961 on: 27 September 2022, 12:34:02 »
Very true, but canonizing the Sandman without changes sounds like it would have undone that restriction, allowing my Clydesdale Quad OmniMech to ride again! Sixty-ton Trojan Horse BattleMech for the win!

- Herb

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4226
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #962 on: 27 September 2022, 13:18:46 »
What you need is a SAR Quad Battlemech, with 3 slots of emergency equipment divided between the Head and Center torso.  Call it the St Bernard   ;)

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #963 on: 27 September 2022, 13:48:28 »
Suit yourself. The California Nebula is a crossover playground. We just presented each system with a lacking in FTL as a means of keeping franchises separate and "unspoiled." Things get very weird when they mix and match (as we saw in WttNC's opening fic, when Grimdark killed one of the Fellowship.)
 

Oops! :)

They could slow boat into each other.


Quote
As soon as she gives the okay, sure.

She said it was okay.


Quote
I'd have let you get away with the conversion system staying the same mass as normal. Tripods already take the hit on tonnage for their configurations in the increased internal structure and armor mass. The added slots I would keep, yes. That is, if I were to introduce tripod AutoMechs beyond the Emplacement and non-converting ones. I just didn't want to add more complexity to something that we don't really see in our Transformers. That's why the convertible schemes tended to get chassis locked to Biped or Biped/Quad limits. (My War of the Tripods adventure shows some neat tripod 'Mechs that could easily be AutoMech-driven, and fluffed out as a heretofore-undiscovered "alien" faction.)

That'd be cool. It'd give extra tonnage to something else. Those tripods are net and would make for good minimech carriers.  :thumbsup:



Quote
A few things worth note: Cargo space on BattleMechs is not that new a concept, but is generally illegal in standard unit construction, especially in the case of bays for infantry. (And yeah, Wrangler, you'd ideally want an infantry bay for human passengers, because that represents a space in which there's seating, maybe some safety equipment, and gear stowage compartments.) The Syberians would have generally kept any human-transporting capacity to their vehicle AutoMechs, eschewing the conversion capabilities for more comfortable passenger/cargo space. Converting vehicle AutoMechs could also have some space set aside like that, but it would only be considered safe as long as the unit remained in vehicle mode. (After that, Syberian health/life insurance companies probably just wouldn't cover.)

As I indicated earlier in this thread (somewhere), the only reason you aren't seeing civilian/human-passenger units among the AutoMechs of this Syberia TRO is that they've naturally fallen into disuse by the time IE's teams arrived. Covering units such as those would almost certainly require a Syberian version of the Support Vehicle TRO, which would skew toward more vehicle/aerospace AutoMech-driven units than 'Mechs.

I can see passenger areas in Mechs. I can even see quarters being installed in Mechs. If the Marco Exploration Mech can have a fold out two person cabin why wouldn't a Uni Cargo Mech be converted into an RV?  I don't think many such mechs would still exist though with everything being converted to a war use. It might be nice to have rules for that as a last remaining example or to play around before the Syberians were killed and left. 

Does anyone remember the movie Robot Wars?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Wars_(film) The Scorpion Mech carried passengers on tours. There could be SafariMechs carrying passengers with portals/windows though their faux flesh, to study all the native flora and fauna.



Quote
(I know nothing of this Sandman LAM. Was that an official design someplace?)

It used to be. It's in Battletechnology: The Early Years. Here's a thread about it. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/another-official-lam/msg1857870/#msg1857870    According to the fluff it was a a custom made rescue LAM that mounted rescue pods. Each weighed .5 tons, took 1 critical slot, and could carry 2 passengers. They were mounted in the arms and the passengers shook up when they were rescued but they should be safer in a torso.  Another company liked it so much that they licensed their own variant.

I forget where, but there was also a rule about extra crew/passengers weighing .5 tons each. Between single seat, dual seat and 10 for a infantry compartment there could be different passenger classes. Actually, you can have 13 passenger seats (75kg each) per ton. They're not carrying gear so you can get more people in, maybe. The princess might have brought her matched luggage with industrial sized hairdryer.  :D


Quote
They can; it's just not as safe or comfortable. That wouldn't stop a Syberian AutoMech from putting their smaller drones in the same space, though. That's how we get our deployer units, after all.

- Herb


Yeah. Although when converted to vehicle mode, it'd be easier for infantry to load and deploy without boarding ramps, ladders, or ziplines.
« Last Edit: 27 September 2022, 14:01:59 by RifleMech »

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #964 on: 27 September 2022, 14:05:37 »
Funny. Who was the LD back then? Because I was told waaaaaaay back when I started, by Bryan Nystul, that infantry bays on a BattleMech were verbotten. (Because I tried to make a quadruped APC called the Clydesdale for Clan Hell's Horses.)

- Herb
Very true, but canonizing the Sandman without changes sounds like it would have undone that restriction, allowing my Clydesdale Quad OmniMech to ride again! Sixty-ton Trojan Horse BattleMech for the win!

- Herb

That'd be a fun Mech for XTRO:Boondoggles; The Clan Edition!  ;D  The early Fire Moth could be included too for carrying infantry in arm pods.

I don't know that you'd be canonizing the Sandman LAM but the door to Mechs carrying infantry was opened with Clan LAMs carrying a passenger. That was followed by TRO:3050U's fluff for the Fire Moth and then your Tripods in War of the Tripods carrying battle armor.  I don't think Syberian AutoMechs carrying passengers would cause a problem. Besides, there is the Illegal Quirk.  ^-^


 
What you need is a SAR Quad Battlemech, with 3 slots of emergency equipment divided between the Head and Center torso.  Call it the St Bernard   ;)


 :D

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #965 on: 27 September 2022, 16:09:36 »
What you need is a SAR Quad Battlemech, with 3 slots of emergency equipment divided between the Head and Center torso.  Call it the St Bernard   ;)

Get on that, IW! (Would that be a BattleMech or an IndyMech? I know BT has at least one emergency rescue Mech.)

Oops! :)

Grimdark SAID it was sorry!

Quote
They could slow boat into each other.

That's basically how Grimmy made it to Toreel, at least.

Quote
She said it was okay.

That was quick! (I half expected a "no". Not sure if she'd be mad at me or something.)

Quote
That'd be cool. It'd give extra tonnage to something else. Those tripods are net and would make for good minimech carriers.  :thumbsup:

At least one of my WotT Tripods did that, I think. (Although, in their case, they were bona fide battlesuited troops.)

Quote
I can see passenger areas in Mechs. I can even see quarters being installed in Mechs. If the Marco Exploration Mech can have a fold out two person cabin why wouldn't a Uni Cargo Mech be converted into an RV?  I don't think many such mechs would still exist though with everything being converted to a war use. It might be nice to have rules for that as a last remaining example or to play around before the Syberians were killed and left. 

I'd leave that to you guys, or a random bunch of "pre-holocaust" Syberian machines that didn't survive to modern times, but were built to ferry humans and such. Some might be commercial/industrial precursors to the AutoMechs of today, even.

Quote
Does anyone remember the movie Robot Wars?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_Wars_(film) The Scorpion Mech carried passengers on tours. There could be SafariMechs carrying passengers with portals/windows though their faux flesh, to study all the native flora and fauna.

Probably something the AxiMaL and PresiDom factions might have had, maybe.

Quote
I forget where, but there was also a rule about extra crew/passengers weighing .5 tons each. Between single seat, dual seat and 10 for a infantry compartment there could be different passenger classes. Actually, you can have 13 passenger seats (75kg each) per ton. They're not carrying gear so you can get more people in, maybe. The princess might have brought her matched luggage with industrial sized hairdryer.  :D

Dunno where that might have been in canon rules.

Quote
Yeah. Although when converted to vehicle mode, it'd be easier for infantry to load and deploy without boarding ramps, ladders, or ziplines.

Right. My thinking is that it would be just like how the Transformers handled things, where they arrive on the scene in vehicle mode, wait for the fleshlings to get out, and go robot mode only then. (As opposed to the one or two GoBots eps where they could hold humans inside them the whole time.

That'd be a fun Mech for XTRO:Boondoggles; The Clan Edition!  ;D  The early Fire Moth could be included too for carrying infantry in arm pods.

Someone else would likely want to tackle that one. (I *did* think it could get the multi-volume treatment of the Primitives XTRs, but then I lost any say in the matter.) Honestly, after writing, editing, illustrating, and laying out an ENTIRE 220-page TRO more or less solo--credit where it's due to those of you who assisted with your own designs, minis, and various forms of input--I'm kinda burned out on TROs for the time being.

Quote
I don't know that you'd be canonizing the Sandman LAM but the door to Mechs carrying infantry was opened with Clan LAMs carrying a passenger. That was followed by TRO:3050U's fluff for the Fire Moth and then your Tripods in War of the Tripods carrying battle armor.  I don't think Syberian AutoMechs carrying passengers would cause a problem. Besides, there is the Illegal Quirk.  ^-^

Understand that I'm not canonizing anything. I'm just seeing what WAS canon, which the Sandman apparently wasn't. War of the Tripods was also considered non-canon (Halloween Gag), even though it was meant to be canon-compatible, like so many of my fun projects.

[SPECIAL REMINDER TO ALL: Aside from Necromo Nightmare, XTR: 1945 (sort of), and XTR: Royal Fantasy (maybe?), all April 1 and Halloween gag projects written or developed by me are officially considered non-canon, BUT were specially made to be "canon-compatible" as much as possible, so they could be seamlessly integrated into an otherwise above-board campaign. This also applies to my "fan-made" stuff, such as the Reign of the Tetakuni adventure and this Syberia TRO.]


Also, the Illegal Quirk's drawback is right in its name: Illegal. This means that the unit violates extant game rules in some way and thus cannot be canonized as a working game element. At least, not for very long.

- Herb
« Last Edit: 27 September 2022, 17:55:30 by HABeas2 »

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #966 on: 27 September 2022, 17:14:18 »
[quote author=HABeas2 link=topic=76748.msg1869609#msg1869609
Grimdark SAID it was sorry!

That's basically how Grimmy made it to Toreel, at least.

Yep ;D

Cool

Quote
That was quick! (I half expected a "no". Not sure if she'd be mad at me or something.)

She wasn't mad at you that I know of. She was surprised you remembered her.



Quote
At least one of my WotT Tripods did that, I think. (Although, in their case, they were bona fide battlesuited troops.)

I'm sure at least one did. :)


Quote
I'd leave that to you guys, or a random bunch of "pre-holocaust" Syberian machines that didn't survive to modern times, but were built to ferry humans and such. Some might be commercial/industrial precursors to the AutoMechs of today, even.

Probably something the AxiMaL and PresiDom factions might have had, maybe.

Sounds good.

That's what I was thinking. That way scientists can observe up close and tourists can get a thrill. There could be other uses too.

Quote
Dunno where that might have been in canon rules.

I don't either. It was before TW though.

Quote
Right. My thinking is that it would be just like how the Transformers handled things, where they arrive on the scene in vehicle mode, wait for the fleshlings to get out, and go robot mode only then. (As opposed to the one or two GoBots eps where they could hold humans inside them the whole time.

Wasn't there an episode or two where one of the Decepticon Jets carried someone in their cockpit in both modes?  Quads, and Tripods, might be okay carrying passengers while converting between modes. Their torsos would change position so the ride would get rougher but that'd be part of the attraction. Drive up to a river, convert and wade in to look at all the fishies. For passengers in a converting Biped, I think it'd have to be like a Ferris wheel ride. The seat rotates as the Mech converts. Otherwise they'd end up laying down while the drone is in Mech Mode.



Quote
Understand that I'm not canonizing anything. I'm just seeing what WAS canon, which the Sandman apparently wasn't. War of the Tripods was also considered non-canon (Halloween Gag), even though it was meant to be canon-compatible, like so many of my fun projects.

I believe it used to be but that was changed a really long time ago. It'd be nice if more things from it were brought back into canon.

Quote
[SPECIAL REMINDER TO ALL: Aside from Necromo Nightmare, XTR: 1945 (sort of), and XTR: Royal Fantasy (maybe?), all April 1 and Halloween gag projects written or developed by me are officially considered non-canon, BUT were specially made to be "canon-compatible" as much as possible, so they could be seamlessly integrated into an otherwise above-board campaign. This also applies to my "fan-made" stuff, such as the Reign of the Tetakuni adventure and this Syberia TRO.]


Also, the Illegal Quirk's drawback is right in its name: Illegal. This means that the unit violates extant game rules in some way and thus cannot be canonized as a working game element. At least, not for very long.

- Herb


I know. I didn't think you were trying to make them canon. It'd be great if they were though. They're very cool and work great with the rest of BT.  :thumbsup:

True. The unit does violate the rules. That doesn't mean the unit can't exist though. I think it's also a way to include something that TPTB don't want to bother with. Like the original version of the Fire Moth and Clan LAMs.
« Last Edit: 27 September 2022, 19:02:57 by RifleMech »

I am Belch II

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9258
  • It's a gator with a nuke, whats the problem.
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #967 on: 27 September 2022, 18:39:14 »
This whole board and your great book, makes me wish there wear more scaled Transformers so I can play them in Battletech.
Walking the fine line between sarcasm and being a smart-ass

601 Battlemechs
503 Warships

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 30536
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #968 on: 27 September 2022, 18:50:28 »
I recall BattleTechnology being canon for a time... Granted, that time is long past now.  :-\

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #969 on: 27 September 2022, 19:06:10 »
This whole board and your great book, makes me wish there wear more scaled Transformers so I can play them in Battletech.

Me too. I hope Jada will make additional series of Transformers minifigs. Wish Micro Machines were still available too. They'd be a good fit with the Mechs.


I recall BattleTechnology being canon for a time... Granted, that time is long past now.  :-\

That's how I remember it.

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4792
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #970 on: 27 September 2022, 19:32:06 »
With the exception of Rajah, I have minis for all of XTRO:Royal Fantasy  ;D ;D

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #971 on: 28 September 2022, 02:06:07 »
She wasn't mad at you that I know of. She was surprised you remembered her.

I have a rather impressive memory....sometimes. Decades of grudge-holding against companies and old classmates, you know. ;)

Quote
I'm sure at least one did. :)

Yup. The "Harvester" has some 24 tons or cargo space, and I think I had the fluff suggesting the Lift Hoists were being used to fill and empty them, mimicking the tentacles of the various Martian machines.

Quote
Wasn't there an episode or two where one of the Decepticon Jets carried someone in their cockpit in both modes?

I can't recall one. The closest I remember them coming is picking up a human, starting to transform, and tossing the human briefly into the air so they can then "catch" them in their cockpit/cabin sections. Starscream did that with Dr. Arkeville, Hot Rod with Daniel. Even in the live-action films, Bumblebee was shown tossing Sam out as part of his transformation, transforming to bot mode, then tossing him/catching him as he transformed back....in super slo-mo.

Quote
I believe it used to be but that was changed a really long time ago. It'd be nice if more things from it were brought back into canon.

I wouldn't really no. That depends on some writer/dev being okay with it, which may venture into legal territory as well, given the source. Old copyrights, fractured licenses and whatnot.

Quote
True. The unit does violate the rules. That doesn't mean the unit can't exist though. I think it's also a way to include something that TPTB don't want to bother with. Like the original version of the Fire Moth and Clan LAMs.

It's more a matter of the Illegal/Non-Functional Item Quirks reflecting in-universe attempts to get around known rules limitations, thereby explaining WHY they're illegal. The Scorpion and Champion LAM projects, for instance, explain why, in universe, these things just didn't work, while providing stats as they would have been otherwise. (The old "looks good on paper; fails utterly in practice" routine.)

I recall BattleTechnology being canon for a time... Granted, that time is long past now.  :-\

Necessary. As a source few authors have access to in their entirety, with a liberal mix of articles in varying degrees of quality, it would take a fresh run of review and playtest to canonize what was in those mags.

With the exception of Rajah, I have minis for all of XTRO:Royal Fantasy  ;D ;D

I know, and they were glorious! Makes me glad I followed up on that project, after I brainstormed it on the spot the prior GenCon.

- Herb

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #972 on: 28 September 2022, 04:26:55 »
I have a rather impressive memory....sometimes. Decades of grudge-holding against companies and old classmates, you know. ;)

I can understand that. I've got a few myself.


Quote
Yup. The "Harvester" has some 24 tons or cargo space, and I think I had the fluff suggesting the Lift Hoists were being used to fill and empty them, mimicking the tentacles of the various Martian machines.

Sounds familiar. :)


Quote
I can't recall one. The closest I remember them coming is picking up a human, starting to transform, and tossing the human briefly into the air so they can then "catch" them in their cockpit/cabin sections. Starscream did that with Dr. Arkeville, Hot Rod with Daniel. Even in the live-action films, Bumblebee was shown tossing Sam out as part of his transformation, transforming to bot mode, then tossing him/catching him as he transformed back....in super slo-mo.

I remember those but I thought there was more. I could be wrong though. It's been a long time since I got to watch Transformers. :(


Quote
I wouldn't really no. That depends on some writer/dev being okay with it, which may venture into legal territory as well, given the source. Old copyrights, fractured licenses and whatnot.

Since other things have made their way into canon I don't think licenses and copyrights is that much of a problem.

Quote
It's more a matter of the Illegal/Non-Functional Item Quirks reflecting in-universe attempts to get around known rules limitations, thereby explaining WHY they're illegal. The Scorpion and Champion LAM projects, for instance, explain why, in universe, these things just didn't work, while providing stats as they would have been otherwise. (The old "looks good on paper; fails utterly in practice" routine.)


I totally get the old routine. In some cases though it works in universe. It's just a bad idea. Like mounting an AC/5, mostly, in the center torso. It worked. It was just easily disabled. There's also the Marco's collapsible two man cabin. It worked but I doubt we'll ever get rules for it. There's a few instances where the fluff allows things the rules wouldn't. And a few where changes in the rules make them no longer legal. The Scorpion and Champion LAMs, would be legal under older rules.    ^-^ They may not be a great idea but they'd of been legal. I think the rules are more a set of in universe standards. Most abide by them but we do have Fractional Accounting and FrankenMechs. Which along with the quirks are as far as I think TPTB want to go.


Quote
Necessary. As a source few authors have access to in their entirety, with a liberal mix of articles in varying degrees of quality, it would take a fresh run of review and playtest to canonize what was in those mags.


Catalyst doesn't have a copy of them?


Quote
Someone else would likely want to tackle that one. (I *did* think it could get the multi-volume treatment of the Primitives XTRs, but then I lost any say in the matter.) Honestly, after writing, editing, illustrating, and laying out an ENTIRE 220-page TRO more or less solo--credit where it's due to those of you who assisted with your own designs, minis, and various forms of input--I'm kinda burned out on TROs for the time being.

(Missed this earlier. Don't know how.  :-[ )

Being burned out is totally understandable. You did put in a lot of work on this. Great work though, and much appreciated. :thumbsup: A series of Boondoggles would be really great though. The Sandman, or something similar, and Clan LAMs would be great for them. As could the Marco with cabin, and infantry carrying Mechs. Maybe one day.  :)

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 23164
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #973 on: 28 September 2022, 05:45:29 »
Sandman is from Battletechnology.  Its essentially modified / one-off Phoenix Hawk LAM with no weapons with it's large laser (gun) a very claustrophobia cylinder which it MechWarrior/Pilot uses to load people their rescuing from prisons or from captures.  The person knows he coming, because usually a device is sent a head of time to the rescuee with recording of Metallica's Enter the Sandman.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4226
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #974 on: 28 September 2022, 06:38:41 »
Get on that, IW! (Would that be a BattleMech or an IndyMech? I know BT has at least one emergency rescue Mech.)

- Herb

Consider it done:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/st-bernard-25-ton-quad-rescue-industrialmech/

Went with IndustrialMech to reflect its civilian purposes.  A Combat Mech would have likely been retrofitted with weapons and lost in combat (though the free Environmental Sealing was nice).

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 23164
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #975 on: 28 September 2022, 08:33:58 »
You should make a variant as a salvage mech given the nature of the Automechs.  Since everyone well..dead.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4226
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #976 on: 28 September 2022, 10:02:06 »
You should make a variant as a salvage mech given the nature of the Automechs.  Since everyone well..dead.

I'd need a 30-tonner to fit a Salvage Arm in, and according to MML 0.48.0 Salvage Arms can't be placed in torso locations or legs.  Since this is a quad, it only has torso locations and legs.

A Lift Hoist did fit, but in order to fit the AutoMech transformation equipment I'd need to remove the Environmental Sealing on the IndustrialMech.

If I used a standard Mech, I could fit it into 25 tons, 5/8/3, 4.5 tons standard armor, a Recon Camera, a Searchlight, a Lift Hoist, with 3.5 tons and 22 crits left over.  That is the best version of an AutoMech rescue Mech I can make that is small.

As a 50-ton Standard Mech, I can get 5/8/3, 11.5 tons standard armor, a Recon Camera, a Searchlight, a Lift Hoist, with 10 tons and 27 crits left over.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 23164
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #977 on: 28 September 2022, 10:56:45 »
I'd need a 30-tonner to fit a Salvage Arm in, and according to MML 0.48.0 Salvage Arms can't be placed in torso locations or legs.  Since this is a quad, it only has torso locations and legs.

A Lift Hoist did fit, but in order to fit the AutoMech transformation equipment I'd need to remove the Environmental Sealing on the IndustrialMech.

If I used a standard Mech, I could fit it into 25 tons, 5/8/3, 4.5 tons standard armor, a Recon Camera, a Searchlight, a Lift Hoist, with 3.5 tons and 22 crits left over.  That is the best version of an AutoMech rescue Mech I can make that is small.

As a 50-ton Standard Mech, I can get 5/8/3, 11.5 tons standard armor, a Recon Camera, a Searchlight, a Lift Hoist, with 10 tons and 27 crits left over.
Technically Speaking, Salvage Arms have no function really.  I know their suppose to , but rules wise they don't.  It's one those glaring gaps in the rules that as far I can tell from old MechManuel onward, never fixed.   It should be able to act as second pair of arms, with properly bonus to gripping or doing repair work with hand tools etc.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #978 on: 28 September 2022, 11:12:20 »
I remember those but I thought there was more. I could be wrong though. It's been a long time since I got to watch Transformers. :(

That's all I can readily recall. Meanwhile, I know some of the Renegades GoBots held people inside them as hostages/human shields.

Quote
Since other things have made their way into canon I don't think licenses and copyrights is that much of a problem.

*shrug*
 
Quote
I totally get the old routine. In some cases though it works in universe. It's just a bad idea. Like mounting an AC/5, mostly, in the center torso. It worked. It was just easily disabled. There's also the Marco's collapsible two man cabin. It worked but I doubt we'll ever get rules for it. There's a few instances where the fluff allows things the rules wouldn't. And a few where changes in the rules make them no longer legal. The Scorpion and Champion LAMs, would be legal under older rules.    ^-^ They may not be a great idea but they'd of been legal. I think the rules are more a set of in universe standards. Most abide by them but we do have Fractional Accounting and FrankenMechs. Which along with the quirks are as far as I think TPTB want to go.

The two-man cabin on the Marco, I think, was a reference to its cargo bay, and likely could have been ruled as a field tent or pop-up camper, or something like that, which fit inside. So that would have kept the Marco legal. 

Quote
Catalyst doesn't have a copy of them?

*shrug*

Quote
Being burned out is totally understandable. You did put in a lot of work on this. Great work though, and much appreciated. :thumbsup: A series of Boondoggles would be really great though. The Sandman, or something similar, and Clan LAMs would be great for them. As could the Marco with cabin, and infantry carrying Mechs. Maybe one day.  :)

Maybe.

Sandman is from Battletechnology.  Its essentially modified / one-off Phoenix Hawk LAM with no weapons with it's large laser (gun) a very claustrophobia cylinder which it MechWarrior/Pilot uses to load people their rescuing from prisons or from captures.  The person knows he coming, because usually a device is sent a head of time to the rescuee with recording of Metallica's Enter the Sandman.

...Was that really in its fluff?

Consider it done:...
Went with IndustrialMech to reflect its civilian purposes.  A Combat Mech would have likely been retrofitted with weapons and lost in combat (though the free Environmental Sealing was nice).

Good job! I was expecting cargo space for evacuees, given how this side trip started, but great job. Yeah, it's likely the only Syberian RescueMechs that survived to date would have been those that were easily upgraded to salvage duty. DoctorMechs to the rescue!

You should make a variant as a salvage mech given the nature of the Automechs.  Since everyone well..dead.

A number of those found in my TRO are exactly those.

I'd need a 30-tonner to fit a Salvage Arm in, and according to MML 0.48.0 Salvage Arms can't be placed in torso locations or legs.  Since this is a quad, it only has torso locations and legs.

Yeah, Salvage Arms on 'Mechs replace hand actuators only.

Quote
A Lift Hoist did fit, but in order to fit the AutoMech transformation equipment I'd need to remove the Environmental Sealing on the IndustrialMech.

Good thing for the Syberians that they fixed that problem, eh? What would you have it turn into? Because then you might have to give up the TSM...

Technically Speaking, Salvage Arms have no function really.  I know their suppose to , but rules wise they don't.  It's one those glaring gaps in the rules that as far I can tell from old MechManuel onward, never fixed.   It should be able to act as second pair of arms, with properly bonus to gripping or doing repair work with hand tools etc.

To the AutoMechs of Syberia, they're surgeon's hands.

-Herb

Taron Storm

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 581
  • Founding Member of Chaos Inc Merc Brigade
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #979 on: 28 September 2022, 15:44:49 »

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #980 on: 28 September 2022, 18:31:45 »
That's all I can readily recall. Meanwhile, I know some of the Renegades GoBots held people inside them as hostages/human shields.

*shrug*

I can't either. It's been even longer since I watched that.

 
Quote
The two-man cabin on the Marco, I think, was a reference to its cargo bay, and likely could have been ruled as a field tent or pop-up camper, or something like that, which fit inside. So that would have kept the Marco legal. 

*shrug*

If it was just a tent and camping equipment carried in the cargo bay that'd be fine but why make that a standard feature? The text says its "a two-man cabin, a collapsible rear torso unit only usable when the Marco was stationary."  To me it sounds similar to the Collapsible Command Module.

AToW does have a pop-up camper weighing .5 tons for 6 people that can be expanded. It can't be used in TW though.  :-\   I just apply the rules for that to the Marco's cabin. I doubt we'll get anything official. It's peace tech. I can see military uses though.



Quote
Maybe.

...Was that really in its fluff?

I'll be hoping. :)

The first Sandman was based on the Stinger LAM and the pilot played a song to let the scientist and his family know he was there to pick them up. It was kind of small for the job though. Two of the kids had to squeeze into one pod and there were injuries to other family members. (I wonder if the pods being mounted in the arms had some roll in that.)  So Snord's Irregulars licensed the idea and built a larger one based on the Phoenix Hawk LAM. The fluff ends saying that if you see a Stinger LAM or Phoenix Hawk LAM playing that song to keep an eye on your prisoners.


Are Reinforced Structure and Ram Plates available? Reinforced Structure weighs twice as much, doesn't take any added crits and was prototyped in 3057. The Ram Plate won't be introduced until a century later but it is a melee weapon for quads. It also requires the Reinforced Structure.  I just wondered as the Ram Plate popped in my head and it'd be a good fit for a BeastMech.


HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #982 on: 28 September 2022, 21:53:16 »
If it was just a tent and camping equipment carried in the cargo bay that'd be fine but why make that a standard feature? The text says its "a two-man cabin, a collapsible rear torso unit only usable when the Marco was stationary."  To me it sounds similar to the Collapsible Command Module.

AToW does have a pop-up camper weighing .5 tons for 6 people that can be expanded. It can't be used in TW though.  :-\   I just apply the rules for that to the Marco's cabin. I doubt we'll get anything official. It's peace tech. I can see military uses though.

Meh. Even a pop-up is too spacious for what it says the Marco's does. So, who knows? And ultimately, who cares?

Quote
The first Sandman was based on the Stinger LAM and the pilot played a song to let the scientist and his family know he was there to pick them up. It was kind of small for the job though. Two of the kids had to squeeze into one pod and there were injuries to other family members. (I wonder if the pods being mounted in the arms had some roll in that.)  So Snord's Irregulars licensed the idea and built a larger one based on the Phoenix Hawk LAM. The fluff ends saying that if you see a Stinger LAM or Phoenix Hawk LAM playing that song to keep an eye on your prisoners.

Talk about telegraphing your moves!

Quote
Are Reinforced Structure and Ram Plates available? Reinforced Structure weighs twice as much, doesn't take any added crits and was prototyped in 3057. The Ram Plate won't be introduced until a century later but it is a melee weapon for quads. It also requires the Reinforced Structure.  I just wondered as the Ram Plate popped in my head and it'd be a good fit for a BeastMech.

As the rules are written, Reinforced Structure is possible, as it is an item featured in TechManual and TacOps pre-3060. But the Ram Plate, unless it has shown up in either, would be out. Unfortunately, as the Ram Plate is a weapon system that requires mounting in multiple hit locations, would be disallowed on a convertible AutoMech. A non-converting quad with a Reinforced Structure would be possible--but only if the Ram Plate has made it into the TM/TO books.

As I am okay with those conditionals, I think I shall leave that ruling be. It would be a neat fit, mind you, but THE core drawback to convertibles is that pesky compartmentalization of weapon systems. Heck, transforming AutoMechs can't even mount modular armor, and that's really similar to what the Ram Plate is.

- Herb

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #983 on: 29 September 2022, 00:11:09 »
Meh. Even a pop-up is too spacious for what it says the Marco's does. So, who knows? And ultimately, who cares?

Well, if .5 tons works for 6 people, it should work for 2. I use the rest of the cargo space for samples.


Quote
Talk about telegraphing your moves!

Yeah. It sounds good but not the best idea. Although, I like the idea of using loud speakers to distract and annoy people.

Quote
As the rules are written, Reinforced Structure is possible, as it is an item featured in TechManual and TacOps pre-3060. But the Ram Plate, unless it has shown up in either, would be out. Unfortunately, as the Ram Plate is a weapon system that requires mounting in multiple hit locations, would be disallowed on a convertible AutoMech. A non-converting quad with a Reinforced Structure would be possible--but only if the Ram Plate has made it into the TM/TO books.

As I am okay with those conditionals, I think I shall leave that ruling be. It would be a neat fit, mind you, but THE core drawback to convertibles is that pesky compartmentalization of weapon systems. Heck, transforming AutoMechs can't even mount modular armor, and that's really similar to what the Ram Plate is.

- Herb

Forgot about the prohibition for multiple locations. It'd be nice for a non converting BeastMech though.  Too bad it isn't in a core book. I really wish that all previous items were included in the core book with new items included as errata. Having to hunt for things is a pain.  :(  Having the core books mention them and not be able to use them is annoying.  >:(

Items from IO can be mounted, as long as they're introduced by 3060 and aren't Clan, right?

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #984 on: 29 September 2022, 01:10:50 »
Yeah. It sounds good but not the best idea. Although, I like the idea of using loud speakers to distract and annoy people.

Bah. Blame the Snords for that one.

Quote
Items from IO can be mounted, as long as they're introduced by 3060 and aren't Clan, right?

What's in IO these days?

- Herb

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #985 on: 29 September 2022, 03:52:00 »
Bah. Blame the Snords for that one.

What's in IO these days?

- Herb

:)


Various dates for tech items.

Clan tech from the Wars of Reaving
Pilot interface systems
Prototype SLDF Tech
Dark Age RISC Tech
Dark Age Tech
Augmented Warriors
Centurion Weapon System
Prototype Clan Tech
Expanded Protomech types and systems
IS Recovered Tech and alternative munitions
LAMs
Machina Domini Interface
Modular Space Stations
Primitive Prototype Tech
Construction rules for Primitive Units and RetroTech 
Prototype Specialty Missiles from the Clan Invasion
QuadVees
Robotic and Drone Systems
Superheavy ’Mechs
Tripod ’Mechs
Thermobaric Weapons
Fuel-Air Munitions
Weapons of Mass Destruction (NBC weapons)
Word of Blake Super-Jump Drive

That's most things not already in TM or TO but there's still items missing from sourcebooks that are still legal.  I'd also include things from MaxTech and TacHandbook too. MaxTech stuff to add to the few quirk like tech items.  TacHandbook because items are mentioned in TO or could still be used as prototypes or primitive versions. But that's me.

HABeas2

  • Grand Vizier
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5903
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #986 on: 29 September 2022, 09:15:35 »
Various dates for tech items....
<list>
That's most things not already in TM or TO but there's still items missing from sourcebooks that are still legal.  I'd also include things from MaxTech and TacHandbook too. MaxTech stuff to add to the few quirk like tech items.  TacHandbook because items are mentioned in TO or could still be used as prototypes or primitive versions. But that's me.

Looking through that IO list in detail, I'm not seeing much that would add anything to the Syberians. A lot of the gear either doesn't apply (pilot modifications/control systems), or is already perfected (prototype pulse lasers). Meanwhile, MT and TH gear was very deliberately folded into the stuff we got between TO and IO, so there's not much I can think of there that's worthwhile.

So....

- Herb

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 30536
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #987 on: 29 September 2022, 17:13:55 »
Thermobarics at least should appeal to you, of all people...  ::)

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3863
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #988 on: 29 September 2022, 17:43:55 »
The prototype weapons could be cheap glitchy versions or used by factions who aren't quite as advanced to have full SLDF or 3060 IS Tech. 

There's a few things from TH and MT I think are still worthwhile. Even if only in a limited time span.

From TH, the Blazer and Glazed armor are good as prototypes of Reactive and Reflective Armors found in TO. Glazed Armor is even mentioned in TO, as is the Prototype Caseless Autocannon. AP Missiles are good against hoards of squishies. The Command Console is ideal for Primitive Command Mechs. I also like to use the Mechanical Jump Boosters as prototypes of the TO version.

With MT, I still like using the targeting systems as low tech, low cost, alternatives to quirks. I also like the bypass kits. The Critical Space Limits rule is interesting. (I'm thinking of them for IS Protos or Alien Mechs) There's the Additional Crewman Rule. (Found it! :) ) I like the Snow Mobile Chassis Mod. It's use would be rare but still useful. So are Hot Loaded Missiles.

So there's a few things in both these books that I think could have been included in TO or IO. For Syberians, some of these prototypes were introduced before the 3060 cut off date. They could be used on prototype drones. The bypass kits might be something Medical Drones might carry around to repair the wounded enough to get them to a repair bay.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 30536
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)
« Reply #989 on: 29 September 2022, 19:37:20 »
As much as I love Blazers, they weren't even prototyped until after the SLDF left...  :-\

 

Register