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Author Topic: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH  (Read 2213 times)

Lagrange

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #30 on: 26 November 2022, 07:53:33 »
...I can’t have everything.
A trick occurred to me.  If you swap to 16x Streak-5s + 8 tons ammo + 15 DHS, you could rely on missing (or, if it's to easy choose to not fire some weapons) to avoid overheating.  For example, if base gunnery is 3 and you are firing at long range against a TMM +0 opponent without cover for a to-hit of 7 you expect 9.33 streaks to hit for ~47 damage while remaining heat neutral in expectation.  The Bane 3 in contrast delivers an expected ~42 while overheating a bit.

Also, if you should find yourself in a situation where an opponent is easily hit and will not fire back, just turn off the void sig and deliver 80 damage at long range each round.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #31 on: 26 November 2022, 16:22:11 »
I was under the impression that Coolant pods were one use: am I wrong in this regard?

Dragon Cat

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #32 on: 26 November 2022, 17:02:23 »
Quote
My copy of IO (p. 116) says under “Clan Machina Domini Interfaces” that “the Clan version of the Machina Domini interface uses the same construction rules as the Inner Sphere version, except that they require a MechWarrior equipped with an EI neural implant instead of VDNI implants.”

I did not realise this

For a Mech like the Khan which is expected to last an entire game the Radical might be a better choice over the one shot coolant pods
Below are links to my fan fiction pages.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #33 on: 27 November 2022, 10:45:21 »
You could do dual Streak-15s in each arm for symmetry, right? And then you can shift the ammo into the side torsos for Case II.

I’m trying to do identical arms with the rest of the weapons in the center torso in as many configurations as possible.  If I put a Streak LRM-15 in each arm, the remaining two Streak LRM-15s don’t fit in the center torso because there’s five open crit slots there and the two Streak LRM-15s need six.  I could put them in the side torsos but that also goes against the scheme I’m going for.  Vain, I know, but I’m also trying to highlight that this and other Interface Cockpit designs can stash weapons in the center torso and keep firing until the bitter end.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #34 on: 27 November 2022, 10:49:26 »
I was under the impression that Coolant pods were one use: am I wrong in this regard?

They are.  I might replace the Radical Heat Sink (4 tons and 3 crit slots) with 3-4 Coolent Pods on the Khan B.  That would allow it to keep up an alpha strike over multiple consecutive turns without risking a Radical Heat Sink failure.  But after 3-4 turns, those Coolant Pods would be expended, while the Radical Heat Sink could still be used if it had not failed.

For a Mech like the Khan which is expected to last an entire game the Radical might be a better choice over the one shot coolant pods

Yeah, I’m torn over the best approach.  Leaving the Radical Heat Sink for now.

« Last Edit: 27 November 2022, 11:25:19 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #35 on: 27 November 2022, 10:53:36 »

A trick occurred to me.  If you swap to 16x Streak-5s + 8 tons ammo + 15 DHS, you could rely on missing (or, if it's to easy choose to not fire some weapons) to avoid overheating.  For example, if base gunnery is 3 and you are firing at long range against a TMM +0 opponent without cover for a to-hit of 7 you expect 9.33 streaks to hit for ~47 damage while remaining heat neutral in expectation.  The Bane 3 in contrast delivers an expected ~42 while overheating a bit.

Also, if you should find yourself in a situation where an opponent is easily hit and will not fire back, just turn off the void sig and deliver 80 damage at long range each round.

Yeah, if I can get it to work, I may combine massed Streak LRM-5s with RAC-5s in a later configuration.  Or just do a massed Streak LRM-5 configuration.
« Last Edit: 27 November 2022, 11:28:09 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #36 on: 27 November 2022, 11:29:07 »

Khan C (Command) and Khan D (Heavy Assault/Breaching) are up in the OP.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Lagrange

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #37 on: 27 November 2022, 15:08:31 »
Yeah, if I can get it to work, I may combine massed Streak LRM-5s with RAC-5s in a later configuration.  Or just do a massed Streak LRM-5 configuration.
The Streak-5s seem like a better representation of the Streak philosophy ("damage without waste") than Streak-20s since AMS is much less effective.  If you have 3 Streak-20s, one misses, and another is cut down by AMS, then you're dealing about 32 damage.  On the other hand, if you have 16 Streak-5s, 6 miss and one is cut down by AMS, you are dealing about 48 damage.

Also, if the target number is lower than 7, you can productively add called shot[high] (for head hits) or called shot[low] (for immobilization) to productively fix the "problem" of a to-low target number.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #38 on: 27 November 2022, 17:25:03 »
Optimization WOOT!!

C is a cool command variant and I do love the fact that you put a cowl on it for fluff’s sake. Obviously a TC would be better but not on this baby but still having two Gauss and two ER Larges with the gear you have: this is a new Wolf way of war. I could see Chance Vickers piloting one of these, either her or Kalidisa Kerensky.

The D appeals to any and all Lyran fans. I’m going to put that in a city hidden and ambush someone with it lol

Coldstone

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #39 on: 29 November 2022, 20:40:58 »
I highly doubt a former blakist system like the Void would gonna be used by the IlClan. Hell even the more advanced Null Sig and Chameleon systems wouldn't be used imo. Remember the clans had access to these systems since they had no doubt many Exterminators with them from the Star League. But they opted to not put any research in the field of Stealth Systems. I doubt this "hatred" for such systems is easy to overcome.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #40 on: 29 November 2022, 22:07:06 »
I highly doubt a former blakist system like the Void would gonna be used by the IlClan. Hell even the more advanced Null Sig and Chameleon systems wouldn't be used imo. Remember the clans had access to these systems since they had no doubt many Exterminators with them from the Star League. But they opted to not put any research in the field of Stealth Systems. I doubt this "hatred" for such systems is easy to overcome.

The Society showed that the Clans still had access to the Chameleon Light Polarization and Null-Signature Systems as late as 3072.  The Cephalus employed both.

If there was one, the Wolves broke the stealth taboo in 3137 with the Wulfen, which uses Spheroid Stealth Armor.

The Bears followed up with the Kontio in 3145, which again uses Spheroid Stealth Armor.

And, as I wrote in the OP, the Wolves again went the Stealth Armor route at the assault level with the Alpha Wolf in 3150.

The Clans also have various stealthy battle armor suits.

The Clans have also been breaking other combat taboos, like physical combat.  See Claws, Talons, Retractable Blades, and TSM on various Falcon and Bear mechs.

Given all this precedent, I don’t think it’s out of the question that the ilClan would employ Void-Sig if they got access to it on Terra.  Although originally a Blakist technology, the Jihad was 80+ years ago in game time.  Moreover, the Republic captured Raptor IIs and reversed-engineered Void-Sig for their own manufacture, so the Clans getting access to it is not out of the question, either.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #41 on: 30 November 2022, 12:02:04 »
80 years is how many Clan generations of sibko’s? I would say one of the only Clanners still around is Katherine (SD) but she died now what 10+ years in canon? Plus Clan Wolf is now the IlClan: all rules are thrown out the window. Plus with Alaric being the ‘genius’ he is any edge he can give to the Wolves over the rest of the Clans is a bonus. Having a Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguars in his back pocket, allowing the Dragoon’s to help and then backstabbing them, absorbing the rest of the Wolves in Exile.

Void Sig is just another tech: hell I wouldn’t be surprised if he started using Nova CEWS personally.

Isokrates

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #42 on: 30 November 2022, 15:06:24 »
We are watching...




Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #43 on: 02 December 2022, 18:03:11 »
Optimization WOOT!!

C is a cool command variant and I do love the fact that you put a cowl on it for fluff’s sake.

Yeah, with so much of the rest of the mech behind and to either side of its cockpit, the Stone Rhino always looked like it had the Cockpit Cowl quirk to me.  And it makes sense on a mech like the Khan/Great Wolf that has already invested so heavily in defensive measures — you want to minimize the chances of lucky shots taking out the MechWarrior.  At the end, I will add a blurb on suggested quirks and that will be one of them.

Quote
Obviously a TC would be better but not on this baby but still having two Gauss and two ER Larges with the gear you have: this is a new Wolf way of war. I could see Chance Vickers piloting one of these, either her or Kalidisa Kerensky.

There is a Targeting Computer configuration or two yet to come.  But the next assault mech in this series, the Oathmaster (Iron Wolf) will make more prominent use of TCs and other to-hit modifying weapons/equipment.  In some ways, the Oathmaster is intentionally the complementary opposite of the Khan (to present opponents with few good choices), and that’s one of the ways.

Quote
The D appeals to any and all Lyran fans. I’m going to put that in a city hidden and ambush someone with it lol

Yeah, I’ve played with and against the Fafnir enough to respect its abilities.  As long as it’s properly supported with other units and has a decent gunner/pilot, I’m a fan of a unit that can put two, 20+ point hits into enemy mechs at range at the core of a formation.

That said, I wouldn’t use the Khan D in the city.  The Improved Heavy Gauss can reach out to 19 hexes with 22 point of damage but has a minimum range of 3 hexes.  And the capped ER PPCs can reach out to 23 hexes with 20 points of damage.  So the D is really an open-field unit for cracking open enemy armor early on high-end medium, heavy, and assault mechs and then exploiting those holes with crit-seeking escorts before the enemy mechs become much of a threat.  In the city (or jungle, etc.), the D’s range is wasted and it’s slightly more vulnerable than the other configurations to a fast-mover getting under the minimum range of its Improved Heavy Gauss.

I’d use the B configuration in the city.  Although the Void-Sig and ECM make every Khan is a potential ambusher, with its jump jets, massed Pulse Mediums, and Radical Heat Sink, the Khan B is the real mugger.  It can ramp up the firepower in an ambush, get it there accurately, and maneuver in the tight confines of a city in ways the other configurations cannot.  There’s also a Khan S coming and maybe another close-ranged configuration or two in the wings.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #44 on: 02 December 2022, 18:14:49 »
80 years is how many Clan generations of sibko’s? I would say one of the only Clanners still around is Katherine (SD) but she died now what 10+ years in canon? Plus Clan Wolf is now the IlClan: all rules are thrown out the window. Plus with Alaric being the ‘genius’ he is any edge he can give to the Wolves over the rest of the Clans is a bonus. Having a Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguars in his back pocket, allowing the Dragoon’s to help and then backstabbing them, absorbing the rest of the Wolves in Exile.

Yeah, just given the proliferation of Stealth Armor to Clan omnis and the fluff about the Republic having access to Void-Sig, I don’t think there’s anything in-game that would prevent the ilClan from fielding it.  But out of game, I don’t think Void-Sig is in the BMM, and that will probably keep it from appearing in a Rec Guide for some time to come.

Quote
Void Sig is just another tech: hell I wouldn’t be surprised if he started using Nova CEWS personally.

Unlike the RotS connection for Void-Sig, I don’t think there’s any evidence that the Spheroid Clans know about or have access to Nova CEWS, so I didn’t go that route.  Even if there was, I’m more interested in creating C3-like modifiers without using C3 by combining the Interface Cockpit with AES, TC, Artemis V, pulse, LB-X cluster, etc.  You can get some ridiculous stacking of to-hit modifiers without having to rely on awkward coordination between spotter and fire support units.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #45 on: 02 December 2022, 18:17:30 »
We are watching...

Ha!  Since their crews already rely on teamwork, I would like to see Nova CEWS on some killer QuadVees.  Would be awesome if the Lions had the latter or the Horses had the former (or both).
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #46 on: 02 December 2022, 18:19:27 »

The Khan E (ATMs), F (incendiary/anti-tank/anti-infantry), and G (anti-air) configurations are up in the second post.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Charistoph

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #47 on: 02 December 2022, 18:19:34 »
Unlike the RotS connection for Void-Sig, I don’t think there’s any evidence that the Spheroid Clans know about or have access to Nova CEWS, so I didn’t go that route.

While I haven't had time to completely review where The Society hit, weren't they pretty heavy in Jade Falcon (for a Crusader Clan), and weren't they pretty much entirely in the Inner Sphere at that point?

Still, NCEWS would have probably been quite rare even there.
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They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #48 on: 02 December 2022, 18:26:57 »
While I haven't had time to completely review where The Society hit, weren't they pretty heavy in Jade Falcon (for a Crusader Clan), and weren't they pretty much entirely in the Inner Sphere at that point?

The Society’s Jade Falcon presence — which was really driven by Etienne — seemed to have been focused on Protomech development and production, which don’t/can’t use Nova CEWS.  Although there are some biological attacks against the Tseng line in the Bears, I don’t think there’s much other Society activity among the Spheroid Clans.  We certainly never see the Society’s omnimechs (Septicemia, Osteon, Cephalus, Configuration Z-series) outside the Homeworlds, and those are the units that had Nova CEWS.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Charistoph

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #49 on: 02 December 2022, 18:30:10 »
The Society’s Jade Falcon presence — which was really driven by Etienne — seemed to have been focused on Protomech development and production, which don’t/can’t use Nova CEWS.  Although there are some biological attacks against the Tseng line in the Bears, I don’t think there’s much other Society activity among the Spheroid Clans.  We certainly never see the Society’s omnimechs (Septicemia, Osteon, Cephalus, Configuration Z-series) outside the Homeworlds, and those are the units that had Nova CEWS.

Along with the Z variants of Omnimechs, don't forget.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #50 on: 02 December 2022, 18:44:52 »
Along with the Z variants of Omnimechs, don't forget.

Yea, I wrote “Configuration Z-series”.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Charistoph

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #51 on: 03 December 2022, 01:21:06 »
Yea, I wrote “Configuration Z-series”.

Ah, missed that.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Quote from: Megavolt
They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.

Charistoph's Painted Products of Mechanical Mayhem

Lagrange

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #52 on: 03 December 2022, 07:19:13 »
I've quite enjoyed the configs as a master class in what can be done with a tough crit-to-ton ratio, but the ratio does seem to cramp possibilities for some missions. 

For example, anti-air via Arrow IV is pretty convincing due to the 3x longer range of the air defense arrows. 

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #53 on: 04 December 2022, 20:40:22 »
I've quite enjoyed the configs as a master class in what can be done with a tough crit-to-ton ratio

Thanks, L.

Quote
but the ratio does seem to cramp possibilities for some missions. 

Sure, there’s tradeoffs.  IMO, the biggest missing configuration is a big-gun, all-energy configuration like the Hellstar.  There’s something to be said for a design that can throw multiple 15-point shots with no ammo and lots of crit sinks.  But with the Void-Sig, the Khan doesn’t have the crit slots to pull it off.

Outside of that, she can do pretty much everything else and do it decently to very well.  I’m okay with that trade off for the Void-Sig.

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For example, anti-air via Arrow IV is pretty convincing due to the 3x longer range of the air defense arrows.

Honestly, although it makes for interesting designs, IMO, putting Arrow IV or other artillery on a mech is a waste of a mech (and its BV or tonnage or C-Bills).  Mechs are the most survivable unit in the game, by far.  They belong in combat on the frontline because they can lose sections without dying, are difficult to crit, don’t suffer pillboxing, etc.

I put Arrow IV on combat vehicles.  They are vulnerable to death from section loss, their crit tables are littered with ways to insta-kill them, and they’re easily pillboxed.  So in an ideal force, I like to keep vehicles at the rear and off the map board where I’m least likely to lose them.  And that means they’re ideal for Arrow IV and other artillery.

There’s almost always a special munition that will be a rock to your scissors.  But that doesn’t mean it belongs on your scissors unit.  If I wanted to run Arrow IV ADA instead of HAGs or LB 2-X ACs, I’d put it on something like this:

PERUN —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/perun-medium-missile-artillery-tank/

Or I’d just field old Chaparrals and Padillas.  I could probably run a handful of the, for the cost of one expensive omni like the Khan.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #54 on: 04 December 2022, 20:41:50 »

Configuration I (Suppression) is up in the second post.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Lagrange

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #55 on: 04 December 2022, 22:41:45 »
Honestly, although it makes for interesting designs, IMO, putting Arrow IV or other artillery on a mech is a waste of a mech (and its BV or tonnage or C-Bills). 
We disagree here as per the Headhunter thread.  AIV on mechs allows for direct fire of cluster munitions which are quite potent given that cluster munitions are resolved on the shot from above (=punch) table. 

Comparing, Headhunter costs 19M and has BV 2199
while Great Khan Prime costs 27M and has BV 4080

But in a 1-on-1 matchup starting at range, the Headhunter with a cluster munitions load looks favored as all it takes is 4-5 hits to eliminate the Khan's head.  For example, if you try to 'balance' BV by giving the Headhunter gunnery 1 while Great Khan has gunnery 4, then the target number might be 5 and the Great Khan is plausibly no longer functional after round 3.

If there is a flaw in the logic, it would be great to know it.

PERUN —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/combat-vehicles/perun-medium-missile-artillery-tank/
Twin AIVs in 50 tons is quite nice. 

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #56 on: 05 December 2022, 00:32:07 »
We disagree here

I don’t disagree so much as I don’t see the point.  Yeah, unless the Khan is properly escorted by a fast friendly unit or two, the Headhunter will exploit the area attack rules and/or the punch hit location table to eventually put the Khan down after a handful of turns.  But there are special types of ammo that can trump pretty much any design of any unit type in the game if properly applied.  So playing rock-paper-scissors with special ammo types doesn’t really show that one design is inherently better or worse than another.  It just shows that someone has read the alternate ammo rules and their opponent has not.  Setting aside the Headhunter for a minute, anyone who played a lone Khan against a lone Naga while letting the Naga player have full access to alt ammo types would be boneheaded.  That doesn’t mean the Naga is an inherently better design, just that the Khan player was boneheaded to allow alt ammo.

The point I made regarding Arrow IV is that putting it on a mech like the Headhunter (or Naga or Bowman) is a waste of a mech (or its BV, tonnage, C-Bills, or whatever the balancing mechanism is).  It doesn’t play to the strength of mechs (their high survivability), and you get way more Arrow IV bang-for-your-buck on combat vehicles (or even Arrow IV infantry) and cover their weaknesses by keeping them safely off board.  As cool as a couple Arrow IVs on a tripod raining shotguns from the sky is, if I really want to play the Arrow IV special ammo rock-paper-scissors game, I’d rather just have four Yellow Jackets for about the same BV raining up to twice as a many Arrow IVs from a safe distance away.

Put it another way, the Headhunter, Naga, etc. are a suboptimal way to exploit Arrow IV.  They only really work in their narrow niche when the other side doesn’t have Arrow IV or doesn’t know to exploit it fully.  If both sides are allowed and knowledgeable enough to exploit Arrow IV fully, then they’re going to run stuff like Yellow Jackets, Missile Artillery Infantry, and the like, not Arrow IV mechs.

Twin AIVs in 50 tons is quite nice.

Thanks.  It’s on the slow side, though.  I’m curious what the BV2 is vice other combat vehicle and infantry options.
« Last Edit: 05 December 2022, 00:59:40 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Lagrange

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #57 on: 05 December 2022, 08:58:30 »
...rock-paper-scissors with special ammo types doesn’t really show that one design is inherently better or worse than another....
The difference with RPS is that you can play multiple strategies with deep enough ammo reserves.  For example:
Rock: ADA for 17/34/51 range Flak.
Paper: Inferno rounds for area effect heating on TSM chargers.
Scissors: Cluster rounds to kill assault mechs

...they’re going to run stuff like Yellow Jackets...
A nice platform, but they can't use ADAs and are highly vulnerable to them.
Missile Artillery Infantry
These are nearly immobile and easily eliminated as infantry are so vulnerable to AE damage.

Using ADA, Inferno, and direct fire of cluster rounds effectively requires a survivable platform which is where Mech-based AIVs start seeming fairly reasonable.  (Of course, if the goal is minimizing cost...I'd probably go with a somewhat different design than the Headhunter.)
Thanks.  It’s on the slow side, though.  I’m curious what the BV2 is vice other combat vehicle and infantry options.
I'd suggest dropping it to 1/2, using a fuel cell engine, and using the savings for deeper ammo reserves (maybe scavenge the ERMLs).  Use the savings for a downpayment on support craft which carries a pair of them.  That gives you much more ammunition paired with orbital mobility for optimal insertion and overrun avoidance. 

Dragon Cat

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #58 on: 06 December 2022, 15:56:49 »
ATMs and gauss is just cool

LBXs death is nasty

Twin HAG40s wrong platform I'd rather use this as a surprise Mech using its Stealth the HAGs could work if you were going SLDF style full Stars of these

Rotary ACs interesting
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-(full)/

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-fiction/alternate-timeline-with-thanks-full-part-2/

As always please enjoy and if you have any questions about my AU (or want to chat about ideas I could incorporate into it) feel free to PM me.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: ILCLAN SERIES: KHAN (GREAT WOLF) ASSAULT OMNIMECH
« Reply #59 on: 07 December 2022, 00:45:42 »
ATMs and gauss is just cool

LBXs death is nasty

Thx, DC.  The Khan E is a solid mech killer, and the F is an anti-tank/anti-battle armor/anti-infantry war crime.

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Twin HAG40s wrong platform I'd rather use this as a surprise Mech using its Stealth the HAGs could work if you were going SLDF style full Stars of these

Although their damage potential goes up as the range closes and are thus good for close combat, HAGs have a minimum range of 2 hexes so they’re not the best weapon for ambush attacks.  The F, G, and I would all be dangerous to airborne units, but I give the anti-air label to the G because of its flak and VTOL bonuses.  Obviously copying the Dire Wolf D.

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Rotary ACs interesting

The RAC/2s on the Khan I mimics the ten Ultra AC/2s on the original Bane and can actually fire a few more rounds than the Bane on full auto (but not recommended due to high jam potential).  Good for shooting down aircraft, pillboxing tanks, taking out infantry at range, and fishing for crits against heavily armored mechs.  But I just called it a “suppression” unit.

I’d like to have a RAC/5 configuration but have not found one I like yet.  At least three more configurations to post when I have the time.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."