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Author Topic: Design challenge: Light  (Read 883 times)

Cannonshop

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  • Posts: 5382
Design challenge: Light
« on: 16 May 2020, 14:03:04 »
Required tech: TSM

Basic concept: constant motion/movement and ranged attack.  This is NOT A BRAWLER challenge.  the central conceit is something to drive 'position' players (those who secure a spot on the map, at medium range, and exchange fire until the venue closes) absolutely barking batshit mad, by dint of staying in motion at all times.

Weight Limit: 30 tons.  no heavier, this isn't to be a light medium, or to be a medium only because it's 5t short of max.  In order to highlight this, you're limited to 30 tons maximum weight-which means there are light 'mechs that are heavier.

Tech Base: IS or mixed-tech, or 3140s tech.  (Yes, DA/AoD tech is permissible for this), whatever else you choose, it must be compatible with TSM under the rules.

a few notes:

TSM only goes active at 9 heat or above, and you start taking mobility issues at 10.  You'll want to keep this thing 'heat balanced' without turning off the sinks or eating an inferno.

Looking for: Fast with good punch, armor is tertiary but it should be able to fall down from a standing position without going internal.

The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Lieutenant
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  • Posts: 863
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #1 on: 16 May 2020, 14:38:14 »
Code: [Select]
Valiant VLT-JA

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XXL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
     1 TAG
     1 Medium Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 17,604,340 C-bills

Type: Valiant
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,320

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XXL                 4
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 10
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Compact Gyro                                        4.5
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          105                   5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jets                    LL        2        -       1.0   
C3 Computer                    CT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Pulse Laser             CT        1        4       2.0   
ECM Suite                      CT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                CT        1        5       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        2        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                       RT        1        -       0.5   
6 Triple Strength Myomers      LA        6        -       0.0   
Partial Wing                 RT/LT      3/3       -       1.5   
3 Jump Jets                    LT        3        -       1.5   
2 Jump Jets                    RL        2        -       1.0   
TAG                            HD        1        0       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Improved Targeting (Short), Protected Actuators, Weak Head Armor (1)

What about this? It may generates up to 25 heats and can soak 23 heats per a turn. If you want to keep the heat you can just jump 9 hexes. Also it doesn't care for have 10 heats to gets -1 MP, for it only affects ground MP.


Code: [Select]
Valiant VLT-JA2

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     3 ER Medium Laser
     1 TAG
     1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-E
Cost: 6,557,590 C-bills

Type: Valiant
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,583

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XL                  6
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 10
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Small Cockpit                                         2
Armor Factor (Ferro)          105                   5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jets                    LL        2        -       1.0   
C3 Computer                    CT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                CT        1        5       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        2        -       1.0   
ECM Suite                      RT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                RT        1        5       1.0   
Jump Jet                       RT        1        -       0.5   
6 Triple Strength Myomers      LA        6        -       0.0   
Partial Wing                 RT/LT      3/3       -       1.5   
ER Medium Laser                LT        1        5       1.0   
4 Jump Jets                    LT        4        -       2.0   
Jump Jet                       RL        1        -       0.5   
Flamer                         HD        1        3       0.5   
TAG                            HD        1        0       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Improved Targeting (Short), Protected Actuators, Weak Head Armor (1)

An alternative, that have a Flamer as heat controller. You will need three turns to fully waste flamer attacks and you are fully charged. After then you may jump 10 hexes all the times while keep activating TSM and jumps.

Daryk

  • Colonel
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  • Posts: 18005
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #2 on: 16 May 2020, 16:08:50 »
This one's all IS tech... Clan stuff makes it just too easy...
Code: [Select]
Punchy PNC-HY1

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 0
Dry Cost: 6,896,890 C-Bills
Total Cost: 6,896,890 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,138

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 108.0 km/h (118.8 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 162.0 km/h (183.6 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  ER Medium Lasers
    2  ER Small Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    51 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 5 LA, 5 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 10 (11)
    Running MP: 15 (17)
    Jumping MP: 10 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 5 LT, 5 RT                                         5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     1.50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
    TSM Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     10           15       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     7            10       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     5            10       
                                             L/R Leg     7            14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1.00
ER Small Laser                               RT        2         1         0.50
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1.00
ER Small Laser                               LT        2         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 11
10j        2       2       0       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: TSM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Sabelkatten

  • Major
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  • Posts: 5800
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #3 on: 16 May 2020, 17:09:23 »
Opponent doesn't want to move? 11/17 ERPPC to the rescue!

Code: [Select]
Snipes SNP-6

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 6,334,250 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,268

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 108.0 km/h (118.8 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 162.0 km/h (183.6 km/h)
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  ER Small Laser
    1  ER Flamer
    1  Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    51 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 9 LT, 3 LA, 2 LL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 10 (11)
    Running MP: 15 (17)
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               XL                                                     1.50
Cockpit:            Small                                                  2.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
    TSM Locations: 6 LA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV -  80                  4.50
    Armor Locations: 7 RT, 7 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     10           11       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  3         
                                           L/R Torso     7            10       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  3         
                                             L/R Arm     5            6         
                                             L/R Leg     7            10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Laser                                  HD        1         1         0.50
ER Small Laser                               HD        2         1         0.50
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         2         2.00
ER PPC                                       RA        15        3         7.00
ER Flamer                                    LA        4         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 2

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 13
10         2       2       2       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: TSM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
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  • Posts: 4666
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #4 on: 16 May 2020, 21:37:49 »
How about this?
Code: [Select]
BattleMech Technical Readout

Name/Model:         Gnat (GNT-1X)
Designer:           Ruger
Source(s):          Custom Mordel.Net Units
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Technology Rating:  E
Tonnage:            20
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech
Era/Year:           Dark Age / 3150
Rules (Current):    Tournament Legal
Rules (Era):        Tournament Legal
Rules (Year):       Tournament Legal
Total Cost:         3,627,500 C-Bills
Battle Value:       1,240

Chassis:              Endo Steel
Power Plant:          200 XL
Walking Speed:        108 kph   [118.8 kph]
Maximum Speed:        162 kph   [183.6 kph]
Jump Jets:            None
    Jump Capacity:    None
Armor:                Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:             
    4 ER Medium Lasers
    3 Medium Lasers
    1 Small Laser
Manufacturer:         Unknown
    Primary Factory:  Unknown
Communications:       Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown

================================================================================================
Overview:
    Designed to be an irritant that?s hard to swat away, and utterly annoying.

================================================================================================
Equipment                                                             Mass                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure:                         Endo Steel                 1.00                     
Engine:                                       200 XL                   4.50                     
    Walking MP:                              10 [11]                                           
    Running MP:                              15 [17]                                           
    Jumping MP:                                 0                                               
Heat Sinks (Double):                         10 [20]                   0.00                     
Gyro:                                           XL                     1.00                     
Cockpit:                                      Small                    2.00                     
Armor Factor:                                   66                     4.00                     
    Type:                              Light Ferro-Fibrous                                     

                                    Internal         Armor     
                                    Structure        Value     
    Head:                               3              6       
    Center Torso:                       6             10       
    Center Torso (rear):                               2       
    R/L Torso:                          5              8       
    R/L Torso (rear):                                  2       
    R/L Arm:                            3              6       
    R/L Leg:                            4              8       

================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo                                       Location          Critical     Tonnage   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                              H                 1          1.00             
Small Laser                                               H                 1          0.50             
ER Medium Laser                                           RT                1          1.00             
ER Medium Laser                                           LT                1          1.00             
ER Medium Laser                                           RA                1          1.00             
Medium Laser                                              RA                1          1.00             
ER Medium Laser                                           LA                1          1.00             
Medium Laser                                              LA                1          1.00             
Triple-Strength Myomer                                    --                6          0.00             

================================================================================================
Alpha Strike Statistics                                             
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Value (PV): 33
TP: BM,  SZ: 1,  TMM: 4,  MV: 20"
Damage: (S) 3 / (M) 3 / (L) 0,  OV: 1
Armor (A): 2,  Structure (S): 1
Specials: ENE, TSM

Should fit most of the criteria.

Edit: you could also up the tonnage to 30 tons with max ferro-fibrous armor. Changing nothing else on my Gnat allows you to fit a two ton targeting computer in the right torso.

Ruger
« Last Edit: 17 May 2020, 18:22:55 by Ruger »
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Ruger

  • Battletech Volunteer
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  • Posts: 4666
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #5 on: 16 May 2020, 22:37:02 »
And this is also an option:

Code: [Select]

                 BattleMech Technical Readout

Name/Model:         Mosquito (MQT-1X)
Designer:           Ruger
Source(s):          Custom Mordel.Net Units
Technology:         Inner Sphere (Mixed)
Technology Rating:  F
Tonnage:            30
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech
Era/Year:           Dark Age / 3150
Rules (Current):    Experimental
Rules (Era):        Experimental
Rules (Year):       Experimental
Total Cost:         8,594,625 C-Bills
Battle Value:       1,404

Chassis:              Endo Steel
Power Plant:          300 XL
Walking Speed:        108 kph   [118.8 kph]
Maximum Speed:        162 kph   [183.6 kph]
Jump Jets:            None
    Jump Capacity:    None
Armor:                Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:             
    1 ER Large Laser (C)
    2 Medium Lasers
    3 Small Lasers
Manufacturer:         Unknown
    Primary Factory:  Unknown
Communications:       Unknown
Targeting & Tracking: Unknown

================================================================================================
Overview:
    Designed to be an irritant that is hard to swat away, and utterly annoying. Made it mixed
    tech solely to get the Clan tech ER Large due to its exceptional range.

================================================================================================
Equipment                                                             Mass                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure:                         Endo Steel                 1.50                     
Engine:                                       300 XL                   9.50                     
    Walking MP:                              10 [11]                                           
    Running MP:                              15 [17]                                           
    Jumping MP:                                 0                                               
Heat Sinks (Double):                         10 [20]                   0.00                     
Gyro:                                        Standard                  3.00                     
Cockpit:                                      Small                    2.00                     
Armor Factor:                                  105                     6.50                     
    Type:                              Light Ferro-Fibrous                                     

                                    Internal         Armor     
                                    Structure        Value     
    Head:                               3              9       
    Center Torso:                      10             15       
    Center Torso (rear):                               5       
    R/L Torso:                          7             10       
    R/L Torso (rear):                                  4       
    R/L Arm:                            5             10       
    R/L Leg:                            7             14       

================================================================================================
Weapons and Ammo                                       Location          Critical     Tonnage   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser (C)                                        H                 1          4.00             
Small Laser                                               H                 1          0.50             
Null-Signature System                                     *                 7          0.00             
Medium Laser                                              RA                1          1.00             
Small Laser                                               RA                1          0.50             
Chameleon LPS                                             **                6          0.00             
Medium Laser                                              LA                1          1.00             
Small Laser                                               LA                1          0.50             
Triple-Strength Myomer                                    --                6          0.00             

* Null-Signature System occupies 1 critical slot in each location except the Head
** Chameleon LPS occupies 1 critical slot in each location except the Head and Center Torso

================================================================================================
Alpha Strike Statistics                                             
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Value (PV): 38
TP: BM,  SZ: 1,  TMM: 4,  MV: 20"
Damage: (S) 2 / (M) 2 / (L) 1,  OV: 0
Armor (A): 4,  Structure (S): 1
Specials: ENE, STL, TSM

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Cannonshop

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5382
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #6 on: 17 May 2020, 14:42:47 »
Code: [Select]
Valiant VLT-JA

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XXL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
     1 TAG
     1 Medium Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-F
Cost: 17,604,340 C-bills

Type: Valiant
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,320

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XXL                 4
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 10
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Compact Gyro                                        4.5
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          105                   5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jets                    LL        2        -       1.0   
C3 Computer                    CT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Pulse Laser             CT        1        4       2.0   
ECM Suite                      CT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                CT        1        5       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        2        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                       RT        1        -       0.5   
6 Triple Strength Myomers      LA        6        -       0.0   
Partial Wing                 RT/LT      3/3       -       1.5   
3 Jump Jets                    LT        3        -       1.5   
2 Jump Jets                    RL        2        -       1.0   
TAG                            HD        1        0       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Improved Targeting (Short), Protected Actuators, Weak Head Armor (1)

What about this? It may generates up to 25 heats and can soak 23 heats per a turn. If you want to keep the heat you can just jump 9 hexes. Also it doesn't care for have 10 heats to gets -1 MP, for it only affects ground MP.


Code: [Select]
Valiant VLT-JA2

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     3 ER Medium Laser
     1 TAG
     1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-E
Cost: 6,557,590 C-bills

Type: Valiant
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,583

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XL                  6
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 10
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Small Cockpit                                         2
Armor Factor (Ferro)          105                   5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jets                    LL        2        -       1.0   
C3 Computer                    CT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                CT        1        5       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        2        -       1.0   
ECM Suite                      RT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                RT        1        5       1.0   
Jump Jet                       RT        1        -       0.5   
6 Triple Strength Myomers      LA        6        -       0.0   
Partial Wing                 RT/LT      3/3       -       1.5   
ER Medium Laser                LT        1        5       1.0   
4 Jump Jets                    LT        4        -       2.0   
Jump Jet                       RL        1        -       0.5   
Flamer                         HD        1        3       0.5   
TAG                            HD        1        0       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Improved Targeting (Short), Protected Actuators, Weak Head Armor (1)

An alternative, that have a Flamer as heat controller. You will need three turns to fully waste flamer attacks and you are fully charged. After then you may jump 10 hexes all the times while keep activating TSM and jumps.

I think you're missing what 'sustained' means in the context I put it.  heat curve for TSM to function properly is 9 heat, sustaining 9 heat while still being enough of a threat, means needing to be able to keep up 9 heat every turn while still having a reasonable chance of doing damage EVERY TURN. One of the problems with constant jumping is missing a lot if you even have a targeting solution.

(and I mean a LOT.) Statistically you're more likely to hit on a 10 than an 11 by a pretty fair margin, so that single pip difference from jumping can be a real pain when you're looking at 11 or higher.

(gunnery 4, plus 1 for heat, plus three for jumping, now add range and target movement versus gunnery 4, plus 1 for heat, plus 2 for running and THEN add range and target movement.)

The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Hellraiser

  • Lieutenant Colonel
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  • Posts: 9302
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2020, 15:20:08 »
I decided to create a variant of a Light Mech that already had TSM to make things easier as refits go.
         
Scarabus-9T-C         
Remove Hatchet, Lasers, ECM         
Add c-ERLL         
Add c-ERML         
Add ERmicL x2         
Add Super Charger         


I feel like something moving that fast is really going to be a pain to keep from finding its "Sweet Spot" and shooting your camper every turn.

15 Hexes away it can fire the ERLL at Medium & the ERML & TAG at Long.
While staying out of Medium for nearly every non-clan & most clan weapons.
The Micros allow for heat management but will only get used in the event of a rare speedy backstab w/ Kick scenario.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Cannonshop

  • Major
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  • Posts: 5382
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2020, 16:08:20 »
for those who don't know/don't have experience/want to get into a pointless argument, 'sustained 9' kind of requires the same tactics you see with non-heat-neutral introtech 'mechs.

Imagine a hypothetical 'mech built for a sustained 9 heat to maintain movement bonuses in walking and running (because it does nothing for your jump, it really doe nothing at all.)

assume a base 10 double heat sinks for 20 heat sinkage goodness.

First firing phase: this is your zero to 9 heat.    Your movement plus fire must generate 29 heat that turn. 20 will sink during the heat phase, leaving 9 heat.

Second firing phase: you now have to reduce your heat generation to be balanced at 20 heat, which is enough for your sinks to sink all but that leftover 9 from the previous turn.

and you must be able to sustain that 20 heat (minus engine hits/heat sink damage/inferno gel/plasma hits) indefinitely to fit the terms of the challenge.

essentially, once you hit 9 heat to meet the challenge, you need to be able to continue in what amounts to a heat-neutral state while still being able t shoot and move, and since the entire point is your GROUND MOVEMENT, this excludes jumping except in that first round.

after all, you can build an icebox jumping-bean pretty easily without TSM.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Daryk

  • Colonel
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  • Posts: 18005
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2020, 16:12:21 »
I'm thinking 10 Jump plus 2 ER Mediums will maintain 9 heat just fine, and be able to throw 6-point punches every other round if there's only one target...

Cannonshop

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  • Posts: 5382
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #10 on: 17 May 2020, 16:27:05 »
I'm thinking 10 Jump plus 2 ER Mediums will maintain 9 heat just fine, and be able to throw 6-point punches every other round if there's only one target...

if your objective was to build a physical brawler for Solaris, yes.  the whole point of the exercise isn't to make yet another boxing 'mech to wow the crowds at the greatest show in the Inner Sphere.

Jumping movement's fine-if that's your kickoff, but the whole point is something different-that much tonnage (IJJ's in that quantity) can be better spent on weapons or mission hardware for a machine designed to fight in a war.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

kindalas

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 402
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2020, 17:01:01 »
A basic design based around a TSM boosted mobility system.

Three medium lasers paired with Three medium X-Pulse Lasers, using DHS an ES skeleton and a light engine.

In combat it is as fast as a Locust and if the pilot were to fall off the heat curve due to a lack of targets it takes a moment to snap back into the sweet spot.

The weapons have been spread out over the mech's arms and torsos to discourage getting close enough to make physical attacks.

The Mech was named after Mímir whose decapitated head provided Odin with wisdom after the Æsir-Vanir War

Code: [Select]
Mímir MR-9Q

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 210 Light
Cruising Speed: 75.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 118.8 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     3 Medium Laser
     3 Medium X-Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 4,690,140 C-bills

Type: Mímir MR-9Q
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,170

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        210 Light               7
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  104                   6.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Medium Laser                   CT        1        3       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           CT        1        6       2.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        3        -       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           RT        1        6       2.0   
Medium Laser                   LA        1        3       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer       RA/LA      5/1       -       0.0   
Medium Laser                   LT        1        3       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               LT        3        -       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           RA        1        6       2.0   
5 Triple Strength Myomers    RA/LA      5/1       -       0.0   


Cannonshop

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5382
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #12 on: 17 May 2020, 18:51:57 »
A basic design based around a TSM boosted mobility system.

Three medium lasers paired with Three medium X-Pulse Lasers, using DHS an ES skeleton and a light engine.

In combat it is as fast as a Locust and if the pilot were to fall off the heat curve due to a lack of targets it takes a moment to snap back into the sweet spot.

The weapons have been spread out over the mech's arms and torsos to discourage getting close enough to make physical attacks.

The Mech was named after Mímir whose decapitated head provided Odin with wisdom after the Æsir-Vanir War

Code: [Select]
Mímir MR-9Q

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 210 Light
Cruising Speed: 75.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 118.8 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     3 Medium Laser
     3 Medium X-Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 4,690,140 C-bills

Type: Mímir MR-9Q
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,170

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        210 Light               7
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  104                   6.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        15   
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               7         11   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Medium Laser                   CT        1        3       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           CT        1        6       2.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        3        -       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           RT        1        6       2.0   
Medium Laser                   LA        1        3       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer       RA/LA      5/1       -       0.0   
Medium Laser                   LT        1        3       1.0   
Double Heat Sink               LT        3        -       1.0   
Medium X-Pulse Laser           RA        1        6       2.0   
5 Triple Strength Myomers    RA/LA      5/1       -       0.0   


this is more in line with what i was thinking about than the ones I previously commented on.  it's not built for boxing matches or pro-wrestling extravaganzas, or duels, it's built for WAR.
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #13 on: 17 May 2020, 19:33:49 »
If you want something built for WAR, I might suggest TSM isn't really the system to hang your hat on.  An extra movement point based on a penalty to fire isn't really a trade worth making.  The punches are really the advantage of that particular technology.  Three tons of clan lasers on a 10/15/10 chassis can cause plenty of havoc, AND deal with a camper.

Cannonshop

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #14 on: 17 May 2020, 20:19:41 »
If you want something built for WAR, I might suggest TSM isn't really the system to hang your hat on.  An extra movement point based on a penalty to fire isn't really a trade worth making.  The punches are really the advantage of that particular technology.  Three tons of clan lasers on a 10/15/10 chassis can cause plenty of havoc, AND deal with a camper.

That's a point worth considering, that TSM might be a dead-end as a military technology.  (or at least as dead-end as eighty ton 'mechs specializing in fist-fighting is a dead end.)

point being, physical specialists really aren't useful outside of very controlled conditions.  That said, a light cavalry unit that benefits from rapid, continuous fire and high movement is probably more useful than a unit that tries to chop things with an axe or is designed to go pick a boxing match.

the main role I'd envision for the result of this challenge, is a unit that rushes into the back-field and moves from target to target rapidly, not so much trying to defeat each opponent as an individual, but rather, moving in packs, hitting in strings and staying in motion.  that 'hitting' part is probably kind of important.  your 10/15/10 suggestion works infinitely better without TSM at all, as a light in a physical attack brawl is a vulnerable target, not a potent asset.  (also without the need for the heats, your 10/15/10 hits on the jump about as often as a TSM unit that's running hot on the ground does-only the runner can carry more armor and bigger payloads since he's not spending  5 tons OR MORE on jump jets.)





The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #15 on: 17 May 2020, 20:37:18 »
I'm thinking 6 clan ER Smalls would be plenty of pain... using clan Endo and Ferro might get a 7th...

Getz

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #16 on: 18 May 2020, 09:22:13 »
So this is my attempt.  I've indulged in a little mixed-tech, but replacing the clan-tech lasers with their IS equivalents doesn't mess with the heat curve, so you can do a completely sphereoid version if you prefer,

Code: [Select]
Pouncelot

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Mixed
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 5,687,890 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,457

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 86.4 km/h (97.2 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h (151.2 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  (CL) Medium Pulse Laser
    2  (IS) ER Medium Lasers
    4  (CL) ER Small Lasers
    2  (IS) Small Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    51 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 6 LA, 6 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Engine                    240                       6.00
    Walking MP: 8 (9)
    Running MP: 12 (14)
    Jumping MP: 7 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT                                   3.50
Heat Sinks:         (IS) Double Heat Sink        11(22)                    1.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Small                                                  2.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
    TSM Locations: 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  96                  6.00

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     10           14       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  4         
                                           L/R Torso     7            11       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  3         
                                             L/R Arm     5            7         
                                             L/R Leg     7            14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 (CL) ER Small Lasers                       RT        4         2         1.00
(IS) ER Medium Laser                         RT        5         1         1.00
2 (CL) ER Small Lasers                       LT        4         2         1.00
(IS) ER Medium Laser                         LT        5         1         1.00
(CL) Medium Pulse Laser                      CT        4         1         2.00
2 (IS) Small Lasers                          HD        2         2         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 15
8/5j       4       4       0       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: TSM, ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

A jumping alpha will put you straight to 9, thereafter you should always be able to juggle the weapons so as to stay heat neutral in any movement mode.  Seeeing as mobility is so important I've put max armour on the legs.  I avoided putting any weapons in the arms on the assumption that you'd want to get punchy, but you could (and I probably would) move some of the weapons out into the arms if you're only interested in the speed buff from TSM or kicking.
« Last Edit: 18 May 2020, 09:25:40 by Getz »

I fell out of favour with heaven somewhere, so I'm here for the hell of it now...

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #17 on: 19 May 2020, 19:04:08 »
Constant motion and ranged attack, right?

OK, I present the Bokken, so named, because I envision it as a Kuritan mini-Warhammer, meant to be deceptively dangerous.  Thirty tons, XL engine for a base movement of 8/12, which TSM increases to 9/14 when active.  Here's where things get tricky:

First, it's got Null Sig.  That should piss off your Republic neighbors, but it also generates 10 heat by its lonesome.  The Bokken's got 11 DHS, which gives it a dissipation of 22.

Primary weapons are arm-mounted light PPCs.  Together, they're 10 heat, with running putting you at 12 heat.  They're 18-hex range weapons, which gives you standoff capabilities.  Null sig plus both LPPCs plus running has you heat neutral.

Backing up the light PPCs for close-in work are twin ERMLs.  These have the same heat generation as your light PPCs, so end up being an even swap: both ERMLs plus running is also 12 heat, so you're still heat neutral firing them, running, and keeping null sig up.

Now, if you get close enough where null sig isn't helping?  Drop null sig, fire both LPPCs and both ERMLs, keep running, and you're *still* at 22 heat, keeping you heat neutral.

So, how do you get to +9 heat in the first place?

The twin ERSLs are needed here.  Run, fire both ERSLs, both LPPCs and one ERML, with null sig active.  That's 2 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 31 heat, and you dissipate 22 heat, ergo you're 9 heat over.  It's obviously more complicated if null sig is ever non-functional, requiring 3 turns to build up to 9 heat (turn 1-2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 3: 2 LPPCs, 1 ERML, 2 ERSLs, run).

Note it's completely possible to put the hands back on the 'Mech.  There are exactly two free criticals on the Bokken, one in each arm.  I was trying to encourage the pilot to keep their distance, in order to shoot and scoot.

Code: [Select]
Bokken BKN-1K

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     2 ER Medium Laser
     2 Light PPC
     2 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 7,411,950 C-bills

Type: Bokken
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,283

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XL                  6
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              11 [22]                 1
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  104                   6.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        14   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  4     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Small Laser                 CT        1        2       0.5   
Null Signature System     CT/RT/LT/RA/LA/RL/LL1/1/1/1/1/1/1    -       0.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        3        -       1.0   
2 Triple Strength Myomers  RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Medium Laser                RT        1        5       1.0   
Light PPC                      LA        2        5       3.0   
Double Heat Sink               LT        3        -       1.0   
2 Triple Strength Myomers  RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Medium Laser                LT        1        5       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Small Laser                 HD        1        2       0.5   
Light PPC                      RA        2        5       3.0   
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Cannonshop

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #18 on: 20 May 2020, 10:37:33 »
Constant motion and ranged attack, right?

OK, I present the Bokken, so named, because I envision it as a Kuritan mini-Warhammer, meant to be deceptively dangerous.  Thirty tons, XL engine for a base movement of 8/12, which TSM increases to 9/14 when active.  Here's where things get tricky:

First, it's got Null Sig.  That should piss off your Republic neighbors, but it also generates 10 heat by its lonesome.  The Bokken's got 11 DHS, which gives it a dissipation of 22.

Primary weapons are arm-mounted light PPCs.  Together, they're 10 heat, with running putting you at 12 heat.  They're 18-hex range weapons, which gives you standoff capabilities.  Null sig plus both LPPCs plus running has you heat neutral.

Backing up the light PPCs for close-in work are twin ERMLs.  These have the same heat generation as your light PPCs, so end up being an even swap: both ERMLs plus running is also 12 heat, so you're still heat neutral firing them, running, and keeping null sig up.

Now, if you get close enough where null sig isn't helping?  Drop null sig, fire both LPPCs and both ERMLs, keep running, and you're *still* at 22 heat, keeping you heat neutral.

So, how do you get to +9 heat in the first place?

The twin ERSLs are needed here.  Run, fire both ERSLs, both LPPCs and one ERML, with null sig active.  That's 2 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 31 heat, and you dissipate 22 heat, ergo you're 9 heat over.  It's obviously more complicated if null sig is ever non-functional, requiring 3 turns to build up to 9 heat (turn 1-2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 3: 2 LPPCs, 1 ERML, 2 ERSLs, run).

Note it's completely possible to put the hands back on the 'Mech.  There are exactly two free criticals on the Bokken, one in each arm.  I was trying to encourage the pilot to keep their distance, in order to shoot and scoot.

Code: [Select]
Bokken BKN-1K

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 240 XL
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     2 ER Medium Laser
     2 Light PPC
     2 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 7,411,950 C-bills

Type: Bokken
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 1,283

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        240 XL                  6
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              11 [22]                 1
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  104                   6.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        14   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               7         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  4     
     R/L Arm                 5         10   
     R/L Leg                 7         14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Small Laser                 CT        1        2       0.5   
Null Signature System     CT/RT/LT/RA/LA/RL/LL1/1/1/1/1/1/1    -       0.0   
Double Heat Sink               RT        3        -       1.0   
2 Triple Strength Myomers  RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Medium Laser                RT        1        5       1.0   
Light PPC                      LA        2        5       3.0   
Double Heat Sink               LT        3        -       1.0   
2 Triple Strength Myomers  RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Medium Laser                LT        1        5       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RL/LL 2/2/1/1    -       0.0   
ER Small Laser                 HD        1        2       0.5   
Light PPC                      RA        2        5       3.0   
:thumbsup:
The core rules for interacting with me:

1.) I am not a moderator, game developer, member of Cryptic staff, relative of any members of cryptic staff, not close friends with anyone involved with the game, not a distributor of product, not an employee, employer, professional reviewer, or member of any powerful conspiracies.  What I think is my own and has no impact on the Battletech franchise in any way, shape, or form.

2) If you don't like something I've said, refer to rule 1.  If you do, god help you poor soul, you're screwed up.

kindalas

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  • Posts: 402
Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #19 on: 24 May 2020, 16:40:57 »
Constant motion and ranged attack, right?

OK, I present the Bokken, so named, because I envision it as a Kuritan mini-Warhammer, meant to be deceptively dangerous.  Thirty tons, XL engine for a base movement of 8/12, which TSM increases to 9/14 when active.  Here's where things get tricky:

First, it's got Null Sig.  That should piss off your Republic neighbors, but it also generates 10 heat by its lonesome.  The Bokken's got 11 DHS, which gives it a dissipation of 22.

Primary weapons are arm-mounted light PPCs.  Together, they're 10 heat, with running putting you at 12 heat.  They're 18-hex range weapons, which gives you standoff capabilities.  Null sig plus both LPPCs plus running has you heat neutral.

Backing up the light PPCs for close-in work are twin ERMLs.  These have the same heat generation as your light PPCs, so end up being an even swap: both ERMLs plus running is also 12 heat, so you're still heat neutral firing them, running, and keeping null sig up.

Now, if you get close enough where null sig isn't helping?  Drop null sig, fire both LPPCs and both ERMLs, keep running, and you're *still* at 22 heat, keeping you heat neutral.

So, how do you get to +9 heat in the first place?

The twin ERSLs are needed here.  Run, fire both ERSLs, both LPPCs and one ERML, with null sig active.  That's 2 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 31 heat, and you dissipate 22 heat, ergo you're 9 heat over.  It's obviously more complicated if null sig is ever non-functional, requiring 3 turns to build up to 9 heat (turn 1-2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 3: 2 LPPCs, 1 ERML, 2 ERSLs, run).

Note it's completely possible to put the hands back on the 'Mech.  There are exactly two free criticals on the Bokken, one in each arm.  I was trying to encourage the pilot to keep their distance, in order to shoot and scoot.

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Bokken BKN-1K


Crap this one kicks my design right out of contention.

Hellraiser

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #20 on: 29 May 2020, 20:37:27 »
So, how do you get to +9 heat in the first place?

The twin ERSLs are needed here.  Run, fire both ERSLs, both LPPCs and one ERML, with null sig active.  That's 2 + 2 + 2 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 10 = 31 heat, and you dissipate 22 heat, ergo you're 9 heat over.  It's obviously more complicated if null sig is ever non-functional, requiring 3 turns to build up to 9 heat (turn 1-2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 2: 2 ERML, 2 LPPCs, 2 ERSLs, run; turn 3: 2 LPPCs, 1 ERML, 2 ERSLs, run).

1.  I love this mech.  For the most part.
2.  This part about +9 is where you lost me.
3.  Suggestion for even more deadliness - Remove ERSLs - Add TAG  ( & hands because, utility )
4.  9 Heat is fine w/ 4 guns, you just WALK that turn  ;)

And now every turn this mech is also an added danger as its spotting for LRM/Arti fire.

But over all,  I like it,  a lot.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #21 on: 29 May 2020, 21:42:01 »
1.  I love this mech.  For the most part.

Thanks.  For the most part. ;)

Quote
2.  This part about +9 is where you lost me.

You need to stay at +9 heat every single turn in order to keep Triple Strength Myomer running, which you want to do, because it bumps your speed from 8/12 to 9/14.  We generally don't care about the extra physical damage because we don't want to get into physical combat if we can help it because we're a 30-ton 'Mech.  If we have to, fine, we can deal with that, but we want to avoid it whenever possible.  You want to keep running, rather than walking, because speed is life on a 30-ton 'Mech.

OK, your base dissipation is 22, thanks to having 11 double heat sinks, right?  So, Null Sig alone generates 10 heat, running generates 2 more, which together puts you at 12 heat.  Firing both PPCs puts you at 22 heat, which would be heat neutral.  That's what you'll normally be doing anyway, and this keeps you dissipating whatever you generate each turn.  If you get close enough that the ERPPCs aren't doing it, then you switch to the ERMLs and do the same.  If you really need to fire more guns, then you turn off Null Sig, fire both LPPCs and both ERMLs while running, and do the same.

So, how do you get to +9 heat in the first place?  You can't activate your TSM until you do that, and you want to do that because it lets you run faster, and more speed is more life.

Firing a single ERML on top of your normal 2 LPPCs and running with Null Sig puts you at +5 heat over dissipation, then firing two ERSLs, at 2 heat each, adds another +4, which puts you at +9 heat over your dissipation, which is what you need to activate the Triple Strength Myomer.  Congrats, TSM is running, so now you're moving 9/14 and, if you have to kick someone, you're kicking for 12 points like you were a 60-ton 'Mech.

If for some reason Null Sig isn't running, or Null Sig isn't allowed in your game, and you need to rip it out, you activate your TSM over three turns instead of a single turn.  Here's where I made some errors, so here's a revamp:

Turn 1: 2 LPPCs, 2 ERMLs, 2 ERSLs, walk -> 25 heat - 22 dissipation = +3 heat
Turn 2: 2 LPPCs, 2 ERMLs, 2 ERSLs, run -> 26 heat + 3 residual heat - 22 dissipation = +7 heat
Turn 3 : 2 LPPCs, 2 ERML, 1 ERSLs, run -> 24 heat + 7 residual heat - 22 dissipation = +9 heat
Turn 4 onward: TSM is active, fire 2 LPPCs, 2 ERML and run.

Quote
3.  Suggestion for even more deadliness - Remove ERSLs - Add TAG  ( & hands because, utility )

Nope.  No way to activate Triple Strength Myomer then without shutting off heat sinks and other weirdness.  We don't want to do that.  As for hands, that's a personal preference, though I didn't bother because I envisioned it as a mini-Warhammer.

Quote
4.  9 Heat is fine w/ 4 guns, you just WALK that turn  ;)

And now every turn this mech is also an added danger as its spotting for LRM/Arti fire.

But over all,  I like it,  a lot.

In order to use TSM, you need to be at +9 heat and stay there.  Go to +10, bad things happen.  Go to +8, you lose TSM.  So, on one turn and one turn only, you need to go to +9 heat, and on every subsequent turns, you have to balance the 22 heat you dissipate exactly.

"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Hellraiser

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #22 on: 29 May 2020, 23:56:46 »
In order to use TSM, you need to be at +9 heat and stay there.  Go to +10, bad things happen.  Go to +8, you lose TSM.  So, on one turn and one turn only, you need to go to +9 heat, and on every subsequent turns, you have to balance the 22 heat you dissipate exactly.

Oh, I'm aware, but I don't think your getting what I was saying.

The 9 heat isn't "Confusing" I was saying that is where I lost the love since I see no need for the ERSLs.   See Below.



Activation = 10 Null Sig, 10 LPPCx2,  10 ERMLx2,  +  1 WALK = 31 Heat - 22 Vent = 9 Final

My point is you don't need the ERSL's if you just slow down to Walk for 1 turn & alpha w/ Null Sig on.

Then every other turn follows your already prescribed RUN + 20   :thumbsup:

And the TAG is heatless, so its free every turn to spot for more boom boom

« Last Edit: 29 May 2020, 23:58:37 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #23 on: 30 May 2020, 00:14:50 »
But, but, that makes no sense! You'd have to walk! :D
"“Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.” -- Stephen Hawking

Hellraiser

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Re: Design challenge: Light
« Reply #24 on: 30 May 2020, 00:21:39 »
I know, I know, the sacrifices that would have to be made are horrible   :o
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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