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Author Topic: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?  (Read 4418 times)

Black_Knyght

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Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« on: 27 February 2016, 23:01:49 »
Does anyone know the stats for this mech?

A friend of mine just received one  that he'd ordered from eBay, but I've never heard of it and can't find anything on it on Sarna.net.

The_Caveman

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #1 on: 28 February 2016, 01:01:49 »
For some reason Microsoft decided to totally change the look of the Hellhound/Conjurer for MW4. And the loadout is total made-up bollocks like all the other MW4 variants. I don't see why they didn't just call it the Black Lanner since at least that 'Mech resembles the art.

Anyway there is no official BT version of the MW4 Hellhound. The actual Hellhound (secretly the Wolverine IIC) can be found on Sarna.net under "Conjurer".
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Suralin

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #2 on: 28 February 2016, 01:15:42 »
You can see some of the artist's early attempts here; "C" on the drawing seems to be his attempt to do a proper Conjurer before the new design became its own thing.

Quote
it was a combination of the original design looking too anime to fit the game aesthetic and we also needed more bird legged mechs to round out the overall look of the mechs and the Hellhound stats fit what we were looking for.

Still not sure whether the design change was his call or Cyberlore's, tho.


Anyway, the Hellhound's stock loadout in MW4:M was 2x cerLLAS, cLBX-10, and cSSRM-6, and it had moderate speed (the Uziel outpaced it IIRC).

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #3 on: 28 February 2016, 01:55:25 »
It ran at a 6/9 in game and the customization for it was interesting: you could also boost the speed up to 7/11 and if you got it on Halloran V early it was god.

That being said I usually dropped the SRMs in favor of a Light Gauss Rifle upgrade , more ammo armor DHS or speed and just sniped people while my lancemates took care of everyone.

But back on topic, yeah it's kinda non-canon like a couple other mechs from the released patches from that game that I would love to have.

The_Caveman

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #4 on: 28 February 2016, 09:34:16 »
You can see some of the artist's early attempts here; "C" on the drawing seems to be his attempt to do a proper Conjurer before the new design became its own thing.

Still not sure whether the design change was his call or Cyberlore's, tho.


Anyway, the Hellhound's stock loadout in MW4:M was 2x cerLLAS, cLBX-10, and cSSRM-6, and it had moderate speed (the Uziel outpaced it IIRC).

Huh, I didn't realize it was David White who did the concept art for the MW4 expansions. The 'Mechs were so boxy I kinda figured it was Plog.

MW4 and its expansions always looked like Special Needs BattleTech to me. Microsoft must've been proud of themselves to produce a graphical step down from MW3 despite having 10 times the hardware budget.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #5 on: 29 February 2016, 06:03:57 »
A good chunk of the budget seems to have gone into the opening movie and various cutscenes. And live actors. The interface on the other hand was.. a throwback to MW2.

worktroll

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #6 on: 29 February 2016, 17:17:15 »
Huh, I didn't realize it was David White who did the concept art for the MW4 expansions. The 'Mechs were so boxy I kinda figured it was Plog.

MW4 and its expansions always looked like Special Needs BattleTech to me. Microsoft must've been proud of themselves to produce a graphical step down from MW3 despite having 10 times the hardware budget.

On the contrary, I much prefer David White's MW4 'Mechs over the current MWO designs - I find them overly fussy and "detail for the sake of detail". As always, personal taste is personal ;)
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Kojak

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #7 on: 29 February 2016, 19:16:39 »
I loved the MW4 Hellhound, it was my go-to 'Mech in that game back in the day. Unfortunately, there's no way to build it in Battletech without either drastically lowering the speed or armor, even if you leave it grossly undersinked or give it an XXL engine or both; believe me, I've tried.


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The_Caveman

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #8 on: 29 February 2016, 23:46:49 »
On the contrary, I much prefer David White's MW4 'Mechs over the current MWO designs - I find them overly fussy and "detail for the sake of detail". As always, personal taste is personal ;)

I agree about Alex's work, it's too busy.

Actually my favorite mecha game, aesthetically speaking, has always been Starsiege.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Black_Knyght

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #9 on: 04 March 2016, 17:35:09 »
I'm not familiar with Starsiege. Is it a miniatures game, or a computer game?

Suralin

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #10 on: 05 March 2016, 21:22:10 »
Computer game. Started off with EarthSiege, then expanded into StarSiege, then the better-known Tribes series got spun off from it.

IIRC Sierra had them all for free download a while ago. Dunno if that's still the case.


Hmm. I wonder if the Hellhound could fit its armament and keep 97kph speed if it had an XXL engine, though.

Brother Jim

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #11 on: 05 March 2016, 23:09:25 »
There was also the Starsiege: Rebellion miniature game released by Agents of Gaming in 1998.

http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/scf/rebellion.html


DragonKhan55

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #12 on: 10 January 2022, 18:13:12 »
I actually managed to create a viable one at 5/8 using an XL engine. 6/9 was out of the question though to keep the warload and the rest intact.

Code: [Select]
BATTLETECH
Medium BattleMech Technical Readout
Type: Hellhound
Technology Base: Clan / 3067
Ruleset: Standard (5th edition)
Tonnage: 50
Cost: 9,164,000 C-bills
Battle Value: 1,428
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: Endo Steel 2.5
Engine: 250 6.5
Type: Fusion XL
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 13 [26] 3.0
Gyro: Standard 3.0
Cockpit: 3.0
Armor Factor: 153 8.0
Internal
Structure Armor
Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 16 21
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 12/12 16/16
L/R Torso (rear) 6/6
L/R Arms 8/8 14/14
L/R Legs 12/12 22/22
Weapons and Ammo Location Crits Tons
ER Laser (Large) LA 1 4.0
ER Laser (Large) RT 1 4.0
LB 10-X AC RA 5 10.0
Streak SRM 6 LT 2 3.0
Ammo (LB 10-X) 10 RT 1 1.0
Ammo (LB 10-X) 10 RT 1 1.0
Ammo (SSRM 6) 15 LT 1 1.0

 
BattleForce 2
MP Damage PB/M/L Overheat Class
5 4/4/3 4 M
Armor/Structure Point Value Specials
4/3 15 -
Hellhound

    Mass: 50 tons
    Chassis: Endo Steel
    Power Plant: Magna 250 Fusion XL
    Cruising Speed: 54 kph
    Maximum Speed: 85 kph
    Advanced Motive: none
    Jump Jets: none
    Jump Capacity: none
    Armor: Ferro-Fiberous
    Cockpit: Standard
    Armament:
    ER Laser (Large)
    ER Laser (Large)
    LB 10-X AC
    Streak SRM 6
    Manufacturer: Clan
    Communications System: Standard
    Targeting & Tracking System: Standard

Overview

The Hellhound was an unexpected addition to the Jade Falcon Touman, a product of bad supply lines and desperate improvisation that led to a surprisingly capable medium battlemech.

Built on a Black Lanner chassis to start, the Hellhound was a result of a number Black Lanners going down due to engine hits during action against the ARDC and lacking the necessary 385-rated XL engines to bring them back up to speed.

Rather than let them loiter, Galaxy Commander James Malthus ordered his astechs to install a 250-rated XL engine instead and retrofit the weapon load to a fixed configuration.

Capabilities

Lowering the speed to a relatively slow (per Clan standards) 86 kph at a run, the Hellhound keeps the eight tons of Ferro Fibrous Armor as the Black Lanner but gains an impressive amount of podspace to work with. Two Series XII ER Large Lasers provide the long-range bunch for the mech out to extreme ranges, while in close a LB 10-X and a Streak SRM-6 rack allow for a warrior to exploit holes created in the enemy's armor. 13 heat sinks allow the Hellhound to stay perfectly equal firing both lasers on a run or fire one laser and the rest of the weapons without pause in-close.

Deployment

The Hellhound has seen action mainly with Garrison and Second Line clusters in the Occupation Zone and on raids in the ARDC so far, though some have been taken as isorla by Inner Sphere units and have spread as far as Solaris VII and the Federated Suns, with two being spotted on Talon/Wernke during pitched battles over Kallon Industries' mech factory.

shadowdancer

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #13 on: 11 January 2022, 23:41:04 »
Original stats: speed 6/9/6
fusion standard engine
Endo frame
10 double heat sinks
Lg. Pulse RA
2 ER Med. RT
2 Streak SRM 2 LT
Armor Ferro
head 9
torsos 14
center 23
arms 14
legs 24
rear is 5/7/5
Jump jets 2 in each torso R/C/L
« Last Edit: 11 January 2022, 23:49:42 by shadowdancer »
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Middcore

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #14 on: 12 January 2022, 00:00:06 »
Original stats: speed 6/9/6
fusion standard engine
Endo frame
10 double heat sinks
Lg. Pulse RA
2 ER Med. RT
2 Streak SRM 2 LT
Armor Ferro
head 9
torsos 14
center 23
arms 14
legs 24
rear is 5/7/5
Jump jets 2 in each torso R/C/L

I don't think the original canon stats for the Conjurer/Hellhound are in question. The MW4 'Mech with that name is a very different machine.

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #15 on: 12 January 2022, 09:50:29 »
Yeah, it was just Microsoft making stuff up.  I guess all the good names were taken :D  I like Dragon's idea that they were rebuilt Black Lanners - they do kinda look like it.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2022, 09:53:37 by BATTLEMASTER »
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Maingunnery

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #16 on: 12 January 2022, 10:21:20 »
Yeah, it was just Microsoft making stuff up.  I guess all the good names were taken :D  I like Dragon's idea that they were rebuilt Black Lanners - they do kinda look like it.
Personally I think they look more like the Cougar Omnimech, also the timeline would quite match if they were developed alongside each other.
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Middcore

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #17 on: 12 January 2022, 10:26:54 »
I like the idea that the MS!Hellhound is a quickie rebuild of something else, because all of Marthe Pryde's other shiny new post-Refusal War toys have falcon-y names except for the Cougar where they apparently didn't bother because it's just a revised Adder. The lack of a raptor name suggests to me that if we were to make up lore/fluff for it as a standalone design apart from the Conjurer, it's another "less prestigious" machine, possibly even second-line since it got a canine moniker.

Luciora

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #18 on: 12 January 2022, 10:46:44 »
For me, not everything introduced in a video game should be canonized into the actual game. 

Especially if it involves copious amounts of explanation to properly represent a one off thing from a game.

Its great things like the HBS Bullshark, MWO Corsair, MW4 Hellhound have fans, but you also end up with crap like the Bombast laser, which really serve no purpose other than "oh we wanted something for video game players to feel more powerful with"  using a charge up mechanic.   Incidentally, the PPCs ended up with the capacitor and not the lasers, which make more sense, technology-wise.

I am also aware of the canonicity statement regarding MWO Hero units made by Weismann, but frankly some of the decisions made for a good number of the mechs make no sense in the timeline they are presented in, as they become anachronistic or extremely out of place.
« Last Edit: 12 January 2022, 11:03:21 by Luciora »

Maingunnery

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Re: Mechwarrior 4 Hellhound?
« Reply #19 on: 12 January 2022, 10:54:32 »
I like the idea that the MS!Hellhound is a quickie rebuild of something else, because all of Marthe Pryde's other shiny new post-Refusal War toys have falcon-y names except for the Cougar where they apparently didn't bother because it's just a revised Adder. The lack of a raptor name suggests to me that if we were to make up lore/fluff for it as a standalone design apart from the Conjurer, it's another "less prestigious" machine, possibly even second-line since it got a canine moniker.
An option is to have the same kind of back story as the Iron Cheetah, a quick design intended to be brought into production using available parts from various Clan sources and assembled in local factories.

Falcon pride might have gotten in the way for it to be deployed as it would handle a bit like a low-budget Stormcrow, having some 'prototypes' fall into the hands of Mercenaries (MW4:M) would really put the nail in the coffin of such a design. But I can see someone reintroducing it in the ILClan Era, but that depends upon who captures Olivetti Weaponry (Sudeten).
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