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Author Topic: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ  (Read 20205 times)

Joel47

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Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« on: 03 December 2019, 12:52:54 »
I'm starting the new year with a new campaign, using the Battletech Missions campaign by Jamez “Bootcamp” Kirtley.

First game will be Jan 4 at Game Depot AZ, starting at 1pm.

Campaign Synopsis:  Similar to Shadowrun Missions, this campaign will be a series of shorter battles that string together to form a story arc. Players need not play in every game! Each battle will give participating players C-bills and XP, the amounts depending on mission success and damage taken. Spend XP and C-bills to upgrade your pilot and mech.

Mission 01-01: Pirate Defense
Shelby Drop Port, Memphis, Crucis March, Federated Suns
June 27, 3025
"Okay mechwarriors, listen up. Welcome to Memphis, a nowhere world at the far end of the Federated Suns. This part of the ‘suns is always having trouble with periphery pirates, but this time some local noble or another managed to dig up enough funds to hire us to come handle their problem for them. Fortunately for us, Memphis has a regular food shipment delivered around the end of every month, and it looks like the pirates have taken the bait. Last night at about 02:00 we got jump signature at a nearby pirate point.We expect them at the Lake Aswan drop port any minute now.Your job is simple: stop their attack, and make them regret coming here to Memphis. If you can capture one, great -- we’d love to know more about their operation. The good news? You’ve got the drop on them and have plenty of time to get into position. The bad news? These psychos look like a bunch of weirdos out of an early information age flatvid. Watch yourselves out there!"

Date & Time:  Saturday, January 4th. We are scheduled to start at 1:00pm; last round will be called at about 6:00pm.
Campaign Rules: https://bit.ly/35WSBYB

    Pre-generated pilots+mechs will be available.
    Unit selection summary: Purchase a light mech from the list in the rules.
    Pilot skills: G4/P5. Special abilities can be purchased at the start (or you can save the XP so you can improve skills sooner).
    If we end up with too many players for a single game (7+) we'll split into two, with a player tapped to be GM. Being a GM earns C-bills and XP! (More than a losing player, less than a winning player.)

Terrain and setup description: The battle will be held on four mapsheets depicting a coastal drop port.
 
Special Rules: With a few exceptions, only Total Warfare rules will be used.

    There is no “edge of the world.” If a mech is up against a map edge, the three hexes that would be surrounding the mech off the board are now legal hexes for movement; occupying any of those hexes opens up more hexes, etc.
    The following rules from Tactical Operations will be used: Floating Crits, Sprinting, Evading, Crawling, Careful Stand, Firing When Down, ECCM, Expanded Backward Movement, Expanded Stacking, Gauss Shut Off, Active Probe Targeting, Retractable Blades.


Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #1 on: 07 December 2019, 22:26:03 »
This sounds interesting but I have questions.


1.  Where is the Spider-5V?
   Its IS Gen but its not on the list, meanwhile the FWL Faction roster has the Davion model Spider-5D as an option.
  That seems very odd to me.


2.  So do you only ever control a single mech in the fight?    No added mechs,  no tanks/infantry?


3.  How do you buy a bigger mech?
   Is it only from whatever you salvage on missions and the 2 factional choices?


4.  Speaking of Factional Choices.
    HOW were those mechs chosen?
   Why are some of them Standard Tech v/s Intro Tech.
   Why are some of them extinct in the timeline or completely don't match the fluff.  (Exterminator-4A,  or Mercs getting Wyverns)
   Why are the choices really broken & unbalanced?   (Kurita gets a Stalker & their improved Crusader-K but Davion has the Crappy Longbow instead of the GOOD one that they actually produced & the standard Rifleman/Warhammer instead of their 3 House variants?)
   Liao has some totally sick choices btw in terms of balance.


Anyway, that's just a few things I've seeing that seem unbalanced.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #2 on: 08 December 2019, 09:41:50 »
Note that since I didn't write these rules, questions as to "why" are just my guesses.

  • The list of starting mechs only includes affordable ones. The Spider-5V costs 2.9M C-bills. The -5D is likely an error; I'll let the author know. (Also, the faction choices in the "starting" mech list include several costing over 2.5M C-bills, which is also likely an error.)
  • Usually, yes. Some scenarios allow players to optionally play a tank or some infantry alongside their mech. It does make for simplistic games, but it allows for player-vs-GM without having the GM swamped with units.
  • Correct. I'm not sure how that will work out, but since others have run this campaign I'm willing to see how it plays out before I start tweaking it.
  • If I had to guess, they were listed variants in TRO3039. Unless I'm missing something, other than the Experimental-tech Ravens the only Standard Tech is on the Comstar list; I'm guessing that's their faction ability. (That said, it may be an error; I'll ask.) As for the Exterminator, it's available. Of course, MUL says it's a FWL mech in that era. But that Wyvern is very much a merc mech in that era: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3599/wyvern-wve-6n
« Last Edit: 08 December 2019, 09:51:09 by Joel47 »

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #3 on: 09 December 2019, 02:33:42 »
I feel like the MUL is wrong.

That Exterminator last I checked was produced by Davion & it was only a short production run that was phased out in favor of the Wolverine.

I thought it & the Mercury were 2 of the mechs not included in one of the TRO editions because they were extinct even though the rest of the 2750 mechs were included.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering the fluff.  I'll have to go pull out a TRO.


Seems like since you have a C-Bill limit at Start & we have factions on the MUL that it would just be easier to say,  you have IS Gen access & if you choose a faction then you have Faction access.

The C-Bills & the Faction make sense as to what you can choose.   Not a fan of the only 2 mechs choice since from what I'm seeing, they are not even close to balanced in capability.

« Last Edit: 09 December 2019, 02:43:43 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Insaniac99

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #4 on: 09 December 2019, 12:17:07 »
I feel like the MUL is wrong.

That Exterminator last I checked was produced by Davion & it was only a short production run that was phased out in favor of the Wolverine.

I thought it & the Mercury were 2 of the mechs not included in one of the TRO editions because they were extinct even though the rest of the 2750 mechs were included.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering the fluff.  I'll have to go pull out a TRO.


There was some mild Retconning back when 3039 was published, to make a lot more star league only mechs more accessible.

The Exterminator 4A is a downtech mech first published in 3039, mech created in 3007.

Mercury also received a downtech version, first done in 2810, I think that was also first published  in  RS:3039.

Seems like since you have a C-Bill limit at Start & we have factions on the MUL that it would just be easier to say,  you have IS Gen access & if you choose a faction then you have Faction access.

The C-Bills & the Faction make sense as to what you can choose.   Not a fan of the only 2 mechs choice since from what I'm seeing, they are not even close to balanced in capability.

By my understanding of the rules, you get access to the general list at the start (only lights), and whatever faction mechs you have.  You are authorized to buy any mechs you have on that combined list at any time without salvaging additional ones as long as you have the c-bills and the ability to pilot the weight class.

  My take was that the faction balance, such as it is, came in the combined set of the faction ability and all the mechs available -- Comstar has some amazing mechs but no ability for example.  I also feel that some of the factions have great early mechs but meh late mechs or vice versa.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #5 on: 09 December 2019, 22:47:15 »
The Exterminator 4A is a downtech mech first published in 3039, mech created in 3007.

Mercury also received a downtech version, first done in 2810, I think that was also first published  in  RS:3039.

Actually, the Exterminator, Mercury, & Crockett are not in TRO3039 at all.

They are specifically mentioned as being completely extinct by the 4th SW.

The downgrade versions were first published in TRO3025r IIRC.


Quote
By my understanding of the rules, you get access to the general list at the start (only lights), and whatever faction mechs you have.  You are authorized to buy any mechs you have on that combined list at any time without salvaging additional ones as long as you have the c-bills and the ability to pilot the weight class.

  My take was that the faction balance, such as it is, came in the combined set of the faction ability and all the mechs available -- Comstar has some amazing mechs but no ability for example.  I also feel that some of the factions have great early mechs but meh late mechs or vice versa.

Yeah the "Starter List" that is attached to the rules is not actually IS-General from the MUL.

For instance All Flavors of Locust & Wasp are listed in the Starter list, but not the Spider-5V which is an actual "IS-General" mech.

Some of the factions get very few "decent" mech variants on the house list,  others get nearly a full sheet of them.  That is one of the issues I'm seeing.

I'd like to just see the mechs not on some rules page but purely go by Faction List & C-Bills.  I think that would be far more fair than restricting each house to 2 Heavy Mechs which near as I can tell have ZERO balance in their choices from house to house.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

jzkirtley

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #6 on: 24 December 2019, 14:01:10 »
The Unit list I'm afraid actually has developed a bit over the years as the rules have. Originally the starting C-Bill allotment was 2 million, not 2.5, so a number of 'mechs whose cost is over that aren't included even if they probably should be. I'll take a look and revamp that at some point.

The Faction specific 'mechs for Medium weight and up are actually more flavor than anything else. My expectation is that most 'mechs will be purchased from salvage. But to be honest, few campaigns (other than the one in Boston) have really gotten that far - I'm running second season in Philly now, where Boston (where I started the whole thing) is up to 4 - and that's slowed due to my moving and our original venue closing.

I'm definitely all ears when it comes to feedback on the initial 'mechs. The original list was simply me doing a filtered search against MUL for IS general 'mechs under 2 million. The faction specific ones were partly from memory and partly from a 3025 random unit list I found online (so it may be somewhat inaccurate). I know my initial list was missing the fire javelin, so it might need some tweaking.

Most of the players I've had are newbies who don't know a Marauder from a Wasp, so I haven't gotten a lot of complaints about initial 'mechs. Heck, 95% of my players these days are using pregens until they upgrade anyway.

So yes, please feel free to give me feedback on 'mech selections! I'll take some time soon and revamp them. I'll do another revision of the rules before con season this coming summer, but I'll likely try to get a pass in before then.

Insaniac99

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #7 on: 24 December 2019, 14:19:54 »
I'll do another revision of the rules before con season this coming summer, but I'll likely try to get a pass in before then.

If you want a second set of eyes before you publish, please let me know.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #8 on: 24 December 2019, 21:02:20 »
Let me just say, nitpics on faction balance aside,  I really like what you've done here.

I look forward to checking it out next month.




My initial thoughts, now that we have the MUL, would be to just open it all up to anything that is IS-GEN + Your Faction w/ C-Bills being the major limiting factor.

Save's on printed space in the rules & its a free online public source for easy double checking by GMs.




I was unsure about only having single mechs as a long term option for players who eventually want to play with more toys & run a full force.

But I think this "single mech" campaign would make for great Month-2-Month option broken up by some "Historical" or WW-Events each year that allow for larger forces to be fielded.


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #9 on: 04 January 2020, 22:55:36 »
That was a fun romp, really enjoyed it.  Poor Ian, though, he failed so many of his PSRs.
It's been so long since I made it to a game, a bunch of people I didn't recognize even if I knew most of the ones at my table.

I went though some of the SPAs after the game thinking of how best to maximize my already excellent maneuverability.  Speed Demon is a bit disappointing, can't attack so might as well sprint, and 2 additional MP isn't that much when I can sprint 16 already.  On the other hand, Maneuvering Ace Seems useful, there's been several occasions a single hex shift when running would have been useful, especially for this game where turning can be dangerous, and the SPA also helps avoid skids.  Combine that with Natural grace and I can run anywhere and point my weapons at anything.

So for the game itself, we managed to turn the firestarter into metal confetti after touching off the ammo, the Panther got its gyro blown out after being knocked over a couple times and getting a side kicked off and the Assassin found itself surrounded by locusts unable to escape due to hip damage.  The Wasp did manage to escape. 3 of the infantry got turned into a fine mist thanks to the claymores taped to the locusts' legs, and one of the APCs got disabled trying to escape while the other made it out with a flat tire, and the last infantry platoon escaped with 2/3rds of its men.

On our side I think the only major damage I can remember was one of the locusts getting its armor peeled off, but it only took a point or two of internal damage.

Like I said, poor Ian with those PSRs.  First his mechs get knocked down and the Assassin takes a nap due to a failed seatbelt check, then the undamaged APC skids out and loses a couple tires.  The Panther had to try to stand up twice (and I think the Assassin might have also had that issue, but can't 100% remember), and a later small laser to the face put the panther pilot asleep, though that didn't matter so much when it lost its gyro afterwards.  That's on top of the fact those mechs got beat on quite hard having to do PSRs in the first place due to taking so much damage.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #10 on: 05 January 2020, 00:42:31 »
Yes much fun was had.

Turn by Turn as I recall it for our (West) table.

Enemy Pirates enter from the South on Turn-1 with Objective Building being on the SW Map but close to the overall middle area.
  (4 Mechs [Assassin-21, Panther-8Z, Firestarter-9H, Wasp-1D], 2 Wheeled APC 10 ton model, 4 Mechanized-Wheeled MG Platoons, 10 men each)

Merc force of 5 mechs (Mercs/Davion) on defense scattered over a 4 map area.    (Javelin-10F,  Firefly,  Locust-3V,  2x Locust-1E)
  (Actually more like just N &/or E of the target building in some cover.  I don't think the anyone ever used the NE map all day short of the 1/2 row hexes that joined the 4 maps.)


Turn-1  Minimal Fire.  I think 4 Infantry died in the open to a single LRM-5 rocket.

Turn-2  Firestarter, APCs, Assassin all move towards the Storage Depot.  Both mechs get knocked over.  (Locust-3V headshots the Assassin for a nappy check, Firestarter failed PSR.)

Turn-3  Javelin uses special ability to attack Firestarter while down, rips leg off.  Then Firefly blows up MG ammo & FS is roasted.  Locust-1E tanks all fire from Wasp, Panther, & Platoons as both Locust-1Es detonate A-Pods on top of the infantry & 3 full platoons disappear in a fine pink mist.  Locust-3V attempts to aimed shot the Assassin but fails to rip the leg off.  Panther falls from Locust combined fire.
1 APC manages to skid itself into 1/2 MP.

Turn-4  Pirates start to retreat & are pursued by merc mechs.  Ranged fire all around.  The "tank"-1E retreats to avoid more fire.

Turn-5  Panther is dropped again & Javelin blows out Gyro to ensure it doesn't get back.  Locusts move to block APCs from escaping the board & immobilize the more mobile one.

Turn-6  Wasp, 1/2 MP APC, & Last 6 infantry troopers of 1 platoon escape off the board.  Assassin is surrounded & 1/2 MP & surrenders.


Final Tally.

All 5 merc mechs are damaged but none "Heavy" so full pay.
Panther & Assassin are Salvaged
3 Pirate MW are captured.



I was really concerned the 3 larger GM mechs were going to smash us with Speed, Armor, & Firepower, but as noted, the GM dice were horrible when it came to Sleepy Time & Piloting rolls.



For the East Table I don't know much.   (Player force was 2 Panther-9R's & 3 mixed Commandos?)

2+ Commandos destroyed by the "Panther-8Z of DOOM" to ammo hits.

Firestarter & Wasp salvaged.

Beyond that I'm not sure how it all finished up other than MANY infernos were launched by the mercs (Kurita/Liao)
« Last Edit: 05 January 2020, 00:46:27 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #11 on: 05 January 2020, 01:48:37 »
Rules Question for Davion Special Ability. (Tactical Genius)

How is 2nd half of that supposed to work?

1:  We don't ever use Forced Initiative.

2:  Even if we did, I really don't see how it works.  Forced Initiative is a bonus to next turns Initiative Roll based on # of mechs killed this turn.  I think that rule might be designed for teams using Individual Initiative Rolls?  That would allow the TG hero move before/after they normally would.  But since we do Team Initiative I'm not seeing how it works.

I would propose a change to it.

Option-A.  1/Scenario the TG char can seize initiative like in Banking Initiative & just auto-win for the team.

Option-B.  The TG char alone can move outside initiative order 1/game, so if the ratio would be 10-5 like it was today, for 1 turn, its done as 10-4 & then the TG char moves last after everyone.


Thoughts?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #12 on: 05 January 2020, 16:55:16 »
By "forced" initiative, the rules mean this (from the GM packet, which you don't have access to, causing the confusion):
Quote
Because of the time limit, it is suggested that initiative be handled randomly. This means that when it is a team’s turn to move, the unit that actually has to move should be determined randomly. One very efficient way to handle this is to have a set of playing cards assigned to each player or NPC unit. You then use a different set of cards for the players and for the OPFOR. For example, Dave’s Locust could be the Ace of Spades, while the bad guy Hunchback is the King of Diamonds. Keep a separate stack for the players and for the bad guys, and when it’s one side’s turn to go, select a card (or more) from the respective stack.
I'll use that if initiative becomes a problem (either by the "who moves" decision taking too long, or it becoming acrimonious). Even without it, I think winning ties is useful; however, I could see replacing the second part with something like the following: "Once per scenario you may add +2 to your team's initiative roll. This bonus must be declared before the roll is made."

As for my table, four of the five PC mechs carried infernos. This made very short work of the infantry, because while there was more cover on my table's maps, all it took was one turn not in it for a stand of infantry to die horribly. On the other hand, the pirates had the Panther of Doom: Round 1, it ripped the large laser off a Commando. Round 2, it walked a floating crit into the left torso of a different Commando, detonating the ammo. Round 3, it detonated the third Commando. Round 4, it damaged the hip of the first Commando. Fortunately for the PCs, it couldn't hit anything that wasn't a Commando, because much more of that and it would have been game over.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #13 on: 05 January 2020, 18:45:27 »
Combat intuition seems much more useful for the same price and no faction restriction.

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #14 on: 05 January 2020, 18:58:59 »
Remember, though, that the faction ability comes with an extra boost -- it doesn't count against the number of SAs  you can have.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #15 on: 05 January 2020, 19:33:23 »
By "forced" initiative, the rules mean this (from the GM packet, which you don't have access to, causing the confusion):I'll use that if initiative becomes a problem (either by the "who moves" decision taking too long, or it becoming acrimonious). Even without it, I think winning ties is useful; however, I could see replacing the second part with something like the following: "Once per scenario you may add +2 to your team's initiative roll. This bonus must be declared before the roll is made."

I totally agree ties is useful.
The problem is its unlikely to happen even once a game.
Sure we get them, but how often?  Every 2 games?
And then you still have a 50/50 chance of winning the 2nd roll off.
So how often does it happen that it actually effects the results?   Every 4th game?
And how often when that initiative turn was a critical one?  (Ties on first 2 & maybe final round of play tend to be insignificant compared to say Rounds 3-5+)
When you look at the other faction abilities they have something that is useful at Every Single Game,  that Merc one is awesome & was hard not to go with.


My only suggestion would be to remove the "Before" part so it still leaves some "take the initiative" effect in there like the first rule has, it allows you to take an action that you know is having an effect.
When its "before" its just a random gamble still that may or may not have even mattered since you might have rolled a 9 to their 4.  Yeah your weighting the random role but you still might not have needed to & its wasted then.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #16 on: 05 January 2020, 20:38:23 »
The Tactical Genius from Campaign Ops is s straight up reroll

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #17 on: 05 January 2020, 23:04:28 »
Next game will be Saturday, Feb 1 at Game Depot AZ.

GM pay will increase (retroactively).
No non-standard ammo. I hadn't read future scenarios and didn't realize even infernos are supposed to be mission rewards. (But the good news is everyone will get some for the next battle.)

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #18 on: 05 January 2020, 23:16:05 »
Uh Joel, your email says January 4.  Might want to send a correction

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #19 on: 05 January 2020, 23:34:28 »
(sigh) I post these things in four places, increasing the odds a mistake slips through.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #20 on: 06 January 2020, 00:00:12 »
The subject line says February 1, It's in the description is has January

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #21 on: 06 January 2020, 12:31:15 »
The Tactical Genius from Campaign Ops is s straight up reroll

That works too.

Its less about the bonus than it is about using it when you know you really need it.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #22 on: 06 January 2020, 12:37:48 »
Next game will be Saturday, Feb 1 at Game Depot AZ.

GM pay will increase (retroactively).
No non-standard ammo. I hadn't read future scenarios and didn't realize even infernos are supposed to be mission rewards. (But the good news is everyone will get some for the next battle.)

I also gave the rules for those Improvised A-Pods a more thorough read.

Apparently you only got to have ONE of them in the battle, not all 3.

So the move where we used 2 in the same turn shouldn't have been possible.  That said of the 2 die rolls (4&5), 1 of them was enough to kill the entire platoon (5), so we have a 50/50 chance of pulling off the same results with the other leaving only 2 troops alive.

The way I'm reading it is we can use a total of 3 of them over the course of the campaign & after each 1 is detonated or destroyed on the leg from damage, then we check of 1 box.

So we can use them in the future till they are all gone, but only 1 special item per game per mech.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #23 on: 06 January 2020, 12:39:43 »
That's correct. I wasn't running at your table, so I didn't catch that. No one at my table used them, as they were relying on the (magically appearing) inferno rounds.

I do think you can take A-pods and infernos at the same time, though.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #24 on: 06 January 2020, 12:50:32 »
IDK, I'm just going by the special tech rules that say 1/game.  Not sure if ammo counts or not.  And not that my mech can use SRM's anyway.  I'll have to think about having an SRM rack in 2021 when I can afford to upgrade :)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #25 on: 06 January 2020, 13:23:05 »
Ah, there it is:
Quote
you can only bring at most one piece of optional gear along on any given mission.
Right. A-pod or infernos, then.
« Last Edit: 06 January 2020, 15:30:00 by Joel47 »

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #26 on: 07 January 2020, 20:40:39 »
The Tactical Genius from Campaign Ops is s straight up reroll

Oh wow, I also just noticed that is at will.  Not 1x/game, but every turn.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #27 on: 07 January 2020, 20:48:37 »
Yeah that part does seem a bit much

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #28 on: 07 January 2020, 20:50:23 »
It matches most the other abilities.

The 1/game ones seem to be just our factional choices.

I was just thinking of it initially in terms of 1/game because of how the FS version works.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #29 on: 07 January 2020, 20:55:16 »
It kinda feels like it trivializes initiative a bit if you can always reroll, but I don't know what the odds are of rerolling losses turning them into wins., though the way we each took turns last game rather than having a "force commander" it wouldn't have had as much impact.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #30 on: 07 January 2020, 21:00:43 »
I don't think its as huge as we might think.  After all, you can still roll low twice &/or they can just plain roll high.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #31 on: 07 January 2020, 21:08:12 »
A re-roll gives you initiative 75% of the time. That seems a bit overpowered for the cost.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #32 on: 07 January 2020, 21:15:55 »
25% more than normal is certainly potent.  No dispute.

But ....   Is it more potent than stuff like Sniper that drops Range Modifiers in half?    (IDK)

Or Combat Intuition where you can basically act like you have Overrun ability  (Albeit by taking a Pilot Hit, so limited # of times per game that works)

Range Master seems like it could be potent on certain design/map combos too.  Gimme a Longbow with that option, or a bouncy sniper.  (Griffin?)

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #33 on: 07 January 2020, 21:19:14 »
Speaking of RangMaster & Sniper ?

Can they be combined?

The wording of Sniper makes me think No.

But the basic mechanics of it seems like it should be reasonable.

For example.

Swap Short/Long with Rangemaster.

Then have Sniper make the brackets be   +2,  +1,  0,  +4(3)?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #34 on: 07 January 2020, 21:36:06 »
That's a question for the Campaign Operations rules forum m

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #35 on: 07 January 2020, 21:44:18 »
Looks like someone already did & they do allow overlap so you would get some benefit by reducing short range in half like in my example.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #36 on: 07 January 2020, 23:30:18 »
25% more than normal is certainly potent.  No dispute.

50% more than normal. You win 3/4 instead of 2/4.

Quote
But ....   Is it more potent than stuff like Sniper that drops Range Modifiers in half?    (IDK)

It's a faction ability, and so should be compared with the other faction abilities. The intent of the second part as written is a boost to the player's initiative, not the entire team's. Look at the other faction abilities and tell me which you'd rather have. No comparison, right? Maybe "For the Chancellor" is close. So I'll run this up the chain of command, but giving it the same as the standard SPA is unlikely.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #37 on: 07 January 2020, 23:39:57 »
Oh, I don't think the Davion one should be like the regular one of every turn.

I was just saying it should be a chosen effect of after v/s before for the 1x per game you use it.

Agreed that that isn't the same as making your own move, I was trying to think of some way that would work with the way we do initiative.

My thought is have it act sort of how 1 of the Combat Intuition works.  Allow that 1 mech to move last for 1 turn regardless of initiative roll.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #38 on: 08 January 2020, 01:26:05 »
It kinda feels like it trivializes initiative a bit if you can always reroll, but I don't know what the odds are of rerolling losses turning them into wins., though the way we each took turns last game rather than having a "force commander" it wouldn't have had as much impact.

Assuming for a moment, that you just take the highest of the two (not the second result, which is the rules IIRC) then it just changes the average roll to be 8, rather than seven, with 7 having roughly the same chance as the single roll and a steep drop-off below that and a more gradual drop-off above 8

link to a graph and you can experiment to make your own tests https://anydice.com/program/19530

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #39 on: 10 January 2020, 11:13:16 »
Suggestion from the author for the Davion ability when random side initiative isn't being used:
Quote
Allow the Davion player to, once per game, force a specific enemy unit to move during a particular movement phase.
That's in addition to winning ties, of course. We'll give that a try for the Feb 1 game.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #40 on: 11 January 2020, 23:58:25 »
That is a very interesting idea.

Basically the reverse of him taking the initiative.

Could be very interesting if you have that 1 mech on the enemy team that is holding up half your side from going since they all want to see where it ends up.

Really throws a kink into a team that is init-sinking.   

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #41 on: 14 January 2020, 06:30:33 »
Might not be that big of an issue as no one else has brought it up yet, but for clarity. What happens if BattleTech is BattleTech and you lose your 'Mech to RNG in one of the first few missions? You arguably don't have enough to replace it, even if your lancemates carry the day. Or in the example I saw on the document where the Hornet Pilot upgrades to a Hunchback, seems that that vulnerability to a bad turn of the dice could just as equally sideline your career late game as well if you're not frugal. Is the player just forced to retire the MechWarrior they have been investing in and reroll another? Sure there are thoughts about it but didn't see them laid out in the document. Maybe I missed them.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #42 on: 14 January 2020, 08:49:27 »
You missed it.  ^-^ Losing your mech just means you get paid less for the mission. Even being turned into confetti by an ammo explosion. It's unrealistic, but necessary. (Similarly, pilot death just means you earn less XP.)

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #43 on: 14 January 2020, 09:17:25 »
Thanks for the clarification. I confess it feels like there might be a better way to manage that though than just instantly replacing it with the same mech. But understand that the goal is simplicity and not punishing your players too harshly over realism. Appreciate your time sir.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #44 on: 14 January 2020, 10:31:26 »
I'm not the author, just the person running the games here in Phoenix. I will say, though, that I've tried several other methods and there's no good way to handle that. In my last campaign (using rules I wrote), anyone taking heavy damage in their first 3-4 games was better off resetting. That's not fun. In the "real world," a military unit (especially a mercenary one) would try to avoid a "fair" fight, seeking instead to create an unfair fight in which they have the advantage. That's difficult in most wargames, Battletech included. So we end up with even fights, and that's bloody. I'm now in the camp of "If you want a better simulation of a campaign, use a more complex system (e.g., Campaign Ops)." This one definitely chooses "fun and easy" over accurate simulation, but I'm OK with that.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #45 on: 14 January 2020, 16:31:30 »
Its not entirely unrealistic.

After all,  in the actual Merc Contract Rules you have "BLC: Battlefield Loss Compensation" where the employer will replace a totally destroyed unit with one from their inventory.

The difference here is that its usually only 30-70% IIRC.   So you loose a lance, the House gives you 2 & you come up with the funds for 2 more or hire new warriors.

I'm fine with the rules here.  Repair/Destruction (IE.  Support/BLC) is handled by having a lower payday & that is fine by me.

A full on C-Bill costs campaign is, IMHO, strictly an at home with Friends kind of campaign.

These rules are quick & easy & mimic the SR Missions (D&D Living City) type rules with even less record keeping involved & that is good for a pick up game scenario that also wants the feel of some campaign advancement.



I would love to tinker with these rules for a 3037-ish timeline where you can have the tiniest amounts of "Proto-39" tech items also be rewards in addition to the specialty ammo & proto-A-Pods we saw last game.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #46 on: 15 January 2020, 05:44:30 »
No, I see your points and understand that this rule set approaches it from the quick and easy without punishing the players mentality. That makes sense and it keep people engaged rather than getting beat over the head by bad luck and having to suffer for it.

The counter I always have to the whole 'gonna do what you can to maximize your advantage' argument against realism is the opfor is doing that too. I'd be very much for those cakewalk missions where your intel was spot on and the other guy was flatfooted, but only so long as you might chance into those other missions where your intel was dead wrong and suddenly you're against a company instead of the lance you were expecting. Then it becomes more a matter of getting out with some semblance of a marginal win or just with whatever you can. You see examples of this in things like Good Faith Withdrawals in HBS Battletech, although oftentimes instilling that real sense of forced withdrawal is difficult. This system seemed promising for that as there is that looming fear that you might be dispossessed if you don't be smart about it.

Regardless I concede all of that gets away from the spirit of the ruleset which is to be approachable and not a rules lite stand-in for something like Campaign Ops without modification.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #47 on: 15 January 2020, 16:30:49 »
I don't know what these "Missions" games will all entail, but, I know in our older campaigns each of which was over a year long, we had plenty of missions where the BV against us was higher & our goal was not to beat them, but to "escape".

Retreat, Breakthrough, Escape, Snatch & Grabs,  etc etc.   We had those missions too.

Many players were "literally" caught flat footed when there roster of Heavy/Assault mechs couldn't run away in some of those scenarios & players had to learn to diversify their rosters.

I myself favor a roster that includes several jumping medium mechs & several light Vtol/Hovers so I'm prepared for anything funny like that.  (As well as plenty of Assaults too, hehe)


3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #48 on: 15 January 2020, 16:32:16 »
PS.  Its also why I don't have any plans to sell my current light mech that we start with.

Might be useful to hold onto for even if I do upgrade to something bigger/slower for if the GM throws us a curve ball where we need to have speed.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #49 on: 15 January 2020, 17:22:05 »
Appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #50 on: 02 February 2020, 00:15:45 »
Wow, that was a monster game. Three tables, total of 17 people (3 GMs, 14 players).

Next game is Sunday, Feb 29 at Games U. 1pm. (Seriously -- 1pm. I'm going to start telling people "no" when they walk up and ask if they can play after the start time. It's unfair to the others to have to rearrange everything after they've gotten settled.)

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #51 on: 02 February 2020, 01:04:51 »
Sorry I didn't make it.

I was all packed to go to the game & had a couple errands to hit on the way to it, when I got a phone call about "Birthday Brunch" for family member with no notice, no what r u doing today, no pre-warning at all & then it ran late.

To say I was annoyed is an understatement.

Sounds like this campaign is quite popular.

I look forward to playing again on the 29th.



What is "Games U" ??



How many pieces did each GM have to control?

I noticed at mission 1 the # of mechs wouldn't have been bad for a single GM but when we added in small vehicles & hordes of infantry it got quite cumbersome.



« Last Edit: 02 February 2020, 01:08:08 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #52 on: 02 February 2020, 21:36:10 »
Was Games U where Ian was saying his home base was now?  Is he running the next game to give you a break or is this just a change of scenery?

So how did the games themselves go?  I crashed after a bout of insomnia and ended up oversleeping, so I missed it.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #53 on: 03 February 2020, 10:14:33 »
What is "Games U" ??
https://gamesuaz.com/

Quote
How many pieces did each GM have to control? I noticed at mission 1 the # of mechs wouldn't have been bad for a single GM but when we added in small vehicles & hordes of infantry it got quite cumbersome.
Three mechs, four flatbed trucks, four infantry. (It could have been up to five mechs, but with three GMs we were able to have two five-player games and one four-player.) Since the infantry started out on the trucks and had to spend three rounds inside the depot, it wasn't a maneuver element for most of the game. The trick to both GM sanity and not init-sinking the players is to either group mechs with trucks & infantry, or at least group pairs of trucks and their infantry. (I did the latter -- my five players faced five maneuver elements made up of three mechs and two pairs of trucks; when the infantry dismounted, they were still moved with their trucks.)

Was Games U where Ian was saying his home base was now?
Yes.

Quote
Is he running the next game to give you a break or is this just a change of scenery?
Yes? Due to scheduling conflicts I couldn't get a February game at Game Depot. Since Ian has been co-GMing both games so far, it's only fair he get some demo team credit. I'll still be running a table.

Campaign rules update.

1. Sniper is changing. If you want to swap it out for something else, go ahead. New rule: The Sniper PSA should only affect a single or pair of identical weapons, and only when the 'mech is stationary for the round. (We're playtesting this; it may change again in the future.)
2. It doesn't apply yet, but there will be a new rule allowing players to spend C-bills to unlock other mechs for purchase (beyond those granted by faction and salvage). Worry less about what you'll be able to buy in the future.
3. Also not yet an issue, but players will be able to own multiple mechs. They'll only bring one to a battle, but they can have choice going in.
4. GMs will continue to earn fewer C-bills and XP (i.e., their pay will be less than winning players, but more than losing players and more than winning players who lose their mechs), but they will get salvage access to everything *not* salvaged by their players.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #54 on: 03 February 2020, 21:02:33 »
Campaign rules update.

1. Sniper is changing. If you want to swap it out for something else, go ahead. New rule: The Sniper PSA should only affect a single or pair of identical weapons, and only when the 'mech is stationary for the round. (We're playtesting this; it may change again in the future.)

2. It doesn't apply yet, but there will be a new rule allowing players to spend C-bills to unlock other mechs for purchase (beyond those granted by faction and salvage). Worry less about what you'll be able to buy in the future.

3. Also not yet an issue, but players will be able to own multiple mechs. They'll only bring one to a battle, but they can have choice going in.

4. GMs will continue to earn fewer C-bills and XP (i.e., their pay will be less than winning players, but more than losing players and more than winning players who lose their mechs), but they will get salvage access to everything *not* salvaged by their players.


1.  I don't have this ability, and have no intention of getting it any time soon.  But I got to say, that appears harsh. 

We are in a campaign of LIGHT mechs & you've gimped it to where they have to Park?    :o

Alternate suggestion.  Have the ability work similar to a Targeting Computer giving only a flat -1 off the range mod.    Same effect at Short/Medium but 1/2 the effect at long.   1/3 at Extreme.
If you feel that is still too good, then also instead of 1-2 matching weapons, restrict to a single category, Ballistic, Energy, or, Missile.    The 15 Points this costs then feels appropriate v/s a flat Gunnery skill increase that works even at Short & on all weapons.


2.  Interesting idea.  Still think we should just open up the MUL based on your Faction choice. 
   I suppose that would make Salvage useless.
   Just not a fan of the very few faction choices & this still feels like some factions get forced to pay.
   

3.  I think this is already covered in the rules isn't it?


4.  Hmm, I like that they get Salvage options for later based on what they kept alive... Except that it does almost inspire a GM to play Hide & Seek if their favorite mech is in their forces.
I still think GMs should have ZERO negatives for being tapped to be GM.  Winning Credit/XP seems appropriate.  But no access to the Special Mission Bonus Pay/Salvage/Special Equipment.
I think this means they would default to 350K & 15XP every time?   What are they currently getting?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #55 on: 03 February 2020, 21:21:04 »
1. Sniper is changing. If you want to swap it out for something else, go ahead. New rule: The Sniper PSA should only affect a single or pair of identical weapons, and only when the 'mech is stationary for the round. (We're playtesting this; it may change again in the future.)
Normally, I'd ask what Hellraiser did, but he says he wasn't there.
That seems like quite the nerf, so I'm curious what happened.  You could, potentially, instead of having sniper give a to-hit bonus, have it be to simply allow us to fire at extreme range and we couldn't otherwise (though that might also be similarly weak, long range shots are already tough).  Have you considered having it, rather than halve range penalties, have it just reduce long (and extreme)range by 1, but not effect medium (so Medium stays +2 Long becomes +3, and extreme would be +5 if we were using that rule), or is any reduction of long range penalties for all weapons too much?

Any word on the Davion Special?

Also, I'm not actually seriously considering this at this time(a 1 hex active probe doesn't honestly sound all that useful, and I think I already know what I want to pick first and second), but I am curious if the Eagle Eyes SPA would count towards the Active Probe Targeting rule.


Are these additional salvageable mechs mechs we saw on the field but missed the chance to salvage, or are you making a generic list of "for sale by owner" mechs

I also think it sounds better for GMs to actually be rewarded for their efforts, though I'm not really worried about salvage shenanigans

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #56 on: 03 February 2020, 21:27:53 »
It's only light mechs so far. Every player who's seen a Panther with Sniper has agreed they want one; any ability that everyone sees as a "must-have" is underpriced or overpowered. It needs a nerf, or it needs to cost about 40 points. Remember - SPAs don't affect BV. This change makes it more like what a sniper should be doing. Reducing only long range penalties is another option; I'll pass that on.

For #3, it was unclear. That was a clarification, not a change.

For #4, 250k and 10 XP, for no risk (remember, destroyed mechs really hurt earnings). It's a tough balancing act between not penalizing GMs and making it too good. Giving them access to everything the players didn't salvage is a nice bonus, while also encouraging realistic play (i.e., pseudo forced withdrawal).

The Davion SPA when not using forced initiative is "Once per game, nominate one enemy unit to move in a particular initiative pass (usually first)."

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #57 on: 03 February 2020, 21:32:30 »
Normally, I'd ask what Hellraiser did, but he says he wasn't there.
That seems like quite the nerf, so I'm curious what happened.  You could, potentially, instead of having sniper give a to-hit bonus, have it be to simply allow us to fire at extreme range and we couldn't otherwise (though that might also be similarly weak, long range shots are already tough).  Have you considered having it, rather than halve range penalties, have it just reduce long (and extreme)range by 1, but not effect medium (so Medium stays +2 Long becomes +3, and extreme would be +5 if we were using that rule), or is any reduction of long range penalties for all weapons too much?

Any word on the Davion Special?

Also, I'm not actually seriously considering this at this time(a 1 hex active probe doesn't honestly sound all that useful, and I think I already know what I want to pick first and second), but I am curious if the Eagle Eyes SPA would count towards the Active Probe Targeting rule.


Are these additional salvageable mechs mechs we saw on the field but missed the chance to salvage, or are you making a generic list of "for sale by owner" mechs

I also think it sounds better for GMs to actually be rewarded for their efforts, though I'm not really worried about salvage shenanigans

Hey don't look at me, I'm not the one running around with a bunch of Panthers that can actually HIT at 28 hexes.  That was the other table last month.
Though I imagine a bunch of the new folks that showed up this month also took it.

See Joel's comment up above about the changes.  It a basically reverses the ability.  Instead of you stealing it.  You declare when 1 of them has to move.
Suggestion from the author for the Davion ability when random side initiative isn't being used:That's in addition to winning ties, of course. We'll give that a try for the Feb 1 game.

As I understand it, you only get to salvage something that you have Check Box from a previous mission.
Not other tables.  Not games you missed.  etc etc.
But you have your record sheet of everything that was "possible" that you participated in.
So even though it was only 1 Assassin.  Technically, everyone at the table could later buy it.  (Holy Mechs Breeding like Rabbits Batman)
I like the rule, completely removes the issue of fighting for who gets what salvage.
The GMs will essentially get to "Check Box" for anything that SURVIVES the battle to escape.  At least that is how I read it.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #58 on: 03 February 2020, 21:45:49 »
It's only light mechs so far. Every player who's seen a Panther with Sniper has agreed they want one; any ability that everyone sees as a "must-have" is underpriced or overpowered. It needs a nerf, or it needs to cost about 40 points. Remember - SPAs don't affect BV. This change makes it more like what a sniper should be doing. Reducing only long range penalties is another option; I'll pass that on.

Yeah, its the future when an Awesome/Stalker is on the Field & it now has an even BIGGER reason to CAMP that I'm worried about.

See my suggestion above.  I think going from 0,-1,-2,-3 to 0,-1,-1,-1 should cut down some of that long/extreme range accuracy.

I'd like to see a JaggerMech, Thunderbolt, or, Crusader get full use of there AC, Lasers, Missiles respectively, which is why I suggested by Damage Code.
  (Plus it actually mimics the old MW3 RPG specializations) 

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #59 on: 03 February 2020, 21:52:46 »
It's only light mechs so far. Every player who's seen a Panther with Sniper has agreed they want one; any ability that everyone sees as a "must-have" is underpriced or overpowered. It needs a nerf, or it needs to cost about 40 points. Remember - SPAs don't affect BV. This change makes it more like what a sniper should be doing.
Ah that makes sense.  Panthers are already pretty dangerous being able to actually do appreciable damage to other light mechs while they close.

Quote
The Davion SPA when not using forced initiative is "Once per game, nominate one enemy unit to move in a particular initiative pass (usually first)."
Ah, OK.  I might actually take it then.  The previous version didn't seem useful at all since ties are rare, and we don't use forced initiative very often either.
Also makes my SPA decision a bit tougher.  I had a pairing I wanted to try, but since that requires leveling up piloting that's a fair chunk of XP, so even if the faction SPA doesn't take up a slot, it still puts me like half a game back.


See Joel's comment up above about the changes.  It a basically reverses the ability.  Instead of you stealing it.  You declare when 1 of them has to move.
As I understand it, you only get to salvage something that you have Check Box from a previous mission.
Not other tables.  Not games you missed.  etc etc.
Yeah I mainly wasn't sure if anything had been for sure decided on.
Quote
But you have your record sheet of everything that was "possible" that you participated in.
So even though it was only 1 Assassin.  Technically, everyone at the table could later buy it.  (Holy Mechs Breeding like Rabbits Batman)
I like the rule, completely removes the issue of fighting for who gets what salvage.
The GMs will essentially get to "Check Box" for anything that SURVIVES the battle to escape.  At least that is how I read it.
Yeah, I know how the salvage works.  I meant more that I'm not worried about the GMs being jerks trying to save that special mech.
and if you were commenting on the additional mechs question, I meant if number 2 was: we can pay extra to get a mech we didn't check off on the salvage box, or if the list of mechs we can purchase is unconnected to any OpFors we've fought.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #60 on: 03 February 2020, 22:08:44 »
Ah, I see where you were going now.

Yeah, I'm not sure what "access" you will be paying for.

Like I've said,  I'd like to just see the faction list opened up.

But in turn, there would have to be some sort of benefit of the Salvage itself.

Maybe buy them at 80% like how you sell your own mech?

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #61 on: 03 February 2020, 22:30:49 »
Hey on a side note, can I get your advice on whether this is a terrible mistake:

I was thinking of leaning into my maneuverability and eventually picking up both Maneuvering Ace and Natural Grace (and probably the latter first)
In total that gives me the ability to:
*lateral shift in a biped (1 less MP vs turn, move turn, when shifting 1 hex over, or just straight up free in a quad mech)
*Torso twist 1 additional hex side (so nothing ever exits arc), includes giving quads torso twist
*do flipping arms with any mech and/or flip just one arm (not relevant for the locust really, but maybe later)
*run backwards
along with a few PSR bonuses

Would be better able to pursue, or flee enemies, and when I get there, not have to worry about then being unable to fire my pitiful arsenal, but it also means holding off on gunnery or tactical buffs or getting into a medium more quickly, and I'm not sure if heavier mechs would benefit as much.
*run backwards

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #62 on: 03 February 2020, 23:47:32 »
Hmm, 

Its an interesting combo & not a mistake, but, it will be a while since you'll have to get to Piloting-4 for them both.

I'm thinking you have 39 XP banked already since you never took an ability for the first game.

I'd play in the next game as is, which would put you over 50 & buy Gunnery-3 while you have that much SP saved.

Then push onto Medium mech & buy an Enforcer after the following game.  The Low Cost of your Locust means you'll probably be able to get there before all the Panther purchasers out there.

And medium mechs is the ONE area we have a decent mech option.  Would also give you 2 very different choices depending on mission needs.

I also think that combo above will work well with the Enforcer's Gun/Arms so you could still go for it in the future.



FYI.  I also already bought the new Tactical Genius before last game since I had planned on being at it.  So we will already win ties & it won't be quite as useful.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #63 on: 04 February 2020, 01:28:15 »
Yeah 65 XP is a pretty steep cost, so it is a longer term goal.  Getting JUST Natural Grace isn't all that bad though, and is what extends my firing arcs to. . .everywhere, and I'm currently valuing having the ability to shoot not restricting my movement a bit higher than just the extra movement (and Maneuvering Ace only grants lateral Shift by itself anyway)

I'm thinking you have 39 XP banked already since you never took an ability for the first game.
:\  Did I miscalculate somewhere?  I wrote 37 on my sheet.
My current totals I have are 1,425,800 Cbills (2,500,000 initial -1,574,200 for the locust + 500,000 from the last game)  37 XP (15 initial +22 from the last game) and I got bonuses for having a mini (unpainted) and buying something from the store (and don't remember which bonus was which).
Quote
I'd play in the next game as is, which would put you over 50 & buy Gunnery-3 while you have that much SP saved.

Then push onto Medium mech & buy an Enforcer after the following game.  The Low Cost of your Locust means you'll probably be able to get there before all the Panther purchasers out there.

And medium mechs is the ONE area we have a decent mech option.  Would also give you 2 very different choices depending on mission needs.

I also think that combo above will work well with the Enforcer's Gun/Arms so you could still go for it in the future.
Assuming an Enforcer is on offer.  Right now the only medium I can grab is the ASN-21 which is another mech that does more running than gunning.  The plan to get arm flips for all mechs does give me a bit of a conundrum.  My trooper of choice is actually the Centurion.

Extra gunnery as quickly as possible does sound good, though.


Quote
FYI.  I also already bought the new Tactical Genius before last game since I had planned on being at it.  So we will already win ties & it won't be quite as useful.
Good to know.  Does depend on how often we end up at the same table (not sure who, if anyone else, took Davion)

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #64 on: 04 February 2020, 02:35:43 »
Here is what I have from Game #1

I think you would have the same figures right?


Date:   2020-01-04   
Event:   Mission: 01-01:  Pirate Defense  Pt.1   
C-Bills Transactions:   $450,000      (Base $350K + 100K  Capture a Pirate Pilot)
XP Transactions:   24      (Base 15 Win  +  5 Owned Painted Mini  +  4 Kills  (3 Mechs, 1 Tank)
Notes:



EDIT:   If yours was unpainted then I think that is why you have 37.  It might have been a 3 XP bonus instead of 5.

No idea on if there was an extra 50K for buying something from the store.   I do recall something about that but can't remember anything specific.


« Last Edit: 04 February 2020, 02:49:42 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #65 on: 12 February 2020, 13:53:09 »
As I understand it, you only get to salvage something that you have Check Box from a previous mission.
Not other tables.  Not games you missed.  etc etc.
But you have your record sheet of everything that was "possible" that you participated in.
So even though it was only 1 Assassin.  Technically, everyone at the table could later buy it.  (Holy Mechs Breeding like Rabbits Batman)
I like the rule, completely removes the issue of fighting for who gets what salvage.
The GMs will essentially get to "Check Box" for anything that SURVIVES the battle to escape.  At least that is how I read it.

Correct. Everyone at the table gets a piece, plants it, waters it, adds fertilizer, and when they can afford it eventually salvages a complete mech.  :D

And GMs get access to everything that made it off. I'm not worried about GMs trying to save something for themselves, because that essentially compensates the players by giving them an easier win.

Like I've said,  I'd like to just see the faction list opened up.

But in turn, there would have to be some sort of benefit of the Salvage itself.

Maybe buy them at 80% like how you sell your own mech?

Ooh, that's a good idea.

No idea on if there was an extra 50K for buying something from the store.   I do recall something about that but can't remember anything specific.

Correct, 50k C-bills for buying something from the store (min $10, doesn't have to be BT-related). They have to remain in business to give us table space.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #66 on: 17 February 2020, 07:45:57 »
I don't suppose any of you have a few better examples of what the author intends with certificates. Particularly the sections that fall under the umbrella of additional rewards. They seem rather vague. While I'm sure this is to keep it open ended I wouldn't mind getting a better idea of options you might have used and how you've tracked and implemented them.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #67 on: 17 February 2020, 09:57:41 »
You mean things like the improvised A-pods from the first scenario or access to inferno SRM ammo (the reward for the second scenario)?

If so, some upcoming rewards are access to a tank as a second unit, the ability to choose a single unit from a given list to add to your availability list, and some limited-use pilot abilities.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #68 on: 18 February 2020, 09:13:19 »
Exactly, but also regarding how you have implemented it. Is it something you just have the players denote on their character sheet? Or do they actually receive a certificate that defines the bonus and all of its properties? Are the possibilities as varied as whatever you as the GM can come up? Or have you found it has been better to cap their power and try not to allow for something that might unbalance things too much.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #69 on: 18 February 2020, 10:19:22 »
(Note that I'm not the campaign's author, just a GM.)
If you're familiar with Shadowrun Missions, it works very much like that. After each mission, players get an AAR sheet to keep with their "character sheet." (It will eventually become quite a packet!) On that, it lists the various victory conditions, mechs available for salvage, and other rewards; the VCs and salvage matching what the players achieved are marked, and the GM signs it.

As an example, the rewards for this last mission was three missions' worth of Inferno SRMs. There are three checkboxes; each time they're used (taken into battle and either fired more than once, dumped, or blown up) one is checked off. When they're gone, they're gone. Similarly, the first mission's improvised A-pods have three checkboxes, as well as the rules for them (since they're a little different from regular A-pods, being "improvised").

As for things becoming overpowered, the fact that everything is limited use should keep it in check. Additionally, the goal is for this to be like a tabletop RPG -- weighted in the players' favor. The OpFor BV scales with player BV, but it does not scale with the players' SPAs or other bonuses. In theory, that corrects for the GM's advantage of having unified tactics (one person running a group instead of a group running a group) and, usually, more skill at the playing game.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #70 on: 18 February 2020, 22:37:04 »
For example,  the After Action Report for the first mission in January had the following.


WIN / LOSS    (Pay for Win v/s Loss)
BONUS PAY  (Capture a pilot alive)    +$100K
XP Earned   (Base Amount,  XP For Kills,   XP for Bonus Rewards)
Mission Equipment:  Improvised A-Pods   (3 Boxes to check off when used)
Other Notes.


My own results were as follows.
Win = +$350K
Bonus for Captured Pilot = +$100K    (Total of $450K)
XP Earned = 15+4+5 = Total 24
No A-Pods Used.
No other Notes.


Each table fills out there sheets based on game results & then GM signs.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #71 on: 29 February 2020, 23:09:31 »
1st,  thank you to all 3 GM's,  Joel,  Ian,  & Jared!!

It was also nice to see a different venue, thanks Ian, though I will forever love Depot as my gaming home, & my feet didn't enjoy standing for 5 hours w/o pacing or sitting space.

That said, I did like the tall tables w/ shelves underneath.

Now, on to the match.

Well today was not a day for the PC's that's for sure.

I think there were 12?/13? players?   I know Joel had 5 & Ian had 4,  not sure if Jared had 3-4, I think maybe just 3 since I heard there was no Locust there.


Table/Jared resulted in a TPK as Jared just couldn't miss & kept blowing heads off mechs with an AC20.


Table/Ian had someone w/ Rangemaster? SP that was able to take out the Locust before it got far.


Table/Joel had the full enemy mech roster of 5 mechs & wow, just wow,  I'm not sure how you catch that Locust w/o some sort of Sniper/Rangemaster ability.

Speaking of Sniper.    As I feared, it really does seem to be an Over-Nerf, at least in this campaign where we are all in Lights, having to Park to use it is just not worth it from what I saw, the Panther only used it 1-2x the entire game due to having to move.
Maybe make it Park for All Weapons  v/s   Walk for 1 "Set" of Identical Weapons? (2PPC/4ML/2LRM20)  v/s  Run/Jump for a single weapon.   IDK, but in its current form I wouldn't take it till I was in an Assault mech focused on Fire Support  (Awesome/Longbow)

As for the game, the GM had to make 1 change for it to even be possible & that was rule that a "slow" v/s "fast" mech the "TIE" goes to the players.
To stop that Locust we would have needed rolling maps or at least 1-2 more maps anyway.

Some said if it was a Breakthrough v/s Chase that might have helped.

Another thing that might have changed things would have been the Players Deployment edge.
Coming in from either side of Map-1 v/s being behind them & having the Hunchback/Centurion smack in the middle of the map where all guns could shoot everywhere just wasn't feasible for the players to have much of a chance.
And that was with seeing Joel intentionally make some non-optimized moves.

Also the L0 water proved to be too easy to cross.

There is a limited selection this early in the campaign.
If the Locust had been a Wasp/Stinger then probably okay.
If the Players had access to Spiders, Ostscouts, Hussars, Hermes, or Mongoose mechs then it might have also been possible.

That said with the change of "TIE GOES TO THE RUNNER (PC)" we did manage to pull out a win.
Though, even that took some insane luck with ammo explosions & leg crits galore.

Finally tally of death & destruction was a salvaged Hermes-II-2S for the PCs, while the Panther pilot took a crit to the Cockpit & the Raven had his leg blown off.
The 2 Javelins & Locust were functional & alive,  (If barely in the case of my PC who was bleeding out his eyes & ears using his Evil Eye (Combat Intuition) to "survey the battlefield" in order get some crippling blows on the Commando/Hermes-II & slow them down for the team to take out).

I also do not want to see our other Javelin warrior when she upgrades to a GrassHopper/Guillotine/Victor & uses that Jumping Jack ability to rip open things with a mech that don't have the heat issues of a Javelin.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #72 on: 29 February 2020, 23:14:01 »
Speaking of Sniper.    As I feared, it really does seem to be an Over-Nerf, at least in this campaign where we are all in Lights, having to Park to use it is just not worth it from what I saw, the Panther only used it 1-2x the entire game due to having to move.
Maybe make it Park for All Weapons  v/s   Walk for 1 "Set" of Identical Weapons? (2PPC/4ML/2LRM20)  v/s  Run/Jump for a single weapon.   IDK, but in its current form I wouldn't take it till I was in an Assault mech focused on Fire Support  (Awesome/Longbow)
It went from being better than every other SPA to something situational. It felt poor in this scenario because of the pursuit; imagine if the heroes had been between the pirates and escape so it didn't have to move! I think it's probably fine, and will reserve judgement until after a more typical scenario.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #73 on: 01 March 2020, 12:37:11 »
I was also thinking about the opposition.

As I understood it, the 3 Mediums were coming no matter what?

It was the Commando/Locust that got added as force size grew?

I think this might be where the problem is.

Those particular 3 mediums are probably too much for 3 lights to be chasing down.

I'm sure they were chosen for having no JJ's but they have lots of armor/firepower.

I think that it might be better if the Commando was in the fixed start & one of the bigger mediums was added later depending on player BV?

Overall maybe just a bigger selection of mechs for the GM to choose from?

Maybe combine the Hunchback-4G & Centurion-9A into a single brusier/sniper with the Centurioun-9AH

Add something that is lower armored like the Clint-1-2R or 2-4T that still can't jump.



And your right about if it was a Breakthrough then "Between" would have been ideal for Sniper forcing the enemy to come to him while being parked.

I think a regular game of meet in the middle will be the testing ground but I'm still feeling like its an over nerf when you combine Parking WITH single Weapon fire.

My scale might be off a bit, IDK,  perhaps Park for 1 linked set & walk for single weapon.   That feels to small unless you are backing 3+ of said "Set".

Or key it to the old "Missile v/s Ballistic v/s Energy" weapon type from MW3 Pilot Specializations?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #74 on: 01 March 2020, 19:11:32 »
The victory conditions for that scenario are likely going to change based on the feedback. When it was playtested they didn't realize there was such a thing as depth 0 water. Here are the proposed new VCs:
Quote
You now win if "No more than one enemy 'mech escapes", with the bonus condition being "Only one 'mech escapes whose walking speed is no greater than the fastest PC 'mech".

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #75 on: 01 March 2020, 20:21:45 »
So basically what we did for our table?

Don't the older versions of the paper maps have level 1 water everywhere?  That's definitely a source of inconsistency, since, if there had been depth 1 water everywhere, that would have slowed the locust down for a turn, and given at least the jump jet equipped mechs a chance to gain ground by bypassing the water, though the fact we're trying to dodge a couple of boomsticks along the way is still problematic.

I think having an 8/12 mover is just a bad idea.  Having more fast mechs players have access to is all well and good, but that doesn't mean much if they don't end up on the table.  Our table only had the one locust between 5 players, and it had to sprint to catch up.  Opfor really should either be limited have something that a 6/9 mech can close distance at while sprinting, or have no choice but to get bogged down in terrain jumping mechs can bypass (and thus catch up that way)

On an unrelated note, now that I've actually gotten a chance to see them, I kinda want some of those neoprene maps.  I held off adding maps to my kickstarter because I was already spending a lot of money on plastic (and still have a couple more mech packs I'd like to have), to get something I don't know is going to be good.
Still wishing cardboard weren't too expensive, though, the map boards from the hex packs and 25th ed box set are still my favorite since they look just as great but fit in my minis bag. (Speaking of,  I have all of the cardboard maps, if you ever need to borrow one of them, lemme know.)

I'll also agree it was nice to see a different store, though I could have used a stool.  I stand enough at work to do more in my leisure time, though I could have at least worn better shoes had I known.  Was also nice to see a good stack of boxed sets (When we had the game in January I had bought Game Depot's last box at the time).  I'm a bit sad they didn't have the beginner's box, though.
« Last Edit: 01 March 2020, 20:50:56 by BirdofPrey »

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #76 on: 08 March 2020, 11:40:08 »
For the upcoming game on the 21st I'm going to have two tables set up for the "current" mission, 01-04. If space and turnout permit a third table, I'll set it up for one of the previous missions, since not everyone has made every game. Which mission depends on demand: If you have missed any games and you'll be at the game, which previous scenarios have you missed? (There have been three.) "None" is an option.
There's a poll going in the Facebook group as well, so please don't answer both.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #77 on: 08 March 2020, 14:29:18 »
SPA changes. These are no longer "beta" -- the player rules have been updated.
Quote
Combat Intuition (15 Points)
A unit must declare that it is using Combat Intuition during the end phase of a turn, before
movement dice are removed. While the unit using Combat Intuition acts, other units all maintain
movement modifiers and firing modifiers from the previous turn.
Sniper (15 Points)
A unit may not move in the turn that it uses the Sniper SPA, and it may only fire one weapon or
one pair of identical weapons.

Combat Intuition is much less powerful, but still good. (This is how it should have been written originally, in my opinion.)
Sniper is what we've been doing, albeit with the clarification that you may only fire one weapon, rather than have it affect only one weapon. I know some of you think it's over-nerfed, but it was either that or jack the price up to the 40-50 range.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #78 on: 08 March 2020, 15:31:25 »
Eww.   IDK. 

Without the reduction of TMM, I don't see the use of it at 15 points.

Not when your taking a Pilot hit every time you use it.

What do you get from it now?   To move near them first?
    I guess if you do ENOUGH damage then maybe it affects their movement/shooting options in their own phase.
   But doing that damage while they still have a TMM is unlikely.

At that point its basically only useful for game #3 where we have to chase down that Locust.
  But in turn, shooting that Locust at +4 would mean your missing all those shots anyway.

I think I'm looking for a refund on this one.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #79 on: 08 March 2020, 15:32:48 »
For the upcoming game on the 21st I'm going to have two tables set up for the "current" mission, 01-04. If space and turnout permit a third table, I'll set it up for one of the previous missions, since not everyone has made every game. Which mission depends on demand: If you have missed any games and you'll be at the game, which previous scenarios have you missed? (There have been three.) "None" is an option.
There's a poll going in the Facebook group as well, so please don't answer both.

Missed Game #2, but will also be missing Game #4, so, not sure how that is going to work, lol.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #80 on: 08 March 2020, 16:00:42 »
Quote from: Hellraiser link=topic=67676.msg1588618#msg1588618
I think I'm looking for a refund on this one.

I think it's still useful, just more situational. It was OP as hell, as you demonstrated. Now you just use it to take advantage of fallen mechs, or to backstab mechs who thought, "I can take it for one round..."

But if you disagree, yes, you can swap it out.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #81 on: 08 March 2020, 16:21:06 »
It was OP as hell, as you demonstrated.

I think it was situationaly OP.   IF, you happen to be able to not get shot at.   AND, if your game is short enough that the limit of 3-4 uses max has serious effects.

In game 1 I used it 1x, and felt ok about the investment.
Game 3 using it 3x, hell no, it was a desperate attempt to deal w/ serious scenario imbalance at set up.
I didn't want to risk a 2nd pilot hit causing death, because it was at that point, but it was that or loose the game.

Sniper was OP because it let you do that EVERY round.  Without a Drawback.   Now its over nerfed & short of taking it on an Archer or Warhammer there is no point.
Jumping Jack is questionable.  Its not great for the Javelin that is currently using it.  But when that is a Guillotine/GrassHopper, its going to decimate.

This at least had a Negative to it.  One that gets progressively worse the more you do it.
It actually has TWO negatives, because you give up your initiative slot which means the entire enemy team moves AFTER you.

If the abilities are too lame then they aren't worth the points & no one wants them & its better to just unlock Skills or Bigger Mechs.

Trading turn order for early hit is a trade off & your paying 15 points for that ability.  Now it feels as if the pilot hits are overkill.


Now you just use it to take advantage of fallen mechs, or to backstab mechs who thought, "I can take it for one round..."

But if you disagree, yes, you can swap it out.

Interesting situational ideas.

I'll try it nerfed for next game & then decide if that is fine by you.

I have the feeling that it won't be worth it, it will be TOO situational now.

Not worth the risk of sticking your arse out in the open for everyone to shoot at.

But I'm willing to try it for a game.

Though the more I think about it, long term investment is not worth it, as mechs get bigger the TMM would have been lower, & the firepower coming at you increases thus meaning your more likely to take Pilot Hits.

It feels like the opposite of Jump Jack that way, starts ok, but ends weaker.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #82 on: 15 March 2020, 12:48:13 »
The Missions game scheduled for Saturday, March 21 at Game Depot AZ has been cancelled. That's too many people in one place -- better safe than sick. Stay home and paint minis!

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #83 on: 15 March 2020, 20:17:48 »
WHAT???

Okay,   I put up with the NBA playoffs being delayed.

I tolerated the Grocery Store hoarders buying up all the Purell & TP.

But this,  this is unacceptable.

Thanos Snaps for EVERYONE!


J/K


Good Call Joel,  Hope to see you all next time!

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #84 on: 18 March 2020, 00:15:55 »
You know, it occurs to me that with the Covid invasion, we should all be hunkering down for this campaign on MEGAMECH  :)

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #85 on: 23 October 2021, 13:28:08 »
I didn't see a new thread so I thought I'd just update this one.
Added benefit I can see results from other games from last year.


Here is the info from the email about today's game & going forward.



Quote
Battletech Missions
  The Catalyst Demo Team in the Phoenix area is restarting the Missions campaign that was so rudely interrupted by the pandemic.
We're restarting from scratch; players from before don't need to recreate their characters and retain all advancement, but we do ask that if we're at capacity and you've played a scenario before that you step aside for someone who hasn't (and maybe offer to be an assistant GM).
See below for location dates and times.
e're going to try to run each scenario at each venue whenever possible so players don't need to drive all over the valley to get every mission in.

Campaign Synopsis:
  Similar to Shadowrun Missions, this campaign will be a series of shorter battles that string together to form a story arc.
 Players need not play in every game!
 Each battle will give participating players C-bills and XP, the amounts depending on mission success and damage taken.
 Spend XP and C-bills to upgrade your pilot and mech.

Campaign Rules: https://bit.ly/35WSBYB

TLDR: Just show up. Pre-generated pilots & mechs will be available.

Slightly longer summary:
    Pilot and Mech:
        You have a pilot, 15 XP, and 2.5M C-Bills
        Choose a faction for your pilot (optional, and can be done later)
        Use your XP to buy one Special Pilot Ability (optional, but recommended)
        Use your C-Bills to purchase a light mech from the list in the rules. (required)
        Get the mini for your mech and paint it (optional, but gives a small earnings bonus)
    Games:
        Players vs GM
        Beyond six players one (experienced) player gets to be GM for a second table
        Games usually last about four hours.
    Campaign:
        At the end of each game the players get C-Bills and XP based on mission objectives completed.
        Mech destroyed or pilot killed? You earn less money or XP, but they'll be back next game.
        Miss a game or two? You don't get paid, but you join in with no penalties when you come back.
        Spend XP to upgrade pilot skill or buy a new Special Ability.
        Spend C-Bills to buy a new mech.
            (Expect a minimum of 5 games in your initial ride before you upgrade.)
        The CDT members will be running the same scenario each month at different stores

Locations:
The Silver Key Lounge in Mesa - first game Sat, Oct 23 @ 2pm
Games U in Gilbert - first game Sun, Nov 14 @ 12pm
Imperial Outpost in Glendale - TBD
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #86 on: 23 October 2021, 13:41:00 »
I didn't see a new thread so I thought I'd just update this one.
Added benefit I can see results from other games from last year.


Here is the info from the email about today's game & going forward.

Seems Joel posted it in Challenges and Gatherings instead of here.  Threw me off a bit too.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/challenges-and-gatherings/battletech-missions-campaign-in-phoenix-az/


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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #87 on: 23 October 2021, 14:12:00 »
Ohh, I missed that.  Doh.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #88 on: 23 October 2021, 14:17:24 »
I figured C&G sees more traffic.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #89 on: 23 October 2021, 15:09:59 »
I got confused because I first found it in the "new posts" section and then looked in Demo team first trying to find it again

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #90 on: 15 November 2021, 12:59:07 »
So I have a couple questions about Mission 01-01 & the campaign in regards to the XP rewards for vehicle kills & the Infantry from 01-01


First up.
   Are the vehicles in mission 01-01 supposed to count for XP rewards?

1.  The PC's mission record sheets asks for a full tally of Mechs/Vehicles killed
2.  The rules packet declare a "Combat Vehicle" as anything that isn't a APC, Support Truck, non-combatant.
3.  The GM's XP reward sheet for Mission 01-01 only says 1XP per Mech Kill w/ nothing about Vehicles.

The vehicles are a variant of the basic "APC" but they are a model that drops the Cargo space for more guns.  So not an APC then?

I've played twice now & its been ruled differently each time so I'm just looking for clarity since the 3 reference sheets do not line up exactly.


2nd Question:
  What kind of Infantry are those supposed to be?

1.  Listed as 10 Man "Platoons"
2.  5 MP  ??   (Only Hover/Mechanized NON-Support Platoons have 5 MP)
3.  Noted as being Motorized + Wheeled?    (Are they Motorized or Mechanized/Wheeled?)   
4.  Either 3PM Motorized or 4 MP Wheeled.   
5.  Either they can enter Trees or they can't.   (Motorized Can - Wheeled/Mechanized, Can NOT)
6.  Double Damage from Mech Weapons = Mechanized.
7.  If Wheeled/Mechanized then they get the +1 Paved bonus, but Motorized does not.  (IIRC)
8.  Source of the Stats?  Are these canon platoon from somewhere?


The GM ruling was all over the place at one point following 1 rule & at another a different & he mentioned its unclear what they are so I'm asking for clarification from the Writer as to what these are supposed to be for future reference
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #91 on: 15 November 2021, 13:23:24 »
Note that the missions have been updated since you played them the first time two years ago, fixing small errors.
I probably mistakenly gave out XP for the APCs, forgetting that they're not real combat vehicles. I'm not going to go back and fix that for people who played in my recent games, both because of the logistics involved and because in both games at least one APC nearly got a mech kill. (Silly Locust, MGs are scary!) Whatever the GM interprets that game stands, but we'll try to clarify things going forward.

The infantry appear to be non-canon, because unlike everything else there's no source given in the GM packet. I treated them as mechanized (road bonus), and had them take damage according to the table in the GM packet.

It's important to realize that this campaign has a bit of an RPG element to it -- story trumps rules in an RPG, and scenario rules trump general rules here. Don't overthink it.

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #92 on: 15 November 2021, 13:59:28 »
Honestly, I'd call them a combat vehicle.

They have no cargo space.  They have Four guns on them and can take a PPC hit to every side.
  One of them took fire from several mechs & kept on going.

10 Tons they might be, but this is light mechs, I'm assuming there won't even BE a "REAL" combat vehicle like a Manticore in any of our games because it would kill off 2-3 mechs before it dies.

They have no cargo & double weapons, yet a Maxim if it showed up, has 3 tons of cargo.

The above is clearly an example of how "APC, Support Truck, or Other Non-Combatant" can be misread.

To me if its shooting at you 4 times & is fast enough to outrun anything but a Locust then its a combatant.

I'm honestly just looking for clarity in how the rules are read based on the wording in the campaign doc v/s the player mission record sheet v/s the GM mission record sheet all being 3 different things.

/cough..... Somebody dial 911-EDITOR

I'm less concerned fixing the past then just getting a concrete ruling on the writers intent & how to rule things in the future.
Something like  "2 MG or less = APC,  or,  10% or More Tonnage in Cargo = APC",  or has to have Both of the above... would be clarifying.


Ditto the infantry, I'm not trying to "overthink" it,  I'm just looking for a concrete understanding of what the item is in front of me, before I attempt to attack it & then it doesn't take damage the way it should & I've set up my attack run already & now I'm a sitting duck, etc etc.

Even something as simple as "Best of Both Worlds for Motorized/Mechanized in any decision for the Infantry" because its 4 platoons of Periphery Edition Captain America Super Soldiers.

I get RPG but knowing what the unit in front of you can do is a pretty big part of the tactical aspect of the game, IE,
 it can or can't move through that line of Light Woods,  it can or can't take Double Damage from SRMs & B-Pods, etc etc.


I don't have any issue with "special" units either, I just want to know the full details of it & not find out after something has failed.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #93 on: 15 November 2021, 14:08:52 »
Regardless of Rules questions above.

The game yesterday at Game-U was fun.

5 Player Mechs
Panther-9R
Raven-2X
Firefly-?
Javelin-10F
Valkyrie-QA


4 Enemy Mechs
Assassin-23
Firestarter-9?
Panther-8Z
Wasp-1D

2 Enemy Vehicles
Wheeled-APC-Weapons Variant MG

4 Infantry Units  (40 Men)
10 Man Super Soldier Squads complete with Rocket powered Motorcycles  ;)


The Raven lost a leg towards the end.

The enemy Panther was cored.
The Firestarter lost a leg & bailed out  (Captured)

Both APCs down.
1 APC went down at the door, the other was retreating when it was killed.
3 Platoons totaling 6 men made it into the depot
They were declared destroyed when at 1 turn left they were finally able to exit.

Assassin & Wasp both retreated over the water & despite trying to chase down the Wasp in my Javelin, 2 jumping mechs does not make for good to-hit roles.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #94 on: 21 November 2021, 02:59:18 »
So here is a quick recap of today's game at the table I was GMing at Silver Key for Mission 01-02

5 Player Mechs  (A few advanced pilots in the mix)
Firefly-?
Javelin-10N
Commando-2B ?  The LL/SRM2 one
Locust-1E
Locust-1V


3 Enemy Mechs
Wolverine-6R
Clint-2-3T
Whitworth-1

Also along for the ride were a platoon of Flatbed Truck (Armor) models each carrying a Foot Infantry Platoon.



GM Team, all run up the middle, go go go.   Players entered split along a wide line.
Turn-1  Everyone Ran/Flanked
Turn-2  Flank wouldn't quite get the trucks there so several cruised & the mechs started to spread out.  Long range fire from AC's & LRMs
Turn-3  3 Trucks got next to the depot & dropped off infantry.   No room for the last so it cruised & got into position   Possibly 1 round of Building Scanning done here.
Turn-4  Infantry into building  - 4th truck drops off the kids.   I think this is the round the Wolverine gets kicked & fails PSR & falls over & also fails avoid pilot damage.
Turn-5  4th Platoon into building.  Trucks just drive around trying to build up TMM & hide.  Wolverine takes a head hit here for 2nd pilot hit.
Turn-6  Wolverine fails 2nd PSR from being kicked by a light mech & 2nd avoid pilot damage check for 3rd Pilot Hit - Fails the nappy time 7-check & is asleep.
Turn-7  Wolverine is fired on & 2 SL stack on head & head destroyed.

I've left off most the other info.   
To summarize.......
Commando hid & sniped w/ rangemaster ability
Locusts ran in circles & kicked things if they could
Javelin played bouncy bouncy with the Clint & scanned 1x in round 3-5 range.
Firefly moved or parked & fired LRMs/MLs at stuff.
Whitworth got on a hill & fired LRMs all day.

Things that went wrong.
I didn't think about using Sprinting ability for the Trucks, it took far to long to off load & get inside.
  This is on me but should we have to depend on an optional rule that not everyone uses just to be able to pull off the mission goal?
Joel sprinted on his board & dropped off 4 platoons on turn 2 where as I got 3 on turn 3 & 1 on turn 4.
The nature of no movement on dropoff by the infantry, foot being only 1 MP & the fact that the building was flanked by 2 tree hexes & the trucks can't enter the trees was a bad set up IMO.

This game was decided by the rules for how long the infantry have to sit around in the building & yet the trucks & infantry can't shoot or physical back so its just on the 3 mechs to deal w/ 5 faster mechs.

Joel's table got in twice the # of turns than we did.  Not sure how.  I know the players were a bit slow on their movement decisions but still, twice the # of turns makes me think we were doing something way wrong.
Yet, 7 turns in 4 hours isn't a horrible rate for our normal games so I'm thinking its more that Joel's table was moving like lighting.

My infantry was not going to be able to leave the building till Turn 8.
Which means mounting up on Turn 9.
With sprinting again meaning Turn 11 as the soonest you can get off the board.
I'm just not seeing how the infantry had any chance of escape.

Of course all of this is all much worse because the Wolverine failed every PSR known to man & had minor armor damage but an unconscious pilot by turn 6.
Had the 3 mediums been even remotely intimidating & effective instead of missing to hit rolls on 5's & 7's then things might have gone differently.

Results.
All 5 players survived w/ some damage, the infantry were still inside, the Wolverine was missing its head & the Whiteworth & Clint were functional but damaged.

Pay = Win  ($350K)
Bonus = No   ($0)
Salvage = Wolverine-6R
XP = 15 + 1 Kill = 16
New Gear = 3 Uses of SRM Inferno Ammo in the future, if you have not earned this ability before.


As the GM, I think the only way to play the trucks is to Sprint-10 on Turn-1 & Flank-7 Turn-2 into base w/ building & drop off the infantry
Do vehicles still pay 1MP to drop off?  I thought I recall some errata change to that.
Of course If that is the case I didn't recall it at the game & that might have changed things a lot.

The nature of drop off / pick up means the trucks are standing around getting shot at far too long, IMHO.

Some changes I would make.
1.  Move the building a hex away from the trees.
2.  Change the trucks to be Heavy APCs.  Either Hover for the speed, or tracked if you don't move the building.
3.  Allow the trucks to enter the building to load up & not drive around getting shot at.
4.  Reduce the time needed to be in the building
5.  Allow the infantry to shoot units that get too close to the building.
6.  Make the infantry motorized so they can run away at 3 MP even if the trucks get destroyed or cross the light woods in 1 turn if dropped off early.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #95 on: 21 November 2021, 09:19:26 »
I have it written down the Wolverine tripped on turn 3 which means it would have gotten shot in the head turn 4.  Dang, that Wolverine had a tough time didn't it?  I know I was gunning for it the whole match, but those rolls were kind of unlucky.

I don't think this was an unfair fight, a lot of what happened was just bad luck on the wolverine's part, and taking that last shot left my locust with just a small laser (granted I wouldn't have been taking a 2 mod if the Wolverine hadn't become so vulnerable)  Plenty of other damage to go around.  Seems to me most of it is a lack of time pressure to do something about the trucks/infantry and split our fire accordingly.

Admittedly, I waffled a bit on a move or two, but of the four games I have been in, three have been 6-7 turns, so it doesn't seem unusual to me.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #96 on: 21 November 2021, 17:32:01 »
Exactly, if we pull off 2 turns per hour that is normally moving along.

The game was limited to 4 hours v/s 5-7 like some of our long ago days but the single mechs for each player does speed things up.


As I plot it out I'm just not sure how a normal paced game gets the infantry off the board.

Turn-1  =  MUST Sprint
Turn-2  =  MUST Flank/Sprint & Drop Off Infantry
Turn-3  =  Infantry Enter the Building.
Turn-4-6 = Infantry Steal stuff for 3 full turns
Turn-7 = Infantry Leave Building
Turn-8 = Infantry Load up in Truck
Turn-9 = MUST Flank/Sprint
Turn-10 = MUST Sprint & get off board.

Unless I'm mis-remembering how infantry loading works, the absolute fastest you can be back off the board is Turn-10 if everything works perfectly & the GM is using the Sprinting optional Rules.

I flanked & could not make it in range by Turn-2 using a straight shot w/ no turns or terrain. 
It left them a hex or 2 short & being Foot Infantry they couldn't get into the building on the following turn.
So a Non-Sprinting game is turn 12 minimum.

We use sprinting so that is cool but I'm just gauging this on balance for tables that stick to TW only.


It's a bit hard to judge since my rolls were WAY below average at all the wrong times.

But the time factor just seemed way out of wack to accomplish the goal.

Not that I want it any harder on the PCs that it has been before  (Looking at you Mission #3)  but I'm also looking at if something is impossible for the GM to do.

I'm wondering if Joel's building was flanked by trees the way mine was, that 1 placement issue caused some serious delay since it stopped any deployment along 1 of the closer edges/flanks of the building.

And as I mentioned above, I think there might have been a rules change in how carried infantry load/unload that made things easier but we didn't use.

« Last Edit: 21 November 2021, 17:37:59 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #97 on: 14 December 2021, 11:52:36 »
Sunday the 12th of December at Games U event.

Mission #2

Player Mechs & Skills - IIRC
Crab  (4/4)
Panther-9R  (3/5)
Javelin-10F  (4/4)
Raven-2X  (4/5)
Locust-1V  (4/5)


GM Units & Skills - IIRC
Wolverine-6R  (4/5)
Centurion-9A  (4/5)
Clint-2-3T  (3/4)
Valkyrie-QA  (4/5)
Stinger-3G  (4/5)
+4 Flat Bed Trucks (Armor)
+4 Foot Infantry Platoons (Ballistic)


Outcome.
The players got basic victory points.
No special mission award for scan/capture.
All 5 players were alive & mechs survived w/o being crippled, though, quite a bit of damage was racking up.
The players were able to wound/cripple the Clint & Valkyrie
Some of the infantry got savaged a bit but I don't think any of it was dead.
Ditto the trucks where maybe? 1 had died.

I think we got in 8 turns in 4 hours

Thoughts...

I'm still wondering about the opposition levels combined w/ the goals.
It seems we are facing the same level BV often against larger slower mechs & also having to split our time w/ goals.
Speed helps in a duel but when your forced to slow down or even just occupy a certain area, it sort of negates the effect of speed & allows those bigger mediums to just "head to the kill zone"

In a straight up fight I think there would be more room for some of the lights to function more, but, these maps are pretty congested & forcing the fight to be a big dogpile in the middle.

I guess the lack of actual repairs & still getting paid even if you die compensates for that, but it also feels like the campaign would be a series of near wins or small losses which affects progression.

If it wasn't for this increased pace of some people attending multiple games I'm not sure how the $$ or XP would ever add up to what I've heard is needed by the end of Season-2.


But regardless of the balance issues fun was had all around.  Thanks to Ian for his work running it as GM.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #98 on: 13 June 2022, 13:05:10 »
Went to the game yesterday & we had 7 players so I ended up GMing for Mission 1.6 on the West Table.

3 Players Force as I remember it.
Griffin-1N (2/4)  +  RangerMaster/Long & Human TRO & Intimidation
Centurion-9A  (3/5)  +  For the Chancellor & Edge x2
Valkyrie-QA  (4/5)  +  Tactical Genius
Scorpion Tank  (4/5)


OP-4    (All 4/5 w/o Special Abilities)
WarHammer-6D
BlackJack-1?  (Original AC2/ML model)
Valkyrie-QA
Wasp-1D
3 Hidden Platoons of Foot Infantry Rifles/MGs?


4 City Maps & LOTS of blocked LOS but also several JJ mechs to get up high.


The players had hellacious luck w/ initiative at first winning something like first 4 turns & before I got 1 & then they got 2 more.
That said, the last 5 turns of the game I got all but 1 win so it balanced out like 7/5 in the end.

Shooting on the other hand was all to the players, I couldn't hit a dang thing, seriously, 6 turns in I'd hit 1x.

I initially moved out to get the fight going even though playing hide & seek would have been EASY on this map from turn-1 as my force had far more close in firepower but I wanted to get a brawl going early.
That sort of shot me in the butt since they removed the RA PPC on the Hammer & were working through the RT as well before I pulled back into cover.

Griffin was sniping from range most the game & the Valkyrie had to flank around to go for shots w/o getting mugged. 
The Scorp rolled up the other flank & was mostly out of combat till the end, which left the Centurion to play brawler & work up the middle.

I was starting to get worried that they would never get close to my infantry & had to start hiding for a turn or 2 to get them to move in but then when I lost initiative on Turn-8, it worked out in my favor since I jumped in mechs behind the Centurion blocking its ability to go backwards & forcing it to face the Warhammer which was coming back out from cover.  2 turns of gang fire & it exploded which finally gave me some room to breath.
The Wasp sadly took a single ML to the head via floating crit TAC which turned into 3 total crits, 2 LS & 1 Sensors so it was mostly a distraction for the rest of the game which is how I used it to "taunt" via scenario ability & ruin a few turns of fire from the Griffin by redirecting it to the Wasp (Missed) and Black Jack (Hit but it was pristine)

In the end the Scorp also got too close & took massed fire a couple times & died.
The Valk started spotting for IDF from the Griffin when I was hiding behind buildings which finally left him facing fire from the Warhammer & Valkyrie at the same time.
He soaked it up well but at that point it was 12 turns & the Host GM said it was time to head out.


The Op-4 mechs had all taken fire & all but the Valk were fairly chewed up in 1 way or another.  1 of the Infantry Platoons was down 3 squads or so.
The Griffin had minor armor damage but doubt the player Valk wouldn't have survived another round of massed fire from his mirror & the Whammer.

The players had a decent edge in BV & the special pilot abilities but were a solid counter to the overall better selection of "brawler" mechs in the Op-4 & Urban map sheets that restricted LOS & ranged fire in many cases.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #99 on: 18 September 2022, 02:15:17 »
First Game played at Athoria Games (The old Game Depot) in over 2 years today!

Great turn out with 10+ people for "Mission 2.2".

Joel GM'd the West Table with the 6 players in Light Mechs, while the guys in Medium/Heavy mechs w/ Vet+ Skills were on the East Table.


West Table Player Force:
Panther-9R
Panther-9R
Javelin-10F
Javelin-10F
Mongoose-67
Locust-1E
+ NPC's to be Rescued
Rifleman-3N
Centurion-9A

GM Force (All 3/4 Vets)
Dragon-1G "Grand Dragon"
QuickDraw-4?  (Base Model)
Panther-9R
Jenner-7D
Wasp-1K


Scenario:
The NPCs Mercs have to get through the Drac mechs & the Players are coming in from the edge the NPCs need to get to diagonal from where they start.
Dracs are set up middle of the board.

Turn-1 the Dracs split up with the QuickDraw & Panther moving to intercept the Lights while the other 3 move to stop the NPCs from escaping.

For a few turns the Dracs were hitting better & the players couldn't seem to hit much.

The Players plowed right through the 2 blockers with TJ's Javelin pushing to get into the back field to help the NPCs.

GM Joel finally won initiative in Turn-3?  And was able to knock down the Centurion & things were looking bad.

Then, between Turn 4 & 5 we had 2 sets of 12's that crit the CT of 2 enemy mechs. 
I think it was my Mongoose on the Panther & One of the Javelins onto one of the Heavies?
Combined w/ the rest of the fire mechs started falling down.
Suddenly things were shifting.
The Locust & 2nd Javelin broke off to make for the backfield while the 2 Panthers & Mongoose worked to finish off the Quickdraw & Panther.

By turn-6 the Wasp had been De-Legged when got close to the Rifleman.  It tried to prop & fire & got kicked again for that.
The Centurion never got back up after the earlier Hip hit since it was down to 3 points internal on the leg.
The Dragon had the Javelin & Locust doing a Conga Line in its back arc that even the Jenner couldn't break them off of.
It eventually died to a punch to the back of the head from TJ's Javelin.
The Panther & Quickdraw both died & the rest of the team turned towards the last mech.

The Jenner stuck around trying to kill the Centurion while dodging fire from 4 mechs, but after a turn of that decided leaving was a good idea on Turn-7 & retreated off the board.

All players survived & the Centurion still had 1 MP w/ its Missing Leg so it could in time get away.

Win w/ Bonus for the players!

Joel had horrible initiative dice once again, while the players had many WHIFFS at first only to make up for it with a couple of key crit rolls in the mid game that swung things fully in their favor.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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