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Author Topic: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ  (Read 10465 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #90 on: 15 November 2021, 12:59:07 »
So I have a couple questions about Mission 01-01 & the campaign in regards to the XP rewards for vehicle kills & the Infantry from 01-01


First up.
   Are the vehicles in mission 01-01 supposed to count for XP rewards?

1.  The PC's mission record sheets asks for a full tally of Mechs/Vehicles killed
2.  The rules packet declare a "Combat Vehicle" as anything that isn't a APC, Support Truck, non-combatant.
3.  The GM's XP reward sheet for Mission 01-01 only says 1XP per Mech Kill w/ nothing about Vehicles.

The vehicles are a variant of the basic "APC" but they are a model that drops the Cargo space for more guns.  So not an APC then?

I've played twice now & its been ruled differently each time so I'm just looking for clarity since the 3 reference sheets do not line up exactly.


2nd Question:
  What kind of Infantry are those supposed to be?

1.  Listed as 10 Man "Platoons"
2.  5 MP  ??   (Only Hover/Mechanized NON-Support Platoons have 5 MP)
3.  Noted as being Motorized + Wheeled?    (Are they Motorized or Mechanized/Wheeled?)   
4.  Either 3PM Motorized or 4 MP Wheeled.   
5.  Either they can enter Trees or they can't.   (Motorized Can - Wheeled/Mechanized, Can NOT)
6.  Double Damage from Mech Weapons = Mechanized.
7.  If Wheeled/Mechanized then they get the +1 Paved bonus, but Motorized does not.  (IIRC)
8.  Source of the Stats?  Are these canon platoon from somewhere?


The GM ruling was all over the place at one point following 1 rule & at another a different & he mentioned its unclear what they are so I'm asking for clarification from the Writer as to what these are supposed to be for future reference
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Joel47

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #91 on: 15 November 2021, 13:23:24 »
Note that the missions have been updated since you played them the first time two years ago, fixing small errors.
I probably mistakenly gave out XP for the APCs, forgetting that they're not real combat vehicles. I'm not going to go back and fix that for people who played in my recent games, both because of the logistics involved and because in both games at least one APC nearly got a mech kill. (Silly Locust, MGs are scary!) Whatever the GM interprets that game stands, but we'll try to clarify things going forward.

The infantry appear to be non-canon, because unlike everything else there's no source given in the GM packet. I treated them as mechanized (road bonus), and had them take damage according to the table in the GM packet.

It's important to realize that this campaign has a bit of an RPG element to it -- story trumps rules in an RPG, and scenario rules trump general rules here. Don't overthink it.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #92 on: 15 November 2021, 13:59:28 »
Honestly, I'd call them a combat vehicle.

They have no cargo space.  They have Four guns on them and can take a PPC hit to every side.
  One of them took fire from several mechs & kept on going.

10 Tons they might be, but this is light mechs, I'm assuming there won't even BE a "REAL" combat vehicle like a Manticore in any of our games because it would kill off 2-3 mechs before it dies.

They have no cargo & double weapons, yet a Maxim if it showed up, has 3 tons of cargo.

The above is clearly an example of how "APC, Support Truck, or Other Non-Combatant" can be misread.

To me if its shooting at you 4 times & is fast enough to outrun anything but a Locust then its a combatant.

I'm honestly just looking for clarity in how the rules are read based on the wording in the campaign doc v/s the player mission record sheet v/s the GM mission record sheet all being 3 different things.

/cough..... Somebody dial 911-EDITOR

I'm less concerned fixing the past then just getting a concrete ruling on the writers intent & how to rule things in the future.
Something like  "2 MG or less = APC,  or,  10% or More Tonnage in Cargo = APC",  or has to have Both of the above... would be clarifying.


Ditto the infantry, I'm not trying to "overthink" it,  I'm just looking for a concrete understanding of what the item is in front of me, before I attempt to attack it & then it doesn't take damage the way it should & I've set up my attack run already & now I'm a sitting duck, etc etc.

Even something as simple as "Best of Both Worlds for Motorized/Mechanized in any decision for the Infantry" because its 4 platoons of Periphery Edition Captain America Super Soldiers.

I get RPG but knowing what the unit in front of you can do is a pretty big part of the tactical aspect of the game, IE,
 it can or can't move through that line of Light Woods,  it can or can't take Double Damage from SRMs & B-Pods, etc etc.


I don't have any issue with "special" units either, I just want to know the full details of it & not find out after something has failed.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #93 on: 15 November 2021, 14:08:52 »
Regardless of Rules questions above.

The game yesterday at Game-U was fun.

5 Player Mechs
Panther-9R
Raven-2X
Firefly-?
Javelin-10F
Valkyrie-QA


4 Enemy Mechs
Assassin-23
Firestarter-9?
Panther-8Z
Wasp-1D

2 Enemy Vehicles
Wheeled-APC-Weapons Variant MG

4 Infantry Units  (40 Men)
10 Man Super Soldier Squads complete with Rocket powered Motorcycles  ;)


The Raven lost a leg towards the end.

The enemy Panther was cored.
The Firestarter lost a leg & bailed out  (Captured)

Both APCs down.
1 APC went down at the door, the other was retreating when it was killed.
3 Platoons totaling 6 men made it into the depot
They were declared destroyed when at 1 turn left they were finally able to exit.

Assassin & Wasp both retreated over the water & despite trying to chase down the Wasp in my Javelin, 2 jumping mechs does not make for good to-hit roles.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #94 on: 21 November 2021, 02:59:18 »
So here is a quick recap of today's game at the table I was GMing at Silver Key for Mission 01-02

5 Player Mechs  (A few advanced pilots in the mix)
Firefly-?
Javelin-10N
Commando-2B ?  The LL/SRM2 one
Locust-1E
Locust-1V


3 Enemy Mechs
Wolverine-6R
Clint-2-3T
Whitworth-1

Also along for the ride were a platoon of Flatbed Truck (Armor) models each carrying a Foot Infantry Platoon.



GM Team, all run up the middle, go go go.   Players entered split along a wide line.
Turn-1  Everyone Ran/Flanked
Turn-2  Flank wouldn't quite get the trucks there so several cruised & the mechs started to spread out.  Long range fire from AC's & LRMs
Turn-3  3 Trucks got next to the depot & dropped off infantry.   No room for the last so it cruised & got into position   Possibly 1 round of Building Scanning done here.
Turn-4  Infantry into building  - 4th truck drops off the kids.   I think this is the round the Wolverine gets kicked & fails PSR & falls over & also fails avoid pilot damage.
Turn-5  4th Platoon into building.  Trucks just drive around trying to build up TMM & hide.  Wolverine takes a head hit here for 2nd pilot hit.
Turn-6  Wolverine fails 2nd PSR from being kicked by a light mech & 2nd avoid pilot damage check for 3rd Pilot Hit - Fails the nappy time 7-check & is asleep.
Turn-7  Wolverine is fired on & 2 SL stack on head & head destroyed.

I've left off most the other info.   
To summarize.......
Commando hid & sniped w/ rangemaster ability
Locusts ran in circles & kicked things if they could
Javelin played bouncy bouncy with the Clint & scanned 1x in round 3-5 range.
Firefly moved or parked & fired LRMs/MLs at stuff.
Whitworth got on a hill & fired LRMs all day.

Things that went wrong.
I didn't think about using Sprinting ability for the Trucks, it took far to long to off load & get inside.
  This is on me but should we have to depend on an optional rule that not everyone uses just to be able to pull off the mission goal?
Joel sprinted on his board & dropped off 4 platoons on turn 2 where as I got 3 on turn 3 & 1 on turn 4.
The nature of no movement on dropoff by the infantry, foot being only 1 MP & the fact that the building was flanked by 2 tree hexes & the trucks can't enter the trees was a bad set up IMO.

This game was decided by the rules for how long the infantry have to sit around in the building & yet the trucks & infantry can't shoot or physical back so its just on the 3 mechs to deal w/ 5 faster mechs.

Joel's table got in twice the # of turns than we did.  Not sure how.  I know the players were a bit slow on their movement decisions but still, twice the # of turns makes me think we were doing something way wrong.
Yet, 7 turns in 4 hours isn't a horrible rate for our normal games so I'm thinking its more that Joel's table was moving like lighting.

My infantry was not going to be able to leave the building till Turn 8.
Which means mounting up on Turn 9.
With sprinting again meaning Turn 11 as the soonest you can get off the board.
I'm just not seeing how the infantry had any chance of escape.

Of course all of this is all much worse because the Wolverine failed every PSR known to man & had minor armor damage but an unconscious pilot by turn 6.
Had the 3 mediums been even remotely intimidating & effective instead of missing to hit rolls on 5's & 7's then things might have gone differently.

Results.
All 5 players survived w/ some damage, the infantry were still inside, the Wolverine was missing its head & the Whiteworth & Clint were functional but damaged.

Pay = Win  ($350K)
Bonus = No   ($0)
Salvage = Wolverine-6R
XP = 15 + 1 Kill = 16
New Gear = 3 Uses of SRM Inferno Ammo in the future, if you have not earned this ability before.


As the GM, I think the only way to play the trucks is to Sprint-10 on Turn-1 & Flank-7 Turn-2 into base w/ building & drop off the infantry
Do vehicles still pay 1MP to drop off?  I thought I recall some errata change to that.
Of course If that is the case I didn't recall it at the game & that might have changed things a lot.

The nature of drop off / pick up means the trucks are standing around getting shot at far too long, IMHO.

Some changes I would make.
1.  Move the building a hex away from the trees.
2.  Change the trucks to be Heavy APCs.  Either Hover for the speed, or tracked if you don't move the building.
3.  Allow the trucks to enter the building to load up & not drive around getting shot at.
4.  Reduce the time needed to be in the building
5.  Allow the infantry to shoot units that get too close to the building.
6.  Make the infantry motorized so they can run away at 3 MP even if the trucks get destroyed or cross the light woods in 1 turn if dropped off early.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #95 on: 21 November 2021, 09:19:26 »
I have it written down the Wolverine tripped on turn 3 which means it would have gotten shot in the head turn 4.  Dang, that Wolverine had a tough time didn't it?  I know I was gunning for it the whole match, but those rolls were kind of unlucky.

I don't think this was an unfair fight, a lot of what happened was just bad luck on the wolverine's part, and taking that last shot left my locust with just a small laser (granted I wouldn't have been taking a 2 mod if the Wolverine hadn't become so vulnerable)  Plenty of other damage to go around.  Seems to me most of it is a lack of time pressure to do something about the trucks/infantry and split our fire accordingly.

Admittedly, I waffled a bit on a move or two, but of the four games I have been in, three have been 6-7 turns, so it doesn't seem unusual to me.

Hellraiser

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Re: Battletech "Missions" Campaign, Tempe AZ
« Reply #96 on: 21 November 2021, 17:32:01 »
Exactly, if we pull off 2 turns per hour that is normally moving along.

The game was limited to 4 hours v/s 5-7 like some of our long ago days but the single mechs for each player does speed things up.


As I plot it out I'm just not sure how a normal paced game gets the infantry off the board.

Turn-1  =  MUST Sprint
Turn-2  =  MUST Flank/Sprint & Drop Off Infantry
Turn-3  =  Infantry Enter the Building.
Turn-4-6 = Infantry Steal stuff for 3 full turns
Turn-7 = Infantry Leave Building
Turn-8 = Infantry Load up in Truck
Turn-9 = MUST Flank/Sprint
Turn-10 = MUST Sprint & get off board.

Unless I'm mis-remembering how infantry loading works, the absolute fastest you can be back off the board is Turn-10 if everything works perfectly & the GM is using the Sprinting optional Rules.

I flanked & could not make it in range by Turn-2 using a straight shot w/ no turns or terrain. 
It left them a hex or 2 short & being Foot Infantry they couldn't get into the building on the following turn.
So a Non-Sprinting game is turn 12 minimum.

We use sprinting so that is cool but I'm just gauging this on balance for tables that stick to TW only.


It's a bit hard to judge since my rolls were WAY below average at all the wrong times.

But the time factor just seemed way out of wack to accomplish the goal.

Not that I want it any harder on the PCs that it has been before  (Looking at you Mission #3)  but I'm also looking at if something is impossible for the GM to do.

I'm wondering if Joel's building was flanked by trees the way mine was, that 1 placement issue caused some serious delay since it stopped any deployment along 1 of the closer edges/flanks of the building.

And as I mentioned above, I think there might have been a rules change in how carried infantry load/unload that made things easier but we didn't use.

« Last Edit: 21 November 2021, 17:37:59 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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