Clan Nova Cat took a dive?

[FaithBomb]

*Spoiler alert* So I just finished reading Shadow of Death by Randal Bills...and I'm left wondering what just happened. Some in the Nova Cats sabotaged the fight so they would lose and get mauled because of Biccon Winters vision???

[rebs]

It's the Battle of Tukayyid.  Where everyone got their butts kicked royally.   Except Clan Wolf. 

[PhoeniX0302]

I had to read that passage again because I was dumb struck by it as well. I mean, I knew the Cats are driven by visions but risking everything for the chance to finally get back to Terra?! Seems odd to me, though we have seen what leaders in Clan society are willing to do what in their mind is right.

Still, I wonder if this is connected to the Cats joining the Second Star League and the fight against the Wobbies later on. I doubt that the description of the vision at that fateful meeting really describes Tukayyid...

[Metallgewitter]

Interestingly enough in the Era report 3052 the Loremaster of the Nova Cats wanted to attack Anastasius Focht when he first entered the Dire Wolf because she claimed he was a "white fog that would destroy the Clans" I think it was something along the lines. This instead sound like they did a 180 within a short time span.

[Decoy]

Poor Novacats. So badly burned by visions. No wonder they try to quit them by the end.

[Guardian11]

Interestingly enough in the Era report 3052 the Loremaster of the Nova Cats wanted to attack Anastasius Focht when he first entered the Dire Wolf because she claimed he was a "white fog that would destroy the Clans" I think it was something along the lines. This instead sound like they did a 180 within a short time span.

That scene is actually in Shadow of Death.

It could be that a victory at Tukayyid would lead to wars both between the IS and the Clans, and among the Clans that would lead to the destruction of the Nova Cats. While the current war for the IlClan may very well result in the resurrection of the Nova Cats. Also, a victorious Clan Nova Cat may have been strong enough and prestigious enough that they would have been chosen for Annihilation rather than the Smoke Jaguars, and without their devastation on Tukayyid the Nova Cats may have never chosen to side with the 2nd Star League. Although only a Trinary of Nova Cats survived Tukayyid, the Cats contributed heavily towards ComGuard losses.

[nckestrel]

Or the visions are:
1) fake
2) false
3) not very useful
4) useful to the wrong people

[Rncavenger]

After reading this and Tokkayyid book its all make sense. Lack of cooperation and individual ambitions of clans vs unity of Inners sphere  would be resulted  in all clans destroyed  if they take Terra.  In that time clans didnt ready.  "Enemy older than inner sphere" - ignorance and ambitions of clans .
 In 3150 clans more willing to cooperate (Alaric , clan protectorate , even golden ordun))  and inner sphere now just SHATTERED sphere.

[Fallen_Raven]

Some in the Nova Cats sabotaged the fight so they would lose and get mauled because of Biccon Winters vision???

That's one interpretation. Another is that the Nova Cats realized the Invasion was rushing to get the Clans surrounded by a massively larger opposition that wouldn't surrender because the Clan rules said so. The potential truce offered by Comstar would have bought time to solidify the new occupation and build long term logistics networks for a real war, and the vision was useful pretext for why they sandbagged. The Nova Cats are often written so its impossible to say how much is belief in mystical visions and how much is savvy moves by insightful politicians.

[DarkISI]

They believe in their visions to a fault.

FYI: I wrote the Nova Cat section in Tukayyid before Randall wrote Shadows of Death. And they fit together so perfectly. Randall took so many small details and questions from my writeup and integrated them into his short story. Was really awesome, from a writer's point of view.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The Nova Cats are often written so its impossible to say how much is belief in mystical visions and how much is savvy moves by insightful politicians.

And how much is the leadership being off their meds.

[Dragon Cat]

And how much is the leadership being off their meds.

Thats the Scorpions

[rebs]

Thats the Scorpions

No way, it is when the Scorpions take their meds that they ****** up the most.   

No successful battle began with she/he took necrosia...

[CJC070]

No way, it is when the Scorpions take their meds that they ****** up the most.

No successful battle began with she/he took necrosia...

It can be both.  Always remember there’s a thin line between insanity and genius.  We just don’t know where the writers put it.

[DarkISI]

It can be both.  Always remember there’s a thin line between insanity and genius.  We just don’t know where the writers put it.

We are definitely insane geniuses.
The Nova Cats ... Battletech always toyed with the supernatural just close enough so you couldn't tell whether or not it is really there. That's how I try to keep it.

[Dragon Cat]

We are definitely insane geniuses.
The Nova Cats ... Battletech always toyed with the supernatural just close enough so you couldn't tell whether or not it is really there. That's how I try to keep it.

I've always liked that element of the Nova Cat story.  I haven't liked the results as much, then again that wasn't the only thing that went wrong for them in the storyline

I haven't read this story yet as I'm buying them when they get released together but I'm looking forward to it

[Orwell84]

The Nova Cats ... Battletech always toyed with the supernatural just close enough so you couldn't tell whether or not it is really there. That's how I try to keep it.

Thumbs up for that. I like supernatural / religious elements in sci-fi being handled that way. Battlestar Galactica was a prime example of how to successfully do it (until season 3 when it came down too explicitly on the religious side), and Battletech by and large has managed to balance it as well.

I've always liked that element of the Nova Cat story.  I haven't liked the results as much, then again that wasn't the only thing that went wrong for them in the storyline

Agree with both sentences. Much like the oft-quoted example of Croesus being told by the Oracle that if he went to war with Cyrus a mighty empire would fall, the Cats don't seem to have thought things through before acting on their visions.

Although there are hints in recent material that the Nova Cats may yet be an active Clan within a reborn Star League, if Alaric has his way, so perhaps the visions weren't totally wrong after all.

[DarkISI]

Although there are hints in recent material that the Nova Cats may yet be an active Clan within a reborn Star League, if Alaric has his way, so perhaps the visions weren't totally wrong after all.

We will have to see. I ohrases the Background text I. Tukayyid ambiguous, so you could guess. But even I really don't know. But revealing it either way with Kisho still MIA wasn't an option. Kisho alive and Alaric IlKhan mightead to a revival of the Nova Cats.
We will have to see how both of them turn out.

[Trajan Helmer]

If there is a Nova Cat vision I'm interested in seeing come to fruition, it would be Sandra Rosse's vision of the Cats and Jaguars combining as a single Clan to savage their foes. With Alaric's plans, this could be an unintended consequence that could upset an applecart or two.

[rebs]

The Smoke Cats.  That would be most excellent.  We always knew the Nova Cats were smoking something.

[Takiro]

Don't forget there were some serious internal divisions within the Nova Cats in 3052. They were a Crusader Clan who just took a butt kicking on Luthien which could cause plenty of fractures.

I do find it curious that the innovators of the ER Large Laser ran out of ammo... didn't see that one coming ... or did they!

[rebs]

Yes, foresight didn't help them that way. 

Luthien and Tukayyid hit them back to back. 

I think they lost most of their Crusader warriors that way.  Rather like the Diamond Sharks, actually.   

[CJC070]

The Smoke Cats.  That would be most excellent.  We always knew the Nova Cats were smoking something.

To me as long as they don’t rise up and becoming to clannish.  I have always found the clans like the Ghost Bears, Scorpions and the Sea Foxes more interesting after they changed from “invade the Inner Sphere” to let’s do our own thing.  I doubt we will see the Fidelis become true clans due to their history but also the current crop of writers creating fewer factions not more.

[rebs]

That's true, too.  The factions were being parred down for a while.  The Wars of Reaving is a dramatic example of that. 

We may yet lose more factions, too.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Don't forget there were some serious internal divisions within the Nova Cats in 3052. They were a Crusader Clan who just took a butt kicking on Luthien which could cause plenty of fractures.

I do find it curious that the innovators of the ER Large Laser ran out of ammo... didn't see that one coming ... or did they!

Iirc they were told by their own Khans to load up on ballistic weapons.

[CJC070]

That's true, too.  The factions were being parred down for a while.  The Wars of Reaving is a dramatic example of that. 

We may yet lose more factions, too.

Hopefully more like the scorpion empire where they become part of a bigger group but manage to keep a part of themselves that makes them unique.  Instead of being wiped out and never heard of again.
 

[DarkISI]

Iirc they were told by their own Khans to load up on ballistic weapons.

And their Khan's plan was to lose Tukayyid badly. Might there be a connection...?

[Talen5000]

*Spoiler alert* So I just finished reading Shadow of Death by Randal Bills...and I'm left wondering what just happened. Some in the Nova Cats sabotaged the fight so they would lose and get mauled because of Biccon Winters vision???

Nova Cat visions are fake...or, at least, twisted by the leaders to justify their own actions.

Witness their decision to assist the IS against the Jaguar...this action led to their Abjuration, led to the decimation of their Touman, prompted the Trial of Retribution which gutted their navy, placed them under the control of the Combine which led to their humiliation and ghettoisation, prompted the Clans to treat them with disdain which explains their treatment during the 2nd Bear-Combine War and ultimately led to the rebellion and near destruction of the Clan.

Hardly a stunning success.

[Talen5000]

If there is a Nova Cat vision I'm interested in seeing come to fruition, it would be Sandra Rosse's vision of the Cats and Jaguars combining as a single Clan to savage their foes. With Alaric's plans, this could be an unintended consequence that could upset an applecart or two.

Not sure which vision you are referring to, but it possibly refers to Operation Bulldog and what could have been if the Cats had not betrayed the Clans

[Rncavenger]

Nova Cat visions are fake...or, at least, twisted by the leaders to justify their own actions.

Witness their decision to assist the IS against the Jaguar...this action led to their Abjuration, led to the decimation of their Touman, prompted the Trial of Retribution which gutted their navy, placed them under the control of the Combine which led to their humiliation and ghettoisation, prompted the Clans to treat them with disdain which explains their treatment during the 2nd Bear-Combine War and ultimately led to the rebellion and near destruction of the Clan.

Hardly a stunning success.

But also visions led to:
- support Devlin Stone and migration best part of Nova Cats touman from Combine
- Fidelis
- Kev Rosse and Rikkard visions led to Clan Protectorate creation

In time of Nova Cat rebellion they dont guided by visions and support kesari movement.