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Author Topic: Clan Smoke Jaguar 3050 - use of Mist Lynx as Elemental Carriers?  (Read 1129 times)

Wargame_insomniac

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Good evening. I am going to apologise in afvance for any contractions - in my defence I am a total spheroid! ;D

My main focus is on building up my Inner Sphere forces once Wave 1 releases actually reach UK again. But as as aside I have done a rough ready look at what Clan forces I could pull together from the couple of Clan Stars I have recently picked up plus some single mechs online.

With both Dire Wolf's and Warhawks, that nudges me towards Clan Smoke Jaguars. But glancing at record sheets they are SLOW.... I can get some speed from having Stormcrow's as well as faster Heavy Omnimechs. But I was wondering if several Mist Lynx carrying Elementals would be a good thematic way of getting extra speed in Clan Smoke Jaguar? And also dilute any complaints (from potential opponents) of facing multiple Dire Wolf's and Warhawks (I want it to be a fun game for both of us).

If I was eventually to aim for a full Trinary of Omnimechs (with 1 Assault Star, 1 Heavy Star and 1 Recon Star) then I could currently get together four Mist Lynx for the bulk of a Recon Star, with their 7/11/6 movement to quickly get their Elementals to the enemy. I am currently short by one for a full Recon Star (or Nova if I include the Elementals they are carrying).

-Firstly would that be a good use of my four Clan Smoke Jaguar Mist Lynx?

-Secondly would you recommend any of Dragonfly, Adder or Fire Moth as the final 5th mech for that Recon Star? Or should I try and get a 5th Mist Lynx??!!  ;D

Please note that I am choosing initially to stick to the initial 16 mechs from Clan Invasion period as this is my first time ever collecting Clan Force. So no other mechs even if they had an intoduction date pre-3050. I want to get as far as a full Trinary of the original classics before I start adding what to me are the newer Clan designs.

Cheers

Weirdo

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-Firstly would that be a good use of my four Clan Smoke Jaguar Mist Lynx?
Absolutely!
Quote

-Secondly would you recommend any of Dragonfly, Adder or Fire Moth as the final 5th mech for that Recon Star?

Any of those would indeed work, as would the Fenris. The Jaguars have access to all of those designs. Honestly, they have access to every single one of the base 16 Omnis you're wanting to work with. :thumbsup:
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Empyrus

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Mist Lynxes are good Elemental carrier choice to be sure. Good mobility, weapons mostly in the arms, so you can shoot while carrying them.

The Dragonfly or Fire Moth would be a good choice for the fifth Point in a Recon Star, whether or not it also carries Elementals. I'd lean toward the Dragonfly as it jumps like the Mist Lynxes. A commander's ride, perhaps.
The Adder is an interesting option as it adds firepower but its lack of mobility, relative to Mist Lynxes, could be a problem. Then again, it can hang back and snipe.

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Tyler Jorgensson

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As a Ghost Bear I’ve learned that a Viper is a better Elemental carrier than a Fire Moth, unless you need to go possibly 20 hexes rather than 12. Several variants have good EWAR equipment as well… and it’s armor is not as paper thin as the Fire Moth. It would work well as the commanders mech in the Star.

I’ve played several games with Mist Lynxes and they are not bad (as far as light mechs go). I prefer the LR variants personally (and some of the more modern variants) so I don’t have a good account of a 3050 variant that I like. But they are fast and mobile enough to get your Elementals where they need to be. Most are fairly cheap BV too.

Wargame_insomniac

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Mist Lynxes are good Elemental carrier choice to be sure. Good mobility, weapons mostly in the arms, so you can shoot while carrying them.

The Dragonfly or Fire Moth would be a good choice for the fifth Point in a Recon Star, whether or not it also carries Elementals. I'd lean toward the Dragonfly as it jumps like the Mist Lynxes. A commander's ride, perhaps.
The Adder is an interesting option as it adds firepower but its lack of mobility, relative to Mist Lynxes, could be a problem. Then again, it can hang back and snipe.
Thanks both - details such as wanting main weapons in arms so that can still shoot whilst carrying Elementals is great advice and is the sort of advice that I definitely need as a new Clan player.

I like the idea of Dragonfly as the recon Star Commander (once I can get hold of the Clan Heavy Striker Star Pack), with great speed and jump distance.

Absolutely!
Any of those would indeed work, as would the Fenris. The Jaguars have access to all of those designs. Honestly, they have access to every single one of the base 16 Omnis you're wanting to work with. :thumbsup:
My concern about the Fenris is the lack of Jump Jets  if the rest of the recon Star has them. Then again he could provide long-ranged covering fire with his ER PPC.

Cheers

Wargame_insomniac

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As a Ghost Bear I’ve learned that a Viper is a better Elemental carrier than a Fire Moth, unless you need to go possibly 20 hexes rather than 12. Several variants have good EWAR equipment as well… and it’s armor is not as paper thin as the Fire Moth. It would work well as the commanders mech in the Star.

I’ve played several games with Mist Lynxes and they are not bad (as far as light mechs go). I prefer the LR variants personally (and some of the more modern variants) so I don’t have a good account of a 3050 variant that I like. But they are fast and mobile enough to get your Elementals where they need to be. Most are fairly cheap BV too.

Cool - thanks

MarauderD

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As a fellow CSJ fan, I think four Mist Lynx and a Dragonfly would totally work.  A fast, jumpy star that can deploy your elementals to the front with a minimum of time expended.  Bonus for all the arm weapons that can still fire. 

Wargame_insomniac

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As a fellow CSJ fan, I think four Mist Lynx and a Dragonfly would totally work.  A fast, jumpy star that can deploy your elementals to the front with a minimum of time expended.  Bonus for all the arm weapons that can still fire.
Great thanks.

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And the Mist Lynx does have some pretty darn bitey configs, the B for example, dual ER Mediums and dual SRM-6's. You get one of those leap or run around behind you at close range and its ouchie time.

I think the Prime's a bit of a dogs egg because of the scattershot nature of the damage it can do, but in its defence its dirt cheap for a Clan 'Mech.
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MarauderD

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And the Mist Lynx does have some pretty darn bitey configs, the B for example, dual ER Mediums and dual SRM-6's. You get one of those leap or run around behind you at close range and its ouchie time.

I think the Prime's a bit of a dogs egg because of the scattershot nature of the damage it can do, but in its defence its dirt cheap for a Clan 'Mech.

And there is something to be said for saving your BV (or PV) for your Battle Star/Fire Star by skimping on your Elemental delivery forces.  I had good luck in my last AS game by using less impressive configs for my CSJ striker mechs (Mist Lynx, Grendel, Shadow Cat) and dumping that PV into my Fire Star (DW Widowmaker, DW Prime, Warhawk Prime, Summoner Prime, Mad Dog Prime IIRC).

Hellraiser

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I agree w/ Mad-D on the alternate options to the basic Dragonfly/IceFerret options.

An Arctic Cheetah would be a great options as would the Grendal or Shadow Cat.

Even a Kitfox-S would work to Jump & get those Elementals into difficult terrain.
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Colt Ward

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I’ve played several games with Mist Lynxes and they are not bad (as far as light mechs go). I prefer the LR variants personally (and some of the more modern variants) so I don’t have a good account of a 3050 variant that I like. But they are fast and mobile enough to get your Elementals where they need to be. Most are fairly cheap BV too.

The Mist Lynx C is my go to . . . ERLL & ERML in the arm (same one IIRC, yes it gets shot off), so yes it can move those elementals and it is relatively cheap on the BV.  Running around to take pot shots at 25 hexes while you move for the position to drop the BA works pretty well.  Even IF you jump and fire the ERLL, you are not going to overheat (12+6=18) since it takes the ERMLL to kick in.
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Wargame_insomniac

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I agree w/ Mad-D on the alternate options to the basic Dragonfly/IceFerret options.

An Arctic Cheetah would be a great options as would the Grendal or Shadow Cat.

Even a Kitfox-S would work to Jump & get those Elementals into difficult terrain.
I wanted to concentrate on initial 16 classic Omnimechs first so my first priority was getting the first 3 Clan Star Packs (which I will have soon) and Clan Invasion boxset (which will be my next purchase).

If I go beyond my initial planned Trinary then I have earmarked the likes of Stone Rhino, Ebon Jaguar and Artic Cheetah to add more variety whilst still emphasizing the Clan Smoke Jaguar flavour. But that is some way off.....

Wargame_insomniac

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Over the last couple of weeks I have been able to firm up my intended Clan Smoke Jaguar force and buy some of the Star Packs I was missing. My initial plan was for a Binary, but that became a Trinary almost immediately. After a bit of research (as I am still very new to the Clan side of Battletech) on both Sarna.net and here o this site, I knew I wanted the majority of the initial iconic (in my eyes) 16 Clan Invasion Omnimechs, and also to have some duplicates of CSJ favoured Omnis.

I ended up with selecting 20 Omnimechs (covering 12 of the initial 16) and 5 Elementals.

What would be the Clan description of 4 Stars - do they have a reinforced Trinary as the Clan equivalent of a Reinforced Company or Understrength Battalion? From what I have read a Cluster is the next level above a Trinary. I have seen a Cluster described as three to five Binaries / Trinaries.

Would a pair of Binaries be called an understrength Cluster?

What about adding the 5 Elemental to the aforementioned Recon Star. I undesrtand if that unit works and trains and fights together on a regular basis then qualify for the term of Nova. For a Binary, would the term Supernova Binary cover 10 Omnis + 10 Elementals, or could it cover 10 Omnis + 5 Elementals?

Trying to work out whether it would be called a Nova Binary or a Supernova Binary?

Thanks.

Hellraiser

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What would be the Clan description of 4 Stars - do they have a reinforced Trinary as the Clan equivalent of a Reinforced Company or Understrength Battalion?

I have seen a Cluster described as three to five Binaries / Trinaries.

Would a pair of Binaries be called an understrength Cluster?

What about adding the 5 Elemental to the aforementioned Recon Star. I undesrtand if that unit works and trains and fights together on a regular basis then qualify for the term of Nova.
 For a Binary, would the term Supernova Binary cover 10 Omnis + 10 Elementals, or could it cover 10 Omnis + 5 Elementals?

The clans don't really do "reinforced" unless you call it a Nova. 

IIRC, there is a rare 1-off example of 4 Stars in the Ghost Bear Keshiks but that's about it.

2 Binaries would indeed be the bottom end of the barrel for an "understrength" cluster.

Or you could call it 2 binaries or a single Trinary from a cluster and a separate cluster command star.  (Giving you room to grow)

The Elementals being a "Nova" "Supernova" or not depends on how you deploy them in the TO&E.

Are the elementals in the same star as the mechs?  THEN its a Nova.


"Mixed Trinary" = Mech Star, Mech Star, Elemental Star"

"SuperNova" = Mech Star,  Mech/Elemental NOVA

"Trinary" = Mech Star, Mech Star, Mech/Elemental NOVA

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Wargame_insomniac

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The clans don't really do "reinforced" unless you call it a Nova. 

IIRC, there is a rare 1-off example of 4 Stars in the Ghost Bear Keshiks but that's about it.

2 Binaries would indeed be the bottom end of the barrel for an "understrength" cluster.

Or you could call it 2 binaries or a single Trinary from a cluster and a separate cluster command star.  (Giving you room to grow)

The Elementals being a "Nova" "Supernova" or not depends on how you deploy them in the TO&E.

Are the elementals in the same star as the mechs?  THEN its a Nova.


"Mixed Trinary" = Mech Star, Mech Star, Elemental Star"

"SuperNova" = Mech Star,  Mech/Elemental NOVA

"Trinary" = Mech Star, Mech Star, Mech/Elemental NOVA
Thanks fr quick reply.

So my starting force would be either:
Supernova Binary plus a Binary
Trinary plus a Command Star

Which would be easier to expand upon later?

As I will probably be looking to add more mechs once this initial force painted? (When my recent purchases arrive I will have 18 out of the desired 20 starting force, with 1 more Star Pack and 1 Alphastrike Boxset needed to fill in my missing two initial Omnis).

Colt Ward

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Honestly, you can do either since as you got more minis you might end up shuffling their position.

The other fun consideration is that Clan forces are bid, and sometimes what you end up with is part of stars/novas.  IE, a star can be bid down to 3 points for one battle and the next it could be all 5.
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Wargame_insomniac

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Honestly, you can do either since as you got more minis you might end up shuffling their position.

The other fun consideration is that Clan forces are bid, and sometimes what you end up with is part of stars/novas.  IE, a star can be bid down to 3 points for one battle and the next it could be all 5.
Cool. I currently have one Ebon Jaguar, plan to next get a second plus a Stone Rhio and two Artic Cheetah's. They don't particularly fot at all as a Star so rejigging will be required.

Then a few IIC Battlemechs for a small second line Garrison force.....

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The Jags were in such bad shape after Tukayyid you could get away with a star or two of secondline machines as a 'temporary' measure until replacements arrive.
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Hellraiser

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Eventually I'd group the 2nd line machines into single units so the Omni stars can be Nova'd as needed.

But really, a TO&E is just a fun thing to play with & isn't likely to come into use for a game where your likely picking what you need for each game.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Eventually I'd group the 2nd line machines into single units so the Omni stars can be Nova'd as needed.

But really, a TO&E is just a fun thing to play with & isn't likely to come into use for a game where your likely picking what you need for each game.

This: which is a real shame to me because I personally love making unit compositions and imagining what they’d look like. It really bites making them based on BV (or points for AS).

I’d personally have two Stars of mechs and one Nova (Omni’s and Elementals) as a Trinary. I’d call it a Nova Trinary because it only had one Nova… fairly simple. With the last five (the biggest Omni’s) as the Command Star.

If I got more machines (especially second line) I’d split said Nova into a Command Star and go to Binaries… until I Upgraded them to Trinaries.

Two Trinaries can technically be considered a Cluster, just like two Clusters can be considered a Galaxy, but that’s EXTREMELY small and would definitely be a reserve/provisional Cluster (as far as fluff goes) 3-6 Binaries/Trinaries is the real description of a Cluster so fluff wise you could say ‘building’ or ‘awaiting replacements due to losses’ or ‘handpicked creation from the Khama orders’

Hellraiser

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I’d personally have two Stars of mechs and one Nova (Omni’s and Elementals) as a Trinary. I’d call it a Nova Trinary because it only had one Nova… fairly simple.

So I had this little project a few years back.
I was trying to figure out what to call a Binary/Trinary that was "Less than Full" of Novas.
I went with some examples from various scenario books & based on what I found, I created the "Rounding rule"

If it was 50% or More in Novas, then I called it a SuperNova, if it was Less, then I called it a Trinary.

So...
Star+Nova = SuperNova (Binary)
Star + 2x Novas = SuperNova (Trinary)
Star x2 + Nova = Trinary  (No Super-Nova here)

Not sure if its 100% accurate but I found some examples supporting the "Rounding" issue in canon rosters.
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Wargame_insomniac

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This: which is a real shame to me because I personally love making unit compositions and imagining what they’d look like. It really bites making them based on BV (or points for AS).

I’d personally have two Stars of mechs and one Nova (Omni’s and Elementals) as a Trinary. I’d call it a Nova Trinary because it only had one Nova… fairly simple. With the last five (the biggest Omni’s) as the Command Star.

If I got more machines (especially second line) I’d split said Nova into a Command Star and go to Binaries… until I Upgraded them to Trinaries.

Two Trinaries can technically be considered a Cluster, just like two Clusters can be considered a Galaxy, but that’s EXTREMELY small and would definitely be a reserve/provisional Cluster (as far as fluff goes) 3-6 Binaries/Trinaries is the real description of a Cluster so fluff wise you could say ‘building’ or ‘awaiting replacements due to losses’ or ‘handpicked creation from the Khama orders’
Thanks. With my 20 initial 3050 Clan Invasion mechs decided, and I know I want a minimum of 5 specific Mechs from later TRO's, I will end up between 25-30 CSJ Omni Mechs eventually, but I don't want to get carrid away too fast too soon by planning too big of a starting force.

I probably have another dozen or so mechs that will either eventually form a 2nd smaller Clan force, or be thrown in as a 2nd line unit, or be traded.

Hellraiser

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Yeah, its easy to get carried away with planning out huge TO&E formations & buying larger than needed volumes of minis, etc etc.
   (This is how you end up with regiments of unpainted, primer only, or still in the blister mechs........... I know this for a fact)

My suggestion for you is to figure out, from your existing minis, a few forces that you want/like to play based on the common BV your local group uses.

Once you have those criteria satisfied, THEN jump on painting up those minis so you can arrive to a game looking all spiffy w/ some proper, Non-Proxied, matched paint scheme, minis.

On the rare times I can sit down & paint lately, My own painting project dreams have recently taken a back seat to just covering the basics of what I need for my current playing needs for our ongoing Light Mech 3025 campaign.
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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Colt Ward

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Yeah, its easy to get carried away with planning out huge TO&E formations & buying larger than needed volumes of minis, etc etc.
   (This is how you end up with regiments of unpainted, primer only, or still in the blister mechs........... I know this for a fact)

This is why I have regiments and clusters of battle armor . . . heck, the way I do BA, I could probably create the Bear's Zeta Galaxy.  I had a pack of the IWM Elementals, the 3 on the stand types . . . I would separate them to one on a tiny stand to go in the same hex as a mech or veh.  I think there was like 25 in the blister, so that gave me 75 points which is regular BA cluster . . . then I got more triple Elemental stands in a lot buy.  Then my wife got me a blue labeled (Ral Partha?) unopened blister for Christmas a few years ago, so another 75 points- cluster #2.  Then we start talking about Salamanders, Gnomes, and Clan Med BA from the MWDA sets which also have 3 on a stand.

But I agree with Hellraiser . . . my stuff gets painted because I am going to use something I never used before in a game, painting a unit to use some of it in a game but doing a big batch, or I am painting a character specific mech like Trenton Marik's Rifleman or Alexia Wolf's Uziel.
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Hellraiser

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This is why I have regiments and clusters of battle armor . . . heck, the way I do BA, I could probably create the Bear's Zeta Galaxy.  I had a pack of the IWM Elementals, the 3 on the stand types . . . I would separate them to one on a tiny stand to go in the same hex as a mech or veh.  I think there was like 25 in the blister, so that gave me 75 points which is regular BA cluster . . . then I got more triple Elemental stands in a lot buy.  Then my wife got me a blue labeled (Ral Partha?) unopened blister for Christmas a few years ago, so another 75 points- cluster #2.  Then we start talking about Salamanders, Gnomes, and Clan Med BA from the MWDA sets which also have 3 on a stand.
Yep, I've said it before, but Same here.
I use single BA on Pennies about 10x more often then sticking a full 3-5 on a hex base.   I have a few hexes for flavor, but mostly singles to fit in the hex or at the feet of an Omnimech.


Quote
But I agree with Hellraiser . . . my stuff gets painted because I am going to use something I never used before in a game, painting a unit to use some of it in a game but doing a big batch, or I am painting a character specific mech like Trenton Marik's Rifleman or Alexia Wolf's Uziel.
My most recent batch of "non-using" units was a mix of forces that all use Black & Red, saved on washing brushes.
13th Wolf Guard,  2nd Tikonov Republican Guard,  Kell Hounds,  Wolf Dragoons,  etc etc.
Just pulled out a bunch of partially painted or unpainted minis that I knew I wanted in those units & went at it.

My side projects now for minis that I'm using in a 3025 Light Mech campaign are my pair of Javelins in Light Guards & FSAC colors that I started years ago.
After that I'm also starting a new pair in C* colors from the kickstarter boxed sets, Mongoose + Black Knight.  Probably add a few more C* while I have the paints out.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo