Register Register

Author Topic: State of the Clans...era 3152  (Read 6773 times)

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26925
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #120 on: 22 July 2022, 16:43:27 »
Alaric is Katrina & Victor, Vlad is his philosophical father.  And it was Iron Womb, though his sibko got a soft retcon.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149
Leviathans #104

mikecj

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #121 on: 22 July 2022, 16:45:45 »
Alaric is also a Steiner-Davion via his mother Archon Katrina...

Vlad Ward was his geneparent donor... I wonder was it a natural birth or iron womb?

TT

Masters of War by Stackpole. Page 5:    "Then he learned his father's identity, and learned of his father's death." Page 7: And Alaric knew because he was the man's son, someday she could come to fear him as she had his father. - 22 October 3136.

She- Katherine S-D.


And this thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/alaric-ward-75830/
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #122 on: 22 July 2022, 17:00:56 »
Masters of War by Stackpole. Page 5:    "Then he learned his father's identity, and learned of his father's death." Page 7: And Alaric knew because he was the man's son, someday she could come to fear him as she had his father. - 22 October 3136.

She- Katherine S-D.


And this thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/alaric-ward-75830/
Don't forget the He:

"Then he learned his father’s identity, and learned of his father’s death. The fact that Alaric had survived and thrived within the Clans was cold comfort for learning that he was of pure Inner Sphere stock."

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3796
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #123 on: 22 July 2022, 17:42:16 »
Phelan was a Ward maternally, so that is really moot.  Alaric is not a genetic Ward unless BT wants to get into him being a XXY.

The Clans use extra/allied forces for bids that come on because of some form of reimbursement- which is also moot b/c the Dragoons were not paid in anything except death & isorla.

Which is another problem for Alaric. Honor is supposed to be big with the Clans and he showed he didn't have any with how he treated the Dragoons.


Alaric is Katrina & Victor, Vlad is his philosophical father.  And it was Iron Womb, though his sibko got a soft retcon.


And what will happen when people find out that he isn't even eligible for the Ward Bloodname?

mikecj

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #124 on: 22 July 2022, 17:45:35 »
Maybe he just declares a new Bloodname: Steiner-Davion.  After all, Ulric did it for Phelan- the "Kell" Bloodname.  Its a known power of the ilKhan. 
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8596
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #125 on: 22 July 2022, 18:23:16 »
I'd rather see a Stone blood chapel than a Steiner-Davion one...

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

BrianDavion

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1051
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #126 on: 22 July 2022, 20:05:06 »
I'd rather see a Stone blood chapel than a Steiner-Davion one...

TT

don't give the writers ideas :)

Stormlion1

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 14993
  • The 1st Federated Suns Lancers will arise again!
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #127 on: 22 July 2022, 20:35:40 »
I think the writers will just say there is enough Ward from Vlad donated to Alaric to skirt the genetic testing. And in the end, there is the matter if records and timeframe.
I don't set an example for others. I make examples of them.

Doc Swift

  • Freelance Writer
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 563
  • Available now on Amazon!
    • My Amazon Author page
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #128 on: 22 July 2022, 20:51:40 »
I'd rather see a Stone blood chapel than a Steiner-Davion one...

TT

That looks like two Bloodhouses to me.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #129 on: 22 July 2022, 21:47:38 »
I think the writers will just say there is enough Ward from Vlad donated to Alaric to skirt the genetic testing. And in the end, there is the matter if records and timeframe.
Again, with emphasis:

"Then he learned his father’s identity, and learned of his father’s death. The fact that Alaric had survived and thrived within the Clans was cold comfort for learning that he was of pure Inner Sphere stock."

Generic Clanner 24601

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #130 on: 23 July 2022, 03:32:28 »
Phelan was a Ward maternally, so that is really moot.  Alaric is not a genetic Ward unless BT wants to get into him being a XXY.

The Clans use extra/allied forces for bids that come on because of some form of reimbursement- which is also moot b/c the Dragoons were not paid in anything except death & isorla.

Actually, Alaric did pay them while acknowledging them as mercenaries. 30 pieces of silver ain't much, but it's still payment to for "services rendered."

Alaric is actually in very weak spot and doesn't even realize it. His win is tainted by both Stone sending his strongest units against the Falcons and paying the Dragoons. Stone's assistant got away to tell the story. And while both Alaric and the Dragoons saw it merely as the insult it was supposed to be, other Clanners looking for a reason to not acknowledge the win can easily interpret as payment to a mercenary group for services rendered since that's what it technically was.

Then, there's the little problem of his DNA. Honestly, if he hadn't been brought up as a Ward, it wouldn't matter. He could have earned the Steiner-Davion Bloodname and gone on to do everything he did. But Clans consider the genetic legacies sacred. Lying and falsifying records is a big no-no. It's the sort of thing that would call for a legitimate reaving.

If he is a combo of Vlad/Kat/Vic, that's worse. Then he'd be some sort of abomination reminiscent of the Society experiments.

I mean, it won't be a problem for him unless the other Clans get access to his DNA soon. If that happens....

I think the Wolves will stay the ilClan. But Alaric will probably have to give up a lot of power keep it that way with the IlKhan being less dictator and more first among equals with the other Clan Khans.

Oh. And it's going to hurt losing his Empire. Depending how much he loses, he may genuinely not be able to easily replace his warriors as a large chunk of sibkos are being taken when the planets fall (not sure what the FWL & Lyrans are doing with them, but I doubt they will just give them back to Clan Wolf.

nova_dew

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 709
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #131 on: 23 July 2022, 08:20:05 »
"they" who though? Alaric is ilKhan of the ilClan, he is the one that would be making the rules from here on out

He's IlKhan and Khan, the positions are both separate... well traditionally, with Nicky K, being ilKhan and Jerome Winson being Khan of Clan Wolf.

I'm not sure Alaric has as much power as he dreams he does, there are traditionally limits of the ilKhans powers, eg. any clans internal matters, such as what forces to lend the ilKhan (opens so hilarious options for malicious compliance, "the ilKhan demands aid!", "Send them Bob the 90 year old Solhama conventional infantry man, and a letter of apology that the rest of our touman is currently busy with internal matters *cough* organising a huge beach party... *cough* for the glory of the ilKhan, yeah sure that'll do"), the ilKhan has traditionally been disallowed from interfering with another clans internal matters, but then again Alaric being the bright one his is, proclaimed himself above clan law, something even Nicky didn't do, really surprised the Horses didn't turn around and declare "If you won't obey clan law, then you can not claim it's protection" before storming off as a way to allow more frictions both within the clans on terra and off.

The ilKhan also isn't meant to favour their own clan... at least openly,
A member of Clan Ghost Bears Legal Team

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #132 on: 23 July 2022, 08:23:30 »
Nevermind what I previously wrote...

I agree, Alaric has a lot to overcome, and I don't think he'll be able to since changing from a conqueror to a peacetime leader is not something the Clans were built for.
« Last Edit: 23 July 2022, 08:26:39 by Dr. Banzai »

GuyIncognito

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 378
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #133 on: 23 July 2022, 13:00:31 »
I mean, it won't be a problem for him unless the other Clans get access to his DNA soon. If that happens....
Don't worry, the Goons are way ahead of you.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #134 on: 23 July 2022, 13:54:00 »
Don't worry, the Goons are way ahead of you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The best part is, the `Goons don't even know it! This is great!

Metallgewitter

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 789
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #135 on: 23 July 2022, 13:58:44 »
Also the thing is if Alaric can keep the support he got so far. the Foxes strike me as opportunistic and from what I understood from the small story in empire alone is that at least the saKhan is actually going through strategies what they should do should clan wolf fail Also apparently the Foxes sold Mechs made on Terra to rebels on Solaris VIi and are even suspected to sell weapons made on Terra by the Wolves to the remaining Empire troops at a premium though

Funniest thing would be when Alaric emerges from Terra and notices that his Empire is all gone

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26925
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #136 on: 23 July 2022, 14:12:41 »
So . . . the Foxes have 4 or 5 saKhans btw, each Khanate is headed up by one.  I forget the exact count.

The sales on Terra were not to rebels, it was a bazaar . . . which also indicates the Wolves might be still letting merc traffic reach Solaris VII.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149
Leviathans #104

Generic Clanner 24601

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #137 on: 23 July 2022, 14:28:46 »
Don't worry, the Goons are way ahead of you.

Oh. I am well aware of that. It's going to be glorious.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The best part is, the `Goons don't even know it! This is great!

I just hope it is in a story and not a sourcebook. I want to see Hack's reaction.
« Last Edit: 23 July 2022, 16:25:05 by Generic Clanner 24601 »

mikecj

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #138 on: 23 July 2022, 17:31:03 »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The best part is, the `Goons don't even know it! This is great!

Considering they have Victor's DNA from his training on Outreach during the Clan's lull, testing Alaric's will be interesting.
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26925
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #139 on: 23 July 2022, 17:43:32 »
Had . . . who knows if it ever made it off Outreach or survived the Jihad.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149
Leviathans #104

CJC070

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 848
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #140 on: 23 July 2022, 19:01:12 »
Nevermind what I previously wrote...

I agree, Alaric has a lot to overcome, and I don't think he'll be able to since changing from a conqueror to a peacetime leader is not something the Clans were built for.

Not to mention his strategy has gone from offensive to defensive.  Although Alaric is able to launch raids and invasions he is still surrounded and most of his forces must stay lest someone takes the White Elephant of the Inner Sphere.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #141 on: 23 July 2022, 19:41:14 »
Had . . . who knows if it ever made it off Outreach or survived the Jihad.
I'm sure they got all the data off the planet, even if they didn't get the actual DNA. Otherwise, a lot more records would have been lost and they wouldn't have some of the historical resources they do.

mikecj

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2927
  • Veteran of Galahad 3028
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #142 on: 23 July 2022, 19:48:35 »
Had . . . who knows if it ever made it off Outreach or survived the Jihad.

Yup, we'll see how the writers run with it.  It may be a complete non-issue.  Or we get a clone of Victor (aka a retread like Maeve) as the new leader of the Resistance!  No Alaric, I am your father! but I expect the issue will be resolved as best suits the overarching meta-plot.
There are no fish in my pond.
"First, one brief announcement. I just want to mention, for those who have asked, that absolutely nothing what so ever happened today in sector 83x9x12. I repeat, nothing happened. Please remain calm." Susan Ivanova
"Solve a man's problems with violence, help him for a day. Teach a man to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime." - Belkar Bitterleaf
Romo Lampkin could have gotten Stefan Amaris off with a warning.

BrianDavion

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1051
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #143 on: 24 July 2022, 03:48:04 »
TBH even if the other clans realized Alaric wasn't a Ward...

would anyone ADMIT IT? Would the clans want to admit that the Ilkahn, the man who lead a clan to conquer Terra, was not in fact a descendant of one of the 800? but was in fact the scion of one of the great houses? the same great houses that destroyed the star league?

if that got out it would DESTROY the clans

Generic Clanner 24601

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #144 on: 24 July 2022, 04:22:21 »
TBH even if the other clans realized Alaric wasn't a Ward...

would anyone ADMIT IT? Would the clans want to admit that the Ilkahn, the man who lead a clan to conquer Terra, was not in fact a descendant of one of the 800? but was in fact the scion of one of the great houses? the same great houses that destroyed the star league?

if that got out it would DESTROY the clans

1. The issue wouldn't necessarily be that he wasn't from an original BloodHouse. They have allowed other Bloodnames to be created from Inner Sphere DNA. It is the cover-up that is scandalous. His culture is still Clan. He was still a Trueborn. His leading them wouldn't be seen as invalidating Clan life since the basics were still true. Just his legitimacy to be a part of it. Or even just shrug their shoulders. While a scandal, he is a Trueborn raised in Clan culture. I believe he was created before IS were allowed to created their own Bloodnames (not counting the Exiles), so they might chalk it up to that. I just see Clans treating it more as an issue with Alaric instead of Clan culture (it's not like all the Wolf warriors weren't proper descendants).

2. Stone let him win. With that, certain factions (Hell's Horses for example) that want to get rid of him could use that as an excuse. It doesn't invalidate Clan victory because he didn't really conquer it. Stone handed it to him while throwing his strongest forces at the Jade Falcon.

3. Terra has been conquered multiple times by the Clans. Even if they decide Alaric doesn't count as Clan, then... so what? Many non-Clans have conquered Terra. Worst case, the others just decide who can take Terra from the Wolves become the ilClan instead.

Don't get me wrong. I definitely see his supporters trying to cover it up. But I don't see the Hell's Horses hiding it when they could use it to make a challenge for his claim to the ilKhanship. Nor do I see Sea Foxes and Snow Ravens ignoring it when they could use it to their advantage.

And it doesn't matter since Hack is keeping some and will eventually figure it out (I'm sure they'll run DNA tests at some point and learn that one parent is an incest baby). Maybe not before the Clans since the Dragoons care less about DNA, but they will eventually figure it out. The Clans will do what almost any society does when confronted with information that challenges their beliefs, factor it in and adjust their beliefs accordingly and/or engage in blatant hypocrisy of ignoring how this information affects their beliefs.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #145 on: 24 July 2022, 08:20:00 »
TBH even if the other clans realized Alaric wasn't a Ward...

would anyone ADMIT IT? Would the clans want to admit that the Ilkahn, the man who lead a clan to conquer Terra, was not in fact a descendant of one of the 800? but was in fact the scion of one of the great houses? the same great houses that destroyed the star league?

if that got out it would DESTROY the clans

Destroy the Villians? Why that would be horrendous!
[/sarcasm]

Metallgewitter

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 789
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #146 on: 24 July 2022, 12:21:36 »
Well to be fair the Bears created the blood name Magnusson way before Alaric was born. So we have a precedent there. The Exiled Wolves were given the Kell bloodname by the Ilkhan even earlier though IO am not sure if the Clans would count that. So he might need a Steiner-Davion bloodname (just to make Daoshen frothe from his mouth)

Even if the Dragoons let this bombshell drop how fast could this news actually propagate? We are currently living in a "No HPG-Net IS" even if the Foxes somehow manage to get the HPG's running again (IF they can get the whole Net running again) the spread will slow (not to mention the Foxes might even block the spread in a move similar to an interdiction Comstar made in the past) Also wouldn't Terra hold some DNA samples from Victor in their extensive medical libraries? If someone compares Alaric's DNA with that Terra might get the news even earlier. 

GuyIncognito

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 378
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #147 on: 24 July 2022, 12:27:21 »
I don't necessarily expect it to amount to much, but I still find it interesting that one of the notable pilots of the Thresher II in RecGuide #4 is a Ward of Clan Wolf that already doesn't believe Alaric has claim to the Bloodname and Alaric's continued success appears to be the only thing preventing challenges about it.

Dr. Banzai

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 312
  • No matter where you go, there you are.
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #148 on: 24 July 2022, 14:52:03 »
I don't necessarily expect it to amount to much, but I still find it interesting that one of the notable pilots of the Thresher II in RecGuide #4 is a Ward of Clan Wolf that already doesn't believe Alaric has claim to the Bloodname and Alaric's continued success appears to be the only thing preventing challenges about it.
"Trueborn warriors are the true legacy of Kerensky (unless a freeborn/IS warrior is better than us, then we will bend over backwards to attach him to a Trueborn house)!"

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 26925
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: State of the Clans...era 3152
« Reply #149 on: 24 July 2022, 17:25:32 »
Liam Ward, who was the Loremaster as of Bonfire knew the truth I think.  Unfortunately we have not heard of the Wolf Loremaster since then . . . really, we have not heard of ANY of the remaining Clan Loremasters which had been a important position during the Invasion & after.
Colt Ward

Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Clan Invasion Backer #149
Leviathans #104