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Author Topic: How much support does a Cluster have ?  (Read 593 times)

JAMES_PRYDE

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How much support does a Cluster have ?
« on: 09 August 2022, 10:58:24 »
Thinking of starting a Falcon Cluster with the new minatures, besides the types of mechs in the Stars, that make up the Trinaries / Binary, how much is there in the way of support personnel attached?

IE: Like infantry, logistics, tanks, all the way to the dropships ? You know all the behind the scene stuff
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Lyran Wolf

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #1 on: 09 August 2022, 11:30:02 »
I think that will vary heavily based on Era and location.

Pre-invasion homeworld it was likely practically nothing.  Enough to get from point A to the trial location, make sure the Warriors were supplied, and then pick up the pieces at a leisurely pace.

Depending on the Clan, Invasion forces may have had more.  Some had adapted better than others, some picked up the realities of warfare in the IS quicker than others.

In both those timeframes Tanks and Infantry would likely be non-existent in anything except maybe a PGC.


Moving forward into the Dark Ages you will see more trinaries or binaries being filled with Tanks or rarely infantry.  But I do not see the clans having attachments of either for “security” purposes or the like.  You are either a Warrior and part of the cluster TO&E or you are a lower caste.

Knowing the Era you are thinking might help provide better answers,  but I would go with fewer than you would for a IS unit as a general go by.


For my own DA/IlClan era forces I’ve usually assumed VTOL transport or two. A MIT 23 Mash vehicle if well equipped. An engineering or Salvage vehicle or two, And enough Techs to arm and repair things.
For transport I am fond of Overlord and a Miraborg for the Aerospace Binary/Trinary.  With one or two more for logistics tail and any units that can’t fit in the Overlord. 
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #2 on: 09 August 2022, 11:58:50 »
Real question is Combat Support vs Support . . .

Does a Cluster have engineers?  No
Do they have techs for repairs and laborers to load ammo?  Yes

The clusters that had non-Nova Elementals had SOME method of transport to get them deployed to the battlefield per sources, BUT these were NOT part of the cluster's combat forces and so not included in the bid.  So even if they were riding in Svantovits, they would not be officially combatants nor typically in the bidding.

Lyran is a bit off on the tanks/infantry.  The Invading Clans used the best of their frontline forces until ilKhan Showers let the Clans use PGCs to hold territory, an attempt to give the rest a chance to catch up with the Wolves.  This was also the period when the material about the Clans was in flux.  Looking to the later Ghost Bear entries in FMWC you get secondline clusters that have vehicles- a few are primarily composed of vehicles even.  Yet they are not garrison/PGC quality level.  The Blood Spirits always included vehicle forces in their clusters because they never altered from 'Kerensky's vision' of having 3 mech trinaries, 1 vehicle trinary, and a infantry trinary- though they made that a BA trinary when that tech rolled out.

Flip side is the Falcons did not use vehicles, except the Huey, until after the Jihad.  So even their PGCs did not use vehicles in a combat roll if they could avoid it.

As for your question . . . while Inner Sphere forces sometimes do not have full tech support, we really do not hear about that among the Clans.  So unless you are some dezgra formation, I would expect a full complement of techs.  They will also have merchants and laborers filling the role of quartermasters.  Transportation in the form of dropships and even jumpships depend on the status of the cluster.  A frontline galaxy is going to have enough dropships and jumpships to transport everything.  Garrison galaxies are not really going to have jumpships assigned to them, they will be transported by regular merchant JS or have a small pool of JS & DS as a galaxy-level asset that can be assigned out to clusters.  A garrison cluster MIGHT have a smaller dropship or two assigned to let them re-deploy as needed if they are covering a large part of a world (or in the OZs, the whole world) to shift a star or two about.
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #3 on: 09 August 2022, 23:08:13 »
I am interested in making Jiyi's 1st Falcon Sentinels and possibly Stephanie's Turkina Keshik

Do all the new range of miniatures have all the latest Dark Age / ilClan mechs, quiaff?

Also support stuff, infantry and Elementals, tanks, etc ?
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #4 on: 09 August 2022, 23:37:50 »
No, but a lot of the 3145/50 and Primitive mechs were designed using the same processes.  IWM has started producing some of the new RecGuide mechs like the Heirofalcon and I think the Ion Raptor, but the Rec Guide series finished up at the beginning of the year . . . I think they have no more than a handful of RecGuide designs.
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #5 on: 10 August 2022, 01:07:20 »
So FM 3145 and Rec Guide would be good to consult ?

As far as what support elements are attached to the said Cluster ?
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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #6 on: 10 August 2022, 08:59:20 »
BT really does not get into what support anything has- the most details tend to be for mercs, but even that is changing.  Part of it is the move away from AccountanTech which is unfortunately if you want to run with those sort of details.  For the Falcons . . . well, FM3145 is out of date for their touman.  Right now all you know is the Falcon remnant which is in Tamar Rising- it is the only place to get details on what exists of their touman.

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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #7 on: 12 August 2022, 06:29:23 »
BT really does not get into what support anything has- the most details tend to be for mercs, but even that is changing.  Part of it is the move away from AccountanTech which is unfortunately if you want to run with those sort of details.  For the Falcons . . . well, FM3145 is out of date for their touman.  Right now all you know is the Falcon remnant which is in Tamar Rising- it is the only place to get details on what exists of their touman.

I think I want to play "Accountantech", COULD I look mercs for details, and then give it a Clan "make over"
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #8 on: 12 August 2022, 09:47:19 »
The only reason I mentioned mercs is FM Mercs (Rev) has lines on all the entries saying how much tech support they had to meet their needs and if they had DS or JS transport for how much of their forces.  They SORT of had to do this so if you were playing that unit you would have to deal with that part in negotiations.

We have never, IIRC, had a cluster not meet it's tech support requirements.  They might not get the parts through their supply network they want, but they have the techs to perform regular maintenance.  Dropship/Jumpship support is a different matter, if the cluster was involved in the Invasion you can get an idea of what transport they may have assigned.
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #9 on: 12 August 2022, 10:16:00 »
Oh, I think I have phrased this wrong

When I say "support" I mean, for example, say a Star (Garrison) has 5 mechs, I mean like the Elemental, Infantry, Aerospace and tech assets attached to it
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Hellraiser

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #10 on: 12 August 2022, 10:37:00 »
Oh, I think I have phrased this wrong

When I say "support" I mean, for example, say a Star (Garrison) has 5 mechs, I mean like the Elemental, Infantry, Aerospace and tech assets attached to it


None.  Other than the techs.

"Standard" clan clusters in 3050 is 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 Elemental Trinary, & 1 Fighter Trinary.

The assets are not directly attached to specific mech stars.

Per the fluff, each "Galaxy" does have a small amount of Grunt Infantry & Vees to call on for support functions but that is at the Galaxy level.

If you really wanted to be able to call on a small amount of support for a single Star in a tabletop battle, it would probably be a point or 2 of Fighters/Infantry based on the 3/1/1 rule.
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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #11 on: 12 August 2022, 10:39:36 »
Do all the new range of miniatures have all the latest Dark Age / ilClan mechs, quiaff?
The Kickstarter minis have no Dark Age/ilClan stuff other than 1 in the upcoming GDL Box.

The newer TRO minis are available in singles from Iron Wind Metals.
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Colt Ward

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #12 on: 12 August 2022, 10:43:34 »
Those foot infantry and utility vehicles are more likely to be the paramilitary police and thus not bid into any sort of fighting unless a creative commander is desperate.

Now for a bid, a Star Colonel could bid two mech stars from Trinary First, three points from Beta Elemental Star from the Trinary Elemental, and three fighter points from Trinary Aerospace for top coverage . . . all in a effort to beat a fellow Falcon Star Colonel in the bidding for a target.

The Kickstarter minis have no Dark Age/ilClan stuff other than 1 in the upcoming GDL Box.

The newer TRO minis are available in singles from Iron Wind Metals.

Not quite accurate . . . the Black Python mini of the Merc KS is also a White Raven, which was in the RecGuide.  We have also gotten the Hammerhead as a premium (needs restock) and we are getting the Eris at some point this month- both are new RecGuide designs.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #13 on: 12 August 2022, 10:58:51 »
When I say "support" I mean, for example, say a Star (Garrison) has 5 mechs, I mean like the Elemental, Infantry, Aerospace and tech assets attached to it

Unless the star is part of a nova with another integral star of battle armor attached, the mechs will not have any other combat elements _permanently_ attached to them.

Of course, for the purpose of the garrison mission, the star may have other combat elements _temporarily_ attached to it.  But the type and amount really depends on the specifics of the mission.  Is it garrison duty on a planet with a lot of unruly locals?  Then the star might have a lot of infantry attached for potential riot control.  Garrison duty on a Deep Periphery rock expecting bandit attacks?  Then substantive aerospace support make sense.  Etc.

Someone closer to the logistics side of the game can provide a better answer on the number of techs assigned per mech.  I think it’s usually one per, but I could be wrong.

Lastly, mixed stars exist in small numbers, usually at the highest (keshiks) and lowest (provisional garrisons) levels of the Clan touman.  You could have a star consisting of a couple mechs, two points of battle armor, and a point of aerospace fighters, if you really wanted.  It would be unusual, but not unprecedented.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #14 on: 12 August 2022, 11:13:25 »
The number of techs assigned to a mech is typically 7 although you can make do with less. However, I wouldn't drop below 4 or 5 as the penalties (if you use such things) start becoming high at that level. The one tech per mech thing is dated to the 2nd edition, particularly the Mercs book.

I agree however that mixed stars are improbable except at lower levels or in the case of the Wolf Command Lance of 4 Mechs, 2 Fighters, Keshiks. It makes sense to keep similar units together unless they are trained as a Nova. Ad Hoc units would however be common as you may need some other capacity (the case for most PGCs) to support the main force, this could be anything from being short Mechs for a while and replacing them with tanks, to needing fire support, anti-infantry protection, search and kill, or enhanced Airpower under the Star Captain's control instead of the Colonel.

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #15 on: 12 August 2022, 11:15:14 »
The number of techs assigned to a mech is typically 7 although you can make do with less. However, I wouldn't drop below 4 or 5 as the penalties (if you use such things) start becoming high at that level. The one tech per mech thing is dated to the 2nd edition, particularly the Mercs book.

Which all depends on what support rules you wish to use.
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How much support does a Cluster have ?
« Reply #16 on: 13 August 2022, 00:54:39 »
Thanks for your responses. I think I would like to build a PGC for Sudeten, or even a Trinary as a back up for the 1st Falcon Sentinels
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