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Author Topic: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?  (Read 729 times)

BATTLEMASTER

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How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« on: 24 July 2022, 07:13:37 »
We know they're durable and they enhance the strength of their wearer, but how strong are they really?  Can they pick up and toss another Elemental suit across the room, even with the one battle claw?  I'm not familiar with any suit-related feats.

After doing some research I'm just coming to grips that these suits are about ten feet tall  :o
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #1 on: 24 July 2022, 07:24:29 »
Another suit, probably not with one hand. A person, yeah they can manage that. The myomer claws are strong enough to damage mech armor so they are beefy

Alan Grant

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #2 on: 24 July 2022, 08:27:53 »
I don't think they are strong enough to toss another Elemental suit. Pick up one? That's tough with just one hand.

Their claw is tough, it can pull armor, but I always imagined that's more like dexterity strength of the claw itself as opposed to lifting body strength.

An unarmored person? Yes. We've seen scenes where Elementals are described pulling mechwarriors out of cockpits alive to rescue or capture them, strongly implying they can manage the lift/carry on that.

But I think lifting and tossing another Elemental suit may be too much. I've never seen anything that implies they can manage to lift/carry their own body weight.
« Last Edit: 24 July 2022, 08:33:59 by Alan Grant »


BATTLEMASTER

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #4 on: 24 July 2022, 09:34:05 »
To clarify, when I meant with one battle claw I envisioned the possibility of grabbing another Elemental with just the one claw and using both arms to lift and toss, despite the other arm traditionally ending with some kind of weapon barrel instead of another claw.
BATTLEMASTER
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idea weenie

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #5 on: 24 July 2022, 14:05:01 »
Mechs can pick up and carry 10% of their weight, so why can't a 1000 kg Elemental armor carry a 100 kg person?

Crimson Dynamo

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #6 on: 24 July 2022, 19:29:29 »
Though not Elementals, I recall a scene in the FCCW novel that dealt with the fighting on New Syrtis where a couple suits of Loyalist Infiltrator Mk IIs are described as casually overturning a military truck to serve as some hard cover.
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #7 on: 25 July 2022, 01:36:16 »
I imagine it is something akin to Halo Power Armor Mjolner ?

I have often thought that as an upgrade, at least to the standard Elemental suit, was wear on both arms they had more advanced claws, that were close to mimicking proper hand movements, that they can swing their weapons in a "side" or "up" position, so they can use both claws when needed, like on the right hand, have the claw below the laser to use it like a gun, rather than a stump, same with machine gun.

Any premise for this ? Or am I just day dreaming ;D
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AlphaMirage

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #8 on: 25 July 2022, 06:01:45 »
I don't believe there is any manipulator under the laser just a universal mount for their weapon.

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #9 on: 25 July 2022, 07:11:40 »
If Elemental battle armor goes together as has been artistically portrayed in the past, it shouldn't be too hard to swap the weapon arm with another claw if desired.

So I gather that an Elemental battle suit can't pick up and toss another one even if it could get a solid grip on it.

I get flipping a truck over as previously mentioned, but it would depend on the weight of the truck.  Are we talking 6000 lb HMMWV or a 14000 lb deuce and a half?
« Last Edit: 25 July 2022, 07:13:14 by BATTLEMASTER »
BATTLEMASTER
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JAMES_PRYDE

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #10 on: 25 July 2022, 08:57:10 »
I don't believe there is any manipulator under the laser just a universal mount for their weapon.

I meant like could there be one, as it would make more practical sense
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Metallgewitter

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #11 on: 25 July 2022, 13:15:01 »
We know they're durable and they enhance the strength of their wearer, but how strong are they really?  Can they pick up and toss another Elemental suit across the room, even with the one battle claw?  I'm not familiar with any suit-related feats.

After doing some research I'm just coming to grips that these suits are about ten feet tall  :o

About the height of those suits: aren't elemntals usually nearly 7 ft tall? Just a small private info, i am 7 ft tall and a suit that has to house a human this tall plus weapons, power source and armor should be at least this tall.

I guess picking up another elemental might be out of the question. Not sure about PA like the original nighthawk suit though those are (relatively) light. In a Shrapnel story there is a Wolf elemntal who told the story how he ripped of the arm of a Jade Falcon Elemntal and beat said Elemntal to death with it. Also wasn't their a moment in Path of Glory where a DEST soldier judo throws Jake Kabrinski while both were suited? Or am I remembering it wrong?

Nebfer

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #12 on: 25 July 2022, 14:46:12 »
We know they're durable and they enhance the strength of their wearer, but how strong are they really?  Can they pick up and toss another Elemental suit across the room, even with the one battle claw?  I'm not familiar with any suit-related feats.

After doing some research I'm just coming to grips that these suits are about ten feet tall  :o

Well I do not know much of what the Fluff and novels indicate, though theirs not a whole lot written on Battle armor operators.
Though I do believe the average elemental is about 2.5 meters tall or about 8 feet.
Though their is the case of Isaac Kabrinski (of clan Ghost Bear) who is IIRC one of the tallest and strongest known elementals who at some 500kg out side of armor and nearly 3 meters tall is said to be able to defeat other elementals in armor when he is not.

Though I do recall one reference in Lost Destiny where Kai is trying out the captured elemental suit for his escape and he mentions that he could lift 500kg in the suit. Though it should be noted that Kai is not strictly the intended user of a elemental suit (nor had much training with one) so it's likely that the suit is not going to be as effective with him using it as a elemental would be (or a equivalent IS operator would be).

On the other hand
Per the RPG an Medium Class suit has a +4 STR modifier, which if we base it off a typical person having a STR score of 4 which corresponds to a overloaded capacity of 75kg (reduced to a crawl). A score of 8 is 200kg, or a 2.66 enhancement rate. Though considering that Elementals are typically stronger than the Avg human (STR 4 IIRC) so a STR of 7 (150kg -incidentally STR 7 is the score given for the sample elemental in AToW) being augmented to STR 11 (495kg) would likely be closer to what we see (which in this case is a 3.3 modifier).


BATTLEMASTER

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #13 on: 25 July 2022, 16:26:35 »
Per the RPG an Medium Class suit has a +4 STR modifier, which if we base it off a typical person having a STR score of 4 which corresponds to a overloaded capacity of 75kg (reduced to a crawl). A score of 8 is 200kg, or a 2.66 enhancement rate. Though considering that Elementals are typically stronger than the Avg human (STR 4 IIRC) so a STR of 7 (150kg -incidentally STR 7 is the score given for the sample elemental in AToW) being augmented to STR 11 (495kg) would likely be closer to what we see (which in this case is a 3.3 modifier).

Thanks for that info!  I'm not very familiar with the RPG or its rules, but I wondered if there was a basis in that about battle armor strength.  So it sounds like a suit could lift at least half its weight.  I always thought they'd be able to pick up and toss someone in a PA/L suit anyway, and it seems up to...  Light class armor?  I think 500 kg is the max weight of light armor.
BATTLEMASTER
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Nebfer

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Re: How physically strong are Elemental battle suits?
« Reply #14 on: 26 July 2022, 01:38:46 »
Thanks for that info!  I'm not very familiar with the RPG or its rules, but I wondered if there was a basis in that about battle armor strength.  So it sounds like a suit could lift at least half its weight.  I always thought they'd be able to pick up and toss someone in a PA/L suit anyway, and it seems up to...  Light class armor?  I think 500 kg is the max weight of light armor.
PALs max out at 400kg
Light BA are 750kg
Medium 1,000kg
Heavys 1,500kg
Assaults 2,000kg
Though one thing should be noted that Elementals are well known in universe for Ripping apart mechs even if it's a bit exaggerated.
So the suits should be fairly strong in terms of augmenting the users capabilities, So being able to lift 500ish kilograms should be reasonable for...

I just remembered something.
Cargo Rules 
In Strategic operations their are rules for loading cargo, and battle armor are included under Exoskeletons, an Elemental suit (well any battle armor for that matter) can move up to five tons of cargo per minute (via container), six tons if they have cargo manipulators (which most BA do not have).
It's a base line of one ton for the unit type (Exoskeleton/Battle Armor -and assumed to be brake bulk cargo (I.e. pallets)) and a 5x modifier if using a container
Regular old humans are 1/5th these rates

This is a bit more subjective and depends on ones view point, are they pushing it on a dolly or carrying it... Though in some cases like for battlemechs being used (1/30th their mass per minute or 1/50th if they only have one hand) I doubt their pushing a battlemech sized pallet jack around...

 

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