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Author Topic: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III  (Read 61068 times)

Drewbacca

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #480 on: 05 April 2022, 16:14:27 »
Hey everyone, been away for a while. From what I am reading here skimming the thread things are looking bad for our favorite four-legged friends. I don't have Tamar Rising yet and I came out of the ilClan novel a bit concerned for the Horses. Can someone give me a too long, didn't read update on what is going on with the Horses?

truetanker

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #481 on: 05 April 2022, 19:23:02 »
Besides becoming TPTB's official whipping clan?

Nothing.

We became part of a Council with little say, Bears are still the rival, Wolves and Falcons are snapping at everything around them while the Ravens are having a hay day with their new neighbors, the Scorpion Empire, which by the by, are so out there it's pathetic. They've contained their Empire so far, but it's just a waiting game really. Do they fail or survive enough to stay a Clan?

But for us, we've been busy expanding our little realm nicely. Everyone is watching everyone, but so far no new threats, just old ones that won't die.

TT

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CJC070

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #482 on: 05 April 2022, 20:26:40 »
Besides becoming TPTB's official whipping clan?

Nothing.

We became part of a Council with little say, Bears are still the rival, Wolves and Falcons are snapping at everything around them while the Ravens are having a hay day with their new neighbors, the Scorpion Empire, which by the by, are so out there it's pathetic. They've contained their Empire so far, but it's just a waiting game really. Do they fail or survive enough to stay a Clan?

But for us, we've been busy expanding our little realm nicely. Everyone is watching everyone, but so far no new threats, just old ones that won't die.

TT

cough *Red Duke*. But I would read the Tamar Rising because it shows that the Hell
Horses are at a crossroads with challenges on every front.  Especially cleaning up the messes created by the Falcons and Pirates.

Drewbacca

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #483 on: 06 April 2022, 03:13:48 »
I just picked up Tamar Rising. Can't wait to read it.

Drewbacca

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #484 on: 06 April 2022, 04:44:00 »
I do have to say, my Scorpion side is happy with the way that is the developing. If the Horses can get a relatively stable area I would be happy.

Kojak

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #485 on: 06 April 2022, 18:05:04 »
Personally, I think things are actually looking up for the Horses. Sure, they lost at Sudeten, but they picked up Erewhon, they have a nice buffet of a buffer between them and the Lyrans/ilWolves, and they lost their dumbass Khan and replaced him with one who seems to suck less (I mean, he's no James Cobb but who could be?).


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Jellico

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #486 on: 06 April 2022, 19:19:04 »
What the Horses took in the Wolf OZ is where the growth potential is right now as production is coming back online.

There was an effort after the Jihad to make sure all the IS Clans were reasonably self sufficient. The Horses now have the "sufficiency" of two and a half Clans. If they aren't pruned in the short term they will pose the same problem as the Dominion. A tertiary faction that can quickly grow to an unmanageable size when nobody is paying attention.

The Horses have real potential at the moment. We are yet to see how it will be used.

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #487 on: 07 April 2022, 00:11:07 »
I do hope we get to see them really flourish and not just get utterly smacked down by the ilWolves or Bears. I know I'm super biased, but the Horses are a great Clan, dammit! They bring a flavor to the Clans that I think is valuable in both the in-universe and game-meta sense, and it would be a shame to see them essentially shunted offscreen for the remainder of the 3150s.


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Church14

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #488 on: 28 June 2022, 11:17:15 »
I do hope we get to see them really flourish and not just get utterly smacked down by the ilWolves or Bears. I know I'm super biased, but the Horses are a great Clan, dammit! They bring a flavor to the Clans that I think is valuable in both the in-universe and game-meta sense, and it would be a shame to see them essentially shunted offscreen for the remainder of the 3150s.

For Watsonian reasons, I’m confident Horses don’t get wiped by the usurperer and his Wolves. It’s been mentioned that the new states created are supposed to stick around a while and I don’t see how Wolves project force at the Horses without going through Tamar Pact and basically destroying it. I’m not sold that the Bears are interested in listening to Alaric unless Alaric asks them to do what they already wanted, so I don’t think Bears are wanting a full on war.

But horses just increased their territory by 50%, picked up a few key worlds like Erehwon, and while they do face threats from most directions the AML and Vesper are in no real position to attack the Horses. It’s basically Fallen Falcons, Bears, and whatever is up in Oberon.

My only worry is that the new Khan does something extremely stupid. Some pointless aggression that causes a backlash
« Last Edit: 28 June 2022, 11:19:48 by Church14 »

Angrii

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #489 on: 28 June 2022, 12:02:42 »
My only worry is that the new Khan does something extremely stupid. Some pointless aggression that causes a backlash

Given his antics in Tamar Rising, that seems all too possible.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #490 on: 28 June 2022, 13:40:08 »
If the Horses simply decide to keep what they have it should be fine. I doubt the Falcon worlds can do much. Both have one big factory world but that is it. Of course if they merge that would be another story. And I think the Bears will most likely be more concerned with the Combine then with the rather neutral Horses (except perhaps for minor trials)

Then again maybe someone decides to invade Terra and Alaric conveniently forgets to deactivate the Wall.

GuyIncognito

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #491 on: 28 June 2022, 13:54:52 »
I wanna see people's Doom Courser Stars and Novas.

Church14

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #492 on: 03 July 2022, 12:20:09 »
I for one also root for seeing new mechs from the RecGuides in lore. And absolutely a Doom Courser

WONC

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #493 on: 26 September 2022, 01:41:57 »
So, I have a few questions for you Horsefolk, as my knowledge of your Clan is not as deep as I would want it to be.

I know that front line forces mix Omnis and battle armor in trinaries / novas with a liberal glee, but what about second line clusters? I know Omnis will show up a bit in all but the most destitute of garrison units, but are pure binaries and trinaries more the norm (aside from vee / infantry supernovas, of course)?

Also, when books mention "generic clusters," are those units ones that follow standard Clan practices, rather than Horse-specific, er, horse-ery?

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #494 on: 26 September 2022, 23:21:09 »
So, I have a few questions for you Horsefolk, as my knowledge of your Clan is not as deep as I would want it to be.

I know that front line forces mix Omnis and battle armor in trinaries / novas with a liberal glee, but what about second line clusters? I know Omnis will show up a bit in all but the most destitute of garrison units, but are pure binaries and trinaries more the norm (aside from vee / infantry supernovas, of course)?

Also, when books mention "generic clusters," are those units ones that follow standard Clan practices, rather than Horse-specific, er, horse-ery?

Read in Zioberg's voice makes it so much funnier ;D
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Maelwys

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #495 on: 27 September 2022, 00:28:03 »
I know that front line forces mix Omnis and battle armor in trinaries / novas with a liberal glee, but what about second line clusters? I know Omnis will show up a bit in all but the most destitute of garrison units, but are pure binaries and trinaries more the norm (aside from vee / infantry supernovas, of course)?

Also, when books mention "generic clusters," are those units ones that follow standard Clan practices, rather than Horse-specific, er, horse-ery?

The average Horse Cluster is here the first three Trinaries are a mix of Mech/BA, then a pure Aerospace, then a Supernova of Conventional Infantry/Vehicles. That's the default for all of the Horses' Clusters (atleast prior to the Jihad).

Then there are 3 variant Clusters that modifies the average Cluster (Strike, Assault, Cavalry) in a variety of ways. So a "generic cluster" is going to just be the average Cluster above, that doesn't fall within one of the variants (so a mixture of units with no real preference/identity).

As to the mix of BA/Mechs in the first three Trinaries, we don't really know, but whatever works is usually the answer.



Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #496 on: 27 September 2022, 09:35:01 »
I know that front line forces mix Omnis and battle armor in trinaries / novas with a liberal glee

Classically, Horse clusters fielded three supernova trinaries of omnimechs and battle armor and one supernova trinary of combat vehicles and unarmored infantry (and one aerospace fighter trinary).

Quote
but what about second line clusters? I know Omnis will show up a bit in all but the most destitute of garrison units, but are pure binaries and trinaries more the norm (aside from vee / infantry supernovas, of course)?

I don’t think there’s a canon source that says for certain.  Logically, fewer omnimechs and battle armor suits would mean fewer of those supernova trinaries, but it’s not clear what replaces them in secondline clusters.  All we really get is the description of the Generic and Ranger secondline clusters, which just says that Generic clusters are grab-bags of units and Ranger clusters favor mobile, long-range harassers.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Hell%27s_Horses_Touman#Unit_Structure

Quote
Also, when books mention "generic clusters," are those units ones that follow standard Clan practices, rather than Horse-specific, er, horse-ery?

AFAIK, description above is about all we get.

Some of this also depends on era.  By the Dark Age, the Horses have developed Horde clusters, which deviate a lot from the classic cluster structure.
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truetanker

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #497 on: 27 September 2022, 22:52:42 »
Generally, a Secondline unit uses older out moded units in it's makeup with few if any Omni.

What I found is that if you wanted to, a Nova leading a Binary making this Trinary effective. Now I've seen some makeups bother using Nova Binaries and an Assualt Star slugging it out. Vehicle makes too...

Only recently I've seen Aero mixed into the fray.

TT
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TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
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WONC

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #498 on: 28 September 2022, 12:28:37 »
So what I'm gathering is, if a second line cluster had a binary supernova of omnis and elementals, a trinary or two of standard 'mechs, a supernova trinary of infantry/vehicles/protomechs/elementals/whatever works, and a binary of aerofighters, it would "feel" like a Horses unit? 'Cause I can work with that quite nicely.

Read in Zioberg's voice makes it so much funnier ;D

What can I say? I do what I can, why not?  :))

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Kojak

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #499 on: 28 September 2022, 17:14:27 »
So what I'm gathering is, if a second line cluster had a binary supernova of omnis and elementals, a trinary or two of standard 'mechs, a supernova trinary of infantry/vehicles/protomechs/elementals/whatever works, and a binary of aerofighters, it would "feel" like a Horses unit? 'Cause I can work with that quite nicely.

Absolutely.


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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #500 on: 28 September 2022, 21:18:43 »

This is a Hellion cluster, so everything is 6/9 or faster and not Horse flavor.  But it mixes novas, mech stars, and proto stars in the three core trinaries.   There’s also an auxiliary trinary of vehicle/infantry novas.  May be a jumping off point for the org for this Horse cluster.

9th Hellion Attack Cluster —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/9th-hellion-attack-cluster/msg1084228/#msg1084228

Depending on the era/year, Horse secondline clusters might also have a lot of quadvees and protomechs.  They can actually pair well together  with the protos screening and critical-seeking for the longer-ranged and hole-punching quadvees.  I played with some mixed stars or 2-3 quadvee points and 2-3 protomech points in this Horse keshik (never really finished).  May be of interest:

Omicron Keshik —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/chh-omicron-keshik/msg1453228/#msg1453228
« Last Edit: 28 September 2022, 21:33:27 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

WONC

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #501 on: 28 September 2022, 21:36:07 »
Sweet! Appreciate the insight and help, y'all.

Also, that Hellion cluster is giving me the courage to test out a Trinary idea I had a while back, with one star of VTOLs, a star of elementals in Sylph suits, and a star of fast protomechs. Just for the beautiful chaos of it all. Also, I think I need to try out quadvees finally. I've been hesitant so far, but mostly because of general indecision.
« Last Edit: 28 September 2022, 21:38:23 by WONC »
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Kojak

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #502 on: 29 September 2022, 17:21:37 »
Sweet! Appreciate the insight and help, y'all.

Also, that Hellion cluster is giving me the courage to test out a Trinary idea I had a while back, with one star of VTOLs, a star of elementals in Sylph suits, and a star of fast protomechs. Just for the beautiful chaos of it all. Also, I think I need to try out quadvees finally. I've been hesitant so far, but mostly because of general indecision.

Re: Quadvees, the Notos is where it's at. A Nova of ten of those and five Points of LRM Gnomes is pretty spectacular.


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The Last Dance

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #503 on: 18 October 2022, 08:36:40 »
Greetings.

I was thinking of a HH Nova for Alpha Strike to complement my Jade Falcon forces. In terms of era, I was thinking Jihad, and I have 250 PV to work with. I definitely want Elementals in there, somewhere - but what OmniMechs would be good "signature" Hell's Horses machines to go with them?

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #504 on: 18 October 2022, 20:54:18 »
Greetings.

I was thinking of a HH Nova for Alpha Strike to complement my Jade Falcon forces. In terms of era, I was thinking Jihad, and I have 250 PV to work with. I definitely want Elementals in there, somewhere - but what OmniMechs would be good "signature" Hell's Horses machines to go with them?

250 is kinda tight for a full nova, Elementals eat up 100PV.

That aside CHH invented the Nova omnimech. If you dont mind metal, the Bailus was invented mid-Jihad as well, and is a totem Omni. The Stormcrow also came from the CHH Corvis, and in general is pretty common being one of the OG set of Omnimechs.

CHH also generally lack friends, outside of the Coyotes, and the Jihad strained that relationship. But they could have salvage from any number of people they didnt do well with, the Ghost Bears being their big feud.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #505 on: 19 October 2022, 12:26:59 »
Well… they HAD a big feud and then mid-Jihad and pre-Dark Age they ended up getting close. IlClan era well the HH Khan messed up badly and we went back to sleeping.

So if you’re going to be setting it the Jihad some CGB mechs aren’t the worst idea.

I’ll second the Stormcrow: I’ve recently been playing a couple variants and the usually perform well. My local opponent runs HH but a lot of his mechs are IIC or older designs… however Ugly as Sin Thunder Stallion also never disappoints.

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #506 on: 27 November 2022, 03:07:46 »
It's definitely a long shot of the highest order -- but if there was a stretch goal with a Clan vehicle pack in the next Kickstarter what would you like to see? I would be quite interested to see how a redesign / reimagining of these would go.

I assume the Epona is non-negotiable ...

2 x Epona
2 x ...
2 x ...
2 x ...
2 x ...

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #507 on: 27 November 2022, 04:05:14 »
The epona is just awesome, it’s gotta be in there

For the other 4 sets (just to make it a clan star)

Oro
Donar
Mars
Hachiman

The Oro/Hachiman could be swapped to something else. Maybe something wheeled to get a bit more variety in there, but nothing else is particularly exciting to me.

A support pack with some Badgers and Bandits would be nice as well
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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #508 on: 27 November 2022, 04:29:41 »
Epona Rhi  8) She's a hot one to handle ;D
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Ruger

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Re: Might Before Metal: Home of Clan Hell's Horses III
« Reply #509 on: 27 November 2022, 09:31:15 »
Epona-D
Hephaestus
Enyo
Bellona
Zephyros

Ruger
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