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Author Topic: Protomech Clusters  (Read 2716 times)

Nightsky

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Protomech Clusters
« on: 15 December 2012, 21:45:14 »
We saw that some Clans started using these around the time of the WoR, like the Spirits, Vipers and Cobras. So what do you think the composition of these Clusters would be? A straight 5 Trinaries of Protomechs, or would they have some supporting arms too?

Stormlion1

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #1 on: 15 December 2012, 21:59:17 »
Good money on the straight five Trinaries. I think at least one of the Spirit Galaxy was only made up of Proto's. Though for the life of me I can't think of which one.
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Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #2 on: 15 December 2012, 22:03:19 »
The Spirit with the bad haircut, Constans Cluff, was renowned for his fearless leadership of the sole Elemental Star in an otherwise all-ProtoMech Cluster, so I'd say supporting forces in at least the CBS examples are a given.
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Jaim Magnus

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #3 on: 15 December 2012, 23:01:10 »
The Snow Ravens Zeta Galaxy was almost exclusively Proto's as well.  Interestingly this is the Galaxy that was 'captured' by the Spirits.

I think there's some mixing at the cluster level, with stars of mechs and elementals thrown into the mix, but you'd still end up with a cluster that's 90% proto's.
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Maelwys

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #4 on: 16 December 2012, 02:00:28 »
I wonder if they simply replaced the `Mechs with ProtoMechs?

So 3 Trinaries of ProtoMechs, 1 Trinary of Elementals, 1 Trinary of Vehicles.

If the Spirits can make the change to Elementals instead of standard infantry, they can probably justify to themselves changing out the `Mechs for ProtoMechs. That way they have some flexibility, but can still say they kept to the Founder's wishes.

(of course, stating that there's only a single Elemental Star in an all ProtoMech cluster does kind of put the kibosh on that :) )

ShockaTime

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #5 on: 16 December 2012, 12:57:00 »
The Spirit with the bad haircut, Constans Cluff, was renowned for his fearless leadership of the sole Elemental Star in an otherwise all-ProtoMech Cluster, so I'd say supporting forces in at least the CBS examples are a given.

Hey now. No bad-talking the haircut ;D


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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #6 on: 16 December 2012, 13:05:15 »
I wonder if they simply replaced the `Mechs with ProtoMechs?

So 3 Trinaries of ProtoMechs, 1 Trinary of Elementals, 1 Trinary of Vehicles.

I agree that a protomech cluster needs infantry and vehicle (and aerospace) support to compete with a battlemech cluster.  Infantry (BA or otherwise) does things that no mech, proto or otherwise, does so they have to be part of the equation.  And protos so far lack the diversity of speed and firepower that mechs deliver, and vehicles are the best substitute for that if you can't get mechs.  Aero goes without saying.  Finally, protos have no omni capability.  So to substitute for a front-line omnimech cluster, protos probably need omnivehicle support.

I ginned up an experimental front-line protomech cluster for the Hell's Horses below a while back.  It consists of a trinary each of light, mid-weight, and heavy protos.  They're backed by a supernova trinary of Epona omnitanks and elementals, a nova of Heimdall omnitanks and elementals, a nova of fighters and air-droppable elementals, and a nova of artillery vehicles and elemental spotters.  Given the existence of air-to-ground Arrow IV, I'd probably replace the artillery nova with another fighter nova.

FWIW... hope it's useful.

===============

Trinary Supernova Command

Nova Command
     2x Heimdall, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Heimdall, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Heimdall, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Heimdall, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Heimdall, 5x Gnome LRM

Nova Fighter
     2x Kirghiz, 5x Elemental
     2x Kirghiz, 5x Elemental
     2x Kirghiz, 5x Elemental
     2x Kirghiz, 5x Elemental
     2x Kirghiz, 5x Elemental

Nova Artillery
     2x Huitzilopochtli AAA, 5x Elemental II
     2x Huitzilopochtli AAA, 5x Elemental II
     2x Huitzilopochtli AAA, 5x Elemental II
     2x Huitzilopochtli AAA, 5x Elemental II
     2x Huitzilopochtli AAA, 5x Elemental II

Trinary Supernova Cavalry
 
Alpha Nova
     2x Epona, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Epona, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Epona, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Epona, 5x Gnome LRM
     2x Epona, 5x Gnome LRM

Bravo Nova
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental

Charlie Nova
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental II
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental II
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental II
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental II
     2x Epona, 5x Elemental II

Trinary Assault

Alpha Assault
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa
     5x Gorgon 2
     5x Gorgon 2

Bravo Assault
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa
     5x Gorgon 2
     5x Gorgon 2

Charlie Assault
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa LRM
     5x Svartalfa
     5x Gorgon 2
     5x Gorgon 2

Trinary Battle

Alpha Battle
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Roc
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4

Bravo Battle
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Roc
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4

Charlie Battle
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Minotaur 3
     5x Roc
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4
     4x Roc, 1x Roc 4

Trinary Striker

Alpha Striker
     5x Procyon 2
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr
     
Bravo Striker
     5x Procyon 2
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr

Charlie Striker
     5x Procyon 2
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon Quad, 1x Satyr 4
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr
     4x Procyon, 1x Satyr
« Last Edit: 16 December 2012, 15:48:28 by Natasha Kerensky »
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truetanker

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #7 on: 19 December 2012, 01:23:49 »
In the Nova Fighter, only 3 of the Kirghiz need to be C, the rest can be a mix. Tho I'd personaly make a 4th one an Arrow bomber just so I could call in some support. On the Arillery Nova, Why not 4x Kirghiz, C's natch, 4x Huey AAA and 2x Hemidall + the Elemental IIs? You can now call in an airstrike and HALO troops where ever you need them, have a great artillery barrage incoming and be able to lay down some bodygaurd ATM-LB fire to boot.

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #8 on: 19 December 2012, 09:15:32 »
In the Nova Fighter, only 3 of the Kirghiz need to be C, the rest can be a mix.

Agreed.  I was just being lazy/fast when I threw this together.  I need to go back and refine that nova with some faster fighters.  I may keep five to six Kirghiz, though, so that heavier BA than Elemental suits can be dropped.

Quote
Tho I'd personaly make a 4th one an Arrow bomber just so I could call in some support.

It would depend on the mission.  I wouldn't specify omni-loadouts in the TO&E.  Too limiting.

Quote
On the Arillery Nova, Why not 4x Kirghiz, C's natch, 4x Huey AAA and 2x Hemidall + the Elemental IIs? You can now call in an airstrike and HALO troops where ever you need them, have a great artillery barrage incoming and be able to lay down some bodygaurd ATM-LB fire to boot.

That's not really an artillery nova anymore.  It's a combined arms nova, which I could put together for a mission from the different elements in Trinary Supernova Command.

Although I would put together such a combined arms nova for various scenarios, I wouldn't put it together that way in the TO&E.  Too limiting.  I prefer to keep my stars/novas pretty uniform and then mix and match between them as necessary.  If I'm a cluster commander, nothing says that I can't bid one point from one star or trinary with another point from another star or trinary, as long as both are part of my command.

In the end, I'm probably just going to drop the artillery nova and their slow, non-omni Hueys for a second fighter nova with another five to six Kirghiz that can be configured for BA drops, Arrow IV support, or traditional fighter roles.

My 2 C-bills... FWIW.  Thanks for the feedback.
« Last Edit: 19 December 2012, 09:26:16 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

alex blood spirit

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #9 on: 13 August 2022, 20:22:52 »
some information here

Stormlion1

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #10 on: 13 August 2022, 21:00:25 »
some information here

Talk about thread necromancy!
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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #11 on: 14 August 2022, 03:22:37 »
I think Proto's are great for PGC Duties, with combined arms Clusters, it can free up mechs. Especially in the case of the Jade Dominion and post ilClan Trial Terra, also would not their be a bigger pool of recruit able pilots ?

Side question: I read some where that a very new Proto did not need an Aerospace Pilot ?
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #12 on: 14 August 2022, 08:52:45 »
Technically you don't even need an aerospace pilot just someone small enough to fit in it with EI. The superheavies are a little more spacious. The original protopilots were aerospace because they have greater resistance to EI's detrimental effect and are smaller on average.

CJC070

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #13 on: 14 August 2022, 09:00:18 »
I think Proto's are great for PGC Duties, with combined arms Clusters, it can free up mechs. Especially in the case of the Jade Dominion and post ilClan Trial Terra, also would not their be a bigger pool of recruit able pilots ?

Side question: I read some where that a very new Proto did not need an Aerospace Pilot ?

As a side note the only Clans in the Inner Sphere that uses Protos are the Snow Ravens and Hells Horses.  I don’t know how common they are but for every other Clan they are either considered extinct or never used.

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #14 on: 14 August 2022, 12:59:24 »
The only ones that did not mess with them IIRC were the Nova Cats and Ghost Bears.

Additionally . . . it has not really been clarified if the SharkFoxes quit making Protos.
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CJC070

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #15 on: 14 August 2022, 14:44:05 »
The only ones that did not mess with them IIRC were the Nova Cats and Ghost Bears.

Additionally . . . it has not really been clarified if the SharkFoxes quit making Protos.

Considering in Field Report 3145 only the Snow Ravens and Hells Horses fielded Protomechs.  Sea Foxes may be producing but the question is who is buying?

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #16 on: 14 August 2022, 14:58:43 »
Your previous statement answered your own question.
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truetanker

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #17 on: 14 August 2022, 15:44:08 »
Why would another clan make a Proto for another when you want to keep secret your capabilities quite?

It's like shooting your foot and running 100K marathons, you don't.

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Colt Ward

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #18 on: 14 August 2022, 17:28:38 »
Because the Sharks had gained the ability to produce Gen1 protos . . . why stop making something if you can still sell it for a profit?
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Stormlion1

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #19 on: 14 August 2022, 21:52:24 »
The almighty Kerensky Dollar is that which drives the Sea Fox. They need the money so they create a export version for sale.
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Krachenvogel

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #20 on: 17 August 2022, 12:53:57 »
The only ones that did not mess with them IIRC were the Nova Cats and Ghost Bears.

Additionally . . . it has not really been clarified if the SharkFoxes quit making Protos.

Nova Cats definitely had protos, although they didn't have much if any production capacity which their Khan's decided not to develop in the wake of the Abjuration. Although according to MUL the Nova Cats maintained some protos till 3101 at the latest. The Satyr XP entry in TRO: Prototypes has most of the info on their protomech development.

Shark Foxes also have a protomech bloodname according to Wars of Reaving...

GreekFire

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #21 on: 17 August 2022, 13:03:36 »
The Foxes do not produce nor make use of ProtoMechs.
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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #22 on: 17 August 2022, 13:30:56 »
According to the MUL the only clans known to continue using Protomechs post 3101 are the Snow Ravens and the Hell's Horses.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #23 on: 17 August 2022, 13:43:27 »
The Foxes do not produce nor make use of ProtoMechs.

The use was clear, along with other users who had discontinued using.  But they were supposed to have been the source for the Warden Wolves' protomechs and when ER/FM3145 rolled out, their continuing production of protos had not been answered.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #24 on: 17 August 2022, 18:24:41 »
The use was clear, along with other users who had discontinued using.  But they were supposed to have been the source for the Warden Wolves' protomechs and when ER/FM3145 rolled out, their continuing production of protos had not been answered.

I'm suprised the Warden Wolves had been users of Protomechs.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #25 on: 17 August 2022, 20:03:34 »
Lol, so were the fans . . . big WTF
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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #26 on: 18 August 2022, 07:56:12 »
Lol, so were the fans . . . big WTF

Not exactly a tech I think the WiE would adopt honestly. Honestly unless they were really hard up for gear. Buying Inner Sphere mechs and upgrading them would make more sense.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Protomech Clusters
« Reply #27 on: 18 August 2022, 09:15:11 »
Conjecture was that the Star League- aka Victor- gave Phelan those bondsmen/POW survivor Protomech pilots from TF Serpent.  It is easier to keep a mechwarrior from a mech than a Proto pilot from their machine, particularly being new tech that they would not know about.  Leaving them on Huntress also leaves a target for Trials of Possession that would let other Clans gain a new weapon . . . since he would not execute them all, instead remove them from Clan space to hinder the other Clans.
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