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BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Jaim Magnus on 03 May 2017, 20:55:32

Title: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 03 May 2017, 20:55:32
I have taken the liberty of beginning the new thread, muah hahahaha!

Continue any and all discussions.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 03 May 2017, 21:20:22
I claim this thread for Clan Hell's Horses! Feel our hooves on your claws, our equine breath on your beaks as we trample all over your territory as our personal pastures! With what verbatim do you spur with, quiaff?

TT  ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 04 May 2017, 06:30:58
Push the button, Jaim.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 04 May 2017, 06:39:34
The shiny red button is a lie.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Archangel on 04 May 2017, 07:37:20
I claim this thread for Clan Hell's Horses! Feel our hooves on your claws, our equine breath on your beaks as we trample all over your territory as our personal pastures! With what verbatim do you spur with, quiaff?

TT  ;D

And I claim this thread in the name of the freedom loving people of the Alliance who are fed up with the Raven dictators and sick and tired of them making our cows milk curdle...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 04 May 2017, 08:45:49
Muerte a los opresores del Clan! Viva la Alianza!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 04 May 2017, 11:39:37
I for one welcome our new raven overlords.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 04 May 2017, 14:44:21

Pressing it!!!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 04 May 2017, 16:36:44
Pressing it!!!
Thank you.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 04 May 2017, 20:03:43
Yessss....do just that.
(http://www.dcrblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/shiny-red-button.gif)
Mwahahahah~
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 04 May 2017, 20:04:19
(http://ytimg.googleusercontent.com/vi/Ql9G_6S-dGE/mqdefault.jpg)


Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 04 May 2017, 22:49:07
I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 04 May 2017, 23:29:23
I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...

Huh.  You'd think that's be a thing.  Like, someone doing a version of a Skinner Box or something.  Wasn't one of the early Skinner Boxes with Pigeons or something like that?  Why not Corvids?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 05 May 2017, 07:43:06
Just finished reading 3145:Updates. The biggest surprise is that the Crossbow is on the 7 position for the Raven Alliance RAT

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 05 May 2017, 16:21:51
I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...
I couldn't find anything under crows either, but this picture might make a nice cluster insignia.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 05 May 2017, 18:32:04
Just finished reading 3145:Updates. The biggest surprise is that the Crossbow is on the 7 position for the Raven Alliance RAT

Wait, really?  Man, that, uh, must've been a lot of salvage they had.  Huh.

Well, another reason for me to like the Ravens, as I've always had a weird fondness for that Mech.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 05 May 2017, 18:41:20
Wait, really?  Man, that, uh, must've been a lot of salvage they had.  Huh.

Well, another reason for me to like the Ravens, as I've always had a weird fondness for that Mech.
I would not be surprised if the Ravens simply stored most of the salvaged CSV Crossbows, in case of a very rainy day.


ps. to any CGL staff listening, please, we need an Crossbow R (nicely critpacked and ENE please).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 05 May 2017, 19:28:48
I always just figured the crossbow was put into production as it was an easy-to-manufacture 'mech and with the Raven's limited resources is a good option to bolster the touman.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 05 May 2017, 21:12:15
I always just figured the crossbow was put into production as it was an easy-to-manufacture 'mech and with the Raven's limited resources is a good option to bolster the touman.

Ugh if we're doing a Viper mech we should rename it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 05 May 2017, 22:07:54
Meh, "Crossbow" is a pretty neutral name, and I claim it is Raven designed anyways, considering it was designed by stolen Raven scientists anyways.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 06 May 2017, 00:19:04
Meh, "Crossbow" is a pretty neutral name, and I claim it is Raven designed anyways, considering it was designed by stolen Raven scientists anyways.

Oh yeah I forgot Raven scientists made it. I retract my previous statement. Esp since the Ravens aren't currently making any Frontline Heavy 'mechs (unless you count the Bombardier or Merlin, which,  who am I kidding of course they're Frontline!)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Frogfoot on 06 May 2017, 17:37:57

The MUL lists the Crossbow as only used by Ravens during the Dark Age and the Early and Late Republic peroids. Prior to that, during the Jihad it actually had IS Clan General plus assorted Homeworlders.

That said, the MUL doesn't say how common mechs are, and the RATs are just a generalized way of rolling up a random force. You'll probably have to wait for a new Objectives book or an incidental line in another sourcebook (e.g ilClan, pg 93930 Appendix Z, "The Snow Raven Crossbow factory on Dante was levelled by Triumvirate genetitans in Aug 3184").
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 06 May 2017, 21:25:15
Given that Ravens are not only Clan Warship, but also Clan Technician, Clan Never-Throw-Anything-Away, and Clan Spiteful, I'd be TOTALLY okay with them having whipped up a Crossbow factory.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 06 May 2017, 21:44:21
The MUL lists the Crossbow as only used by Ravens during the Dark Age and the Early and Late Republic peroids. Prior to that, during the Jihad it actually had IS Clan General plus assorted Homeworlders.

Actually it falls under Clan Snow Raven in both the Clan Invasion and Civil War Eras (this era includes the IS clans, but at this point the Ravens aren't in the Inner Sphere in any sort of numbers yet ) - this is not a counter to your point, but adds some information - it then moves to IS Clan General in the Jihad Era, then the Raven Alliance in the three following eras.  This gives credence to the idea of a factory producing them, but that's still no guarantee there is one (stronger in that they are the only faction listed as using them in the later eras).  The ease of its manufacture is a supporting factor to this given the Raven's lack of general resources, but again, is not proof.

To me, there is enough circumstantial evidence to support the idea of a factory producing them in the Alliance - but without proof it is simply supposition.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 07 May 2017, 06:57:32
It actually makes sense that it is produced by the Raven Alliance.  Everything is standard technology except for the weapons and omnipods.  They can make them cheaply and give them to the Outworld units and say "Look, we're giving you omnimechs!".  Outworld techs wouldn't have difficulty maintaining them either.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 May 2017, 07:42:29
It actually makes sense that it is produced by the Raven Alliance.  Everything is standard technology except for the weapons and omnipods.  They can make them cheaply and give them to the Outworld units and say "Look, we're giving you omnimechs!".  Outworld techs wouldn't have difficulty maintaining them either.
And now we need an 'O' Loadout.  ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 07 May 2017, 07:51:24
I mean, I know that a lot of Vipers died in their mechs during the invasion of Lum, it just seems odd to me that there are so many Crossbows left in the RA 70 years later given the turnover in the Raven touman. I mean, we don't even have Minoraurs or Centaurs left on our Protomech RATs by 3145, but we have somehow have Crossbows...  ??? Maybe our R-teams did a really good job? Or the Raven Touman really is that small now and we're really only talking about only 10 Crossbows here?

Given that salvaged Mechs are almost always in the 2 or 12 position on RATs (e.g. Black Lanner on the Steel Viper tables in FM:WC, Blood Kites on the Star Adder tables, etc) a 7 position would seem to imply that the RA produces them. I'm not the biggest fan of the Crossbow, partially because of its association with the Viper aesthetic but also not least of which is that it can't even manage to have 20 points of armor on certain locations (bleh!) The only variant that suits my style is the B, although the E seems intriguing.

I would be inclined to agree that it's in easy Omnimech to churn out, given that it doesn't have any advanced components, you really just need Omni pods and you're good to go.

Of course, the question on my mind is why didn't we start up a Stormcrow factory? It's basically the Raven totem Mech and is all I could ask for (why bother producing heavy Mechs when you have the Stormcrow?). The Ryoken II however, is a joke.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 May 2017, 08:10:42
But the Ryoken III shows possibilities.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 May 2017, 08:19:36
I mean, I know that a lot of Vipers died in their mechs during the invasion of Lum, it just seems odd to me that there are so many Crossbows left in the RA 70 years later given the turnover in the Raven touman. I mean, we don't even have Minoraurs or Centaurs left on our Protomech RATs by 3145, but we have somehow have Crossbows...  ??? Maybe our R-teams did a really good job? Or the Raven Touman really is that small now and we're really only talking about only 10 Crossbows here?

Given that salvaged Mechs are almost always in the 2 or 12 position on RATs (e.g. Black Lanner on the Steel Viper tables in FM:WC, Blood Kites on the Star Adder tables, etc) a 7 position would seem to imply that the RA produces them. I'm not the biggest fan of the Crossbow, partially because of its association with the Viper aesthetic but also not least of which is that it can't even manage to have 20 points of armor on certain locations (bleh!) The only variant that suits my style is the B, although the E seems intriguing.

I would be inclined to agree that it's in easy Omnimech to churn out, given that it doesn't have any advanced components, you really just need Omni pods and you're good to go.
I can imagine that any remaining Minotaurs or Centaurs were traded to CHH, while the Raven focused more on the Roc and Gorgon. Also there is no way to tell how many Crossbows were salvaged and perhaps stored over the centuries.


Quote
Of course, the question on my mind is why didn't we start up a Stormcrow factory? It's basically the Raven totem Mech and is all I could ask for (why bother producing heavy Mechs when you have the Stormcrow?). The Ryoken II however, is a joke.
The Raven are likely hand-building Stormcrows (like the Wolfs were doing with Timber Wolfs), until the Ryoken III becomes available.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 07 May 2017, 08:21:19
But the Ryoken III shows possibilities.

The RA should trial for this Mech.

Btw, who wants to invade Terra along the way?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 07 May 2017, 10:32:28
The RA should trial for this Mech.

Btw, who wants to invade Terra along the way?

Phfft. Terra just paints a giant target on whoever holds it. Better to be an 'ally' of whoever holds it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 07 May 2017, 11:17:44
Totally unrelated: anyone want to help me get a fan funded Hippogriff in the works?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 07 May 2017, 23:43:36
Phfft. Terra just paints a giant target on whoever holds it. Better to be an 'ally' of whoever holds it.

Would there be a clan that we WOULDN'T want to be allied with? I know I personally don't like Wolf or Jade Falcon (and really only like Hells Horses when they're not Crusaders), but would the RA care if it weren't the Bears or, to a lesser amount, the Sea Foxes?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 08 May 2017, 00:18:28
Would there be a clan that we WOULDN'T want to be allied with? I know I personally don't like Wolf or Jade Falcon (and really only like Hells Horses when they're not Crusaders), but would the RA care if it weren't the Bears or, to a lesser amount, the Sea Foxes?

If the Sea Foxes get Terra, you know prices everywhere will skyrocket.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 08 May 2017, 06:48:39
Paticuarly when Harjel is found on Terra!

Terran Harjel. Three times the potential!

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 08 May 2017, 19:45:19
Paticuarly when Harjel is found on Terra!

Terran Harjel. Three times the potential!

TT

It must be Red Harjel.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 16 May 2017, 15:57:52
Blue harjel is only found on the ocean floor,that's why the sea foxes will find it
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: sadlerbw on 16 May 2017, 15:59:40
I have to say, I've got more than a passing curiosity about what is going to happen to the Raven fleet come ilClan time. Right now, they have far and away the most powerful navy in the Inner Sphere...when it's all active. However, they are having a hard time justifying the cost of keeping that huge fleet active with nothing to do with it. So, something will have to give and I doubt the Raven fleet will keep sitting around looking pretty for ilClan.

Do they try to start conquering more systems? Sounds nice, but unless all you want to do is blow them up, you need ground forces to hold planets. A warship fleet would be fine for blockading someplace, or even raiding to steal some of their stuff, but you can't really claim and hold a planet with a space ship. Heck, they are already having trouble managing the few worlds they have already taken or been given, how are they going to raise the tempo enough to give three full stars of Warships something to do? Being able to show up in orbit and broadcast, "Hey guys, you all belong to the Raven Alliance now," isn't going to cut it.

Do they lend/sell some of them? Probably not to their neighbors, who would likely end up turning around and using them against the Ravens before long, but maybe to the Sea Foxes or the RasDom. The Bears especially have most of their eggs in one big basket (or two, if the Leviathan III comes online), and could use the ability to station at least SOME naval power in different places across their empire. They have a whole lot of space to protect and one warship just can't be everywhere at once. They also seem to have abundant 'resources' which they could trade to the Ravens. They have Mechs, AeroSpace assets, Raw Materials, pretty much anything other than trained warriors, and even those might be possible with some sort of contrived trial. The Sea Foxes also have resources, and might not be averse to picking up a couple more hulls they can convert for Aimag duty.

Do they go to war with someone and get many of them blown up? That's going to be a little tough to manage. Their two neighbors have only three warships between them, two of which are corvettes, and they are unlikely to be more than a speedbump in a fight with even a single naval star. The FedSuns and the Combine just don't have the naval power to do much damage to a real naval star. So, who would they fight? The Falcons and the Wolves are really the only powers that have something approaching a credible fleet that could seriously damage or kill one of the Raven's naval stars. Unfortunately, they are on the other side of the Sphere. Heck, even if they somehow managed to hitch a ride on the 'Come conquer Terra...again!' bandwagon, the Republic isn't exactly flush with warships. And really, how many times can the magical SDS systems be resurrected and cripple yet another fleet. That system has been destroyed at LEAST three times already, how much can really be left!? Maybe if you could somehow convince the Bears and the Ravens to get in a fight, you might be able to erase some of the Raven fleet and the big Leviathans at the same time, but that seems like a stretch. They have always been friendly towards each other, and they are separated by the whole of the Combine. Why would they bother fighting each other?

I guess there is always the boring old 'stick them back in mothballs' option, but I find that unsatisfying.

So, what do you folks think might happen with the fleet?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 16 May 2017, 16:21:56
So, what do you folks think might happen with the fleet?

I see two real options for their use during this era.

1.  They are going to die.  It might be spectacular, or it might be with a whimper but I can see them getting destroyed to bring the focus nearly completely back to the ground game.

2.  They are going to be "consumed" by the ilClan which happens to force, coerce, or otherwise integrate the remaining clans (perhaps minus the Ghost Bears as they barely exist as clan anymore) into a single faction with each existing clan assuming a specific role within the organization.  The Wolves would be the higher end rank and file forces, the Falcons take on the role of shock troops, the Horses assume the more general rank and file forces, while the Foxes continue their role of armed merchants working to build up the faction's economy, and lastly the Ravens would be in charge of the navy.  If the Bears were to end up included in this, they'd probably end up being a clan that properly utilizes material resource extraction.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 16 May 2017, 16:51:20
Warships can be used for orbital fire support against massed enemy formations.  The key is having a REALLY good gunner at the controls.  They can also be used for destroying factories or burning industrial districts with an hour's warning to keep the loss of life to a minimum.  In this sense, they are giant engines of coercion. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 May 2017, 17:02:27
I see two real options for their use during this era.

1.  They are going to die.  It might be spectacular, or it might be with a whimper but I can see them getting destroyed to bring the focus nearly completely back to the ground game.

2.  They are going to be "consumed" by the ilClan which happens to force, coerce, or otherwise integrate the remaining clans (perhaps minus the Ghost Bears as they barely exist as clan anymore) into a single faction with each existing clan assuming a specific role within the organization.  The Wolves would be the higher end rank and file forces, the Falcons take on the role of shock troops, the Horses assume the more general rank and file forces, while the Foxes continue their role of armed merchants working to build up the faction's economy, and lastly the Ravens would be in charge of the navy.  If the Bears were to end up included in this, they'd probably end up being a clan that properly utilizes material resource extraction.

3. Exodus to the deep, deep, outer periphery. The Ravens have learned that it is good to have an exit plan ready, and with trouble brewing they prepared themselves for both combat and a possible exodus.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: sadlerbw on 17 May 2017, 00:11:50
Warships can be used for orbital fire support against massed enemy formations.  The key is having a REALLY good gunner at the controls.  They can also be used for destroying factories or burning industrial districts with an hour's warning to keep the loss of life to a minimum.  In this sense, they are giant engines of coercion.

Yeah, but you probably don't want to blow stuff like that up if you are trying to conquer the planet. I mean, if you want all that nice, shiny industry working for you, you can't very well shoot at it!

As for using it against massed forces, yeah that is certainly a thing, and quite effective. What I'm saying is, say you park a Cameron in orbit of some planet and tell everyone they are part of the Raven Alliance...and they say no. What do you do? If you are trying to capture the planet and make it part of your nation, you can't very well just start blowing up cities or fragging every dropship that leaves the surface. You would be blowing up the whole reason you wanted the planet in the first place. Warships can win battles, but you need ground forces to control a planet.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 17 May 2017, 00:38:40
3. Exodus to the deep, deep, outer periphery. The Ravens have learned that it is good to have an exit plan ready, and with trouble brewing they prepared themselves for both combat and a possible exodus.

True, and while I consider that very Raveny I do not think it would be allowed to happen.  Certainly they could go off into the aether, but at that point their story likely ends, and I would rather that not happen.

I had meant to add a wishful element in how the Ravens could use their warships, as long as they kept their borders relatively small, they could use their warships as a wall as they gradually expand towards the core of the Inner Sphere.  They probably could not take much more than a score of systems before this was no longer a reasonable option, but they could pick up some important more heavily industrialized and populous worlds doing so.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: sadlerbw on 17 May 2017, 10:04:03
I was thinking about this a little more last night, and came up with an admittedly odd and unlikely idea:

The Ravens could become the enforcement arm of the Sea Foxes. If the Wolves and Falcons keep getting less strictly clan in their behavior, it could become dangerous for the Aimags operating out in their space. While the foxes have Warships, I understand that they have largely been stripped and converted to be massive merchant vessels and may not be much good in a fight. The Ravens could decide it sucks out in the Periphery and merge with the Sea Foxes to provide them a real naval force to protect them in their travels. That would potentially split the fleet up over the whole sphere and help give it a reason to exist without being an overwhelming single force.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 17 May 2017, 14:05:04
You guys are thinking wrong!

They will place a Capital ship over the planet, place their demands, get refused and open fire on the surface with capital weapons. Most likely in a deserted place.They may even land a dropship and destroy it on the ground!

OR

They may jump back towards Home world and try to reclaim lost territory.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 17 May 2017, 16:34:32
Yeah, but you probably don't want to blow stuff like that up if you are trying to conquer the planet. I mean, if you want all that nice, shiny industry working for you, you can't very well shoot at it!
This is for planets that are too far to garrison or too difficult to capture.  You would be saying to this hostile power "Do not annoy us or we will halve you GNP."
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 17 May 2017, 17:51:25
If the planet can't get to the WS then they most likely won't argue (remember the shiny red button)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: sadlerbw on 17 May 2017, 21:50:22
If the planet can't get to the WS then they most likely won't argue (remember the shiny red button)

The FM:3145 entry for Delta Galaxy notes that the galaxy was basically forced off the surface of a planet they had captured by a non-compliant population they couldn't deal with.They still nominally control the planets in question through threat of orbital bombardment, but even with with warships around to blow stuff up, they were forced to leave the planet by locals with car bombs. Their warships were enough to 'own' the planet, but not enough to actually control it. It has to be sort of embarrassing at clan social functions to be forced to say, "That is our planet, but we don't ever go down there anymore. The locals would kills us if we did."
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 28 May 2017, 11:18:50
(http://www.allgeektome.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/dd38.jpg)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 28 May 2017, 11:33:47

Lets use both hands.  >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 28 May 2017, 12:54:50
I'm broadly in favor of John Hurt and/or the Doctor being Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 28 May 2017, 18:31:13
We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 28 May 2017, 18:31:38
Ha!

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 28 May 2017, 18:54:04
We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)

John Hurts, the Doctors, or Shiny Big Red Buttons?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 May 2017, 19:05:04
John Hurts, the Doctors, or Shiny Big Red Buttons?

Yes.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 28 May 2017, 19:31:18
Yes.

Your ideas intrigue me.  Is there perhaps a newsletter I could subscribe to?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 28 May 2017, 23:14:13
Hail DG, back from the dead
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 29 May 2017, 07:06:38
Yes.
What he said.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 02 June 2017, 11:57:48
Hehe, I have returned from the Umbra, all shiny and Chrome...

I bringeth The Doctor as He is Snow Raven.

*nodnods*
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 02 June 2017, 11:59:11
We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)

Trothkin; you mean, you do not!?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 02 June 2017, 12:07:07
Yes.

JAIM KNOWS WHAT IS UP.

*NODNODS*
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 02 June 2017, 16:34:45
Trothkin; you mean, you do not!?
The budget has been tight! [soapbox]  That and we're having trouble finding someone who can integrate it with the old SLDF computer systems. :-[
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 02 June 2017, 17:18:10
The budget has been tight! [soapbox]  That and we're having trouble finding someone who can integrate it with the old SLDF computer systems. :-[
If the budget has been really tight, you should just grab one from the toilet, all our toilets have one.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 02 June 2017, 20:21:25
If the budget has been really tight, you should just grab one from the toilet, all our toilets have one.

Orbital Bombardment has numerous definitions among the Snow Ravens. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 03 June 2017, 00:49:51
My button is fancy. It's orange and glows with the bezel around the mounting plate is studded with diamonds and emeralds. I took it as isorla from a pirate on Antallos.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 June 2017, 04:36:33
One of the in universe questions that has vexed me for a while:

So we spent all this effort putting boots on the ground invading Antallos and lost a cluster or two there along the way (per HTP: Antallos) but Antallos isn't part of the RA later on. And it isn't a ghost world (still appears on maps). What gives? Any ideas?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 03 June 2017, 05:08:20
At a guess, after eliminating all the pirates, the Raven Khans deemed the world unfit for occupation and left it to its own devices. It willlikely become a haven for pirates once more and then squashed flat ... again
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 03 June 2017, 05:23:54
At a guess, after eliminating all the pirates, the Raven Khans deemed the world unfit for occupation and left it to its own devices. It willlikely become a haven for pirates once more and then squashed flat ... again
So a pirate farm?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 03 June 2017, 06:47:30
One of the in universe questions that has vexed me for a while:

So we spent all this effort putting boots on the ground invading Antallos and lost a cluster or two there along the way (per HTP: Antallos) but Antallos isn't part of the RA later on. And it isn't a ghost world (still appears on maps). What gives? Any ideas?
The Ravens were looking for something specific, not trying to annex Antallos.  We don't know what it was or if they found it, but the rest of the world is pretty useless.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 June 2017, 09:20:59
More useless than Rezak's Hole?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 03 June 2017, 09:34:49
Just to point it out, but the Ravens also cleared much of the wastes of pirates and they still did not annex any of those planets.

Antallos is really only an important world to pirates and less-than-savory mercs, and after the Raven attack probably not either of them anymore.  It is not a particularly industrial or populated planet.  In the end, it is a bit too far away from other Raven holdings and the Ravens are too small of a clan to maintain forces there for long.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: sadlerbw on 05 June 2017, 12:14:34
Orbital Bombardment has numerous definitions among the Snow Ravens.

I laughed way, way harder at this than I probably should have. The mental images it conjured were priceless!

Anyway, I've always been a little surprised that the Ravens didn't officially expand back out into the abandoned worlds of the Periphery more than they have. I know colonization isn't sexy to the clans, but all some of those worlds were lacking was steady access to advanced technology. I would have expected at least SOME worlds to still have valuable resources, and the Ravens to have access to the SL-era tech needed to keep them habitable. It's not like the Clans are all that shy about living on marginal worlds, so I always expected a few more scattered colonies to pop up further out in the previously abandoned areas...but they never really have.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 05 June 2017, 12:46:14
*tinfoil hat on* That you know of. *tinfoil hat off*
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 05 June 2017, 12:51:34
The Ravens really are not hurting for living space.  Remember, they went from living on the equivalent of about 4 worlds to about 40.  In addition their overall population probably was cut to maybe 10% of their 3067 population (my estimation for this is that they went from about 97 million to around 10 million, though I feel this number may be a bit high).  And while they could certainly provide the limited required technology to the waste worlds, I doubt they felt it was much of a priority. 

Lastly, the clans in general - and the Ravens are no different - focus much too heavily into the very near future, they might have a 1-year plan, and a general idea of the way they are headed in 5 years, but by no means an actual plan.  This feature of the clans severely diminishes the effectiveness of their top-down-based industrial output, particularly as it relates to anything not military.

This means to me that while the waste worlds may like that the Ravens got rid of the pirates, their subsequent lack of interactions probably decreased whatever goodwill they engendered.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: snewsom2997 on 05 June 2017, 13:38:52
The Ravens really are not hurting for living space.  Remember, they went from living on the equivalent of about 4 worlds to about 40.  In addition their overall population probably was cut to maybe 10% of their 3067 population (my estimation for this is that they went from about 97 million to around 10 million, though I feel this number may be a bit high).  And while they could certainly provide the limited required technology to the waste worlds, I doubt they felt it was much of a priority. 

Lastly, the clans in general - and the Ravens are no different - focus much too heavily into the very near future, they might have a 1-year plan, and a general idea of the way they are headed in 5 years, but by no means an actual plan.  This feature of the clans severely diminishes the effectiveness of their top-down-based industrial output, particularly as it relates to anything not military.

This means to me that while the waste worlds may like that the Ravens got rid of the pirates, their subsequent lack of interactions probably decreased whatever goodwill they engendered.

One year plan is all you can do when your first bad decision brings a host of Trials of Grievance or Refusal, which can be fatal and which tend to add a lot of turnover in the mix.

I think the Bears got it closest to getting it right in the IS, keep the military Clan, for everyone else they become Civilians. The need for civilian castes is nill, when you have a realm with a population in the Billions, you even get enough diamonds in the rough to inject new blood into your genetic program with Free Births were a clan so inclined.

The Ravens Picked/Conquered the wrong realm, not that they had a better choice. The hippie peaceniks of the OA, were never going to integrate into anything militarily driven like the clans, after all most of them live in the OA to escape that.

Though it could be interesting if they simply took over the Tortuga Cluster, and set up shop there, though whether or not they could keep their tech would be debatable, and whether they'd have enough people would be debatable too.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 16 June 2017, 15:15:06
OK, I could not let such a travesty stand; the Turkey thread was actually getting some use, and was at the top of the list. Ewww.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 17 June 2017, 09:50:33
OK, I could not let such a travesty stand; the Turkey thread was actually getting some use, and was at the top of the list. Ewww.
As of right now, the Jade Turkeys have read your post and put themselves back.  Hopefully this post will restore balance to the Force.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 17 June 2017, 11:31:19
* Goes turkey hunting, err ToP... yeah, ToP for the most Post! *

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 19 June 2017, 14:30:42
What annoys me most about the Jade Turkeys is not that they dropped their most effective warship on a plant.  On the contrary, it was one less ship to challenge our supremacy.  No, what annoyed me was that it was a Nightlord.  We built it!  If they didn't want it, then they should have given it back to us. >:(
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 19 June 2017, 15:14:07
Seeing what the used WS market is,,,I agree cause it's a classic
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 19 June 2017, 19:02:39
I can't remember who came up with this nickname, but I still think the best name for a Nightlord is the Eminent Domain.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 20 June 2017, 00:07:52
I can't remember who came up with this nickname, but I still think the best name for a Nightlord is the Eminent Domain.

Would pair well with the Leviathan 'Manifest Destiny'.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tegyrius on 21 June 2017, 19:04:16
Would pair well with the Leviathan 'Manifest Destiny'.

It's in a naval star with the Lola III-class Freedom of Navigation.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 21 June 2017, 23:19:23
And hey definitely could have given it to us Bears as well: ' Ursa Major II' and the DCA would have panicked and started flipping tables: sending every Warship, Dropship, and Aerospace Fighter to the Dominion Border to stop it.

What annoys me most about the Jade Turkeys is not that they dropped their most effective warship on a plant.  On the contrary, it was one less ship to challenge our supremacy.  No, what annoyed me was that it was a Nightlord.  We built it!  If they didn't want it, then they should have given it back to us. >:(
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 17 July 2017, 13:43:02
Does not feel right talking with clanners, but if have work to do, you have work to do...

 Does any know of reference on what factories the Raven managed to evacuate from the Homeworlds? My experience with the WoR books is little, so i come here for your knowledge in the matter at hand.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 17 July 2017, 14:01:40
As far as I can tell virtually none of the true manufacturing facilities.  Most of the potemkins-class warships which survived had some bare-bones factories built in their cavernous cargo bays - which may or may not be built around the core components of homeworld factories.  Most of the support the Ravens have been able to give to upgrade the Alliance factories seems to primarily be in expertise and smaller but more effective pieces of equipment - and this support has only been giving to certain factories (as seen in the Cadaver in TRO 3145, the Raven Alliance still produces BattleMechs with Inner Sphere levels of technology).

Some specifics (paraphrased, for the most part, from Objectives - The Clans):
Snow Raven Insdustrial Complex Alpha - started as a bunch of mobile factories which were morphed into a true factory complex.  Builds Battlemechs and battle armor
United Outworlders Corporation on Mitchella - new complex, unknown origin.  Builds battlemechs and combat vehicles, perhaps a bit more was intended but this is all we know for sure.
Crest Foundries, Quatre Belle - Started as a mobile factory
CSR Battle Armor Facility Alpha, Ramora - unknown origin
UOC, Ramor - adopted clan manufacturing techniques
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 17 July 2017, 16:25:32
Does not feel right talking with clanners, but if have work to do, you have work to do...

 Does any know of reference on what factories the Raven managed to evacuate from the Homeworlds? My experience with the WoR books is little, so i come here for your knowledge in the matter at hand.
Honestly, we really don't know.  WoR seemed to be deliberately vague to give the writers maneuvering room in this matter.  However, they did state that the largest and most important convoy was captured or destroyed by the Adders.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 17 July 2017, 16:44:39
The 3145/3150 TRO series gives you an idea of the sorts of things that are still being built.

And of course if you don't need to distinguish between what's still being built and what's just still around in large number, you can look at the availability filters for units on the MUL.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 20 July 2017, 05:28:54
A lot of stuff on the RA RAT is utter trash (Rokurokubi, Dasher II, Jaguar, I'm looking at you) but at least we have the Goshawk II, which is nice.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 20 July 2017, 20:22:12
A lot of stuff on the RA RAT is utter trash (Rokurokubi, Dasher II, Jaguar, I'm looking at you) but at least we have the Goshawk II, which is nice.

It's a quad, and it would be nice to unify the SRMs with the ATM launcher (although infernos can prove useful).  But the Jaguar is a pretty solid design, IMO.  I might trade Dark Crow production for Jaguar production, for example.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 21 July 2017, 01:21:46
If we are going by visual aesthetics alone, I would get rid of the Dark Crow before I would the jaguar. The Dark Crow is one odd-looking duck. I hate the gun placement.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 21 July 2017, 11:38:28
See, I really enjoy the aesthetics of the Dark Crow. I like it because it's different. I would like to see an expansion of that look moving forward.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 21 July 2017, 11:52:51
See, I really enjoy the aesthetics of the Dark Crow. I like it because it's different. I would like to see an expansion of that look moving forward.
I also don't mind the looks, too bad it too undergunned for my taste.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 22 July 2017, 01:03:29
I also don't mind the looks, too bad it too undergunned for my taste.

I don't mind the Dark Crow, either. Actually, I rather enjoy it's goofiness. Although I admit that it's a little under armored and under gunned. There was a rumour from a TPTBer way back that the Dark Crow was a reference to me  ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 22 July 2017, 04:04:56

A what if question: What if all the CSR Convoys managed to arrive safely in the AO?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 22 July 2017, 08:55:36
A what if question: What if all the CSR Convoys managed to arrive safely in the AO?

As a Horse clansman, I see the opportunity to recover this as isola for my clan.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 22 July 2017, 08:56:09
So your saying that the Surat snakes didn't ambush em?For one they'd be in a stronger position with the outworlders,take a few more worlds from the IS,throw a few more ships at the WoB and finally set up that Star League tech Disco ball factory 😆
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 22 July 2017, 22:51:36
You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 23 July 2017, 00:03:30
You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...

Just think of those on a Naval Scale.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 24 July 2017, 12:37:43
Just think of those on a Naval Scale.

I...I CAN!!!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 24 July 2017, 17:15:03
Maybe they would work better as LAMs.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 25 July 2017, 04:25:52
Since i don't use dark crows, how do they team up with mad dog mkIII's?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 25 July 2017, 15:47:37
Since i don't use dark crows, how do they team up with mad dog mkIII's?

I think together they're too much of the same thing -- both are relatively light on armor (9.5 and 8 tons) and lacking in hole-punching weapons (nothing bigger than a 10-point ER large laser).

But if you want lots of mobile fire support, they are close in speed (5/8 and 6/9) and both have oodles of 21+ hex weapons (Ultra-5s, ER large lasers, LRMs, RAC-5s), depending on the exact loadout for the Vulture III.

Although it's slightly faster, I might be tempted to stick the Dark Crow in the backfield with its thinner armor and fixed long-range weapons and go with one of the shorter-ranged Vulture III configs, like the A and C's massed SRMs or the Prime's ER medium laser array.  They'd sorta complement each other that way.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 11 October 2017, 11:26:49
I'd be interested in hearing what Raven Alliance forces people do use. Is anyone running Touman formations side by side with AMC?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 11 October 2017, 17:22:09
I only use Protomechs...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 12 October 2017, 18:39:01
Bombardiers and Bowmans... with a lot of Rifleman-3N(C)s to boot.

TT

The above was ment as  JOKE!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 17 October 2017, 11:15:13
I was not joking.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 22 October 2017, 12:22:52
Oh I know you weren't joking Crow.

I can see you with Binaries of Proto's in your little neck of the woods taking over!

Using mixed Stars of Hippogriffs and Roc 5s to your advantage, am I right?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 24 October 2017, 12:11:42
I like the pre-Jihad selection the most to be honest. Give me Chrysaor 2s, Rock 1s and Gorgon 1s and 3s. That's about all you need
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 24 October 2017, 15:50:37
How do you like to field them?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 26 October 2017, 07:27:32
How do you like to field them?

Typically 3-5 points of Protos and a Mech or two. I either use fast annoying Mechs like the Incubus or Goshawk II or beefy zombies like Warhammer IIc or Omen. The point is to have Mech support that is strong enough to be a threat and take fire instead of Protos and have at least one hole punching weapon.

I never ever field Protos in anything but broken terrain

I've wanted to field Protos with AMC infantry tanks like the Hunter, Po and Rommel, but I haven't gotten around to it
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 26 October 2017, 19:11:21
I have a point of Rocs but I haven’t fielded them yet. What would be good to support them with or what would they support well?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 28 October 2017, 01:16:16
Rocs are good supporting pretty much everything, really.

Another fun thing that I like to do is use Rocs as support for Elementals. But only in cities or very broken terrain! The Elementals crit seek and the Rocs have the (relatively) big guns and mobility. You could also use Minotaurs for this role

You want to keep your opponent from being able to focus on your Protos, because they don't stand up to too fire (watch out for LBX, pulse lasers and infernos). I use Protos as mobile flanking forces for my main force. What other Mechs do you have?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 28 October 2017, 05:08:30

I use Rocs mostly to support Heavy Battle Stars, they really keep the flanks and rear clear of backstabbers.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 28 October 2017, 23:29:34
Other than the Rocs, and from memory, I have some infantry, Elementals, and Salamander BA. For Mechs I have a Timber Wolf, couple Atlases, Warhammer IIC, Highlander IIC, WarHawk, Ice Ferret, Vulture, Horned Owl, BattleMaster.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 11 November 2017, 11:39:37
The Dark Crow entry in TRO 3085 makes passing reference to Snow Raven “S-Teams” - is that elaborated on elsewhere?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 11 November 2017, 11:52:51
FM: Warden Clans I think.  A quick and dirty doing of S-Teams is that they are salvage teams purpose-built to do combat recovery.

I usually peg them at 2-3 'mechs with hands, 2-3 battle armor points and a point of vehicles, but as far as I can tell an actual equipment outfit isn't mentioned anywhere.

I also don't think they are included in the TOE force listings, being considered the equivalent of uncounted militia/garrison units, though they are significantly more important than that.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 11 November 2017, 13:09:10
Vition, you're thinking of R-Teams.

S-Teams are the new teams that use space capable units. They are mechs, battle armour, and protomechs that operate in the void. That's really about all we know.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 11 November 2017, 13:10:55
Oops, yep, my bad, not enough coffee yet.  :-X
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: MD on 14 November 2017, 23:41:26
Hail, trothkin. How goes the good fight in my absence? Glassed any Adders recently? I trust you've kept my perch warm.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 15 November 2017, 15:36:16
Hail, trothkin. How goes the good fight in my absence? Glassed any Adders recently? I trust you've kept my perch warm.

Always, trothkin. Good to see you back again from the Void.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 07 December 2017, 13:35:31
Here's an obvious question for this thread:

What are your favourite aerospace units for providing ground support?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Archangel on 07 December 2017, 18:13:20
Leviathan II Class Battleships, of course.   >:D  (You did say aerospace units right?)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 07 December 2017, 18:46:06
Sure, vaporizing the ground in question can count as ground support.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 07 December 2017, 19:23:10
I see your Leviathan II and raise you Galaxies of Corax C's!

Corax C:  [drool]

EDIT: I'd like to modify my post, please.

Add Titan-Cs and Titan Monitors for overwatch these Corax in motion.

Thank you,
TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 07 December 2017, 20:03:27
Visigoths, Jagatais, Sabutais and Hydaspes in ye olden days

Coraxes, Lightnings and Wusuns these days
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 05 January 2018, 10:06:00
Here's an obvious question for this thread:

What are your favourite aerospace units for providing ground support?

I like the tried and true drop a Jengiz on it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 28 January 2018, 14:53:16
Howdy Unkindness. Just dropping in to see what's up in the air over here.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 28 January 2018, 14:55:55
You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...
Can't go wrong with Disco Elementals.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 02 March 2018, 11:24:32

There's a Corax C2 in the MUL:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2)

Says it's from TRO: Prototypes, but I don't see any such variant in the book.

Does anyone have the correct source and stats?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 March 2018, 11:31:08
Well, the Corax C is on page 192 of TRO Prototypes. My guess would be that the C2 refers to the proposed variant in the end of the write-up, which proposes swapping the missiles out for a large laser and armour or a targeting computer.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 02 March 2018, 11:45:15
Well, the Corax C is on page 192 of TRO Prototypes. My guess would be that the C2 refers to the proposed variant in the end of the write-up, which proposes swapping the missiles out for a large laser and armour or a targeting computer.

Yeah, it actually says "and additional armor, weapons or even a targeting computer could
be added as well," which could be anything.  I was hoping there was something more definitive about what else is added besides the large pulse.  But thanks.  Good to know I wasn't missing something.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 14 March 2018, 10:52:24
Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maelwys on 14 March 2018, 11:34:53
I'm not sure there's any room for the Ravens in the Shattered Fortress Storyline except as a spoiler. FM3145 has them struggling to hold what they got/took from the Draconis Combine and FedSuns, and mention their ground forces being ill-equipped and too small to really handle their duties, much less an expansion of their duties.

So I think their only possible purpose is going to be as a spoiler. If they go heavy against the FedSuns, then that would prevent the FedSuns from helping out the Republic (even more than the clan Invasion). If they go against the Draconis Combine, it will take pressure off the FedSuns, allow them to regroup, and maybe help out the Republic. If they go against both (and that's probably unlikely considering the issues they had in FM3145) then they could take pressure off the FS from the DC and possibly keep both those factions from dealing with the Republic.

So yeah. Not really seeing them playing a direct role in the issue, but depending on where (and if) they jump, they could potentially tie up/free some of the others involved in the fighting.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 14 March 2018, 11:50:35
Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Claims a large number of worlds from the Fed Suns by stabbing the Dracs when they don't expect it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 14 March 2018, 12:04:28
Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Provide fleet support for a surprise Clan attack?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: snewsom2997 on 14 March 2018, 13:41:19
IF they are not or have not consolidated their position, I doubt they can do anything more than be an annoyance, they may take some more worlds on the fringe, but they would start to come into contact with the Dragoons on the DCMS/FS border. Assuming they haven't been moved. While both the FS and DCMS may be busy now, the RA cannot hope to stand up to either by themselves, much less if they come to an agreement and hit from both sides like the reunification wars all over again, only this time for a reason instead of the pretext of one. RA best bet in the last 10 years would be to crank up the Iron Wombs, really crank them up, not 25 or 50 but thousands per bloodname. Build the Tech, Scientist, Labor and Merchant classes up since they cannot figure out how to integrate with the OA to the point they would work in Raven factories. Of course they should have been doing this for the last 50 years, along with having harvest trials for other clans civies in the IS, all but the GBs would be amenable for the right price. Being in a realm of Amish Luddites isn't helping them at all.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 14 March 2018, 16:11:02
Provide fleet support for a surprise Clan attack?
That would be my guess.  I also expect invasion against the Combine after an IlClan is declared.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 15 March 2018, 00:21:39
IF they are not or have not consolidated their position, I doubt they can do anything more than be an annoyance, they may take some more worlds on the fringe, but they would start to come into contact with the Dragoons on the DCMS/FS border. Assuming they haven't been moved. While both the FS and DCMS may be busy now, the RA cannot hope to stand up to either by themselves, much less if they come to an agreement and hit from both sides like the reunification wars all over again, only this time for a reason instead of the pretext of one. RA best bet in the last 10 years would be to crank up the Iron Wombs, really crank them up, not 25 or 50 but thousands per bloodname. Build the Tech, Scientist, Labor and Merchant classes up since they cannot figure out how to integrate with the OA to the point they would work in Raven factories. Of course they should have been doing this for the last 50 years, along with having harvest trials for other clans civies in the IS, all but the GBs would be amenable for the right price. Being in a realm of Amish Luddites isn't helping them at all.

Hmm. Thousands of partially combat trained sociopaths without enough trainers who have been told that they are the best thing ever and the world is their oyster.

I can't see how that could go wrong.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 15 March 2018, 11:50:57
Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?

Pulling out all the stops:

1) Warship support to the Wolves or whoever becomes ilClan in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic.  Warships and territory are not mentioned, but there is some technology trade going on between the Wolves and Ravens per the Skinwalker fluff.  The questions are in which direction and in exchange for what?

2) Limited invasion or campaign of raids against the Fedrats to keep them off-balance and less able to assist the Republic during the ilClan's invasion, again in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic, on top of whatever the Ravens can take from the FedRats.

3) Subsequent joint operation with Bears sanctioned by the ilClan to squeeze the Snakes on two fronts, securing some more territory for the Ravens.  After the ilClan is declared, I suspect there are multiple Clan versus House campaigns to bring (or attempt to bring) the Houses to heel under the ilClan.  Bears and Ravens against the Snakes is a logical one given the interstellar geography. (If Alaric is ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan, I imagine he'll want to conquer the FedRats himself given his lineage.)

Going negative:

1) Clan Star Adder and Homeworld friends show up and pound the Ravens into a new Periphery Stone Age.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 15 March 2018, 11:58:26
Kind of curious what the state of RA proto forces are at these days, especially since the Blood Spirits walked off with the entirety of Zeta Galaxy as the Ravens were leaving the Homeworlds. Has something similar to a new Zeta Galaxy been form or are protos units just formed ad hoc these days. Of course, it seems like they produce more or less of the essential designs as they used to (Cecerops, Satyr, Chrysaor, Roc, Gorgon, Minotaur, plus the Hippogriff). Also, anyone used the Arcadia 3088? >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 15 March 2018, 12:11:28
1) Warship support to the Wolves or whoever becomes ilClan in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic.  Warships and territory are not mentioned, but there is some technology trade going on between the Wolves and Ravens per the Skinwalker fluff.  The questions are in which direction and in exchange for what?

Wait, we can cut deals with the ilClan, we don't immediately have to lick their boots?


3) Subsequent joint operation with Bears sanctioned by the ilClan to squeeze the Snakes on two fronts, securing some more territory for the Ravens.  After the ilClan is declared, I suspect there are multiple Clan versus House campaigns to bring (or attempt to bring) the Houses to heel under the ilClan.  Bears and Ravens against the Snakes is a logical one given the interstellar geography. (If Alaric is ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan, I imagine he'll want to conquer the FedRats himself given his lineage.)

Ah, the good old Bear-Raven sandwich. Love it! Plus the Feddies have enough problems of their own right now that I don't think they'd interfere much.


1) Clan Star Adder and Homeworld friends show up and pound the Ravens into a new Periphery Stone Age.

This is exactly what I am afraid of, because if I was an Adder, I would do exactly that: go after the largest Warship fleet first. Of course on the other hand, Quatre Belle and Dante aside, the RA isn't exactly the best base of operations to take over for the effort involved, plus the Ravens learning from their past mistakes would rather resort to scorched earth than allow the Adders to pluck their eggs from the nest so to speak. Still the damage would be done, and there wouldn't be many factions that I'm that interested in playing if the Ravens bite it...  >:(

Although to be honest, my hunch is that remnants of the Society are hanging out in the old Traders Domain, spinward of the RA because of various cryptic comments in WoR plus Ben Rome's original WoR draft. Of course, if that's true, then that's likely to bring down the Adder banhammer even harder
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 15 March 2018, 14:02:31
I kinda hope the Ravens have another 7-8 clusters (and maybe a regiment or two) hidden out in the wastes somewhere.  Then, at least, they'd have the firepower to actually do stuff.  As much as I'd like to see them do a lot of interacting with the setting, with them as-is, they don't seem to have the ability to much more than serve as an addition to some other power.  And at least with joining a Wolf ilclan, they may keep their identity.

Re - ProtoMechs: They seem to be in use in fairly high amounts.  They were used in some of their assaults on Feddie worlds.  I suspect they replace roughly a trinary of 'mechs in each cluster, but there's no specific evidence for this.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 15 March 2018, 20:43:23
Wait, we can cut deals with the ilClan, we don't immediately have to lick their boots?

I think the key is to cut deals with the right candidate for the ilClan before they become the ilClan.

That and those Raven warships are a negotiating trump card in their own right.

Also, maybe the outrages of crazy Malvina and the rabid Falcons will become a unifying force for inter-Clan coordination/cooperation.

Quote
Ah, the good old Bear-Raven sandwich.

The Snakes are the only House sandwiched between two allied Clans, so it seems natural.

Like the FedRats, I suspect the Elsies will become an object of Alaric's attention whether he's ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan.  Maybe the Falcons will assist or maybe they'll be annihilated or exiled first.

The Leaguers or more of their sub-states seem like a natural target for the Foxes or some of their sub-factions.

That leaves the Cappies.  Maybe the Horses get transplanted there, or the Cappies become a rump state after the ilClan takes back the old Terran Hegemony.

I forgot... the wild card that can played in the name of Raven fiat is political machinations.  The FedRats won't fall for it again.  But other Houses or factions might.

Quote
This is exactly what I am afraid of, because if I was an Adder, I would do exactly that: go after the largest Warship fleet first.

I personally hope that the Adders and Homeworlders evolve into something other than Operation Revival Mk. II.  But if they must invade, they should just forgo the OZ route and head directly for Terra through unoccupied systems.  There's no indication this will happen, but the Council of Six finding the Homeworlders sitting on Terra after the Wall comes down would be a great twist.  In such an event, I assume the no-holds-barred Aggressors will employ Society computer viruses to sideline any attacking Raven or other Spheroid Clan warships.

Quote
Although to be honest, my hunch is that remnants of the Society are hanging out in the old Traders Domain, spinward of the RA because of various cryptic comments in WoR plus Ben Rome's original WoR draft.

Woah... you must start a new thread with the relevant references.  Sounds like a conspiracy theory worthy of discussion.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 17 March 2018, 05:13:19
In the fluff about the Levi 3 we learn that the Ravens are apparently building something in the Alliance and their ship building yard is active and working, but on what we don't know. 

I still think that the Leviathan III's fate will be one of two things.

1 - She is destroyed in the yards or shortly after launch by a nuclear device somehow snuck onboard.  Evidence points the device of being Kuritan origin and the Bears go absolutely ballistic and throw troops at the Combine's massively over extended flank.  This helps save the Suns as suddenly ANGRY DOMINION BEARS EVERYWHERE along the Kuritan border and they've not got the forces to slow them down.  (plus they have another Leviathan II still active and in service and there's no counter for her either).

2 - Somehow the folks who will become ilClan win her in a trial of possession that does not escalate too hugely and she leads the assault on the Sol System.

As to what the Ravens are building, I wish we knew :s
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 30 March 2018, 13:56:25
I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.

Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C

Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5

Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 31 March 2018, 03:03:34
I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.

Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C

Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5

Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5

I'd ditch the Pack Hunter for a Baboon 3, Incubus, or Kit Fox H to keep it more Raveny. Otherwise, you've done a pretty good job on keeping the Raven flavor, except for including assault mechs.  ;) Your ground forces actually look... effective! :D

I mean, if it was me, I'd ditch the assault mechs for more heavies and make the entire force move at least 5/8/X, apart from BA, and put the points in even more ASFs, BA and protos. But that's just my play style...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 31 March 2018, 08:51:27
How are you planning to move the Battle Armor around?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 31 March 2018, 08:58:56
How are you planning to move the Battle Armor around?

Carry them on Omnimechs, of course. You *can* do that in Alpha Strike, right? I wouldn't go with more than 5 points of BA anyway.

When playing Clan, I like to run with Medium and Heavy Mechs, dropping the BA off, and then backing away, using the BA as a screen to stay at range, meanwhile Protos supporting the BA. That kind of thing. ASF bomb/strafe as necessary
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 31 March 2018, 09:10:00
Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C

Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5

Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5

I'd run these instead as  Reinforced Star and the rest as a Binary Nova. Yes it includes Aero!
( Do you know anyone else but Raven to use these? My point exactly... )

Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C

Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5

Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5

Leaving you the Extra PV for upgrades or even more units.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 31 March 2018, 11:05:12
I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.

Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C

Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5

Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5

How do you plan on moving the Battle Armor around?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 31 March 2018, 12:27:01
I'd say that's what the Ice Ferret and Stormcrow are for.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 31 March 2018, 12:32:05
Oh, I read that as 5 points.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 31 March 2018, 13:08:39
There is one full star of Elementals and one full star of Salamanders in that list. The only things that can carry them is one full star of OmniMechs. I built this with models I happen to own, but I can borrow/proxy/purchase others. And this is the starting force, each game will be some 3rd of this, and we'll have salvage/repair/purchase rules.

So you think I need some transports, or some more fast Omnis?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 31 March 2018, 13:36:10
There is one full star of Elementals and one full star of Salamanders in that list. The only things that can carry them is one full star of OmniMechs. I built this with models I happen to own, but I can borrow/proxy/purchase others. And this is the starting force, each game will be some 3rd of this, and we'll have salvage/repair/purchase rules.

So you think I need some transports, or some more fast Omnis?

Ravens typically do not use vees in front-line force unless it's Anhurs on an ad hoc basis, but they do use them for second line forces. Every Raven is a fan of Eles air-dropped from Kirghiz C. ;) Maxim C and Bandit C and are good, but are also expensive.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 31 March 2018, 14:01:30
I had not seen the Kirghiz C before. I am very interested in that, thank you.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: (SMD)MadCow on 31 March 2018, 14:58:49
I had not seen the Kirghiz C before. I am very interested in that, thank you.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kirghiz

10 tons of cargo will carry 10 Elementals.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 31 March 2018, 15:08:07
Technically, all omniaero can carry BA... Only a few are legally built to handle " bombs ".

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 31 March 2018, 17:32:10
Looks like the Omni special ability in Alpha Strike isn't applied to aerospace.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 02 April 2018, 03:29:09
Anyone care to critique my 15K BV Proto binary? Note, minus the Chysaors, these are are minis I already own.

Centaur 4   x10
Chysaor 2   x10
Roc 1         x10
Gorgon 3    x10
Minotaur 3  x10

I love Protos about as much as TankDriver loves vees :D

note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 02 April 2018, 11:25:05
Do you have long range backup for them, or is this the whole force? You're fast and numerous, but not knowing what size map you'll be playing on, an opponent with high mobility and long range could potentially stay outside of your effective range and pick things off. Not that 10 LRM-12s are anything to sneeze at.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 02 April 2018, 12:16:31
Wait a minute,,,I thought C’s carries 5 tons (been awhile) but gotta love Disco Elly’s in a Halo drop.Ahhhhh good times
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 02 April 2018, 15:06:37
Alternate plan:

Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C


Elemental BA (Flamer) x5

Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x2
Kirghiz C x3
Vandal D x5
Sulla Prime x5

Feels more appropriate to start with another Aerospace Star if I can't fit a full second Triad than to do another Nova and pad the extra with Protos. Way weaker ground force, which might be bad in the scenarios I'm writing, but if I can clear the path with strafing fire/bombs and air drop the elementals in my opponent's back line that might keep them busy enough for my one star to secure objectives.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 April 2018, 11:59:44
Do you have long range backup for them, or is this the whole force? You're fast and numerous, but not knowing what size map you'll be playing on, an opponent with high mobility and long range could potentially stay outside of your effective range and pick things off. Not that 10 LRM-12s are anything to sneeze at.

It's meant to be played on a smallish built up map, like a city or a forest. I never use Protos without cover...  8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 03 April 2018, 19:43:49
I think your idea of a Triad is a bit off,I’ve used em for what they are .The 5points of mechs and el’s add up but your ASF add up to 20(or 20 points by your math)...I use a full Cluster of triads (5 by WM) but I’m Raven and that’s my style and their “Very” restrictive on options
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 04 April 2018, 02:41:01
Probably up to the Jihad Era, pretty much all* Raven Clusters were composed thusly:

Front Line: 45 Mechs, 75 Elementals, 30 Fighters
Second Line: 25 Mechs 125 Elementals 50 Fighters
Solahma: 50 Vehicles 125 Elementals 50 Fighters
Zeta Galaxy Chasseurs: Literally whatever you want, as long as it's mostly Protos
 
*(with the exception of the Wing Clusters and 1st Raven Phalanx)

Of course, it's your game, and paying Clan means that you can bid down. You don't *have* to stick to the Triad structure if it seems like a hindrance to you. It's more of a fluff guideline.

Furthermore, at least from what I've read from sources in 3145, Ravens are back to fielding stuff in a kind of willy nilly fashion post-WoR given their less than orderly exit from the Homeworlds.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 05 April 2018, 07:58:27
Ahhh yeah,been playing Raven for 20yrs(holy,,,!).Lacking in all types of ground units your forced to play from that angle,we are not Ghost Bears.We will “glass the surface” if needed
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Terrordactyl on 05 April 2018, 18:46:51
Isn’t it 10 fighters to the star? So I have one Triad + 1 star of fighters.

And that breakdown is really helpful, Crow, thank you.

Only half of my group voted for a narrative in this campaign, so I’m just being fluffy for my own sake. I decided we’re fighting over star league factories on Otisberg, but other than I’ll blog some narrative reports it’ll stop there.  I’m doing Gamma Galaxy during the Civil War so front or second line is a little fuzzy and we probably have no business being involved in the first place.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 09 May 2018, 01:40:24
Just wanted to jump on here with something I thought the Unkindness might find interesting. In the TTS: Wynn's Roost the planetary government has apparently considered several ideas for alternate trials should any clan, or the Ravens in particular turn an eye towards them. One is apparently a dance off. Should someone tell them about the disco elementals?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 14 May 2018, 14:22:11
note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
Have you tried swarming people with Ghost Targets using the Roc 4 and low Gunnery?  8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 19 July 2018, 00:48:00
Should someone tell them about the disco elementals?

No one tells you about Disco Elementals; you have to experience them for yourself...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 19 July 2018, 01:34:08
Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 19 July 2018, 07:46:51
Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?

If the Bears take it, then the Ravens are invited along as their new aerospace/navy.

If anyone else takes it, the Ravens will continue on as they are.

Either way leaves ample opportunity to smash some FedRats.  >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 19 July 2018, 11:05:30
Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?
Likely offering a ride to Terra for a sweet Deal.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 19 July 2018, 15:43:43
My suspicion is that the Wolves will take Terra and declare themselves IlClan.  The other clans will accept the Wolves as "Supreme Allied Commanders" like Eisenhower was in WW2.  The Bears and Ravens will then be directed to smack the Combine into submission.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 19 July 2018, 21:05:37
My suspicion is that the Wolves will take Terra and declare themselves IlClan.  The other clans will accept the Wolves as "Supreme Allied Commanders" like Eisenhower was in WW2.  The Bears and Ravens will then be directed to smack the Combine into submission.
Better the Wolves than the Falcons. The Bears certainly have the military to do it, but I don't think they have the interest given Dalia Bekker's behavior during the Blackout.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 20 July 2018, 00:47:23
If the Bears take it, then the Ravens are invited along as their new aerospace/navy.

If anyone else takes it, the Ravens will continue on as they are.

Either way leaves ample opportunity to smash some FedRats.  >:D
or Dracs. The Ravens have shown themselves to be fully capable of betrayal
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 20 July 2018, 01:15:18
I would be deeply surprised if the ilClan was any other than Clan Wolf. The Falcons are simply too unstable. The Bears seem to be content to remain in their OZ.

Let us all pray that the Star Adders never return...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 20 July 2018, 12:44:39
or Dracs. The Ravens have shown themselves to be fully capable of betrayal
Well, there is that bit of bad blood with the Dracs. Remember, it was the Raven's retaliation that got them Abjured.

Honestly, though, I'm more interested in how ilClan will affect the Escorpión Imperio.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 21 July 2018, 12:32:21
note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
Even if he's not using C3, Roc 4s can ruin someone's day if you are running with Ghost Target rules. Since protos don't have Pilot skills, they use their Gunnery on the roll.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 23 July 2018, 16:41:06
Let us all pray that the Star Adders never return...

Shoots at Crow when he hears the calling of Star Adders.... " Where's they at? Let go of me, gotta get sum Adderskins for the collection! "

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 04 August 2018, 14:32:13
Well, zero mention of us in Shattered Dawn.  I didn't expect a huge amount of Raven goodness happening, but I was hoping for something.  sigh...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 04 August 2018, 14:40:00
I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 04 August 2018, 14:49:45
I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.


Sounds about right for the Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 04 August 2018, 17:33:25
Well, zero mention of us in Shattered Dawn.  I didn't expect a huge amount of Raven goodness happening, but I was hoping for something.  sigh...

Hey, it means our faction wasn't beaten with the fiat stick and killed off. Be grateful!  ;D

I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.

Exactly. Let the groundpounders beat each other into a pulp, let them dance their merry dance, while we warp in at the pirate point to call down orbital strikes finishing off the "victors."

Shoots at Crow when he hears the calling of Star Adders.... " Where's they at? Let go of me, gotta get sum Adderskins for the collection! "

The Return of the Adder is the only thing I fear. It will not be pretty.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Easy on 16 August 2018, 21:53:15
Oops. I strangely mind-blanked and completely forgot about this thread and started a Raven Alliance topic here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 August 2018, 07:22:35
Oops. I strangely mind-blanked and completely forgot about this thread and started a Raven Alliance topic here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0)

For shame, lumping the Ravens into the periphery. Tsk.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Easy on 17 August 2018, 18:48:10
For shame, lumping the Ravens into the periphery. Tsk.


Rocket ships, laser guns and anthropology. How hard could it be?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 28 September 2018, 06:27:30
No Raven fan service in Shattered Fortress  >:(
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 September 2018, 14:44:21
Hopefully something cool in ilClan.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 28 September 2018, 15:29:03
I would prefer whatever happens in the sequel to be something more than the Ravens become Wolf lap-birds.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 28 September 2018, 16:33:27
Oh, me too. But it'd be fun to corrupt the Wolves as their 'allies'  ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 29 September 2018, 15:13:40
Alaric may be hard to corrupt; He's already half-way there. :D
Hmmm...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: St.George on 30 September 2018, 13:09:24
That means the job is halfway done 🧐
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Meow Liao on 02 October 2018, 17:32:12
If we survive as part of some grand ilClan led government, I see a long line of saKhans of the Navy, Grand Admirals, or whatever, from House McKenna.  Even the ilClan knows we rule the stars.

If there is a unified military, we should also rule the skies with our Outworlds brothers.  It should be a good competition between the two. 

So much ortillery.   :drool:  So many planes.   :drool: 

IlClan, just let the Ravens take care of your big, complicated space toys.  You go play with your mechs.  If you need us, we'll be up here in space.  Tracking your every move...

Meow Liao
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 02 October 2018, 19:53:31
The Ghost Bears support this.... as long as you let us use you as taxis to air drop our Elementals.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jklantern on 02 October 2018, 22:54:47
The Ghost Bears support this.... as long as you let us use you as taxis to air drop our Elementals.
I mean, I really assumed this was an understood part of the relationship.  The Ravens have always been willing to be the designated driver for the Bears.  Because sometimes the Ravens need a really, really big angry guy to punch people.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 02 October 2018, 23:05:12
And of course when our paired Leviathan III's are up and running we have to take them on a test drive together.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 02 October 2018, 23:26:59
I mean, I really assumed this was an understood part of the relationship.  The Ravens have always been willing to be the designated driver for the Bears.  Because sometimes the Ravens need a really, really big angry guy to punch people.

 So clan Uber? It sounds like you guys treat us like John Wick. Would explain how uncle chandy got us into the jihad...they killed our dog.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 20 December 2018, 07:59:57
Raven roll call. State your vat name and phenotype

Seraphim Crow

Protomech warrior
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sjhernan3060 on 20 December 2018, 10:47:37
Are the ravens building warships post 3080s? Or are they just maintaining what they still have?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 20 December 2018, 11:01:32
Are the ravens building warships post 3080s? Or are they just maintaining what they still have?

Post-Jihad they're going the other direction: shrinking the fleet by putting WarShips in mothballs.

But in-universe rumor as of the Dark Age is that they're starting to press some hulls back into service.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 December 2018, 16:39:55
The write-up for the Leviathan III suggests they may be building warships again.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 20 December 2018, 18:51:01
Leviathan III?  A Quartre Belle production?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 21 December 2018, 16:37:31
The Lev III's are believed to be in production at Alshain.  The entry hinted at Raven involvement.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 21 December 2018, 22:00:20
Makes complete sense, the conversation must have been along the lines of," hey ravens, wanna make a scary warship?" To which they replied," does a Ghost Bear defecate in the woods?"
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 22 December 2018, 14:33:52
They do in Horse Country...

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 22 December 2018, 23:41:09
Trees thus woods struggle to grow in tundra.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Doy on 02 January 2019, 23:47:15
i still think the Raven Alliance should be the first one who made a LAOM ( Land Air OmniMech) called Snow Raven III a totem Mech who can Support the Ground Units and even the Fleet.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 03 January 2019, 00:14:05
I'd want some changes in LAMs to make them less... crap at everything.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Doy on 03 January 2019, 16:37:50
Why ?

LAM are cool and it should give more as a few
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 January 2019, 17:35:55
LAMs are not that hot when you think about how ubiquitous LBX and HAG flak is in the era 3075+. One crit and you can't transform out of Airmech mode. That kind if bites. Also LAMs are so slow in the air that really only do well when there are no other ASFs around that might get on their tail. Someone did a Snow Raven LAM back on Solaris7 way back when. I wish that I could find it.

Glider Protomechs however, I think show promise.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 03 January 2019, 19:15:56
i still think the Raven Alliance should be the first one who made a LAOM ( Land Air OmniMech) called Snow Raven III a totem Mech who can Support the Ground Units and even the Fleet.

FWIW, under the construction rules, omnimech/omnifighter technology in incompatible with LAMs.  (But maybe for a Boondoggles TRO...)

LAMs also cannot benefit from the weight savings of XL engines, endo-steel structure, or ferro- armors under the construction rules.  So while they get some bump from Clan freezers and lightweight weapons, LAMs will still be inferior to Clantech mechs and fighters in their respective environments.

Thanks to the Blakies and Manei Domini, we've actually seen canon Clantech LAMs.  Look up the Pwwka, Waneta, and Yurei.  (They're on Sarna.)  While I'm sure those designs can be improved, they're nothing to write home about, either.

I think a better idea would be a Raven version of the Horse QuadVees.  Raven aerospace fighters that can convert to hardened WIGEs or hovertanks like Horse quad mechs that can convert to hardened tracked or wheeled tanks.   I have not explored the concept, so no guarantees it could be made to work with a reasonable ruleset.  But "AeroVees" at least have some precedent in the QuadVee, and probably make some sense in-universe for planetary landings.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elmoth on 04 January 2019, 03:12:37
Now I need to stage a battle between Horse Autobots and LIAM decepticons
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Doy on 04 January 2019, 11:00:21
Natasha i break this rules for an LAOM (<- OmniMech) also a new Experimental Clan Version
Why SRV-3 because SRV-1 was to little for the weapons and SRV-2 have problems with transforming and so stuck in fighter mode ...
I thinks this rules are made because the unseen Problem and so i vote for bring them back and the Construcktion Rules are for I.S. LAM

But i speak from an experimental new type of Mech
(I use the LAM Rules for an Example and use Disign Quirks for to made it. The Clan would use some of this Technologies becaus is normal for them!)

I love transformation stuff and LAM/FLUM and QuadVee are great ideas who should not gone (is just my view)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 25 March 2019, 23:47:24
Are the Raven fans still active?  I miss my spacefaring friends in the Outworlds. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Xeno426 on 26 March 2019, 00:32:19
With the new DMC game out, I'm suddenly reminded that one of the primary manufacturing planets that the Ravens now have is Dante...
Anyone want to create a mech called Sparda?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 26 March 2019, 07:19:12
Are the Raven fans still active?  I miss my spacefaring friends in the Outworlds.

I am.

Sadly we have no new Raveny info. We got left out of Shattered Fortress. No mention at all  :'(
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elmoth on 26 March 2019, 07:25:36
hello there,

Any specific reasons why the Ravens are not expanding outwards? there are a lot of planets in the Wastes that could do well and contribute to the collective with some Outworlds re-colonialism. This has puzled me for a while.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 26 March 2019, 07:45:24
Nothing that we've been given officially. My guess would be that the Ravens lost so much population during the move to the Outworlds, which is itself very low population, it has been a rebuilding game since then.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 26 March 2019, 07:46:01
I am.

Sadly we have no new Raveny info. We got left out of Shattered Fortress. No mention at all  :'(

 That's because you always save the best for last!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 26 March 2019, 07:50:14
That's because you always save the best for last!

We can but hope.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 26 March 2019, 08:04:15
really I think if the Raven's do anything it will be to punch the Combine in the back of the head at a very opportune moment for the Ravens, otherwise its a sit back and wait case and when INSERT CLAN NAME HERE goes "We are the IlClan!" the Raven's reaction will basically be.


(https://i.imgur.com/sghf4.gif)

Along with some diplomatic platitudes and other niceities and that's about it.  There's simply too much distance between them and the IlClan for them to be able to do anything if they didn't bend the knee and the IlClan is probably going to have trouble enough from ALL its borders to be able to punish the Ravens for any slight.  Its the same kind of situation with the Dominion, whereas the Ravens have distance and 3/4 of the Combine in the way.  The Dominion has its military and industrial strength largely unafffected by all the goings on and they can politely ignore the ilClan jumping up and down or making demands.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elmoth on 26 March 2019, 08:08:04
Its the same kind of situation with the Dominion, whereas the Ravens have distance and 3/4 of the Combine in the way.  The Dominion has its military and industrial strength largely unafffected by all the goings on and they can politely ignore the ilClan jumping up and down or making demands.

How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 26 March 2019, 08:31:04
How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4w5sqP13AsU/SKR7nRgIWmI/AAAAAAAAC2c/2_glqAOp5dc/s320/polar+bear+smile.jpg)

*laughs in Ghost Bear*

But yeah the Bear's have had a lot going their way even if their stuff of late has basically been boring since the Nova Cats went away. The poor cats they were not just holding the idiot ball but had ingested it.  There's NO reason other than idiocy that they would constantly walk up to the Bears/Dominion, slap their beer out of their hand, spit on their chest and then go "You want some!?" and then act like the Injured party who was the victim of an injustice when they got their teeth kicked in.  Only to go back once out of hospital to do it again! :S

But regarding the Ravens, they've got a lot of growing to do, they also have a LOT of worlds to exploit and considering that they went into territory occupied by the Space Amish with all they had on their backs, its taken a lot of time to build up, but the Raven's have not had much in the way of disasters happen to them since the Dark Ages IIRC and are quite happy up in their corner of the Inner Sphere.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 26 March 2019, 15:17:00
The consensus on the forums is that the IlClan is going to go on a rip roaring rampage of revenge through the Great Houses.

Failure to bend the knee will paint a target on you. Clans have long memories and neither the Alliance or Dominion is as strong as a Great House. Just saying...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 26 March 2019, 15:23:27
hello there,

Any specific reasons why the Ravens are not expanding outwards? there are a lot of planets in the Wastes that could do well and contribute to the collective with some Outworlds re-colonialism. This has puzled me for a while.
Who says they haven't?  The Ravens are known for subterfuge.  They may have five galaxies, a naval star of Leviathans, and millions of citizens waiting in secret.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Vition2 on 26 March 2019, 16:05:11
Who says they haven't?  The Ravens are known for subterfuge.  They may have five galaxies, a naval star of Leviathans, and millions of citizens waiting in secret.

Heh, even I don't think they have that.  Though it would be in character for them to have a secret base somewhere in the Wastes.  But I couldn't put more than 2 galaxies, and a star of mixed-sized warships (and I super, super doubt they have any more real warships at all, those things were just tracked too well - a few stars of light-Castrum pocket warships on the other hand...).

Mothballing Quatre Belle in the 3090s could have been a cover for moving a portion of the yards.  And their frequent forays into the Wastes with their warships could easily have involved moving supplies and personnel. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 26 March 2019, 16:31:40
The consensus on the forums is that the IlClan is going to go on a rip roaring rampage of revenge through the Great Houses.

Failure to bend the knee will paint a target on you. Clans have long memories and neither the Alliance or Dominion is as strong as a Great House. Just saying...

This I don't actually doubt.  But the problem is that's going to take time.  As far as we know there's going to be 3 players in the final fight

Falcons
Republic
Wolves

and again there could be more, the Bears might turn up unannounced etc, but at the end of the book the fleet jumping in MUST be the Falcons, Malvina's insane and she simply can't let the Wolves get the big shiny prize.  Of the other Clans that we know of the Horses don't have the military strength to pull off a move like throw everything at Terra and the Falcons and Lyrans and Republic are still in the way.  The Ravens are in the same boat but even further separated by distance and at the short end of the military stick, and the Bear/Dominion simply does not seem interested and is happily gobbling up Kuritan space with no real movement towards the Republic.  That leaves us with two, the Falcons who are lead by an Omnicidal maniac and the Wolves who are lead by a guy who's name has some serious historical conqueror connotations to it.

Who ever wins out of the Falcons and Wolves (At a guess) they are going to be in no fit state right away to do much other than plant flags everwhere and get REALLY drunk in the party afterwards.  Their Toumans are gonna be beat up, even if, again, assuming here, the surviving RAF forces either join them or stand down, and don't keep fighting in other systems etc.  And the other Houses in the region then don't go "Oh naw you didn't!" And attack on their own.  Assuming that the IlClan can hold onto what its captured and secured Terra and the surrounding systems as well as preventing uprisings etc and rebuilding factories and so on and so on. THEN they could think about going on an extremely vigerous walk to Marik space or Lyran space . 
Just securing Terra and all the other stuff could take anywhere up to a decade before the populace stop trying to leave landmines in your beds for all we know. 

Sure after 10, 20 years after the IlClan has actually secured its holdings and expanded, then the more outlying Clans IE the Bears and Ravens and the scattered Sharkfoxes might very well bend the knee and all hail the ilClan.  But whilst the IlClanship is a win condition for the Clans, and back during REVIVAL it MIGHT have been an instant win condition (assuming the Clans political rivalries and inter clan rivalries don't make them turn Terra into a Mech Moshpit).  Nowdays, over a hundred years later, the instant win condition is long gone, and really I don't think anyone really knows what to do or to expect when a Clan becomes ilClan.  It's now become a case of

"Now what?"
"I do not know, no one ever thought we would get this far."

And obviously i'm just guessing here, I probably am utterly wrong, and its why I'm counting the days until the 2nd book :D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 26 March 2019, 16:55:32
Quote from XTRO RotS 3, page 17:
"ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle."
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 27 March 2019, 01:19:14
Quote from XTRO RotS 3, page 17:
"ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle."

Oh yes! I forgot that :D  So yeah the Ravens are doing -something- we just dunno what that is. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 27 March 2019, 11:15:34
It could be a Horse-drawn Buggy IIC manufacturing facility.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elmoth on 27 March 2019, 12:26:16
It could be a Horse-drawn Buggy IIC manufacturing facility.
With capital scale weapons!
Aw, wouldn't THAt be awesome!  :D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Frogfoot on 27 March 2019, 14:29:10
How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.
Losing half of your Touman in a berserker's wild goose chase after the Not-Named is hardly perfect.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sjhernan3060 on 11 April 2019, 11:18:55
Hello ravens,

     After re reading FM crusader clans ( man those books were great!) in the blood spirit section their snow raven ilchi or ambassador wants to pursue a mutually beneficial alliance or partnership but is hazy on the details.

Now before and after the Burrock absorption the ravens and spirits assisted one another but if the spirits had not wasted so much of their strength by jumping into the absorption and had instead  went to the ravens to plot out how to contain or weaken the adders who would have been flush with new strength what would that look like?

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 12 April 2019, 15:20:28
Raven pragmatism would have prevented them from antagonizing the Adders. Maybe, they could have gotten the Spirits to take a step back.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sjhernan3060 on 12 April 2019, 16:54:12
Raven pragmatism would have prevented them from antagonizing the Adders. Maybe, they could have gotten the Spirits to take a step back.

But raven pragmatism ( which I dig) also made them realize what a threat the adders would become
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 13 April 2019, 06:05:36
Which would be an even greater incentive to ally with the Adders.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 29 May 2019, 22:43:47
Has anyone ever used Protomechs in space battles? What's been good, and what has been better on the ground (like Hippogriffs in their fluff.) I'm honestly a little surprised there aren't any dedicated space Protomechs made, although if the Hippo ever gets a variant a space version would make sense.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kallor on 08 June 2019, 00:16:26
I have always been unclear on why, a clan that focuses on aerofighters and can usually gain air superiority, would focus their ground units to combat enemy air support? An example of this is the Kodiak 3 with its double LBX-20s, "tied to the Ravens innate aerospace bias"

I could understand the Vipers or the Coyotes employing this since they fight aerospace dominate clans.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: AlphaMirage on 08 June 2019, 08:56:50
I have always been unclear on why, a clan that focuses on aerofighters and can usually gain air superiority, would focus their ground units to combat enemy air support? An example of this is the Kodiak 3 with its double LBX-20s, "tied to the Ravens innate aerospace bias"

I could understand the Vipers or the Coyotes employing this since they fight aerospace dominate clans.

Internal Trials maybe.  Those are more likely than Trials with other clans
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kallor on 08 June 2019, 19:30:40
The simplest explanation is usually right. Thank you.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maelwys on 08 June 2019, 20:20:32
There could also be the thought of "We know how damaging it can be if ground forces are ever caught without aerospace cover, so just in case the aerospace fighters are off doing something else, here's an idea to make sure the ground forces aren't completely screwed."
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 08 June 2019, 20:34:04
Maybe they just like making cockpit salsa?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kallor on 08 June 2019, 22:31:59
Haha thanks Foxx!

That does make sense, just seems a low chance given the sheer numbers the Ravens have.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 09 June 2019, 14:20:25
Another good reason could be they can only produce so much, so they trade/buy from the Ghost Bears.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 09 June 2019, 15:51:51
There could also be the thought of "We know how damaging it can be if ground forces are ever caught without aerospace cover, so just in case the aerospace fighters are off doing something else, here's an idea to make sure the ground forces aren't completely screwed."
I like this explanation equally well. Also, leaving anti-air capability with your ground forces frees up Raven fighters to strafe enemy formations.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kallor on 10 June 2019, 14:30:14
On the surface that sounds reasonable, except that Raven second line clusters are made up of Triads and that gives the average cluster 50 fighters as opposed to 30. The only time they would lose air superiority is if they fought one of their own Stoops clusters or a Cobra equivalent. (I cant remember their specific name) Where they have 2 Trinary of fighter. Even if you give the Raven second line cluster an R-Team, that is still 4 Triads: 40 fighters.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 11 June 2019, 13:49:30

On the very last page of TRO3150, there’s an NTNU entry for the Ravens’ new Gorgon 5 Protomech variant.  Supposedly has Streaks (LRM or SRM unspecified) and MagClamps (for mechanization).

I don’t think the RS has been printed, but thought I’d doublecheck here and make sure no one has the official stats.

Any help much appreciated.  Thx.

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 11 June 2019, 14:11:51
On the surface that sounds reasonable, except that Raven second line clusters are made up of Triads and that gives the average cluster 50 fighters as opposed to 30. The only time they would lose air superiority is if they fought one of their own Stoops clusters or a Cobra equivalent. (I cant remember their specific name) Where they have 2 Trinary of fighter. Even if you give the Raven second line cluster an R-Team, that is still 4 Triads: 40 fighters.
Bear in mind that the Ravens most frequent opponent is the DCMS, which is notable for being aerospace-heavy.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crackerb0x on 28 June 2019, 16:06:35
Ho, Snow Raven.

As my current green-feathered Khan to be a frothing lunatic that is attempting to depopulate every other planet she conquers and I'm wanting to use protos while staying relevant in the timeline, I've been considering trying to become a bondsman of the Raven Alliance.
 
Are there really only three galaxies left to the RA Touman (Alpha, Gamma, and Delta)? Are there other provisional or perhaps not as well known units that are part of the military?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 30 June 2019, 15:17:32
Don’t forget Beta galaxy. All of this assumes the Ravens have been truthful about their troop strength. Remember all the troops the WOB pulled out of hiding at the dawn of the Jihad.  >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Elcor05 on 30 June 2019, 21:48:58
There's also the AMC Militia. Lots of clan cast offs for ASF, and other stuff.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 05 July 2019, 14:36:49
On the very last page of TRO3150, there’s an NTNU entry for the Ravens’ new Gorgon 5 Protomech variant.  Supposedly has Streaks (LRM or SRM unspecified) and MagClamps (for mechanization).

I don’t think the RS has been printed, but thought I’d doublecheck here and make sure no one has the official stats.

Any help much appreciated.  Thx.

Well given that the base Gorgon has about 3.5 tons of space, minus 500kg for the mag clamp, the Gorgon 5 could conceivably mount a Streak LRM 6(12) or a Streak SRM 5(10), assuming minimal armor changes. It would necessarily have to mount the missiles in a main gun, they weigh more than 2000kg
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 21 July 2019, 22:16:30
Hail, Snow Raven thread.  I've decided to paint all of my Kickstarer rewards as Clan Snow Raven's Epsilon Galaxy.  I'm currently in as a Bloodnamed, but may upgrade to Star Colonel after GenCon.  Does the following sound at all like a Snow Raven-y Cluster?

Dire Wolf, Executioner, Gladiator, Warhawk, Nova Cat (all slower than 5/8 base)

Timber Wolf, Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, Gargoyle (all 5/8)

Adder, Stormcrow, Kit Fox, Cougar, Battle Cobra (no jump, Medium or lower, 6/9 except the Cougar)

Grendel, Mist Lynx, Viper, Black Lanner, Shadow Cat (FAST!  6/9 with MASC or faster)

Fire Falcon, Arctic Cheetah, Ice Ferret, Fire Moth, Hellion (VERY FAST! 8/12 or faster)

5 Points Elementals

2 Points Elementals; 3 points Protomechs

5 points Protomechs

6x Visigoth, 2x Turk, 2x Sabutai

I know the Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, and Cougar are primarily Falcon designs, but the rest of the Star packs have equally not-Raven 'Mechs (Kodiak, Turkina) or have non-Omnis in them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 22 July 2019, 00:47:20

Dire Wolf
Gargoyle
Hellbringer
Grendel
Battle Cobra
Hellion

These depend on the era.  They are on the Raven MUL during the Clan Invasion.  They’re gone by the Dark Age.

Quote
Arctic Cheetah
Fire Falcon
Cougar
Ice Ferret
Black Lanner

Viper

These never appear on a Raven MUL.  Too Falcony or Wolfish or Hellionic, apparently.  I’d make an exception for the Viper as it’s an allied Bear design and appears on the Clan General MULs during the Clan Invasion era.

Quote
Executioner, Gladiator,

These are the same thing.  It’s a Bear design and the Ravens are their allies.  Present thru the Dark Age and it’s the Ravens’ heaviest Omni by then.

Quote
Stormcrow,

This is the classic Raven Omni, as they refined the original Horse design after Tokasha and apparently still produce it in the Dark Age.  It’s arguably the second best Clan Omni.  I’d double and triple down on it and make it the core of a frontline Raven unit.

Quote
Kodiak

The Ravens have their own variant, the Kodiak 3, apparently from trade with the allied Bears.

The uniquely Raven mechs are the Dark Crow, Omen, and Deimos.  If playing a later era, you could pick these up for flavor.  The Deimos in particular has some pretty nasty configs.

If I didn’t mention it above, then the mechs from your post (Timberwolf, Summoner, Mad Dog, Adder, Mist Lynx, Shadow Cat, etc.) are present in the Raven MULs during both the Clan Invasion and Dark Age.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 22 July 2019, 05:29:55
Scotty,
Be advised that Epsilon never made it out of the clan homeworlds.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 22 July 2019, 08:49:20
That's fine. I'm not about to leave them on a shelf just because such and such fight never "really" happened.

I'm not sure what I missed when I typed Gladiator; each Omni here is from the Clan Box and Star packs.  I will not be augmenting it with metal.  Ultimately I think I'm okay with 80% on the MUL.  I like the scheme too much. :D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 23 July 2019, 06:15:28
That's a pretty high fraction of omnis for a second line galaxy, but then again, Ravens have a run a high percentage of Omnis anyway.

Honestly, I would double or triple up on the following: Kit Fox, Nova, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Timberwolf as these are probably the most common Raven omnis. Raven ground forces have a "generic but faster than 5/8" flavor dominated by 3050 designs. If it's a second line cluster I would sprinkle in a bit more Shadowhawk IIC, Hunchback IIC, Clint IIC, Warhammer IIC

Barring Zeta Galaxy (dearly departed  :'( ) Protomech formations seem to be entirely adhoc, so don't count them towards the typical Triad, instead they're tacked on extra
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 20 September 2019, 07:33:31
What would everyone's ideal naval star consist of?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 20 September 2019, 17:52:12
Nightlord, McKenna or Texas, Potempkin, and probably a pair of Lola-III or Aegis’s to round it out.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 21 September 2019, 16:28:36
Four Leviathans and a Potempkin. :D
Granted, it would be a bit expensive.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 21 September 2019, 16:45:32
Three Yorks and a Conqueror with a Liberator backup.

Allows me to transport 14 droppers and a @#%$#!!! full of ASF to a combat zone and escape out if it gets to heavy!

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 21 September 2019, 18:46:43
How could I forget the Leviathan! *head desk repeatedly*

Leviathan III, Nightlord, Potempkin, and at that point McKenna and Texas. I’d probably still want to add a couple of Lola III’s or Aegis’s for support but if not the Droppers and ASF would serve: you have enough of them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 22 September 2019, 13:43:25
Four Leviathans and a Potempkin. :D
Granted, it would be a bit expensive.

 I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 22 September 2019, 14:38:51
I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.

A perfect reason for the Clans to develop Soylent Green ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 22 September 2019, 15:14:58
I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
Three Yorks and a Conqueror with a Liberator backup.

Allows me to transport 14 droppers and a @#%$#!!! full of ASF to a combat zone and escape out if it gets to heavy!

TT

I forgot I even have a full Cluster of Clan Space Marines... all 1,200 + Troopers! With Elemental BA support...

( 20 Troopers per Point x 5 per Star x 3 per Trinary x 4ish... ( average is 3-5 Trinaries per Cluster ))

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 22 September 2019, 15:16:37
I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
We all know that the only things those pilots will need is booze and men/women of negotiable virtue. Food is secondary.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 22 September 2019, 15:18:50
Naw, that's an Impero thing... booze. But they call it a Necrosa!, it's highly addicting from what I've heard, quiaff?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 22 September 2019, 21:17:19
A perfect reason for the Clans to develop Soylent Green ;)

 Did you get a bloodname? No!! Then your giftake is going to a different program!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 24 September 2019, 16:47:58
Odyssey, Aesir, Vanir, 2 x Nagasawa. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Doy on 31 October 2019, 08:08:56
I am back after a long time break!

But from time to time i read you guys   ^-^

I think the Raven still establishing them self in the Politic of the Outworld Alliance and rebuild there toumand.
Look how many Ships they lost by moving from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere.

The Ghost Bears and Ravens are sure have some Battles together (like in old days)
I really welcome the Merging of this 2 Factions the Outworld Alliance fit very well for the Revans
I hope to see in futre more moving for the Raven Alliance by expanding upward and recolonise the starsystems  like they had in 3145 MAP
a litte more closer Stand to the Gost Bears would be nice

And like i said before they need the first CLAM (CLAN Land-Air-Mechs)
I think the Jade Falcon can use some LAM too becaus of the Birdtotem but the Raven sould be sure the 1st one.
The Raven way of thinking and the Raven strategie for Aircrafts and not well use of Mechs made LAMs/LAOM to first choice.
And in my thinkings i made no stop by CLAMs i go far to LAOM (Land-Air-Omni-Mechs)

I question will be threre a future alliance with Davion or not ?!? what you guys think ?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 31 October 2019, 15:34:38
TPTB will do what they want, which is normally unpredictable.  My guess is that they will want to keep the sides relatively balanced, which was why the Federated Commonwealth had to die.  Knowing if the Ravens and Suns will ally will depend on what other alliances materialized.  Whatever happens, the Ravens will try to play both sides.
As for LAMS, when the Nova Cats captured the last LAM factory, they methodically destroyed everything because it offended their sense of caste (mechwarrior vs. pilot).  Even if the Ravens weren't offended in this manner, they would calculate that other clans would be and realize that they were pinning a target on their back.  For this reason, they will not attempt to revive LAMs.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 31 October 2019, 16:18:28

One could say that there is a subconscious desire for LAMs in certain Clans, but being expressed through designs with Partial Wings and Improved Jump Jets.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maelwys on 31 October 2019, 21:56:02
TPTB will do what they want, which is normally unpredictable.  My guess is that they will want to keep the sides relatively balanced, which was why the Federated Commonwealth had to die.  Knowing if the Ravens and Suns will ally will depend on what other alliances materialized.  Whatever happens, the Ravens will try to play both sides.
As for LAMS, when the Nova Cats captured the last LAM factory, they methodically destroyed everything because it offended their sense of caste (mechwarrior vs. pilot).  Even if the Ravens weren't offended in this manner, they would calculate that other clans would be and realize that they were pinning a target on their back.  For this reason, they will not attempt to revive LAMs.

On the other hand, that was then, this is now. We've got a mixture of Aerospace and Ground combat with ProtoMechs (aerospace pilots, ground combat), and there's the TankWarrior, which is a mixture of Elemental and MW, then there's the QuadVee, and the mixture of MW and Elemental with the Neural Interface System.

What will probably keep LAMs from appearing in the Clans is the fact that the new rules pretty much crippled any chance for the LAMs to actually be useful...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 01 November 2019, 15:14:25
The Ravens watched the Wolverines get annihilated for innovating.  I doubt they will want to draw attention to themselves for a technology that doesn't provide the greatest results to begin with.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maelwys on 01 November 2019, 18:56:21
They watched the Wolverines get annihilated for innovating (supposedly) 300 years ago. Since then you have Phenotypes, Armored Infantry, ProtoMechs,  Clantech in general, Omnitech...you've got an invasion of the Inner Sphere, a Wars of Reaving, you've got two (in the IS atleast) Clans that have integrated into Inner Sphere factions to one degree or another.

"We're going to produce a LAM" is hardly going to garner a twitch of reaction.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 01 November 2019, 19:09:16
One must remember that the Falcons, the most traditional of the Clans, were experimenting with LAMs on Huntress during the Twilight of the Clans novel series. It should be no surprise if the Ravens, or even the Cobras, experimented with the tech, especially if it were early in the history of the clans.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 01 November 2019, 23:30:44
Right.  What if the Nova Cats' reaction of torching the LAM facility was peculiar to only their Clan, and was not a reflection of the Clans attitude as a whole?  LAMs and the Ravens seem to go hand in hand.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 02 November 2019, 00:51:49
Plus you could have the Amish part of your touman use it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 02 November 2019, 12:33:10
Question for you Raven fans:

As of 3060, Aeroyard Gargain is owned and operated by Clan Snow Raven.

And in 3088 Clan Stone Lion owns it (100%).

Would it still be around in 3088, the production lines?

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bearclaw (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bearclaw)

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 November 2019, 16:19:46
I don't see specific mention of that facility being destroyed.

And there is reference to facilities being repaired.

So... maybe?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 02 November 2019, 16:27:09
If the Ravens boxed it up during the departure from the homeworlds, the important part of the yards may have been by the Vipers.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Onion2112 on 02 November 2019, 23:58:29
What is the consensus about the possibility of Raven Triads in the Dark Age replacing their ASFs with VTOLs (ie the Gossamer).
Perhaps one of the Triads in a Cluster could be converted to an ASF Trinary or some Triads could retain ASFs

Even with this slight reduction, from the FM:3145 the amount of ASFs in the Raven Alliance is massive - it is stated that with the mobilization of the Naval ASFs that this force is larger than the normal Touman ASF and AMC ASF forces combined.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: marauder648 on 17 January 2020, 06:24:04
I need folks imput and thoughts here!

The Clan Snow Raven Dress uniform is described as.

Quote
A snug-fitting, snow white woolen jacket and trousers is the Snow Raven's dress uniform. Black chevrons cover the upper torso and back, crossing the flared shoulders and merging with the black full length cape. Black boots and belt complete the uniform

And I simply can't even visualise how that would look other than a flaming hot mess that's very 'extra' if we're being polite.

Now, totally unrelated to this and asked for no good reason what so ever related to possible future projects *coughs* instead of...well..*points up* that...something more akin to this is used as a reference.

(https://i.imgur.com/Z9KnplU.png)

Keep the white trousers and sleeves, turn the blue jacket into a black one with white piping, the coat gets turned into a white cloak but with a black inner and various changes to belts etc and frogging.

Ya think that would look good as a Snow Raven officer's dress uniform? Again. Asking for no particular reason...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 17 January 2020, 08:25:29
It sounds like a marching band torso.

And is this a preposed related question to a certain late July -early August party in Indy IN perhaps...

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 11 March 2020, 01:50:48
I'm... back?

Hey.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 11 March 2020, 12:58:52
Nice to see you, again?  ;D

Where ya been?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 11 March 2020, 13:33:13
Welcome back! It's been pretty quiet in here.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 11 March 2020, 16:51:54
Hi Nibs and the other Ravens who are watching the thread.
As you can see, It's been really quiet.  We've had nothing new in the fiction, so we've had nothing to talk about.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 11 March 2020, 20:00:29
Got a thinker here...

Ideal 3155ish fleet, what's your take?

Any Clan and IS jumper, both combat and non...
Include any dropper class and what productions you'd use...

Have fun,
Truetanker
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 11 March 2020, 23:08:42
I've been perusing the last eight years of fiction and TROs since I last touched anything BattleTech. Goodness! The possibility of Raven involvement in Palmyra was delightful.

Mostly, I've been drawn back in again by the Kickstarter. I went in for Star Commander, to add to my little Raven force of a Nova (both arms have fallen off), Stormcrow, Deimos, and Shadow Cat. Combined, I figure I could have a nice OmniMech Binary with a couple Elemental Points. Thinking about getting three Salamander Points to round out the battle armour Star and then a Point of Rocs for fun. I've always been a huge ProtoMech fan.

I have been also considering making an Alliance Military Corps lance to go along with my Ravens. I could even add the Rocs in a combined force, as per canon in FM:3085. Currently, I'm thinking of a Merlin, Night Hawk, Stinger IIC, and maybe a Klondike-era Firefly inherited by the AMC. The art for that one is too rad.

For the Kickstarter UrbanMech, I was thinking of making a scratch force of Ramora Planetary Militia centred around it. A personal favourite of mine, Ramora was also noted for having "Surat" Grey Death Standard defending it from a pirate raid. Throw in some light vehicles and a planetary defense force forms!

I love it when a plan comes together.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 22 March 2020, 06:28:03
Hey trothkin,

I'm building a Raven Alliance protomech binary (which might also serve as a Society false flag force in a campaign). I have 80% of the minis, but I can't decide if I should use Satyr 2, Chysaor 2 to complement this force:

10 Centaur 4
10 Roc
10 Gorgon 3
10 Minoaur 3

Note: I'm not going to bother with using Satyr 1s for scouting, because that's what ASFs with BAP are for  ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 22 March 2020, 07:19:39


I would suggest the Chysaor 2, it is slightly less mobile but the firepower increase helps it in every role.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 22 March 2020, 09:41:46

I would suggest the Chysaor 2, it is slightly less mobile but the firepower increase helps it in every role.

Aye, that's what I was inclined to as well. Piggy it is! *oink*
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 15 June 2020, 05:07:11

So the WarCrow......
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57647.msg1620754#msg1620754

Possible Raven 'Mech?

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 June 2020, 09:06:16
I mean, it would make sense. I guess we'll start finding out soon as the Recognition Guides start coming out. Looking forward to new stuff  ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 15 June 2020, 12:09:11
Could the War Crow be an Omniversion of the Dark Crow?
I think that I can make it work.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 15 June 2020, 12:26:48
Have to admit, I would really like that. The aesthetics of the Dark Crow really stand out. Actually prompted me to start buying mini's again. I'd like to see Raven mechs continue to have that sort of uniqueness.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Minemech on 17 June 2020, 17:39:40
 If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 June 2020, 18:10:07

Stinger IIC
Clint IIC
Stormcrow
Mad Dog
Deimos

Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 June 2020, 19:18:34
If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?

Hellion
Kit Fox
Stormcrow
Mad Dog (Mk III or IV)
Deimos
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Minemech on 17 June 2020, 19:43:05
Fire Moth
Adder
Storm Crow
Mad Dog
Deimos
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 17 June 2020, 21:45:22

Deimos
Vulture III
Stormcrow
Skinwalker (Ryoken III)
Kit Fox
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 18 June 2020, 00:21:46
I love the deimos so I'm happy yo see it's a constant choice. What's everyone's favorite loadout?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 05 July 2020, 21:46:53
I'm happy with the Prime configuration. It's well-balanced and has no problems with heat.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 05 July 2020, 22:48:48
I see the appeal of the Prime, but am partial to the A myself. I really want to test out the S, alas I've not had the opportunity.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 16 July 2020, 20:46:33
Question for the Ravens...

I thought the Ravens were capable of building Lola III's and Fredasas. 

Can a Raven fan confirm or deny this?  Or am I mistaken?  Either way is fine.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 July 2020, 20:59:45
Question for the Ravens...

I thought the Ravens were capable of building Lola III's and Fredasas. 

Can a Raven fan confirm or deny this?  Or am I mistaken?  Either way is fine.

So far as I can recall, Quatre Belle is the only facility for starship construction in the Raven Alliance. It builds JumpShips and is capable of repairing WarShips. I don't recall any mention of the Ravens having the ability to manufacture new WarShips.

I'll double check to be sure.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 16 July 2020, 21:16:43
There is no information on warship construction beyond speculation and rumor.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 July 2020, 21:23:14
There is no information on warship construction beyond speculation and rumor.

^^ This.

Just finished looking through my PDFs. JumpShips only at Quatre Belle, and there's no mention of what classes are manufactured there either.

WarShips are pretty much defunct during the Dark Age. Given the rise of the Pocket WarShip, we're unlikely to see their return, though I would happily be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 16 July 2020, 22:01:26
Thanks for the info, guys.

I hope the Warships make a return, as well.  If so, I'm sure the Raven will lead the way.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 16 July 2020, 22:24:36
P17 XTRO Republic III
Quote
Fear of sabotage over the last decade has seen security at Clan shipyards improved so that access is nearly impossible, but ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle.

Someone thinks they can build Warships.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 16 July 2020, 22:28:20
Yes!  If anyone can do it, it is the Snow Raven. 

Thanks for chiming in with that information, Jellico.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 16 July 2020, 23:46:21
Barring a change of BattleTech universe focus, I wouldn't imagine that we see a significant rise of WarShip numbers. As a literary choice, the Two-Power Standard navy of the pre-War of Reavings Snow Ravens was fun and fine, but I doubt that we'll see a "Ravens increase WarShip navy from 17 to 30!" event. If more WarShips appear, I would predict that the Ravens may gain a single ship of a brand-new class. Better for TROs, better for story, better for dynamic change in the universe, and better for not breaking faction balance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 17 July 2020, 02:44:14
Yes!  If anyone can do it, it is the Snow Raven. 

 <Alshain shipyard> Am I a joke to you!!!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 17 July 2020, 07:22:41
The first rule of Alshain Naval Yard
is you don't mention Alshain Naval Yard.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 July 2020, 10:53:24
P17 XTRO Republic III
Someone thinks they can build Warships.

I'd forgotten that reference was there.


 <Alshain shipyard> Am I a joke to you!!!

I shall answer that Raven fashion.
...
Yes.
...
No.
...
Maybe.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 17 July 2020, 11:24:19
Well, who ultimately helped the Bears build Warships in the first place? The Ravens.  8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 31 July 2020, 14:59:59
Some nice Raveny stuff in TRO Golden Century. Interestingly, the Raven Alliance appears to have put the Pulverizer back into production. It's making the Fedrats crap their drawers  >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: ScottSR4826 on 31 July 2020, 15:15:53
I assume/hope with updated weaponry!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: wantec on 31 July 2020, 15:18:13
I assume/hope with updated weaponry!
There's a version with full Clan tech
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 01 August 2020, 06:54:57
Some nice Raveny stuff in TRO Golden Century. Interestingly, the Raven Alliance appears to have put the Pulverizer back into production. It's making the Fedrats crap their drawers  >:D
It seemed a little vague on whether these are new production models or refits.  There's no question that the Ravens are the foremost producers of Warhammer IICs.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 01 August 2020, 17:12:55
Yeah... the Leviathan III-class a joint Snow Raven/Ghost Bear project. How many are we getting? Who knows for sure. How long will they last? Not a clue, but hopefully long enough to put a smack down on someone (like the IlClan perhaps) and not be destroyed meekly but gloriously in an epic battle.

Also forgot to order Golden Century... must have now.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 August 2020, 14:26:39
Another fun tidbit from the Pulverizer write-up... Snow Ravens designed the Kingfisher.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 02 August 2020, 14:33:52
Another solid design: man why don’t the Bears and Ravens just merge already lol
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 August 2020, 14:36:11
You start on your side of the Combine, we'll start on ours. Meet in the middle.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 02 August 2020, 14:46:26
You start on your side of the Combine, we'll start on ours. Meet in the middle.

I really hope that becomes a thing in the ilClan era.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: CJC070 on 02 August 2020, 14:57:22
Unless the Combine attacks either faction I foresee the Snow Ravens becoming treasure hunters looking for old Star League Castle Brian’s and the Ghost Bears strengthening their bonds in the Dominion and maybe expanding into the Barrens.  According to the Spotlight on: Thermo Police the Snow Ravens have their hands full.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: MarikMilitaMan on 31 August 2020, 06:30:48
According to the Spotlight on: Thermo Police the Snow Ravens have their hands full.

Who with?

Also need to buy this why funds allow, TRO:GC is next on the list though.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: CJC070 on 31 August 2020, 07:11:11
Who with?

Also need to buy this why funds allow, TRO:GC is next on the list though.

Basically combing the Ravens with the Outworlds and dealing with systems that have turned pirate or whose infrastructure has collapsed.  Not to mention rebuilding their touman.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 August 2020, 07:13:55
^^ This.

Just finished looking through my PDFs. JumpShips only at Quatre Belle, and there's no mention of what classes are manufactured there either.

WarShips are pretty much defunct during the Dark Age. Given the rise of the Pocket WarShip, we're unlikely to see their return, though I would happily be proven wrong.

FM:3085 has Quatre Bell building the Comitatus, Hunter and Odyssey classes.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 August 2020, 07:16:42
Another fun tidbit from the Pulverizer write-up... Snow Ravens designed the Kingfisher.

Sorry for the double post, i'd skipped past this little tidbit, is the Kingfisher getting a new mini in the Kickstarter? And if so do you think we'll get it? Or any other new mechs from the kickstarter?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 31 August 2020, 07:28:21
Sorry for the double post, i'd skipped past this little tidbit, is the Kingfisher getting a new mini in the Kickstarter? And if so do you think we'll get it? Or any other new mechs from the kickstarter?

Had to look around a bit. Kingfisher redesign art. Not rendered yet.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 August 2020, 07:33:00
Had to look around a bit. Kingfisher redesign art. Not rendered yet.

Nice, hopefully we get to build it, or as a worse case the Dominion builds it and we buy it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 August 2020, 09:31:05
If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?

Kit Fox
Battle Cobra
Stormcrow
Mad Dog (or modern version)
Deimos
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 31 August 2020, 16:26:29
The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers.  I would not include it in this list.  Maybe substitute Dark Crow.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 31 August 2020, 17:51:02
The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers.  I would not include it in this list.  Maybe substitute Dark Crow.


It’s not an Omni, and other Clans (CJF I think) have shown that they will reuse other designs if they call them something else (whatever is happening with the Viper mech turning into the White Raven or whatever it is).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 September 2020, 14:57:38
The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers.  I would not include it in this list.  Maybe substitute Dark Crow.

That is not an omni though and would we turn down a good design just because of its previous association, after all we make heavy use of the Howler in our second line forces.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 01 September 2020, 14:59:30
That is not an omni though and would we turn down a good design just because of its previous association, after all we make heavy use of the Howler in our second line forces.

As well as taking over production of the Pulverizer... continuing to use it as we approach the ilClan era. The supposed 'taint' of the Battle Cobra is nothing by comparison.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 September 2020, 15:13:51
As well as taking over production of the Pulverizer... continuing to use it as we approach the ilClan era. The supposed 'taint' of the Battle Cobra is nothing by comparison.

I had forgotten about the Pulverizer, that is a very good point.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 01 September 2020, 15:39:25
The Pulverizer was made by wronged friends.  The other clans may not have known the truth, but the Ravens did.  In contrast, the Vipers were annihilated because they genuinely deserved it.  Besides, the mech even looks like a snake. xp
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 01 September 2020, 17:32:42
The Pulverizer was made by wronged friends.  The other clans may not have known the truth, but the Ravens did.  In contrast, the Vipers were annihilated because they genuinely deserved it.  Besides, the mech even looks like a snake. xp


At one point it was known, but knowledge of it was stamped out pretty aggressively by ole Nicky K. I’m sure if he thought the ravens told anyone of the next generation he would have had them go the way of the dodo too.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 02 September 2020, 05:28:00
Why do you think the Ravens got so tricky? :P
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 02 September 2020, 06:29:00
Battle Cobra? Just say no. Nothing lighter than 50 tons needs to have a standard engine if you're running Clan tech. If you get hit through the side torso, it's going to straight through to the CT. Captured Battle Cobras and Crossbows are for trading with our Blood Spirit allies.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 September 2020, 15:01:03
Would the Phantom be more palatable than the Battle Cobra?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 03 September 2020, 15:02:01
I mean, more 'Mechs are always a good thing.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 September 2020, 15:07:05
I mean, more 'Mechs are always a good thing.

I just realised we have it on the MUL and it would fill the space for a scout omni chassis, which the Battle Cobra does not.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 September 2020, 15:55:23
Would the Phantom be more palatable than the Battle Cobra?

Certainly. Although I prefer the Shadow Cat or Nova because they are a bit more multi-role (if we're going off Mechs found on the Raven RAT/MUL list)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crackerb0x on 06 September 2020, 12:51:02
For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 06 September 2020, 14:38:44
For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.

 Oh? I'm on the other end where I love how it looks. Mech wise I enjoy using it as for me it's a pretty solid mech. It's always performed well enough I've never regretted putting it in a bid, either as anti air or hippidy hoppidy get off my property.
 If you play megamek at all you should take it for a spin!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 06 September 2020, 14:53:54
FM:3085 has Quatre Bell building the Comitatus, Hunter and Odyssey classes.

Those are Jumpers, not Warships.

TT

Correction, system defense, scout and transport.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 06 September 2020, 15:09:47
For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.

I haven't used it myself, but I suspect that it's popular purely because it's Raven-made. The Omen is definitely sexier
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: DOC_Agren on 06 September 2020, 16:36:39
Those are Jumpers, not Warships.

TT

Correction, system defense, scout and transport.

TT
They at least keep the space based operations level alive...  and well allows to learn/relearn the skills to make in the future real warships.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 12 September 2020, 02:40:16
I haven't used it myself, but I suspect that it's popular purely because it's Raven-made. The Omen is definitely sexier

It's definitely situated as the signature Raven assault 'Mech, the pride of the touman. I also haven't used it, mostly because I have an unopened mini in a box. It's been there for... eight years now.  :P
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 September 2020, 13:13:00
It's definitely situated as the signature Raven assault 'Mech, the pride of the touman. I also haven't used it, mostly because I have an unopened mini in a box. It's been there for... eight years now.  :P

Heh, I managed to open my mini, but never got around to assembly and paint. Hmm, should really be doing stuff like that right now.

For configs, I kinda like the B. Nice variety of stopping power there.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 20 September 2020, 09:25:22
@Doc

Well at least it's a good source for trials. A Star of Odyssey equals alot of transportation power. I mean, dang who's gonna say no to a ripe target enriched with fresh products?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 22 September 2020, 09:20:29
Psst.

Hey guys.

If you haven't gotten it yet, go get Shrapnel #2.

Some Raveny goodness.

(Yes, this is a shameless plug).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 22 September 2020, 09:49:56
Psst.

Hey guys.

If you haven't gotten it yet, go get Shrapnel #2.

Some Raveny goodness.

(Yes, this is a shameless plug).

 My end thought was, ravens gonna raven!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 22 September 2020, 15:10:33
It would be nice if we could see more of that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 22 September 2020, 16:01:01
The future looks bright on that front.  Ravens deserve a patron voice to give them life on the pages.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 22 September 2020, 16:44:32
I don't have my subscription link to Shrapnel #2 yet  :-[ , reading Thermal Police as a substitute. Nice to know I wasn't the only one who grew up on Emergency! and ADAM-12 reruns!  ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 01 October 2020, 01:58:55
Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman.  ;D

I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.

How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: CJC070 on 01 October 2020, 07:18:38
Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman.  ;D

I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.

How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.

Helps set up on how the Ravens are setting up in Outworlds but not much fluff on them in general.  We are talking about a group form the First Succession War to 3100.  I thought it was well done and worth purchasing especially since there are no Raven Alliance documents.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 01 October 2020, 09:55:02
Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman.  ;D

I do my best.

I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.

DO IT! Do it now!

How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.

It's pretty good. Not a lot of Raven details, but what is there lends to some very interesting possibilities.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 01 October 2020, 17:03:37
Interesting Raven reference on page 13 of Recognition Guide:ilClan Vol.3.  Very mysterious...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 02 October 2020, 00:32:50
DO IT! Do it now!

I wish I had the time to properly do some writing! With schools back in, all I'm writing are lesson plans.

Interesting Raven reference on page 13 of Recognition Guide:ilClan Vol.3.  Very mysterious...

I do not want to spoil it - I should purchase it if I really want to know - but any hint on the general time period of this Raven reference? Current timeframe, 3150ish?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 02 October 2020, 11:15:41
I do not want to spoil it - I should purchase it if I really want to know - but any hint on the general time period of this Raven reference? Current timeframe, 3150ish?

No clear timeframe. I'm assuming sometime within 10 years of the report, so 3140-50, but that's just a guess.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 07 November 2020, 07:59:13
New toys fellow Ravens!  :beer:
The Stormcrow is back in production and there are two new omnimechs: Warcrow is the only one mentioned by name.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 07 November 2020, 08:22:29
New toys fellow Ravens!  :beer:
The Stormcrow is back in production and there are two new omnimechs: Warcrow is the only one mentioned by name.
Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs? 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 07 November 2020, 08:59:27
Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs?

I think we can.

Looking forward to seeing if we get access to any of the Sea Fox produced designs in this RecGuide as well, really hoping we get the Warhammer C 3.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: wantec on 07 November 2020, 14:30:00
I think we can.

Looking forward to seeing if we get access to any of the Sea Fox produced designs in this RecGuide as well, really hoping we get the Warhammer C 3.
It's not up to me, but I would think most anything Sea Fox is available for sale, unless specifically stated otherwise (like how the Hammerhead is Clan only)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Guardian11 on 07 November 2020, 19:05:31
Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs?
Considering the Ravens sold enough Stormcrows to the Combine that they could afford to mass waves of Stormcrows as shocktroops against Davion Assault Mechs on New Avalon, would require the Ravens to put it into mass production.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 07 November 2020, 20:19:29
Considering the Ravens sold enough Stormcrows to the Combine that they could afford to mass waves of Stormcrows as shocktroops against Davion Assault Mechs on New Avalon, would require the Ravens to put it into mass production.

Wait, what!? Selling the lovely and amazing Stormcrows to the bad people of the Combine?  :(
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 07 November 2020, 20:37:08
Wait, what!? Selling the lovely and amazing Stormcrows to the bad people of the Combine?  :(

I was hoping that was a misprint.  But it's not.

I thought selling  Omni technology to the Spheroids was taboo, to be honest.  My Shark Foxes would never stoop so low!  ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 07 November 2020, 21:27:30
I was hoping that was a misprint.  But it's not.

I thought selling  Omni technology to the Sphereoids was taboo, to be honest.  My Shark Foxes would never stoop so low!  ;)

Typical Shark Foxes, lies!  ;)

I just would have thought that the Ravens are generally hard up on their forces and would need 'Mechs, not sell them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 07 November 2020, 21:29:49
Typical Shark Foxes, lies!  ;)

I just would have thought that the Ravens are generally hard up on their forces and would need 'Mechs, not sell them.

Well now that they live in the IS they have to pay their workers with more than a right to continue living.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 07 November 2020, 21:48:38
It is being sold "outside".
Doesn’t say the OA is selling them to the Combine. Rather certain DC regiments have a notable number of them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GuyIncognito on 07 November 2020, 22:47:44
Besides, Ravens and the Combine have a ton in common. Like the indiscriminate massacre of the innocent populations of entire planets. Surely that's a good icebreaker for opening trade relations?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 07 November 2020, 23:30:41
I have to say, the Raven dice and challenge coin from the Kickstarter are gorgeous. Absolutely love them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 08 November 2020, 00:09:57
I hope the Ravens have a good role to play.  The IlClan will need a Navy one day, and when they do, they'll come to the Raven. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 08 November 2020, 08:25:28
Besides, Ravens and the Combine have a ton in common. Like the indiscriminate massacre of the innocent populations of entire planets. Surely that's a good icebreaker for opening trade relations?
In the Raven's defense, it was happening during the Jihad when the Ravens were facing possible extinction and they were not of sound mind.  For the Combine, it was the traditional way of government. :fine_print:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 10 November 2020, 00:20:03
In the Raven's defense, it was happening during the Jihad when the Ravens were facing possible extinction and they were not of sound mind.  For the Combine, it was the traditional way of government. :fine_print:

They were knew to the Inner Sphere. They were just trying to follow Combine traditions while visiting their worlds.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 11 November 2020, 06:14:50
They initiated a trial of dont start nothing wont be nothing.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 16 November 2020, 02:42:19
I’d like to see the Ravens adopt more ideas from the Bears and get their government/economy going. Take back some of the Outland Wastes, write IE a massive check and/or absorb them, and put up a big sign like the Bears that says It dare you to step over that line in (the sand) space we drew: dare ya!’
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 November 2020, 15:25:55
Another recognition guide, another new toy.  The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 20 November 2020, 15:44:42
Another recognition guide, another new toy.  The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D
Bit ugly, but it has a lot more armor and speed than the old howler variant. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 21 November 2020, 04:13:01
Another recognition guide, another new toy.  The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D

Great isn't it and in use both in the Raven clusters and the Alliance Milita. Also interesting that we are assigning Stars of them to worlds of the Alliance who lack garrison forces.

From a quick read this morning we've done well out of this one, we build the Devil, it sounds like we have at least some Howlers in service (either legacy mechs or ones bought from the Falcons via the Foxes?) we should have the Rifleman C 3 from the Foxes as well via trade and i would imagine we will also get access to the Fire Moth and Viper from our friends in the Rasalhague Dominion.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 05 December 2020, 06:51:13
Another design in production in the Raven Alliance.  And there is still another omnimech that was hinted at.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 05 December 2020, 23:59:16
Great isn't it and in use both in the Raven clusters and the Alliance Milita. Also interesting that we are assigning Stars of them to worlds of the Alliance who lack garrison forces.

From a quick read this morning we've done well out of this one, we build the Devil, it sounds like we have at least some Howlers in service (either legacy mechs or ones bought from the Falcons via the Foxes?) we should have the Rifleman C 3 from the Foxes as well via trade and i would imagine we will also get access to the Fire Moth and Viper from our friends in the Rasalhague Dominion.

And also the Executioner and every Vulture config and chassis known to man likewise through the Dominion.

Between those and the Omen, Deimos, and White Raven plus the Hippogriff Proto I'd be reasonably content with what I could make out of a list for any occasion.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GuyIncognito on 06 December 2020, 10:11:54
It's been a little surprising just how much love/attention the RA's been getting in the Recog Guides.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 06 December 2020, 16:59:59
It's nice to know that the Ravens haven't been sent to the periphery by TPTB to waste away.

Scotty, add the Stormcrow to that list. ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 06 December 2020, 17:20:29
Scotty, add the Stormcrow to that list. ;)

And War Crow.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 06 December 2020, 17:40:07
And the Dark Crow!





Wait.





no, actually take that one back off.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 06 December 2020, 19:23:40
And the Dark Crow!





Wait.





no, actually take that one back off.
It is one of the Raven Mechs I do not have a mini of, I don't mind the looks, but for its price I can get something with much better stats.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 12 December 2020, 10:32:26
And the Dark Crow!

Wait.

no, actually take that one back off.

Hey! I LIKE the Dark Crow. Wish that quirky aesthetic was seen more in some new designs.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 12 December 2020, 22:53:47
I never liked the Dark Crow aesthetic. Too weird, too wild.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 13 December 2020, 07:13:37
I never liked the Dark Crow aesthetic. Too weird, too wild.

Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 December 2020, 07:56:25
Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)

I miss Spike, how is she?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 13 December 2020, 09:07:23
I have no problem with the looks of the Dark Crow, but I would have liked a better weapons loadout. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 13 December 2020, 10:32:24
I have no problem with the looks of the Dark Crow, but I would have liked a better weapons loadout.
Dark Crow design thread?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 13 December 2020, 14:16:23
Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)

That's neat have a little personal connection.  :)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 13 December 2020, 15:13:45
I miss Spike, how is she?

I haven't spoken with Spike in a bit, but at last count she was still kickin' it in St. Louis.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 14 December 2020, 16:34:56
I haven't spoken with Spike in a bit, but at last count she was still kickin' it in St. Louis.

Good to hear, miss chatting to her.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Decoy on 14 December 2020, 22:16:52
Something that's probably nothing. The Republic knows about the Snow Raven's betrayal of the Federated Suns. Soon, Alaric may know it. What do you think Alaric's response will be and how the Snow Ravens will handle it? It is not a good look for the Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Cannonshop on 14 December 2020, 22:47:23
Something that's probably nothing. The Republic knows about the Snow Raven's betrayal of the Federated Suns. Soon, Alaric may know it. What do you think Alaric's response will be and how the Snow Ravens will handle it? It is not a good look for the Ravens.

It might not parse as negatively as you think.  Caleb Davion is not exactly the sort of person who would inspire a lot of confidence to begin with, and his demonstrably bad strategies can be cited as reason enough for the Snow Ravens to drop him (and his nation) like cutting an anchor chain that's dragging you into an abyss.

Even among the Clans themselves, maintaining an alliance with that level of dangerously incompetent, is dangerously incompetent.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Decoy on 15 December 2020, 01:00:38
There's what we see and what the people in the world see. Much of what Caleb was and wasn't is not public knowledge in universe.  I've seen little that says the perception of Caleb shouldn't be anything other than a martyr. If you have anything that says the public perception of Caleb was that he was a nutso, then point me to it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Cannonshop on 15 December 2020, 11:29:46
There's what we see and what the people in the world see. Much of what Caleb was and wasn't is not public knowledge in universe.  I've seen little that says the perception of Caleb shouldn't be anything other than a martyr. If you have anything that says the public perception of Caleb was that he was a nutso, then point me to it.

His "Strategy" that led to Palmyra was absolute incompetence from day one-a strategy that was doomed from the get-go and only needed to face a mildly competent opponent to fail utterly...and anyone let in on the plan as an ally would be able to identify it as such.  'martyr'? sure, as long as you don't know as much aobut the plan as he let them in on in order to be 'counting' on their help.

I tend to believe the Snow Ravens could read a map, and at minimum ,knew what happens when you gut your forces to put the majority of them on a single point of failure.  (*Which is what Caleb DID).

that kind of 'thinking' is dangerously incompetent.  It would take a junior officer five minutes to demonstrate why staying allied to this schmuck was a recipe for national suicide.  Here's the other thing: it would take maybe one or two meetings with high level officers to figure out that the Federated Suns was being run by a moron, and to coordinate a strategy, you get LOTS of those meetings.

In the end, the Snow Ravens did the practical move- they got out of a bad alliance with their forces and economy mostly intact by NOT committing suicide via someone-else's-war.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Decoy on 15 December 2020, 14:51:45
But that's neither here or there for the Snow Ravens. They didn't act like a Clan, so maybe they shouldn't be one. The Snow Ravens acted in bad faith. The deal was not Bargained Well or Done. No matter what Caleb was, the Snow Ravens acted badly. Since TPTB want to shield the Snow Ravens, likely nothing will happen. But still, the matter is that ill befitting of a clan of Kerensky.

Is it the Clan way to make that agreement, renege on it, and then attack them?  If the Snow Ravens were acting on good faith, they would not have taken that deal in the first place. The Snow Ravens are truely ardent followers of the Way of the Kerenskies.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 15 December 2020, 15:05:12
But that's neither here or there for the Snow Ravens. They didn't act like a Clan, so maybe they shouldn't be one. The Snow Ravens acted in bad faith. The deal was not Bargained Well or Done. No matter what Caleb was, the Snow Ravens acted badly. Since TPTB want to shield the Snow Ravens, likely nothing will happen. But still, the matter is that ill befitting of a clan of Kerensky.

Is it the Clan way to make that agreement, renege on it, and then attack them?  If the Snow Ravens were acting on good faith, they would not have taken that deal in the first place. The Snow Ravens are truely ardent followers of the Way of the Kerenskies.
That depends, how was the deal worded?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 15 December 2020, 15:30:12
If the Ravens survive this, then it will come down to "might makes right".  It would not be the first time a Clan broke their word; see the Ice Hellions and Hell's Horses, just for one example.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 15 December 2020, 16:23:56
It should be pointed out that the Wolves broke their alliance with the Lyrans during their joint invasion of the FWL.  The Wolves took a good chunk of the Commonwealth in doing so.  The Ravens only took a pair long after it was obvious that the Suns were ailing.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Decoy on 15 December 2020, 18:33:37
Ah. But the Lyrans operated in bad faith. If the Lyrans had operated in good faith, we'd be looking at a very different Innersphere right now.

The what, when and hows of the Raven deal are a little more murky. What we do know is that Sterling McKenna accepted the offer, Raven Naval support in a campaign against the Draconis Combine in exchange for three worlds. The main reason the FedSuns forces stayed on Palmyra so long was that they were waiting for these forces to arrive. If McKenna was operating in good faith, then she would've sent word ahead that she was opting out.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 15 December 2020, 18:42:09
On the other hand, it doesn't actually matter much whether it's a matter of good faith or not.  If McKenna has any kind of provable suspicion that Caleb killed Harrison then her reneg is justified, especially since it adroitly sent the major threat in the region to the Alliance thundering into the opposite direction.

I think this line of questioning is fundamentally flawed in the first place, though.  The literal last thing that Alaric (or whoever is in charge of the ilClan when it happens) is going to want to do is create enemies when allies are more necessary.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 15 December 2020, 20:49:30
Do the Wolves care about the Fed Suns? Only the Sea Foxes have any investment in the Suns and that is with Julian.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Cannonshop on 15 December 2020, 23:51:00
Ah. But the Lyrans operated in bad faith. If the Lyrans had operated in good faith, we'd be looking at a very different Innersphere right now.

The what, when and hows of the Raven deal are a little more murky. What we do know is that Sterling McKenna accepted the offer, Raven Naval support in a campaign against the Draconis Combine in exchange for three worlds. The main reason the FedSuns forces stayed on Palmyra so long was that they were waiting for these forces to arrive. If McKenna was operating in good faith, then she would've sent word ahead that she was opting out.

The strategic issue is simpler than how long Caleb STAYED on Palmyra, it was that he gutted his national defense and put those forces on a single point of failure.

and, y'know, that his subordinates went ahead with it instead of thinking, demonstrating that it wasn't just ONE incompetent involved here.  (and also, they might've taken a look at Federated Suns Naval doctrine and realized what their 'allies' intended and said 'NOPE'!!)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Guardian11 on 16 December 2020, 19:40:46
Many of the FedSun Commanders knew Caleb was incompetent and nuts, and many knew his plan was flawed, but Caleb refused to listen to anyone, and would cashier or threaten anyone who opposed him. This is made pretty clear in the FedSun sections of Redemption Rift. Also, Caleb ignored pretty much all the military reforms and work his grandparents' put in to rebuild and protect the FedSuns. Also, I feel like Stirling through her relationship with Caleb discovered, or totally suspected that Caleb was responsible for his father's death. If so, then leaving Caleb hanging is pretty justified. Also, there is enough ambiguity to the events setting up Palmyra that it could have been that Caleb told Sterling his plan and told her the Raven's part in it without soliciting her advice or acceptance, so that there was a demand for support, but no actual deal.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 December 2020, 07:04:47
So from TRO:GC we get access to the Coyotl and Woodsman in addition to the Pulverizer and the Rec Guides have given us two versions of the Vapor Eagle as well.

Also from re-reading the earlier rec guide that gave us the Devil (in which it mentions that all worlds lacking a mech garrison now have a Star of Devil's assigned). The Howler entry mentions the garrison on a world bordering the Combine that consists of a mech Binary (including a Star of Howlers), Protomech Trinary and Star of AeroSpace Fighters. Do you think we would have that kind of force on all worlds facing the Combine and Suns that do not have line forces on them?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 December 2020, 09:35:11
At minimum.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 December 2020, 09:51:48
Guess it would explain why our second line forces haven't expanded either, if we are putting garrisons on every Alliance world.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GreekFire on 22 December 2020, 14:56:40
Quote
Quote from: GreekFire on 20 December 2020, 18:56:47
To offer my take on things, why would the Ravens spend their limited funds importing the Howler when their natively-produced ProtoMechs (or even older Alliance BattleMechs/vehicles) could already largely fill the same roles.

In addition, I did some math (always a terrible idea as far as BattleTech is concerned. Don't do this at home, kids). Based off of:
-The Raven's heavy use of Omni units in their second-line formations,
-The Raven's use of Triads for said formations (leaving only 25 BattleMechs per Cluster), and
-The losses suffered immediately after their exodus from the Homeworlds as detailed in Field Report: The Clans,

We come out to a rough total of 27 Clan-tech second-line 'Mechs left in the Ravens' entire touman by 3079. To put things in perspective, the Ravens had access to 79 distinct second-line designs during the Jihad era. So certain things have to be dropped by the Early Republic era, and as far as the Howler is concerned, I figured the Ravens would prefer to refit old models to the more advance 2/3 standard than vice versa.

Quote
Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%

Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.

Just to clarify, it's important to note that my comment about "heavy use of Omni units" refers to the FM:U and FR:Clans breakdowns of their touman. That's what I used as a base for my rough math calculating how many active second-line units they had on hand by 3079.

Of course, things changed by 3145. All of their formations show a glut of second-line designs by then, but many of them are likely units that they natively produce, such as the Stinger IIC, Devil, Goshawk II, Shadow Hawk IIC, Dark Crow, Warhammer IIC, Omen...really, they're swimming in native production of second-line BattleMechs.

But the Ravens aren't a rich Clan--spending their few Escudos on another second-line 'Mech seemed nonsensical to me when their native ProtoMech designs such as the Hippogriff can already accomplish much of what the Howler can for a fraction of the price and resources. It makes more sense, to me, for them to focus on importing OmniMechs/OmniFighters or designs that they can't easily mimic with "lesser" forces.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 22 December 2020, 15:02:25

Well they are selling a lot of stormcrows, maybe also some other designs to finance the bills.
And we are assuming that there are no secret galaxies off the books. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 22 December 2020, 15:07:51
Well they are selling a lot of stormcrows, maybe also some other designs to finance the bills.
And we are assuming that there are no secret galaxies off the books.

Sshhh, we do not wish to tip off the Spheroids.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 22 December 2020, 15:38:21
Just to clarify, it's important to note that my comment about "heavy use of Omni units" refers to the FM:U and FR:Clans breakdowns of their touman. That's what I used as a base for my rough math calculating how many active second-line units they had on hand by 3079.

Of course, things changed by 3145. All of their formations show a glut of second-line designs by then, but many of them are likely units that they natively produce, such as the Stinger IIC, Devil, Goshawk II, Shadow Hawk IIC, Dark Crow, Warhammer IIC, Omen...really, they're swimming in native production of second-line BattleMechs.

But the Ravens aren't a rich Clan--spending their few Escudos on another second-line 'Mech seemed nonsensical to me when their native ProtoMech designs such as the Hippogriff can already accomplish much of what the Howler can for a fraction of the price and resources. It makes more sense, to me, for them to focus on importing OmniMechs/OmniFighters or designs that they can't easily mimic with "lesser" forces.

Fair enough and your take on the 2nd line designs makes sense, guess i'm just annoyed that we don't get the Howler even though the combat report is for a rec guide entry for the standard model but we only have access to the 2 and 3 which are phoenix designs and not part of the rec guide series.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GreekFire on 22 December 2020, 15:56:11
Fair enough and your take on the 2nd line designs makes sense, guess i'm just annoyed that we don't get the Howler even though the combat report is for a rec guide entry for the standard model but we only have access to the 2 and 3 which are phoenix designs and not part of the rec guide series.

Although the 2 and 3 have been historically been presented as being Phoenix designs, I wouldn't bat an eye at someone using a Classic Howler to represent them. The Recognition Guide series has now established that certain previously-Phoenix'd refits or designs (like the Griffin 4R or Warhammer 8M) in fact (can) use the Classic art.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 December 2020, 04:43:45
Although the 2 and 3 have been historically been presented as being Phoenix designs, I wouldn't bat an eye at someone using a Classic Howler to represent them. The Recognition Guide series has now established that certain previously-Phoenix'd refits or designs (like the Griffin 4R or Warhammer 8M) in fact (can) use the Classic art.

I'd not spotted that, about the Griffin and Warhammer?

Will use the new Howler sculpt as soon as I can get my mits on some.

Happy Christmas fellow Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 06 January 2021, 21:03:06
I finally picked up Shrapnel #2 and read your story, Jaim. I love the ending, particularly the last line from Ismiril.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 January 2021, 21:10:36
I finally picked up Shrapnel #2 and read your story, Jaim. I love the ending, particularly the last line from Ismiril.

Thanks! It was a fun story to write :)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 09 January 2021, 23:00:41
Writing for the Snow Ravens must be a tad difficult when it includes the political maneuvering necessary for the full Raven flavour - not just the stereotypical 'rah-rah me strong' Clan characters. But you nailed it.

I also picked up Rock of the Republic, Children of Kerensky, and Hour of the Wolf. Absolutely loving the writing from Pardoe. Just finished Children at this moment and taking a breather if only to extend the suspense before Hour of the Wolf. Anyone else read these yet?

Not too much Raven content to discuss yet, other than Hakke. Maybe the brief appearance of saKhan Iqbal Lankenau.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 10 January 2021, 08:25:52
There wasn't much of anything for Raven fans.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 January 2021, 10:40:38
Writing for the Snow Ravens must be a tad difficult when it includes the political maneuvering necessary for the full Raven flavour - not just the stereotypical 'rah-rah me strong' Clan characters. But you nailed it.

You do have to think about things more, that's for sure. The obvious motives are easy, but finding that sneaky subtext, that advantage the Ravens look for, can be tricky. Makes it fun though. And adding some depth to the Clans is sometimes needed. Only so much 'rah-rah me strong' you can stomach ;)

I also picked up Rock of the Republic, Children of Kerensky, and Hour of the Wolf. Absolutely loving the writing from Pardoe. Just finished Children at this moment and taking a breather if only to extend the suspense before Hour of the Wolf. Anyone else read these yet?

I've read all the recent fiction. I have nothing but time right now  xp
I have... thoughts. Few of them good.

Not too much Raven content to discuss yet, other than Hakke. Maybe the brief appearance of saKhan Iqbal Lankenau.

Yeah, very little for any Clans but Wolf and Jade Falcon. I found Iqbal's portrayal rather cartoonish, which was disappointing.

Hopefully the new era will contain more and interesting plots for the Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 10 January 2021, 10:50:16
Thanks! It was a fun story to write :)

I have to go back and read Schrapnel 2 again.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Gaiiten on 10 January 2021, 11:17:27
What do you Ravens think? Will you bend your knees before the ilClan?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 January 2021, 11:25:53
What do you Ravens think? Will you bend your knees before the ilClan?

Certainly.
...
And then look for a sneaky, underhanded advantage to use against our enemies  >:D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 10 January 2021, 11:45:57
Certainly.
...
And then look for a sneaky, underhanded advantage to use against our enemies  >:D
And with the right concessions, such as ownership of all naval facilities in IlClan territory.... 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 10 January 2021, 13:10:06
I'll bet you Ravens will build a " Death Star "  bigger than the Leviathan III...

and probably call it ' Darth Crow ', or something...

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 10 January 2021, 16:47:50
I'll bet you Ravens will build a " Death Star "  bigger than the Leviathan III...

and probably call it ' Darth Crow ', or something...

TT

A Murder of Stars.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 January 2021, 10:25:01
So rec guide 11 has confirmed we control the only Kit Fox factory in the inner sphere and we get the Horned Owl from the Dominion, I also suspect we will have access to the Phoenix Hawk C 2 given it has the ubiquitous quirk.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 16 January 2021, 10:46:01
So rec guide 11 has confirmed we control the only Kit Fox factory in the inner sphere  *snip*

Oh god, NO's!

* Imagines a Kit Fox armed with an Arrow launcher, ADA ammo and a single ER Medium! Scouting the sky for targets. *

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 16 January 2021, 11:18:25
What's to imagine?  The V config is in the new Rec Guide that news comes from.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 January 2021, 11:28:50
Yeah....  8) :drool: >:D :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 January 2021, 11:28:57
No more having to use Naga's or arrow Bombardiers.
Just get a Star of 4 Kit Fox V and a one other bodyguard 'Mech with TAG.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 January 2021, 11:31:26
No more having to use Naga's or arrow Bombardiers.
Just get a Star of 4 Kit Fox V and a one other bodyguard 'Mech with TAG.

Well, the Fire Moth A fits that bill (and we get the chassis from the Dominion).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 16 January 2021, 12:57:36
Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty.  That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 January 2021, 13:10:21
Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty.  That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Vehicles are a bit of a rarity in Raven frontline units.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 16 January 2021, 13:40:01
Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty.  That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Mechs can move through terrain that tanks cannot, and the Kitfox can keep up with most mech formations.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 16 January 2021, 13:58:27
I wasn't joking about the Arrow, but the V config.

" Light " Arty in a Recce Star? Yes, please!

Sounds fowl to me, eh Falcons?  ::)

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GuyIncognito on 16 January 2021, 14:13:06
Sounds fowl to me, eh Falcons?  ::)

Only when it's someone else, doing it to the Falcons.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 16 January 2021, 14:19:47
Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty.  That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Rule of cool. Tho I do have one on a dire wolf for giggles in a campaign.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 16 January 2021, 14:44:36
Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty.  That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.

I agree.

But Kit Foxes are so fragile between their average (for a light mech) speed and thin armor, it’s not a bad idea to get them off the front line and into the rear.  Same might hold true for Hellbringers, honestly.

And if your dropship cargo hold doesn’t have room leftover for a couple Hueys or a star of Hadurs, then the ability to switch to an Arrow IV configuration on dated OmniMechs like the Kit Fox makes sense for those times when you run into a dezgra fortification that you’d rather not waste a star or trinary assaulting.

But yeah, the Naga and Scylla are wastes of potential, pulling duty better left to tanks.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 January 2021, 15:11:09
From what I understand the Ravens leave their ART vehicles with the garrison units.
Also there is an argument to make of only having to transport some Arrow IV pods, instead of entire vehicles.


[Edit]Example
Frontline: Kit Fox V, Mad Dog V
Secondline: Bombardier BMB-05A, Huey (AAA)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 January 2021, 15:27:29
I wonder if they are used by the Alliance Milita as well, seems like a nice surprise for anyone who comes across a milita Recon Lance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 January 2021, 17:29:25
(https://i.ibb.co/WxB5CGK/Recog-Guide-Cover-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znPxdQf)

Looks like we get to find out about the White Raven this Friday.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 25 January 2021, 17:39:35
It actually looks good......  :o
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 January 2021, 17:41:29
It actually looks good......  :o

Aff  :drool:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Verloren Hoop on 25 January 2021, 20:49:19
It's giving off the old Viper/Black Python vibes.

Edit: Duh.  Thought the cover was the white raven. 

Anyway, it looks sweet. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 26 January 2021, 16:10:26
they are the same thing
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 29 January 2021, 17:35:36
Two more new toys! :D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 30 January 2021, 07:22:27
Two more new toys! :D

Yep, both very nice additions, guess we might have some Shadow Hawk C's kicking around in the AMC as well, would make sense to convert any old chassis they have kicking around.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 30 January 2021, 17:20:06
I am disturbed to hear that we are trialing against the Bears.  I am not sure if that is what allies do to each other.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 30 January 2021, 17:46:32
Yeah. Trialing is normal. There's history such as the Wolves and Horses trialing for Elemental armor and genetics. Even the White Raven entry mentions the Suns are no longer accepting friendly Trials (which implies they used to).

I also noticed that two of the Raven the KS backers got their characters in. Hope they are liking what they got. Both look pretty cool to me.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 30 January 2021, 17:50:51
I am disturbed to hear that we are trialing against the Bears.  I am not sure if that is what allies do to each other.

They said it was a friendly small scale trial. Then it got escalated by a guy on his way out and became a bigger deal. But still not a big deal.

In GB lore we had a relationship with WiE so we would trial with them. At the same time we didn’t have a relationship with CNC, and they would trial us. After on Mississippi they didn’t cut it out so we wrecked them.

The ravens relationship, plus that they are building our top secret super-ultimate-mega-destroyer warship, is what allows these types of trials.

This is blood sport rather than war.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 30 January 2021, 18:34:43
Yes, I'm still focused on the future.  I look forward to the true unveiling of Quatre Belle, and their capabilities as builders of warships. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 30 January 2021, 18:36:55
When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 30 January 2021, 18:57:39

When all the RecGuides are done, it would be nice to summarize all the industry that has been build up.
The Ravens have managed to do so much work over the decades in universe.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 30 January 2021, 19:28:39
When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!

Oh... I can find a way...

If TPTB would lend a ear?

Like I would tell you my suggestions!

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 31 January 2021, 02:02:42
When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!
And ask, "gee. Can that maintenance yard really build WarShips?"  :)

 mean I think I have them down as able to build JumpShips by now, but in Objectives QBSY could only manage maintenance. Mysterious comments in XTRO Republic III notwithstanding.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 31 January 2021, 06:54:18
Yes, I'm still focused on the future.  I look forward to the true unveiling of Quatre Belle, and their capabilities as builders of warships.
The Ravens need the money for warships before they build them.  Presently, the need for a stronger ground-based touman would draw the lion's share of military resources.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 31 January 2021, 11:47:18
And ask, "gee. Can that maintenance yard really build WarShips?"  :)

 mean I think I have them down as able to build JumpShips by now, but in Objectives QBSY could only manage maintenance. Mysterious comments in XTRO Republic III notwithstanding.

To be fair, Objectives was, at this point, set over 80 years ago.  A lot of yards started existing in a lot of worse tech bases a lot faster than that in the 50s-60s.

I'm not actually suuuuuper sure of when IS Warship production got back up to speed, but even with nothing bit the power of broad strokes guessing the maximum outer bounds are early to mid 50s to have everything back in action, based entirely on the lack of WarShips to contest the initial invasion and the decidedly not-lack of them during Serpent.

tl;dr more has been done faster before with less
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 31 January 2021, 15:27:17
People always look at Quatre Belle, or Alshain, or Butler, or whatever is in the Chainelains, and ignore the half dozen DC and FWL WarShip capable yards that came through the Jihad completely unscathed.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 31 January 2021, 15:35:01
Quatre Belle represents what ifs for Raven fans.  The ultimate what if, really. 

It captures the imagination.   
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 31 January 2021, 16:55:41
Quatre Belle represents what ifs for Raven fans.  The ultimate what if, really. 

It captures the imagination.

I’m hoping for the most literal interpretation of four Taco Bell drive-throughs.  So I don’t have a long wait in my Warcrow for my Gordita Crunch.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 03 February 2021, 23:04:01
I have a craving for nachos.  Maybe a taco or Quatre.

It's not your fault, its just funny a week later.

Ravens need more content to post about, I guess.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 04 February 2021, 03:29:04
You guys, wake me up if there are any new Raven protomech designs released in the ilClan updates
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 16 February 2021, 03:01:37
I finally picked up one of the Rec Guides. I am absolutely in love with the Devil! I am especially glad that I ordered the Ad Hoc Star from the Kickstarter to get the Howler miniature. I love the aesthetic, but wanted to avoid using a 20-tonner (so little armour!). Even 30 tonnes would be much better.

And what do you know? The upgrade to the Devil's weight is perfect. The speed is perfect. The load out is perfect. The art is beautiful. I wanted to put a Clan 'Mech in my Alliance Militia Corps lance and I'm happy that the AMC has been noted to be receiving occasional secondline Raven 'Mechs like the Clint IIC. Gives the AMC a bit of Raven Alliance flavour without being overpowered.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 17 February 2021, 04:57:40
The Devil is cute.

Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 17 February 2021, 06:23:54
You are not hallucinating.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 February 2021, 09:52:37
You are not hallucinating.
The Devil is cute.

Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?

Ravens are scavengers after all. Why waste a good design?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 February 2021, 12:16:11
The Devil is cute.

Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?
The 'Mech was covered in crude snake-oil, the Ravens gave it the needed cleaning.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 19 February 2021, 09:08:08
Ravens are scavengers after all. Why waste a good design?
My feelings can be summed up in a quote from bloodsport,"What's the difference if Bruce Springsteen is his shidoshi?"
 Just the ravens doing more things that makes me love them.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 19 February 2021, 15:07:15
We got a Wolverine design and a Steel Vipers design. Now, we just need a Mongoose design and then we'll complete our collection of "Dead Enemy" designs.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 February 2021, 17:13:57
We got a Wolverine design and a Steel Vipers design. Now, we just need a Mongoose design and then we'll complete our collection of "Dead Enemy" designs.

What designs did the they produce?

I hope we get the Kingfisher though.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Ruger on 19 February 2021, 17:16:16
What designs did the they produce?

I hope we get the Kingfisher though.

The Chippewa IIC.

Ruger
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 20 February 2021, 00:52:42
I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?

If Julian Davion becomes the shining saviour that the story seems to be leading him, then the Alliance will be in big trouble.

First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.

Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")

Or maybe the developers just want to give the 'Mech naming/aesthetic flavour to the Clan, much like the Wolves/Falcons/Horses/Bears.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 February 2021, 07:41:25
The Inner Sphere will need to be subdued.  The Ravens are to be a part of that.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 February 2021, 07:50:08
The Chippewa IIC.

Ruger

Cheers, but not a mech so won't be in the rec guides.

I think the Locust IIC was originally Mongoose though.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: CJC070 on 20 February 2021, 08:18:55
I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?

If Julian Davion becomes the shining saviour that the story seems to be leading him, then the Alliance will be in big trouble.

First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.

Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")

Or maybe the developers just want to give the 'Mech naming/aesthetic flavour to the Clan, much like the Wolves/Falcons/Horses/Bears.

One thing to note about the Ravens is their lack of original mech designs to begin with.  Maybe what we are seeing is an expansion of their designs rather than a sign of a greater fall.  Besides the Fedsuns are probably more angry with the Combine who has conquered their capital.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 20 February 2021, 13:08:55


First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.

Do remember that you are talking about some worlds that haven't changed flags since the Reunification War (or 1SW) and others that have never changed flags.

Quote
Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")
Certainly their betrayal at Palmyra deserves more than a paragraph. A couple of pages at least (500 words or so).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 20 February 2021, 13:59:42
One thing to note about the Ravens is their lack of original mech designs to begin with.  Maybe what we are seeing is an expansion of their designs rather than a sign of a greater fall.  Besides the Fedsuns are probably more angry with the Combine who has conquered their capital.

True enough. My thoughts were pure speculation on a number of possibilities, rather than any strong feeling on my part. I do believe that New Avalon will be re-conquered (there is generally a status quo of sorts that is maintained long-term in BattleTech, including capitals not being conquered long-term). But afterwards? Will the Ravens pay then?

Do remember that you are talking about some worlds that haven't changed flags since the Reunification War (or 1SW) and others that have never changed flags.
Certainly their betrayal at Palmyra deserves more than a paragraph. A couple of pages at least (500 words or so).

Absolutely true. I should have been careful to note that I don't aim to be a grumbler who complains about the plot because it's not 'fair'. I certainly don't mind at all if 'my' faction is bumbling at times - I don't want the Ravens to be blessed with "plot armour", as some call it. it is just hard to imagine any other occurrence of resistance at this level. A bombing or assassination can happen for anyone, sure, but the Ravens have actually had to retreat their ground forces from some planets and the text suggests that the Ravens may have to fully abandon other gains without any military threat.

I am merely surprised at the lacklustre nature of the Ravens being unable capitalize even a little bit off of their engineering of one of the greatest military defeats in history. Again, I'm not complaining nor advocating any changes to the plot, but rather expressing some surprise. I thought the key to limit their gains would be resistance from the Outworlds people most of all.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 20 February 2021, 16:10:32
What designs did the they produce?

I hope we get the Kingfisher though.

Doesn't have to be a currently known one. It could be a "new" Mech that they just haven't used for a while that they are starting production of again (like the The Devil).

I'm fine with losing as long as A) we don't get completely wiped out and B) we don't become a punching bag where we start losing EVERY fight.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 20 February 2021, 17:21:49
Just be happy that TPTB haven't killed us off and we're still a viable power in the Inner Sphere
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 20 February 2021, 18:44:05
I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?

I would be willing to bet that the most likely reason the Ravens are getting more love in the Recognition Guides is that the only thing they got in TRO 3145/3150 was the Hippogriff.  There has been a distinct lack of new Ravens hardware in the Dark Age prior to this series.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 February 2021, 21:08:32
I was hoping that it was because they were going to do something interesting.  :-[
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 20 February 2021, 21:12:36
I don't see why that's mutually exclusive with what I said ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 21 February 2021, 12:11:20
I would be willing to bet that the most likely reason the Ravens are getting more love in the Recognition Guides is that the only thing they got in TRO 3145/3150 was the Hippogriff.

Not true, we also got the Cadaver!  ::)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 26 February 2021, 13:53:47
Not true, we also got the Cadaver!  ::)

For the deadbeat pilots...
...
I'll show myself out.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 26 February 2021, 16:06:32
For the deadbeat pilots...
...
I'll show myself out.

 xp

You are hereby relegated to cleaning the 'Mech lavatories as penance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 26 February 2021, 16:14:42
xp

You are hereby relegated to cleaning the 'Mech lavatories as penance.
You may use a Gulon C.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 09 March 2021, 20:08:19

Question, is this the best possible R-Team?:

Heavy BattleMech Recovery Vehicle
Man O' War (Gargoyle) D
Man O' War (Gargoyle) D
Elemental BA point
Elemental BA point
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 09 March 2021, 22:38:21
Question, is this the best possible R-Team?:

One thought is that the heavy recovery vehicle will top out at 3MP when carrying anything off field larger than a light mech.  That might argue for a slower, better armored, and harder hitting mech escort, maybe even including 3/5 assaults like the Omen, Bane, Blood Kite, Marauder IIC 7, Rifleman IIC, Stone Rhino, Viking IIC, or Wakazashi.  I did not check these against the Raven MUL, I don’t think any of them have hand actuators for dragging salvage away, and some seem excessive for salvage escort duty.  But there may not be much point investing in heavy cavalry speeds if you’re going to have to slow walk off the field, anyway.

Another thought is that R-teams are not frontline duty and so would probably not be assigned omnimechs like the Gargoyle.  It may even be solahma or dezgra duty and see sucky or dishonorable mech escorts like Corvises, Urbanmech IICs, Hunchback IICs, Pulverizers, Spheroid “C” designs, etc.  No omnis will necessitate the BA walking on or off the field (or riding on the Recovery Vehicle), which may be okay if the mechs and vehicle are walking off at 3MPs.

Last thought is to ditch the slow recovery vehicles and use a Saladin (Clan Cargo) to haul up to 17 tons off field at 8/12 speeds.  Then you could consider some lighter, speedier mech escorts, but the BA will take up some of that cargo space if you forgo omnis.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: wantec on 10 March 2021, 14:28:30
Sounds like a great opportunity to field a Gargoyle K. The hatchet can "help" free any bits that are stuck to make easier to carry away in smaller pieces. Active Probe should help find anyone laying a trap in the salvage or trying to hide as scrap. And it carries enough firepower to fend off most surprises it can't discover on its own.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 10 March 2021, 14:54:42
Sounds like a great opportunity to field a Gargoyle K. The hatchet can "help" free any bits that are stuck to make easier to carry away in smaller pieces. Active Probe should help find anyone laying a trap in the salvage or trying to hide as scrap. And it carries enough firepower to fend off most surprises it can't discover on its own.
We don't have that one on the MUL, (we lose the Gargoyle after the Jihad).
The ravens losing it later is a shame the D config has two arms and the Omnimech has a high carry capacity and can transport the required BA.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 11 March 2021, 15:12:26
I have been taking a closer look at the relevant rules (TW p261 & TO p99).
Having both hand actuators is very important, also bigger 'Mechs really are better.

My previous reason for using OmniMechs is mostly centered around then not having to invest in BA transport, but having a BA transport vehicle (such as an Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport (Std) or Anhur Transport (BA) ) in the same point as the recovery vehicle still makes that R-team Star sized right?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 11 March 2021, 17:00:34
My previous reason for using OmniMechs is mostly centered around then not having to invest in BA transport, but having a BA transport vehicle (such as an Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport (Std) or Anhur Transport (BA) ) in the same point as the recovery vehicle still makes that R-team Star sized right?

Two vehicles to a point, so I’d say yes.  The original write-up for the R-teams should have specified two vehicles, even if it restricted both to recovery/support vehicles.

I’d just have the BA ride on the recovery vehicles.  Even if the BA take up some tonnage on both vehicles during the drive out, you’ll get more salvage with two recovery vehicles than one.  The downside is that I’m not sure what rules, if any, cover BA or infantry riding exposed on a flatbed.  Mechanized BA take up specific hit locations on combat omnivehicles.  I’m not sure how BA hits would be determined if they’re all in the flatbed.

One solution to this rules hole might be the Flatbed Truck from TRO3060.  It supposedly carries six tons of payload in the armored cab, enough for an Elemental point and a couple/few techs.  Like the standard and heavy recovery vehicles, it’s built under combat vehicle construction rules, so it’s not a flimsy support vehicle.  And it’s reasonably mobile at 5/8.  Since the winches that allow recovery vehicles to pull mechs up onto their flatbeds have never been specified in the rules, presumably a Flatbed Truck could be equipped with one at no cost in tonnage or space.  (Otherwise the mechs and Elementals will have to lift the salvage onto the flatbed.)

The downside to Flatbed Trucks is their 10-ton cargo space on the flatbed (outside the armored cab), which limits them to pieces of mechs or lighter mechs, if you’re willing to retreat under reduced speed on the way out.

The Saladin (Clan Cargo) also takes care of the BA mechanization issue by carrying them inside its 17-ton cargo bay.  But unlike the recover vehicles and Flatbed Truck, you can’t stuff even a 20-ton mech inside that cargo bay.  It will only retrieve mech parts (or ultralights!).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 11 March 2021, 21:25:34
Why not a single Tonbo, flanked by a pair of Anhur BA Transports carrying both Resgate BA and those twelve tons of Infantry.

Cause as of 3085, the Tonbo is for sale to the public.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 11 March 2021, 22:13:01

More noodling on R-teams...

The Raven Alliance has access to the JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle through the Periphery General list from the Jihad era forward.  Although slow at 3/5, this is a combat vehicle that could take a hit or two like the old recovery vehicles.  Unlike the old recovery vehicles, it has three lift hoists, so there is no magic as to how it gets salvage off the field.  At 70 tons and with a 33-ton payload bay and those three lift hoists, it could carry up to 88 tons with no MP penalty and up to 138 tons at 2/3 movement.  (Hope I did those calcs right.)  It’s basically a Heavy Recovery Vehicle for the current rules set.

I’d pair two JI-100s with two Omens.  They don’t have hands, but with six lift hoists on the JI-100s, they don’t really need them (unless both JI-100s kick the bucket).  The Omens have the right mobility (3/5/3), survivability (maxed 16.5 tons of armor), and heavy firepower for escorting the JI-100s.  Two large pulse lasers, two LB 10-X ACs, 24 ATM tubes, four ER medium lasers, and four pulse medium lasers create an effective bubble of doom out to 15ish hexes, especially for anything fast that tries to zoom in and strike at the JI-100s.  Everything else will have to stand off and slug it out with the Omens.  And as a secondline, standard, Raven mech design, they just feel like they should be on salvage duty in an R-team, unlike a generic, frontline omni.  To me, the standard “Heavy” R-Team for recovering whole mechs would consist of two Omens, two JI-100s, and BA.

But if you want hands, there are other secondline options around this speed on the Raven MUL, like the Royal Highlander, Pulverizer, and Kodiak 3.

The Elementals will have to ride in the JI-100’s cargo bay, but they’re hardly an imposition in that 33-ton bay.  The Ravens have access to the Golem on their MUL if you want more stand-off capability, and the Surat if you want more solahma flavor in your R-team.  Gnomes, Rabids, Raches, Salamanders (which probably work against salvage), and Coronas, too.

There are other, more recent options for recovery transports, like the JI-50 “Jifty”, the O-66 HMRV “Oppie”, and the J-37 Ordnance Transport.  But they’re all support vehicles that will get disabled/destroyed under fire more easily that the JI-100, so I’d stick with it.  Plus, with the exception of the J-37, they don’t appear on the Raven, Clan General, or Periphery General MULs (although they are manufactured or appear just over the Inner Sphere border).

The Tonbo does appear on the Raven MUL.  As a slowish VTOL support vehicle with BAR armor, I really can’t recommend it for recovery under any combat conditions.  But it’s interesting to imagine a variant “Air” R-Team consisting of two Tonbos escorted by four Gossamers and ten Sylphs.  Easy to destroy, but maybe useful in areas that the JI-100s can’t get to.  (If only there were Clan LAMs...)

Finally, as already mentioned, there are a lot of smaller combat vehicles with cargo bays and flatbeds and faster speeds than the JI-100 that could be matched with equally fast secondline mechs.  Since these vehicles lack lift hoists, the mechs either need hands or there needs to be a house rule on massless winches or similar equipment.  They won’t normally carry off whole mechs but they can retrieve bits and pieces.  Flatbed Trucks at 5/8 or the original BattleMech Recovery Vehicle at 6/9 pair well with Stinger IICs at 6/9/6.  In fact, any number of 5/8/x and 6/9/x secondline Raven mechs like Conjurers, S-Hawk IICs, Griffin IICs, or P-Hawk IICs also work well or better here, but Stinger IICs arguably have the most Raven flavor.  I also like the idea of the Saladin (Clan Cargo) at 8/12 paired with Devils at 7/11, but that Saladin is a Jade Falcon only option on the MUL, so if you’re a stickler, you’re stuck with the Barouche, a 7/11 hover support transport on the Raven MUL.

Putting it all together, here are some sample R-Teams:

Heavy R-Team
Omen
Omen
Golem Point (or Elemental Point)
Golem Point (or Elemental Point)
JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle
JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle

Light R-Team
Stinger IIC
Stinger IIC
Surat Point (or Elemental Point)
Surat Point (or Elemental Point)
BattleMech Recovery Vehicle (or Flatbed Truck - Armor)
BattleMech Recovery Vehicle (or Flatbed Truck - Armor)

Fast R-Team
Devil
Devil
Elemental Point
Elemental Point
Saladin - Clan Cargo (or Barouche)
Saladin - Clan Cargo (or Barouche)

Air R-Team
Gossamer
Gossamer
Gossamer (XL/LB-X)
Gossamer (XL/LB-X)
Sylph (Upgrade) Point
Sylph (Upgrade) Point
Tonbo
Tonbo

Hope this is useful.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 11 March 2021, 22:18:11
Why not a single Tonbo, flanked by a pair of Anhur BA Transports carrying both Resgate BA and those twelve tons of Infantry.

Cause as of 3085, the Tonbo is for sale to the public.

I had similar thoughts, but the R-teams are supposed to work under fire and as BAR armor, VTOL, support vehicles, Tonbos are very easy to blow out of the sky.  (So are Anhurs, Balacs, Gossamers, etc., just less so.)

I could see them used where ground vehicles cannot reach — or when the guns stop firing.  But I can’t recommend them as a standard R-Team option.

IMO — your head canon may vary.


Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 11 March 2021, 22:37:07
Would this include the Barouche? It does have BAR 8, but it also has that sweet 7/11 spot, as well as 24.5 tons cargo...

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 12 March 2021, 00:37:08
Would this include the Barouche? It does have BAR 8, but it also has that sweet 7/11 spot, as well as 24.5 tons cargo...

I included the Barouche as an option in my “Fast” R-Team above (if that’s what you’re asking).  Mentioned it in the text, as well.

I’d prefer the Saladin (Clan Cargo) variant because it’s a real combat vehicle, and the Barouche is not..  But the Saladin is not on a Raven MUL, and the Barouche is.  So if you’re MUL stickler, stick with the Barouche.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 12 March 2021, 11:50:07


When using regular BattleMechs for an R-team it might be a good idea to combine them with Spectre Stealth BA, as those have XMEC and are on our MUL. With the XMEC special they can attach themselves to non-omni units and these BA are fast enough to keep up with heavily loaded recovery vehicles and 'Mechs dragging other 'Mechs away.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 12 March 2021, 15:06:01
When using regular BattleMechs for an R-team it might be a good idea to combine them with Spectre Stealth BA, as those have XMEC and are on our MUL. With the XMEC special they can attach themselves to non-omni units and these BA are fast enough to keep up with heavily loaded recovery vehicles and 'Mechs dragging other 'Mechs away.

I thought about the Spectre.  It’s really only a threat if you commit a Spectre Point to anti-mech attacks.  Otherwise, it’s easy to ignore the plink of the Spectre’s David Light Gauss and focus fire on the recovery vehicles.  In fact, the enemy is even encouraged to do so by the Spectre’s stealth armor.  The Spectre no doubt has above average mobility and mechanization.  But unlike other BA options (Golem, Corona, Surat, Rabid, Elemental), it lacks the stopping power or threat to force the enemy away from the recovery vehicles.

Also, since the Ravens have the Sylph (Enhanced) for their speedy, ground BA, I suspect the Spectre is fielded by Outworlds Alliance specs ops, not Raven Elementals, in R-teams or otherwise.

IMO, of course.  Your head canon and play experience may vary.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 13 March 2021, 16:10:04
These are some great ideas about the R-Teams, guys. Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Given that the Clan Invasion box comes with two Elemental Points, an R-Team is a great unit to put together.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 15 March 2021, 18:33:10

On a related note, what about this Space R-team?:

Kirghiz C
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7
Aerie PA(L) (Standard)
Elemental BA (Space)

It is not a true full star with only one fighter, but two of these can fit in a repurposed Leopard DS.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 15 March 2021, 18:56:18
Confederate C would be better.

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 15 March 2021, 20:55:55
On a related note, what about this Space R-team?:

Kirghiz C

Very capable defensively but very limited cargo space.

The NL-42 Battle Taxi appears on the Periphery General list.  It has 50 tons of space minus the weight of a BA point.  Send two in a recovery vehicle or aerospace point to haul 100 tons of salvage. 

The Mark VIIC Landing Craft appears on the Raven MUL.  Has shorter-ranged defenses but more space at 67 tons.  But not really for boarding operations.  Maybe only for recovering friendly salvage.

The Ravens also have the NL-45 Gunboat, but it has no cargo space beyond its Elemental Point.  There are other small craft that could substitute as recovery vehicles like the K-1C Dropshuttle but they are less capable in cargo and defenses than the NL-42 and Mark VIIC.

The other obvious choice for an aerospace recovery vehicle would be a special purpose dropship like the Octopus or Elephant.  They could house multiple R-Teams.  The Octopus can carry four small craft, 3000 tons of cargo, and a couple hundred crew.  Unfortunately, the Octopus is on the Inner Sphere General MUL, but nowhere else.  Hard to believe the Ravens wouldn’t have the equivalent for pushing their warships in and out of dock.  The Elephant is extinct.

Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7

Although R-teams call for two mechs, their lifting capability serves little purpose in the weightlessness of space.  BA thrusters should be able to maneuver salvage in microgravity (at least in real life), although I don’t know what the aerospace rules say, if anything.  And mechs (and BA) are very poor combatants in space, even these space variants.   I’d use aerospace fighters, instead.  Tempting to use the Kirghiz Cs to carry the BA, but that’s like putting Dire Wolves on salvage duty.  The good, all around secondline fighter is the Ammon, but the Ravens don’t have access, even through a General MUL listing.  So I suppose I’d use the Tyre (fluffed as escorts) or the Issus (native Raven design).

Aerie PA(L) (Standard)
Elemental BA (Space)

There’s an Aerie (Salvage) variant with a salvage arm, which is probably more useful for salvage work than the cutting torch on the Elemental (Space) or the original Aerie, both of which are really marine boarding designs and will do little to protect the operation from attacks in space.  But maybe I’d keep Elemental (Space) Points for boarding and clearing surviving crew on crippled yet unfriendly vessels.

So here’s my take:

Space R-Team (Boarding)
Tyre
Tyre
Elemental (Space) Point
Elemental (Space) Point
NL-42 Battle Taxi
NL-42 Battle Taxi

Space R-Team (Salvage)
Issus
Issus
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Mark VIIC Landing Craft
Mark VIIC Landing Craft

Maybe two such teams operating out of a Raven “Octopus”, maybe with a Carrier to bring the fighters on long-range ops.  Or just modify the Raven “Octopus” to also bring the fighters and forgo the Carrier.

FWIW...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 15 March 2021, 23:52:57
What about using an Intruder Upgrade, a Point of Aero and the 300 tons of it's cargo for two mechbays, and use the Infantry with the Raven Space Marine Points, that's like 75 troopers?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 16 March 2021, 00:05:43
What about just using two fighters and having the spare cubicles for the equipment your team is ostensibly trying to recover?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 March 2021, 12:37:09

In my opinion R-teams do need 'Mechs to count as R-teams, and if fighters aren't used to help transport the BA then just better to leave them out.


Space R-Team (Boarding)
Warhammer IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7
Roc Point
Elemental (Space) Point
Elemental (Space) Point

Space R-Team (Salvage)
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Roc Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point


And leaving the cargo carrying to the dropship.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Guardian11 on 20 March 2021, 21:47:58
An idea for an ilClan era R-Team somewhat inspired by the White Raven entry that I came up with:
White Raven
White Raven 2
Roc point
Gorgon 5 point
Aerie PA(L) (salvage) point with a Savior recovery vehicle.

The Gorgons with their MCSs can ride on the White Ravens, and while the White Ravens may lack some stopping power TCs and pulse lasers mean they can surgically remove parts of Mechs or take down Mechs without damaging vital components and have hands to help carry stuff. The Ravens could likely purchase the Savior from the FedSuns before their current spat, and it has 3 tons of infantry capacity, plus it can haul a Mech or pieces thereof.

Another idea is:
White Raven
Carrion Crow
Roc point
Enhanced Sylph point
Aerie PA(L) (salvage) point with a Savior or standard Battlemech recovery vehicle.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 21 April 2021, 00:34:08
A very quiet Unkindness here...

I was thinking about the WarShip situation again. Obviously, for narrative reasons there can't be dominant WarShip fleets (it's all about the 'Mechs!), but the Ravens still present a problem. Sure, the fleet can lose 70% of its ships to reduce its number and we also saw the narrative tools of 'not enough pilots' and 'not enough shipyards' to ensure that the Ravens could not capitalize on their main advantage. Pocket WarShips also helped to balance the scales.

Ultimately, this has reduced the Ravens' main 'quirk' of WarShips. A little sad, but understandable, I suppose. But narratively, perhaps the purpose for the Raven fleet is to ensure their survival against their powerful neighbours. Going forward, the writers can cite the fleet as a defensive measure that maintains the Alliance's viability long-term.

As long as the fleet doesn't become subject to the ilClan's whims. Blech. Can anyone think of anything else the fleet might be permitted to do, story-wise?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Turaglas on 21 April 2021, 00:39:21
Not really knowledgeable on the Ravens but I have to ask: is their fleet mothballed or can they just use capital weapons as static emplacements?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: AlphaMirage on 21 April 2021, 06:26:23
You could use capital weapons from a space station if you want. I think most of the Ravens Fleet is mothballed since hardly anyone else could even contest the few they have active. I think TPTB are expanding the proto force with Mechs to give the Ravens some reason to exist in this setting as it is
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 21 April 2021, 09:24:48
You could use capital weapons from a space station if you want. I think most of the Ravens Fleet is mothballed since hardly anyone else could even contest the few they have active. I think TPTB are expanding the proto force with Mechs to give the Ravens some reason to exist in this setting as it is

Well, it's clear that the Ravens will never increase their holdings by more than a few planets, so conquering won't be their purpose.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 21 April 2021, 09:28:18
Call the navy the ultimate defence. Difficult to invade if all your dropships get burned up before even managing to land their precious mechs. Better to just head to easier to invade pastures.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 21 April 2021, 17:13:21
Pocket Warships a plenty, aerospace designs maximized with aero heavy forces, ProtoMech improvements to capitalize on the tech, and Warships that remain to threaten the other Warships that remain: the Capellans with their Feng Huang, the Horses who may or may not be angry, and potentially any home Clans/ WoB.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 24 April 2021, 00:16:51
Call the navy the ultimate defence. Difficult to invade if all your dropships get burned up before even managing to land their precious mechs. Better to just head to easier to invade pastures.

Not to mention that the Alliance has more pastures than any real valued targets. Nothing to see here, move along. Except Farmer Yang's sweet pickle relish. Blue ribbon prize at the Alpheratz Country Fair!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 05 May 2021, 15:36:22
Lots of locally sourced protein for the troops.  Even a  great Space Armada jumps on its stomach.   
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 05 May 2021, 16:12:10
Maybe the Clan can raise the needed funds to enlarge the touman by loading up our ships with our agricultural goods and sell them in the neighboring systems:
"We will not blast you from orbit if you buy our delicious, farm fresh meat and produce.  It's completely organic and pesticide-free!"
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 05 May 2021, 18:36:59
Raven Alliance Bake Sale

With a busy year ahead for our young warriors, the Khans and Galaxy Commanders have been busy baking delicious baked goods for sale. Sterling McKenna made some Nanaimo bars! All proceeds go towards new OmniMechs, as well as new soccer balls for the girls' team.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 05 May 2021, 20:36:36
I could go for a batch of Nanaimo bars!  Somebody invite the Ravens to Terra!  (I had to look them up, those look really good!)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 05 May 2021, 21:00:48
I could go for a batch of Nanaimo bars!  Somebody invite the Ravens to Terra!  (I had to look them up, those look really good!)

They are indeed! Nanaimo bars and buttertarts!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 05 May 2021, 21:32:42
That's what Ravens mean when you say "we have cookies".

 ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 06 May 2021, 00:26:18
That's what Ravens mean when you say "we have cookies".

 ;D

We have white chocolate chip macadamia, we have oatmeal, we have Galedon raisin... What? You don't like raisin?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 06 May 2021, 00:32:41
I prefer White Choco-Chip'd Macadamia Oatmeal Raisin'd cookies if you please!

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Sharpnel on 06 May 2021, 00:37:00
Me, too.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 06 May 2021, 19:48:23
A fleet of WarShips CookieShips are on their way.

Sincerely,

Star Captain of Cookies.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 06 May 2021, 21:09:46
A fleet of WarShips CookieShips are on their way.

Sincerely,

Star Captain of Cookies.

Star Admiral Monster of Clan Cookies in command!

(https://media.tenor.com/images/a92598d9f4d6af6c43882c0978ed4242/tenor.gif)

When Cookie Invasion??

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 06 May 2021, 22:42:51
So random thought I wanted to ask. What is everyone's preferred Triad composition?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 07 May 2021, 10:42:09
You know, I have never used ASF before (I know, heresy). I have no idea what to choose for the ASF Star in a Triad. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 19 June 2021, 15:31:51
Guess who got the Kingfisher.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 19 June 2021, 16:36:24
Guess who got the Kingfisher.

Makes me happy :)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 20 June 2021, 06:27:25
It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 20 June 2021, 06:29:46
It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
Yep, it seems that the Ravens have many Mediums and Assaults.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 20 June 2021, 07:53:21
It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.

Gotta export something ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Zeruel on 20 June 2021, 14:25:12
It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.

well the Ravens were the original creators of the Kingfisher...I always felt the RecGuides were going to give it to either the Ravens or the Bears, and with the trade relationships the two Clans must have, either producing it now probably means the other gets to have it just as much
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 20 June 2021, 14:41:00
It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.

It's a 4/6 SFE, while the Deimos is 3/5[6] XLE and the Omen is a 3/5/3 XLE.  The Kingfisher is a durable and reliable anchor compared to the more fragile and overall slower other two.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 June 2021, 15:05:35
Gotta export something ;)

Hopefully on the open market like the Stormcrow.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 July 2021, 05:18:53
It is kind of a neat coincidence that my two favorite Clan Mechs, the Stormcrow and Kingfisher were both produced by the Ravens
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 July 2021, 05:37:29
How are the unkindness doing these days?

Now things are starting to inch back towards normality here (although i'm isolating at the moment) we are looking to get a campaign started, as part of this it has been decided that I can do basic refits on the inner sphere mechs I own to use as Alliance Militia machines, the first two of which can be found here - https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/raven-alliance-militia-refits/ i'd appreciate any feedback.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 25 July 2021, 10:04:40
For flavour I'd leave in some IS weaponry or IS specific equipment. I feel like the Wolverine would be scrapped, because, you know, WOLVERINE. Or handwave it becoming an "antique Conjurer". That might work.

But overall, looks good.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 July 2021, 10:19:10
Thanks for the feedback.

With the Wolverines i'm thinking the Raven part of the Alliance would look the other way if the Alliance part is using a couple of mechs in the Militia forces.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 25 July 2021, 12:50:04
Instead of scrapping the Wolverines, slap on some clan equipment and rename it "Angry Badger" or something like that.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 July 2021, 14:56:09
There's an idea, how about the Kestrel? Can go alongside the Merlin then.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 25 July 2021, 16:02:35
There is already a vtol with that name.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 25 July 2021, 16:04:17
Shouldn't be a problem, there are two mechs called Gladiator.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Scotty on 25 July 2021, 16:30:25
We also very recently had the Lightning BattleMech debut, while the Lightning hovercraft has existed since the late 80s and the Lightning ASF since TRO 3057 in the mid-90s.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 25 July 2021, 19:15:25
‘Tis true.  I would want to go with a close relative of the Wolverine. Honey Badgers are pretty fearsome.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 25 July 2021, 19:25:16
Indeed.  I've heard that Honey Badgers just don't care.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 25 July 2021, 22:17:36
Ermine? Fisher? Stoat?

Heaps of great weasels.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 25 July 2021, 22:25:21
A marmut, mayhap.  Just having marmuts pretty much says you believe in Nothing, thanks to some movie, I guess...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 26 July 2021, 07:09:10
Honey Badger?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 28 July 2021, 17:13:27
For the longest time I had the Wiki page for Wolverine Genus and other related species bookmarked. I was working on Wolverine mechs and vehicles (most are in my sig). Been testing a couple in my local games too, and the Polecat works pretty well.

But alas that’s a bit off topic. The Ravens use the Pulverizer in its current forces so I’m not sure if they would label the Wolverine (OG) differently or be like this is the Conjurer 1IS.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 31 July 2021, 12:13:52
Quote
The ilClan: Table of Contents

Good that its finally coming out, but can't see anything obvious for us.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 31 July 2021, 15:45:51
It's a book about a fight for one world.  The Ravens weren't in this battle.  Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 31 July 2021, 17:22:42
It's a book about a fight for one world.  The Ravens weren't in this battle.  Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.

 I choose to believe it's a artic alliance between the raven's,bear's and newly revived ice hellion.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 01 August 2021, 07:47:47
The Ice Hellions merged with the Scorpions a century ago and things are on the upswing for them in the Scorpion Empire.  Why leave?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 01 August 2021, 12:22:08
The Ice Hellions merged with the Scorpions a century ago and things are on the upswing for them in the Scorpion Empire.  Why leave?
Because our factions aren't doing much and untill it comes out I choose to live in a cocoon of delusion.
But why leave? To create the most awesome unified off blue camo ever seen! Think of it Trothkin!!
 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 01 August 2021, 13:22:17
Join us. We have Firemoths.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kitsune413 on 01 August 2021, 13:47:38
It's a book about a fight for one world.  The Ravens weren't in this battle.  Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.

I feel that though. This is the first book to push things forward in the Ilclan period... Maybe not as much of a sting if the Horses hadn't got a two page spread.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 01 August 2021, 23:08:08
Hell's Horses makes sense since they are set up to be the primary Clan antagonist to the Wolves after the conquest of Terra. I suspect their stuff will be their plots afterwards.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kitsune413 on 04 August 2021, 23:22:59
Hell's Horses makes sense since they are set up to be the primary Clan antagonist to the Wolves after the conquest of Terra. I suspect their stuff will be their plots afterwards.

I think they've got a book coming up soon. Since they're falling into the Jade Falcons Occupation Zone vacuum or what not.

We'll know more Friday I guess.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 05 August 2021, 01:36:15
I'm guessing we'll be mostly involved in the Drac-FedRat conflict, but there may not be too much on that for a while.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 August 2021, 14:22:29
Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 06 August 2021, 14:44:47
Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
He is up there with Hanse Davion, and I blame Hanse for the Jihad.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 06 August 2021, 14:45:05
Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
This gonna turn into another crow incident?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 August 2021, 14:55:18
This gonna turn into another crow incident?

You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?

Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 06 August 2021, 15:09:09
You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?

Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.
As zoidberg would say,why not both!? ^_^
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 August 2021, 20:50:05
As zoidberg would say,why not both!? ^_^

Both is always the best option :)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 06 August 2021, 21:14:51
I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 06 August 2021, 21:22:03
I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.

His "genius" is of dubious provenance.

But yes, I'd much rather have visible Ravens who are actual Ravens.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2021, 21:31:07
I don't know if it'll be Tamar rising, but hopefully the Ravens and Ghost Bears will get involved some dust ups soon. They've been sitting on the sidelines for awhile.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 06 August 2021, 21:32:03
I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.
Who is the most visible Bear? Incredibly awesome but  never seen before. Now conveniently dead. Hopefully we get some backfill.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Angrii on 06 August 2021, 21:40:14
His "genius" is of dubious provenance.

But yes, I'd much rather have visible Ravens who are actual Ravens.

Perhaps the true genius here was behind the scenes; making Haake believe he was a genius and to perpetuate that myth, thereby pawning him off on the Wolves as an albatross well rid of... If I choose to believe it, you can't make me stop!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kitsune413 on 06 August 2021, 21:44:37
I'm not sure that I expect it, but hopefully now that the Ilclan thing is over some of the other Clans can get some time to shine. Clan Sea Fox just got to throw mechs at things, apparently the good battlemech designs were just produced, not developed by us. Blech.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 06 August 2021, 22:02:05
Who is the most visible Bear? Incredibly awesome but  never seen before. Now conveniently dead. Hopefully we get some backfill.

Believe me, I was thinking of Ramiel Bekker when I wrote the previous post. Re-reading Hour of the Wolf last night, I also thought of Khan Dalia Bekker and her predilection for napping on the job.

That being said, I do understand that every faction can't always look good and have heroes. There are supporters of every faction! There will always be someone disappointed by the nuffies representing their chosen group. The limelight will change eventually.

I don't like the way that hero characters were given to the Wolves from the Bears and Ravens, but I guess the same thing happened with Ragnar Magnusson conveniently going to the Bears (though a bad thing such as that happening to Clan Wolf-in-Exile at that time seemed rare enough). I'm glad that a chapter in Hour of the Wolf was devoted to Khan Sterling McKenna mentioning that the Clan will not simply be a doormat for the ilClan. They will work for the interests of the Alliance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GreekFire on 06 August 2021, 22:19:38
For the Bears Magnusson was one of the "new generation" to be introduced during the 3130s version of the Outreach Summit scene in Sword of Sedition. He sticks around for a small bit of one other novel, then kind of disappears.

It'd be pretty easy to grab onto him again to pull him into the limelight. As it stands, he's currently the only younger individual presented in that novel who's never gotten any focus in a novel or sourcebook. And unlike Bekker, he isn't dead.

As for the Ravens? Yeah, ain't a whole lot preexisting there except for the Khan herself.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jellico on 06 August 2021, 22:27:43
Yeah, that first generation of novel characters really missed out. I have been waiting for Magnusson to show up for years. I had to double check Ramiel to make sure he wasn't Magnusson (whose first name I am not going to be bothered to look up on principle).

Stirling McKenna is better positioned just because of her rank. Khan's show up in source books doing stuff. Lower ranks not so much. Again, she is someone who had story hooks then got left behind.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kitsune413 on 07 August 2021, 11:14:06
It would be nice if more Mech Aces / Ristars showed up in the fiction. Just so Battletech nations had their champions.

That's tougher for the Clans though. If you're the best warrior then why aren't you the leader?

Wolf has always had its Natasha and Anastasia Kerensky's though.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Foxx Ital on 07 August 2021, 11:21:51
It would be nice if more Mech Aces / Ristars showed up in the fiction. Just so Battletech nations had their champions.

That's tougher for the Clans though. If you're the best warrior then why aren't you the leader?

Wolf has always had its Natasha and Anastasia Kerensky's though.

You can be a great warrior and suck at politics. Or you can be so great a warrior you dont need politics and asa taney your way. My assumption is we need more fiction to get more heros. So yay all the new fiction!!
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 07 August 2021, 12:18:05
You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?

Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.

I always thought that was stupid. How can you Trial for a whole Bloodname? I don't know of any other times this happened. I always took that as the biggest insult to all the injuries the Wars of Reaving delivered us.

You can be a great warrior and suck at politics. Or you can be so great a warrior you dont need politics and asa taney your way. My assumption is we need more fiction to get more heros. So yay all the new fiction!!

This is especially true in our Clan where political ability matters more than in most other Clans.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 11 August 2021, 05:44:02
I find the whole Crow reaving thing to be a bit far fetched. I mean, were all of the Crow warriors killed as well? (Alberto Crow still survives in the Jihad unfortunately, so clearly no.) So, once the Ravens were in the IS, and not in the Homeworlds, who would stop them from starting new Crow sibkos again on Dante or Alpheratz? If you are threatened with Annihilation either way by the Homeworlds Clan Council, then you might as well breed more Crow sibkos anyway. Not from Alberto, of course. 8)
o
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Generic Clanner 24601 on 11 August 2021, 21:06:25
The War of Reaving book does state that the Crow and Shu lines were corrupted and while they took samples from living members, they were restricted paternal parents only. So, it does sound like they did try.

But it's annoying in the first place. If this was possible, why didn't the Jade Falcons find a Kerenesky to challenge for the whole line? I'm sure in the history of the Clans, there has been one Kerensky Galaxy Commander that the Falcons were sure they could take on.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 12 August 2021, 17:40:09
But it's annoying in the first place. If this was possible, why didn't the Jade Falcons find a Kerenesky to challenge for the whole line? I'm sure in the history of the Clans, there has been one Kerensky Galaxy Commander that the Falcons were sure they could take on.
They've got one in Quinn Kerensky, so it should be doable at least.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 12 August 2021, 20:13:54
They've got one in Quinn Kerensky, so it should be doable at least.

That’s just the person. Not the rights to their genetic legacy/breeding rights
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: ANS Kamas P81 on 12 August 2021, 22:08:36
I meant that as a suggestion to follow up with Quinn's bloodline and genetic legacy, instead of looking for some other Kerensky to trial for.  "You already have a Kerensky in the Clan, get her legacy to go with."  That kind of thing.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 12 August 2021, 22:49:36
Shame it never happened.   I'd love to see Pryde/Kerensky progeny. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 18 August 2021, 19:06:16
I wonder if any new Bloodname lineages have been started in the RA.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 18 August 2021, 19:08:47
The Ravens are pretty adverse to strangers in their midst. 

That said, it would be a truly awesome feat for someone to achieve. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 18 August 2021, 19:19:48
I wonder if any new Bloodname lineages have been started in the RA.

Avellar maybe?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 18 August 2021, 20:36:50
The thought stems mostly from the details on the Great Readings - namely, that new Bloodnames could be introduced during the proceedings and certainly has occurred.

For the Ravens, we're on the edge of the action (literally), so I can't see too many details. Neither has TPTB shown any indication for the nitty gritty on new Bloodnames. It is best to keep things relatively open to avoid future fiction issues.

Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see if a new Bloodname emerges to help with the relatively few Bloodhouses that are intact in the RA.

Avellar maybe?

That one would make the most sense, rather than just some random McGurk or Hennimore. But it seems like the most warlike Avellar (Maya) was in service with the Republic and the family in general is treated as figureheads.

But, then again, excellent story idea for an Avellar who becomes a great warrior! The status quo can't stay the status quo forever.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 26 August 2021, 06:33:42
Was reading through one of the old Snow Raven threads and just found out the Unkind Ness forum was down. I have been away from the nest for a Long time.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 26 August 2021, 17:17:47
Never knew most of those guys too well…. But I know of the forum and I’m ashamed to say if they knew me from then it was in my bad days as a gamer.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 26 August 2021, 18:13:11
Never knew most of those guys too well…. But I know of the forum and I’m ashamed to say if they knew me from then it was in my bad days as a gamer.

 :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown:

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 August 2021, 16:05:32
I've got to say I do miss talking to various people from there, especially Spike, hope she's doing okay.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 12 September 2021, 16:23:23
I've got to say I do miss talking to various people from there, especially Spike, hope she's doing okay.

Spike is still out there, keeping watch against the Tetaetae menace in the Deep Periphery.  8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 12 September 2021, 16:43:07
Good to hear.

In other news, I nominate myself to be the official Scorpion Ambassador to the Raven Alliance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 13 September 2021, 13:34:09
Periphery Clans do need to stick together.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: CJC070 on 13 September 2021, 14:20:59
Periphery Clans do need to stick together.

And the Scorpions could be a strong source of mechwarriors and elementals with the completion of the Hanseatic Crusade. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 13 September 2021, 15:53:11
Spike is still out there, keeping watch against the Tetaetae menace in the Deep Periphery.  8)

Excellent, if you're still in touch with her say hi for me.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 14 September 2021, 11:26:51
Excellent, if you're still in touch with her say hi for me.

We talked back in April. She's working at a casino, and doing well, all things considered. I will pass on your regards.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 26 September 2021, 15:24:23
We talked back in April. She's working at a casino, and doing well, all things considered. I will pass on your regards.  :thumbsup:

Thanks Crow.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 27 September 2021, 00:50:44
Was reading through one of the old Snow Raven threads and just found out the Unkind Ness forum was down. I have been away from the nest for a Long time.

Well I had Albatross handle the hosting and the forum itself, when he passed, all of that lapsed. That's why The Unkindness went under. I was also a bit stressed out from school to find alternatives to keep the forum online. Subtext: there was also some weird drama on the forum and I wanted a break. But also, that was over 10 years ago. You just noticed?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 27 September 2021, 01:28:33
Well I had Albatross handle the hosting and the forum itself, when he passed, all of that lapsed. That's why The Unkindness went under. I was also a bit stressed out from school to find alternatives to keep the forum online. Subtext: there was also some weird drama on the forum and I wanted a break. But also, that was over 10 years ago. You just noticed?

I had been away for a while when it stopped, about that point I was being worked quite illegally for over a year and finally switched jobs. I always meant to go back and check again but never really had the time. Wow 10 years.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 October 2021, 03:21:09
Interesting to see we get the Iron Cheetah in the new rec guide.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 16 October 2021, 06:07:33
Interesting to see we get the Iron Cheetah in the new rec guide.
It fits quite well in the RA assault line up, so I am quite happy about it.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 16 October 2021, 06:40:04
Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 16 October 2021, 08:17:08
Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?

I mean, ravens are scavengers...

Also, the Jaguars and Ravens had ties through the Howell bloodhouse.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 October 2021, 10:42:36
Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?

The Stormcrow was always a Raven design though wasn't it?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Empyrus on 16 October 2021, 10:51:12
The Stormcrow was always a Raven design though wasn't it?
Yes*.
The Omni-Corvis the Stormcrow is based on is a Hell's Horses design but i would say the Stormcrow is different enough to be called a true Raven design.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 17 October 2021, 06:36:33
I know it is not accurate but I am calling the Scorpions the Star League in Exile. That is all.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 17 October 2021, 07:53:40
I know it is not accurate but I am calling the Scorpions the Star League in Exile. That is all.

I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 17 October 2021, 09:21:41
I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.

Actually with the Adders in charge I could see that.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Drewbacca on 17 October 2021, 09:24:08
Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through. I can't wait to see what the Ravens do when the ilClan fallout starts speeding up.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 October 2021, 09:36:34
I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.
Look up synonyms of Snake Pit.....
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 17 October 2021, 17:24:29
Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through.
When you are sitting around out in the middle of nowhere, there are fewer people to shoot at you.  In comparison, Terra is the heart of all the action, and anyone who holds it gets squashed sooner or later: the Terran Alliance, Terran Hegemony, House Aramis, Comstar, Word of Blake, Republic of the Sphere...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Empyrus on 17 October 2021, 17:40:10
Should be noted the Ravens have been suffering raids from the Draconis Combine and are gearing up with expectation of Inner Sphere wars reaching them eventually. Just sayin' the Ravens may not be that uninvolved anymore soon.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: GuyIncognito on 17 October 2021, 17:41:02
Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through.
Palmyra?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 October 2021, 18:17:08
Palmyra?

Pah, that's just speculation! ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 October 2021, 18:26:39
Should be noted the Ravens have been suffering raids from the Draconis Combine
You mean that those weren't DC troops volunteering to be practice targets?

 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 17 October 2021, 18:40:08
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 October 2021, 19:38:26
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 17 October 2021, 19:57:55
Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.

I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 17 October 2021, 20:27:23
I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back.  :thumbsup:

Nah, his kind of "genius" the Ravens can do without.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 18 October 2021, 00:49:07
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 18 October 2021, 09:48:38
Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?

Unless we get told different later I would assume it is the Khans escort to meet the IlKhan.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 27 October 2021, 00:34:30
Thoughts on the composition of the Alliance Militia Corps after (and briefly before) the creation of the Raven Alliance?

They don't get heaps of attention at all, being background actors in a background faction with no canon paint schemes. And that's okay! But I wonder if the 'Mech composition is being portrayed with irregularity - namely, as technologically backwards - while there is contradicting information.



First, there is a mention of the Alliance Grenadiers having a number of Star League-designed 'Mechs (salvage from the Star League days) in Field Manual: Periphery. The MUL entry for the Outworlds Alliance does not show much evidence of this, but I know the MUL reflects a ready availability, whereas the Grenadier 'Mechs are salvage - much as Kurita and Davion salvage is not widely represented in the Alliance MUL. Though obviously downgraded through the Succession Wars, what Star League 'Mechs do you think could be possessed by the Alliance by 3025 and beyond?

Second, the 2nd Long Road Legion is noted as having several Clint IICs (Field Manual Updates). Again, not found in the MUL, but we have ready evidence of a number of Raven contributions to the AMC even before the Raven Alliance was formed. The Stinger IIC was designed for them during the Jihad and the new Devil had been distributed to the Outworlders as early as the 3080s. Is it possible that other secondline units were transferred to the AMC?

Thirdly, in Field Manual: 3085, the RAT entries for any Raven Alliance secondline units (i.e., AMC only) is filled with Clan designs alongside older Inner Sphere models. Although I know that the RAT is used for convenience purposes for gameplay and not for representation of unit distribution, it is conspicuous that the Raven Alliance RAT explicitly provides a stark contrast in generating the OmniMech-dominated Raven clusters and highly-mixed forces for the AMC. Does this support my second point at all?

Fourthly, the advanced lasers of Lushann Industries Limited were being traded to Robinson for BattleMechs (Handbook: Major Periphery State and Field Manual Updates). Robinson produced some high tech 'Mechs, including the advanced BL-12-KNT Black Knight. This would suggest an infusion of modern equipment alongside the twenty-four Hercules purchased from the Free Worlds League.



What does this mean? There are multiple streams infusing Star League, Davion, and Clan 'Mechs into the Alliance Militia Corps. With only four battalions of 'Mechs, even a trickle would radically alter the perceived IntroTech nature of the AMC. Besides the four streams that I have described, the Outworlds Alliance produces Merlins, Night Hawks, and Bombardiers. Poor leadership, tactics, supplies, and pilots (along with limited numbers) in the AMC preventing them from being effective? Sure. But maybe Outworlds Alliance 'Mech technology is actually meeting or even exceeding that of neighbouring Inner Sphere states during the Jihad/post-Jihad eras.


Note: I fully accept the possibility that I could be wrong. There is potential for misinformation, lack of information, misdirection, or misinterpretation.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Jaim Magnus on 27 October 2021, 10:14:23
I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.

But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: nova_dew on 27 October 2021, 18:08:09
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

It's dated sometime in March 3151 so it's after the Wolves attack but before the ilClan trial, maybe Alaric did leak something to all the clans?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 28 October 2021, 15:41:40
I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.

But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)

On the plus side, the new OmniMechs (War Crow and Carrion Crow) indicate a significant build-up of Raven frontline forces. And hey, maybe the Ravens will actually use the WarShips for once.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 26 November 2021, 21:38:04
Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 27 November 2021, 00:09:20
Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.

I don’t know of any canon reference to an R-team being anything other than two mechs, two points of battle armor, and a team of technicians with their recovery vehicles.

I think the question is whether you have the protos replace the mechs or the battle armor.  I could argue either one.  But I would presume that protomechs replace battlemechs, not battle armor.  But no battlemechs, especially omnimechs, could also leave the battle armor without a ride unless you put them on the recovery vehicles.

Unless someone else knows of a reference, I think this is your call.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 27 November 2021, 05:09:44
Maybe as a part of an S-Team?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 02 December 2021, 23:00:26
I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 03 December 2021, 01:38:56
I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?

Maybe someone else will have a reference, but I don’t know of anything in the canon that answers these questions definitively.

My head canon is that R-teams are temporary formations and thus have the same paint schemes as their parent clusters and galaxies because they’re formed from them.  If R-teams were separate, permanent formations, there’d be a lot of mechs and Elementals standing around waiting to perform guard duty for battlefield recovery operations, which seems like a waste of war machines and talent in the least wasteful Clan.  It makes more sense that some points in a cluster or galaxy cross-train with techs so that the cluster can activate R-teams as needed for recovery as a battle winds down.

I would also guess that R-team duty is viewed as beneath the best warriors in any given  cluster or galaxy.  So I would imagine it goes to the secondline clusters in a galaxy or the secondline mech trinaries/binaries (if any) in a frontline cluster.  Since R-team duty prefers/requires that mechs have hands, that would also seem to weigh more heavily in favor of Clan secondline battlemechs over Clan omnimechs, which often lack hands in various configurations.

But again, unless someone else has a canon reference, this is up to your head canon.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 04 December 2021, 08:05:28
Again, I appreciate your time and input.

That's a very good point about their potential nature as ad-hoc formations vs standing. I guess I had considered them to be specially-trained standing formations, but it makes much more sense that they'd spend most of the battle fighting in their component Stars before being detached for some Isorla. Would also make it a lot easier to get such groups included in a typical bid as well. I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?

The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage. Unless the Ravens ensure they have plenty of Salamanders or maybe use Sylphs as the two Points of BA, it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Natasha Kerensky on 04 December 2021, 12:08:00
I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?

I would guess that the battle armor elements of the R-team guard the isorla while the mechs go back to base (or behind lines or whatever) to escort the techs to the isorla.  Or maybe the battle armor and mechs guard the isorla, and the techs are expected to make their way to the isorla unescorted.

But either way, I can’t imagine that the techs and their recovery vehicles are exposed to combat on the line or mapsheet or whatever until there is secured isorla.

Quote
The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage.

The operational scenarios above sorta takes care of this.  You peel off a couple Elemental points from your cluster to guard the isorla, so the Elementals don’t go anywhere and it doesn’t matter for the R-team operation whether the associated mechs are omnis or standards.

It will matter afterwards if the Elementals are expected to rejoin the cluster and it has moved on.  But maybe secondline APCs/IFVs can take care of this if the mechs are standards.

Quote
it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).

There’s just no a lot to go on with respect to R-teams in the canon.  I think you’re free to innovate.

I wrote up this TO&E for a Raven Solahma formation.  At the bottom, I did attach  standing R-teams using Spheroid mechs refit with Clan weapons from the canon.  (And they don’t conform to the two mech/two BA point standard.)  But I think R-teams being temporary, cross-trained formations makes more sense.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/clan-snow-raven-xi-penal-solahma-black-ops-the-unkindness-the-gilded-cage/msg1453167/#msg1453167 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/clan-snow-raven-xi-penal-solahma-black-ops-the-unkindness-the-gilded-cage/msg1453167/#msg1453167)

Upstream in this thread, I think there’s a discussion of R-teams for salvage in space, which may also be useful.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 06 December 2021, 15:29:11
Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.

I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 06 December 2021, 15:30:51
I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.

Yes more Leviathan IIIs
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 18 January 2022, 09:51:07
Speck is asking for fan-funding interest in an IWM version of the Raven Gossamer VTOL:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-financing-2-0/fin-finance-2-0-questions/450/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-financing-2-0/fin-finance-2-0-questions/450/)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Negatorxx on 13 February 2022, 20:22:10
Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.

what is an R team?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 13 February 2022, 21:04:13
Recovery Team. 

IIRC, it's a unit of warriors and techs who can move to quickly salvage/claim Isorla during a trial or battle.  Unique to Clan Snow Raven.

Things like this help to give them the "scavenger" image among their enemy Clans back in the Kerensky Cluster.  But unfairly so, because the Ravens are simply the least wasteful of the Clans.

They work while under fire at times.  Thus the warrior presence.

They can also recover dropships on the ground or in space, and even warships if time allows.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 14 February 2022, 08:09:21
Recovery Team. 

IIRC, it's a unit of warriors and techs who can move to quickly salvage/claim Isorla during a trial or battle.  Unique to Clan Snow Raven.


They also trained non-Clan Alliance Military Corps (AMC) units to utilize R-Teams as of 3067 (according to Field Manual -Updates).
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 14 February 2022, 10:01:38
Semantics at this point.  They are both the Raven Alliance.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Negatorxx on 14 February 2022, 10:27:41
So how are the ravens currently employing their military?  Elite clan galaxies, with protos mixed in,  regular/green AMC with armor?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 14 February 2022, 13:34:19
Not a lot of details about that at the moment.  Some of the other Raven posters might know more, though.

One can only hope the Ravens get more love in the future.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 14 February 2022, 15:15:15
The Raven Galaxies are largely frontline with strong experience levels and rely largely on OmniMechs. Those numbers have dropped, unfortunately, since the Jihad, but Khan McKenna has planned a series of new OmniMechs to act as the backbone for a building touman (War Crow, Carrion Crow). The Galaxies have been the primary offensive and defensive units of the Raven Alliance.

ProtoMechs have proliferated, although they and Elementals have also been used as auxiliary units to support the AMC. Certain units, such as the Stinger IIC and the Devil, have also provided the Alliance Ground Defence Arm (AGDA) with Clan technology, but the process of upgrading the AGDA has taken decades to see any significant progress. It largely remains a garrison force to backup the Clan forces and is not highly experienced.

The aerospace regiments remain the strongest part of the AMC. They can act as strong secondline forces to the Raven fleet, which has activated a number of its WarShips amidst the growing conflicts. The largest concern has been about providing enough pilots to meet the demands of the carrier WarShips, but I anticipate that this problem has been solved in the last in-game decade.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Known Glitch on 14 February 2022, 18:43:39
Semantics at this point.  They are both the Raven Alliance.

True, missed the quote with the 3145 part in the original question.  Next time coffee, then post.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: rebs on 14 February 2022, 21:58:05
True, missed the quote with the 3145 part in the original question.  Next time coffee, then post.

No prob, it's all close enough. 
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 21 March 2022, 11:55:21
Here's a question for y'all: if you were to design a Raven Glider Protomech, what would you give it for a loadout?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Maingunnery on 21 March 2022, 13:00:33
Here's a question for y'all: if you were to design a Raven Glider Protomech, what would you give it for a loadout?
Light TAG + Light AP.

High-speed recon.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 03 May 2022, 00:25:58
Looks like we'll likely get a plastic White Raven in the upcoming Kickstarter (or Black Python, if you prefer).

It's just so hard to swallow the high BV of the newer tech! 2900 for the White Raven at 75 tonnes. That being said, the Ravens never really had faction-specific 'Mechs until they moved to the Inner Sphere and became relevant to the plot. Instead of the usual raft of Timber Wolves, Novas, and Warhawks, I really want to field a Star that is absolutely, clearly a Snow Raven Star - including our faction-specific technology in the Ferro-Lamellor, too!

I would love to see the War Crow and Carrion Crow appear in plastic, since they were in the Rec Guides. Plus, a Deimos would be lovely...
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: jimdigris on 03 May 2022, 15:51:25
Now we can field entire stars of mechs with "crow" in the name. :D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Ghaz on 03 May 2022, 15:58:58
Looks like we'll likely get a plastic White Raven in the upcoming Kickstarter (or Black Python, if you prefer).

It's just so hard to swallow the high BV of the newer tech! 2900 for the White Raven at 75 tonnes. That being said, the Ravens never really had faction-specific 'Mechs until they moved to the Inner Sphere and became relevant to the plot. Instead of the usual raft of Timber Wolves, Novas, and Warhawks, I really want to field a Star that is absolutely, clearly a Snow Raven Star - including our faction-specific technology in the Ferro-Lamellor, too!

I would love to see the War Crow and Carrion Crow appear in plastic, since they were in the Rec Guides. Plus, a Deimos would be lovely...

I doubt we'll see a plastic War Crow with IWM making a metal version, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong and see both it and the Carrion Crow in a future Force Pack.
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 03 May 2022, 16:33:39
Now we can field entire stars of mechs with "crow" in the name. :D

You rang? 8)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: truetanker on 04 May 2022, 20:05:19
So five Points of Export (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Crow), eh?

TT
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Nibs on 04 May 2022, 21:15:54
So five Points of Export (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Crow), eh?

TT

Hmm, how many Gauss Rifles could we slap on those?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Demongirl on 12 May 2022, 13:09:16
It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 May 2022, 13:45:42
It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎

Hey DG, long time no see, how the jolly devil are you?
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Tyler Jorgensson on 12 May 2022, 20:28:36
It occurred to me the other day: with the Pulverizer in production by the Ravens I’m surprised that their weren’t more Trials against them because of the Wolverine connection. I know they mentioned some in the TRO: GC write-up but still. Still a fantastic mech :)
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 13 May 2022, 17:45:07
It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎

Good heavens, you're alive  ;D
Title: Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
Post by: Crow on 13 May 2022, 17:46:27
It occurred to me the other day: with the Pulverizer in production by the Ravens I’m surprised that their weren’t more Trials against them because of the Wolverine connection. I know they mentioned some in the TRO: GC write-up but still. Still a fantastic mech :)

Kingfisher is better  8)