BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Jaim Magnus on 03 May 2017, 20:55:32
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I have taken the liberty of beginning the new thread, muah hahahaha!
Continue any and all discussions.
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I claim this thread for Clan Hell's Horses! Feel our hooves on your claws, our equine breath on your beaks as we trample all over your territory as our personal pastures! With what verbatim do you spur with, quiaff?
TT ;D
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Push the button, Jaim.
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The shiny red button is a lie.
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I claim this thread for Clan Hell's Horses! Feel our hooves on your claws, our equine breath on your beaks as we trample all over your territory as our personal pastures! With what verbatim do you spur with, quiaff?
TT ;D
And I claim this thread in the name of the freedom loving people of the Alliance who are fed up with the Raven dictators and sick and tired of them making our cows milk curdle...
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Muerte a los opresores del Clan! Viva la Alianza!
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I for one welcome our new raven overlords.
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Pressing it!!!
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Pressing it!!!
Thank you.
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Yessss....do just that.
(http://www.dcrblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/shiny-red-button.gif)
Mwahahahah~
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(http://ytimg.googleusercontent.com/vi/Ql9G_6S-dGE/mqdefault.jpg)
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I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...
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I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...
Huh. You'd think that's be a thing. Like, someone doing a version of a Skinner Box or something. Wasn't one of the early Skinner Boxes with Pigeons or something like that? Why not Corvids?
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Just finished reading 3145:Updates. The biggest surprise is that the Crossbow is on the 7 position for the Raven Alliance RAT
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I'm really disappointed I couldn't find a gif of a raven hitting a button after a 5 second google search...
I couldn't find anything under crows either, but this picture might make a nice cluster insignia.
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Just finished reading 3145:Updates. The biggest surprise is that the Crossbow is on the 7 position for the Raven Alliance RAT
Wait, really? Man, that, uh, must've been a lot of salvage they had. Huh.
Well, another reason for me to like the Ravens, as I've always had a weird fondness for that Mech.
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Wait, really? Man, that, uh, must've been a lot of salvage they had. Huh.
Well, another reason for me to like the Ravens, as I've always had a weird fondness for that Mech.
I would not be surprised if the Ravens simply stored most of the salvaged CSV Crossbows, in case of a very rainy day.
ps. to any CGL staff listening, please, we need an Crossbow R (nicely critpacked and ENE please).
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I always just figured the crossbow was put into production as it was an easy-to-manufacture 'mech and with the Raven's limited resources is a good option to bolster the touman.
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I always just figured the crossbow was put into production as it was an easy-to-manufacture 'mech and with the Raven's limited resources is a good option to bolster the touman.
Ugh if we're doing a Viper mech we should rename it.
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Meh, "Crossbow" is a pretty neutral name, and I claim it is Raven designed anyways, considering it was designed by stolen Raven scientists anyways.
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Meh, "Crossbow" is a pretty neutral name, and I claim it is Raven designed anyways, considering it was designed by stolen Raven scientists anyways.
Oh yeah I forgot Raven scientists made it. I retract my previous statement. Esp since the Ravens aren't currently making any Frontline Heavy 'mechs (unless you count the Bombardier or Merlin, which, who am I kidding of course they're Frontline!)
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The MUL lists the Crossbow as only used by Ravens during the Dark Age and the Early and Late Republic peroids. Prior to that, during the Jihad it actually had IS Clan General plus assorted Homeworlders.
That said, the MUL doesn't say how common mechs are, and the RATs are just a generalized way of rolling up a random force. You'll probably have to wait for a new Objectives book or an incidental line in another sourcebook (e.g ilClan, pg 93930 Appendix Z, "The Snow Raven Crossbow factory on Dante was levelled by Triumvirate genetitans in Aug 3184").
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Given that Ravens are not only Clan Warship, but also Clan Technician, Clan Never-Throw-Anything-Away, and Clan Spiteful, I'd be TOTALLY okay with them having whipped up a Crossbow factory.
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The MUL lists the Crossbow as only used by Ravens during the Dark Age and the Early and Late Republic peroids. Prior to that, during the Jihad it actually had IS Clan General plus assorted Homeworlders.
Actually it falls under Clan Snow Raven in both the Clan Invasion and Civil War Eras (this era includes the IS clans, but at this point the Ravens aren't in the Inner Sphere in any sort of numbers yet ) - this is not a counter to your point, but adds some information - it then moves to IS Clan General in the Jihad Era, then the Raven Alliance in the three following eras. This gives credence to the idea of a factory producing them, but that's still no guarantee there is one (stronger in that they are the only faction listed as using them in the later eras). The ease of its manufacture is a supporting factor to this given the Raven's lack of general resources, but again, is not proof.
To me, there is enough circumstantial evidence to support the idea of a factory producing them in the Alliance - but without proof it is simply supposition.
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It actually makes sense that it is produced by the Raven Alliance. Everything is standard technology except for the weapons and omnipods. They can make them cheaply and give them to the Outworld units and say "Look, we're giving you omnimechs!". Outworld techs wouldn't have difficulty maintaining them either.
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It actually makes sense that it is produced by the Raven Alliance. Everything is standard technology except for the weapons and omnipods. They can make them cheaply and give them to the Outworld units and say "Look, we're giving you omnimechs!". Outworld techs wouldn't have difficulty maintaining them either.
And now we need an 'O' Loadout. ;)
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I mean, I know that a lot of Vipers died in their mechs during the invasion of Lum, it just seems odd to me that there are so many Crossbows left in the RA 70 years later given the turnover in the Raven touman. I mean, we don't even have Minoraurs or Centaurs left on our Protomech RATs by 3145, but we have somehow have Crossbows... ??? Maybe our R-teams did a really good job? Or the Raven Touman really is that small now and we're really only talking about only 10 Crossbows here?
Given that salvaged Mechs are almost always in the 2 or 12 position on RATs (e.g. Black Lanner on the Steel Viper tables in FM:WC, Blood Kites on the Star Adder tables, etc) a 7 position would seem to imply that the RA produces them. I'm not the biggest fan of the Crossbow, partially because of its association with the Viper aesthetic but also not least of which is that it can't even manage to have 20 points of armor on certain locations (bleh!) The only variant that suits my style is the B, although the E seems intriguing.
I would be inclined to agree that it's in easy Omnimech to churn out, given that it doesn't have any advanced components, you really just need Omni pods and you're good to go.
Of course, the question on my mind is why didn't we start up a Stormcrow factory? It's basically the Raven totem Mech and is all I could ask for (why bother producing heavy Mechs when you have the Stormcrow?). The Ryoken II however, is a joke.
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But the Ryoken III shows possibilities.
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I mean, I know that a lot of Vipers died in their mechs during the invasion of Lum, it just seems odd to me that there are so many Crossbows left in the RA 70 years later given the turnover in the Raven touman. I mean, we don't even have Minoraurs or Centaurs left on our Protomech RATs by 3145, but we have somehow have Crossbows... ??? Maybe our R-teams did a really good job? Or the Raven Touman really is that small now and we're really only talking about only 10 Crossbows here?
Given that salvaged Mechs are almost always in the 2 or 12 position on RATs (e.g. Black Lanner on the Steel Viper tables in FM:WC, Blood Kites on the Star Adder tables, etc) a 7 position would seem to imply that the RA produces them. I'm not the biggest fan of the Crossbow, partially because of its association with the Viper aesthetic but also not least of which is that it can't even manage to have 20 points of armor on certain locations (bleh!) The only variant that suits my style is the B, although the E seems intriguing.
I would be inclined to agree that it's in easy Omnimech to churn out, given that it doesn't have any advanced components, you really just need Omni pods and you're good to go.
I can imagine that any remaining Minotaurs or Centaurs were traded to CHH, while the Raven focused more on the Roc and Gorgon. Also there is no way to tell how many Crossbows were salvaged and perhaps stored over the centuries.
Of course, the question on my mind is why didn't we start up a Stormcrow factory? It's basically the Raven totem Mech and is all I could ask for (why bother producing heavy Mechs when you have the Stormcrow?). The Ryoken II however, is a joke.
The Raven are likely hand-building Stormcrows (like the Wolfs were doing with Timber Wolfs), until the Ryoken III becomes available.
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But the Ryoken III shows possibilities.
The RA should trial for this Mech.
Btw, who wants to invade Terra along the way?
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The RA should trial for this Mech.
Btw, who wants to invade Terra along the way?
Phfft. Terra just paints a giant target on whoever holds it. Better to be an 'ally' of whoever holds it.
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Totally unrelated: anyone want to help me get a fan funded Hippogriff in the works?
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Phfft. Terra just paints a giant target on whoever holds it. Better to be an 'ally' of whoever holds it.
Would there be a clan that we WOULDN'T want to be allied with? I know I personally don't like Wolf or Jade Falcon (and really only like Hells Horses when they're not Crusaders), but would the RA care if it weren't the Bears or, to a lesser amount, the Sea Foxes?
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Would there be a clan that we WOULDN'T want to be allied with? I know I personally don't like Wolf or Jade Falcon (and really only like Hells Horses when they're not Crusaders), but would the RA care if it weren't the Bears or, to a lesser amount, the Sea Foxes?
If the Sea Foxes get Terra, you know prices everywhere will skyrocket.
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Paticuarly when Harjel is found on Terra!
Terran Harjel. Three times the potential!
TT
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Paticuarly when Harjel is found on Terra!
Terran Harjel. Three times the potential!
TT
It must be Red Harjel.
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Blue harjel is only found on the ocean floor,that's why the sea foxes will find it
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I have to say, I've got more than a passing curiosity about what is going to happen to the Raven fleet come ilClan time. Right now, they have far and away the most powerful navy in the Inner Sphere...when it's all active. However, they are having a hard time justifying the cost of keeping that huge fleet active with nothing to do with it. So, something will have to give and I doubt the Raven fleet will keep sitting around looking pretty for ilClan.
Do they try to start conquering more systems? Sounds nice, but unless all you want to do is blow them up, you need ground forces to hold planets. A warship fleet would be fine for blockading someplace, or even raiding to steal some of their stuff, but you can't really claim and hold a planet with a space ship. Heck, they are already having trouble managing the few worlds they have already taken or been given, how are they going to raise the tempo enough to give three full stars of Warships something to do? Being able to show up in orbit and broadcast, "Hey guys, you all belong to the Raven Alliance now," isn't going to cut it.
Do they lend/sell some of them? Probably not to their neighbors, who would likely end up turning around and using them against the Ravens before long, but maybe to the Sea Foxes or the RasDom. The Bears especially have most of their eggs in one big basket (or two, if the Leviathan III comes online), and could use the ability to station at least SOME naval power in different places across their empire. They have a whole lot of space to protect and one warship just can't be everywhere at once. They also seem to have abundant 'resources' which they could trade to the Ravens. They have Mechs, AeroSpace assets, Raw Materials, pretty much anything other than trained warriors, and even those might be possible with some sort of contrived trial. The Sea Foxes also have resources, and might not be averse to picking up a couple more hulls they can convert for Aimag duty.
Do they go to war with someone and get many of them blown up? That's going to be a little tough to manage. Their two neighbors have only three warships between them, two of which are corvettes, and they are unlikely to be more than a speedbump in a fight with even a single naval star. The FedSuns and the Combine just don't have the naval power to do much damage to a real naval star. So, who would they fight? The Falcons and the Wolves are really the only powers that have something approaching a credible fleet that could seriously damage or kill one of the Raven's naval stars. Unfortunately, they are on the other side of the Sphere. Heck, even if they somehow managed to hitch a ride on the 'Come conquer Terra...again!' bandwagon, the Republic isn't exactly flush with warships. And really, how many times can the magical SDS systems be resurrected and cripple yet another fleet. That system has been destroyed at LEAST three times already, how much can really be left!? Maybe if you could somehow convince the Bears and the Ravens to get in a fight, you might be able to erase some of the Raven fleet and the big Leviathans at the same time, but that seems like a stretch. They have always been friendly towards each other, and they are separated by the whole of the Combine. Why would they bother fighting each other?
I guess there is always the boring old 'stick them back in mothballs' option, but I find that unsatisfying.
So, what do you folks think might happen with the fleet?
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So, what do you folks think might happen with the fleet?
I see two real options for their use during this era.
1. They are going to die. It might be spectacular, or it might be with a whimper but I can see them getting destroyed to bring the focus nearly completely back to the ground game.
2. They are going to be "consumed" by the ilClan which happens to force, coerce, or otherwise integrate the remaining clans (perhaps minus the Ghost Bears as they barely exist as clan anymore) into a single faction with each existing clan assuming a specific role within the organization. The Wolves would be the higher end rank and file forces, the Falcons take on the role of shock troops, the Horses assume the more general rank and file forces, while the Foxes continue their role of armed merchants working to build up the faction's economy, and lastly the Ravens would be in charge of the navy. If the Bears were to end up included in this, they'd probably end up being a clan that properly utilizes material resource extraction.
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Warships can be used for orbital fire support against massed enemy formations. The key is having a REALLY good gunner at the controls. They can also be used for destroying factories or burning industrial districts with an hour's warning to keep the loss of life to a minimum. In this sense, they are giant engines of coercion.
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I see two real options for their use during this era.
1. They are going to die. It might be spectacular, or it might be with a whimper but I can see them getting destroyed to bring the focus nearly completely back to the ground game.
2. They are going to be "consumed" by the ilClan which happens to force, coerce, or otherwise integrate the remaining clans (perhaps minus the Ghost Bears as they barely exist as clan anymore) into a single faction with each existing clan assuming a specific role within the organization. The Wolves would be the higher end rank and file forces, the Falcons take on the role of shock troops, the Horses assume the more general rank and file forces, while the Foxes continue their role of armed merchants working to build up the faction's economy, and lastly the Ravens would be in charge of the navy. If the Bears were to end up included in this, they'd probably end up being a clan that properly utilizes material resource extraction.
3. Exodus to the deep, deep, outer periphery. The Ravens have learned that it is good to have an exit plan ready, and with trouble brewing they prepared themselves for both combat and a possible exodus.
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Warships can be used for orbital fire support against massed enemy formations. The key is having a REALLY good gunner at the controls. They can also be used for destroying factories or burning industrial districts with an hour's warning to keep the loss of life to a minimum. In this sense, they are giant engines of coercion.
Yeah, but you probably don't want to blow stuff like that up if you are trying to conquer the planet. I mean, if you want all that nice, shiny industry working for you, you can't very well shoot at it!
As for using it against massed forces, yeah that is certainly a thing, and quite effective. What I'm saying is, say you park a Cameron in orbit of some planet and tell everyone they are part of the Raven Alliance...and they say no. What do you do? If you are trying to capture the planet and make it part of your nation, you can't very well just start blowing up cities or fragging every dropship that leaves the surface. You would be blowing up the whole reason you wanted the planet in the first place. Warships can win battles, but you need ground forces to control a planet.
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3. Exodus to the deep, deep, outer periphery. The Ravens have learned that it is good to have an exit plan ready, and with trouble brewing they prepared themselves for both combat and a possible exodus.
True, and while I consider that very Raveny I do not think it would be allowed to happen. Certainly they could go off into the aether, but at that point their story likely ends, and I would rather that not happen.
I had meant to add a wishful element in how the Ravens could use their warships, as long as they kept their borders relatively small, they could use their warships as a wall as they gradually expand towards the core of the Inner Sphere. They probably could not take much more than a score of systems before this was no longer a reasonable option, but they could pick up some important more heavily industrialized and populous worlds doing so.
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I was thinking about this a little more last night, and came up with an admittedly odd and unlikely idea:
The Ravens could become the enforcement arm of the Sea Foxes. If the Wolves and Falcons keep getting less strictly clan in their behavior, it could become dangerous for the Aimags operating out in their space. While the foxes have Warships, I understand that they have largely been stripped and converted to be massive merchant vessels and may not be much good in a fight. The Ravens could decide it sucks out in the Periphery and merge with the Sea Foxes to provide them a real naval force to protect them in their travels. That would potentially split the fleet up over the whole sphere and help give it a reason to exist without being an overwhelming single force.
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You guys are thinking wrong!
They will place a Capital ship over the planet, place their demands, get refused and open fire on the surface with capital weapons. Most likely in a deserted place.They may even land a dropship and destroy it on the ground!
OR
They may jump back towards Home world and try to reclaim lost territory.
TT
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Yeah, but you probably don't want to blow stuff like that up if you are trying to conquer the planet. I mean, if you want all that nice, shiny industry working for you, you can't very well shoot at it!
This is for planets that are too far to garrison or too difficult to capture. You would be saying to this hostile power "Do not annoy us or we will halve you GNP."
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If the planet can't get to the WS then they most likely won't argue (remember the shiny red button)
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If the planet can't get to the WS then they most likely won't argue (remember the shiny red button)
The FM:3145 entry for Delta Galaxy notes that the galaxy was basically forced off the surface of a planet they had captured by a non-compliant population they couldn't deal with.They still nominally control the planets in question through threat of orbital bombardment, but even with with warships around to blow stuff up, they were forced to leave the planet by locals with car bombs. Their warships were enough to 'own' the planet, but not enough to actually control it. It has to be sort of embarrassing at clan social functions to be forced to say, "That is our planet, but we don't ever go down there anymore. The locals would kills us if we did."
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(http://www.allgeektome.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/dd38.jpg)
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Lets use both hands. >:D
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I'm broadly in favor of John Hurt and/or the Doctor being Ravens.
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We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)
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Ha!
TT
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We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)
John Hurts, the Doctors, or Shiny Big Red Buttons?
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John Hurts, the Doctors, or Shiny Big Red Buttons?
Yes.
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Yes.
Your ideas intrigue me. Is there perhaps a newsletter I could subscribe to?
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Hail DG, back from the dead
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Yes.
What he said.
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Hehe, I have returned from the Umbra, all shiny and Chrome...
I bringeth The Doctor as He is Snow Raven.
*nodnods*
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We really should have one of those installed on each of our warships just for fun. }:)
Trothkin; you mean, you do not!?
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Yes.
JAIM KNOWS WHAT IS UP.
*NODNODS*
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Trothkin; you mean, you do not!?
The budget has been tight! [soapbox] That and we're having trouble finding someone who can integrate it with the old SLDF computer systems. :-[
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The budget has been tight! [soapbox] That and we're having trouble finding someone who can integrate it with the old SLDF computer systems. :-[
If the budget has been really tight, you should just grab one from the toilet, all our toilets have one.
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If the budget has been really tight, you should just grab one from the toilet, all our toilets have one.
Orbital Bombardment has numerous definitions among the Snow Ravens.
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My button is fancy. It's orange and glows with the bezel around the mounting plate is studded with diamonds and emeralds. I took it as isorla from a pirate on Antallos.
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One of the in universe questions that has vexed me for a while:
So we spent all this effort putting boots on the ground invading Antallos and lost a cluster or two there along the way (per HTP: Antallos) but Antallos isn't part of the RA later on. And it isn't a ghost world (still appears on maps). What gives? Any ideas?
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At a guess, after eliminating all the pirates, the Raven Khans deemed the world unfit for occupation and left it to its own devices. It willlikely become a haven for pirates once more and then squashed flat ... again
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At a guess, after eliminating all the pirates, the Raven Khans deemed the world unfit for occupation and left it to its own devices. It willlikely become a haven for pirates once more and then squashed flat ... again
So a pirate farm?
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One of the in universe questions that has vexed me for a while:
So we spent all this effort putting boots on the ground invading Antallos and lost a cluster or two there along the way (per HTP: Antallos) but Antallos isn't part of the RA later on. And it isn't a ghost world (still appears on maps). What gives? Any ideas?
The Ravens were looking for something specific, not trying to annex Antallos. We don't know what it was or if they found it, but the rest of the world is pretty useless.
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More useless than Rezak's Hole?
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Just to point it out, but the Ravens also cleared much of the wastes of pirates and they still did not annex any of those planets.
Antallos is really only an important world to pirates and less-than-savory mercs, and after the Raven attack probably not either of them anymore. It is not a particularly industrial or populated planet. In the end, it is a bit too far away from other Raven holdings and the Ravens are too small of a clan to maintain forces there for long.
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Orbital Bombardment has numerous definitions among the Snow Ravens.
I laughed way, way harder at this than I probably should have. The mental images it conjured were priceless!
Anyway, I've always been a little surprised that the Ravens didn't officially expand back out into the abandoned worlds of the Periphery more than they have. I know colonization isn't sexy to the clans, but all some of those worlds were lacking was steady access to advanced technology. I would have expected at least SOME worlds to still have valuable resources, and the Ravens to have access to the SL-era tech needed to keep them habitable. It's not like the Clans are all that shy about living on marginal worlds, so I always expected a few more scattered colonies to pop up further out in the previously abandoned areas...but they never really have.
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*tinfoil hat on* That you know of. *tinfoil hat off*
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The Ravens really are not hurting for living space. Remember, they went from living on the equivalent of about 4 worlds to about 40. In addition their overall population probably was cut to maybe 10% of their 3067 population (my estimation for this is that they went from about 97 million to around 10 million, though I feel this number may be a bit high). And while they could certainly provide the limited required technology to the waste worlds, I doubt they felt it was much of a priority.
Lastly, the clans in general - and the Ravens are no different - focus much too heavily into the very near future, they might have a 1-year plan, and a general idea of the way they are headed in 5 years, but by no means an actual plan. This feature of the clans severely diminishes the effectiveness of their top-down-based industrial output, particularly as it relates to anything not military.
This means to me that while the waste worlds may like that the Ravens got rid of the pirates, their subsequent lack of interactions probably decreased whatever goodwill they engendered.
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The Ravens really are not hurting for living space. Remember, they went from living on the equivalent of about 4 worlds to about 40. In addition their overall population probably was cut to maybe 10% of their 3067 population (my estimation for this is that they went from about 97 million to around 10 million, though I feel this number may be a bit high). And while they could certainly provide the limited required technology to the waste worlds, I doubt they felt it was much of a priority.
Lastly, the clans in general - and the Ravens are no different - focus much too heavily into the very near future, they might have a 1-year plan, and a general idea of the way they are headed in 5 years, but by no means an actual plan. This feature of the clans severely diminishes the effectiveness of their top-down-based industrial output, particularly as it relates to anything not military.
This means to me that while the waste worlds may like that the Ravens got rid of the pirates, their subsequent lack of interactions probably decreased whatever goodwill they engendered.
One year plan is all you can do when your first bad decision brings a host of Trials of Grievance or Refusal, which can be fatal and which tend to add a lot of turnover in the mix.
I think the Bears got it closest to getting it right in the IS, keep the military Clan, for everyone else they become Civilians. The need for civilian castes is nill, when you have a realm with a population in the Billions, you even get enough diamonds in the rough to inject new blood into your genetic program with Free Births were a clan so inclined.
The Ravens Picked/Conquered the wrong realm, not that they had a better choice. The hippie peaceniks of the OA, were never going to integrate into anything militarily driven like the clans, after all most of them live in the OA to escape that.
Though it could be interesting if they simply took over the Tortuga Cluster, and set up shop there, though whether or not they could keep their tech would be debatable, and whether they'd have enough people would be debatable too.
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OK, I could not let such a travesty stand; the Turkey thread was actually getting some use, and was at the top of the list. Ewww.
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OK, I could not let such a travesty stand; the Turkey thread was actually getting some use, and was at the top of the list. Ewww.
As of right now, the Jade Turkeys have read your post and put themselves back. Hopefully this post will restore balance to the Force.
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* Goes turkey hunting, err ToP... yeah, ToP for the most Post! *
TT
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What annoys me most about the Jade Turkeys is not that they dropped their most effective warship on a plant. On the contrary, it was one less ship to challenge our supremacy. No, what annoyed me was that it was a Nightlord. We built it! If they didn't want it, then they should have given it back to us. >:(
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Seeing what the used WS market is,,,I agree cause it's a classic
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I can't remember who came up with this nickname, but I still think the best name for a Nightlord is the Eminent Domain.
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I can't remember who came up with this nickname, but I still think the best name for a Nightlord is the Eminent Domain.
Would pair well with the Leviathan 'Manifest Destiny'.
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Would pair well with the Leviathan 'Manifest Destiny'.
It's in a naval star with the Lola III-class Freedom of Navigation.
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And hey definitely could have given it to us Bears as well: ' Ursa Major II' and the DCA would have panicked and started flipping tables: sending every Warship, Dropship, and Aerospace Fighter to the Dominion Border to stop it.
What annoys me most about the Jade Turkeys is not that they dropped their most effective warship on a plant. On the contrary, it was one less ship to challenge our supremacy. No, what annoyed me was that it was a Nightlord. We built it! If they didn't want it, then they should have given it back to us. >:(
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Does not feel right talking with clanners, but if have work to do, you have work to do...
Does any know of reference on what factories the Raven managed to evacuate from the Homeworlds? My experience with the WoR books is little, so i come here for your knowledge in the matter at hand.
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As far as I can tell virtually none of the true manufacturing facilities. Most of the potemkins-class warships which survived had some bare-bones factories built in their cavernous cargo bays - which may or may not be built around the core components of homeworld factories. Most of the support the Ravens have been able to give to upgrade the Alliance factories seems to primarily be in expertise and smaller but more effective pieces of equipment - and this support has only been giving to certain factories (as seen in the Cadaver in TRO 3145, the Raven Alliance still produces BattleMechs with Inner Sphere levels of technology).
Some specifics (paraphrased, for the most part, from Objectives - The Clans):
Snow Raven Insdustrial Complex Alpha - started as a bunch of mobile factories which were morphed into a true factory complex. Builds Battlemechs and battle armor
United Outworlders Corporation on Mitchella - new complex, unknown origin. Builds battlemechs and combat vehicles, perhaps a bit more was intended but this is all we know for sure.
Crest Foundries, Quatre Belle - Started as a mobile factory
CSR Battle Armor Facility Alpha, Ramora - unknown origin
UOC, Ramor - adopted clan manufacturing techniques
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Does not feel right talking with clanners, but if have work to do, you have work to do...
Does any know of reference on what factories the Raven managed to evacuate from the Homeworlds? My experience with the WoR books is little, so i come here for your knowledge in the matter at hand.
Honestly, we really don't know. WoR seemed to be deliberately vague to give the writers maneuvering room in this matter. However, they did state that the largest and most important convoy was captured or destroyed by the Adders.
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The 3145/3150 TRO series gives you an idea of the sorts of things that are still being built.
And of course if you don't need to distinguish between what's still being built and what's just still around in large number, you can look at the availability filters for units on the MUL.
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A lot of stuff on the RA RAT is utter trash (Rokurokubi, Dasher II, Jaguar, I'm looking at you) but at least we have the Goshawk II, which is nice.
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A lot of stuff on the RA RAT is utter trash (Rokurokubi, Dasher II, Jaguar, I'm looking at you) but at least we have the Goshawk II, which is nice.
It's a quad, and it would be nice to unify the SRMs with the ATM launcher (although infernos can prove useful). But the Jaguar is a pretty solid design, IMO. I might trade Dark Crow production for Jaguar production, for example.
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If we are going by visual aesthetics alone, I would get rid of the Dark Crow before I would the jaguar. The Dark Crow is one odd-looking duck. I hate the gun placement.
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See, I really enjoy the aesthetics of the Dark Crow. I like it because it's different. I would like to see an expansion of that look moving forward.
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See, I really enjoy the aesthetics of the Dark Crow. I like it because it's different. I would like to see an expansion of that look moving forward.
I also don't mind the looks, too bad it too undergunned for my taste.
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I also don't mind the looks, too bad it too undergunned for my taste.
I don't mind the Dark Crow, either. Actually, I rather enjoy it's goofiness. Although I admit that it's a little under armored and under gunned. There was a rumour from a TPTBer way back that the Dark Crow was a reference to me ;D
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A what if question: What if all the CSR Convoys managed to arrive safely in the AO?
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A what if question: What if all the CSR Convoys managed to arrive safely in the AO?
As a Horse clansman, I see the opportunity to recover this as isola for my clan.
TT
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So your saying that the Surat snakes didn't ambush em?For one they'd be in a stronger position with the outworlders,take a few more worlds from the IS,throw a few more ships at the WoB and finally set up that Star League tech Disco ball factory 😆
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You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...
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You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...
Just think of those on a Naval Scale.
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Just think of those on a Naval Scale.
I...I CAN!!!
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Maybe they would work better as LAMs.
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Since i don't use dark crows, how do they team up with mad dog mkIII's?
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Since i don't use dark crows, how do they team up with mad dog mkIII's?
I think together they're too much of the same thing -- both are relatively light on armor (9.5 and 8 tons) and lacking in hole-punching weapons (nothing bigger than a 10-point ER large laser).
But if you want lots of mobile fire support, they are close in speed (5/8 and 6/9) and both have oodles of 21+ hex weapons (Ultra-5s, ER large lasers, LRMs, RAC-5s), depending on the exact loadout for the Vulture III.
Although it's slightly faster, I might be tempted to stick the Dark Crow in the backfield with its thinner armor and fixed long-range weapons and go with one of the shorter-ranged Vulture III configs, like the A and C's massed SRMs or the Prime's ER medium laser array. They'd sorta complement each other that way.
Hope this helps.
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I'd be interested in hearing what Raven Alliance forces people do use. Is anyone running Touman formations side by side with AMC?
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I only use Protomechs...
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Bombardiers and Bowmans... with a lot of Rifleman-3N(C)s to boot.
TT
The above was ment as JOKE!
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I was not joking.
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Oh I know you weren't joking Crow.
I can see you with Binaries of Proto's in your little neck of the woods taking over!
Using mixed Stars of Hippogriffs and Roc 5s to your advantage, am I right?
TT
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I like the pre-Jihad selection the most to be honest. Give me Chrysaor 2s, Rock 1s and Gorgon 1s and 3s. That's about all you need
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How do you like to field them?
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How do you like to field them?
Typically 3-5 points of Protos and a Mech or two. I either use fast annoying Mechs like the Incubus or Goshawk II or beefy zombies like Warhammer IIc or Omen. The point is to have Mech support that is strong enough to be a threat and take fire instead of Protos and have at least one hole punching weapon.
I never ever field Protos in anything but broken terrain
I've wanted to field Protos with AMC infantry tanks like the Hunter, Po and Rommel, but I haven't gotten around to it
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I have a point of Rocs but I haven’t fielded them yet. What would be good to support them with or what would they support well?
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Rocs are good supporting pretty much everything, really.
Another fun thing that I like to do is use Rocs as support for Elementals. But only in cities or very broken terrain! The Elementals crit seek and the Rocs have the (relatively) big guns and mobility. You could also use Minotaurs for this role
You want to keep your opponent from being able to focus on your Protos, because they don't stand up to too fire (watch out for LBX, pulse lasers and infernos). I use Protos as mobile flanking forces for my main force. What other Mechs do you have?
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I use Rocs mostly to support Heavy Battle Stars, they really keep the flanks and rear clear of backstabbers.
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Other than the Rocs, and from memory, I have some infantry, Elementals, and Salamander BA. For Mechs I have a Timber Wolf, couple Atlases, Warhammer IIC, Highlander IIC, WarHawk, Ice Ferret, Vulture, Horned Owl, BattleMaster.
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The Dark Crow entry in TRO 3085 makes passing reference to Snow Raven “S-Teams” - is that elaborated on elsewhere?
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FM: Warden Clans I think. A quick and dirty doing of S-Teams is that they are salvage teams purpose-built to do combat recovery.
I usually peg them at 2-3 'mechs with hands, 2-3 battle armor points and a point of vehicles, but as far as I can tell an actual equipment outfit isn't mentioned anywhere.
I also don't think they are included in the TOE force listings, being considered the equivalent of uncounted militia/garrison units, though they are significantly more important than that.
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Vition, you're thinking of R-Teams.
S-Teams are the new teams that use space capable units. They are mechs, battle armour, and protomechs that operate in the void. That's really about all we know.
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Oops, yep, my bad, not enough coffee yet. :-X
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Hail, trothkin. How goes the good fight in my absence? Glassed any Adders recently? I trust you've kept my perch warm.
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Hail, trothkin. How goes the good fight in my absence? Glassed any Adders recently? I trust you've kept my perch warm.
Always, trothkin. Good to see you back again from the Void.
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Here's an obvious question for this thread:
What are your favourite aerospace units for providing ground support?
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Leviathan II Class Battleships, of course. >:D (You did say aerospace units right?)
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Sure, vaporizing the ground in question can count as ground support.
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I see your Leviathan II and raise you Galaxies of Corax C's!
Corax C: [drool]
EDIT: I'd like to modify my post, please.
Add Titan-Cs and Titan Monitors for overwatch these Corax in motion.
Thank you,
TT
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Visigoths, Jagatais, Sabutais and Hydaspes in ye olden days
Coraxes, Lightnings and Wusuns these days
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Here's an obvious question for this thread:
What are your favourite aerospace units for providing ground support?
I like the tried and true drop a Jengiz on it.
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Howdy Unkindness. Just dropping in to see what's up in the air over here.
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You say this, but all I can picture are Disco Elementals...
Can't go wrong with Disco Elementals.
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There's a Corax C2 in the MUL:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2)
Says it's from TRO: Prototypes, but I don't see any such variant in the book.
Does anyone have the correct source and stats?
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Well, the Corax C is on page 192 of TRO Prototypes. My guess would be that the C2 refers to the proposed variant in the end of the write-up, which proposes swapping the missiles out for a large laser and armour or a targeting computer.
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Well, the Corax C is on page 192 of TRO Prototypes. My guess would be that the C2 refers to the proposed variant in the end of the write-up, which proposes swapping the missiles out for a large laser and armour or a targeting computer.
Yeah, it actually says "and additional armor, weapons or even a targeting computer could
be added as well," which could be anything. I was hoping there was something more definitive about what else is added besides the large pulse. But thanks. Good to know I wasn't missing something.
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Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
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I'm not sure there's any room for the Ravens in the Shattered Fortress Storyline except as a spoiler. FM3145 has them struggling to hold what they got/took from the Draconis Combine and FedSuns, and mention their ground forces being ill-equipped and too small to really handle their duties, much less an expansion of their duties.
So I think their only possible purpose is going to be as a spoiler. If they go heavy against the FedSuns, then that would prevent the FedSuns from helping out the Republic (even more than the clan Invasion). If they go against the Draconis Combine, it will take pressure off the FedSuns, allow them to regroup, and maybe help out the Republic. If they go against both (and that's probably unlikely considering the issues they had in FM3145) then they could take pressure off the FS from the DC and possibly keep both those factions from dealing with the Republic.
So yeah. Not really seeing them playing a direct role in the issue, but depending on where (and if) they jump, they could potentially tie up/free some of the others involved in the fighting.
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Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Claims a large number of worlds from the Fed Suns by stabbing the Dracs when they don't expect it.
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Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Provide fleet support for a surprise Clan attack?
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IF they are not or have not consolidated their position, I doubt they can do anything more than be an annoyance, they may take some more worlds on the fringe, but they would start to come into contact with the Dragoons on the DCMS/FS border. Assuming they haven't been moved. While both the FS and DCMS may be busy now, the RA cannot hope to stand up to either by themselves, much less if they come to an agreement and hit from both sides like the reunification wars all over again, only this time for a reason instead of the pretext of one. RA best bet in the last 10 years would be to crank up the Iron Wombs, really crank them up, not 25 or 50 but thousands per bloodname. Build the Tech, Scientist, Labor and Merchant classes up since they cannot figure out how to integrate with the OA to the point they would work in Raven factories. Of course they should have been doing this for the last 50 years, along with having harvest trials for other clans civies in the IS, all but the GBs would be amenable for the right price. Being in a realm of Amish Luddites isn't helping them at all.
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Provide fleet support for a surprise Clan attack?
That would be my guess. I also expect invasion against the Combine after an IlClan is declared.
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IF they are not or have not consolidated their position, I doubt they can do anything more than be an annoyance, they may take some more worlds on the fringe, but they would start to come into contact with the Dragoons on the DCMS/FS border. Assuming they haven't been moved. While both the FS and DCMS may be busy now, the RA cannot hope to stand up to either by themselves, much less if they come to an agreement and hit from both sides like the reunification wars all over again, only this time for a reason instead of the pretext of one. RA best bet in the last 10 years would be to crank up the Iron Wombs, really crank them up, not 25 or 50 but thousands per bloodname. Build the Tech, Scientist, Labor and Merchant classes up since they cannot figure out how to integrate with the OA to the point they would work in Raven factories. Of course they should have been doing this for the last 50 years, along with having harvest trials for other clans civies in the IS, all but the GBs would be amenable for the right price. Being in a realm of Amish Luddites isn't helping them at all.
Hmm. Thousands of partially combat trained sociopaths without enough trainers who have been told that they are the best thing ever and the world is their oyster.
I can't see how that could go wrong.
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Trothkin, any conjectures as to what the RA does in the upcoming Shattered Fortress?
Pulling out all the stops:
1) Warship support to the Wolves or whoever becomes ilClan in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic. Warships and territory are not mentioned, but there is some technology trade going on between the Wolves and Ravens per the Skinwalker fluff. The questions are in which direction and in exchange for what?
2) Limited invasion or campaign of raids against the Fedrats to keep them off-balance and less able to assist the Republic during the ilClan's invasion, again in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic, on top of whatever the Ravens can take from the FedRats.
3) Subsequent joint operation with Bears sanctioned by the ilClan to squeeze the Snakes on two fronts, securing some more territory for the Ravens. After the ilClan is declared, I suspect there are multiple Clan versus House campaigns to bring (or attempt to bring) the Houses to heel under the ilClan. Bears and Ravens against the Snakes is a logical one given the interstellar geography. (If Alaric is ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan, I imagine he'll want to conquer the FedRats himself given his lineage.)
Going negative:
1) Clan Star Adder and Homeworld friends show up and pound the Ravens into a new Periphery Stone Age.
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Kind of curious what the state of RA proto forces are at these days, especially since the Blood Spirits walked off with the entirety of Zeta Galaxy as the Ravens were leaving the Homeworlds. Has something similar to a new Zeta Galaxy been form or are protos units just formed ad hoc these days. Of course, it seems like they produce more or less of the essential designs as they used to (Cecerops, Satyr, Chrysaor, Roc, Gorgon, Minotaur, plus the Hippogriff). Also, anyone used the Arcadia 3088? >:D
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1) Warship support to the Wolves or whoever becomes ilClan in exchange for technology, resources, and/or territory inside the former Republic. Warships and territory are not mentioned, but there is some technology trade going on between the Wolves and Ravens per the Skinwalker fluff. The questions are in which direction and in exchange for what?
Wait, we can cut deals with the ilClan, we don't immediately have to lick their boots?
3) Subsequent joint operation with Bears sanctioned by the ilClan to squeeze the Snakes on two fronts, securing some more territory for the Ravens. After the ilClan is declared, I suspect there are multiple Clan versus House campaigns to bring (or attempt to bring) the Houses to heel under the ilClan. Bears and Ravens against the Snakes is a logical one given the interstellar geography. (If Alaric is ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan, I imagine he'll want to conquer the FedRats himself given his lineage.)
Ah, the good old Bear-Raven sandwich. Love it! Plus the Feddies have enough problems of their own right now that I don't think they'd interfere much.
1) Clan Star Adder and Homeworld friends show up and pound the Ravens into a new Periphery Stone Age.
This is exactly what I am afraid of, because if I was an Adder, I would do exactly that: go after the largest Warship fleet first. Of course on the other hand, Quatre Belle and Dante aside, the RA isn't exactly the best base of operations to take over for the effort involved, plus the Ravens learning from their past mistakes would rather resort to scorched earth than allow the Adders to pluck their eggs from the nest so to speak. Still the damage would be done, and there wouldn't be many factions that I'm that interested in playing if the Ravens bite it... >:(
Although to be honest, my hunch is that remnants of the Society are hanging out in the old Traders Domain, spinward of the RA because of various cryptic comments in WoR plus Ben Rome's original WoR draft. Of course, if that's true, then that's likely to bring down the Adder banhammer even harder
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I kinda hope the Ravens have another 7-8 clusters (and maybe a regiment or two) hidden out in the wastes somewhere. Then, at least, they'd have the firepower to actually do stuff. As much as I'd like to see them do a lot of interacting with the setting, with them as-is, they don't seem to have the ability to much more than serve as an addition to some other power. And at least with joining a Wolf ilclan, they may keep their identity.
Re - ProtoMechs: They seem to be in use in fairly high amounts. They were used in some of their assaults on Feddie worlds. I suspect they replace roughly a trinary of 'mechs in each cluster, but there's no specific evidence for this.
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Wait, we can cut deals with the ilClan, we don't immediately have to lick their boots?
I think the key is to cut deals with the right candidate for the ilClan before they become the ilClan.
That and those Raven warships are a negotiating trump card in their own right.
Also, maybe the outrages of crazy Malvina and the rabid Falcons will become a unifying force for inter-Clan coordination/cooperation.
Ah, the good old Bear-Raven sandwich.
The Snakes are the only House sandwiched between two allied Clans, so it seems natural.
Like the FedRats, I suspect the Elsies will become an object of Alaric's attention whether he's ilKhan or remains the Wolf Khan. Maybe the Falcons will assist or maybe they'll be annihilated or exiled first.
The Leaguers or more of their sub-states seem like a natural target for the Foxes or some of their sub-factions.
That leaves the Cappies. Maybe the Horses get transplanted there, or the Cappies become a rump state after the ilClan takes back the old Terran Hegemony.
I forgot... the wild card that can played in the name of Raven fiat is political machinations. The FedRats won't fall for it again. But other Houses or factions might.
This is exactly what I am afraid of, because if I was an Adder, I would do exactly that: go after the largest Warship fleet first.
I personally hope that the Adders and Homeworlders evolve into something other than Operation Revival Mk. II. But if they must invade, they should just forgo the OZ route and head directly for Terra through unoccupied systems. There's no indication this will happen, but the Council of Six finding the Homeworlders sitting on Terra after the Wall comes down would be a great twist. In such an event, I assume the no-holds-barred Aggressors will employ Society computer viruses to sideline any attacking Raven or other Spheroid Clan warships.
Although to be honest, my hunch is that remnants of the Society are hanging out in the old Traders Domain, spinward of the RA because of various cryptic comments in WoR plus Ben Rome's original WoR draft.
Woah... you must start a new thread with the relevant references. Sounds like a conspiracy theory worthy of discussion.
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In the fluff about the Levi 3 we learn that the Ravens are apparently building something in the Alliance and their ship building yard is active and working, but on what we don't know.
I still think that the Leviathan III's fate will be one of two things.
1 - She is destroyed in the yards or shortly after launch by a nuclear device somehow snuck onboard. Evidence points the device of being Kuritan origin and the Bears go absolutely ballistic and throw troops at the Combine's massively over extended flank. This helps save the Suns as suddenly ANGRY DOMINION BEARS EVERYWHERE along the Kuritan border and they've not got the forces to slow them down. (plus they have another Leviathan II still active and in service and there's no counter for her either).
2 - Somehow the folks who will become ilClan win her in a trial of possession that does not escalate too hugely and she leads the assault on the Sol System.
As to what the Ravens are building, I wish we knew :s
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I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.
Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5
Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
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I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.
Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5
Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
I'd ditch the Pack Hunter for a Baboon 3, Incubus, or Kit Fox H to keep it more Raveny. Otherwise, you've done a pretty good job on keeping the Raven flavor, except for including assault mechs. ;) Your ground forces actually look... effective! :D
I mean, if it was me, I'd ditch the assault mechs for more heavies and make the entire force move at least 5/8/X, apart from BA, and put the points in even more ASFs, BA and protos. But that's just my play style...
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How are you planning to move the Battle Armor around?
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How are you planning to move the Battle Armor around?
Carry them on Omnimechs, of course. You *can* do that in Alpha Strike, right? I wouldn't go with more than 5 points of BA anyway.
When playing Clan, I like to run with Medium and Heavy Mechs, dropping the BA off, and then backing away, using the BA as a screen to stay at range, meanwhile Protos supporting the BA. That kind of thing. ASF bomb/strafe as necessary
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Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5
Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
I'd run these instead as Reinforced Star and the rest as a Binary Nova. Yes it includes Aero!
( Do you know anyone else but Raven to use these? My point exactly... )
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5
Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
Leaving you the Extra PV for upgrades or even more units.
TT
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I am prepping a 900 PV starting force for an Alpha Strike campaign. Interested to hear what you all think about what I've come up with. We can acquire more units in the course of the campaign, and we agreed to allow 10% of our force to be outside of what MUL lists for us, for both faction and Era (we're doing Civil War.) Anything you'd change around? I ran out of PV before I got to thinking about vehicles.
Pack Hunter (Standard)
Horned Owl (Standard)
Grizzly (Standard)
Warhammer IIC (Standard)
Highlander IIC (Standard)
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Roc (Standard) x5
Centaur 2 x5
Salamander BA (Standard) x5
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x5
How do you plan on moving the Battle Armor around?
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I'd say that's what the Ice Ferret and Stormcrow are for.
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Oh, I read that as 5 points.
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There is one full star of Elementals and one full star of Salamanders in that list. The only things that can carry them is one full star of OmniMechs. I built this with models I happen to own, but I can borrow/proxy/purchase others. And this is the starting force, each game will be some 3rd of this, and we'll have salvage/repair/purchase rules.
So you think I need some transports, or some more fast Omnis?
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There is one full star of Elementals and one full star of Salamanders in that list. The only things that can carry them is one full star of OmniMechs. I built this with models I happen to own, but I can borrow/proxy/purchase others. And this is the starting force, each game will be some 3rd of this, and we'll have salvage/repair/purchase rules.
So you think I need some transports, or some more fast Omnis?
Ravens typically do not use vees in front-line force unless it's Anhurs on an ad hoc basis, but they do use them for second line forces. Every Raven is a fan of Eles air-dropped from Kirghiz C. ;) Maxim C and Bandit C and are good, but are also expensive.
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I had not seen the Kirghiz C before. I am very interested in that, thank you.
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I had not seen the Kirghiz C before. I am very interested in that, thank you.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kirghiz
10 tons of cargo will carry 10 Elementals.
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Technically, all omniaero can carry BA... Only a few are legally built to handle " bombs ".
TT
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Looks like the Omni special ability in Alpha Strike isn't applied to aerospace.
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Anyone care to critique my 15K BV Proto binary? Note, minus the Chysaors, these are are minis I already own.
Centaur 4 x10
Chysaor 2 x10
Roc 1 x10
Gorgon 3 x10
Minotaur 3 x10
I love Protos about as much as TankDriver loves vees :D
note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
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Do you have long range backup for them, or is this the whole force? You're fast and numerous, but not knowing what size map you'll be playing on, an opponent with high mobility and long range could potentially stay outside of your effective range and pick things off. Not that 10 LRM-12s are anything to sneeze at.
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Wait a minute,,,I thought C’s carries 5 tons (been awhile) but gotta love Disco Elly’s in a Halo drop.Ahhhhh good times
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Alternate plan:
Ice Ferret Prime
Stormcrow Prime
Mad Dog Prime
Timber Wolf Prime
Warhawk C
Elemental BA (Flamer) x5
Baskir Prime x5
Sabre SB-27b x2
Kirghiz C x3
Vandal D x5
Sulla Prime x5
Feels more appropriate to start with another Aerospace Star if I can't fit a full second Triad than to do another Nova and pad the extra with Protos. Way weaker ground force, which might be bad in the scenarios I'm writing, but if I can clear the path with strafing fire/bombs and air drop the elementals in my opponent's back line that might keep them busy enough for my one star to secure objectives.
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Do you have long range backup for them, or is this the whole force? You're fast and numerous, but not knowing what size map you'll be playing on, an opponent with high mobility and long range could potentially stay outside of your effective range and pick things off. Not that 10 LRM-12s are anything to sneeze at.
It's meant to be played on a smallish built up map, like a city or a forest. I never use Protos without cover... 8)
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I think your idea of a Triad is a bit off,I’ve used em for what they are .The 5points of mechs and el’s add up but your ASF add up to 20(or 20 points by your math)...I use a full Cluster of triads (5 by WM) but I’m Raven and that’s my style and their “Very” restrictive on options
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Probably up to the Jihad Era, pretty much all* Raven Clusters were composed thusly:
Front Line: 45 Mechs, 75 Elementals, 30 Fighters
Second Line: 25 Mechs 125 Elementals 50 Fighters
Solahma: 50 Vehicles 125 Elementals 50 Fighters
Zeta Galaxy Chasseurs: Literally whatever you want, as long as it's mostly Protos
*(with the exception of the Wing Clusters and 1st Raven Phalanx)
Of course, it's your game, and paying Clan means that you can bid down. You don't *have* to stick to the Triad structure if it seems like a hindrance to you. It's more of a fluff guideline.
Furthermore, at least from what I've read from sources in 3145, Ravens are back to fielding stuff in a kind of willy nilly fashion post-WoR given their less than orderly exit from the Homeworlds.
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Ahhh yeah,been playing Raven for 20yrs(holy,,,!).Lacking in all types of ground units your forced to play from that angle,we are not Ghost Bears.We will “glass the surface” if needed
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Isn’t it 10 fighters to the star? So I have one Triad + 1 star of fighters.
And that breakdown is really helpful, Crow, thank you.
Only half of my group voted for a narrative in this campaign, so I’m just being fluffy for my own sake. I decided we’re fighting over star league factories on Otisberg, but other than I’ll blog some narrative reports it’ll stop there. I’m doing Gamma Galaxy during the Civil War so front or second line is a little fuzzy and we probably have no business being involved in the first place.
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Just wanted to jump on here with something I thought the Unkindness might find interesting. In the TTS: Wynn's Roost the planetary government has apparently considered several ideas for alternate trials should any clan, or the Ravens in particular turn an eye towards them. One is apparently a dance off. Should someone tell them about the disco elementals?
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note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
Have you tried swarming people with Ghost Targets using the Roc 4 and low Gunnery? 8)
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Should someone tell them about the disco elementals?
No one tells you about Disco Elementals; you have to experience them for yourself...
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Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?
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Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?
If the Bears take it, then the Ravens are invited along as their new aerospace/navy.
If anyone else takes it, the Ravens will continue on as they are.
Either way leaves ample opportunity to smash some FedRats. >:D
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Anyone care to offer predictions for the Ravens in the upcoming Shattered Fortress and ilClan?
Likely offering a ride to Terra for a sweet Deal.
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My suspicion is that the Wolves will take Terra and declare themselves IlClan. The other clans will accept the Wolves as "Supreme Allied Commanders" like Eisenhower was in WW2. The Bears and Ravens will then be directed to smack the Combine into submission.
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My suspicion is that the Wolves will take Terra and declare themselves IlClan. The other clans will accept the Wolves as "Supreme Allied Commanders" like Eisenhower was in WW2. The Bears and Ravens will then be directed to smack the Combine into submission.
Better the Wolves than the Falcons. The Bears certainly have the military to do it, but I don't think they have the interest given Dalia Bekker's behavior during the Blackout.
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If the Bears take it, then the Ravens are invited along as their new aerospace/navy.
If anyone else takes it, the Ravens will continue on as they are.
Either way leaves ample opportunity to smash some FedRats. >:D
or Dracs. The Ravens have shown themselves to be fully capable of betrayal
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I would be deeply surprised if the ilClan was any other than Clan Wolf. The Falcons are simply too unstable. The Bears seem to be content to remain in their OZ.
Let us all pray that the Star Adders never return...
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or Dracs. The Ravens have shown themselves to be fully capable of betrayal
Well, there is that bit of bad blood with the Dracs. Remember, it was the Raven's retaliation that got them Abjured.
Honestly, though, I'm more interested in how ilClan will affect the Escorpión Imperio.
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note: I might consider swapping some of the Rocs 1s for Roc 4s, if I expect someone is using c3
Even if he's not using C3, Roc 4s can ruin someone's day if you are running with Ghost Target rules. Since protos don't have Pilot skills, they use their Gunnery on the roll.
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Let us all pray that the Star Adders never return...
Shoots at Crow when he hears the calling of Star Adders.... " Where's they at? Let go of me, gotta get sum Adderskins for the collection! "
TT
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Well, zero mention of us in Shattered Dawn. I didn't expect a huge amount of Raven goodness happening, but I was hoping for something. sigh...
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I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.
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I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.
Sounds about right for the Ravens.
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Well, zero mention of us in Shattered Dawn. I didn't expect a huge amount of Raven goodness happening, but I was hoping for something. sigh...
Hey, it means our faction wasn't beaten with the fiat stick and killed off. Be grateful! ;D
I honestly didn't expect any mention of the Ravens. Biding their time for the big fight.
Exactly. Let the groundpounders beat each other into a pulp, let them dance their merry dance, while we warp in at the pirate point to call down orbital strikes finishing off the "victors."
Shoots at Crow when he hears the calling of Star Adders.... " Where's they at? Let go of me, gotta get sum Adderskins for the collection! "
The Return of the Adder is the only thing I fear. It will not be pretty.
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Oops. I strangely mind-blanked and completely forgot about this thread and started a Raven Alliance topic here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0)
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Oops. I strangely mind-blanked and completely forgot about this thread and started a Raven Alliance topic here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62561.0)
For shame, lumping the Ravens into the periphery. Tsk.
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For shame, lumping the Ravens into the periphery. Tsk.
Rocket ships, laser guns and anthropology. How hard could it be?
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No Raven fan service in Shattered Fortress >:(
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Hopefully something cool in ilClan.
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I would prefer whatever happens in the sequel to be something more than the Ravens become Wolf lap-birds.
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Oh, me too. But it'd be fun to corrupt the Wolves as their 'allies' ;)
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Alaric may be hard to corrupt; He's already half-way there. :D
Hmmm...
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That means the job is halfway done 🧐
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If we survive as part of some grand ilClan led government, I see a long line of saKhans of the Navy, Grand Admirals, or whatever, from House McKenna. Even the ilClan knows we rule the stars.
If there is a unified military, we should also rule the skies with our Outworlds brothers. It should be a good competition between the two.
So much ortillery. :drool: So many planes. :drool:
IlClan, just let the Ravens take care of your big, complicated space toys. You go play with your mechs. If you need us, we'll be up here in space. Tracking your every move...
Meow Liao
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The Ghost Bears support this.... as long as you let us use you as taxis to air drop our Elementals.
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The Ghost Bears support this.... as long as you let us use you as taxis to air drop our Elementals.
I mean, I really assumed this was an understood part of the relationship. The Ravens have always been willing to be the designated driver for the Bears. Because sometimes the Ravens need a really, really big angry guy to punch people.
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And of course when our paired Leviathan III's are up and running we have to take them on a test drive together.
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I mean, I really assumed this was an understood part of the relationship. The Ravens have always been willing to be the designated driver for the Bears. Because sometimes the Ravens need a really, really big angry guy to punch people.
So clan Uber? It sounds like you guys treat us like John Wick. Would explain how uncle chandy got us into the jihad...they killed our dog.
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Raven roll call. State your vat name and phenotype
Seraphim Crow
Protomech warrior
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Are the ravens building warships post 3080s? Or are they just maintaining what they still have?
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Are the ravens building warships post 3080s? Or are they just maintaining what they still have?
Post-Jihad they're going the other direction: shrinking the fleet by putting WarShips in mothballs.
But in-universe rumor as of the Dark Age is that they're starting to press some hulls back into service.
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The write-up for the Leviathan III suggests they may be building warships again.
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Leviathan III? A Quartre Belle production?
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The Lev III's are believed to be in production at Alshain. The entry hinted at Raven involvement.
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Makes complete sense, the conversation must have been along the lines of," hey ravens, wanna make a scary warship?" To which they replied," does a Ghost Bear defecate in the woods?"
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They do in Horse Country...
TT
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Trees thus woods struggle to grow in tundra.
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i still think the Raven Alliance should be the first one who made a LAOM ( Land Air OmniMech) called Snow Raven III a totem Mech who can Support the Ground Units and even the Fleet.
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I'd want some changes in LAMs to make them less... crap at everything.
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Why ?
LAM are cool and it should give more as a few
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LAMs are not that hot when you think about how ubiquitous LBX and HAG flak is in the era 3075+. One crit and you can't transform out of Airmech mode. That kind if bites. Also LAMs are so slow in the air that really only do well when there are no other ASFs around that might get on their tail. Someone did a Snow Raven LAM back on Solaris7 way back when. I wish that I could find it.
Glider Protomechs however, I think show promise.
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i still think the Raven Alliance should be the first one who made a LAOM ( Land Air OmniMech) called Snow Raven III a totem Mech who can Support the Ground Units and even the Fleet.
FWIW, under the construction rules, omnimech/omnifighter technology in incompatible with LAMs. (But maybe for a Boondoggles TRO...)
LAMs also cannot benefit from the weight savings of XL engines, endo-steel structure, or ferro- armors under the construction rules. So while they get some bump from Clan freezers and lightweight weapons, LAMs will still be inferior to Clantech mechs and fighters in their respective environments.
Thanks to the Blakies and Manei Domini, we've actually seen canon Clantech LAMs. Look up the Pwwka, Waneta, and Yurei. (They're on Sarna.) While I'm sure those designs can be improved, they're nothing to write home about, either.
I think a better idea would be a Raven version of the Horse QuadVees. Raven aerospace fighters that can convert to hardened WIGEs or hovertanks like Horse quad mechs that can convert to hardened tracked or wheeled tanks. I have not explored the concept, so no guarantees it could be made to work with a reasonable ruleset. But "AeroVees" at least have some precedent in the QuadVee, and probably make some sense in-universe for planetary landings.
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Now I need to stage a battle between Horse Autobots and LIAM decepticons
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Natasha i break this rules for an LAOM (<- OmniMech) also a new Experimental Clan Version
Why SRV-3 because SRV-1 was to little for the weapons and SRV-2 have problems with transforming and so stuck in fighter mode ...
I thinks this rules are made because the unseen Problem and so i vote for bring them back and the Construcktion Rules are for I.S. LAM
But i speak from an experimental new type of Mech
(I use the LAM Rules for an Example and use Disign Quirks for to made it. The Clan would use some of this Technologies becaus is normal for them!)
I love transformation stuff and LAM/FLUM and QuadVee are great ideas who should not gone (is just my view)
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Are the Raven fans still active? I miss my spacefaring friends in the Outworlds.
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With the new DMC game out, I'm suddenly reminded that one of the primary manufacturing planets that the Ravens now have is Dante...
Anyone want to create a mech called Sparda?
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Are the Raven fans still active? I miss my spacefaring friends in the Outworlds.
I am.
Sadly we have no new Raveny info. We got left out of Shattered Fortress. No mention at all :'(
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hello there,
Any specific reasons why the Ravens are not expanding outwards? there are a lot of planets in the Wastes that could do well and contribute to the collective with some Outworlds re-colonialism. This has puzled me for a while.
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Nothing that we've been given officially. My guess would be that the Ravens lost so much population during the move to the Outworlds, which is itself very low population, it has been a rebuilding game since then.
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I am.
Sadly we have no new Raveny info. We got left out of Shattered Fortress. No mention at all :'(
That's because you always save the best for last!
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That's because you always save the best for last!
We can but hope.
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really I think if the Raven's do anything it will be to punch the Combine in the back of the head at a very opportune moment for the Ravens, otherwise its a sit back and wait case and when INSERT CLAN NAME HERE goes "We are the IlClan!" the Raven's reaction will basically be.
(https://i.imgur.com/sghf4.gif)
Along with some diplomatic platitudes and other niceities and that's about it. There's simply too much distance between them and the IlClan for them to be able to do anything if they didn't bend the knee and the IlClan is probably going to have trouble enough from ALL its borders to be able to punish the Ravens for any slight. Its the same kind of situation with the Dominion, whereas the Ravens have distance and 3/4 of the Combine in the way. The Dominion has its military and industrial strength largely unafffected by all the goings on and they can politely ignore the ilClan jumping up and down or making demands.
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Its the same kind of situation with the Dominion, whereas the Ravens have distance and 3/4 of the Combine in the way. The Dominion has its military and industrial strength largely unafffected by all the goings on and they can politely ignore the ilClan jumping up and down or making demands.
How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.
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How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4w5sqP13AsU/SKR7nRgIWmI/AAAAAAAAC2c/2_glqAOp5dc/s320/polar+bear+smile.jpg)
*laughs in Ghost Bear*
But yeah the Bear's have had a lot going their way even if their stuff of late has basically been boring since the Nova Cats went away. The poor cats they were not just holding the idiot ball but had ingested it. There's NO reason other than idiocy that they would constantly walk up to the Bears/Dominion, slap their beer out of their hand, spit on their chest and then go "You want some!?" and then act like the Injured party who was the victim of an injustice when they got their teeth kicked in. Only to go back once out of hospital to do it again! :S
But regarding the Ravens, they've got a lot of growing to do, they also have a LOT of worlds to exploit and considering that they went into territory occupied by the Space Amish with all they had on their backs, its taken a lot of time to build up, but the Raven's have not had much in the way of disasters happen to them since the Dark Ages IIRC and are quite happy up in their corner of the Inner Sphere.
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The consensus on the forums is that the IlClan is going to go on a rip roaring rampage of revenge through the Great Houses.
Failure to bend the knee will paint a target on you. Clans have long memories and neither the Alliance or Dominion is as strong as a Great House. Just saying...
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hello there,
Any specific reasons why the Ravens are not expanding outwards? there are a lot of planets in the Wastes that could do well and contribute to the collective with some Outworlds re-colonialism. This has puzled me for a while.
Who says they haven't? The Ravens are known for subterfuge. They may have five galaxies, a naval star of Leviathans, and millions of citizens waiting in secret.
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Who says they haven't? The Ravens are known for subterfuge. They may have five galaxies, a naval star of Leviathans, and millions of citizens waiting in secret.
Heh, even I don't think they have that. Though it would be in character for them to have a secret base somewhere in the Wastes. But I couldn't put more than 2 galaxies, and a star of mixed-sized warships (and I super, super doubt they have any more real warships at all, those things were just tracked too well - a few stars of light-Castrum pocket warships on the other hand...).
Mothballing Quatre Belle in the 3090s could have been a cover for moving a portion of the yards. And their frequent forays into the Wastes with their warships could easily have involved moving supplies and personnel.
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The consensus on the forums is that the IlClan is going to go on a rip roaring rampage of revenge through the Great Houses.
Failure to bend the knee will paint a target on you. Clans have long memories and neither the Alliance or Dominion is as strong as a Great House. Just saying...
This I don't actually doubt. But the problem is that's going to take time. As far as we know there's going to be 3 players in the final fight
Falcons
Republic
Wolves
and again there could be more, the Bears might turn up unannounced etc, but at the end of the book the fleet jumping in MUST be the Falcons, Malvina's insane and she simply can't let the Wolves get the big shiny prize. Of the other Clans that we know of the Horses don't have the military strength to pull off a move like throw everything at Terra and the Falcons and Lyrans and Republic are still in the way. The Ravens are in the same boat but even further separated by distance and at the short end of the military stick, and the Bear/Dominion simply does not seem interested and is happily gobbling up Kuritan space with no real movement towards the Republic. That leaves us with two, the Falcons who are lead by an Omnicidal maniac and the Wolves who are lead by a guy who's name has some serious historical conqueror connotations to it.
Who ever wins out of the Falcons and Wolves (At a guess) they are going to be in no fit state right away to do much other than plant flags everwhere and get REALLY drunk in the party afterwards. Their Toumans are gonna be beat up, even if, again, assuming here, the surviving RAF forces either join them or stand down, and don't keep fighting in other systems etc. And the other Houses in the region then don't go "Oh naw you didn't!" And attack on their own. Assuming that the IlClan can hold onto what its captured and secured Terra and the surrounding systems as well as preventing uprisings etc and rebuilding factories and so on and so on. THEN they could think about going on an extremely vigerous walk to Marik space or Lyran space .
Just securing Terra and all the other stuff could take anywhere up to a decade before the populace stop trying to leave landmines in your beds for all we know.
Sure after 10, 20 years after the IlClan has actually secured its holdings and expanded, then the more outlying Clans IE the Bears and Ravens and the scattered Sharkfoxes might very well bend the knee and all hail the ilClan. But whilst the IlClanship is a win condition for the Clans, and back during REVIVAL it MIGHT have been an instant win condition (assuming the Clans political rivalries and inter clan rivalries don't make them turn Terra into a Mech Moshpit). Nowdays, over a hundred years later, the instant win condition is long gone, and really I don't think anyone really knows what to do or to expect when a Clan becomes ilClan. It's now become a case of
"Now what?"
"I do not know, no one ever thought we would get this far."
And obviously i'm just guessing here, I probably am utterly wrong, and its why I'm counting the days until the 2nd book :D
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Quote from XTRO RotS 3, page 17:
"ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle."
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Quote from XTRO RotS 3, page 17:
"ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle."
Oh yes! I forgot that :D So yeah the Ravens are doing -something- we just dunno what that is.
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It could be a Horse-drawn Buggy IIC manufacturing facility.
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It could be a Horse-drawn Buggy IIC manufacturing facility.
With capital scale weapons!
Aw, wouldn't THAt be awesome! :D
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How the bears have everything perfect all the time irks me.
Losing half of your Touman in a berserker's wild goose chase after the Not-Named is hardly perfect.
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Hello ravens,
After re reading FM crusader clans ( man those books were great!) in the blood spirit section their snow raven ilchi or ambassador wants to pursue a mutually beneficial alliance or partnership but is hazy on the details.
Now before and after the Burrock absorption the ravens and spirits assisted one another but if the spirits had not wasted so much of their strength by jumping into the absorption and had instead went to the ravens to plot out how to contain or weaken the adders who would have been flush with new strength what would that look like?
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Raven pragmatism would have prevented them from antagonizing the Adders. Maybe, they could have gotten the Spirits to take a step back.
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Raven pragmatism would have prevented them from antagonizing the Adders. Maybe, they could have gotten the Spirits to take a step back.
But raven pragmatism ( which I dig) also made them realize what a threat the adders would become
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Which would be an even greater incentive to ally with the Adders.
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Has anyone ever used Protomechs in space battles? What's been good, and what has been better on the ground (like Hippogriffs in their fluff.) I'm honestly a little surprised there aren't any dedicated space Protomechs made, although if the Hippo ever gets a variant a space version would make sense.
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I have always been unclear on why, a clan that focuses on aerofighters and can usually gain air superiority, would focus their ground units to combat enemy air support? An example of this is the Kodiak 3 with its double LBX-20s, "tied to the Ravens innate aerospace bias"
I could understand the Vipers or the Coyotes employing this since they fight aerospace dominate clans.
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I have always been unclear on why, a clan that focuses on aerofighters and can usually gain air superiority, would focus their ground units to combat enemy air support? An example of this is the Kodiak 3 with its double LBX-20s, "tied to the Ravens innate aerospace bias"
I could understand the Vipers or the Coyotes employing this since they fight aerospace dominate clans.
Internal Trials maybe. Those are more likely than Trials with other clans
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The simplest explanation is usually right. Thank you.
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There could also be the thought of "We know how damaging it can be if ground forces are ever caught without aerospace cover, so just in case the aerospace fighters are off doing something else, here's an idea to make sure the ground forces aren't completely screwed."
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Maybe they just like making cockpit salsa?
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Haha thanks Foxx!
That does make sense, just seems a low chance given the sheer numbers the Ravens have.
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Another good reason could be they can only produce so much, so they trade/buy from the Ghost Bears.
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There could also be the thought of "We know how damaging it can be if ground forces are ever caught without aerospace cover, so just in case the aerospace fighters are off doing something else, here's an idea to make sure the ground forces aren't completely screwed."
I like this explanation equally well. Also, leaving anti-air capability with your ground forces frees up Raven fighters to strafe enemy formations.
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On the surface that sounds reasonable, except that Raven second line clusters are made up of Triads and that gives the average cluster 50 fighters as opposed to 30. The only time they would lose air superiority is if they fought one of their own Stoops clusters or a Cobra equivalent. (I cant remember their specific name) Where they have 2 Trinary of fighter. Even if you give the Raven second line cluster an R-Team, that is still 4 Triads: 40 fighters.
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On the very last page of TRO3150, there’s an NTNU entry for the Ravens’ new Gorgon 5 Protomech variant. Supposedly has Streaks (LRM or SRM unspecified) and MagClamps (for mechanization).
I don’t think the RS has been printed, but thought I’d doublecheck here and make sure no one has the official stats.
Any help much appreciated. Thx.
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On the surface that sounds reasonable, except that Raven second line clusters are made up of Triads and that gives the average cluster 50 fighters as opposed to 30. The only time they would lose air superiority is if they fought one of their own Stoops clusters or a Cobra equivalent. (I cant remember their specific name) Where they have 2 Trinary of fighter. Even if you give the Raven second line cluster an R-Team, that is still 4 Triads: 40 fighters.
Bear in mind that the Ravens most frequent opponent is the DCMS, which is notable for being aerospace-heavy.
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Ho, Snow Raven.
As my current green-feathered Khan to be a frothing lunatic that is attempting to depopulate every other planet she conquers and I'm wanting to use protos while staying relevant in the timeline, I've been considering trying to become a bondsman of the Raven Alliance.
Are there really only three galaxies left to the RA Touman (Alpha, Gamma, and Delta)? Are there other provisional or perhaps not as well known units that are part of the military?
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Don’t forget Beta galaxy. All of this assumes the Ravens have been truthful about their troop strength. Remember all the troops the WOB pulled out of hiding at the dawn of the Jihad. >:D
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There's also the AMC Militia. Lots of clan cast offs for ASF, and other stuff.
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On the very last page of TRO3150, there’s an NTNU entry for the Ravens’ new Gorgon 5 Protomech variant. Supposedly has Streaks (LRM or SRM unspecified) and MagClamps (for mechanization).
I don’t think the RS has been printed, but thought I’d doublecheck here and make sure no one has the official stats.
Any help much appreciated. Thx.
Well given that the base Gorgon has about 3.5 tons of space, minus 500kg for the mag clamp, the Gorgon 5 could conceivably mount a Streak LRM 6(12) or a Streak SRM 5(10), assuming minimal armor changes. It would necessarily have to mount the missiles in a main gun, they weigh more than 2000kg
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Hail, Snow Raven thread. I've decided to paint all of my Kickstarer rewards as Clan Snow Raven's Epsilon Galaxy. I'm currently in as a Bloodnamed, but may upgrade to Star Colonel after GenCon. Does the following sound at all like a Snow Raven-y Cluster?
Dire Wolf, Executioner, Gladiator, Warhawk, Nova Cat (all slower than 5/8 base)
Timber Wolf, Summoner, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, Gargoyle (all 5/8)
Adder, Stormcrow, Kit Fox, Cougar, Battle Cobra (no jump, Medium or lower, 6/9 except the Cougar)
Grendel, Mist Lynx, Viper, Black Lanner, Shadow Cat (FAST! 6/9 with MASC or faster)
Fire Falcon, Arctic Cheetah, Ice Ferret, Fire Moth, Hellion (VERY FAST! 8/12 or faster)
5 Points Elementals
2 Points Elementals; 3 points Protomechs
5 points Protomechs
6x Visigoth, 2x Turk, 2x Sabutai
I know the Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, and Cougar are primarily Falcon designs, but the rest of the Star packs have equally not-Raven 'Mechs (Kodiak, Turkina) or have non-Omnis in them.
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Dire Wolf
Gargoyle
Hellbringer
Grendel
Battle Cobra
Hellion
These depend on the era. They are on the Raven MUL during the Clan Invasion. They’re gone by the Dark Age.
Arctic Cheetah
Fire Falcon
Cougar
Ice Ferret
Black Lanner
Viper
These never appear on a Raven MUL. Too Falcony or Wolfish or Hellionic, apparently. I’d make an exception for the Viper as it’s an allied Bear design and appears on the Clan General MULs during the Clan Invasion era.
Executioner, Gladiator,
These are the same thing. It’s a Bear design and the Ravens are their allies. Present thru the Dark Age and it’s the Ravens’ heaviest Omni by then.
Stormcrow,
This is the classic Raven Omni, as they refined the original Horse design after Tokasha and apparently still produce it in the Dark Age. It’s arguably the second best Clan Omni. I’d double and triple down on it and make it the core of a frontline Raven unit.
Kodiak
The Ravens have their own variant, the Kodiak 3, apparently from trade with the allied Bears.
The uniquely Raven mechs are the Dark Crow, Omen, and Deimos. If playing a later era, you could pick these up for flavor. The Deimos in particular has some pretty nasty configs.
If I didn’t mention it above, then the mechs from your post (Timberwolf, Summoner, Mad Dog, Adder, Mist Lynx, Shadow Cat, etc.) are present in the Raven MULs during both the Clan Invasion and Dark Age.
Hope this helps.
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Scotty,
Be advised that Epsilon never made it out of the clan homeworlds.
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That's fine. I'm not about to leave them on a shelf just because such and such fight never "really" happened.
I'm not sure what I missed when I typed Gladiator; each Omni here is from the Clan Box and Star packs. I will not be augmenting it with metal. Ultimately I think I'm okay with 80% on the MUL. I like the scheme too much. :D
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That's a pretty high fraction of omnis for a second line galaxy, but then again, Ravens have a run a high percentage of Omnis anyway.
Honestly, I would double or triple up on the following: Kit Fox, Nova, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Timberwolf as these are probably the most common Raven omnis. Raven ground forces have a "generic but faster than 5/8" flavor dominated by 3050 designs. If it's a second line cluster I would sprinkle in a bit more Shadowhawk IIC, Hunchback IIC, Clint IIC, Warhammer IIC
Barring Zeta Galaxy (dearly departed :'( ) Protomech formations seem to be entirely adhoc, so don't count them towards the typical Triad, instead they're tacked on extra
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What would everyone's ideal naval star consist of?
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Nightlord, McKenna or Texas, Potempkin, and probably a pair of Lola-III or Aegis’s to round it out.
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Four Leviathans and a Potempkin. :D
Granted, it would be a bit expensive.
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Three Yorks and a Conqueror with a Liberator backup.
Allows me to transport 14 droppers and a @#%$#!!! full of ASF to a combat zone and escape out if it gets to heavy!
TT
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How could I forget the Leviathan! *head desk repeatedly*
Leviathan III, Nightlord, Potempkin, and at that point McKenna and Texas. I’d probably still want to add a couple of Lola III’s or Aegis’s for support but if not the Droppers and ASF would serve: you have enough of them.
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Four Leviathans and a Potempkin. :D
Granted, it would be a bit expensive.
I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
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I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
A perfect reason for the Clans to develop Soylent Green ;)
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I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
Three Yorks and a Conqueror with a Liberator backup.
Allows me to transport 14 droppers and a @#%$#!!! full of ASF to a combat zone and escape out if it gets to heavy!
TT
I forgot I even have a full Cluster of Clan Space Marines... all 1,200 + Troopers! With Elemental BA support...
( 20 Troopers per Point x 5 per Star x 3 per Trinary x 4ish... ( average is 3-5 Trinaries per Cluster ))
TT
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I don't want to imagine trying to feed all those aero pilots.
We all know that the only things those pilots will need is booze and men/women of negotiable virtue. Food is secondary.
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Naw, that's an Impero thing... booze. But they call it a Necrosa!, it's highly addicting from what I've heard, quiaff?
TT
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A perfect reason for the Clans to develop Soylent Green ;)
Did you get a bloodname? No!! Then your giftake is going to a different program!
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Odyssey, Aesir, Vanir, 2 x Nagasawa.
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I am back after a long time break!
But from time to time i read you guys ^-^
I think the Raven still establishing them self in the Politic of the Outworld Alliance and rebuild there toumand.
Look how many Ships they lost by moving from the Homeworlds to the Inner Sphere.
The Ghost Bears and Ravens are sure have some Battles together (like in old days)
I really welcome the Merging of this 2 Factions the Outworld Alliance fit very well for the Revans
I hope to see in futre more moving for the Raven Alliance by expanding upward and recolonise the starsystems like they had in 3145 MAP
a litte more closer Stand to the Gost Bears would be nice
And like i said before they need the first CLAM (CLAN Land-Air-Mechs)
I think the Jade Falcon can use some LAM too becaus of the Birdtotem but the Raven sould be sure the 1st one.
The Raven way of thinking and the Raven strategie for Aircrafts and not well use of Mechs made LAMs/LAOM to first choice.
And in my thinkings i made no stop by CLAMs i go far to LAOM (Land-Air-Omni-Mechs)
I question will be threre a future alliance with Davion or not ?!? what you guys think ?
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TPTB will do what they want, which is normally unpredictable. My guess is that they will want to keep the sides relatively balanced, which was why the Federated Commonwealth had to die. Knowing if the Ravens and Suns will ally will depend on what other alliances materialized. Whatever happens, the Ravens will try to play both sides.
As for LAMS, when the Nova Cats captured the last LAM factory, they methodically destroyed everything because it offended their sense of caste (mechwarrior vs. pilot). Even if the Ravens weren't offended in this manner, they would calculate that other clans would be and realize that they were pinning a target on their back. For this reason, they will not attempt to revive LAMs.
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One could say that there is a subconscious desire for LAMs in certain Clans, but being expressed through designs with Partial Wings and Improved Jump Jets.
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TPTB will do what they want, which is normally unpredictable. My guess is that they will want to keep the sides relatively balanced, which was why the Federated Commonwealth had to die. Knowing if the Ravens and Suns will ally will depend on what other alliances materialized. Whatever happens, the Ravens will try to play both sides.
As for LAMS, when the Nova Cats captured the last LAM factory, they methodically destroyed everything because it offended their sense of caste (mechwarrior vs. pilot). Even if the Ravens weren't offended in this manner, they would calculate that other clans would be and realize that they were pinning a target on their back. For this reason, they will not attempt to revive LAMs.
On the other hand, that was then, this is now. We've got a mixture of Aerospace and Ground combat with ProtoMechs (aerospace pilots, ground combat), and there's the TankWarrior, which is a mixture of Elemental and MW, then there's the QuadVee, and the mixture of MW and Elemental with the Neural Interface System.
What will probably keep LAMs from appearing in the Clans is the fact that the new rules pretty much crippled any chance for the LAMs to actually be useful...
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The Ravens watched the Wolverines get annihilated for innovating. I doubt they will want to draw attention to themselves for a technology that doesn't provide the greatest results to begin with.
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They watched the Wolverines get annihilated for innovating (supposedly) 300 years ago. Since then you have Phenotypes, Armored Infantry, ProtoMechs, Clantech in general, Omnitech...you've got an invasion of the Inner Sphere, a Wars of Reaving, you've got two (in the IS atleast) Clans that have integrated into Inner Sphere factions to one degree or another.
"We're going to produce a LAM" is hardly going to garner a twitch of reaction.
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One must remember that the Falcons, the most traditional of the Clans, were experimenting with LAMs on Huntress during the Twilight of the Clans novel series. It should be no surprise if the Ravens, or even the Cobras, experimented with the tech, especially if it were early in the history of the clans.
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Right. What if the Nova Cats' reaction of torching the LAM facility was peculiar to only their Clan, and was not a reflection of the Clans attitude as a whole? LAMs and the Ravens seem to go hand in hand.
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Plus you could have the Amish part of your touman use it.
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Question for you Raven fans:
As of 3060, Aeroyard Gargain is owned and operated by Clan Snow Raven.
And in 3088 Clan Stone Lion owns it (100%).
Would it still be around in 3088, the production lines?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bearclaw (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bearclaw)
TT
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I don't see specific mention of that facility being destroyed.
And there is reference to facilities being repaired.
So... maybe?
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If the Ravens boxed it up during the departure from the homeworlds, the important part of the yards may have been by the Vipers.
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What is the consensus about the possibility of Raven Triads in the Dark Age replacing their ASFs with VTOLs (ie the Gossamer).
Perhaps one of the Triads in a Cluster could be converted to an ASF Trinary or some Triads could retain ASFs
Even with this slight reduction, from the FM:3145 the amount of ASFs in the Raven Alliance is massive - it is stated that with the mobilization of the Naval ASFs that this force is larger than the normal Touman ASF and AMC ASF forces combined.
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I need folks imput and thoughts here!
The Clan Snow Raven Dress uniform is described as.
A snug-fitting, snow white woolen jacket and trousers is the Snow Raven's dress uniform. Black chevrons cover the upper torso and back, crossing the flared shoulders and merging with the black full length cape. Black boots and belt complete the uniform
And I simply can't even visualise how that would look other than a flaming hot mess that's very 'extra' if we're being polite.
Now, totally unrelated to this and asked for no good reason what so ever related to possible future projects *coughs* instead of...well..*points up* that...something more akin to this is used as a reference.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z9KnplU.png)
Keep the white trousers and sleeves, turn the blue jacket into a black one with white piping, the coat gets turned into a white cloak but with a black inner and various changes to belts etc and frogging.
Ya think that would look good as a Snow Raven officer's dress uniform? Again. Asking for no particular reason...
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It sounds like a marching band torso.
And is this a preposed related question to a certain late July -early August party in Indy IN perhaps...
TT
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I'm... back?
Hey.
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Nice to see you, again? ;D
Where ya been?
TT
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Welcome back! It's been pretty quiet in here.
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Hi Nibs and the other Ravens who are watching the thread.
As you can see, It's been really quiet. We've had nothing new in the fiction, so we've had nothing to talk about.
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Got a thinker here...
Ideal 3155ish fleet, what's your take?
Any Clan and IS jumper, both combat and non...
Include any dropper class and what productions you'd use...
Have fun,
Truetanker
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I've been perusing the last eight years of fiction and TROs since I last touched anything BattleTech. Goodness! The possibility of Raven involvement in Palmyra was delightful.
Mostly, I've been drawn back in again by the Kickstarter. I went in for Star Commander, to add to my little Raven force of a Nova (both arms have fallen off), Stormcrow, Deimos, and Shadow Cat. Combined, I figure I could have a nice OmniMech Binary with a couple Elemental Points. Thinking about getting three Salamander Points to round out the battle armour Star and then a Point of Rocs for fun. I've always been a huge ProtoMech fan.
I have been also considering making an Alliance Military Corps lance to go along with my Ravens. I could even add the Rocs in a combined force, as per canon in FM:3085. Currently, I'm thinking of a Merlin, Night Hawk, Stinger IIC, and maybe a Klondike-era Firefly inherited by the AMC. The art for that one is too rad.
For the Kickstarter UrbanMech, I was thinking of making a scratch force of Ramora Planetary Militia centred around it. A personal favourite of mine, Ramora was also noted for having "Surat" Grey Death Standard defending it from a pirate raid. Throw in some light vehicles and a planetary defense force forms!
I love it when a plan comes together.
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Hey trothkin,
I'm building a Raven Alliance protomech binary (which might also serve as a Society false flag force in a campaign). I have 80% of the minis, but I can't decide if I should use Satyr 2, Chysaor 2 to complement this force:
10 Centaur 4
10 Roc
10 Gorgon 3
10 Minoaur 3
Note: I'm not going to bother with using Satyr 1s for scouting, because that's what ASFs with BAP are for ;)
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I would suggest the Chysaor 2, it is slightly less mobile but the firepower increase helps it in every role.
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I would suggest the Chysaor 2, it is slightly less mobile but the firepower increase helps it in every role.
Aye, that's what I was inclined to as well. Piggy it is! *oink*
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So the WarCrow......
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=57647.msg1620754#msg1620754
Possible Raven 'Mech?
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I mean, it would make sense. I guess we'll start finding out soon as the Recognition Guides start coming out. Looking forward to new stuff ;D
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Could the War Crow be an Omniversion of the Dark Crow?
I think that I can make it work.
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Have to admit, I would really like that. The aesthetics of the Dark Crow really stand out. Actually prompted me to start buying mini's again. I'd like to see Raven mechs continue to have that sort of uniqueness.
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If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?
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Stinger IIC
Clint IIC
Stormcrow
Mad Dog
Deimos
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If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?
Hellion
Kit Fox
Stormcrow
Mad Dog (Mk III or IV)
Deimos
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Fire Moth
Adder
Storm Crow
Mad Dog
Deimos
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Deimos
Vulture III
Stormcrow
Skinwalker (Ryoken III)
Kit Fox
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I love the deimos so I'm happy yo see it's a constant choice. What's everyone's favorite loadout?
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I'm happy with the Prime configuration. It's well-balanced and has no problems with heat.
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I see the appeal of the Prime, but am partial to the A myself. I really want to test out the S, alas I've not had the opportunity.
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Question for the Ravens...
I thought the Ravens were capable of building Lola III's and Fredasas.
Can a Raven fan confirm or deny this? Or am I mistaken? Either way is fine.
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Question for the Ravens...
I thought the Ravens were capable of building Lola III's and Fredasas.
Can a Raven fan confirm or deny this? Or am I mistaken? Either way is fine.
So far as I can recall, Quatre Belle is the only facility for starship construction in the Raven Alliance. It builds JumpShips and is capable of repairing WarShips. I don't recall any mention of the Ravens having the ability to manufacture new WarShips.
I'll double check to be sure.
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There is no information on warship construction beyond speculation and rumor.
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There is no information on warship construction beyond speculation and rumor.
^^ This.
Just finished looking through my PDFs. JumpShips only at Quatre Belle, and there's no mention of what classes are manufactured there either.
WarShips are pretty much defunct during the Dark Age. Given the rise of the Pocket WarShip, we're unlikely to see their return, though I would happily be proven wrong.
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Thanks for the info, guys.
I hope the Warships make a return, as well. If so, I'm sure the Raven will lead the way.
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P17 XTRO Republic III
Fear of sabotage over the last decade has seen security at Clan shipyards improved so that access is nearly impossible, but ongoing probes by the DMI have revealed rumors of further construction at Quatre Belle.
Someone thinks they can build Warships.
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Yes! If anyone can do it, it is the Snow Raven.
Thanks for chiming in with that information, Jellico.
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Barring a change of BattleTech universe focus, I wouldn't imagine that we see a significant rise of WarShip numbers. As a literary choice, the Two-Power Standard navy of the pre-War of Reavings Snow Ravens was fun and fine, but I doubt that we'll see a "Ravens increase WarShip navy from 17 to 30!" event. If more WarShips appear, I would predict that the Ravens may gain a single ship of a brand-new class. Better for TROs, better for story, better for dynamic change in the universe, and better for not breaking faction balance.
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Yes! If anyone can do it, it is the Snow Raven.
<Alshain shipyard> Am I a joke to you!!!
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The first rule of Alshain Naval Yard
is you don't mention Alshain Naval Yard.
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P17 XTRO Republic III
Someone thinks they can build Warships.
I'd forgotten that reference was there.
<Alshain shipyard> Am I a joke to you!!!
I shall answer that Raven fashion.
...
Yes.
...
No.
...
Maybe.
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Well, who ultimately helped the Bears build Warships in the first place? The Ravens. 8)
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Some nice Raveny stuff in TRO Golden Century. Interestingly, the Raven Alliance appears to have put the Pulverizer back into production. It's making the Fedrats crap their drawers >:D
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I assume/hope with updated weaponry!
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I assume/hope with updated weaponry!
There's a version with full Clan tech
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Some nice Raveny stuff in TRO Golden Century. Interestingly, the Raven Alliance appears to have put the Pulverizer back into production. It's making the Fedrats crap their drawers >:D
It seemed a little vague on whether these are new production models or refits. There's no question that the Ravens are the foremost producers of Warhammer IICs.
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Yeah... the Leviathan III-class a joint Snow Raven/Ghost Bear project. How many are we getting? Who knows for sure. How long will they last? Not a clue, but hopefully long enough to put a smack down on someone (like the IlClan perhaps) and not be destroyed meekly but gloriously in an epic battle.
Also forgot to order Golden Century... must have now.
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Another fun tidbit from the Pulverizer write-up... Snow Ravens designed the Kingfisher.
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Another solid design: man why don’t the Bears and Ravens just merge already lol
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You start on your side of the Combine, we'll start on ours. Meet in the middle.
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You start on your side of the Combine, we'll start on ours. Meet in the middle.
I really hope that becomes a thing in the ilClan era.
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Unless the Combine attacks either faction I foresee the Snow Ravens becoming treasure hunters looking for old Star League Castle Brian’s and the Ghost Bears strengthening their bonds in the Dominion and maybe expanding into the Barrens. According to the Spotlight on: Thermo Police the Snow Ravens have their hands full.
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According to the Spotlight on: Thermo Police the Snow Ravens have their hands full.
Who with?
Also need to buy this why funds allow, TRO:GC is next on the list though.
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Who with?
Also need to buy this why funds allow, TRO:GC is next on the list though.
Basically combing the Ravens with the Outworlds and dealing with systems that have turned pirate or whose infrastructure has collapsed. Not to mention rebuilding their touman.
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^^ This.
Just finished looking through my PDFs. JumpShips only at Quatre Belle, and there's no mention of what classes are manufactured there either.
WarShips are pretty much defunct during the Dark Age. Given the rise of the Pocket WarShip, we're unlikely to see their return, though I would happily be proven wrong.
FM:3085 has Quatre Bell building the Comitatus, Hunter and Odyssey classes.
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Another fun tidbit from the Pulverizer write-up... Snow Ravens designed the Kingfisher.
Sorry for the double post, i'd skipped past this little tidbit, is the Kingfisher getting a new mini in the Kickstarter? And if so do you think we'll get it? Or any other new mechs from the kickstarter?
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Sorry for the double post, i'd skipped past this little tidbit, is the Kingfisher getting a new mini in the Kickstarter? And if so do you think we'll get it? Or any other new mechs from the kickstarter?
Had to look around a bit. Kingfisher redesign art. Not rendered yet.
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Had to look around a bit. Kingfisher redesign art. Not rendered yet.
Nice, hopefully we get to build it, or as a worse case the Dominion builds it and we buy it.
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If you had to standardize the Clan down to five basic omnis, which would you choose?
Kit Fox
Battle Cobra
Stormcrow
Mad Dog (or modern version)
Deimos
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The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers. I would not include it in this list. Maybe substitute Dark Crow.
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The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers. I would not include it in this list. Maybe substitute Dark Crow.
It’s not an Omni, and other Clans (CJF I think) have shown that they will reuse other designs if they call them something else (whatever is happening with the Viper mech turning into the White Raven or whatever it is).
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The Battle Cobra is tainted by its association with the dezgra Steel Vipers. I would not include it in this list. Maybe substitute Dark Crow.
That is not an omni though and would we turn down a good design just because of its previous association, after all we make heavy use of the Howler in our second line forces.
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That is not an omni though and would we turn down a good design just because of its previous association, after all we make heavy use of the Howler in our second line forces.
As well as taking over production of the Pulverizer... continuing to use it as we approach the ilClan era. The supposed 'taint' of the Battle Cobra is nothing by comparison.
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As well as taking over production of the Pulverizer... continuing to use it as we approach the ilClan era. The supposed 'taint' of the Battle Cobra is nothing by comparison.
I had forgotten about the Pulverizer, that is a very good point.
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The Pulverizer was made by wronged friends. The other clans may not have known the truth, but the Ravens did. In contrast, the Vipers were annihilated because they genuinely deserved it. Besides, the mech even looks like a snake. xp
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The Pulverizer was made by wronged friends. The other clans may not have known the truth, but the Ravens did. In contrast, the Vipers were annihilated because they genuinely deserved it. Besides, the mech even looks like a snake. xp
At one point it was known, but knowledge of it was stamped out pretty aggressively by ole Nicky K. I’m sure if he thought the ravens told anyone of the next generation he would have had them go the way of the dodo too.
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Why do you think the Ravens got so tricky? :P
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Battle Cobra? Just say no. Nothing lighter than 50 tons needs to have a standard engine if you're running Clan tech. If you get hit through the side torso, it's going to straight through to the CT. Captured Battle Cobras and Crossbows are for trading with our Blood Spirit allies.
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Would the Phantom be more palatable than the Battle Cobra?
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I mean, more 'Mechs are always a good thing.
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I mean, more 'Mechs are always a good thing.
I just realised we have it on the MUL and it would fill the space for a scout omni chassis, which the Battle Cobra does not.
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Would the Phantom be more palatable than the Battle Cobra?
Certainly. Although I prefer the Shadow Cat or Nova because they are a bit more multi-role (if we're going off Mechs found on the Raven RAT/MUL list)
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For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.
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For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.
Oh? I'm on the other end where I love how it looks. Mech wise I enjoy using it as for me it's a pretty solid mech. It's always performed well enough I've never regretted putting it in a bid, either as anti air or hippidy hoppidy get off my property.
If you play megamek at all you should take it for a spin!
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FM:3085 has Quatre Bell building the Comitatus, Hunter and Odyssey classes.
Those are Jumpers, not Warships.
TT
Correction, system defense, scout and transport.
TT
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For those of you who love the Deimos, what's so cool about it? I haven't played with it, but it seems very... meh. Which is also how I feel about the asthetics, and being someone who wants to love how my Mechs if they don't perform very well, I'd like to try and understand what's neat about it.
I haven't used it myself, but I suspect that it's popular purely because it's Raven-made. The Omen is definitely sexier
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Those are Jumpers, not Warships.
TT
Correction, system defense, scout and transport.
TT
They at least keep the space based operations level alive... and well allows to learn/relearn the skills to make in the future real warships.
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I haven't used it myself, but I suspect that it's popular purely because it's Raven-made. The Omen is definitely sexier
It's definitely situated as the signature Raven assault 'Mech, the pride of the touman. I also haven't used it, mostly because I have an unopened mini in a box. It's been there for... eight years now. :P
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It's definitely situated as the signature Raven assault 'Mech, the pride of the touman. I also haven't used it, mostly because I have an unopened mini in a box. It's been there for... eight years now. :P
Heh, I managed to open my mini, but never got around to assembly and paint. Hmm, should really be doing stuff like that right now.
For configs, I kinda like the B. Nice variety of stopping power there.
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@Doc
Well at least it's a good source for trials. A Star of Odyssey equals alot of transportation power. I mean, dang who's gonna say no to a ripe target enriched with fresh products?
TT
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Psst.
Hey guys.
If you haven't gotten it yet, go get Shrapnel #2.
Some Raveny goodness.
(Yes, this is a shameless plug).
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Psst.
Hey guys.
If you haven't gotten it yet, go get Shrapnel #2.
Some Raveny goodness.
(Yes, this is a shameless plug).
My end thought was, ravens gonna raven!
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It would be nice if we could see more of that sort of thing.
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The future looks bright on that front. Ravens deserve a patron voice to give them life on the pages.
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I don't have my subscription link to Shrapnel #2 yet :-[ , reading Thermal Police as a substitute. Nice to know I wasn't the only one who grew up on Emergency! and ADAM-12 reruns! ;D
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Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman. ;D
I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.
How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.
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Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman. ;D
I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.
How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.
Helps set up on how the Ravens are setting up in Outworlds but not much fluff on them in general. We are talking about a group form the First Succession War to 3100. I thought it was well done and worth purchasing especially since there are no Raven Alliance documents.
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Snow Raven story? That is an automatic purchase! Jaim, you are a good salesman. ;D
I do my best.
I had a brief thought about submitting a story to Shrapnel about Raven ProtoMech pilots, too.
DO IT! Do it now!
How is the Thermo Police document? I thought about picking that up as well.
It's pretty good. Not a lot of Raven details, but what is there lends to some very interesting possibilities.
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Interesting Raven reference on page 13 of Recognition Guide:ilClan Vol.3. Very mysterious...
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DO IT! Do it now!
I wish I had the time to properly do some writing! With schools back in, all I'm writing are lesson plans.
Interesting Raven reference on page 13 of Recognition Guide:ilClan Vol.3. Very mysterious...
I do not want to spoil it - I should purchase it if I really want to know - but any hint on the general time period of this Raven reference? Current timeframe, 3150ish?
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I do not want to spoil it - I should purchase it if I really want to know - but any hint on the general time period of this Raven reference? Current timeframe, 3150ish?
No clear timeframe. I'm assuming sometime within 10 years of the report, so 3140-50, but that's just a guess.
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New toys fellow Ravens! :beer:
The Stormcrow is back in production and there are two new omnimechs: Warcrow is the only one mentioned by name.
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New toys fellow Ravens! :beer:
The Stormcrow is back in production and there are two new omnimechs: Warcrow is the only one mentioned by name.
Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs?
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Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs?
I think we can.
Looking forward to seeing if we get access to any of the Sea Fox produced designs in this RecGuide as well, really hoping we get the Warhammer C 3.
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I think we can.
Looking forward to seeing if we get access to any of the Sea Fox produced designs in this RecGuide as well, really hoping we get the Warhammer C 3.
It's not up to me, but I would think most anything Sea Fox is available for sale, unless specifically stated otherwise (like how the Hammerhead is Clan only)
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Yes a lot of great news, and can we call it mass production, as enough Stormcrows are being sold to fund development of other OmniMechs?
Considering the Ravens sold enough Stormcrows to the Combine that they could afford to mass waves of Stormcrows as shocktroops against Davion Assault Mechs on New Avalon, would require the Ravens to put it into mass production.
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Considering the Ravens sold enough Stormcrows to the Combine that they could afford to mass waves of Stormcrows as shocktroops against Davion Assault Mechs on New Avalon, would require the Ravens to put it into mass production.
Wait, what!? Selling the lovely and amazing Stormcrows to the bad people of the Combine? :(
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Wait, what!? Selling the lovely and amazing Stormcrows to the bad people of the Combine? :(
I was hoping that was a misprint. But it's not.
I thought selling Omni technology to the Spheroids was taboo, to be honest. My Shark Foxes would never stoop so low! ;)
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I was hoping that was a misprint. But it's not.
I thought selling Omni technology to the Sphereoids was taboo, to be honest. My Shark Foxes would never stoop so low! ;)
Typical Shark Foxes, lies! ;)
I just would have thought that the Ravens are generally hard up on their forces and would need 'Mechs, not sell them.
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Typical Shark Foxes, lies! ;)
I just would have thought that the Ravens are generally hard up on their forces and would need 'Mechs, not sell them.
Well now that they live in the IS they have to pay their workers with more than a right to continue living.
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It is being sold "outside".
Doesn’t say the OA is selling them to the Combine. Rather certain DC regiments have a notable number of them.
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Besides, Ravens and the Combine have a ton in common. Like the indiscriminate massacre of the innocent populations of entire planets. Surely that's a good icebreaker for opening trade relations?
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I have to say, the Raven dice and challenge coin from the Kickstarter are gorgeous. Absolutely love them.
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I hope the Ravens have a good role to play. The IlClan will need a Navy one day, and when they do, they'll come to the Raven.
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Besides, Ravens and the Combine have a ton in common. Like the indiscriminate massacre of the innocent populations of entire planets. Surely that's a good icebreaker for opening trade relations?
In the Raven's defense, it was happening during the Jihad when the Ravens were facing possible extinction and they were not of sound mind. For the Combine, it was the traditional way of government. :fine_print:
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In the Raven's defense, it was happening during the Jihad when the Ravens were facing possible extinction and they were not of sound mind. For the Combine, it was the traditional way of government. :fine_print:
They were knew to the Inner Sphere. They were just trying to follow Combine traditions while visiting their worlds.
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They initiated a trial of dont start nothing wont be nothing.
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I’d like to see the Ravens adopt more ideas from the Bears and get their government/economy going. Take back some of the Outland Wastes, write IE a massive check and/or absorb them, and put up a big sign like the Bears that says It dare you to step over that line in (the sand) space we drew: dare ya!’
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Another recognition guide, another new toy. The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D
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Another recognition guide, another new toy. The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D
Bit ugly, but it has a lot more armor and speed than the old howler variant.
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Another recognition guide, another new toy. The Devil is a Raven mech. >:D
Great isn't it and in use both in the Raven clusters and the Alliance Milita. Also interesting that we are assigning Stars of them to worlds of the Alliance who lack garrison forces.
From a quick read this morning we've done well out of this one, we build the Devil, it sounds like we have at least some Howlers in service (either legacy mechs or ones bought from the Falcons via the Foxes?) we should have the Rifleman C 3 from the Foxes as well via trade and i would imagine we will also get access to the Fire Moth and Viper from our friends in the Rasalhague Dominion.
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Another design in production in the Raven Alliance. And there is still another omnimech that was hinted at.
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Great isn't it and in use both in the Raven clusters and the Alliance Milita. Also interesting that we are assigning Stars of them to worlds of the Alliance who lack garrison forces.
From a quick read this morning we've done well out of this one, we build the Devil, it sounds like we have at least some Howlers in service (either legacy mechs or ones bought from the Falcons via the Foxes?) we should have the Rifleman C 3 from the Foxes as well via trade and i would imagine we will also get access to the Fire Moth and Viper from our friends in the Rasalhague Dominion.
And also the Executioner and every Vulture config and chassis known to man likewise through the Dominion.
Between those and the Omen, Deimos, and White Raven plus the Hippogriff Proto I'd be reasonably content with what I could make out of a list for any occasion.
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It's been a little surprising just how much love/attention the RA's been getting in the Recog Guides.
Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
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It's nice to know that the Ravens haven't been sent to the periphery by TPTB to waste away.
Scotty, add the Stormcrow to that list. ;)
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Scotty, add the Stormcrow to that list. ;)
And War Crow.
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And the Dark Crow!
Wait.
no, actually take that one back off.
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And the Dark Crow!
Wait.
no, actually take that one back off.
It is one of the Raven Mechs I do not have a mini of, I don't mind the looks, but for its price I can get something with much better stats.
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And the Dark Crow!
Wait.
no, actually take that one back off.
Hey! I LIKE the Dark Crow. Wish that quirky aesthetic was seen more in some new designs.
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I never liked the Dark Crow aesthetic. Too weird, too wild.
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I never liked the Dark Crow aesthetic. Too weird, too wild.
Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)
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Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)
I miss Spike, how is she?
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I have no problem with the looks of the Dark Crow, but I would have liked a better weapons loadout.
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I have no problem with the looks of the Dark Crow, but I would have liked a better weapons loadout.
Dark Crow design thread?
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Supposedly, I have been told by Spike (for Ravens her old enough to remember her) that the Dark Crow was designed by 3CL and that it was a reference to me. So I have a little fondness for this Mech 8)
That's neat have a little personal connection. :)
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I miss Spike, how is she?
I haven't spoken with Spike in a bit, but at last count she was still kickin' it in St. Louis.
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I haven't spoken with Spike in a bit, but at last count she was still kickin' it in St. Louis.
Good to hear, miss chatting to her.
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Something that's probably nothing. The Republic knows about the Snow Raven's betrayal of the Federated Suns. Soon, Alaric may know it. What do you think Alaric's response will be and how the Snow Ravens will handle it? It is not a good look for the Ravens.
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Something that's probably nothing. The Republic knows about the Snow Raven's betrayal of the Federated Suns. Soon, Alaric may know it. What do you think Alaric's response will be and how the Snow Ravens will handle it? It is not a good look for the Ravens.
It might not parse as negatively as you think. Caleb Davion is not exactly the sort of person who would inspire a lot of confidence to begin with, and his demonstrably bad strategies can be cited as reason enough for the Snow Ravens to drop him (and his nation) like cutting an anchor chain that's dragging you into an abyss.
Even among the Clans themselves, maintaining an alliance with that level of dangerously incompetent, is dangerously incompetent.
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There's what we see and what the people in the world see. Much of what Caleb was and wasn't is not public knowledge in universe. I've seen little that says the perception of Caleb shouldn't be anything other than a martyr. If you have anything that says the public perception of Caleb was that he was a nutso, then point me to it.
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There's what we see and what the people in the world see. Much of what Caleb was and wasn't is not public knowledge in universe. I've seen little that says the perception of Caleb shouldn't be anything other than a martyr. If you have anything that says the public perception of Caleb was that he was a nutso, then point me to it.
His "Strategy" that led to Palmyra was absolute incompetence from day one-a strategy that was doomed from the get-go and only needed to face a mildly competent opponent to fail utterly...and anyone let in on the plan as an ally would be able to identify it as such. 'martyr'? sure, as long as you don't know as much aobut the plan as he let them in on in order to be 'counting' on their help.
I tend to believe the Snow Ravens could read a map, and at minimum ,knew what happens when you gut your forces to put the majority of them on a single point of failure. (*Which is what Caleb DID).
that kind of 'thinking' is dangerously incompetent. It would take a junior officer five minutes to demonstrate why staying allied to this schmuck was a recipe for national suicide. Here's the other thing: it would take maybe one or two meetings with high level officers to figure out that the Federated Suns was being run by a moron, and to coordinate a strategy, you get LOTS of those meetings.
In the end, the Snow Ravens did the practical move- they got out of a bad alliance with their forces and economy mostly intact by NOT committing suicide via someone-else's-war.
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But that's neither here or there for the Snow Ravens. They didn't act like a Clan, so maybe they shouldn't be one. The Snow Ravens acted in bad faith. The deal was not Bargained Well or Done. No matter what Caleb was, the Snow Ravens acted badly. Since TPTB want to shield the Snow Ravens, likely nothing will happen. But still, the matter is that ill befitting of a clan of Kerensky.
Is it the Clan way to make that agreement, renege on it, and then attack them? If the Snow Ravens were acting on good faith, they would not have taken that deal in the first place. The Snow Ravens are truely ardent followers of the Way of the Kerenskies.
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But that's neither here or there for the Snow Ravens. They didn't act like a Clan, so maybe they shouldn't be one. The Snow Ravens acted in bad faith. The deal was not Bargained Well or Done. No matter what Caleb was, the Snow Ravens acted badly. Since TPTB want to shield the Snow Ravens, likely nothing will happen. But still, the matter is that ill befitting of a clan of Kerensky.
Is it the Clan way to make that agreement, renege on it, and then attack them? If the Snow Ravens were acting on good faith, they would not have taken that deal in the first place. The Snow Ravens are truely ardent followers of the Way of the Kerenskies.
That depends, how was the deal worded?
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If the Ravens survive this, then it will come down to "might makes right". It would not be the first time a Clan broke their word; see the Ice Hellions and Hell's Horses, just for one example.
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It should be pointed out that the Wolves broke their alliance with the Lyrans during their joint invasion of the FWL. The Wolves took a good chunk of the Commonwealth in doing so. The Ravens only took a pair long after it was obvious that the Suns were ailing.
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Ah. But the Lyrans operated in bad faith. If the Lyrans had operated in good faith, we'd be looking at a very different Innersphere right now.
The what, when and hows of the Raven deal are a little more murky. What we do know is that Sterling McKenna accepted the offer, Raven Naval support in a campaign against the Draconis Combine in exchange for three worlds. The main reason the FedSuns forces stayed on Palmyra so long was that they were waiting for these forces to arrive. If McKenna was operating in good faith, then she would've sent word ahead that she was opting out.
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On the other hand, it doesn't actually matter much whether it's a matter of good faith or not. If McKenna has any kind of provable suspicion that Caleb killed Harrison then her reneg is justified, especially since it adroitly sent the major threat in the region to the Alliance thundering into the opposite direction.
I think this line of questioning is fundamentally flawed in the first place, though. The literal last thing that Alaric (or whoever is in charge of the ilClan when it happens) is going to want to do is create enemies when allies are more necessary.
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Do the Wolves care about the Fed Suns? Only the Sea Foxes have any investment in the Suns and that is with Julian.
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Ah. But the Lyrans operated in bad faith. If the Lyrans had operated in good faith, we'd be looking at a very different Innersphere right now.
The what, when and hows of the Raven deal are a little more murky. What we do know is that Sterling McKenna accepted the offer, Raven Naval support in a campaign against the Draconis Combine in exchange for three worlds. The main reason the FedSuns forces stayed on Palmyra so long was that they were waiting for these forces to arrive. If McKenna was operating in good faith, then she would've sent word ahead that she was opting out.
The strategic issue is simpler than how long Caleb STAYED on Palmyra, it was that he gutted his national defense and put those forces on a single point of failure.
and, y'know, that his subordinates went ahead with it instead of thinking, demonstrating that it wasn't just ONE incompetent involved here. (and also, they might've taken a look at Federated Suns Naval doctrine and realized what their 'allies' intended and said 'NOPE'!!)
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Many of the FedSun Commanders knew Caleb was incompetent and nuts, and many knew his plan was flawed, but Caleb refused to listen to anyone, and would cashier or threaten anyone who opposed him. This is made pretty clear in the FedSun sections of Redemption Rift. Also, Caleb ignored pretty much all the military reforms and work his grandparents' put in to rebuild and protect the FedSuns. Also, I feel like Stirling through her relationship with Caleb discovered, or totally suspected that Caleb was responsible for his father's death. If so, then leaving Caleb hanging is pretty justified. Also, there is enough ambiguity to the events setting up Palmyra that it could have been that Caleb told Sterling his plan and told her the Raven's part in it without soliciting her advice or acceptance, so that there was a demand for support, but no actual deal.
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So from TRO:GC we get access to the Coyotl and Woodsman in addition to the Pulverizer and the Rec Guides have given us two versions of the Vapor Eagle as well.
Also from re-reading the earlier rec guide that gave us the Devil (in which it mentions that all worlds lacking a mech garrison now have a Star of Devil's assigned). The Howler entry mentions the garrison on a world bordering the Combine that consists of a mech Binary (including a Star of Howlers), Protomech Trinary and Star of AeroSpace Fighters. Do you think we would have that kind of force on all worlds facing the Combine and Suns that do not have line forces on them?
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At minimum.
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Guess it would explain why our second line forces haven't expanded either, if we are putting garrisons on every Alliance world.
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Quote from: GreekFire on 20 December 2020, 18:56:47
To offer my take on things, why would the Ravens spend their limited funds importing the Howler when their natively-produced ProtoMechs (or even older Alliance BattleMechs/vehicles) could already largely fill the same roles.
In addition, I did some math (always a terrible idea as far as BattleTech is concerned. Don't do this at home, kids). Based off of:
-The Raven's heavy use of Omni units in their second-line formations,
-The Raven's use of Triads for said formations (leaving only 25 BattleMechs per Cluster), and
-The losses suffered immediately after their exodus from the Homeworlds as detailed in Field Report: The Clans,
We come out to a rough total of 27 Clan-tech second-line 'Mechs left in the Ravens' entire touman by 3079. To put things in perspective, the Ravens had access to 79 distinct second-line designs during the Jihad era. So certain things have to be dropped by the Early Republic era, and as far as the Howler is concerned, I figured the Ravens would prefer to refit old models to the more advance 2/3 standard than vice versa.
Not sure about the thoughts there, as of FM:3145 the Ravens six second line clusters have a combined omni rating of 0%
Of the twelve front line cluster only one is 100% omni, two are in the 60's and three are in the 50's percentage wise, with the other six being in the 40's or 30's.
Just to clarify, it's important to note that my comment about "heavy use of Omni units" refers to the FM:U and FR:Clans breakdowns of their touman. That's what I used as a base for my rough math calculating how many active second-line units they had on hand by 3079.
Of course, things changed by 3145. All of their formations show a glut of second-line designs by then, but many of them are likely units that they natively produce, such as the Stinger IIC, Devil, Goshawk II, Shadow Hawk IIC, Dark Crow, Warhammer IIC, Omen...really, they're swimming in native production of second-line BattleMechs.
But the Ravens aren't a rich Clan--spending their few Escudos on another second-line 'Mech seemed nonsensical to me when their native ProtoMech designs such as the Hippogriff can already accomplish much of what the Howler can for a fraction of the price and resources. It makes more sense, to me, for them to focus on importing OmniMechs/OmniFighters or designs that they can't easily mimic with "lesser" forces.
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Well they are selling a lot of stormcrows, maybe also some other designs to finance the bills.
And we are assuming that there are no secret galaxies off the books.
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Well they are selling a lot of stormcrows, maybe also some other designs to finance the bills.
And we are assuming that there are no secret galaxies off the books.
Sshhh, we do not wish to tip off the Spheroids.
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Just to clarify, it's important to note that my comment about "heavy use of Omni units" refers to the FM:U and FR:Clans breakdowns of their touman. That's what I used as a base for my rough math calculating how many active second-line units they had on hand by 3079.
Of course, things changed by 3145. All of their formations show a glut of second-line designs by then, but many of them are likely units that they natively produce, such as the Stinger IIC, Devil, Goshawk II, Shadow Hawk IIC, Dark Crow, Warhammer IIC, Omen...really, they're swimming in native production of second-line BattleMechs.
But the Ravens aren't a rich Clan--spending their few Escudos on another second-line 'Mech seemed nonsensical to me when their native ProtoMech designs such as the Hippogriff can already accomplish much of what the Howler can for a fraction of the price and resources. It makes more sense, to me, for them to focus on importing OmniMechs/OmniFighters or designs that they can't easily mimic with "lesser" forces.
Fair enough and your take on the 2nd line designs makes sense, guess i'm just annoyed that we don't get the Howler even though the combat report is for a rec guide entry for the standard model but we only have access to the 2 and 3 which are phoenix designs and not part of the rec guide series.
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Fair enough and your take on the 2nd line designs makes sense, guess i'm just annoyed that we don't get the Howler even though the combat report is for a rec guide entry for the standard model but we only have access to the 2 and 3 which are phoenix designs and not part of the rec guide series.
Although the 2 and 3 have been historically been presented as being Phoenix designs, I wouldn't bat an eye at someone using a Classic Howler to represent them. The Recognition Guide series has now established that certain previously-Phoenix'd refits or designs (like the Griffin 4R or Warhammer 8M) in fact (can) use the Classic art.
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Although the 2 and 3 have been historically been presented as being Phoenix designs, I wouldn't bat an eye at someone using a Classic Howler to represent them. The Recognition Guide series has now established that certain previously-Phoenix'd refits or designs (like the Griffin 4R or Warhammer 8M) in fact (can) use the Classic art.
I'd not spotted that, about the Griffin and Warhammer?
Will use the new Howler sculpt as soon as I can get my mits on some.
Happy Christmas fellow Ravens.
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I finally picked up Shrapnel #2 and read your story, Jaim. I love the ending, particularly the last line from Ismiril.
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I finally picked up Shrapnel #2 and read your story, Jaim. I love the ending, particularly the last line from Ismiril.
Thanks! It was a fun story to write :)
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Writing for the Snow Ravens must be a tad difficult when it includes the political maneuvering necessary for the full Raven flavour - not just the stereotypical 'rah-rah me strong' Clan characters. But you nailed it.
I also picked up Rock of the Republic, Children of Kerensky, and Hour of the Wolf. Absolutely loving the writing from Pardoe. Just finished Children at this moment and taking a breather if only to extend the suspense before Hour of the Wolf. Anyone else read these yet?
Not too much Raven content to discuss yet, other than Hakke. Maybe the brief appearance of saKhan Iqbal Lankenau.
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There wasn't much of anything for Raven fans.
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Writing for the Snow Ravens must be a tad difficult when it includes the political maneuvering necessary for the full Raven flavour - not just the stereotypical 'rah-rah me strong' Clan characters. But you nailed it.
You do have to think about things more, that's for sure. The obvious motives are easy, but finding that sneaky subtext, that advantage the Ravens look for, can be tricky. Makes it fun though. And adding some depth to the Clans is sometimes needed. Only so much 'rah-rah me strong' you can stomach ;)
I also picked up Rock of the Republic, Children of Kerensky, and Hour of the Wolf. Absolutely loving the writing from Pardoe. Just finished Children at this moment and taking a breather if only to extend the suspense before Hour of the Wolf. Anyone else read these yet?
I've read all the recent fiction. I have nothing but time right now xp
I have... thoughts. Few of them good.
Not too much Raven content to discuss yet, other than Hakke. Maybe the brief appearance of saKhan Iqbal Lankenau.
Yeah, very little for any Clans but Wolf and Jade Falcon. I found Iqbal's portrayal rather cartoonish, which was disappointing.
Hopefully the new era will contain more and interesting plots for the Ravens.
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Thanks! It was a fun story to write :)
I have to go back and read Schrapnel 2 again.
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What do you Ravens think? Will you bend your knees before the ilClan?
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What do you Ravens think? Will you bend your knees before the ilClan?
Certainly.
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And then look for a sneaky, underhanded advantage to use against our enemies >:D
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Certainly.
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And then look for a sneaky, underhanded advantage to use against our enemies >:D
And with the right concessions, such as ownership of all naval facilities in IlClan territory....
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I'll bet you Ravens will build a " Death Star " bigger than the Leviathan III...
and probably call it ' Darth Crow ', or something...
TT
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I'll bet you Ravens will build a " Death Star " bigger than the Leviathan III...
and probably call it ' Darth Crow ', or something...
TT
A Murder of Stars.
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So rec guide 11 has confirmed we control the only Kit Fox factory in the inner sphere and we get the Horned Owl from the Dominion, I also suspect we will have access to the Phoenix Hawk C 2 given it has the ubiquitous quirk.
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So rec guide 11 has confirmed we control the only Kit Fox factory in the inner sphere *snip*
Oh god, NO's!
* Imagines a Kit Fox armed with an Arrow launcher, ADA ammo and a single ER Medium! Scouting the sky for targets. *
TT
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What's to imagine? The V config is in the new Rec Guide that news comes from.
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Yeah.... 8) :drool: >:D :thumbsup:
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No more having to use Naga's or arrow Bombardiers.
Just get a Star of 4 Kit Fox V and a one other bodyguard 'Mech with TAG.
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No more having to use Naga's or arrow Bombardiers.
Just get a Star of 4 Kit Fox V and a one other bodyguard 'Mech with TAG.
Well, the Fire Moth A fits that bill (and we get the chassis from the Dominion).
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Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty. That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
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Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty. That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Vehicles are a bit of a rarity in Raven frontline units.
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Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty. That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Mechs can move through terrain that tanks cannot, and the Kitfox can keep up with most mech formations.
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I wasn't joking about the Arrow, but the V config.
" Light " Arty in a Recce Star? Yes, please!
Sounds fowl to me, eh Falcons? ::)
TT
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Sounds fowl to me, eh Falcons? ::)
Only when it's someone else, doing it to the Falcons.
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Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty. That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
Rule of cool. Tho I do have one on a dire wolf for giggles in a campaign.
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Real talk I don't know why anyone would waste an OmniMech on artillery duty. That's a vehicle's job, and they can keep it.
I agree.
But Kit Foxes are so fragile between their average (for a light mech) speed and thin armor, it’s not a bad idea to get them off the front line and into the rear. Same might hold true for Hellbringers, honestly.
And if your dropship cargo hold doesn’t have room leftover for a couple Hueys or a star of Hadurs, then the ability to switch to an Arrow IV configuration on dated OmniMechs like the Kit Fox makes sense for those times when you run into a dezgra fortification that you’d rather not waste a star or trinary assaulting.
But yeah, the Naga and Scylla are wastes of potential, pulling duty better left to tanks.
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From what I understand the Ravens leave their ART vehicles with the garrison units.
Also there is an argument to make of only having to transport some Arrow IV pods, instead of entire vehicles.
[Edit]Example
Frontline: Kit Fox V, Mad Dog V
Secondline: Bombardier BMB-05A, Huey (AAA)
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I wonder if they are used by the Alliance Milita as well, seems like a nice surprise for anyone who comes across a milita Recon Lance.
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(https://i.ibb.co/WxB5CGK/Recog-Guide-Cover-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znPxdQf)
Looks like we get to find out about the White Raven this Friday.
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It actually looks good...... :o
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It actually looks good...... :o
Aff :drool:
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It's giving off the old Viper/Black Python vibes.
Edit: Duh. Thought the cover was the white raven.
Anyway, it looks sweet.
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they are the same thing
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Two more new toys! :D
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Two more new toys! :D
Yep, both very nice additions, guess we might have some Shadow Hawk C's kicking around in the AMC as well, would make sense to convert any old chassis they have kicking around.
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I am disturbed to hear that we are trialing against the Bears. I am not sure if that is what allies do to each other.
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Yeah. Trialing is normal. There's history such as the Wolves and Horses trialing for Elemental armor and genetics. Even the White Raven entry mentions the Suns are no longer accepting friendly Trials (which implies they used to).
I also noticed that two of the Raven the KS backers got their characters in. Hope they are liking what they got. Both look pretty cool to me.
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I am disturbed to hear that we are trialing against the Bears. I am not sure if that is what allies do to each other.
They said it was a friendly small scale trial. Then it got escalated by a guy on his way out and became a bigger deal. But still not a big deal.
In GB lore we had a relationship with WiE so we would trial with them. At the same time we didn’t have a relationship with CNC, and they would trial us. After on Mississippi they didn’t cut it out so we wrecked them.
The ravens relationship, plus that they are building our top secret super-ultimate-mega-destroyer warship, is what allows these types of trials.
This is blood sport rather than war.
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Yes, I'm still focused on the future. I look forward to the true unveiling of Quatre Belle, and their capabilities as builders of warships.
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When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!
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When all the RecGuides are done, it would be nice to summarize all the industry that has been build up.
The Ravens have managed to do so much work over the decades in universe.
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When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!
Oh... I can find a way...
If TPTB would lend a ear?
Like I would tell you my suggestions!
TT
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When the universe needs warships, all eyes will turn to Quatre Belle!
And ask, "gee. Can that maintenance yard really build WarShips?" :)
mean I think I have them down as able to build JumpShips by now, but in Objectives QBSY could only manage maintenance. Mysterious comments in XTRO Republic III notwithstanding.
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Yes, I'm still focused on the future. I look forward to the true unveiling of Quatre Belle, and their capabilities as builders of warships.
The Ravens need the money for warships before they build them. Presently, the need for a stronger ground-based touman would draw the lion's share of military resources.
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And ask, "gee. Can that maintenance yard really build WarShips?" :)
mean I think I have them down as able to build JumpShips by now, but in Objectives QBSY could only manage maintenance. Mysterious comments in XTRO Republic III notwithstanding.
To be fair, Objectives was, at this point, set over 80 years ago. A lot of yards started existing in a lot of worse tech bases a lot faster than that in the 50s-60s.
I'm not actually suuuuuper sure of when IS Warship production got back up to speed, but even with nothing bit the power of broad strokes guessing the maximum outer bounds are early to mid 50s to have everything back in action, based entirely on the lack of WarShips to contest the initial invasion and the decidedly not-lack of them during Serpent.
tl;dr more has been done faster before with less
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People always look at Quatre Belle, or Alshain, or Butler, or whatever is in the Chainelains, and ignore the half dozen DC and FWL WarShip capable yards that came through the Jihad completely unscathed.
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Quatre Belle represents what ifs for Raven fans. The ultimate what if, really.
It captures the imagination.
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Quatre Belle represents what ifs for Raven fans. The ultimate what if, really.
It captures the imagination.
I’m hoping for the most literal interpretation of four Taco Bell drive-throughs. So I don’t have a long wait in my Warcrow for my Gordita Crunch.
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I have a craving for nachos. Maybe a taco or Quatre.
It's not your fault, its just funny a week later.
Ravens need more content to post about, I guess.
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You guys, wake me up if there are any new Raven protomech designs released in the ilClan updates
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I finally picked up one of the Rec Guides. I am absolutely in love with the Devil! I am especially glad that I ordered the Ad Hoc Star from the Kickstarter to get the Howler miniature. I love the aesthetic, but wanted to avoid using a 20-tonner (so little armour!). Even 30 tonnes would be much better.
And what do you know? The upgrade to the Devil's weight is perfect. The speed is perfect. The load out is perfect. The art is beautiful. I wanted to put a Clan 'Mech in my Alliance Militia Corps lance and I'm happy that the AMC has been noted to be receiving occasional secondline Raven 'Mechs like the Clint IIC. Gives the AMC a bit of Raven Alliance flavour without being overpowered.
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The Devil is cute.
Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?
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You are not hallucinating.
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You are not hallucinating.
The Devil is cute.
Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?
Ravens are scavengers after all. Why waste a good design?
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The Devil is cute.
Btw, am I hallucinating or was the Black Python rebranded as the White Raven in IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 12?
The 'Mech was covered in crude snake-oil, the Ravens gave it the needed cleaning.
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Ravens are scavengers after all. Why waste a good design?
My feelings can be summed up in a quote from bloodsport,"What's the difference if Bruce Springsteen is his shidoshi?"
Just the ravens doing more things that makes me love them.
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We got a Wolverine design and a Steel Vipers design. Now, we just need a Mongoose design and then we'll complete our collection of "Dead Enemy" designs.
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We got a Wolverine design and a Steel Vipers design. Now, we just need a Mongoose design and then we'll complete our collection of "Dead Enemy" designs.
What designs did the they produce?
I hope we get the Kingfisher though.
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What designs did the they produce?
I hope we get the Kingfisher though.
The Chippewa IIC.
Ruger
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I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?
If Julian Davion becomes the shining saviour that the story seems to be leading him, then the Alliance will be in big trouble.
First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.
Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")
Or maybe the developers just want to give the 'Mech naming/aesthetic flavour to the Clan, much like the Wolves/Falcons/Horses/Bears.
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The Inner Sphere will need to be subdued. The Ravens are to be a part of that.
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The Chippewa IIC.
Ruger
Cheers, but not a mech so won't be in the rec guides.
I think the Locust IIC was originally Mongoose though.
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I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?
If Julian Davion becomes the shining saviour that the story seems to be leading him, then the Alliance will be in big trouble.
First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.
Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")
Or maybe the developers just want to give the 'Mech naming/aesthetic flavour to the Clan, much like the Wolves/Falcons/Horses/Bears.
One thing to note about the Ravens is their lack of original mech designs to begin with. Maybe what we are seeing is an expansion of their designs rather than a sign of a greater fall. Besides the Fedsuns are probably more angry with the Combine who has conquered their capital.
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First, the unrest on conquered worlds that has forced Alliance forces off-planet at times (seriously? Everyone else just changes flags when conquered and we get massive resistance?) seems to be leading to a "Ravens bit off more than they could chew" storyline.
Do remember that you are talking about some worlds that haven't changed flags since the Reunification War (or 1SW) and others that have never changed flags.
Second, the Ravens remain a relatively small power and therefore don't need a big story arc to lose big. The aftermath could just end up being part of a minor paragraph ("Julian then sent the Davion Heavy Guards and the 5th Crucis Lancers to punish the Alliance. They swiftly re-conquered the Federated Suns planets and destroyed the Raven Beta Galaxy in the process.")
Certainly their betrayal at Palmyra deserves more than a paragraph. A couple of pages at least (500 words or so).
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One thing to note about the Ravens is their lack of original mech designs to begin with. Maybe what we are seeing is an expansion of their designs rather than a sign of a greater fall. Besides the Fedsuns are probably more angry with the Combine who has conquered their capital.
True enough. My thoughts were pure speculation on a number of possibilities, rather than any strong feeling on my part. I do believe that New Avalon will be re-conquered (there is generally a status quo of sorts that is maintained long-term in BattleTech, including capitals not being conquered long-term). But afterwards? Will the Ravens pay then?
Do remember that you are talking about some worlds that haven't changed flags since the Reunification War (or 1SW) and others that have never changed flags.
Certainly their betrayal at Palmyra deserves more than a paragraph. A couple of pages at least (500 words or so).
Absolutely true. I should have been careful to note that I don't aim to be a grumbler who complains about the plot because it's not 'fair'. I certainly don't mind at all if 'my' faction is bumbling at times - I don't want the Ravens to be blessed with "plot armour", as some call it. it is just hard to imagine any other occurrence of resistance at this level. A bombing or assassination can happen for anyone, sure, but the Ravens have actually had to retreat their ground forces from some planets and the text suggests that the Ravens may have to fully abandon other gains without any military threat.
I am merely surprised at the lacklustre nature of the Ravens being unable capitalize even a little bit off of their engineering of one of the greatest military defeats in history. Again, I'm not complaining nor advocating any changes to the plot, but rather expressing some surprise. I thought the key to limit their gains would be resistance from the Outworlds people most of all.
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What designs did the they produce?
I hope we get the Kingfisher though.
Doesn't have to be a currently known one. It could be a "new" Mech that they just haven't used for a while that they are starting production of again (like the The Devil).
I'm fine with losing as long as A) we don't get completely wiped out and B) we don't become a punching bag where we start losing EVERY fight.
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Just be happy that TPTB haven't killed us off and we're still a viable power in the Inner Sphere
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I wonder if the proliferation of new Raven designs indicates a larger part of future stories (i.e., conflict conflict conflict!). Designs like the War Crow seems to be part of a big militarization push to become a stronger power. And of course, the aftermath of Palmyra saw a number of conquests and potentially antagonizing a larger power (the Suns). More fighting to come?
I would be willing to bet that the most likely reason the Ravens are getting more love in the Recognition Guides is that the only thing they got in TRO 3145/3150 was the Hippogriff. There has been a distinct lack of new Ravens hardware in the Dark Age prior to this series.
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I was hoping that it was because they were going to do something interesting. :-[
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I don't see why that's mutually exclusive with what I said ;)
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I would be willing to bet that the most likely reason the Ravens are getting more love in the Recognition Guides is that the only thing they got in TRO 3145/3150 was the Hippogriff.
Not true, we also got the Cadaver! ::)
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Not true, we also got the Cadaver! ::)
For the deadbeat pilots...
...
I'll show myself out.
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For the deadbeat pilots...
...
I'll show myself out.
xp
You are hereby relegated to cleaning the 'Mech lavatories as penance.
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xp
You are hereby relegated to cleaning the 'Mech lavatories as penance.
You may use a Gulon C.
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Question, is this the best possible R-Team?:
Heavy BattleMech Recovery Vehicle
Man O' War (Gargoyle) D
Man O' War (Gargoyle) D
Elemental BA point
Elemental BA point
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Question, is this the best possible R-Team?:
One thought is that the heavy recovery vehicle will top out at 3MP when carrying anything off field larger than a light mech. That might argue for a slower, better armored, and harder hitting mech escort, maybe even including 3/5 assaults like the Omen, Bane, Blood Kite, Marauder IIC 7, Rifleman IIC, Stone Rhino, Viking IIC, or Wakazashi. I did not check these against the Raven MUL, I don’t think any of them have hand actuators for dragging salvage away, and some seem excessive for salvage escort duty. But there may not be much point investing in heavy cavalry speeds if you’re going to have to slow walk off the field, anyway.
Another thought is that R-teams are not frontline duty and so would probably not be assigned omnimechs like the Gargoyle. It may even be solahma or dezgra duty and see sucky or dishonorable mech escorts like Corvises, Urbanmech IICs, Hunchback IICs, Pulverizers, Spheroid “C” designs, etc. No omnis will necessitate the BA walking on or off the field (or riding on the Recovery Vehicle), which may be okay if the mechs and vehicle are walking off at 3MPs.
Last thought is to ditch the slow recovery vehicles and use a Saladin (Clan Cargo) to haul up to 17 tons off field at 8/12 speeds. Then you could consider some lighter, speedier mech escorts, but the BA will take up some of that cargo space if you forgo omnis.
Hope this helps.
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Sounds like a great opportunity to field a Gargoyle K. The hatchet can "help" free any bits that are stuck to make easier to carry away in smaller pieces. Active Probe should help find anyone laying a trap in the salvage or trying to hide as scrap. And it carries enough firepower to fend off most surprises it can't discover on its own.
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Sounds like a great opportunity to field a Gargoyle K. The hatchet can "help" free any bits that are stuck to make easier to carry away in smaller pieces. Active Probe should help find anyone laying a trap in the salvage or trying to hide as scrap. And it carries enough firepower to fend off most surprises it can't discover on its own.
We don't have that one on the MUL, (we lose the Gargoyle after the Jihad).
The ravens losing it later is a shame the D config has two arms and the Omnimech has a high carry capacity and can transport the required BA.
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I have been taking a closer look at the relevant rules (TW p261 & TO p99).
Having both hand actuators is very important, also bigger 'Mechs really are better.
My previous reason for using OmniMechs is mostly centered around then not having to invest in BA transport, but having a BA transport vehicle (such as an Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport (Std) or Anhur Transport (BA) ) in the same point as the recovery vehicle still makes that R-team Star sized right?
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My previous reason for using OmniMechs is mostly centered around then not having to invest in BA transport, but having a BA transport vehicle (such as an Maxim (I) Heavy Hover Transport (Std) or Anhur Transport (BA) ) in the same point as the recovery vehicle still makes that R-team Star sized right?
Two vehicles to a point, so I’d say yes. The original write-up for the R-teams should have specified two vehicles, even if it restricted both to recovery/support vehicles.
I’d just have the BA ride on the recovery vehicles. Even if the BA take up some tonnage on both vehicles during the drive out, you’ll get more salvage with two recovery vehicles than one. The downside is that I’m not sure what rules, if any, cover BA or infantry riding exposed on a flatbed. Mechanized BA take up specific hit locations on combat omnivehicles. I’m not sure how BA hits would be determined if they’re all in the flatbed.
One solution to this rules hole might be the Flatbed Truck from TRO3060. It supposedly carries six tons of payload in the armored cab, enough for an Elemental point and a couple/few techs. Like the standard and heavy recovery vehicles, it’s built under combat vehicle construction rules, so it’s not a flimsy support vehicle. And it’s reasonably mobile at 5/8. Since the winches that allow recovery vehicles to pull mechs up onto their flatbeds have never been specified in the rules, presumably a Flatbed Truck could be equipped with one at no cost in tonnage or space. (Otherwise the mechs and Elementals will have to lift the salvage onto the flatbed.)
The downside to Flatbed Trucks is their 10-ton cargo space on the flatbed (outside the armored cab), which limits them to pieces of mechs or lighter mechs, if you’re willing to retreat under reduced speed on the way out.
The Saladin (Clan Cargo) also takes care of the BA mechanization issue by carrying them inside its 17-ton cargo bay. But unlike the recover vehicles and Flatbed Truck, you can’t stuff even a 20-ton mech inside that cargo bay. It will only retrieve mech parts (or ultralights!).
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Why not a single Tonbo, flanked by a pair of Anhur BA Transports carrying both Resgate BA and those twelve tons of Infantry.
Cause as of 3085, the Tonbo is for sale to the public.
TT
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More noodling on R-teams...
The Raven Alliance has access to the JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle through the Periphery General list from the Jihad era forward. Although slow at 3/5, this is a combat vehicle that could take a hit or two like the old recovery vehicles. Unlike the old recovery vehicles, it has three lift hoists, so there is no magic as to how it gets salvage off the field. At 70 tons and with a 33-ton payload bay and those three lift hoists, it could carry up to 88 tons with no MP penalty and up to 138 tons at 2/3 movement. (Hope I did those calcs right.) It’s basically a Heavy Recovery Vehicle for the current rules set.
I’d pair two JI-100s with two Omens. They don’t have hands, but with six lift hoists on the JI-100s, they don’t really need them (unless both JI-100s kick the bucket). The Omens have the right mobility (3/5/3), survivability (maxed 16.5 tons of armor), and heavy firepower for escorting the JI-100s. Two large pulse lasers, two LB 10-X ACs, 24 ATM tubes, four ER medium lasers, and four pulse medium lasers create an effective bubble of doom out to 15ish hexes, especially for anything fast that tries to zoom in and strike at the JI-100s. Everything else will have to stand off and slug it out with the Omens. And as a secondline, standard, Raven mech design, they just feel like they should be on salvage duty in an R-team, unlike a generic, frontline omni. To me, the standard “Heavy” R-Team for recovering whole mechs would consist of two Omens, two JI-100s, and BA.
But if you want hands, there are other secondline options around this speed on the Raven MUL, like the Royal Highlander, Pulverizer, and Kodiak 3.
The Elementals will have to ride in the JI-100’s cargo bay, but they’re hardly an imposition in that 33-ton bay. The Ravens have access to the Golem on their MUL if you want more stand-off capability, and the Surat if you want more solahma flavor in your R-team. Gnomes, Rabids, Raches, Salamanders (which probably work against salvage), and Coronas, too.
There are other, more recent options for recovery transports, like the JI-50 “Jifty”, the O-66 HMRV “Oppie”, and the J-37 Ordnance Transport. But they’re all support vehicles that will get disabled/destroyed under fire more easily that the JI-100, so I’d stick with it. Plus, with the exception of the J-37, they don’t appear on the Raven, Clan General, or Periphery General MULs (although they are manufactured or appear just over the Inner Sphere border).
The Tonbo does appear on the Raven MUL. As a slowish VTOL support vehicle with BAR armor, I really can’t recommend it for recovery under any combat conditions. But it’s interesting to imagine a variant “Air” R-Team consisting of two Tonbos escorted by four Gossamers and ten Sylphs. Easy to destroy, but maybe useful in areas that the JI-100s can’t get to. (If only there were Clan LAMs...)
Finally, as already mentioned, there are a lot of smaller combat vehicles with cargo bays and flatbeds and faster speeds than the JI-100 that could be matched with equally fast secondline mechs. Since these vehicles lack lift hoists, the mechs either need hands or there needs to be a house rule on massless winches or similar equipment. They won’t normally carry off whole mechs but they can retrieve bits and pieces. Flatbed Trucks at 5/8 or the original BattleMech Recovery Vehicle at 6/9 pair well with Stinger IICs at 6/9/6. In fact, any number of 5/8/x and 6/9/x secondline Raven mechs like Conjurers, S-Hawk IICs, Griffin IICs, or P-Hawk IICs also work well or better here, but Stinger IICs arguably have the most Raven flavor. I also like the idea of the Saladin (Clan Cargo) at 8/12 paired with Devils at 7/11, but that Saladin is a Jade Falcon only option on the MUL, so if you’re a stickler, you’re stuck with the Barouche, a 7/11 hover support transport on the Raven MUL.
Putting it all together, here are some sample R-Teams:
Heavy R-Team
Omen
Omen
Golem Point (or Elemental Point)
Golem Point (or Elemental Point)
JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle
JI-100 Transportable Field Repair Vehicle
Light R-Team
Stinger IIC
Stinger IIC
Surat Point (or Elemental Point)
Surat Point (or Elemental Point)
BattleMech Recovery Vehicle (or Flatbed Truck - Armor)
BattleMech Recovery Vehicle (or Flatbed Truck - Armor)
Fast R-Team
Devil
Devil
Elemental Point
Elemental Point
Saladin - Clan Cargo (or Barouche)
Saladin - Clan Cargo (or Barouche)
Air R-Team
Gossamer
Gossamer
Gossamer (XL/LB-X)
Gossamer (XL/LB-X)
Sylph (Upgrade) Point
Sylph (Upgrade) Point
Tonbo
Tonbo
Hope this is useful.
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Why not a single Tonbo, flanked by a pair of Anhur BA Transports carrying both Resgate BA and those twelve tons of Infantry.
Cause as of 3085, the Tonbo is for sale to the public.
I had similar thoughts, but the R-teams are supposed to work under fire and as BAR armor, VTOL, support vehicles, Tonbos are very easy to blow out of the sky. (So are Anhurs, Balacs, Gossamers, etc., just less so.)
I could see them used where ground vehicles cannot reach — or when the guns stop firing. But I can’t recommend them as a standard R-Team option.
IMO — your head canon may vary.
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Would this include the Barouche? It does have BAR 8, but it also has that sweet 7/11 spot, as well as 24.5 tons cargo...
TT
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Would this include the Barouche? It does have BAR 8, but it also has that sweet 7/11 spot, as well as 24.5 tons cargo...
I included the Barouche as an option in my “Fast” R-Team above (if that’s what you’re asking). Mentioned it in the text, as well.
I’d prefer the Saladin (Clan Cargo) variant because it’s a real combat vehicle, and the Barouche is not.. But the Saladin is not on a Raven MUL, and the Barouche is. So if you’re MUL stickler, stick with the Barouche.
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When using regular BattleMechs for an R-team it might be a good idea to combine them with Spectre Stealth BA, as those have XMEC and are on our MUL. With the XMEC special they can attach themselves to non-omni units and these BA are fast enough to keep up with heavily loaded recovery vehicles and 'Mechs dragging other 'Mechs away.
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When using regular BattleMechs for an R-team it might be a good idea to combine them with Spectre Stealth BA, as those have XMEC and are on our MUL. With the XMEC special they can attach themselves to non-omni units and these BA are fast enough to keep up with heavily loaded recovery vehicles and 'Mechs dragging other 'Mechs away.
I thought about the Spectre. It’s really only a threat if you commit a Spectre Point to anti-mech attacks. Otherwise, it’s easy to ignore the plink of the Spectre’s David Light Gauss and focus fire on the recovery vehicles. In fact, the enemy is even encouraged to do so by the Spectre’s stealth armor. The Spectre no doubt has above average mobility and mechanization. But unlike other BA options (Golem, Corona, Surat, Rabid, Elemental), it lacks the stopping power or threat to force the enemy away from the recovery vehicles.
Also, since the Ravens have the Sylph (Enhanced) for their speedy, ground BA, I suspect the Spectre is fielded by Outworlds Alliance specs ops, not Raven Elementals, in R-teams or otherwise.
IMO, of course. Your head canon and play experience may vary.
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These are some great ideas about the R-Teams, guys. Thanks! :thumbsup:
Given that the Clan Invasion box comes with two Elemental Points, an R-Team is a great unit to put together.
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On a related note, what about this Space R-team?:
Kirghiz C
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7
Aerie PA(L) (Standard)
Elemental BA (Space)
It is not a true full star with only one fighter, but two of these can fit in a repurposed Leopard DS.
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Confederate C would be better.
TT
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On a related note, what about this Space R-team?:
Kirghiz C
Very capable defensively but very limited cargo space.
The NL-42 Battle Taxi appears on the Periphery General list. It has 50 tons of space minus the weight of a BA point. Send two in a recovery vehicle or aerospace point to haul 100 tons of salvage.
The Mark VIIC Landing Craft appears on the Raven MUL. Has shorter-ranged defenses but more space at 67 tons. But not really for boarding operations. Maybe only for recovering friendly salvage.
The Ravens also have the NL-45 Gunboat, but it has no cargo space beyond its Elemental Point. There are other small craft that could substitute as recovery vehicles like the K-1C Dropshuttle but they are less capable in cargo and defenses than the NL-42 and Mark VIIC.
The other obvious choice for an aerospace recovery vehicle would be a special purpose dropship like the Octopus or Elephant. They could house multiple R-Teams. The Octopus can carry four small craft, 3000 tons of cargo, and a couple hundred crew. Unfortunately, the Octopus is on the Inner Sphere General MUL, but nowhere else. Hard to believe the Ravens wouldn’t have the equivalent for pushing their warships in and out of dock. The Elephant is extinct.
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7
Although R-teams call for two mechs, their lifting capability serves little purpose in the weightlessness of space. BA thrusters should be able to maneuver salvage in microgravity (at least in real life), although I don’t know what the aerospace rules say, if anything. And mechs (and BA) are very poor combatants in space, even these space variants. I’d use aerospace fighters, instead. Tempting to use the Kirghiz Cs to carry the BA, but that’s like putting Dire Wolves on salvage duty. The good, all around secondline fighter is the Ammon, but the Ravens don’t have access, even through a General MUL listing. So I suppose I’d use the Tyre (fluffed as escorts) or the Issus (native Raven design).
Aerie PA(L) (Standard)
Elemental BA (Space)
There’s an Aerie (Salvage) variant with a salvage arm, which is probably more useful for salvage work than the cutting torch on the Elemental (Space) or the original Aerie, both of which are really marine boarding designs and will do little to protect the operation from attacks in space. But maybe I’d keep Elemental (Space) Points for boarding and clearing surviving crew on crippled yet unfriendly vessels.
So here’s my take:
Space R-Team (Boarding)
Tyre
Tyre
Elemental (Space) Point
Elemental (Space) Point
NL-42 Battle Taxi
NL-42 Battle Taxi
Space R-Team (Salvage)
Issus
Issus
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Mark VIIC Landing Craft
Mark VIIC Landing Craft
Maybe two such teams operating out of a Raven “Octopus”, maybe with a Carrier to bring the fighters on long-range ops. Or just modify the Raven “Octopus” to also bring the fighters and forgo the Carrier.
FWIW...
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What about using an Intruder Upgrade, a Point of Aero and the 300 tons of it's cargo for two mechbays, and use the Infantry with the Raven Space Marine Points, that's like 75 troopers?
TT
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What about just using two fighters and having the spare cubicles for the equipment your team is ostensibly trying to recover?
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In my opinion R-teams do need 'Mechs to count as R-teams, and if fighters aren't used to help transport the BA then just better to leave them out.
Space R-Team (Boarding)
Warhammer IIC 7
Warhammer IIC 7
Roc Point
Elemental (Space) Point
Elemental (Space) Point
Space R-Team (Salvage)
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Shadow Hawk IIC 7
Roc Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point
Aerie (Salvage) Point
And leaving the cargo carrying to the dropship.
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An idea for an ilClan era R-Team somewhat inspired by the White Raven entry that I came up with:
White Raven
White Raven 2
Roc point
Gorgon 5 point
Aerie PA(L) (salvage) point with a Savior recovery vehicle.
The Gorgons with their MCSs can ride on the White Ravens, and while the White Ravens may lack some stopping power TCs and pulse lasers mean they can surgically remove parts of Mechs or take down Mechs without damaging vital components and have hands to help carry stuff. The Ravens could likely purchase the Savior from the FedSuns before their current spat, and it has 3 tons of infantry capacity, plus it can haul a Mech or pieces thereof.
Another idea is:
White Raven
Carrion Crow
Roc point
Enhanced Sylph point
Aerie PA(L) (salvage) point with a Savior or standard Battlemech recovery vehicle.
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A very quiet Unkindness here...
I was thinking about the WarShip situation again. Obviously, for narrative reasons there can't be dominant WarShip fleets (it's all about the 'Mechs!), but the Ravens still present a problem. Sure, the fleet can lose 70% of its ships to reduce its number and we also saw the narrative tools of 'not enough pilots' and 'not enough shipyards' to ensure that the Ravens could not capitalize on their main advantage. Pocket WarShips also helped to balance the scales.
Ultimately, this has reduced the Ravens' main 'quirk' of WarShips. A little sad, but understandable, I suppose. But narratively, perhaps the purpose for the Raven fleet is to ensure their survival against their powerful neighbours. Going forward, the writers can cite the fleet as a defensive measure that maintains the Alliance's viability long-term.
As long as the fleet doesn't become subject to the ilClan's whims. Blech. Can anyone think of anything else the fleet might be permitted to do, story-wise?
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Not really knowledgeable on the Ravens but I have to ask: is their fleet mothballed or can they just use capital weapons as static emplacements?
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You could use capital weapons from a space station if you want. I think most of the Ravens Fleet is mothballed since hardly anyone else could even contest the few they have active. I think TPTB are expanding the proto force with Mechs to give the Ravens some reason to exist in this setting as it is
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You could use capital weapons from a space station if you want. I think most of the Ravens Fleet is mothballed since hardly anyone else could even contest the few they have active. I think TPTB are expanding the proto force with Mechs to give the Ravens some reason to exist in this setting as it is
Well, it's clear that the Ravens will never increase their holdings by more than a few planets, so conquering won't be their purpose.
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Call the navy the ultimate defence. Difficult to invade if all your dropships get burned up before even managing to land their precious mechs. Better to just head to easier to invade pastures.
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Pocket Warships a plenty, aerospace designs maximized with aero heavy forces, ProtoMech improvements to capitalize on the tech, and Warships that remain to threaten the other Warships that remain: the Capellans with their Feng Huang, the Horses who may or may not be angry, and potentially any home Clans/ WoB.
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Call the navy the ultimate defence. Difficult to invade if all your dropships get burned up before even managing to land their precious mechs. Better to just head to easier to invade pastures.
Not to mention that the Alliance has more pastures than any real valued targets. Nothing to see here, move along. Except Farmer Yang's sweet pickle relish. Blue ribbon prize at the Alpheratz Country Fair!
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Lots of locally sourced protein for the troops. Even a great Space Armada jumps on its stomach.
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Maybe the Clan can raise the needed funds to enlarge the touman by loading up our ships with our agricultural goods and sell them in the neighboring systems:
"We will not blast you from orbit if you buy our delicious, farm fresh meat and produce. It's completely organic and pesticide-free!"
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Raven Alliance Bake Sale
With a busy year ahead for our young warriors, the Khans and Galaxy Commanders have been busy baking delicious baked goods for sale. Sterling McKenna made some Nanaimo bars! All proceeds go towards new OmniMechs, as well as new soccer balls for the girls' team.
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I could go for a batch of Nanaimo bars! Somebody invite the Ravens to Terra! (I had to look them up, those look really good!)
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I could go for a batch of Nanaimo bars! Somebody invite the Ravens to Terra! (I had to look them up, those look really good!)
They are indeed! Nanaimo bars and buttertarts!
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That's what Ravens mean when you say "we have cookies".
;D
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That's what Ravens mean when you say "we have cookies".
;D
We have white chocolate chip macadamia, we have oatmeal, we have Galedon raisin... What? You don't like raisin?
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I prefer White Choco-Chip'd Macadamia Oatmeal Raisin'd cookies if you please!
TT
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Me, too.
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A fleet of
WarShips CookieShips are on their way.
Sincerely,
Star Captain of Cookies.
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A fleet of WarShips CookieShips are on their way.
Sincerely,
Star Captain of Cookies.
Star Admiral Monster of Clan Cookies in command!
(https://media.tenor.com/images/a92598d9f4d6af6c43882c0978ed4242/tenor.gif)
When Cookie Invasion??
TT
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So random thought I wanted to ask. What is everyone's preferred Triad composition?
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You know, I have never used ASF before (I know, heresy). I have no idea what to choose for the ASF Star in a Triad. Any suggestions?
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Guess who got the Kingfisher.
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Guess who got the Kingfisher.
Makes me happy :)
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It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
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It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
Yep, it seems that the Ravens have many Mediums and Assaults.
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It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
Gotta export something ;)
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It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
well the Ravens were the original creators of the Kingfisher...I always felt the RecGuides were going to give it to either the Ravens or the Bears, and with the trade relationships the two Clans must have, either producing it now probably means the other gets to have it just as much
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It strikes me as odd that we're getting it considering that we already have two other assault mechs at roughly the same weight.
It's a 4/6 SFE, while the Deimos is 3/5[6] XLE and the Omen is a 3/5/3 XLE. The Kingfisher is a durable and reliable anchor compared to the more fragile and overall slower other two.
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Gotta export something ;)
Hopefully on the open market like the Stormcrow. :thumbsup:
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It is kind of a neat coincidence that my two favorite Clan Mechs, the Stormcrow and Kingfisher were both produced by the Ravens
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How are the unkindness doing these days?
Now things are starting to inch back towards normality here (although i'm isolating at the moment) we are looking to get a campaign started, as part of this it has been decided that I can do basic refits on the inner sphere mechs I own to use as Alliance Militia machines, the first two of which can be found here - https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/raven-alliance-militia-refits/ i'd appreciate any feedback.
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For flavour I'd leave in some IS weaponry or IS specific equipment. I feel like the Wolverine would be scrapped, because, you know, WOLVERINE. Or handwave it becoming an "antique Conjurer". That might work.
But overall, looks good.
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Thanks for the feedback.
With the Wolverines i'm thinking the Raven part of the Alliance would look the other way if the Alliance part is using a couple of mechs in the Militia forces.
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Instead of scrapping the Wolverines, slap on some clan equipment and rename it "Angry Badger" or something like that.
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There's an idea, how about the Kestrel? Can go alongside the Merlin then.
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There is already a vtol with that name.
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Shouldn't be a problem, there are two mechs called Gladiator.
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We also very recently had the Lightning BattleMech debut, while the Lightning hovercraft has existed since the late 80s and the Lightning ASF since TRO 3057 in the mid-90s.
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‘Tis true. I would want to go with a close relative of the Wolverine. Honey Badgers are pretty fearsome.
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Indeed. I've heard that Honey Badgers just don't care.
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Ermine? Fisher? Stoat?
Heaps of great weasels.
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A marmut, mayhap. Just having marmuts pretty much says you believe in Nothing, thanks to some movie, I guess...
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Honey Badger?
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For the longest time I had the Wiki page for Wolverine Genus and other related species bookmarked. I was working on Wolverine mechs and vehicles (most are in my sig). Been testing a couple in my local games too, and the Polecat works pretty well.
But alas that’s a bit off topic. The Ravens use the Pulverizer in its current forces so I’m not sure if they would label the Wolverine (OG) differently or be like this is the Conjurer 1IS.
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The ilClan: Table of Contents
Good that its finally coming out, but can't see anything obvious for us.
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It's a book about a fight for one world. The Ravens weren't in this battle. Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.
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It's a book about a fight for one world. The Ravens weren't in this battle. Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.
I choose to believe it's a artic alliance between the raven's,bear's and newly revived ice hellion.
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The Ice Hellions merged with the Scorpions a century ago and things are on the upswing for them in the Scorpion Empire. Why leave?
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The Ice Hellions merged with the Scorpions a century ago and things are on the upswing for them in the Scorpion Empire. Why leave?
Because our factions aren't doing much and untill it comes out I choose to live in a cocoon of delusion.
But why leave? To create the most awesome unified off blue camo ever seen! Think of it Trothkin!!
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Join us. We have Firemoths.
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It's a book about a fight for one world. The Ravens weren't in this battle. Although "The Coming Ice Storm" in the Draconis Combine section may allude to something.
I feel that though. This is the first book to push things forward in the Ilclan period... Maybe not as much of a sting if the Horses hadn't got a two page spread.
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Hell's Horses makes sense since they are set up to be the primary Clan antagonist to the Wolves after the conquest of Terra. I suspect their stuff will be their plots afterwards.
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Hell's Horses makes sense since they are set up to be the primary Clan antagonist to the Wolves after the conquest of Terra. I suspect their stuff will be their plots afterwards.
I think they've got a book coming up soon. Since they're falling into the Jade Falcons Occupation Zone vacuum or what not.
We'll know more Friday I guess.
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I'm guessing we'll be mostly involved in the Drac-FedRat conflict, but there may not be too much on that for a while.
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Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
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Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
He is up there with Hanse Davion, and I blame Hanse for the Jihad.
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Controversial take: I dislike Haake Sukhanov and his supposed "genius".
This gonna turn into another crow incident?
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This gonna turn into another crow incident?
You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?
Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.
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You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?
Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.
As zoidberg would say,why not both!? ^_^
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As zoidberg would say,why not both!? ^_^
Both is always the best option :)
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I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.
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I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.
His "genius" is of dubious provenance.
But yes, I'd much rather have visible Ravens who are actual Ravens.
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I don't know if it'll be Tamar rising, but hopefully the Ravens and Ghost Bears will get involved some dust ups soon. They've been sitting on the sidelines for awhile.
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I have to admit that it's not great for the Raven's most visible character in the fiction be a Wolf. And be a genius that was completely underappreciated by the Ravens for some reason and thereby our entire faction looks like guillble fools.
Who is the most visible Bear? Incredibly awesome but never seen before. Now conveniently dead. Hopefully we get some backfill.
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His "genius" is of dubious provenance.
But yes, I'd much rather have visible Ravens who are actual Ravens.
Perhaps the true genius here was behind the scenes; making Haake believe he was a genius and to perpetuate that myth, thereby pawning him off on the Wolves as an albatross well rid of... If I choose to believe it, you can't make me stop!
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I'm not sure that I expect it, but hopefully now that the Ilclan thing is over some of the other Clans can get some time to shine. Clan Sea Fox just got to throw mechs at things, apparently the good battlemech designs were just produced, not developed by us. Blech.
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Who is the most visible Bear? Incredibly awesome but never seen before. Now conveniently dead. Hopefully we get some backfill.
Believe me, I was thinking of Ramiel Bekker when I wrote the previous post. Re-reading Hour of the Wolf last night, I also thought of Khan Dalia Bekker and her predilection for napping on the job.
That being said, I do understand that every faction can't always look good and have heroes. There are supporters of every faction! There will always be someone disappointed by the nuffies representing their chosen group. The limelight will change eventually.
I don't like the way that hero characters were given to the Wolves from the Bears and Ravens, but I guess the same thing happened with Ragnar Magnusson conveniently going to the Bears (though a bad thing such as that happening to Clan Wolf-in-Exile at that time seemed rare enough). I'm glad that a chapter in Hour of the Wolf was devoted to Khan Sterling McKenna mentioning that the Clan will not simply be a doormat for the ilClan. They will work for the interests of the Alliance.
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For the Bears Magnusson was one of the "new generation" to be introduced during the 3130s version of the Outreach Summit scene in Sword of Sedition. He sticks around for a small bit of one other novel, then kind of disappears.
It'd be pretty easy to grab onto him again to pull him into the limelight. As it stands, he's currently the only younger individual presented in that novel who's never gotten any focus in a novel or sourcebook. And unlike Bekker, he isn't dead.
As for the Ravens? Yeah, ain't a whole lot preexisting there except for the Khan herself.
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Yeah, that first generation of novel characters really missed out. I have been waiting for Magnusson to show up for years. I had to double check Ramiel to make sure he wasn't Magnusson (whose first name I am not going to be bothered to look up on principle).
Stirling McKenna is better positioned just because of her rank. Khan's show up in source books doing stuff. Lower ranks not so much. Again, she is someone who had story hooks then got left behind.
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It would be nice if more Mech Aces / Ristars showed up in the fiction. Just so Battletech nations had their champions.
That's tougher for the Clans though. If you're the best warrior then why aren't you the leader?
Wolf has always had its Natasha and Anastasia Kerensky's though.
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It would be nice if more Mech Aces / Ristars showed up in the fiction. Just so Battletech nations had their champions.
That's tougher for the Clans though. If you're the best warrior then why aren't you the leader?
Wolf has always had its Natasha and Anastasia Kerensky's though.
You can be a great warrior and suck at politics. Or you can be so great a warrior you dont need politics and asa taney your way. My assumption is we need more fiction to get more heros. So yay all the new fiction!!
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You mean my active, stated dislike of Alberto Crow?
Or let the bloodname be claimed by another Clan? 'Cause I'd be down for that.
I always thought that was stupid. How can you Trial for a whole Bloodname? I don't know of any other times this happened. I always took that as the biggest insult to all the injuries the Wars of Reaving delivered us.
You can be a great warrior and suck at politics. Or you can be so great a warrior you dont need politics and asa taney your way. My assumption is we need more fiction to get more heros. So yay all the new fiction!!
This is especially true in our Clan where political ability matters more than in most other Clans.
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I find the whole Crow reaving thing to be a bit far fetched. I mean, were all of the Crow warriors killed as well? (Alberto Crow still survives in the Jihad unfortunately, so clearly no.) So, once the Ravens were in the IS, and not in the Homeworlds, who would stop them from starting new Crow sibkos again on Dante or Alpheratz? If you are threatened with Annihilation either way by the Homeworlds Clan Council, then you might as well breed more Crow sibkos anyway. Not from Alberto, of course. 8)
o
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The War of Reaving book does state that the Crow and Shu lines were corrupted and while they took samples from living members, they were restricted paternal parents only. So, it does sound like they did try.
But it's annoying in the first place. If this was possible, why didn't the Jade Falcons find a Kerenesky to challenge for the whole line? I'm sure in the history of the Clans, there has been one Kerensky Galaxy Commander that the Falcons were sure they could take on.
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But it's annoying in the first place. If this was possible, why didn't the Jade Falcons find a Kerenesky to challenge for the whole line? I'm sure in the history of the Clans, there has been one Kerensky Galaxy Commander that the Falcons were sure they could take on.
They've got one in Quinn Kerensky, so it should be doable at least.
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They've got one in Quinn Kerensky, so it should be doable at least.
That’s just the person. Not the rights to their genetic legacy/breeding rights
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I meant that as a suggestion to follow up with Quinn's bloodline and genetic legacy, instead of looking for some other Kerensky to trial for. "You already have a Kerensky in the Clan, get her legacy to go with." That kind of thing.
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Shame it never happened. I'd love to see Pryde/Kerensky progeny.
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I wonder if any new Bloodname lineages have been started in the RA.
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The Ravens are pretty adverse to strangers in their midst.
That said, it would be a truly awesome feat for someone to achieve.
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I wonder if any new Bloodname lineages have been started in the RA.
Avellar maybe?
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The thought stems mostly from the details on the Great Readings - namely, that new Bloodnames could be introduced during the proceedings and certainly has occurred.
For the Ravens, we're on the edge of the action (literally), so I can't see too many details. Neither has TPTB shown any indication for the nitty gritty on new Bloodnames. It is best to keep things relatively open to avoid future fiction issues.
Nonetheless, it would be interesting to see if a new Bloodname emerges to help with the relatively few Bloodhouses that are intact in the RA.
Avellar maybe?
That one would make the most sense, rather than just some random McGurk or Hennimore. But it seems like the most warlike Avellar (Maya) was in service with the Republic and the family in general is treated as figureheads.
But, then again, excellent story idea for an Avellar who becomes a great warrior! The status quo can't stay the status quo forever.
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Was reading through one of the old Snow Raven threads and just found out the Unkind Ness forum was down. I have been away from the nest for a Long time.
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Never knew most of those guys too well…. But I know of the forum and I’m ashamed to say if they knew me from then it was in my bad days as a gamer.
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Never knew most of those guys too well…. But I know of the forum and I’m ashamed to say if they knew me from then it was in my bad days as a gamer.
:beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown:
TT
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I've got to say I do miss talking to various people from there, especially Spike, hope she's doing okay.
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I've got to say I do miss talking to various people from there, especially Spike, hope she's doing okay.
Spike is still out there, keeping watch against the Tetaetae menace in the Deep Periphery. 8)
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Good to hear.
In other news, I nominate myself to be the official Scorpion Ambassador to the Raven Alliance.
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Periphery Clans do need to stick together.
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Periphery Clans do need to stick together.
And the Scorpions could be a strong source of mechwarriors and elementals with the completion of the Hanseatic Crusade.
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Spike is still out there, keeping watch against the Tetaetae menace in the Deep Periphery. 8)
Excellent, if you're still in touch with her say hi for me.
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Excellent, if you're still in touch with her say hi for me.
We talked back in April. She's working at a casino, and doing well, all things considered. I will pass on your regards. :thumbsup:
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We talked back in April. She's working at a casino, and doing well, all things considered. I will pass on your regards. :thumbsup:
Thanks Crow.
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Was reading through one of the old Snow Raven threads and just found out the Unkind Ness forum was down. I have been away from the nest for a Long time.
Well I had Albatross handle the hosting and the forum itself, when he passed, all of that lapsed. That's why The Unkindness went under. I was also a bit stressed out from school to find alternatives to keep the forum online. Subtext: there was also some weird drama on the forum and I wanted a break. But also, that was over 10 years ago. You just noticed?
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Well I had Albatross handle the hosting and the forum itself, when he passed, all of that lapsed. That's why The Unkindness went under. I was also a bit stressed out from school to find alternatives to keep the forum online. Subtext: there was also some weird drama on the forum and I wanted a break. But also, that was over 10 years ago. You just noticed?
I had been away for a while when it stopped, about that point I was being worked quite illegally for over a year and finally switched jobs. I always meant to go back and check again but never really had the time. Wow 10 years.
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Interesting to see we get the Iron Cheetah in the new rec guide.
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Interesting to see we get the Iron Cheetah in the new rec guide.
It fits quite well in the RA assault line up, so I am quite happy about it.
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Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?
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Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?
I mean, ravens are scavengers...
Also, the Jaguars and Ravens had ties through the Howell bloodhouse.
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Is it just me, or do we seem to get a lot of the Smoke Jaguar hand-me-downs: Stormcrow, Iron Cheetah, Stone Rhino, Subutai, etc?
The Stormcrow was always a Raven design though wasn't it?
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The Stormcrow was always a Raven design though wasn't it?
Yes*.
The Omni-Corvis the Stormcrow is based on is a Hell's Horses design but i would say the Stormcrow is different enough to be called a true Raven design.
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I know it is not accurate but I am calling the Scorpions the Star League in Exile. That is all.
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I know it is not accurate but I am calling the Scorpions the Star League in Exile. That is all.
I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.
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I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.
Actually with the Adders in charge I could see that.
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Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through. I can't wait to see what the Ravens do when the ilClan fallout starts speeding up.
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I kind of have this expectation that that is what the clan home worlds will be when we see them again.
Look up synonyms of Snake Pit.....
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Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through.
When you are sitting around out in the middle of nowhere, there are fewer people to shoot at you. In comparison, Terra is the heart of all the action, and anyone who holds it gets squashed sooner or later: the Terran Alliance, Terran Hegemony, House Aramis, Comstar, Word of Blake, Republic of the Sphere...
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Should be noted the Ravens have been suffering raids from the Draconis Combine and are gearing up with expectation of Inner Sphere wars reaching them eventually. Just sayin' the Ravens may not be that uninvolved anymore soon.
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Any one else find it odd and funny that the Ravens and the Scorpions are sitting around in the Periphery just going along, minding their own business and not suffering any of the craziness the other clans are going through.
Palmyra?
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Palmyra?
Pah, that's just speculation! ;)
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Should be noted the Ravens have been suffering raids from the Draconis Combine
You mean that those weren't DC troops volunteering to be practice targets?
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In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space. Wonder if they are headed to Terra? I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos. Wonder what that will be about.
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In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space. Wonder if they are headed to Terra? I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos. Wonder what that will be about.
Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.
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Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.
I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back. :thumbsup:
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I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back. :thumbsup:
Nah, his kind of "genius" the Ravens can do without.
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In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space. Wonder if they are headed to Terra? I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos. Wonder what that will be about.
Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?
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Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?
Unless we get told different later I would assume it is the Khans escort to meet the IlKhan.
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Thoughts on the composition of the Alliance Militia Corps after (and briefly before) the creation of the Raven Alliance?
They don't get heaps of attention at all, being background actors in a background faction with no canon paint schemes. And that's okay! But I wonder if the 'Mech composition is being portrayed with irregularity - namely, as technologically backwards - while there is contradicting information.
First, there is a mention of the Alliance Grenadiers having a number of Star League-designed 'Mechs (salvage from the Star League days) in Field Manual: Periphery. The MUL entry for the Outworlds Alliance does not show much evidence of this, but I know the MUL reflects a ready availability, whereas the Grenadier 'Mechs are salvage - much as Kurita and Davion salvage is not widely represented in the Alliance MUL. Though obviously downgraded through the Succession Wars, what Star League 'Mechs do you think could be possessed by the Alliance by 3025 and beyond?
Second, the 2nd Long Road Legion is noted as having several Clint IICs (Field Manual Updates). Again, not found in the MUL, but we have ready evidence of a number of Raven contributions to the AMC even before the Raven Alliance was formed. The Stinger IIC was designed for them during the Jihad and the new Devil had been distributed to the Outworlders as early as the 3080s. Is it possible that other secondline units were transferred to the AMC?
Thirdly, in Field Manual: 3085, the RAT entries for any Raven Alliance secondline units (i.e., AMC only) is filled with Clan designs alongside older Inner Sphere models. Although I know that the RAT is used for convenience purposes for gameplay and not for representation of unit distribution, it is conspicuous that the Raven Alliance RAT explicitly provides a stark contrast in generating the OmniMech-dominated Raven clusters and highly-mixed forces for the AMC. Does this support my second point at all?
Fourthly, the advanced lasers of Lushann Industries Limited were being traded to Robinson for BattleMechs (Handbook: Major Periphery State and Field Manual Updates). Robinson produced some high tech 'Mechs, including the advanced BL-12-KNT Black Knight. This would suggest an infusion of modern equipment alongside the twenty-four Hercules purchased from the Free Worlds League.
What does this mean? There are multiple streams infusing Star League, Davion, and Clan 'Mechs into the Alliance Militia Corps. With only four battalions of 'Mechs, even a trickle would radically alter the perceived IntroTech nature of the AMC. Besides the four streams that I have described, the Outworlds Alliance produces Merlins, Night Hawks, and Bombardiers. Poor leadership, tactics, supplies, and pilots (along with limited numbers) in the AMC preventing them from being effective? Sure. But maybe Outworlds Alliance 'Mech technology is actually meeting or even exceeding that of neighbouring Inner Sphere states during the Jihad/post-Jihad eras.
Note: I fully accept the possibility that I could be wrong. There is potential for misinformation, lack of information, misdirection, or misinterpretation.
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I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.
But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)
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In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space. Wonder if they are headed to Terra? I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos. Wonder what that will be about.
It's dated sometime in March 3151 so it's after the Wolves attack but before the ilClan trial, maybe Alaric did leak something to all the clans?
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I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.
But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)
On the plus side, the new OmniMechs (War Crow and Carrion Crow) indicate a significant build-up of Raven frontline forces. And hey, maybe the Ravens will actually use the WarShips for once.
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Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.
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Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.
I don’t know of any canon reference to an R-team being anything other than two mechs, two points of battle armor, and a team of technicians with their recovery vehicles.
I think the question is whether you have the protos replace the mechs or the battle armor. I could argue either one. But I would presume that protomechs replace battlemechs, not battle armor. But no battlemechs, especially omnimechs, could also leave the battle armor without a ride unless you put them on the recovery vehicles.
Unless someone else knows of a reference, I think this is your call.
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Maybe as a part of an S-Team?
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I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?
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I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?
Maybe someone else will have a reference, but I don’t know of anything in the canon that answers these questions definitively.
My head canon is that R-teams are temporary formations and thus have the same paint schemes as their parent clusters and galaxies because they’re formed from them. If R-teams were separate, permanent formations, there’d be a lot of mechs and Elementals standing around waiting to perform guard duty for battlefield recovery operations, which seems like a waste of war machines and talent in the least wasteful Clan. It makes more sense that some points in a cluster or galaxy cross-train with techs so that the cluster can activate R-teams as needed for recovery as a battle winds down.
I would also guess that R-team duty is viewed as beneath the best warriors in any given cluster or galaxy. So I would imagine it goes to the secondline clusters in a galaxy or the secondline mech trinaries/binaries (if any) in a frontline cluster. Since R-team duty prefers/requires that mechs have hands, that would also seem to weigh more heavily in favor of Clan secondline battlemechs over Clan omnimechs, which often lack hands in various configurations.
But again, unless someone else has a canon reference, this is up to your head canon.
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Again, I appreciate your time and input.
That's a very good point about their potential nature as ad-hoc formations vs standing. I guess I had considered them to be specially-trained standing formations, but it makes much more sense that they'd spend most of the battle fighting in their component Stars before being detached for some Isorla. Would also make it a lot easier to get such groups included in a typical bid as well. I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?
The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage. Unless the Ravens ensure they have plenty of Salamanders or maybe use Sylphs as the two Points of BA, it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).
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I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?
I would guess that the battle armor elements of the R-team guard the isorla while the mechs go back to base (or behind lines or whatever) to escort the techs to the isorla. Or maybe the battle armor and mechs guard the isorla, and the techs are expected to make their way to the isorla unescorted.
But either way, I can’t imagine that the techs and their recovery vehicles are exposed to combat on the line or mapsheet or whatever until there is secured isorla.
The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage.
The operational scenarios above sorta takes care of this. You peel off a couple Elemental points from your cluster to guard the isorla, so the Elementals don’t go anywhere and it doesn’t matter for the R-team operation whether the associated mechs are omnis or standards.
It will matter afterwards if the Elementals are expected to rejoin the cluster and it has moved on. But maybe secondline APCs/IFVs can take care of this if the mechs are standards.
it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).
There’s just no a lot to go on with respect to R-teams in the canon. I think you’re free to innovate.
I wrote up this TO&E for a Raven Solahma formation. At the bottom, I did attach standing R-teams using Spheroid mechs refit with Clan weapons from the canon. (And they don’t conform to the two mech/two BA point standard.) But I think R-teams being temporary, cross-trained formations makes more sense.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/clan-snow-raven-xi-penal-solahma-black-ops-the-unkindness-the-gilded-cage/msg1453167/#msg1453167 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/clan-snow-raven-xi-penal-solahma-black-ops-the-unkindness-the-gilded-cage/msg1453167/#msg1453167)
Upstream in this thread, I think there’s a discussion of R-teams for salvage in space, which may also be useful.
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Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.
I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.
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I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.
Yes more Leviathan IIIs
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Speck is asking for fan-funding interest in an IWM version of the Raven Gossamer VTOL:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-financing-2-0/fin-finance-2-0-questions/450/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-financing-2-0/fin-finance-2-0-questions/450/)
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Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.
what is an R team?
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Recovery Team.
IIRC, it's a unit of warriors and techs who can move to quickly salvage/claim Isorla during a trial or battle. Unique to Clan Snow Raven.
Things like this help to give them the "scavenger" image among their enemy Clans back in the Kerensky Cluster. But unfairly so, because the Ravens are simply the least wasteful of the Clans.
They work while under fire at times. Thus the warrior presence.
They can also recover dropships on the ground or in space, and even warships if time allows.
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Recovery Team.
IIRC, it's a unit of warriors and techs who can move to quickly salvage/claim Isorla during a trial or battle. Unique to Clan Snow Raven.
They also trained non-Clan Alliance Military Corps (AMC) units to utilize R-Teams as of 3067 (according to Field Manual -Updates).
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Semantics at this point. They are both the Raven Alliance.
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So how are the ravens currently employing their military? Elite clan galaxies, with protos mixed in, regular/green AMC with armor?
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Not a lot of details about that at the moment. Some of the other Raven posters might know more, though.
One can only hope the Ravens get more love in the future.
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The Raven Galaxies are largely frontline with strong experience levels and rely largely on OmniMechs. Those numbers have dropped, unfortunately, since the Jihad, but Khan McKenna has planned a series of new OmniMechs to act as the backbone for a building touman (War Crow, Carrion Crow). The Galaxies have been the primary offensive and defensive units of the Raven Alliance.
ProtoMechs have proliferated, although they and Elementals have also been used as auxiliary units to support the AMC. Certain units, such as the Stinger IIC and the Devil, have also provided the Alliance Ground Defence Arm (AGDA) with Clan technology, but the process of upgrading the AGDA has taken decades to see any significant progress. It largely remains a garrison force to backup the Clan forces and is not highly experienced.
The aerospace regiments remain the strongest part of the AMC. They can act as strong secondline forces to the Raven fleet, which has activated a number of its WarShips amidst the growing conflicts. The largest concern has been about providing enough pilots to meet the demands of the carrier WarShips, but I anticipate that this problem has been solved in the last in-game decade.
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Semantics at this point. They are both the Raven Alliance.
True, missed the quote with the 3145 part in the original question. Next time coffee, then post.
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True, missed the quote with the 3145 part in the original question. Next time coffee, then post.
No prob, it's all close enough.
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Here's a question for y'all: if you were to design a Raven Glider Protomech, what would you give it for a loadout?
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Here's a question for y'all: if you were to design a Raven Glider Protomech, what would you give it for a loadout?
Light TAG + Light AP.
High-speed recon.
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Looks like we'll likely get a plastic White Raven in the upcoming Kickstarter (or Black Python, if you prefer).
It's just so hard to swallow the high BV of the newer tech! 2900 for the White Raven at 75 tonnes. That being said, the Ravens never really had faction-specific 'Mechs until they moved to the Inner Sphere and became relevant to the plot. Instead of the usual raft of Timber Wolves, Novas, and Warhawks, I really want to field a Star that is absolutely, clearly a Snow Raven Star - including our faction-specific technology in the Ferro-Lamellor, too!
I would love to see the War Crow and Carrion Crow appear in plastic, since they were in the Rec Guides. Plus, a Deimos would be lovely...
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Now we can field entire stars of mechs with "crow" in the name. :D
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Looks like we'll likely get a plastic White Raven in the upcoming Kickstarter (or Black Python, if you prefer).
It's just so hard to swallow the high BV of the newer tech! 2900 for the White Raven at 75 tonnes. That being said, the Ravens never really had faction-specific 'Mechs until they moved to the Inner Sphere and became relevant to the plot. Instead of the usual raft of Timber Wolves, Novas, and Warhawks, I really want to field a Star that is absolutely, clearly a Snow Raven Star - including our faction-specific technology in the Ferro-Lamellor, too!
I would love to see the War Crow and Carrion Crow appear in plastic, since they were in the Rec Guides. Plus, a Deimos would be lovely...
I doubt we'll see a plastic War Crow with IWM making a metal version, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong and see both it and the Carrion Crow in a future Force Pack.
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Now we can field entire stars of mechs with "crow" in the name. :D
You rang? 8)
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So five Points of Export (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Crow), eh?
TT
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So five Points of Export (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Crow), eh?
TT
Hmm, how many Gauss Rifles could we slap on those?
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It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎
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It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎
Hey DG, long time no see, how the jolly devil are you?
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It occurred to me the other day: with the Pulverizer in production by the Ravens I’m surprised that their weren’t more Trials against them because of the Wolverine connection. I know they mentioned some in the TRO: GC write-up but still. Still a fantastic mech :)
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It has been literal years, but I'm here to hit the Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom™️ 😎
Good heavens, you're alive ;D
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It occurred to me the other day: with the Pulverizer in production by the Ravens I’m surprised that their weren’t more Trials against them because of the Wolverine connection. I know they mentioned some in the TRO: GC write-up but still. Still a fantastic mech :)
Kingfisher is better 8)