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Author Topic: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom  (Read 68857 times)

Jaim Magnus

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #630 on: 17 October 2021, 19:38:26 »
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.
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rebs

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #631 on: 17 October 2021, 19:57:55 »
Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.

I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back.  :thumbsup:

Jaim Magnus

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #632 on: 17 October 2021, 20:27:23 »
I was secretly hoping that they wanted Haake Sukhanov back.  :thumbsup:

Nah, his kind of "genius" the Ravens can do without.
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Nibs

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #633 on: 18 October 2021, 00:49:07 »
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?

Rainbow 6

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #634 on: 18 October 2021, 09:48:38 »
Is that the naval star that we saw escorting the Khans to meet the new ilKhan in Hour of the Wolf? Or even more WarShips heading to Terran space?

Unless we get told different later I would assume it is the Khans escort to meet the IlKhan.

Nibs

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #635 on: 27 October 2021, 00:34:30 »
Thoughts on the composition of the Alliance Militia Corps after (and briefly before) the creation of the Raven Alliance?

They don't get heaps of attention at all, being background actors in a background faction with no canon paint schemes. And that's okay! But I wonder if the 'Mech composition is being portrayed with irregularity - namely, as technologically backwards - while there is contradicting information.



First, there is a mention of the Alliance Grenadiers having a number of Star League-designed 'Mechs (salvage from the Star League days) in Field Manual: Periphery. The MUL entry for the Outworlds Alliance does not show much evidence of this, but I know the MUL reflects a ready availability, whereas the Grenadier 'Mechs are salvage - much as Kurita and Davion salvage is not widely represented in the Alliance MUL. Though obviously downgraded through the Succession Wars, what Star League 'Mechs do you think could be possessed by the Alliance by 3025 and beyond?

Second, the 2nd Long Road Legion is noted as having several Clint IICs (Field Manual Updates). Again, not found in the MUL, but we have ready evidence of a number of Raven contributions to the AMC even before the Raven Alliance was formed. The Stinger IIC was designed for them during the Jihad and the new Devil had been distributed to the Outworlders as early as the 3080s. Is it possible that other secondline units were transferred to the AMC?

Thirdly, in Field Manual: 3085, the RAT entries for any Raven Alliance secondline units (i.e., AMC only) is filled with Clan designs alongside older Inner Sphere models. Although I know that the RAT is used for convenience purposes for gameplay and not for representation of unit distribution, it is conspicuous that the Raven Alliance RAT explicitly provides a stark contrast in generating the OmniMech-dominated Raven clusters and highly-mixed forces for the AMC. Does this support my second point at all?

Fourthly, the advanced lasers of Lushann Industries Limited were being traded to Robinson for BattleMechs (Handbook: Major Periphery State and Field Manual Updates). Robinson produced some high tech 'Mechs, including the advanced BL-12-KNT Black Knight. This would suggest an infusion of modern equipment alongside the twenty-four Hercules purchased from the Free Worlds League.



What does this mean? There are multiple streams infusing Star League, Davion, and Clan 'Mechs into the Alliance Militia Corps. With only four battalions of 'Mechs, even a trickle would radically alter the perceived IntroTech nature of the AMC. Besides the four streams that I have described, the Outworlds Alliance produces Merlins, Night Hawks, and Bombardiers. Poor leadership, tactics, supplies, and pilots (along with limited numbers) in the AMC preventing them from being effective? Sure. But maybe Outworlds Alliance 'Mech technology is actually meeting or even exceeding that of neighbouring Inner Sphere states during the Jihad/post-Jihad eras.


Note: I fully accept the possibility that I could be wrong. There is potential for misinformation, lack of information, misdirection, or misinterpretation.

Jaim Magnus

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #636 on: 27 October 2021, 10:14:23 »
I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.

But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)
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nova_dew

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #637 on: 27 October 2021, 18:08:09 »
In the back of IlClan sourcebook, in the Kurita section specifically, we have mention of a naval star moving from the Alliance going spinward through Combine space.  Wonder if they are headed to Terra?  I don't think it's to pick up a pizza or tacos.  Wonder what that will be about.

It's dated sometime in March 3151 so it's after the Wolves attack but before the ilClan trial, maybe Alaric did leak something to all the clans?
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Nibs

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #638 on: 28 October 2021, 15:41:40 »
I'd always hoped to see a slow transformation of the AMC into secondline/garrison galaxies, and the Raven galaxies morph into purely frontline. Alas, that seems not to be the direction.

But hey, at least the AMC is well equipped ;)

On the plus side, the new OmniMechs (War Crow and Carrion Crow) indicate a significant build-up of Raven frontline forces. And hey, maybe the Ravens will actually use the WarShips for once.

Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #639 on: 26 November 2021, 21:38:04 »
Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #640 on: 27 November 2021, 00:09:20 »
Sorry if this is rehashing on old fare, but I'm wondering if it's ever been said how the structure of the R-Team has changed with the introduction of ProtoMechs? I have a number of Proto minis that, by 3145, are pretty proprietary to the Ravens, and would like to include them in a campaign scenario or three.

I don’t know of any canon reference to an R-team being anything other than two mechs, two points of battle armor, and a team of technicians with their recovery vehicles.

I think the question is whether you have the protos replace the mechs or the battle armor.  I could argue either one.  But I would presume that protomechs replace battlemechs, not battle armor.  But no battlemechs, especially omnimechs, could also leave the battle armor without a ride unless you put them on the recovery vehicles.

Unless someone else knows of a reference, I think this is your call.
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Maingunnery

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #641 on: 27 November 2021, 05:09:44 »
Maybe as a part of an S-Team?
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Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #642 on: 02 December 2021, 23:00:26 »
I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #643 on: 03 December 2021, 01:38:56 »
I appreciate the input. Follow-on questions, are R-Teams considered part of their parent command like at Cluster-level and thus likely painted in the same unit colors? Also, are R-Teams more prevalent in front-line or second-line commands, or are they about equal?

Maybe someone else will have a reference, but I don’t know of anything in the canon that answers these questions definitively.

My head canon is that R-teams are temporary formations and thus have the same paint schemes as their parent clusters and galaxies because they’re formed from them.  If R-teams were separate, permanent formations, there’d be a lot of mechs and Elementals standing around waiting to perform guard duty for battlefield recovery operations, which seems like a waste of war machines and talent in the least wasteful Clan.  It makes more sense that some points in a cluster or galaxy cross-train with techs so that the cluster can activate R-teams as needed for recovery as a battle winds down.

I would also guess that R-team duty is viewed as beneath the best warriors in any given  cluster or galaxy.  So I would imagine it goes to the secondline clusters in a galaxy or the secondline mech trinaries/binaries (if any) in a frontline cluster.  Since R-team duty prefers/requires that mechs have hands, that would also seem to weigh more heavily in favor of Clan secondline battlemechs over Clan omnimechs, which often lack hands in various configurations.

But again, unless someone else has a canon reference, this is up to your head canon.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #644 on: 04 December 2021, 08:05:28 »
Again, I appreciate your time and input.

That's a very good point about their potential nature as ad-hoc formations vs standing. I guess I had considered them to be specially-trained standing formations, but it makes much more sense that they'd spend most of the battle fighting in their component Stars before being detached for some Isorla. Would also make it a lot easier to get such groups included in a typical bid as well. I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?

The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage. Unless the Ravens ensure they have plenty of Salamanders or maybe use Sylphs as the two Points of BA, it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #645 on: 04 December 2021, 12:08:00 »
I wonder if the Techs simply try to find someplace to hide until called upon?

I would guess that the battle armor elements of the R-team guard the isorla while the mechs go back to base (or behind lines or whatever) to escort the techs to the isorla.  Or maybe the battle armor and mechs guard the isorla, and the techs are expected to make their way to the isorla unescorted.

But either way, I can’t imagine that the techs and their recovery vehicles are exposed to combat on the line or mapsheet or whatever until there is secured isorla.

Quote
The BattleMechs vs OmniMechs part is actually what prompted the original question about ProtoMech inclusion. If BattleMechs of more second-line formations are what gets tapped to form R-Teams, that would affect how the Elementals get to and from the sites, no? They could hitch a ride on whatever cargo vehicles the Techs are using as mentioned, but that would complicate the extraction if they load up on salvage.

The operational scenarios above sorta takes care of this.  You peel off a couple Elemental points from your cluster to guard the isorla, so the Elementals don’t go anywhere and it doesn’t matter for the R-team operation whether the associated mechs are omnis or standards.

It will matter afterwards if the Elementals are expected to rejoin the cluster and it has moved on.  But maybe secondline APCs/IFVs can take care of this if the mechs are standards.

Quote
it would make some sense to me that perhaps ProtoMechs might replace one or both BA Points if the team has BattleMechs assigned, especially as most Protos do have hands (and I presume can carry cargo).

There’s just no a lot to go on with respect to R-teams in the canon.  I think you’re free to innovate.

I wrote up this TO&E for a Raven Solahma formation.  At the bottom, I did attach  standing R-teams using Spheroid mechs refit with Clan weapons from the canon.  (And they don’t conform to the two mech/two BA point standard.)  But I think R-teams being temporary, cross-trained formations makes more sense.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/clan-snow-raven-xi-penal-solahma-black-ops-the-unkindness-the-gilded-cage/msg1453167/#msg1453167

Upstream in this thread, I think there’s a discussion of R-teams for salvage in space, which may also be useful.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Crow

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #646 on: 06 December 2021, 15:29:11 »
Logically it would be to make obeisance to the ilClan and offer up part of the fleet. At least on the surface. Ravens gonna Raven.

I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #647 on: 06 December 2021, 15:30:51 »
I say that we team of with the Bears and divide the Combine between us. That should give use the combined industrial capacity and resources to take Terra.

Yes more Leviathan IIIs

Known Glitch

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #648 on: Today at 09:51:07 »
Speck is asking for fan-funding interest in an IWM version of the Raven Gossamer VTOL:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-financing-2-0/fin-finance-2-0-questions/450/