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Author Topic: “Save” the Jags  (Read 77985 times)

Hellraiser

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #720 on: 04 September 2021, 00:32:48 »
That looks very D-Wolf to me other than the over the top shelf cowling.

Not quite TomaHawk/-II-ish either.

Is that for sure an Iron Cheetah or is that just a bit of a variant drawing for one of the above?
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #721 on: 04 September 2021, 01:48:21 »
The Daishi's already been in the Rec Guides and there's no reason for the Tomahawk/Tomahawk II to be in them.
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BATTLEMASTER

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #722 on: 04 September 2021, 07:35:08 »
What's it got?  Two ER PPCs, LRM-15, AMS, and a pair of lasers and either an LB-10X or a Gauss Rifle?

Yes, though it's supposed to be a Gauss rifle and not an LBX.

The design's creator has the fluff and some more configurations here:  http://www.heavymetalpro.com/ironcheetah.html
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #723 on: 04 September 2021, 07:35:26 »
Oops, double-post, but I'll make it useful anyway:

Quote
Is that for sure an Iron Cheetah or is that just a bit of a variant drawing for one of the above?

I'm pretty sure it is.  CT and feet of a Timber Wolf, legs, arms, and side torsos of a Dire Wolf or Warhawk.  How appropriate for this to be an actual Clan Smoke Jaguar and Clan Wolf mishmash of designs, considering the Wolves resurrected the Jags  :D

To take it deeper, the Timber Wolf is a Clan Wolf design.  The Warhawk is a Clan Smoke Jaguar design.  The Dire Wolf was an unwilling team effort between the Wolves and Jaguars (Trials of Possession do that I guess!).
« Last Edit: 04 September 2021, 07:42:30 by BATTLEMASTER »
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #724 on: 19 September 2021, 20:34:31 »
When reviewing the adhoc units the jags threw into the huntress battle I had a question about codexs. How often are they updated? For example the semi retired warriors which formed the Jaguars heart unit did their codex all get a great bump due to their heroism?

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #725 on: 19 September 2021, 21:00:37 »
When reviewing the adhoc units the jags threw into the huntress battle I had a question about codexs. How often are they updated? For example the semi retired warriors which formed the Jaguars heart unit did their codex all get a great bump due to their heroism?

Probably not. There was really no one left to update them.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #726 on: 19 October 2021, 12:51:57 »
Probably not. There was really no one left to update them.

When and who updated them? Is it the star commander or colonel? How long is an entry?

Blkbr2020

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #727 on: 27 October 2021, 09:40:20 »
It's nice to see the Iron Cheetah become cannon after so many years, the tie in with the pilot write-up was fitting as well. I was hoping for more than 1 new configuration though :'(.

I wonder when the Jags will get some RAT's and a TO&E overview in the future. Maybe Empire Alone? But that seems more likely to focus on the old wolf empire and the FWL.

Empyrus

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #728 on: 27 October 2021, 10:09:03 »
I would not bet on Empire Alone getting Jaguar info.
Once we get something that focuses on the CapCon-Terra front, that might be the place. Might.

But even so, the Jaguars number too few to be a truly effective fighting force yet. They don't really have territory, manufacturing capabilities, anything.
I would not expect anything about them until 3155 earliest, not really. EDIT Actually, probably should say 3175. Assuming first sibkos are created quickly, within few years from 3151, and assuming the Smoke Jaguars don't test cadets early, the first new Clan warriors would be ready circa 3170s.

That said, it is currently somewhat unclear just how large the newborn Clan Smoke Jaguar is. Implicitly there's no more than a Cluster at most, i think. The Smoke Jags will be dependent on the ilClan providing them stuff for now.

EDIT Looks like the Fidelis numbered around 100 plus trainees. Let's say 150 total. And implicitly not all have claim to Smoke Jaguar heritages.
« Last Edit: 27 October 2021, 10:16:45 by Empyrus »
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #729 on: 27 October 2021, 10:21:54 »
I've never seen any indication that the Jaguar protomech program was being kept a secret from Howell.

But it was a secret from osis?

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #730 on: 27 October 2021, 10:35:26 »
I would not bet on Empire Alone getting Jaguar info.
Once we get something that focuses on the CapCon-Terra front, that might be the place. Might.

But even so, the Jaguars number too few to be a truly effective fighting force yet. They don't really have territory, manufacturing capabilities, anything.
I would not expect anything about them until 3155 earliest, not really. EDIT Actually, probably should say 3175. Assuming first sibkos are created quickly, within few years from 3151, and assuming the Smoke Jaguars don't test cadets early, the first new Clan warriors would be ready circa 3170s.

That said, it is currently somewhat unclear just how large the newborn Clan Smoke Jaguar is. Implicitly there's no more than a Cluster at most, i think. The Smoke Jags will be dependent on the ilClan providing them stuff for now.

EDIT Looks like the Fidelis numbered around 100 plus trainees. Let's say 150 total. And implicitly not all have claim to Smoke Jaguar heritages.

Well reading all the novellas closely shows they have their own manufacturing capacity, particularly in Surrender Your Dreams. They manufactured their own designs and heavily customized them. They also train more warriors and only had some of their available forces available to the republic at any given time. One century (100 warriors was always on call to the Republic), but they had more warriors. The iron wombs have been up and running, I think is in the text in Rock of the Republic (not 100% on that). Both the current Kahn and SaKahn are from iron wombs, Paul Moon was past child bearing age and the Howell is related to Trent (based on the Ill Clan text).

I'm not thinking they will be a huge force, but they should have enough for a couple/several clusters.

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #731 on: 27 October 2021, 10:48:11 »
I don't recall anything about the books involving Fidelis. Never liked Surrender Your Dreams due to its weird chronology, had massive issues following the plot. And later books involving them, forgot all already, wasn't invested in them in any way.
Dunno why but while i didn't care for the Fidelis, the Jags getting back makes them more interesting. Or, at least interesting in that they have potential to become something new and interesting.

I did forget that the Fidelis did use sibkos already. But they will need to expand the system considerably, as it seems the Fidelis were rather small organization even compared to the Exile Wolves and Nova Cats. That requires sufficient resources and people though.

As for manufacturing capability, what's on New Earth? Assuming the new Smoke Jaguars get to keep that as their home base. There used to be a NETC plant certainly, but is it still around?
EDIT Ah, at least the Kheper was made on New Earth. So there's a new factory. The Jags will have some manufacturing base, but figure it'll take some time to upgrade to fully ClanTech, ignoring their propensity for customizing and improving equipment.
EDIT and Uraeus. Kinda nice, like both 'Mechs. Inner Sphere-tech based Jaguar unit could be fun project.

For Clusters, think average Cluster falls into 75 'Mech range at most? Somewhere between Spheroid Battalions and Regiments.
If they indeed have more warriors than just the 100 serving the Republic, perhaps upper limit of 3 Clusters (a small Galaxy), somewhere between 150-225 'Mechs, would that make sense?
« Last Edit: 27 October 2021, 10:53:26 by Empyrus »
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MarauderD

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #732 on: 27 October 2021, 11:15:07 »
Really hoping the Jags in 3151 get access to 'traditional' Jag omnis like the Mist Lynx/Arctic Cheetah, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Warhawk, and Dire Wolf (Maybe Iron Cheetah instead?).

Would love to be able to use my Clan Invasion Smoke Jaguar Galaxy for the current, ilClan era Smoke Jaguars.  Because I'm lazy!

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #733 on: 27 October 2021, 11:19:36 »
Don't get me wrong, traditional 'Mechs are fine. But i also think them having access to lower tech would be fun, makes for a different and interesting thing.
Of Homeworld Clans, i think the ones i was most interested in were the Steel Vipers (due the fact they had relatively large amounts of conventional infantry), and the Blood Spirits due to their resource-poor nature meaning they focused on SFE and generally "lower tech" designs than the other Clans.

So a Spheroid Clan going for heavily for Spheroid designs for a time being would be interesting.
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #734 on: 27 October 2021, 13:01:19 »
As for manufacturing capability, what's on New Earth? Assuming the new Smoke Jaguars get to keep that as their home base. There used to be a NETC plant certainly, but is it still around?
EDIT Ah, at least the Kheper was made on New Earth. So there's a new factory. The Jags will have some manufacturing base, but figure it'll take some time to upgrade to fully ClanTech, ignoring their propensity for customizing and improving equipment.
EDIT and Uraeus. Kinda nice, like both 'Mechs. Inner Sphere-tech based Jaguar unit could be fun project.

For Clusters, think average Cluster falls into 75 'Mech range at most? Somewhere between Spheroid Battalions and Regiments.
If they indeed have more warriors than just the 100 serving the Republic, perhaps upper limit of 3 Clusters (a small Galaxy), somewhere between 150-225 'Mechs, would that make sense?

Yeah that sounds likely. I'm thinking the manufacturing capacity was enough to build small volumes of their chosen mechs, but not enough to pump out a ton of units. If I recall correctly they had an island / continent to themselves with all their facilities there. Most of what we have is vague information so the writers can pretty much fill in the blanks on capacity / size etc. whenever they want to flesh it out in the timeline. 

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #735 on: 27 October 2021, 16:14:10 »
But it was a secret from osis?

Doubtful, unless he'd just missed the report about the project.
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #736 on: 28 October 2021, 16:28:54 »
As for manufacturing capability, what's on New Earth? Assuming the new Smoke Jaguars get to keep that as their home base. There used to be a NETC plant certainly, but is it still around?
EDIT Ah, at least the Kheper was made on New Earth. So there's a new factory. The Jags will have some manufacturing base, but figure it'll take some time to upgrade to fully ClanTech, ignoring their propensity for customizing and improving equipment.
EDIT and Uraeus. Kinda nice, like both 'Mechs. Inner Sphere-tech based Jaguar unit could be fun project.


Yeah that sounds likely. I'm thinking the manufacturing capacity was enough to build small volumes of their chosen mechs, but not enough to pump out a ton of units. If I recall correctly they had an island / continent to themselves with all their facilities there. Most of what we have is vague information so the writers can pretty much fill in the blanks on capacity / size etc. whenever they want to flesh it out in the timeline. 

My MW1E campaign was based out of New Earth back in the 80/90s

TPTB Authors gutted New Earth...... AGAIN....... In the Jihad.

Amaris,  House Armies,   WoB/Clans,   my pain is never ending.

I even tried to clarify that one of the Factories survived based on conflicting source data in Ask The Writers.

They answered that it was 2 different factories, so the NE one was Gutted & the notation about the Trebaruna was not being moved to another world.    :(  The Hate they must have is real.

At this point the only things I have been able to identify being in the Tau Ceti IV (New Earth) system are all owned by the Republic & were not on the Jag island.

Mechs = Kheper & Uraeus
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #737 on: 29 October 2021, 14:50:01 »
The Jaguars were granted New Earth by the Wolves, so they may now control the factories.

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #738 on: 02 November 2021, 17:31:54 »
The Jaguars were granted New Earth by the Wolves, so they may now control the factories.

I wonder how the people of New Earth feel about that.

I wonder how the Jags feel about being gifted a nuked out radiation charcoal briquette of a planet.
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #739 on: 03 November 2021, 14:38:15 »
Wasn't an island on New Earth where the Fidelis were settled? Pretty much just confirms and expands their landhold.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #740 on: 03 November 2021, 17:39:21 »
I wonder how the people of New Earth feel about that.

I wonder how the Jags feel about being gifted a nuked out radiation charcoal briquette of a planet.

Was it actually a rad soaked wasteland or was that just a cover story?

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #741 on: 04 November 2021, 01:13:04 »
Wasn't an island on New Earth where the Fidelis were settled? Pretty much just confirms and expands their landhold.

Yes,  IIRC,  a small continent or large island.

Think Greenland is the way I read it.
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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #742 on: 04 November 2021, 01:18:57 »
Was it actually a rad soaked wasteland or was that just a cover story?

Sadly, pretty sure it was NOT just a cover story.

NE gets ripped up by Amaris, by the Houses, even a raid by the Ryuken wipes out the Militia in 3039,  then the Blakists might have used Tac Nukes to take it in 3068 (This one was "rumor" but not 100% for sure) & when the Coalition came to free it in the Jihad the Blakists full on Nuked it & Wrecked most of the factories when they were losing.  If it wasn't for the RotS repopulation efforts the planet was close to being abandoned.

And no one is more sad than me about it. Every time I think its going to recover, TPTB decide to pound it again.

The Planetary Capital was moved to the Arctic continent because so much of all the "nice" continents were covered in radioactive fallout after the Jihad.

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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Empyrus

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Re: “Save” the Jags
« Reply #743 on: 09 November 2021, 06:47:10 »
I had a dream that had a weird bit relating to nu-Smoke Jaguars: They would claim Stealth Armor as their thing. (There was also that the new Star League would specialize all nations very highly. And this BT stuff didn't relate to anything else in the dream. So weird. Anyway...)

A dream only but it really made me think, could this hypothetically be a thing? While old Smoke Jaguars emulated their totem to a fault (despite the name, smoke jaguars weren't stealthy or ambush predators, unlike nova cats), there probably ain't no smoke jaguars in the Inner Sphere, the nu-Jags spent time as the Fidelis who were special forces, and new times may require change. The name Smoke Jaguar certainly could be interpreted as meaning a stealthy predator.

Just an interesting thought. I don't actually expect any Clan to specialize more than they already do, and given the Fidelis background, i would assume superb technical ability is the nu-Jags shtick (like Sea Foxes are merchants and Snow Ravens black navy Clan).
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