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Author Topic: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?  (Read 960 times)

bobthecoward

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Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« on: 10 January 2021, 17:35:41 »
Has anyone tried approximating how old you can stay at various ranks? I know it varies by clan, and there is always story options, but I was wondering if someone did any estimates.

FL/SL, blood name/no blood name, etc.

Jellico

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #1 on: 10 January 2021, 17:53:37 »
You don't get demoted because of your age. You get demoted because some young whipper-snapper with better eyes, reflexes, and 20 years more genetic technology defeats you in a Trial of Position.

There is a prejudice against age, but if you can keep winning you can hold your position. Plenty of Khan rank Warriors got there in their 40s and held in for decades. Though it should be remembered the more senior and respected Warrior can usually tweak things so they are not being challenged every 5 minutes and work that to their advantage.

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #2 on: 10 January 2021, 18:40:48 »
Almost all Clans that aren't Wolf/Falcon have Khans that are 60+ years old.

its not just the loss of the apperance of youth, its being a quarter second slower, your body not being able to recover well enough after a fight in a circle; the sort of things that come with age, not necessarily the number of years old you are.

Auberan

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #3 on: 10 January 2021, 21:00:51 »
Bloodnames and higher rank also extend your service life.

That said, even if you were always winning any challenge that comes your way, if you're not winning the Trials that matter, like further promotion or bloodname trials, even if you're keeping that Star Captain rank for years and years, you'll probably find yourself keeping it in a solhama unit. Some warriors might take a willing demotion to remain in a frontline unit and the opportunities for battle that provides.

bobthecoward

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #4 on: 10 January 2021, 21:03:02 »
Bloodnames and higher rank also extend your service life.

That said, even if you were always winning any challenge that comes your way, if you're not winning the Trials that matter, like further promotion or bloodname trials, even if you're keeping that Star Captain rank for years and years, you'll probably find yourself keeping it in a solhama unit. Some warriors might take a willing demotion to remain in a frontline unit and the opportunities for battle that provides.

Who is moving you out of the front line cluster?

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #5 on: 10 January 2021, 21:52:55 »
Who is moving you out of the front line cluster?

Cluster/Galaxy Commander most likely.

Trent was sent back to be garrison (or solhama I cant remember) by his cluster commander as a combo of getting older and not having a blood name, the cluster commander didnt like him, and politics between the cluster and galaxy commander.

Horse was pulled from regular service by the Khan and sent on a Watch/suicide mission (I dont think until very recently in universe the watch would have been seen above solhama.)

You as a Clanner know you have a shelf-life, 10-15 years barring serious injury. Some might ask for it, out of shame, duty to the clan or duty to the next generations; or if they dont ask for it when given the suggestion they accept it with little fight.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #6 on: 11 January 2021, 09:05:59 »
Age is certainly the main factor though you can keep your rank when you suceed in the retests which happen regularly (of course if you act dezgra then you might get the boot early or even be reaved). Some Clan warriors even wait until they can aquire a bloodname because some heritages are worth more then others (an example would be Ulric Kerensky who waitet until his early 30's until he got the Kerensky bloodname he wanted). But I guess the Clans somehow lost the meaning of "Beware of old men in a profession where men die young".

Cannonshop

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #7 on: 11 January 2021, 10:21:07 »
Age is certainly the main factor though you can keep your rank when you suceed in the retests which happen regularly (of course if you act dezgra then you might get the boot early or even be reaved). Some Clan warriors even wait until they can aquire a bloodname because some heritages are worth more then others (an example would be Ulric Kerensky who waitet until his early 30's until he got the Kerensky bloodname he wanted). But I guess the Clans somehow lost the meaning of "Beware of old men in a profession where men die young".

Part of the 'youth worship' is also that there are things you can get an eighteen year old to do, that an equally educated 30 year old will tell you to stick it.  There's a standing joke that says if you raised the age of enlistment to 30, you won't get many takers or high quality recruits. Younger people tend to be more inclined to do what they're told, and to think what they're told to think.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #8 on: 11 January 2021, 18:44:34 »
We see plenty of examples of Solhama still in service long after they should have retired. The warriors though really dont have a place to retire or be downgraded too. By the time the age catches up there too old to learn new tricks which is why most get demoted to the ranks of Solhama. One example is Pytor, the character from the cartoons. In the novel 'I am Jade Falcon' Joanna runs across him on a Periphery supply world long after his EI had burned him out to the point of being useless. Yet he is still part of the Warrior Caste.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #9 on: 11 January 2021, 19:21:12 »
We see plenty of examples of Solhama still in service long after they should have retired. The warriors though really dont have a place to retire or be downgraded too. By the time the age catches up there too old to learn new tricks which is why most get demoted to the ranks of Solhama. One example is Pytor, the character from the cartoons. In the novel 'I am Jade Falcon' Joanna runs across him on a Periphery supply world long after his EI had burned him out to the point of being useless. Yet he is still part of the Warrior Caste.

That’s the entire point of solhama. They still have enough fight left in them to die

Stormlion1

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #10 on: 11 January 2021, 20:13:13 »
That’s the entire point of solhama. They still have enough fight left in them to die

True but look at the example sites. Pytor was literally barely able to fight anymore yet there wasnt even a consideration of demotion to another caste. In the Clans the warriors are just as much property as the mechs are or there toothbrushes.
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Jellico

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #11 on: 11 January 2021, 20:47:27 »
Plenty of articles around about what happens to 50yos who are no longer able to work in their chosen profession.

Colt Ward

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #12 on: 12 January 2021, 14:55:20 »
We see plenty of examples of Solhama still in service long after they should have retired. The warriors though really dont have a place to retire or be downgraded too. By the time the age catches up there too old to learn new tricks which is why most get demoted to the ranks of Solhama.

Until the Dark Ages or among the SharkFoxes . . .
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Stormlion1

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #13 on: 13 January 2021, 09:47:00 »
Until the Dark Ages or among the SharkFoxes . . .

True. But for most the warriors are warriors for there lifetime.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #14 on: 13 January 2021, 11:25:10 »
True. But for most the warriors are warriors for there lifetime.

No, which is why I said 'Dark Ages.'  The RecGuides have given us a few notable pilots of warriors who had been retired from any military service and test into another caste.  With the Stoned Peace, it does make some sense b/c besides cutting down their Bloodname counts and touman size they would have to cycle out 'old' warriors another way.  Combat tempo would have also dropped in that period so you stood less of a chance of getting rid of solahma in the traditional method.

To the OP, some mitigating bits to age in descending order-

Be a Bloodhouse Leader
Have a Bloodname
Have high rank- Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel
Have a passage in the Rememberance
Be a warship CO
Be in a Keshik or Frontline formation


If you are Snuffy of the Star Adders, scraped by to get a kill in your initial Trial of Position, assigned to some garrison Cluster that shared a enclave with a frontline prestige cluster, just pass your annual Trial of Position, fail to win a spot in a more active cluster, fail to be nominated for a Bloodname, fail to gain rank . . . well, you are getting shuffled off by 30 if you are not dead.
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Stormlion1

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #15 on: 13 January 2021, 19:15:08 »
No, which is why I said 'Dark Ages.'  The RecGuides have given us a few notable pilots of warriors who had been retired from any military service and test into another caste.  With the Stoned Peace, it does make some sense b/c besides cutting down their Bloodname counts and touman size they would have to cycle out 'old' warriors another way.  Combat tempo would have also dropped in that period so you stood less of a chance of getting rid of solahma in the traditional method.

To the OP, some mitigating bits to age in descending order-

Be a Bloodhouse Leader
Have a Bloodname
Have high rank- Galaxy Commander or Star Colonel
Have a passage in the Rememberance
Be a warship CO
Be in a Keshik or Frontline formation


If you are Snuffy of the Star Adders, scraped by to get a kill in your initial Trial of Position, assigned to some garrison Cluster that shared a enclave with a frontline prestige cluster, just pass your annual Trial of Position, fail to win a spot in a more active cluster, fail to be nominated for a Bloodname, fail to gain rank . . . well, you are getting shuffled off by 30 if you are not dead.

Shuffled off to a Solhama unit but not to another caste.  A 30 year warrior has little to bring to another caste including the laborer caste. About the only real place a warrior might go is the Free Guilds.
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Gorgon

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #16 on: 13 January 2021, 19:29:18 »
Isn't Clan police technically part of the Warrior Caste? That could be a step below even Solahma units for warriors who age out.

Colt Ward

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #17 on: 13 January 2021, 20:49:20 »
Shuffled off to a Solhama unit but not to another caste.  A 30 year warrior has little to bring to another caste including the laborer caste. About the only real place a warrior might go is the Free Guilds.

Except- as I said- RecGuides are saying something different.  We get the case of one who retires, tests into the tech caste and continues to work on mechs.  Arc Royal gets razed, and he tests back into the warrior caste (why it took that long for them to tap him when we hear they have gear but are short bodies in FM3145 is a question only answered by changing TPTB) with two kills.  He declines Star Commander rank- just wants to kill Falcons.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #18 on: 13 January 2021, 22:58:53 »
Isn't Clan police technically part of the Warrior Caste? That could be a step below even Solahma units for warriors who age out.

The Watch is one part spy one part police one part whatever the lore master says. While the police section of the watch is warriors they have the duty of cleaning up civilian caste messes, and is looked down upon. In Shrapnel #1 there is a warrior watch story and she’s not happy about being left behind to languish in the watch.

The watch as a whole isn’t restricted to warriors, but anyone who can serve a purpose. Iirc in one of the Twilight of the Clans books Horse meets a tech from the Watch. If you are expected to work side by side with “lesser” folks it’s not a good sign for the rest of your career/life.

Over the years I think the watch has come up in stature, especially among the ghost bears who were able to absorb an intelligence agency wholesale.

Al
Except- as I said- RecGuides are saying something different.  We get the case of one who retires, tests into the tech caste and continues to work on mechs.  Arc Royal gets razed, and he tests back into the warrior caste (why it took that long for them to tap him when we hear they have gear but are short bodies in FM3145 is a question only answered by changing TPTB) with two kills.  He declines Star Commander rank- just wants to kill Falcons.

Also it talks about the Bears Valkyrie clusters being a place to retire aces without much worry about the getting killed before they retire into the civilian arms manufacturing market.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Any guides to getting demoted because of age?
« Reply #19 on: 14 January 2021, 11:40:17 »
Isn't Clan police technically part of the Warrior Caste? That could be a step below even Solahma units for warriors who age out.

There is always the military police. You know policing other warriors. In the TRO 3145 there is a mention of a Buarq elemental who was demoted to military police due to some circumstances. I think his rank was Point Commander, SeniorPatrolman or

 

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