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Author Topic: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063  (Read 22712 times)

Foxx Ital

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #360 on: 16 October 2021, 13:37:48 »
so...the Mastadon...although a quad 'Mech would be far from the ideal, I can't help but think of the Mastadon DinoZord from Power Rangers, and a part of me wants that, lol
That was what came to mind first as well for me hahaha. But that means the combine gets the Dragonzoid.
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GreekFire

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #361 on: 16 October 2021, 13:38:26 »
Reinforced structure is not ideal. Consider a Stormcrow has a 3 ton structure vs the Rime Otter's 11 tons. That forced it to be another bl@@@y 5/8 55ton Mech. Compromises. It doesn’t even make the Mech tougher. Hits to the structure are never good.
What it does buy is what I call "a second chance". That lucky shot on a 10 that takes your leg off 3 hexes from a Dire Wolf doesn't. You are able to haul away and snipe for the rest of the game.

Fascinatingly, I somewhat disagree with you on this. Large damage clusters are still going to tear off most of its locations relatively quickly, but it really helps out quite a bit against smaller hits---those like ERMLs and LRMs, for example. In my testing the Rime Otter was often able to hold its own against the Stormcrow and, at minimum, hit a 50% win/loss ratio.

The Rime Otter is definitely a design that 'Mechs of an equal or lower tonnage can't reliably put down, while heavier 'Mechs can't ignore the danger imposed by its mobility. It's a very solid 'Mech. For those saying it can't fend for itself, I'd highly recommend giving it a spin or two.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #362 on: 16 October 2021, 15:49:29 »
Looking at the Stooping Hawk the Rime Otter reminds me a lot of it. Rather than the Std engine taking up a lot of space it’s the structure. Both have benefits but I think std/endo comes out ahead of the ROtters XL/reinforced if only for the pod space.

I don’t really see the grizzly at all in this mech, much more stooping hawk in both looks and feel.

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #363 on: 16 October 2021, 16:23:20 »
Move the head up a bit, bulk up the arm guns, and switch the missile launcher to the opposite shoulder, and remove the hands. It has similar looking legs and even that searchlight thing.

Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #364 on: 16 October 2021, 17:11:31 »
I don’t know that I’d run it with vipers and the like, only the D can keep up while jumping. And a three hex difference every turn (or more depending on how much it jumps) is hard to keep up. Maybe in specific striker style stars, but 8/12 is too hard to keep up with, I wouldn’t want to rely on MASC or a SC too many turns in a row.

Cruising, definitely it can't keep up. Once the merge happens I find it a bit more forgiving. My Vipers tend to bounce, keeping to-hits high, only occasionally using their legs when a good shot opens up.

I need to play with configs more, down the rabbit otter hole i go... wait that sounds bad
BV starts to kill you when you push the Otter hard. Note there is no ERPPC variant. The BV from the chassis and MASC are a initial hill you have to overcome. That said, this is just the first 5 variants.  No doubt there will be more over the years.

The Rime Otter is definitely a design that 'Mechs of an equal or lower tonnage can't reliably put down, while heavier 'Mechs can't ignore the danger imposed by its mobility. It's a very solid 'Mech. For those saying it can't fend for itself, I'd highly recommend giving it a spin or two.
I ran quite a few 5 vs 5 Princess AI fights to get an idea of damage patterns. Interestingly the peer it struggled most against was the Sojurner. Of course the AI doesn't handle mobility that well. But slow Mechs seem to be able to grind out victories.

nova_dew

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #365 on: 16 October 2021, 17:34:42 »
BV starts to kill you when you push the Otter hard. Note there is no ERPPC variant. The BV from the chassis and MASC are a initial hill you have to overcome. That said, this is just the first 5 variants.  No doubt there will be more over the years.

I haven't been looking at BV's, i have no one to play against atm, i've just been looking at what i can shoehorn in or what a-likes i can make, so far it's mini Mad dog Prime/Nova Prime, Nova with a Gauss and laser, Nova with twin ER PPC's even with so "little" pod tonnage, it's a versatile chassis, hell 55T 5/8/10 Arrow-IV mech yep can be done, would you.... maybe for a giggle or if you knew you faced counter battery fire, I like the little thing, looks and all, so wooooo we got a thing!!!! , now to complain on behalf of another faction, what im British, it's a national hobby, along with queueing  :D
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GreekFire

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #366 on: 16 October 2021, 18:02:18 »
I ran quite a few 5 vs 5 Princess AI fights to get an idea of damage patterns. Interestingly the peer it struggled most against was the Sojurner. Of course the AI doesn't handle mobility that well. But slow Mechs seem to be able to grind out victories.

Y'know, we should really take a look at our schedules and when we have overlap to see if we can't do our testing against each other.  ^-^
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Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #367 on: 16 October 2021, 18:24:43 »
I would never get it past the wife. I can't get a game as it is.

I haven't been looking at BV's, i have no one to play against atm, i've just been looking at what i can shoehorn in or what a-likes i can make, so far it's mini Mad dog Prime/Nova Prime, Nova with a Gauss and laser, Nova with twin ER PPC's even with so "little" pod tonnage, it's a versatile chassis, hell 55T 5/8/10 Arrow-IV mech yep can be done, would you.... maybe for a giggle or if you knew you faced counter battery fire, I like the little thing, looks and all, so wooooo we got a thing!!!! , now to complain on behalf of another faction, what im British, it's a national hobby, along with queueing  :D

I had a nice ERPPC/Streak15 with JJs and SC variant that I had to scrap. Damn nice Mech, but stupidly expensive. We are not Wolves who can afford 1.5 ton rear firing small lasers.



so...the Mastadon...although a quad 'Mech would be far from the ideal, I can't help but think of the Mastadon DinoZord from Power Rangers, and a part of me wants that, lol
I (and I am sure GreekFire) can't wait for this to hit the deck as it ties into the Otter on several levels. It is hard to talk about one without the other.

I will say both are better wingmen than point Mechs.
« Last Edit: 16 October 2021, 18:59:04 by Jellico »

GreekFire

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #368 on: 16 October 2021, 18:33:46 »
I (and I am sure GreekFire) can't wait for this to hit the deck

:drool::drool::drool:
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Zeruel

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #369 on: 16 October 2021, 21:53:41 »
I think what I'm most happy about really is the Bears finally moving away from "bear"-themed names
"I'll give the Bears this... they do not care about "being clan" one bit, and they own it." - cold1

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Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #370 on: 16 October 2021, 23:22:27 »
:drool::drool::drool:
At least it is somewhat conventional. Wait till they see the Wolves' effort. And the Kontio... That one is controversial.

nova_dew

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #371 on: 17 October 2021, 03:36:17 »
I think what I'm most happy about really is the Bears finally moving away from "bear"-themed names

And skulls...
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Empyrus

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #372 on: 17 October 2021, 05:08:52 »
I think what I'm most happy about really is the Bears finally moving away from "bear"-themed names
Kontio means bear.
We Finns have a lot of words for bears... actually kinda hope folks at CGL won't go through dictionaries to find all those. Enough bear 'Mechs already.
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nova_dew

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #373 on: 17 October 2021, 05:51:12 »
Kontio means bear.
We Finns have a lot of words for bears... actually kinda hope folks at CGL won't go through dictionaries to find all those. Enough bear 'Mechs already.

We're Bears, it's going to take a few decades to fully move away, but at least we've started
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nova_dew

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #374 on: 17 October 2021, 06:25:45 »
I would never get it past the wife. I can't get a game as it is.

I had a nice ERPPC/Streak15 with JJs and SC variant that I had to scrap. Damn nice Mech, but stupidly expensive. We are not Wolves who can afford 1.5 ton rear firing small lasers.


I might have to have a play and recreate that config. Yeah we ain't the Wolves, we've only had 100 years to build up an economy and not have to practically import enough units to double the size of our touman... yeah i know story wise it had to happen but i wish it took longer so it was more believable
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #375 on: 17 October 2021, 08:49:56 »
Kontio means bear.
We Finns have a lot of words for bears... actually kinda hope folks at CGL won't go through dictionaries to find all those. Enough bear 'Mechs already.

Never! Bear names and skulls until the end of time! And more axe wielders! And I say we go and take Norse-Storm mech factories and relocate them to the Dominion…. Because why not! And get our Sea Fox friends to help us parent every Bear name sphere wide!

But seriously two more Bear mechs: sweet!

Zeruel

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #376 on: 17 October 2021, 09:01:50 »
Kontio means bear.
We Finns have a lot of words for bears... actually kinda hope folks at CGL won't go through dictionaries to find all those. Enough bear 'Mechs already.

oh I know Kontio means Bear, but Rime Otter and Mastodon don't
"I'll give the Bears this... they do not care about "being clan" one bit, and they own it." - cold1

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CJC070

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #377 on: 17 October 2021, 10:32:09 »
I personally wonder what a “Panda” or “black bear” Mech would be?  Unfortunately for you “no more bear mechs” it makes sense to create themed mechs the Kuritans have occasionally done it because it creates a unified theme.  And the Ghost Dominion needs to be proactive to ensure they don’t suffer from the internal divisions infecting the Inner Sphere.

Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #378 on: 17 October 2021, 14:27:55 »
I have been pushing for Japanese names. About a third of the Dominion is ex-Draconis Combine. If the Lyrans can take all the Germano-Norse names, why not?

Zeruel

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #379 on: 17 October 2021, 14:53:38 »
I personally wonder what a “Panda” or “black bear” Mech would be?  Unfortunately for you “no more bear mechs” it makes sense to create themed mechs the Kuritans have occasionally done it because it creates a unified theme.  And the Ghost Dominion needs to be proactive to ensure they don’t suffer from the internal divisions infecting the Inner Sphere.

you mean the "Rasalhague Dominion"...the naming matters, it shows the Ghost Bears are unifying the realm under the idea of being Rasalhagian, not as Clan Ghost Bear

and that makes perfect sense, who do you cater your society to (if even just symbolically)? the fiercely independent minded populace who will never assimilate if their history is anything to go by? or the Clan caste system that will do whatever it's leaders tell it, as long as those leaders prove to be strong warrirors?

so having tons of Bear themed Mechs isn't actually unifying the nation, it's a reminder to the Rasalhagian populace that Clan Ghost Bear is in charge (whether that's a good thing or bad thing is debateable)
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GuyIncognito

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #380 on: 17 October 2021, 15:24:43 »
I have been pushing for Japanese names. About a third of the Dominion is ex-Draconis Combine. If the Lyrans can take all the Germano-Norse names, why not?
"Higuma" would be cool-sounding.

Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #381 on: 22 October 2021, 17:49:19 »
Fascinatingly, I somewhat disagree with you on this. Large damage clusters are still going to tear off most of its locations relatively quickly, but it really helps out quite a bit against smaller hits---those like ERMLs and LRMs,

You know, no one has had a good discussion about reinforced structure around here.

I have been thinking about what you said and there is definitely a toughness improvement with the Like I am going say. Size helps a lot. That thing can absorb Gauss explosions without losing a limb. The smaller stuff less so. And you can't just gleefully commit to battle like with say Hardened Armor.

In terms of tons, structure weighs about 16 points a ton, so it is roughly comparable to standard plate. The Crit chance dropping from 42% to 28% probably brings it inline with the other advanced armors. But they are nearly always a bad option compared to a weight saver like endo.

nova_dew

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #382 on: 25 October 2021, 10:45:59 »
You know, no one has had a good discussion about reinforced structure around here.

I have been thinking about what you said and there is definitely a toughness improvement with the Like I am going say. Size helps a lot. That thing can absorb Gauss explosions without losing a limb. The smaller stuff less so. And you can't just gleefully commit to battle like with say Hardened Armor.

In terms of tons, structure weighs about 16 points a ton, so it is roughly comparable to standard plate. The Crit chance dropping from 42% to 28% probably brings it inline with the other advanced armors. But they are nearly always a bad option compared to a weight saver like endo.

Since you've had chance to play with reinforced internal structure, any chance of a "equipment of the when someone does one" article on it? Does it really have a use? when and where to use it? should we just make more resilient TV's with it?  ;D
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Jellico

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #383 on: 25 October 2021, 14:39:08 »
Honestly I don't feel confident enough for it. I had to do a crash course to figure out the Rime Otter. I am not the strongest player around.

At the moment there are virtually no mainline reinforced structure Mechs. The Antlion and a Hunchback. The Osteon is Society, and a few XTRO/personal Mechs. I would pontificate my limited views then not get the responses needed for a proper analysis because no one has used the structure.

GreekFire

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #384 on: 25 October 2021, 14:58:17 »
I've run that Hunchback a crapton over the years. It's tough, cheap, and hard to put down. It deals enough damage to be a constant contributor, without being intimidating enough to warrant massive attention. At the same time, trying to put one down quick--like if I'm using its TAG--isn't easily done. When you factor in its additional structure, it's basically about as tough as a 75-ton heavy. The crits are well padded, and even if it gets a bad hip crit or something, the TAG keeps it relevant. In my opinion? It's worth every point.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #385 on: 25 October 2021, 19:49:16 »
Does it really have a use? when and where to use it?

From a design perspective, you want to max out your armor first before spending tonnage on Reinforced Structure.  The Osteon and Hunchback -7R did that right, with Ferro-Lamellar and ten tons of Light Ferro, respectively.

Reinforced Structure uses no crit slots.  So it works well with crit-hungry components, like Heavy Ferro.

Reinforced Structure sucks up tonnage.  So to be effective, Reinforced Structure designs need mass-efficient weapons loadouts, like energy arrays, more so than other designs.  Some Osteon configurations did this well, the Hunchback -7R a little less so.  (Maybe it could have been a Swayback upgrade.)

You don’t want to cancel out the benefits of reinforced structure by mixing it with vulnerable internals, like unCASEd ammo or XXL engines.

In terms of use, you’d get the most out of reinforced structure on slower, damage soaking zombies, like the Osteon, or faster, far-penetrating spearheads. The latter really hasn’t been done yet with reinforced structure, but something like a Hammerhead variant could benefit from reinforced structure.

As an indirect fire support platform, the Antlion is a waste of Reinforced Structure, IMO.  Reinforced Structure is really a component for line and brawling designs.  (I’d rather have more mech mortars on the Antlion.)

This homegrown design takes the Osteon, removes the torso-mounted cockpit weirdness, and cranks the concept up to 100-tons, including Reinforced Structure.  It’s one corner of the possible design space:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/iron-rhino-assault-omnimech/msg1632703/#msg1632703
« Last Edit: 26 October 2021, 00:57:20 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #386 on: 25 October 2021, 23:26:36 »
MUL has been updated, the Rime Otter comes out pretty good due to the conversions. this seems like an alpha strike mech more than a classic

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #387 on: 26 October 2021, 10:38:00 »
Hehe I commented on that one Natasha and then of course a while later the new RecGuide Behemoth variants come out including one with 14! Medium Pulse lasers, and I remember laughing at the time about it.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #388 on: 26 October 2021, 11:30:50 »
Hehe I commented on that one Natasha and then of course a while later the new RecGuide Behemoth variants come out including one with 14! Medium Pulse lasers, and I remember laughing at the time about it.

The Stone Rhino 6 with all those pulse mediums came out many moons ago in RS: 3055U.  So I copied the concept in an Iron Rhino config, although the Iron is slower at 3/5 than that Stone variant at 4/6.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: The Rasalhague dominion: Making our neighbors move since 3063
« Reply #389 on: 26 October 2021, 11:36:38 »
The Stone Rhino 6 with all those pulse mediums came out many moons ago in RS: 3055U.  So I copied the concept in an Iron Rhino config, although the Iron is slower at 3/5 than that Stone variant at 4/6.

It did!? Wow I’m really blind then. Once again…. I’m asking you to ignore me lol

 

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