The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!

[SteveRestless]

While you are fretting about which of the four medium OmniMechs Clan Wolf builds you should use, I am still stuck using the same Viper I had in 1990, which was out of production for most of the Republic Era.
I would kill for a heavy Omni bigger than 65 tons. The Wulfen has grabbed the 30 ton 10/15 slot so I guess I am stuck with Firemoths for another 30 years. A hundred ton Omni would be nice, given the Wolves have two. An assault Omni with side torso armor would be nice now the Kingfisher is solidly Raven.

So forgive me if not having an OmniMech that quite matches the movement profile of a Wulfen seems like IlClan problems.

Hey man, you have the yellow beemer, I'm just a pleb. One of us is a lot closer to being able to influence these matters than the other.

[Jellico]

Hehehehe.
Battletech has momentum. It is hard to fight. There is stuff I have been championing for 15 years I have had no luck with. OTOH spur of the moment stuff can slip through in months.
Some of the momentum stuff is really weird. Eg the Bears miss out on Omnis because they are usually the 4th or 5th Clan fleshed out, by which stage the line is exploring quirky BattleMechs.  FWL suffers something similar. Timing is the difference between getting a RAC or getting a MRM.
An example where it hit the Wolves is JumpShips. Clan Wolf's favourite JumpShips were fleshed out before TRO3057 was a thing so they use the traditional four. This meant they miss out on the LF equipped Odyssey and Tramp of the Bears and Nova Cats.

So because I look at BattleTech in cycles and waves I have a pretty cynic outlook. It is no one's fault, but it has an effect.

That said, get ready for RecGuides Wave 4. This is a pretty balanced wave with good stuff for most Clans.

[Kitsune413]

That said, get ready for RecGuides Wave 4. This is a pretty balanced wave with good stuff for most Clans.

Need an upvote button.

[wantec]

Can't wait to see the new surprises and T configs

[jimdigris]

When is wave 4 supposed to start?

[ANS Kamas P81]

Estimates say the end of this month.

[Colt Ward]

And I love our little monkey OmniMech friend. But as you say, pod space is at a premium.

I wish the little red monkey had managed to make it into the IS- love the art, love the mini, and REALLY want to use it more on a table.  IIRC the old discussion between the Lanner and Langur is that the Langur is more efficient when it comes to the engine (but by a small amount?) . . . but that is offset by the Lanner being more widespread and in production longer as well as being in the IS.

With that said, both designs have to use the more weight efficient weapons- like ERMLs, SRMs & LRMs to have effective configs.  IIRC we got a few interesting RecGuide versions though I am not sure they really exploited what the chassis could do with the latest equipment.  If I was a Falcon, I might want a Lanner config built as a design that could chase down Wulfen, Phantoms, and Ice Ferrets as a skirmisher to kill scouts.  It would also work well against known Republic speedsters . . . might even deter the Scaphas.

While the Lanner has come out in the RecGuides, I wish we had gotten it as a Lanner II where the MASC was replaced with SC . . . and maybe TSM, to take advantage of the possible heat.

[SteveRestless]

So, I went over some TROs, looking primarily at Wolf used designs. I started going through all the published iRCGs, TRO GC, the XTRO Republic books, TRO3145 The Clans... If someone else could check TRO3150, it'd be appreciated.

I've got, from those recent books, 10 examples of stars or larger formations being composed of homogenous designs rather than a mixture of them. I thought there were a couple of references to this, but 10, 7 of them from Clan Wolf, 1 the Sea Foxes, 1 the Falcons, 1 the Bears, tells me that I may indeed be justified in fielding homogenous stars or binaries where desired.

"Before the Republic arrived to take possession, Clan Wolf raiders, apparently operating with inside knowledge, sprang out of hiding to capture the valuable shipment. Among the forces guarding the shipment was a star of Coyotls." - Coyotl Entry, TRO: Golden Century

Several Stars of Dominators belonging to the Ninth Wolf Guard Striker Cluster engaged the Eleventh Triarii after the Eleventh failed to kill Khan Ward in an artillery ambush. - Dominator Entry iRCG1

Seth reported that his Star of Goliath Cs was instrumental in destroying the pirate base. - Goliath C Entro , iRCG1

Star Commander Rojas and his Star of five Sojourner Primes were ambushed by an ad-hoc Falcon force, led by Star Captain Jessica Helmer in her Shrike. - Soujourner, iRCG2

Damian Ward’s Thresher II Star accounted for more than twice their number in kills, and there is no doubt that effective use of the ’Mech contributed to the battle’s quick outcome. - iRCG4, Thresher II entry

Solahma and technicians used two Stars of brand new Ice Ferrets to hold off a Trinary of advancing Falcons intent on taking the Site 3 factory - Ice Ferret entry, iRCG4

A Binary of Timber Wolfs engaged the Rhodes Foundry security forces from beyond the effective range of most of the huge weapons platforms’ arsenals, while nimbly evading what return fire the RAF troops were able to muster. - iRCG5, Timber Wolf

While heavier Dominion ’Mechs held the perimeter, Charlie Striker Star, consisting entirely of Vipers, provided the mobile reserve. - iRCG8 Viper Entry. Bears rather than wolves, but still.

A Star of Novas from the Fifty-Third Falcon Talon intercepted and neutralized elements of the First Wolf Legion Cluster attempting to screen Grand Duke Martin Kell’s evacuation from Old Connaught. - iRCG 14. falcons, but also evidence

Galaxy Commander Alaric Wolf decided that the best way to demoralize the Lyrans was to crush their infamous “wall of steel” with his own. He gathered together a Binary of elite pilots with Tomahawk IIs to meet and defeat the Second Royal Guards defending the Nagelring  TRO 3145 Clans, Tomahawk II Entry

[Colt Ward]

Sorry to burst the bubble but several of those sections do not indicate what you want.

Coyotl, Ice Ferret, Nova, Tomahawk II (special case), maybe Goliath C (what rank was Seth?) . . . possibly even the Dominator.

Coyotl, Nova and Dominator are from fights involving a larger formations, though the phrasing on the Dominator can give some doubt.  Simply, because a star (note not named nor capitalized) is a standard Clan measurement, it would be like saying a Lyran regiment has a few lances of Atlases assigned.

The Ice Ferret and Tomahawk II reference were special cases- the former where a ad hoc defense was formed using what the factory produces, like the Bounty Hunter mounting up in a Marauder II in TP Irian.  The Tomahawk II reference specifically says Alaric gathered the binary together as part of the operation . . . THOUGH IIRC, the same book says the formation had not been broken up yet in the unit section.

The Timber Wolf reference- again a not named or capitalized formation- could have been what was bid to reduce the defenses.  I know if it was static defenses, I would not mind running around in Timber Wolf Primes, Cs & Es which would safely have kept me out of the defender's 'heavy' weapons range.

The only ones that are concrete IMO would be Sojourner (b/c they were new equipment & new formation), Thresher II, and the Vipers of Charlie Striker Star with maybe the Goliath Cs if Seth is a Star Commander.  If he is a Star Captain or Star Colonel, we are left with units that could be spread over the Trinary/Cluster.

[rebs]

The Phonebook and the firefight mode of MechWarrior II set the precedents for me that Clan stars were not homogeneous.   Only Artillery is like that. 

But I would not rule them out, either.

[SteveRestless]

Sorry to burst the bubble but several of those sections do not indicate what you want.

Eh "Want" is going a bit far.

my preferred organization is a "3x Mech A, 2x Mech B" Star, OR "1x Mech A, 2x Mech B, 2x Mech C" Star. I like having some variety there. The only, current case, in which I really want to field 5x Mech A, is the Wulfen. Even then, if we picked Phantoms back up, 3x Wulfen 2x Phantoms would be acceptable.

The Phonebook and the firefight mode of MechWarrior II set the precedents for me that Clan stars were not homogeneous.   Only Artillery is like that. 

Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting.  They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.

[Kitsune413]

\
Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting.  They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.

Yeah, playing battleforce is interesting. Stratops now... but when you're play battletech it's like, "I've got these four or five mechs! they're all different!"

and in Battleforce you're usually stacking mechs with similar movement or weapons profiles together. "This is an LRM lance." and, "Everybody in this lance is 4/6."

Kind of makes playing regular battletech maps weird after that... like, you know you'd never group those mechs together.

[rebs]

All of which is true.  I'd say it cones down to personal taste.  One off battles were my stock in trade. 

[wantec]

Personally, I find most of those phonebook stars... wanting.  They work... okay if you never worry about movement from battle a to battle b, and just appear on your postage stamp sized map to fight the enemy. But I'm not going to want to, on the strategic level, chain an ice ferret to a dire wolf, or a wulfen to a tomahawk II.

One thing to remember (and something that can kind of ruin things) is that the Wolf phonebook roster specifically says it was the organization and units as of 2 weeks prior to Tukayyid. So while you end up with some unusual mixes (Dire Wolf in a light star) that may not be the normal assignment.

[rebs]

That's true as well.

Those arrangements we see in the phonebooks are unusual, but it really shows that any combination a player can devise is acceptable.  It's a timeless standing order.

[Wrangler]

I do fine the phone books useful despite it not being exciting.  It shows mixture and possibilities having force configuration.

Recon, Nova setups.  I know people rather not have too much detail, but i think it helps out. It shows how Clusters down to trinary or Star could behave differently.  Not everyone is going know or come up with something they hadn't thought was possible.

While not in front of me, the Wolf Sourcebook (phone book) had original/interesting Star/Trinary configurations. 


Modern Wolf Empire/Clan Wolf & Jade Falcons toumans in the Dark Age given mix availability of Mechs and other equipment would made for some interesting to field without going bland generic star 5 mechs, go.

[wantec]

My personal preference is to take the formation names and check them versus the formation building rules (last seen in Campaign Ops I think). If the formation still fits the name great, if not I try to tweak it to make it work.

[Colt Ward]

My personal preference is to take the formation names and check them versus the formation building rules (last seen in Campaign Ops I think). If the formation still fits the name great, if not I try to tweak it to make it work.

Does not work for the Invasion Wolves- their 'assault' clusters were for the role not really the weight.  They buy into the 'firstest with the mostest' of mobile warfare . . . though to be fair, I wish we got a good invasion LB-10X & UAC/10 Gargoyle version . . . the C's UAC/20 is nice but I would not mind something with a bit more range to mix with energy & missile weapons.

[SteveRestless]

I just want to take a moment to perch someplace high and howl at THE Moon. Terra's glorious satellite, Luna. As only a Wolf of the ilClan can properly do.

To take a moment to deny eight years of every insane theory grasped at, every epileptic tree planted to desperately deny the plot being foreshadowed.

No, the ilclan is not the Not-Named. It is not the Republic who has reinvented themselves into a clan. It is not Clan Wolf in Exile secretly arriving before the Falcons or Wolves could penetrate the Fortress. It is not a home clan. It is not a cat, Spirit or Nova. It is not the Fidelis throwing off their cloaks and going "we were jaguars all along, and we got here first!" It is not the society. It is not the burrocks. it is not the Hell's Horses. It is not the Sea Foxes. It is not the Diamond Sharks either. It is not a zombie clan mongoose. It is not the Snow Ravens, Scoprions of the Empirio. It is not the Wolf's Dragoons claiming themselves to be the TRUE Clan Wolf. It is not the Ghost Bears.  It is not some clever ruse. It is one of the two foreshadowed clans set up as the contenders for the title, won fair and square.

And had it gone differently, had Malvina and her mad mongols won the day, I would still have taken joy in the fall of the republic, the death of a faction whose very basis is anathema to the game in which it exists. But that did not come to pass. We are not headed into the xteenth repetition of "Total War engulfs the sphere and a battle for our very survival is on, as Malvina's mongol horde threatens to drag all of existence screaming into the void"

Deny. Bargain. Rage. Despair. Run your AU where things go differently. But at the end of the day, you have to accept that Canoically, Clan Wolf is ilClan, Clan above Clans.

One day, the wheel will turn far enough that the Wolves will fall, I have no doubt. But no one can say that we did not in this moment, achieve the dream of all clans, to conquer Terra and set about the business of reestablishing the Star League. 

Ironically, if the Wolf led Star League gets traction, it gives the game the perfect reason for a high stakes battle to be fought by a force you can fit on an afternoon's gametable. Clan Trials. There's no need for disarmament, artificial scarcity, or any of the dark age silliness, if people are fighting Trials, rather than naked and unrestrained wars.

[Kitsune413]

And you'll get to kill the Horses.

[SteveRestless]

And you'll get to kill the Horses.

Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.

But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.

[Foxx Ital]

Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.

But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.

 I hope they build a cluster of Ulrich clones in brand new Gargoyles and unleash them on you.

[Colt Ward]

 . . . WHY was the Cameron at Titan scuttled?  It got tore up at THE SHIPYARD!  You scuttle things when you cannot get them BACK to a shipyard to repair and to keep them out of enemy hands.

[CJC070]

Kill them? I rather hope not. I want us to be done with "and now your faction is condemned to death" for awhile. Very badly. Especially since we've converted the Jade Falcons and Smoke Jaguars, our historical rivals into contextual allies.

But, bully them until they acknowledge the will of the founder? Humble them a little for their tantrum? Take that Dire Wolf plant they have no business running? Win production rights to the Epona? That I could get behind.

Only the crusaders the ones that remain will have to rebuild and clean up the mess the Wolves and Falcons left behind.  Hopefully like the Ghost Bears they emerge stronger and united with their Inner Sphere counterparts.  Then the iClan will get a real fight (and needed bloody nose at least).

[SteveRestless]

I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.

[CJC070]

I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.

The only comparison I was using was how the Ghost Bears treat their Inner Sphere subjects.  From what I have read everyone except the Hells Horses are just sitting and waiting.  What happened next is anyone’s guess.

[nova_dew]

I think people expecting Clan Ghost Bear to revolt and reject the ilClan are going to be disappointed. The only inner sphere clan we have any canon indication of non-compliance from, thus far, has been the Hell's Horses.

oh no, the Bears said they will wait on their own investigation into the validity of the Trial and the death of Mulvina before agreeing to it, and that they didn't raise any objections during the appointment, that is not compliance, that is just not raising objections (I wonder if the Bears have Tucker), there's even a sidebar from the wolves watch telling the Ilkhan to be careful with the Bears because they might know something that they (the wolves) don't want the public to know, Say hi to CGB official ethics committee to the Star league  we have a larger military than you now and a key through the fortress, be nice to the sheeple or we wake up 

On a less silly note, I don't think the Bears will go against the wolves at least for a while, I think we're being set up to be hit by the Dracs... again, so that the Gunji-no-something/Coordinator thing can be sorted and to give the Suns the ability to reclaim worlds from them, and while that makes me happy for the Suns that they get to come back and evolve as a faction, I'm kinda mixed about the Dracs, they get to have some faction development (That the Bears kinda need, we've spent 100 years in the IS we need to actually develop please TPTB, sleepy bear is getting tropey, memey and bad for the setting and the faction, so is Stone worshiping), but we get to have a chunk taken out of us for the sake of someone else's story (Death of the Cats for both 1st and 2nd Combine/Dominion wars) and quite frankly our Watch/Mirmir should know about the Ashigaru program or they've taken the stupid pills for the third time..., let the Dracs have a civil war to sort it out, do something different for the Bear's and Drac's.

[Wrangler]

The logical way to stable ilClan is a stable power at it's center.  Frankly, that's the main issue.  Wolf is weaken from the efforts, frankly I'm very surprised "rules" of ilClan say you can't Trial or Rebel against weaker power taking central control.  Which means, not the way of the Clans.

If previous source books such as FM:3145 can be taken into account, the leadership of the Dominion's Clan side has gotten more conservative.
It hard me to say that means they more traditionalist, or don't want change.   

Wolves seem to flirt with same ruling style of the Dominion, but its hard to say with campaigning to take Terra and lack of FM/ERA book about how Empire is.

[nova_dew]

The logical way to stable ilClan is a stable power at it's center.  Frankly, that's the main issue.  Wolf is weaken from the efforts, frankly I'm very surprised "rules" of ilClan say you can't Trial or Rebel against weaker power taking central control.  Which means, not the way of the Clans.
[snip]
Wolves seem to flirt with same ruling style of the Dominion, but its hard to say with campaigning to take Terra and lack of FM/ERA book about how Empire is.

That's part of the problem, the no trial rule is literally Alric saying "no" to the Horses and that's it, there's nothing stopping the Horses saying "yes" via an invasion and ATM i don't think the wolves would stand a Cat in the Combine's chance of winning other than Plot armour, maybe Tamar Rising will weaken the Horses enough to give the IlClan a chance at survival.

As for how the Wolves treat there non-cast member civilians, it depends on who's writing about them it seems, I think it was covered in this thread that the Wolves pre-Wolf Empire were not nice, but no info on Wolf Empire treatment.

The Bear leadership stuff i think we should take to our own den before we anger what's left of the Wolves   

[Kitsune413]

That's part of the problem, the no trial rule is literally Alric saying "no" to the Horses and that's it, there's nothing stopping the Horses saying "yes" via an invasion and ATM i don't think the wolves would stand a Cat in the Combine's chance of winning other than Plot armour, maybe Tamar Rising will weaken the Horses enough to give the IlClan a chance at survival.

As for how the Wolves treat there non-cast member civilians, it depends on who's writing about them it seems, I think it was covered in this thread that the Wolves pre-Wolf Empire were not nice, but no info on Wolf Empire treatment.

The Bear leadership stuff i think we should take to our own den before we anger what's left of the Wolves   

It really depends on if the Ghost Bears don't maul the Horses. If the Ghost Bears are willing to act as an arm of the Star League army then they'll just squash them.