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Author Topic: Royal Patton for Second Star League  (Read 517 times)

FastConcentrate8

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Royal Patton for Second Star League
« on: 18 May 2022, 07:37:26 »
So, me and some friends are working on a BattleTech AU. One of the things that happens is that the Fourth Succession War ends in the decisive formation of a Second Star League in 3031.

As the Second SLDF is getting on its feet, enjoying the benefits of the old SLDF tech ComStar gave them when it handed over most of the ComGuards, they began restarting the production of many old SLDF mechs and vehicles and by the 3040s, had began the preliminary orders for the old Royal variants of many of them.

However, the Second SLDF also has greatly benefited from post-Star League era designs with the Armored Regiments and Brigades loving the Patton Heavy Tank due to its excellent firepower, armor, and decent mobility and thus Armored Command requests Defiance Industries develop a Royal variant for Royal Armored Units in the late 3040s just before the Clan Invasion (long story, they were offended that the Inner Sphere formed a Star League that wasn't their rose colored propagandized vision).

So, what would such a Royal Patton look like?

acksed

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #1 on: 18 May 2022, 07:54:12 »
Are we able to have MMLs?

Edit: If so, then how's this? The SnPPC is a good complement to the LB-10X, because lighter mass and short-range accuracy, the MML5 adds flexibility, the AMS blunts missile barrages and the TAG plays well with any artillery.

Code: [Select]
Patton (Royal)

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 9,667,625 C-Bills
Total Cost: 9,771,125 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,250

Power Plant:  260 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Snub-Nose PPC
    1  LB 10-X AC
    1  MML-5
    1  Machine Gun
    1  Anti-Missile System
    1  TAG
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             260                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.50
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 232                 13.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     51       
                                          Left/Right   46/46       
                                              Turret     51       
                                                Rear     38       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Missile System                          FR        1         1         0.50
Machine Gun                                  FR        0         1         0.50
LB 10-X AC                                   T         2         1        11.00
TAG                                          T         0         1         1.00
Snub-Nose PPC                                T         10        1         6.00
MML-5                                        T         3         1         3.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10)                      BD        -         0         1.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (20)                         BD        -         0         2.00
@Anti-Missile System (12)                    BD        -         0         1.00
@MML-5 (SRM) (20)                            BD        -         0         1.00
@MML-5 (LRM) (24)                            BD        -         0         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 13
4t         3       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: AMS, TAG, CASE, TUR(3/2/1), FLK 1/1/1
« Last Edit: 18 May 2022, 08:10:46 by acksed »
My Fic: [BattleTech] Not Invented Here - Technological progress is hard when you're all alone in the night... so why not send for help?

FastConcentrate8

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #2 on: 18 May 2022, 08:28:04 »
I like it. MLMs are more than ok and I think they'd probably be the obvious choice for Royal Designs of a Second Star League.

Cannonshop

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #3 on: 18 May 2022, 09:53:47 »
So, me and some friends are working on a BattleTech AU. One of the things that happens is that the Fourth Succession War ends in the decisive formation of a Second Star League in 3031.

As the Second SLDF is getting on its feet, enjoying the benefits of the old SLDF tech ComStar gave them when it handed over most of the ComGuards, they began restarting the production of many old SLDF mechs and vehicles and by the 3040s, had began the preliminary orders for the old Royal variants of many of them.

However, the Second SLDF also has greatly benefited from post-Star League era designs with the Armored Regiments and Brigades loving the Patton Heavy Tank due to its excellent firepower, armor, and decent mobility and thus Armored Command requests Defiance Industries develop a Royal variant for Royal Armored Units in the late 3040s just before the Clan Invasion (long story, they were offended that the Inner Sphere formed a Star League that wasn't their rose colored propagandized vision).

So, what would such a Royal Patton look like?

Royals are generally "What it was but MORE".

IOW not swapping ballistic for energy, but instead swapping in better ballistics and better energy, or different energy, and usually an armor or engine (or both) upgrade, or an upgrade to install supporting cast systems like Active Probes, ECM, or C3 links.

so let's consider what a Patton is for.

It's a main battle tank intended to support 'mechs.  It's not a replacement for battlemechs and it's not (with the base model using an AC/10 and LRM combo) a static fortification (though the armor fraction is pretty good.)

So, what would make a Patton MORE of a patton?

Okay, I'm going to piss off a lot of energy fans here.

First we'll go with the basic swaps:

AC/10 to LBX-10.  The base warload of the Patton tank already carries two tons of AC/10 ammo, so a Royal doesn't need to do more than make that second ton cluster, and in doing so, you've just increased the tank's versatility, particularly in combined arms environments in support of 'mech forces.

Now, you've got a fusion engine, and the typical gut reaction of most players min/maxing is to swap for an energy primary (or add a second energy primary).  However, in this case, that's kind of counterproductive to the role.  If you're going to swap energy for energy, trading out the flamer for a coax-mounted Small Pulse makes more sense.  Y es, you can't light fires with it, but then, this is a ROYAL unit, and needs hi-tek somethings.

Engine swap for an XL is kind of standard for Royal variants, and doesn't significantly reduce the tank's survival (unlike on a 'mech, you don't gain vulnerability with an XL engine)

This lets you either increase the speed (which is useful in the escort/screening role with heavy units and lets you have a prayer of keeping up with most medium and heavy 'mechs)  or you can fiddle with the warload (C3 computers, Active Probes for urban fighting, that sort of thing.)

final swap is standard plate for Ferro-Fibrous.

Loose tonnage after the conversions can go to armor quantity, or ammunition load, or to add an AMS to extend the tank's survival.

You don't get 'forever ammunition endurance' but you DO get a tank that will dust most other tanks, infantry forces, and present a serious threat to ASF, VTOL, and Battlesuit formations for as long as teh ammo holds out.  The base Patton's LRM rack is really useless for anything but smoke or Thunder-Aug fields anyway-it's not the primary weapon and if you're using the tank right, your concern is less about having lots of secondary weapons when you have versatile primaries in place instead.

Notably, nobody built a Canon Patton with an LBX-the 3050 upgrade uses an Ultra, which makes it a slow moving T.D. without the crit potential or AAA capability.

Noting that the LBX-10 is one ton lighter, I'd also add a TAG mounted coaxially on the turret.  This gives you a tank that is a strong supplement for your heavy 'mech units, one that is much better AS a support design instead of trying to be the star of the show.

Ideally, you'd have a lance of these escorting a lance of 4/6 or 3/5 heavy or assault 'mechs, the Pattons working the job of 'bodyguarding' the assaults against things like anti'mech infantry, helicopter gunships, hovertank sweeps and aerospace strikes, so that the assault 'mechs can concentrate on killing other 'mechs and reducing fortifications.

If you DO go with the TAG option, this also lets the tanks act as forward spotters for back-line artillery units armed with Arrow IV, acting as a massive supplement to the 'mech units by having a close-range protective spotter for danger close fire missions to protect your advancing line (Protective Fires or Walking fire).
« Last Edit: 18 May 2022, 10:05:31 by Cannonshop »
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Hellraiser

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #4 on: 18 May 2022, 10:38:08 »
Super simple swaps.....

AC10 > LB10X   =   -1 Ton
SL  >  ML + CASE  =  +1 Ton
+ FFA

An armored brick that fits the same role using tech of the 3040's.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Cannonshop

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #5 on: 18 May 2022, 10:48:08 »
Super simple swaps.....

AC10 > LB10X   =   -1 Ton
SL  >  ML + CASE  =  +1 Ton
+ FFA

An armored brick that fits the same role using tech of the 3040's.

I kind of long-winded endorsed this, and I like your idea better than mine for the time period in question.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

FastConcentrate8

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #6 on: 18 May 2022, 10:49:21 »
I kind of long-winded endorsed this, and I like your idea better than mine for the time period in question.
True, and the flashier version can easily fit in for a Jihad or Erzatz-Dark Age variant of the Royal Patton.

Hellraiser

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #7 on: 18 May 2022, 11:44:56 »
I kind of long-winded endorsed this, and I like your idea better than mine for the time period in question.

Yeah, I saw yours & was thinking that is almost identical to what I'd do.

I wanted to keep it WYSIWYG for weapon ports & keep the tech to strictly 3040's basic stuff.

I also thought about some electronics but figured its a MBT, not a specialist, so I ended up leaving them off & just went with pure durability of CASE & the same tonnage of FFA for thicker hide.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

acksed

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #8 on: 18 May 2022, 12:46:46 »
This variant was a little tricky, as I painted myself into a corner. If I added a ML to the turret, I would have had to reduce the armour, but more armour seemed too much. I couldn't reduce the ammo either. Moving the TAG to the front denied me flexibility. In the end, the hell with it: ML alongside the SPL and Flamer:
Code: [Select]
Patton (Royal 3040)

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-D
Production Year: 3040
Dry Cost: 9,430,025 C-Bills
Total Cost: 9,614,025 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,263

Power Plant:  260 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV FCS
    1  LB 10-X AC
    1  Medium Laser
    1  Small Pulse Laser
    1  Flamer
    1  TAG
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             260                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.00
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 232                 13.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     51       
                                          Left/Right   46/46       
                                              Turret     51       
                                                Rear     38       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Pulse Laser                            FR        2         1         1.00
Flamer                                       FR        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 FR        3         1         1.00
LB 10-X AC                                   T         2         1        11.00
TAG                                          T         0         1         1.00
LRM-15                                       T         5         1         7.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           T         -         0         1.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (20)                      BD        -         0         2.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (20)                         BD        -         0         2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (16)                       BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 13
4t         3       3       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: TAG, CASE, TUR(2/2/2, IF 1/1/1), IF 1, FLK 1/1/1
My Fic: [BattleTech] Not Invented Here - Technological progress is hard when you're all alone in the night... so why not send for help?

Cannonshop

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #9 on: 19 May 2022, 15:13:31 »
This variant was a little tricky, as I painted myself into a corner. If I added a ML to the turret, I would have had to reduce the armour, but more armour seemed too much. I couldn't reduce the ammo either. Moving the TAG to the front denied me flexibility. In the end, the hell with it: ML alongside the SPL and Flamer:
Code: [Select]
Patton (Royal 3040)

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-D
Production Year: 3040
Dry Cost: 9,430,025 C-Bills
Total Cost: 9,614,025 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,263

Power Plant:  260 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV FCS
    1  LB 10-X AC
    1  Medium Laser
    1  Small Pulse Laser
    1  Flamer
    1  TAG
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             260                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.00
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 232                 13.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     51       
                                          Left/Right   46/46       
                                              Turret     51       
                                                Rear     38       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Pulse Laser                            FR        2         1         1.00
Flamer                                       FR        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 FR        3         1         1.00
LB 10-X AC                                   T         2         1        11.00
TAG                                          T         0         1         1.00
LRM-15                                       T         5         1         7.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           T         -         0         1.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (20)                      BD        -         0         2.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (20)                         BD        -         0         2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (16)                       BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 13
4t         3       3       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: TAG, CASE, TUR(2/2/2, IF 1/1/1), IF 1, FLK 1/1/1

Your variant converts the token missile system into something quite independently effective.  I'd actually argue that an LRM-15 might be a tad overkill for the job of laying down smoke, but it's a good choice for dropping Thunder minefields if you want density or to limit choke points, and of course, the LRM-15 is an excellent middle ground weight launcher (on the heavy side) if you're focused on using it as a primary weapon.

I guess my only criticism, is that it's a primary weapon on a tank with a primary weapon already, and begs comparison with the Manticore for the role the Manticore's already more optimal for performing (the role of primary hard-hitter).

But that, I think, has to do more with how I see the Patton's role in general with the original design-it's an escort and supplement unit, while you've designed a very good primary combatant.

It's an excellent design over-all, and a strong argument against my position.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Sabelkatten

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Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #10 on: 19 May 2022, 16:32:46 »
Here's my take - XLFE, weapon upgrades, adds AMS and CASE:

Code: [Select]
Patton SLDFII

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 9,558,725 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,326

Power Plant:  260 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  ER Large Laser
    1  LB 10-X AC
    2  MML-3s
    1  Vehicle Flamer
    1  Anti-Missile System
    1 Unknown CASE
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             260                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             12                        2.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    2.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 257                 13.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     65       
                                          Left/Right   53/53       
                                              Turret     46       
                                                Rear     40       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vehicle Flamer                               FR        3         1         0.50
LB 10-X AC                                   T         2         1        11.00
ER Large Laser                               T         12        1         5.00
2 MML-3s                                     T         4         2         3.00
Anti-Missile System                          T         1         1         0.50
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10)                      BD        -         0         1.00
@LB 10-X (Slug) (20)                         BD        -         0         2.00
@MML-3 (LRM) (40)                            BD        -         0         1.00
@MML-3 (SRM) (33)                            BD        -         0         1.00
@Anti-Missile System (12)                    BD        -         0         1.00
@Vehicle Flamer (20)                         BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      9    Points: 13
4t         3       2       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: AMS, CASE, TUR(3/2/2), FLK 1/1/1

There's nothing odd about a SL->ERLL upgrade, is there...? ^-^

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 27373
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Royal Patton for Second Star League
« Reply #11 on: 19 May 2022, 18:04:09 »
Admitedly, this is more a Rommel than a Patton, but once I found out an LTAC would fit...  >:D

Code: [Select]
Royal Patton

Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Tracked
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 0
Dry Cost: 10,018,250 C-Bills
Total Cost: 10,078,250 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,389

Power Plant:  260 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Long Tom Art. Cannon
    1  Snub-Nose PPC
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      35 points                6.50
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             260                      10.50
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         3.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            0.00
Turret:                                                                    3.00
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 224                 12.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     55       
                                          Left/Right   44/44       
                                              Turret     45       
                                                Rear     36       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Long Tom Art. Cannon                         T         20        1        20.00
Snub-Nose PPC                                T         10        1         6.00
@Long Tom Cannon (15)                        BD        -         0         3.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      7    Points: 14
4t         3       3       2       0      3     0   Structure:  4
Special Abilities: ARTLTC, TUR(3/3/2)

 

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