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Author Topic: The Fate of MWO  (Read 29703 times)

abou

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #30 on: 24 June 2019, 07:47:37 »
I never played MWO. When it came out I didn't have the time or the PC for it. By the time I had the PC for it or the time, I had seen enough YouTube videos that the play style just didn't appeal to me.

7 years is really great for any game. It really is. PGI should be congratulated for that. There has been talk of Fortnite having trouble in shorter time (I don't play that either). What surprises me is that PGI didn't have something planned earlier than MW5. I know they had a Kickstarter for another game, but that failed hard because of the grievances the community had over MWO faults.

Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #31 on: 24 June 2019, 08:29:05 »
Oh, I liked Armored Core in its heyday. But the fact remains it always had, relative to the market at the time, poor sales. Which was why the devs shifted gears; staying focused on AC was bad money through and through.
Doesn't change much about what I said.
You brought it up:
"I feel like the real stumbling block of modern (Non-HBS-BT) Battletech games is just a simple lack of major engaging mechanics or appearances short of, well, being a lumbering, melee-less brute. Having the option of melee-which frankly shouldn't be nearly as hard to balance/set up as people say it is-and speeding up the pace of combat, making the mechs act more 'lifelike' than 'walking tank' would likely do wonders for franchise outlook in the field of video games." No fast paced FPS has true melee (excepting the occasional knife attack or similar) other than the melee-focused slashers like Chiv, Mount&Blade or Mordhau.
Yup. Doesn't mean I want or expect the melee to be like Mordhau. My thought process on that was 'The mechs can literally just stand there and waggle arms and do... Not much else'. You don't build a mech with fists for no reason, and melee wasn't even the main point of that; It was the complete lack of agility in the machines, to the point of not being able to melee.

Nerfing agility gets backlash because nerfs in general always get backlash. I wouldn't take your stated preferences as anything like the norm: assaults are among the most popular class in MWO and lights are almost always 4th place in terms of active player count. Anyway, pushing into the space of every other arena shooter is probably a bad direction to take because it's already filled whereas "tank sim but with mechs instead" is relatively untrodden ground.
And most people I recall seeing in said assault mechs had all the gamesense of a senile potato; And I didn't say 'make it into an arena shooter'. I'd love for where I said that to be pointed out. I pointed out taking ideas from arena shooters, sure, but that doesn't mean that it would be actually pushing into the arena shooter, well, arena.

Well, they nickname them "big, stompy robots" for a reason...
You can be stompy and not move like a muppet with gout.

Apocal

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #32 on: 24 June 2019, 11:19:39 »
And most people I recall seeing in said assault mechs had all the gamesense of a senile potato; And I didn't say 'make it into an arena shooter'. I'd love for where I said that to be pointed out. I pointed out taking ideas from arena shooters, sure, but that doesn't mean that it would be actually pushing into the arena shooter, well, arena.

Their game sense is irrelevant. They play and that's what matters when you're measuring popularity of a class.

You assert that increasing agility would be good for the genre but without reasoning why that is the case. Titanfall had similar mech action but with higher mobility, it did OK the first go around, then poor-to-middling in the sequel. At the same time, WoT had groundbreaking success (tank sims were dead prior) with vehicles that ranged from spritely to glacial.

Increased agility and advanced movement options is the arena shooter's space; there's no reason to go that direction unless you're looking for similar fast-paced action and vertical expansion in terms of combat. MWO going that direction would be a bit odd, considering the fanbase already focuses on the heavier, less agile end of the spectrum and probably wouldn't bring it much more in the way of success. Especially not because part of its appeal is being casual-friendly for mechdads who don't have the time or inclination to devote eight hours a week to developing or maintaining their skills.
« Last Edit: 24 June 2019, 11:22:28 by Apocal »

Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #33 on: 24 June 2019, 19:34:41 »
Their game sense is irrelevant. They play and that's what matters when you're measuring popularity of a class.
Fair, I had honestly typed that portion in the five minutes I had to type that out before I went to work. A far more fair thing to say is that the Assault Class in MWO tends to exist as a crutch (And a pretty poor one at that) for the slowest hands in the west. Sure, there are good assault pilots and good assault mechs, but they are not the norm.

You assert that increasing agility would be good for the genre but without reasoning why that is the case. Titanfall had similar mech action but with higher mobility, it did OK the first go around, then poor-to-middling in the sequel. At the same time, WoT had groundbreaking success (tank sims were dead prior) with vehicles that ranged from spritely to glacial.
Read. My. Posts. I've explained the first point; The game's mechanics, as they are, feel sluggish, dated, and most importantly, limited. Unlike your continued insistence would imply, a Battlemech IS NOT A TANK. It's not a 20th century tracked vehicle with a turret, it is a several story tall bipedal machine with two legs, two ankles, two feet, a hip, a torso, two arms, and sometimes elbows and hands. I stopped playing MWO because it does next to nothing about the point of a Battlemech AS NOT BEING A TANK. Increasing agility and feedback to movement instead of just stomping and static arms like MWO currently has would make the game at the very least look much better (As for Titanfall, both games were newcomers in an arena dominated by Call of Duty, Battlefield, and rarely Halo, and both were released around the same time as other major titles. More of a victim of poor release schedules. Respawn themselves made note that releasing Titanfall 2 at the end of 2016 was a mistake. Also, WoT is still incredibly popular in pretty much every non-US country-US servers notably have the second lowest amount of players at 9mil, while Russia and Europe are at 40~ and 22~ million each. Info here; http://wot-news.com/stat/server/ru/norm/en. Considering I'm American, I... Honestly don't care about WoT, and server demographics seem to correlate with that.)

Increased agility and advanced movement options is the arena shooter's space; there's no reason to go that direction unless you're looking for similar fast-paced action and vertical expansion in terms of combat. MWO going that direction would be a bit odd, considering the fanbase already focuses on the heavier, less agile end of the spectrum and probably wouldn't bring it much more in the way of success. Especially not because part of its appeal is being casual-friendly for mechdads who don't have the time or inclination to devote eight hours a week to developing or maintaining their skills.
Uh... I mean, faster-paced movement and more options aren't just an Arena shooter thing, unless Mirror's Edge, Bioshock Infinite, and Dead Space are all secretly multiplayer arena shooters. Considering I have no idea what you really mean when you say "Arena", you should problably read this; https://levelskip.com/first-person-shooters/What-is-an-Arena-Shooter. I don't think what  that is  describing fits any of what I've said, and it's why I am extremely confused by your insistence on thinking I want an Arena game. Heavier mechs are also kind of a symptom of the whole 'LOLalpha' meta MWO seems to have nowadays; they are the only things that can tank a ridiculous alpha strike, and also dish one out. Mechdads like them because they are ironically so much more forgiving to getting hit once and move at the same speed as aformentioned mechdad's reaction times. All in all, I'm really not concerned with how they view the game.

Although the last thing I would ever call MWO is 'casual friendly'. Most of the friends I have who tried refused to play past five matches due to being utterly curbstomped because the game has a much steeper skill and knowledge curve than even frigging Fortnite if you are jumping in blind and solo. Most mechdads at least have a history of knowing how to basically play a Mechwarrior game because they were playing MW3 when I was still in diapers, so I'm not super surprised they at least know how to move.

Look, bottom line because I don't really feel like turning this into any more of a tit-for-tat debate than it already is;
- I don't actually *want* Mechwarrior Online to be changed. If anything *were* to be taken from MWO, it'd be the art style and cockpits. That's it. Scaling, basic gunplay, customization, all of that would be flushed down the crapper and rebuilt.
- I don't want the game to actually *be* Titanfall and I never did. When I bring up Titanfall, I specifically mean, as in completely, explicitly ONLY mean, how the mechs move and CAN move. This means I just want mechs to be able to SPRINT, PUNCH, STRAFE, and... That's really it unless they have jump jets. Titanfall did VERY well at immersion regarding how much more 'animated' the Titans are, and I use it as an example due to that fact. It's not wanting to copy the gameplay style; It's taking the idea of mechs that move in a so much more lively way, as, again, Mechs have been described as doing multiple times in the lore of the game. I absolutely hate the rigid 'Arms right in front in an L, static legs' thing all the mechs in MWO do-MW5's apparent lax arm positions manages to look better and the mechs look they actually have better weight to them, so that's at least a step in the right direction.
- This is all hypothetical; As you said, Mech Games aren't exactly popular or 'mainstream', and what I want to have happen certainly never will in my lifetime unless someone makes a random new franchise that hits it.

And in hindsight, all the changes I'd want would basically make the game like a hybrid between Mechassault and Mechwarrior in terms of overall gameplay. And I absolutely love that idea.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #34 on: 24 June 2019, 19:46:08 »
**MOD DIRECTIVE**

Alright, you two. I think that's enough elevation of tense not-quite-hostility. Please back down off your positions now before you elevate further into flames and mod warnings.

Quote
Look, bottom line... I don't really feel like turning this into any more of a tit-for-tat debate than it already is...

Indeed. Me too.

Find another line of discussing MWO's future and business risks without retreating further into frustrated text walls about your respective opponent who is Wrong on the Internet about an imaginary large robot video game.

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Orin J.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #35 on: 24 June 2019, 20:36:22 »
ultimately, the only thing i can think of they could do to revive the game any is hire a new map team. MWO maps have always been blindly designed when it comes to gameflow, and most of the updated versions of maps didn't help them any, they just added 10-14 seconds of heading to the conflict zone. i'm not all that great at maps myself (my only experience being a few CS maps from ages ago i cobbled together) but even on a basic level they were pretty sloppy.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #36 on: 24 June 2019, 21:47:14 »
ultimately, the only thing i can think of they could do to revive the game any is hire a new map team. MWO maps have always been blindly designed when it comes to gameflow, and most of the updated versions of maps didn't help them any, they just added 10-14 seconds of heading to the conflict zone. i'm not all that great at maps myself (my only experience being a few CS maps from ages ago i cobbled together) but even on a basic level they were pretty sloppy.
I remember hearing somewhere that the maps of MWO are vaguely inspired by the three-lane setup of most MOBA games, but that might've just been the FP/CW ones.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #37 on: 25 June 2019, 07:30:22 »
The company does sound like it's holding on by a thread.  There too many people on line now that assume game will be fine with small community which essentially not putting enough money back into the company keep servers and guys who runs them paid for. 

They need either now merge with another company or ratchet the ads to help pay for stuff since they've essentially have too much stuff people can pay for with in-game money.  Sure you usually can't buy special variants with in-game cash initially, but most can be bought after a time.
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Colt Ward

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #38 on: 25 June 2019, 10:07:19 »
I bought in to play BattleTech and re-fight the Invasion . . . when it became another FPS, I 'meh'd out.
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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #39 on: 25 June 2019, 10:36:18 »
They could probably generate hype just by introducing IS omnis and more tech from 3067 and beyond. But that's going to be awkward when/if you're talking about stuff like reflec armor vs. lasers; a fifty percent reduction is pretty strong and probably uncalled for when raw dakka builds still exist and are good enough to stay viable. Hardened and Ferro-lam would be interesting but the latter would have similar issues vis-à-vis LBXs. But HAGs would be nice to have.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #40 on: 27 June 2019, 10:48:18 »
What I'm wanting is a Mech Citizen.  Or Mech: Dangerous.  Or No Mech's Sky.

I just finished playing through MW4 again, and ended up getting a VKB SCG in the process. Now I'm playing the space sims, and wishing they were mech sims. ;p

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #41 on: 27 June 2019, 15:30:45 »
I remember hearing somewhere that the maps of MWO are vaguely inspired by the three-lane setup of most MOBA games, but that might've just been the FP/CW ones.

that was a blind guess if anything, or they simply didn't understand the use of the setup in MOBAs. most (honestly pretty much all) of the maps suffer from being wildly asymmetrical and usually disruptively unbalanced to favor one side of the map. they may have meant the capture points were inspired by MOBAs but those are ultimately an oversight.
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DarkSpade

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #42 on: 27 June 2019, 19:26:20 »
Actually, a MOBA style Mechwarrior game sounds like fun.   I'd want to see bigger forces than 5 on 5 though.  12 on 12 at least.

If it makes a difference, the only moba I've played was whatever the blizzard one was called.  Heroes of the storm?
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Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #43 on: 27 June 2019, 21:40:23 »
Actually, a MOBA style Mechwarrior game sounds like fun.   I'd want to see bigger forces than 5 on 5 though.  12 on 12 at least.

If it makes a difference, the only moba I've played was whatever the blizzard one was called.  Heroes of the storm?
It's kind of a tricky thing to do, considering fantastic abilities are kind of part and parcel to a MOBA- and Battletech kind of... Barely does anything with it.

I mean, I can kind of see it with some units, and a lot of it would be bungling around with firing patterns and stuff (Does a unit always fire most or all weapons as a 'standard' attack? Does damage increase and more weapons visibly fire as range is closed? Is there a 'heat meter' to limit how long one can fire? Are weapons handled like a Mechwarrior game?), with a few out-of-the-blue abilities (IE 'Phantom Mech' being an ultimate move with a long cooldown).

EDIT; Actually, using a mix of canon and noncanon characters and being explicitly non-canon would allow for a LOT of cool stuff. I could totally see Berith being a tank/defense character with abilities based on being an incredibly durable nightmare, or Snake Hickman being a scout harasser with abilities based on crippling enemy mobility. (Snake Hickman was a Solaris Games Mechwarrior who piloted a custom Valiant and chopped a leg off a Locust. Seems like a pretty obscure guy, thought I should specify just in case.)

Anyways, I could totally see it as a Smite-style game, or a third person shooter-MOBA-Mechassault Hybrid.
« Last Edit: 27 June 2019, 21:51:54 by Caedis Animus »

DarkSpade

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #44 on: 28 June 2019, 17:46:45 »
Actually, I don't want a moba reskin, but one where you are piloting the mechs just like in MWO.   Both sides are both trying to reduce the other side's defenses so they can take out their base. Between both bases are points that give you an edge if you take control of them.  Some could be one shots.  Like if you take the point first,a merc lance spawns and begins attacking your enemy.  Other's could change sides back and forth.  Like a hanger that spawns friendly tanks every so many minutes.  For extra fun, the tanks could get heavier and heavier the longer you hold the point.  Simpler control points could just start launching artillery.

Let's make it really interesting.  When your mech is destroyed, you can respawn, but not as a mech you've already used that match.

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Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #45 on: 28 June 2019, 21:38:23 »
Actually, I don't want a moba reskin, but one where you are piloting the mechs just like in MWO.   Both sides are both trying to reduce the other side's defenses so they can take out their base. Between both bases are points that give you an edge if you take control of them.  Some could be one shots.  Like if you take the point first,a merc lance spawns and begins attacking your enemy.  Other's could change sides back and forth.  Like a hanger that spawns friendly tanks every so many minutes.  For extra fun, the tanks could get heavier and heavier the longer you hold the point.  Simpler control points could just start launching artillery.

Let's make it really interesting.  When your mech is destroyed, you can respawn, but not as a mech you've already used that match.
Eh? Kinda. Or characters instead of mechs, unless you feel like giving the mechs more personality themselves.

I do find it kind of funny though-pretty much everything you pointed out was the 'dream MWO ComWar' me and my friends were dreaming of back when MWO CW was starting up.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #46 on: 29 June 2019, 08:21:49 »
I sort like it if a game using Battletech's ecstatics would say, if a weapon is damaged or destroyed that it would stay that way until it's repaired or replaced.

There alot handwavery i see that current crop of MWO players won't get that.  If your short on cash, you need do missions with perhaps a damaged weapon or missing until you can afford repair it.   Sure it maybe not as fun, but it makes it more interesting to play than, respawn like in arcade and your off again in mint condition.

OmniMechs and mechs with Modular Design Quirk can be repaired quicker than (arguably lower costs depending on how it's repairs are done). 

I'm curious of MW5 will try do that.  I doubt it, but who knows.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #47 on: 29 June 2019, 13:06:30 »
I sort like it if a game using Battletech's ecstatics would say, if a weapon is damaged or destroyed that it would stay that way until it's repaired or replaced.

There alot handwavery i see that current crop of MWO players won't get that.  If your short on cash, you need do missions with perhaps a damaged weapon or missing until you can afford repair it.   Sure it maybe not as fun, but it makes it more interesting to play than, respawn like in arcade and your off again in mint condition.

OmniMechs and mechs with Modular Design Quirk can be repaired quicker than (arguably lower costs depending on how it's repairs are done). 

I'm curious of MW5 will try do that.  I doubt it, but who knows.
There's a difference between being able to repair in the game, and having to repair in the mechbay. The latter's not exactly encouraging-I would've stopped playing MWO if I got my teeth kicked in by something cheap/stupid (Really thirsty flamerboat, fighting an LRM boat on Highlands without RadarDerp), had to repair everything, couldn't afford it, and then go into the next match with damaged gear and get my teeth kicked in again because of that.


I get some people are hardcore purists about that sort of thing, but something tells me the game wouldn't have lasted nearly as long if they had kept the 'Repair and Refit' stage of gameplay.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #48 on: 14 July 2019, 03:52:40 »
I've never played MWO, but I'd like to, but I'm absolutely not interested in playing with or against others online...if there was a choice to play solo games against a selectable amount of AI enemy, and perhaps with a selectable amount of AI Star/Lance mates, then I'd absolutely sit down for a couple or few games a couple of evenings each week...I wonder how many people there are like me out there and if it would be enough to keep MWO ticking over...

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #49 on: 14 July 2019, 04:15:17 »
I've never played MWO, but I'd like to, but I'm absolutely not interested in playing with or against others online...if there was a choice to play solo games against a selectable amount of AI enemy, and perhaps with a selectable amount of AI Star/Lance mates, then I'd absolutely sit down for a couple or few games a couple of evenings each week...I wonder how many people there are like me out there and if it would be enough to keep MWO ticking over...

MW5 is supposed to scratch that itch.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #50 on: 14 July 2019, 19:04:20 »
MW5 is supposed to scratch that itch.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to make that purchase!

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #51 on: 26 July 2019, 10:24:37 »
I wonder if with the switch to epic Gaming that the seed of mwo may be at more risk. There will be sales but may not be enough if they have to wait a year till they can release on Steam if ever.
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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #52 on: 26 July 2019, 19:30:29 »
Actually interested to see if MWO will appear on EGS, part of the justification for MW5 exclusivity was EGS visibility is better than Steam citing what happened to MWO.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #53 on: 26 July 2019, 22:43:53 »
Actually interested to see if MWO will appear on EGS, part of the justification for MW5 exclusivity was EGS visibility is better than Steam citing what happened to MWO.

How is that supposed to work?

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #54 on: 26 July 2019, 23:09:12 »
How is that supposed to work?

Similar to Steam MWO, maybe some DLC packs, separate client download, but still need to register via mwomercs.com

Again being on EGS is more about visibility to people who don't visit mwomercs.com

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #55 on: 27 July 2019, 02:20:55 »
Actually interested to see if MWO will appear on EGS, part of the justification for MW5 exclusivity was EGS visibility is better than Steam citing what happened to MWO.

I have no doubt MWO will have better visibility on the Epic Games Store.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #56 on: 27 July 2019, 08:52:53 »
Sure, more people will see it, because there are less other games on it to compete with screen space.

I have no doubt MWO will have better visibility on the Epic Games Store.

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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #57 on: 27 July 2019, 15:15:01 »
Actually interested to see if MWO will appear on EGS, part of the justification for MW5 exclusivity was EGS visibility is better than Steam citing what happened to MWO.

you mean its awful reputation following it to steam because a lot of the playerbase was butthurt at what they saw as resources that could have gone to fixing maps dumped into making a steam client? and then the massive backlash on their store page causing everyone just now finding the game to get gunshy?

how is that going to be improved by EGS?  ???
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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #58 on: 27 July 2019, 19:37:43 »
I have no doubt MWO will have better visibility on the Epic Games Store.
Except Russ of PGI said to look to New Year for *any* development on MWO.
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Re: The Fate of MWO
« Reply #59 on: 28 July 2019, 08:51:51 »
Except Russ of PGI said to look to New Year for *any* development on MWO.

Well, development has been pushed back but they'll still stay up on the EGS longer because there is nothing worth buying there.