BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

Catalyst Game Labs => BattleTech Game Errata => Topic started by: Xotl on 05 April 2021, 17:25:14

Title: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 05 April 2021, 17:25:14
This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/

Some notes - read before posting:

 - How do I log in?  You can't.  The login is only for site administrators.
 - As this covers suggestions as well as errors, discussion is allowed in this thread.  This discussion is between the people giving feedback and the MUL team, not discussion among fans.  Please make your own feedback, not reply to others.
 - Virtually all units now have Dark Age availability except the Homeworld Clans, some units we know little about, and "fate unknown" units like the Black Widow mechs from Wolf and Blake.
 - Corrections not touching on the above are welcome.  However, please provide a page number and/or direct quote to support your case.  "Faction X should have this because I said so" is less than helpful and will likely be ignored.
 - If you have corrections for a unit entry, include a direct MUL link to the unit in question in your report.
 - If it's a BV or Alpha Strike stat correction, please enclose or attach your entire calculation and how you made it (by hand, SSW, MML, Heavy Metal etc; include version number of any software used).

Please keep your posts concise and polite.  Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted.  Thank you.

WHAT IS THE MUL?
- The Master Unit List is a free product that contains the latest Battle Values, Alpha Strike stats, faction availabilities, and introduction dates for as many units in BattleTech as we can manage.

- The MUL is official and fully canonical.  At the same time, it's a living document, continually being updated to best reflect all available sources.

- If a unit appears on the MUL, then it exists.  This does not mean that said unit will ever see its stats published.

- That something is not on the MUL does not mean it doesn't exist.  Not every factory, vehicle, and handgun in the universe has been documented, nor will they ever be.  The MUL is what we know to date: what has been documented in canon. 

- Unlike the MUL, Sarna.net is not a canon source.  If Sarna lists a unit and the MUL doesn't, then the MUL is most likely correct (though we certainly do make mistakes, which this thread is here to collect and correct).  The MUL has access to internal information that Sarna does not.



Previous Thread:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-(mul)-feedback-thread-ii-read-the-first-post/

Project Updates:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Negatorxx on 06 April 2021, 08:24:33
Kokou Defense Tank and Kokou (XL) are listed in the MUL, but have no stat card or PV.  The stat card is available in FM: Golden Century and TP: Tokasha
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 April 2021, 14:42:35
Kokou Defense Tank and Kokou (XL) are listed in the MUL, but have no stat card or PV.  The stat card is available in FM: Golden Century and TP: Tokasha

They've now been inputted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: neonarmy on 09 April 2021, 13:06:12
In Sword and Dragon there is a Trebuchet TBT-5K (pg 98 in my PDF) that has a record sheet but the unit does not appear on MUL

Also, in the Second Succession War they mention the Thunderbolt TDR-5L and the TDR-5LS with what their loadouts are but they don't exist in the MUL (pg 116). I don't know if this also extends to the Battlemaster and Griffin that are on the surrounding pages.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 09 April 2021, 13:09:09
The TBT-5K in Sword and Dragon should be TBT-7K.  Errata was posted for Sword and Dragon.

The Thunderbolts are on the MUL
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7762/thunderbolt-tdr-5l
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7763/thunderbolt-tdr-5ls
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 April 2021, 13:52:12
the battlemaster http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/282/battlemaster-blr-1d and the griffin http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1298/griffin-grf-1s are also there.

thanks all the same. it's good to double-check things
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: neonarmy on 14 April 2021, 12:40:33
The TBT-5K in Sword and Dragon should be TBT-7K.  Errata was posted for Sword and Dragon.

The Thunderbolts are on the MUL
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7762/thunderbolt-tdr-5l
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7763/thunderbolt-tdr-5ls

Thanks. i didn't know about that errata. 
I should have clarified. I noticed the MULs for those two are listed but both are blank besides having the PV listed. I guess I don't know if they are filling in all of the data on the mechs in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 April 2021, 12:53:20
those units don't have official record sheets or an BV listed in the book so they haven't been added in. note that one can plug the stats into mech creation software and get something that's probably correct as well as suitable for tabletop play. it's just not official enough to put on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 23 April 2021, 22:32:59
The Shadow Cat T has the role of Scout, but is +1 damage at Short and Medium with no other changes compared to the Shadow Cat Prime which is a Striker. This doesn't seem to be correct to me, was there a criteria change to Striker, or is there something in the calculation that changed the role?

Also, the Ice Ferret T is a Scout compared to the Prime which is a Striker, with the only differences being +4" of movement and -2 damage at Long. Looking for clarification for this as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 23 April 2021, 23:36:52
Roles are ultimately arbitrary and there is no hard and fast "this must be X role" criteria.  The Shadow Cat T has an Active Probe and otherwise can fit the criteria.  The Prime also has an Active Probe but was deemed a Striker at the time.  Suggested criteria for roles frequently have large sections of overlap.

Same thing with the Ice Ferret.  Both the T and the Prime could reasonably Scouts or Strikers.  The Prime happened to be a Striker when it was decided, the T happened to be a Scout.  Maybe for variety?  The number of Scouts bigger than a Light is tiny.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 April 2021, 23:50:04
Variety, yes. It gives extra options for AS/CO Lance and Star forcebuilding - especially for situations where Clan forces have to muster over 50% of a certain type (ie 3 out of 5 elements).  Light missile boats like the Valkyrie QA and Locust 1M with 10 LRM tubes are another example. The Loki / Hellbringer J is a scout... a chassis and weight class not normally associated with recon. That one could easily have been a skirmisher, but nckestrel was (in his own words) feeling capricious that day. The world is better for it  ;D

There are guidelines. We just choose to ignore them sometimes. And sometimes we enforce them - I drafted the roles for the Caveat Emptor mechs and initially had the Wasp 3X as a skirmisher but was asked to change it to a missile boat or scout due to a lack of armor. Ultimately shirking the guidelines is a calculated move - usually made in the interests of fun or variety
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Phaedros on 24 April 2021, 14:11:11
Interesting. So if the roles are arbitrary, then the role requirements for formations are just suggestions essentially, lol. :P

Thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 April 2021, 15:41:28
Not so much arbitrary as flexible. You’ll never see a 2/3 scout, for example
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 24 April 2021, 20:08:57
Interesting. So if the roles are arbitrary, then the role requirements for formations are just suggestions essentially, lol. :P

Thanks for the replies.

Units have a role.  The way they're assigned that role can be somewhat arbitrary, but that unit is still that role at the end of the day.  Formation role requirements must still be fulfilled.

There'a more variety in the Scout role than there was prior to the Rec Guides, but that's really the only outlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Inspector2311 on 25 April 2021, 00:52:38
Shouldn't all of the Clan Elemental Battle Armor units which feature the SRM2 have the Special: SRM 1/1?

An example, but far from the only one:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/960/elemental-battle-armor-laser

Or am I misunderstanding how SRM 1/1 works?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 26 April 2021, 14:04:46
Shouldn't all of the Clan Elemental Battle Armor units which feature the SRM2 have the Special: SRM 1/1?

An example, but far from the only one:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/960/elemental-battle-armor-laser

Or am I misunderstanding how SRM 1/1 works?
Elementals cannot use alternate SRM munitions in Alpha Strike, so the special attack isn't applied to them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 26 April 2021, 15:43:07
It's not explicitly stated in the Companion, but the weapons table for battle armor weapons doesn't list SRM or LRM next to any of the battle armor weapons (SRM1, SRM2, etc).  Empyrus gave the major reason why.

Elementals cannot use alternate SRM munitions in Alpha Strike, so the special attack isn't applied to them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Inspector2311 on 26 April 2021, 17:28:05
Haha, I actually just thought of that possibility this morning.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mvp7 on 29 April 2021, 13:39:48
Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 April 2021, 13:41:15
Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard
Should use the same pic as the Reaper:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7413/reaper-self-propelled-artillery

Oh, and this discussion came up earlier:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/motw-schedule-thread-2017/msg1719690/#msg1719690

Specifically, where do the Daimyo -2KA and 3K come from?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=daimyo
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 29 April 2021, 13:51:51
Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard

Thanks, fixed.

Specifically, where do the Daimyo -2KA and 3K come from?

They were meant to cover the variant fluff from the original TR:3055 (specifically the ERPPC to PPC swap, and the armor for heat sink swap.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 April 2021, 13:52:48
They were meant to cover the original variant fluff from TR:3055.
About as i assumed. Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 29 April 2021, 14:53:31
The Stinger C 2 has been set as inner sphere general in the dark age era, should this be inner sphere clan general the same as the Stinger C?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 April 2021, 15:12:42
nope. the C 2 should have IS Clan General. It was never meant for spheroid distribution. bad data entry monkey! bad!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 April 2021, 12:14:34
I believe the Ostsol 8F should be added to the Federated Suns in the Dark Age era. Its produced on Robinson and while the text
mentions that the Ostsol production hasn't switched completely to the 8F variant it doesn't say that production of this variant was entirely halted.
"There was discussion about
converting the line entirely over to this variant, but..."

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8173/ostsol-otl-8f

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2021, 12:28:17
I believe it was determined that the Suns didn't control the planet long enough to produce a sufficient number before the end of the era. It was basically Dec 1, 3149 before the dracs were cleared off the planet. Assuming they hold on, you'll see it on the AFFS roster in the next era
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 April 2021, 13:15:17
I believe the Ostsol 8F should be added to the Federated Suns in the Dark Age era. Its produced on Robinson and while the text
mentions that the Ostsol production hasn't switched completely to the 8F variant it doesn't say that production of this variant was entirely halted.
"There was discussion about
converting the line entirely over to this variant, but..."

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8173/ostsol-otl-8f

The passage states that the 8F was only temporarily (being the key word) put into production by the Combine. The "converting the line entirely" only refers to this point in time.

As such, the Republic/FedSuns continuing the policy would mean that they would continue to not produce the design, though that may change in the future.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 30 April 2021, 15:19:58
The passage states that the 8F was only temporarily (being the key word) put into production by the Combine. The "converting the line entirely" only refers to this point in time.

As such, the Republic/FedSuns continuing the policy would mean that they would continue to not produce the design, though that may change in the future.

Yeah, Greekfire has it right.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 April 2021, 18:36:39
Bushwacker X4 is listed as having a tonnage of 50. It should be 55.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7454/bushwacker-bsw-x4
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2021, 18:44:29
now biggerer
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 April 2021, 19:20:57
Not sure if it's errata or conscious choice but should house Liao have the Caesar 3S? It's a Lyran design that has no connection to the Confederacy

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/456/caesar-ces-3s

I also believe that there is a mix of King Crabs. House Davion should lose access to the 008B ( a Republic remake of the Wob 008) and gain access to the 007 (the RAC version mentioned to be a Davion and a Steiner variant).

It seems the FS has lost access to the MDG-1B Rakshasa and the JM-7D Jagermech. Is this intentional? They continue to use the MDG-1A and JM-7F, very close designs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 April 2021, 19:24:37
DOL-1A2 Dola should have the picture of a Dola and not Ti T'sang (I know the yoh Ti Tasng is confusing :) )

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4087/dola-dol-1a2-yoh-ti-tsang
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 30 April 2021, 19:26:19
All 'MechBuster entries don't have the "B" capitalized. It's written as 'MechBuster, 'Mechbuster, and Mechbuster in various sources, but TRO's 3026, 3026r, and 3039 have it as 'MechBuster.

Similarly, SeaBuster is written as Seabuster in XTRO: Periphery, and SeaBuster in TRO: Prototypes. I'm assuming SeaBuster is correct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2021, 19:37:15
DOL-1A2 Dola should have the picture of a Dola and not Ti T'sang (I know the yoh Ti Tasng is confusing :) )

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4087/dola-dol-1a2-yoh-ti-tsang

Guessing when I assigned the ti t’sang image I blasted through this one without even noticing. No thoughts, just vibes.

All 'MechBuster entries don't have the "B" capitalized. It's written as 'MechBuster, 'Mechbuster, and Mechbuster in various sources, but TRO's 3026, 3026r, and 3039 have it as 'MechBuster.

Similarly, SeaBuster is written as Seabuster in XTRO: Periphery, and SeaBuster in TRO: Prototypes. I'm assuming SeaBuster is correct.

Once an official clarification comes down we’ll adjust as necessary
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 April 2021, 19:38:38
Caesar 3S?

Not errata, supported by FM:3145 and the Capellan conquest of New Syrtis.

Quote
House Davion should lose access to the 008B and gain access to the 007.

Production of the 007 was extremely limited, hampered by Word of Blake raids on Son Hoa and the relocation of their line to Loburg (along with its replacement with the 009), which is why its numbers in the FedSuns fell off.

Quote
It seems the FS has lost access to the MDG-1B Rakshasa and the JM-7D Jagermech. Is this intentional? They continue to use the MDG-1A and JM-7F, very close designs.

JM7-D is intentional; its main line was destroyed in on Talon during the Jihad.
I can't speak for the Rakshasa.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 01 May 2021, 00:02:03
Not errata, supported by FM:3145 and the Capellan conquest of New Syrtis.



I understand but the 3S was apparently never produced in new Syrtis (It's never available to the Suns in the MUL). I guess either add the 3S to the FS list or change the Capellan produced variant to the 3R/4R/4S
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 May 2021, 00:27:00

I understand but the 3S was apparently never produced in new Syrtis (It's never available to the Suns in the MUL). I guess either add the 3S to the FS list or change the Capellan produced variant to the 3R/4R/4S

The 3S was an export model. Capellans would have ceased its exportation to field it themselves.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 01 May 2021, 06:13:01
Should the Jagermech III D4/Jagermech JM7-F/Jagermech 7-C3BS/ Penetrator 4D be in the Liao list in the Dark Age? The have never produced it and have never conquered  The factory world.
The same argument could be made for the Rifleman 7X/8X

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1673/jagermech-iii-jm6-d4
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4391/jagermech-jm7-f
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1671/jagermech-jm7-c3bs
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2704/rifleman-rfl-7x
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2706/rifleman-rfl-8x
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2465/penetrator-ptr-4d

BTW if you want me to post only clear cut errata and not this kind of speculation/analysis  just say so.
 I am a real fan of your work on the MUL and I don't want to waste your time  if it's unhelpful.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 May 2021, 06:27:34
Should the Jagermech III D4/Jagermech JM7-F/Jagermech 7-C3BS/ Penetrator 4D be in the Liao list in the Dark Age? The have never produced it and have never conquered  The factory world.
The same argument could be made for the Rifleman 7X/8X

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1673/jagermech-iii-jm6-d4
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4391/jagermech-jm7-f
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1671/jagermech-jm7-c3bs
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2704/rifleman-rfl-7x
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2706/rifleman-rfl-8x
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2465/penetrator-ptr-4d

BTW if you want me to post only clear cut errata and not this kind of speculation/analysis  just say so.
 I am a real fan of your work on the MUL and I don't want to waste your time  if it's unhelpful.

I'm going to guess this is due to Kallon taking over the factories on Victoria and changing the lines to build the Shadow Hawk/JagerMech/Penetrator as per FM:3145 which the CCAF has since recaptured.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 01 May 2021, 07:06:07
I'm going to guess this is due to Kallon taking over the factories on Victoria and changing the lines to build the Shadow Hawk/JagerMech/Penetrator as per FM:3145 which the CCAF has since recaptured.


Interesting missed that. Thank you. does it mean The Republic  had began producing the Rifleman 7X/8X on Nanking before it was captured by the CCAF?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 01 May 2021, 07:18:50
Interesting missed that. Thank you. does it mean The Republic  had began producing the Rifleman 7X/8X on Nanking before it was captured by the CCAF?

Not sure, the FM only says the CCAF is getting Wolverines and Riflemen from the Nanking factory.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 May 2021, 09:13:37
I'm going to guess this is due to Kallon taking over the factories on Victoria and changing the lines to build the Shadow Hawk/JagerMech/Penetrator as per FM:3145 which the CCAF has since recaptured.

This is correct.

Interesting missed that. Thank you. does it mean The Republic  had began producing the Rifleman 7X/8X on Nanking before it was captured by the CCAF?

This is also correct.

BTW if you want me to post only clear cut errata and not this kind of speculation/analysis  just say so.
 I am a real fan of your work on the MUL and I don't want to waste your time  if it's unhelpful.

Don't worry about it! This type of stuff can help us pin down small mistakes or omissions.
I definitely prefer people posting speculative comments than holding back because they think they might be wrong.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 01 May 2021, 10:27:29
Field Gun Infantry Motorized Batteries, 75th Light Guard, First Taurian Lancers (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1061/field-gun-infantry-motorized-batteries-75th-light-guard-first-taurian-lancers) should weigh 42.5t according to the current errata version 2.0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/i41m3x1kitujlqa/Errata%20-%20Technical%20Readout%203085%20v2.0.pdf?dl=0).

Additionally, intro date 2500 doesn't match with employing LAC5s as field guns (introduced in 3068).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 May 2021, 10:39:13
Field Gun Infantry Motorized Batteries, 75th Light Guard, First Taurian Lancers (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1061/field-gun-infantry-motorized-batteries-75th-light-guard-first-taurian-lancers) should weigh 42.5t according to the current errata version 2.0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/i41m3x1kitujlqa/Errata%20-%20Technical%20Readout%203085%20v2.0.pdf?dl=0).

Additionally, intro date 2500 doesn't match with employing LAC5s as field guns (introduced in 3068).

Those are indeed issues. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 01 May 2021, 12:25:53
Thanks. And since no good deed shall go unpunished...

From the same current errata version 2.0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/i41m3x1kitujlqa/Errata%20-%20Technical%20Readout%203085%20v2.0.pdf?dl=0) for TRO3085:

The Bolla Stealth Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3845/bolla-stealth-tank-rots-base)'s Technology Base should be "Inner Sphere (Experimental)".

Aerial Beast Infantry (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/12) should have a BV of 43.

Minesweeper Infantry (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2184) should have a Transport Weight of 6.5 tons

Ceremonial Guard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/530) should have a Transport Weight of 12 tons (4 groups of 3 tons).
Comment: Should you prefer to display 25-men subplatoons instead of 100-men centuries, the BV would have to be adapted.

General Clan Infantry: Motorized Infantry (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2233) should have a BV of 65.

Outside of the errata document:
Intro date for Frogmen (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1153) should be changed. Federated-Barrett M42B Assault Rifles (intro 3064 FS) as primary weapons preclude a 2500 intro date.

Edit: removed unsourced Common Intro date for M42B
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 May 2021, 13:56:12
Don't worry about it! This type of stuff can help us pin down small mistakes or omissions.
I definitely prefer people posting speculative comments than holding back because they think they might be wrong.

Challenges based on textual evidence will always be considered
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: weaponsgrade on 02 May 2021, 12:59:26
pack hunter 2 standard version lacks ene special ability
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 May 2021, 13:19:51
now ammo exposition free
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: weaponsgrade on 02 May 2021, 13:38:52
this pack hunter seems to be missing ene special to be specific
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 May 2021, 14:02:20
ah. the Pack Hunter II (as opposed to the Pack Hunter 2 or Pack hunter II 2).

That one does not receive ENE because of the B-Pods, which are explosive. See also: the Malak C, Scarecrow F4r, and Hellbringer (Loki) D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: weaponsgrade on 02 May 2021, 14:07:18
copy.......  but then as a clan mech no case either?

 also seems excessive that the mech would be destroyed by an explosion that in regular battle tech would only cause 2 dam as per bpod crit rules
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: weaponsgrade on 02 May 2021, 14:21:44
i'll just use another variant it was just activating my o.c.d.ness
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 May 2021, 14:33:26
Thanks. And since no good deed shall go unpunished...
*snip*

Thank you, mostly fixed. From what I can tell the Bolla Stealth (RotS) has the correct tech level with Advanced due to its introductory year, and the Frogmen carry the M61A, not the M42B (though it still requires an introductory date adjustment.)

copy.......  but then as a clan mech no case either?

It should have CASE, yes. Fixed.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: weaponsgrade on 02 May 2021, 14:39:33
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 02 May 2021, 16:08:08
Thank you, mostly fixed. From what I can tell the Bolla Stealth (RotS) has the correct tech level with Advanced due to its introductory year, and the Frogmen carry the M61A, not the M42B (though it still requires an introductory date adjustment.)
Bolla: admittedly I had trusted the Errata pdf unchecked. Wouldn't  this mean instead that the RotS's primary configuration (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/413) should be "Advanced" as well?  (RAC/5, MML-3, MG, TAG)
Should I enter a report for the TRO3085 errata thread, or does this happen "internally"?

Frogmen: mea culpa, in my spreadsheet I had used the wrong autocompleted Federated Barrett weapon. Correct intro date is 3062.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 May 2021, 16:11:50
It might not be errata due to how we have to deal with tech levels - the unit takes on the lowest tech level of that era since there’s only one slot. Manual notes would be a mess both to enter and track
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 May 2021, 16:25:33
Vehicle Stealth Armor, which is what Bolla uses, becomes Advanced in 3084 per TRO Prototypes. All other tech in the unit are tournament legal.
EDIT The Bolla Prime doesn't seem to have anything that would make it Experimental. It certainly should be Advanced, i think.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 02 May 2021, 16:52:25
Exactly. Just the TRO3085 Errata 2.0 pdf seems to be wrong, stating
Quote
Bolla Stealth Tank (p. 34)
Technology Base should be "Inner Sphere (Experimental)".
(Right now, TRO3085 simply states "Technology Base: Inner Sphere" without qualifier).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 02 May 2021, 17:11:46
The Bolla has an intro date of 3074, before Vehicular Stealth became standad rules. Thus it has (Experimental).
Bolla Stealth Tank (ROTS) has an intro date of 3084, which Vehicular Stealth became standard, therefore it does not have (Experimental).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 02 May 2021, 17:48:31
Bolla (RotS) Prime is the issue:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/413/bolla-stealth-tank-rots-prime
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 May 2021, 17:51:08
Bolla (RotS) Prime is the issue:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/413/bolla-stealth-tank-rots-prime

Simply an oversight. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 02 May 2021, 18:09:14
Thanks!  :thumbsup:


My other point is that the Errata document right now states that the RotS Bolla had been changed from
"Technology Base: Inner Sphere" to
"Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)"
in the second printing.

Since we all agree that it is, in fact, "Advanced", the errata for the next printing should reflect that and read
Quote
Bolla Stealth Tank (p. 34)
Technology Base should be changed from "Inner Sphere (Experimental)" to "Inner Sphere (Advanced)".
to avoid to wrongly repeat it as "Experimental" in the next reprint of TRO3085.
That's why I asked if I should raise this point in the TRO3085 error thread or if this would be flagged via internal channels.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 02 May 2021, 20:48:29
Didn't there used to be the static emplacements from McCarron's Armored Cavalry on here?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 May 2021, 20:56:32
never left. they're classified under the unit type "Building"

http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/353/mccarrons-armored-cavalry
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 03 May 2021, 04:00:30
Should Wolf's Dragoons have the Ebon Jaguar/Cauldron-Born on their availability list, the main character in the Redemption Rift novel pilots one?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Luciora on 03 May 2021, 10:45:54
Kokou Defense Tank (XL) is available to the Magistry of Canopus during the Star League. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 May 2021, 13:07:06
i usually catch that when i do it. we add 'not available' to eras previous to the introduction. sometimes i hit 'm' instead of 'n' by accident and it jumps to the MoC. this is the first instance of those wily canopians's time travel division sneaking items back...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 03 May 2021, 16:45:35
some availability questions:

The Assault Triumph 3062 is listed as a DC and later CC design. While it's correct The DC produces the Triumph 3057 this is a WoB design produced on Terra. Additionally the cargo bay uses a 6 base system (6 mechs, 36 BA). shouldn't it be extinct or maybe RotS design like the 3082 version?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5297/assault-triumph-3062

The Aurora dropship is produced on skye in the LA later RotS and Delavan in the FS. Should it be available to the DC? Additionally by the Dark Age it is being produced by the Filtvelt Coalition (FM3145 page 189)

The Challenger X is a Vehicle that was probably widely sold by the Federated Commonwealth around the Clan Invasion era but should it continue to be available to the DC and TC all through the Dark Age after years of hostility between the FS and the DC (its in the Taurian RAT in FM 3085)?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/538/challenger-mbt-x








Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 03 May 2021, 17:03:08
Kirishima class cruiser remove from the FS list in the Jihad Era. The only Kirishima (Covenant) the FS had was destroyed during the civil war (ramming speed! IIRC)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4451/kirishima-cruiser-standard

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 03 May 2021, 17:16:19
some availability questions:

The Assault Triumph 3062 is listed as a DC and later CC design. While it's correct The DC produces the Triumph 3057 this is a WoB design produced on Terra. Additionally the cargo bay uses a 6 base system (6 mechs, 36 BA). shouldn't it be extinct or maybe RotS design like the 3082 version?

The CapCon is noted as producing it in FM:3145, the DC's examples are simply leftovers that had previously been purchased from the WoB. Relatedly, the RotS isn't a user of the design, instead favoring the Assault Triumph (3082).

Quote
The Aurora dropship is produced on skye in the LA later RotS and Delavan in the FS. Should it be available to the DC? Additionally by the Dark Age it is being produced by the Filtvelt Coalition (FM3145 page 189)

The DC availability is supported by Wars of the Republic Era, but Filtvelt does appear to be an omission. We'll look into this.

Quote
The Challenger X is a Vehicle that was probably widely sold by the Federated Commonwealth around the Clan Invasion era but should it continue to be available to the DC and TC all through the Dark Age after years of hostility between the FS and the DC (its in the Taurian RAT in FM 3085)?

Things in the BattleTech universe sometimes take a while to no longer become available, which would be the reason it's still around here. Things like salvage can help it stick around as well.

Kirishima class cruiser remove from the FS list in the Jihad Era. The only Kirishima (Covenant) the FS had was destroyed during the civil war (ramming speed! IIRC)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4451/kirishima-cruiser-standard

That's a bit of an issue, ain't it. Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 May 2021, 19:35:52
It occurred to me that every now and then someone wonders what availability in MUL means, or is confused by it, or something like that. Would it be possible to add explanation for that somewhere?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 03 May 2021, 21:40:29
Should Wolf's Dragoons have the Ebon Jaguar/Cauldron-Born on their availability list, the main character in the Redemption Rift novel pilots one?

One example doesn't really establish availability.  Once the Ebon Jag comes out in a Rec Guide we might know better for sure but until then it hasn't been produced in the better part of a hundred years and there's no consistent way for the Dragoons to have gotten more of them.  Its availability in the Dark Age timeframe is generously speaking "limited".
Title: Named Infantry Units in MUL
Post by: Spartan601 on 05 May 2021, 22:40:09
Hi all.

Long time lurker, very rare poster. I have had a question buzzing in the back of my mind regarding infantry that has been driving me nuts, and I finally decided to do something about it. I am fairly sure the answer is simple and obvious, but here goes.

There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?

Clan Foot Infantry Ad Hoc Point, 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy
Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment
Heavy Foot LRM Infantry Stalwart Support-Heavy LRM Infantry

As a follow up, is there any reason why there are a few named units that don't allow for analogous units?
Two examples I've found for this are:

Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon
SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia


Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: StingerTheRaven on 06 May 2021, 17:08:15

some Aerospace PV peer-review, calculated via home-made spreadsheet. Which is wrong; me, Alpha Strike Companion (i.e. I'm correct according to ASC v1.4, but that's out-of-date), or MUL?


Sparrowhawk SPR-H5 - TARGET: 20PV* (me and MUL are in agreement here) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2992/sparrowhawk-spr-h5 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2992/sparrowhawk-spr-h5)
Code: [Select]
DMG: 2+(1+1)+0 = 4
Thrust: (10/4)+1 = 3.5
ARM: (4*1.5) = 6
STR: 5 = 5
Thresh: 2 * (SZ1/2) = 1


Sum = 19.5, round to 20


Corsair CSR-V12b - TARGET: 30PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b)
Code: [Select]
DMG: 4+(4+4)+2=14
Thrust: 6/4 = 1.5
ARM: (7*1.5) = 10.5
STR: 3 = 3
Thresh: 3 * (SZ2/2) = 3


Sum = 32!


Shiva SHV-OB - TARGET: 39PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5054/shiva-shv-ob (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5054/shiva-shv-ob)
Code: [Select]
DMG: 4+(7+7)+7 = 25
Thrust: 5/4 = 1.25
ARM: (6*1.5) = 9
STR: 4 = 4
Thresh: 2 * (SZ3/2) = 3


Sum = 42.25, round to 42!


Stuka STU-K5b - TARGET: 44PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b)
Code: [Select]
DMG: 6+(6+6)+4 = 22
OV: 1 = 1
Thrust: 5/4 = 1.25
ARM: (9*1.5) = 13.5
STR: 5 = 5
Thresh: 3 * (SZ3/2) = 4.5


Sum = 47.25, round to 47!


remarks: I suspect there's been change in how thrust and/or threshold influence the calculation? Might have to experiment here.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 May 2021, 19:10:04
I think you're missing a couple errata in 1.4. These are both on p18 of the ASC Errata v1.4.

Threshold is not a separate add to PV any more.
"The Armor Factor of an aerospace unit equals its Alpha Strike Armor value. This is multiplied by (1.3 + (the unit’s Threshold *
0.1)); if the result is higher than 1.9, reduce it to 1.9. If the unit has the BAR special, divide the final result by 2."
So a Corsair with Armor of 7 and Threshold 3 has 7 * (1.3 + 0.3) for 7 * 1.6.  And then no +3 for Threshold.

Thrust adds 0.5 for Thrust 7-9 or 2 for Thrust 10.
so the Corsair would have 1.5 for Thrust, but the Sparrowhawk would have 10/4 +2 for Thrust 10, not 10/4 + 1. (but no +1 for threshold, thus the same final end result of 20 PV).

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: StingerTheRaven on 06 May 2021, 19:15:44
Ah, thank you! Something did seem off when I was reading the original PDF, guess I should read more thoroughly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 May 2021, 15:44:03
Wait, what's the Perseus doing on the Escorpión Imperio/Scorpion Empire availability list? Like, how?

EDIT Also, the Perseus W should probably be listed as extinct after the Jihad, because it uses a C3i computer. At least i got an impression that very few exceptions aside, the tech was very much extinct and banned. For comparison, the Avatar E is extinct after the Jihad because of this.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5699/perseus-p1w
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 May 2021, 15:50:13
Wait, what's the Perseus doing on the Escorpión Imperio/Scorpion Empire availability list? Like, how?

Waypoint 531, same as the rest of the Blakist equipment in SE ranks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 08 May 2021, 15:50:55
The Empire captured a major Word of Blake cache at one point that heavily influenced their touman for some time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 May 2021, 15:52:34
Oh, i missed/forgot that. Not sure which. Well then.
Title: Re: Named Infantry Units in MUL
Post by: Xotl on 08 May 2021, 16:02:19
Hi all.

Long time lurker, very rare poster. I have had a question buzzing in the back of my mind regarding infantry that has been driving me nuts, and I finally decided to do something about it. I am fairly sure the answer is simple and obvious, but here goes.

There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?

Clan Foot Infantry Ad Hoc Point, 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy
Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment
Heavy Foot LRM Infantry Stalwart Support-Heavy LRM Infantry

As a follow up, is there any reason why there are a few named units that don't allow for analogous units?
Two examples I've found for this are:

Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon
SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia


Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!

Quoting this because I moved it here.
Title: Re: Named Infantry Units in MUL
Post by: nckestrel on 08 May 2021, 16:41:39
There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?
Exactly.
The names are intended as specific examples of the general template.  We assigned the availability based on who could use that record sheet.  If Faction A has WXYZ Infantry, we asisnged it to Faction B if:
1. Faction B uses the same infantry organization. If it's a 28 troop infantry platoon, does Faction B use 28 troop infantry platoons?  If not, they can't have it.
2. Faction B has the individual equipment (usually armor) available, or a version with the same stats. The faction specific armor was the main issue here.  If Faction B doesn't have equipment available with the same (Total Warfare) stats, then Faction B can't have that unit.
I suppose there is a 3. Would Faction B use this infantry unit?  But I don't recall this being an issue with any of them.

Quote
Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon
The DEST Infiltration Suit is rather unique.

Quote
SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia
The Taurian infantry organization is rather unique.

Quote
Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!
You're welcome, thanks for asking.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 09 May 2021, 09:56:31
Here are a few more errata I found in my neverending rabbit hole of unit production research...

1. Katya GAC: The "(RL15)" variant should probably be the "(RL20)" variant according to HBHL (The standard model has RL15's, and the variants are the RL10 version, RL20 version, and fuel version):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4438/katya-ground-assault-craft-rl15

2. Shilone SL-18: Should be available to Taurians for Civil War, Jihad eras (and later?). Produced by Wingman Enterprises according to HBMPS as a joint venture with OWA (so I assume this is the correct variant as the OWA also has access to it).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2926/shilone-sl-18

3. Overlord A3 DropShip: Lyran Alliance should have it in Civil War, Jihad eras. Produced by Shipil-Skye according to HBHS.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4776/overlord-a3

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 May 2021, 10:19:23
*snip*

I'll bring the two other points up for discussion, but Shilone production was established to be the SL-17.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 09 May 2021, 12:38:27
I'll bring the two other points up for discussion, but Shilone production was established to be the SL-17.

Good to know. Sounds like trade deals weren't really Grover Shraplen's calling...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 10 May 2021, 16:06:48
1) AA Mechanized infantry Mechanized AA Infantry Point, 67th BattleMech Cluster, Iota Galaxy (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3) from TRO3085 seems to have gotten its Tonnage and BV values from the neighbouring Clan Heavy Jump Infantry Heavy Infantry Point, 91st Mechanized Assault, Epsilon Galaxy (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/609/). Original values are 20 tons and BV=99.


2) Conventional Infantry classification:

MUL classifies 117 infantry units as Type "Conventional Infantry" with Subtype "Conventional Infantry - Mechanized".
Among those 117 units are Tracked, Wheeled and Hover units (and one Submersible Mechanized unit).

However there are also three Subtypes "Conventional Infantry - Hover"), "Conventional Infantry - Tracked" and "Conventional Infantry - Wheeled",  containing 16(H), 15(T) and 16(W) Mechanized Infantry units of the respective movement type.

Is there a specific reason why most units are lumped together as "Mechanized" while some are grouped according to their movement type?


 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 May 2021, 16:21:44
1) definitely a mistake. interestingly it has the CAR20 special. fixed

2) this will require review to determine if there was reasoning or just a misclassification. EDIT: I think I see what's going on here but will have to run it past the rest of the team
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 May 2021, 09:45:44
Update: Conventional Infantry - Mechanized was a catchall category for mechinf from TW and TO. With the introduction of the TR3085 infantry, movement type was no longer immediately obvious based on the name. All mechanized infantry are now sorted into subtypes that match their movement modes (as this actually matters in the game)

Hover
Tracked
Wheeled
VTOL
SCUBA
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 May 2021, 11:40:28
Rawhide-R1 should be added to the mercenary list. From IlClan RG 15 page 4: "making the Rawhide popular with
budget-conscious users like mercenaries"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8189/rawhide-rwd-r1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 May 2021, 11:58:07
Rawhide-R1 should be added to the mercenary list. From IlClan RG 15 page 4: "making the Rawhide popular with
budget-conscious users like mercenaries"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8189/rawhide-rwd-r1

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 11 May 2021, 12:38:35
@Sartris: Thanks, that saves some guessing which category to search and makes it easier to select* from a specific movement mode.
 
Since I'm going over all 372 conventional infantry units for a little side project atm, could you confirm my following deductions?

In general, infantry units are available for everyone regardless of designation. Exceptions:


Questions:



Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 May 2021, 12:41:53
Maybe my eyesight is getting bad but it seems to me the TDR-7S Thunderbolt is MIA

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/473

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Thunderbolt
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 May 2021, 13:18:17
we missed the "is visible" flag on that one. it's no longer hiding
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 May 2021, 13:55:21
snip

1. The only two truly restricted conditions are Extinct and Does not yet exist (and even then this is just baseline. Do what you want at home). It's not hard to shuffle bodies around, but most factions do not do this in sufficient quantities to register. It's not that the CCAF can't use C* organization. Remember that availability means "Multiple examples in multiple formations" - no availability doesn't necessarily mean none.  If you want your forces to appear representative, it would be strange to see a C* Level I in a non-C* force and I would guess most people would demand some kind of explanation. But that's room to tell a story.

2. There was a desire to give factions like the Marians access to interesting units. There are no canon references to those platoon types coming in hegemony-specific organization so they go in as-is. it's either that or give them nothing. *You* can infer they take the step to use their own organization - and we encourage people to do so. We can't do that.

3. It is indeed difficult to field a unit for a faction before that faction or the equipment exists

4. Sort of goes back to #1. That's when those factions started fielding them in numbers. That's not to say some platoon sergeant didn't hand out some heavier armor or weapons before the date on the tin (assuming the equipment existed)

5. That's the general idea. If that exact kit or statistically equivalent replacements are available, they can be spread more widely

6. Depends. The Heavy Riot Infantry from Handbook: House Kurita uses a specific shotgun with a stun stick-type component (even though it only affects AToW-level play). We could find no evidence that gun is produced or exported anywhere else so it was restricted to DC and FRR units

7. Highly likely, but not necessarily a binding condition   
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 11 May 2021, 14:56:04
Thanks for the long answer. Lots of info to work with. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wesdyer on 11 May 2021, 18:20:59
I noticed that the MUL is missing the infantry squad units from the two published combat manuals (Kurita pg 76 and Mercenary pg 82).

Infantry Foot Squads
Flamer
MG
Rifle
Laser
SRM
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 11 May 2021, 22:11:12
2. Shilone SL-18: Should be available to Taurians for Civil War, Jihad eras (and later?). Produced by Wingman Enterprises according to HBMPS as a joint venture with OWA (so I assume this is the correct variant as the OWA also has access to it).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2926/shilone-sl-18
I'll bring the two other points up for discussion, but Shilone production was established to be the SL-17.

Hey, sorry to bring this one up again but I screwed up and the variant in question should have been the SL-17R Shilone (not the SL-18), so I wanted to check to see if it was that one or the (Intro-tech) SL-17 that's the correct Taurian variant internally.

I bring it up again because something seems inconsistent in the MUL. Here are all the details I can figure out.
1. HBMPS (p. 119) describes Wingman Ent (Taurians) as a joint venture between TC and OWA. It produces both the Shilone and Slayer fighters (no variants mentioned).
2. The MUL highest-tech availabilities for CW and Jihad eras are as follows:
--OWA: Shilone SL-17R and Slayer SL-15R (both standard tech)
--TC: Shilone SL-17 and Slayer SL-15R (intro tech/standard tech)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2923/shilone-sl-17
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2925/shilone-sl-17r
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2965/slayer-sl-15r

3. I would have thought one of the following two cases would be correct, though, rather than a hybrid of the two:
a. Taurians get short end of the deal (only have SL-17 and SL-15 available)
b. Taurians get a fair deal after all (have SL-17R and SL-15R available)

Apologies if the hybrid version is correct. Just want to make sure I didn't let one slip through the cracks.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 13 May 2021, 22:50:05
The thunderbolt 7S still has no card or PV listed for it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 13 May 2021, 23:31:51
The thunderbolt 7S still has no card or PV listed for it.

Huh, strange. Dunno what happened there. Fixed!

3. I would have thought one of the following two cases would be correct, though, rather than a hybrid of the two:
a. Taurians get short end of the deal (only have SL-17 and SL-15 available)
b. Taurians get a fair deal after all (have SL-17R and SL-15R available)

Point 3a is correct. Wingman began production of the lower-tech variants.
Any SL-15R's in the Taurian fleet are likely the result of the refit kits the Combine was selling.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wesdyer on 14 May 2021, 13:01:07
Any thoughts on the missing squads from the Combat Manuals?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 May 2021, 15:17:40
Any thoughts on the missing squads from the Combat Manuals?

no thoughts. just vibes.

it's been tossed into the hopper
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wesdyer on 14 May 2021, 15:45:45
Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 14 May 2021, 16:42:52
Functionality Update:

You can now select multiple roles when performing unit filtering.  This should greatly aid in making Formations (e.g. selecting all Striker and Skirmisher units when looking to make a Striker lance).  Thanks as always to Skyhigh for the work.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 15 May 2021, 02:54:44
Clan Mongoose - Early Succession Wars era missing the Wolverine II mech as per HistOK design was heavily associated with the Clan.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 May 2021, 07:40:56
The wolverine ii has no availability entered at all for that era (or several others). It will be taken care of at a later date
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 May 2021, 10:06:13
Clan Mongoose - Early Succession Wars era missing the Wolverine II mech as per HistOK design was heavily associated with the Clan.

Also, since I'm working on this at the moment, what's the page reference for Clan Mongoose heavily using it? I only see a passage referring to Clan Wolverine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 15 May 2021, 10:33:17
Also, since I'm working on this at the moment, what's the page reference for Clan Mongoose heavily using it? I only see a passage referring to Clan Wolverine.

Weirdly not sure why I put Mongoose, was actually looking at the Wolverines page, put it down to an early start and lack of caffine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 May 2021, 08:18:48
For the opening of our final push to complete early Clan availabilities, we have added a new faction: Star League in Exile. This represents what the SLDF took with them on Operation EXODUS. It is also meant to cover equipment used by the Pentagon Powers through the end of Operation KLONDIKE in 2822.

After 2822, all units on the SL in Exile list either are considered extinct in the homeworlds or are transferred to a Clan or Clans. In this context extinct is defined as wiped out in the fighting during KLONDIKE, decommissioned, or placed in Brian Caches wholesale.

Note that this update does not include Early Succession Wars data for Jumpships, Dropships, or Warships. We still have a not insignificant amount of research to do on that front.

Per the usual, please report any discrepancies. Just last night I caught a reference I had previously missed in the Commando IIC fluff so this may go through some growing pains (especially big aerospace)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 18 May 2021, 10:20:38
Question:  CTF-5L and TDR-12R

These two mechs are produced on Tikonov according to the Rec Guides, and have intro dates only 5 years apart.  They use a lot of the same technology (Reflective armor, Small VSPL) and one would assume they are available to the same factions, and for the most part, they are.

The CTF-5L was introduced in 3132, and is available to the CC, RotS, and Mercs.
The TDR-12R was introduced in 3127, and is available to the CC, RotS, and.....FS?

Maybe there is some in universe lore that makes sense of this, but I'm wondering if this is an oversight.  One would think that the Thunderbolt might be available to Mercs and the FS listing is in error.

Can anyone chime in on this?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 May 2021, 11:00:11
The Thud's FedSuns listing is not in error. The FedSuns controlled Tikonov between 3135 (at least) and 3145, so having some of its output make it into the AFFS is reasonable. On the flip side, it's possible that the FedSuns were not interested in increasing their fleet of Cataphracts, instead selling them to mercenaries in their employ.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 18 May 2021, 11:16:21
The Thud's FedSuns listing is not in error. The FedSuns controlled Tikonov between 3135 (at least) and 3145, so having some of its output make it into the AFFS is reasonable. On the flip side, it's possible that the FedSuns were not interested in increasing their fleet of Cataphracts, instead selling them to mercenaries in their employ.

Perfectly reasonable answer.  Thanks for the clarification!  I was also thinking that putting the new Thud on the Mercs list would help the 12R proliferate through the Inner Sphere by way of mercenaries and their travels, but that answer above works great.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CungrVanck on 21 May 2021, 10:26:03
Good morning! 

On the Total Warfare Force Builder, I believe the "Piloting" and "Gunnery" column headings are reversed.

Example: A Crusader CRD-3K shows a 3 gunnery/4 piloting MechWarrior as costing 1703 points on the page for the variant.  But, when going to the Total Warfare Force Builder where you put in a 3/4 level pilot for the same unit, it says the cost of the unit is 1548.  That corresponds to a 4 gunnery/3 piloting skill level cost as stated on the variant page.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 22 May 2021, 05:45:31
No-Dachi NDA-1K is original prodiction model. "Field refit adding a C3 Slave" is a NDA-2KC. Also 1K lacks of BV and cost values, and AS card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 22 May 2021, 09:52:53
No-Dachi NDA-1K is original prodiction model. "Field refit adding a C3 Slave" is a NDA-2KC. Also 1K lacks of BV and cost values, and AS card.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 22 May 2021, 13:40:19
Also, please, pay you attention to TBT-3C entry. Is it true that this (extinct until 3076) model is available to FWL starting from Clan Invasion?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 22 May 2021, 14:22:31
Also, please, pay you attention to TBT-3C entry. Is it true that this (extinct until 3076) model is available to FWL starting from Clan Invasion?

Thank you, corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 23 May 2021, 11:45:18
Alacorn Heavy Tank Mk. V  - introduced in 2571, but it is "just a Mk. III mounting now-perfected Ferro-Fibrous armor" (C) XTR Primitives III, and Mk. III was introduced in 2587. Probably dates must be swapped.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 May 2021, 16:44:34
Alacorn Heavy Tank Mk. V  - introduced in 2571, but it is "just a Mk. III mounting now-perfected Ferro-Fibrous armor" (C) XTR Primitives III, and Mk. III was introduced in 2587. Probably dates must be swapped.

The Mark III is certainly in error (2587 is the date cited for the Mark VI). The dates for IV and V will require some discussion
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 23 May 2021, 17:15:18
Minor spelling issue: Jump Laser Infantry Princeps III 103rd Jump Battalion (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1717) should be changed to "Principes", according to TRO3085Suppl. p. 8f.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 May 2021, 19:49:21
ah, latin. princeps is the singular. principes is the plural. fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: SantiagoReturn on 23 May 2021, 23:15:03
1. When using the Total Warfare Builder, if I add Elementals, I don't have the option to change it to a 5 man squad.

2. It seems like it might have been on purpose but no matter what unit is in the builder you cannot make either their piloting or gunnery 8. I know it'll barely be used but I figure if it's on the chart, it's probably allowed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 May 2021, 12:42:29
Alacorn Heavy Tank Mk. V  - introduced in 2571, but it is "just a Mk. III mounting now-perfected Ferro-Fibrous armor" (C) XTR Primitives III, and Mk. III was introduced in 2587. Probably dates must be swapped.

This went a bit differently than I expected (and was based on something decided a while back) - the 2587 date for the Mark III is indeed correct. the Mark VI was pushed back from the original cited date of 2587 to 2590 to accommodate the intro date of the gauss rifle. The Mark V now slots in at 2589.

The availabilities are also being adjusted for the Star League era.
Mk III/IV - reduced to Star League Regular only. They were limited runs of a few hundred machines. the Mk III, IV, and V were originally given the Mk VI's broad distribution (mostly likely due to copy/paste). The Mk V will also be Star League Regular only - it was a *very* limited proof of concept run to demonstrate that the faulty FF armor of the older models had been fixed.

1. When using the Total Warfare Builder, if I add Elementals, I don't have the option to change it to a 5 man squad.

2. It seems like it might have been on purpose but no matter what unit is in the builder you cannot make either their piloting or gunnery 8. I know it'll barely be used but I figure if it's on the chart, it's probably allowed.

FYI this has been passed up the chain
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 24 May 2021, 12:58:14
The Piloting/Gunnery Skill part has been fixed.  The squad size for battle armour issue is still a work in progress.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: SilverSword on 25 May 2021, 20:26:17
I just noticed that the carry weight stat (CAR) for all battle armors that do not weight 2000kg are incorrect on the MUL:

All battle armor squads are listed as a CAR equal to the squad size regardless of the actual weight of the trooper. Below I have what they should be based on squads of 4/5/6. Obviously they would need to be rounded up to the nearest half ton, but here is what I have with example BA classes:

Weight - 4/5/6 squad size
0.2 (Clan Interface) - .8/1/1.2
0.4 (Resgate) - 1.6/2/2.4
0.5 (Tornado) - 2/2.5/3
0.8 (Kage) - 3.2/4/4.8
1.5 (Sloth) - 6/7.5/9
2.0 (Kanazuchi) - 8/10/12
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 May 2021, 20:33:31
They just use regular carrying units rules, not the advanced rules for carried carry weight.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: SilverSword on 25 May 2021, 21:49:00
Alpha Strike: Commanders Edition (pg 77)

Quote
Cargo (CAR): An infantry unit with the Cargo special ability can be carried by a unit with the infantry transport space (noted by the IT# special ability). For these units, the number in the ability notation indicates the amount of cargo space it needs to be transported. For example, a squad POINT of Elemental battle armor has a CAR5 special ability, and so would need a unit with IT5 (or higher) to transport it.
(my edit to note that it should read point not squad)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 May 2021, 22:28:55
I just noticed that the carry weight stat (CAR) for all battle armors that do not weight 2000kg are incorrect on the MUL:

All battle armor squads are listed as a CAR equal to the squad size regardless of the actual weight of the trooper. Below I have what they should be based on squads of 4/5/6. Obviously they would need to be rounded up to the nearest half ton, but here is what I have with example BA classes:

Weight - 4/5/6 squad size
0.2 (Clan Interface) - .8/1/1.2
0.4 (Resgate) - 1.6/2/2.4
0.5 (Tornado) - 2/2.5/3
0.8 (Kage) - 3.2/4/4.8
1.5 (Sloth) - 6/7.5/9
2.0 (Kanazuchi) - 8/10/12

per standard rules, all BA suits weigh one ton for purposes of transportation, thus all BA Squad cards should read CAR4 / CAR5 / CAR 6. using actual BA weight for transport is an optional rule found in TO:AR pg 154-155
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: SilverSword on 25 May 2021, 22:38:01
per standard rules, all BA suits weigh one ton for purposes of transportation, thus all BA Squad cards should read CAR4 / CAR5 / CAR 6. using actual BA weight for transport is an optional rule found in TO:AR pg 154-155

seyla
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 26 May 2021, 02:44:02
The Ostsol 8E3 is shown with the Ostscout's alphanumeric code.
Suggested solution
Change from OST-8E3 to OTL-8E3
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 26 May 2021, 13:01:22
The Ostsol 8E3 is shown with the Ostscout's alphanumeric code.
Suggested solution
Change from OST-8E3 to OTL-8E3

Corrected...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 26 May 2021, 13:22:08
I am unsure whether this is an Erratum for the MUL or somewhere else.

As far as I can tell from the Record Sheets, the Men Shen MS1-O (Li) is identical to the basic Men Shen MS1-O.  However, the Alpha Strike cards for the two 'Mechs are different.  The Li has an L Damage of 2, compared to the 1 of the basic version.

Something's wrong somewhere, but I can't tell what it is.
Or possibly, I've missed something.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 26 May 2021, 13:54:09
I am unsure whether this is an Erratum for the MUL or somewhere else.

As far as I can tell from the Record Sheets, the Men Shen MS1-O (Li) is identical to the basic Men Shen MS1-O.  However, the Alpha Strike cards for the two 'Mechs are different.  The Li has an L Damage of 2, compared to the 1 of the basic version.

Something's wrong somewhere, but I can't tell what it is.
Or possibly, I've missed something.

They should match. I updated the (Li) variant to have a L damage of 2 and a PV of 55. I'm guessing the original calculation did not account for the fact the LRM 15 is considered to have insufficient ammo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wesdyer on 26 May 2021, 18:03:11
Noticed an error with the Mad Dog S.

It has the ability "RNC" instead of "RCN".


Xotl: fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sam08 on 27 May 2021, 07:49:07
The following units are missing from the MUL: Tokugawa Heavy Tank (Arrow IV) from FM Draconis Combine p. 96 (... the Steel Rain battalion to its TO&E just as the armored forces received two full lances of Tokugawa heavy tanks modified to carry Arrow IV missile systems.) and LTV-2 Hover Tank from XTPO Primitives vol. 2 p. 11 (The HAF didn’t bite, however; the LTV-2 hovertank, while fast, utilized armor that was easily penetrated by most modern weapons, making the vehicle very fragile indeed.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 27 May 2021, 07:52:43
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/498/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-x

I suspect someone's fingers slipped, or otherwise the Cauldron Born X is a time traveler. Intro date should be around the Jihad, i think, not 2832.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 27 May 2021, 08:00:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/498/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-x

I suspect someone's fingers slipped, or otherwise the Cauldron Born X is a time traveler. Intro date should be around the Jihad, i think, not 2832.

Thought I fixed that one. On my list

The following units are missing from the MUL: Tokugawa Heavy Tank (Arrow IV) from FM Draconis Combine p. 96 (... the Steel Rain battalion to its TO&E just as the armored forces received two full lances of Tokugawa heavy tanks modified to carry Arrow IV missile systems.) and LTV-2 Hover Tank from XTPO Primitives vol. 2 p. 11 (The HAF didn’t bite, however; the LTV-2 hovertank, while fast, utilized armor that was easily penetrated by most modern weapons, making the vehicle very fragile indeed.)

Entering all the mentioned units is like trying to get to zero though division. I’ll look into these later this afternoon

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 27 May 2021, 10:18:05
Could it be that the LCT-7S has no one who uses it in Dark Age?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 27 May 2021, 10:22:28
missed that one. fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 27 May 2021, 17:26:22
The following units are missing from the MUL: Tokugawa Heavy Tank (Arrow IV) from FM Draconis Combine p. 96 (... the Steel Rain battalion to its TO&E just as the armored forces received two full lances of Tokugawa heavy tanks modified to carry Arrow IV missile systems.) and LTV-2 Hover Tank from XTPO Primitives vol. 2 p. 11 (The HAF didn’t bite, however; the LTV-2 hovertank, while fast, utilized armor that was easily penetrated by most modern weapons, making the vehicle very fragile indeed.)

these have been added
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mwenski on 27 May 2021, 20:28:01
I think this request goes away if the MUL has a save feature so I can share my list with my friends.

Can we explore the format of the export in the search section? I like to copy the data from the MUL so I can make a spreadsheet that lets people save and adjust their units and maintain MUL availability.   

For instance, the Infantry on the following link appears in a hard to consume format:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=rec&FactionAuto=&Factions=20&Factions=56&Eras=9&Eras=10&Eras=11&Eras=255&Eras=256&AvailableEras=10&AvailableEras=11&AvailableEras=255&AvailableEras=256&AvailableEras=13%22 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=rec&FactionAuto=&Factions=20&Factions=56&Eras=9&Eras=10&Eras=11&Eras=255&Eras=256&AvailableEras=10&AvailableEras=11&AvailableEras=255&AvailableEras=256&AvailableEras=13%22)

This name, for instance (there are more examples below)
Clan Heavy Foot Infantry Ebon Keshik Squad

Has the format of:
Faction | Unit Name | Classification | notable unit
Clan | Heavy Foot | Infantry | Ebon Keshik Squad

Within the same column:

Unit Name | Classification | Special Variant | Variant Weapon
Elemental | Battle Armor | (Space) | [Flamer]

Faction | Unit Name | Classification | something else? | notable unit
Clan | Foot | Infantry | Ad Hoc Point, | 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy


Code: [Select]
Clan Heavy Foot Infantry Ebon Keshik Squad
Elemental Battle Armor <Base>
Elemental Battle Armor (Space) <Base>
Elemental Battle Armor (Space) [Flamer]
Elemental Battle Armor (Space) [MG]
Elemental Battle Armor [Flamer]
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser]
Elemental Battle Armor [MG]
Clan Space Marine Clan Snow Raven Space Marines
Clan Foot Infantry Ad Hoc Point, 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 28 May 2021, 08:12:38
Here are a few where they availabilities might be more judgement calls from Team MUL than errata (except for the first one, which is likely errata). I came across them when comparing my own notes/RATs with Xolt's latest RAT updates.

1. Locust LCT-1E -- should probably be available to SIC as well in LSW-R, Clan Inv, and Civil War   (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1897/locust-lct-1e)

2. Hermes HER-1A and HER-1B -- listed as FWL only, but fluff in TRO3039 for HER-1A seems to suggest that HER-1S variant were sold off to Successor States as SLDF surplus and downgraded to HER-1A/1B over time. So, could arguably be IS-General and maybe Mercs for ESW through Clan Invasion eras.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1485/hermes-her-1a
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1486/hermes-her-1b

3. Panther PNT-9R -- If you combine the lists/RATs from Combat Ops/Field Manuals with the fluff in TRO 3039, you get that the FWL--not the CC + SIC--should have this one available in LSWs, Clan Invasion, and Civil War eras. All other availabilities look legit. (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2425/panther-pnt-9r)

4. Sentinel STN-3K -- DC has this along with Lyrans prior to War of 3039, but only fluff I could find suggests that FWL and Fed Suns were only Successor States besides SLDF that originally acquired it--presumably the STN-3L version, which was downgraded over time. Lyrans produce the 3K intermittently through 3014. So FWL and FS should likely either it get added or replace DC on availability through Clan Invasion era (though DC should have them through Comstar for LSW-R and Clan Invasion)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2857/sentinel-stn-3k

5. Gladiator GLD-3R and GLD-4R -- listed as Mercs only, but fluff in TRO3075 says both variants can still be found found "in the hands of planetary militias and low-tier mercenary commands," so maybe they should be available in IS-General, too? (I mean, it's a pretty decent 'Mech... and people seem to like it)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1200/gladiator-gld-3r
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1201/gladiator-gld-4r

6. Striker STR-2C -- only available to Lyrans and CC in most eras, but TR3058 fluff suggests potentially more widespread availability (depending on how you interpret the last part of the sentence): "Several other Strikers can be found among the armed forces of House, pirate, and mercenary alike, but never in any significant concentration."
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3094/striker-stc-2c

7. Crockett CRK-5003-0 -- listed as extinct by 3020, but maybe this is too soon? TRO3025R implies that Blankenburg Tech (on Soul?) continues to produce them through 3SW, but fluff for Katana and CRK-5003-1 in TR3050U seems to suggest that Blankenburg was only producing refit/spare parts, which is why Kurita renamed the CRK-5003-2 "Katana" to avoid suspicion. Maybe resolution is to have CRK-5003-0 available to DC (and FRR) prior to 3039 as older downgraded 'Mechs, with "reopening" of Blankenburg producing Katana from 3035?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/724/crockett-crk-5003-0




 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 29 May 2021, 15:00:06
I'm on the MUL right now, and no images of the units are appearing.  Anyone else seeing this?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 29 May 2021, 15:14:43
I'm on the MUL right now, and no images of the units are appearing.  Anyone else seeing this?

We're looking into it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 31 May 2021, 14:05:36
As usual, thank you for your patience regarding large posts like these.

1. Locust LCT-1E

Accidental omission. Has been added.

Quote
2. Hermes HER-1A and HER-1B

Availabilities expanded to follow the HER-1S's proliferation.


Quote
3. Panther PNT-9R

We take Combat Operations and RATs into account when working on the MUL, but don't feel restricted by them. In this case,  as there's no additional data supporting usage, we've chosen not to make the PNT-9R available to the FWL. On the flip side, we chose to keep (and slightly expand, even) CC availability due to the high number of Panthers noted as being used by them during the ESW/LSW eras in the House Liao: The Capellan Confederation sourcebook.

Quote
4. Sentinel STN-3K

Availability has been expanded.

Quote
5. Gladiator GLD-3R and GLD-4R

In this case, the word "handful" suggests that concentrations were not high enough in any one Successor State to warrant MUL inclusion. No change.

Quote
6. Striker STR-2C

Same as above. The word "several", combined with specific text about a lack of concentration of the design outside of the CC and LC means that we've chosen to not change extant availabilities.

Quote
7. Crockett CRK-5003-0

In this case, the old 3025R fluff was soft retcon'd with the release of 3050u. That said, the two Crockett/Katana entries in 3050u paint a picture that suggests that ComStar supplied the Combine with 5003-0 Crocketts. We've consequently slightly adjusted availabilities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 31 May 2021, 14:50:30
I'm on the MUL right now, and no images of the units are appearing.  Anyone else seeing this?

We're looking into it.

It’s been looked into and it’s not a simple fix. Stay tuned
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 31 May 2021, 17:56:37
As usual, thank you for your patience regarding large posts like these.

Honestly, I can barely keep up with Team MUL's updating. Thanks for the explanations and all the great work!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 01 June 2021, 03:58:21
Should the Talon TLN-5VNO from the WWE-17 pdf be on the MUL?

Likewise Tassa Kay's unique Ryoken II is not in the list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 June 2021, 11:19:58
Should the Talon TLN-5VNO from the WWE-17 pdf be on the MUL?

Likewise Tassa Kay's unique Ryoken II is not in the list.

The Ryoken II has been added; the Talon, however, does not meet the requirements for being a canon variant of the 'Mech according to the post here:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/scorched-earth-battletech-wwe-2017-download-now!/msg1371862/#msg1371862
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 02 June 2021, 02:29:00
Both variants of the Shandra Advanced Scout Vehicle -

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6654/shandra-advanced-scout-vehicle-standard
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6699/shandra-advanced-scout-vehicle-original

Don't have Alpha Strike cards showing. They're both in RS:3145 Unabridged (p 338 & 339 respectively), so there are canon stats for the AS conversion.

Was this missed, or just a table glitch?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 June 2021, 06:42:47
Definitely missed. Their card data blocks are blank

Non-mechs have to be done by hand so ETA will depend on when someone who has a minute can punch it in
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 05 June 2021, 13:43:53
Should the Kell Hounds have access to the Puma/Adder in the Dark Age? They seem to have all the other WiE produced mechs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mindw on 06 June 2021, 01:47:59
Hi,
The roles of SHD-5R and SHD-5S may have been switched (at least compared to RG12). Assuming that is the case, should:
* SHD-5R role be changed to "Missile Boat" http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7787/shadow-hawk-shd-5r
* SHD-5S role be changed to "Scout" http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7786/shadow-hawk-shd-5s
?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 June 2021, 09:07:40
Hi,
The roles of SHD-5R and SHD-5S may have been switched (at least compared to RG12). Assuming that is the case, should:
* SHD-5R role be changed to "Missile Boat" http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7787/shadow-hawk-shd-5r
* SHD-5S role be changed to "Scout" http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7786/shadow-hawk-shd-5s
?

quite so. fixed

Non-mechs have to be done by hand so ETA will depend on when someone who has a minute can punch it in

these have been entered
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 June 2021, 15:17:47
Images on the MUL should be functional once more. Thank you all for your patience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 08 June 2021, 15:33:39
Images on the MUL should be functional once more. Thank you all for your patience.

I do indeed see them. Thanks for getting it worked out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2021, 16:00:02
skyhigh is not only a scholar and a gentleman, but a wizard as well
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 08 June 2021, 16:28:55
not sure if its always  been this way or not but when i look at the generic non-faction specific infantry groupings; i.e. Foot Platoon, Clan Jump Point, there are no pictures.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2021, 16:32:29
They have never had pictures so it’s not your imagination
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Atlas3060 on 09 June 2021, 10:03:07
Posting this here on recommendation from my original thread https://bg.battletech.com/forums/website-and-forum-support/mul-site-issue-adding-units-to-list/

I had an error on adding units to a list.
I try adding the Oro Heavy Tank (Standard) to a list twice but it only registers as once when I leave the build page to view other cards.

Steps to replicate this situation:
First I added the Night Wolf (standard) from its page via the plus button to the right.
Then I went to the Oro Heavy Tank (Standard) page and clicked twice.
I then went to the build page (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Force/Build) saw the tank there for just one, I found it in the search bar to the left and added it.
I now have two.
I then go look for other cards such as the Thor A, add it, but when I go back to the build page the Oro is only showing up for one again.

I don't know if this is a standard bug or something just for vee and Mechs mixing, but I did want to highlight that this is happening.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 June 2021, 10:22:18
Which browser are you using? I can't seem to reproduce the error
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Atlas3060 on 09 June 2021, 11:12:38
Which browser are you using? I can't seem to reproduce the error
Version 91.0.4472.77 (Official Build) (64-bit)
Google Chrome
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 09 June 2021, 11:15:33
Last night I threw a similar error but with the 32-bit version of Goggle Chrome
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 June 2021, 11:21:27
Version 91.0.4472.77 (Official Build) (64-bit)
Google Chrome

Huh. I’d have to check to see which version of chrome I’m using but I’m guessing it’s similar. Any fancy extensions? I run ublock and ghostery so those aren’t messing with it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Atlas3060 on 09 June 2021, 11:30:44
Huh. I’d have to check to see which version of chrome I’m using but I’m guessing it’s similar. Any fancy extensions? I run ublock and ghostery so those aren’t messing with it
Adobe and Adblock but the latter isn't even on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 June 2021, 11:58:49
ok I redid the steps and got it to mess up (yay?).

Someone will post back here when a solution is worked out
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 12 June 2021, 14:23:34
I know the Thor II E along side the Shadow Cat IIIs have been canonized via inclusion to the MUL (along side the Shadow Cat III being in the rec guides) and I guess the Thunderbolt IIC 2 also. These were IWM special sculpts first. Is there any thought to making the Vixen 6 and Pendragon 3R official via inclusion on the MUL
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mindw on 13 June 2021, 03:21:13
Hi,

The Devil "Rules Level" entry is set to --- - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7571/devil-standard .
Since the record sheet states it is Standard RG08 p.25 this my be a simple typo?

Tx!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 13 June 2021, 05:17:53
The Ravager BA is currently available to the Marians and the Taurians but according
to TRO3085 supplemental it should be widely available : "the Ravager has quickly become one of the most popular battle armor suits among mercenaries and smaller states, especially independent states in the former Free Worlds League"
It's also listed in FM3145 in the periphery general RAT

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2661/ravager-assault-battle-armor-standard
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 13 June 2021, 14:34:25
I know the Thor II E along side the Shadow Cat IIIs have been canonized via inclusion to the MUL (along side the Shadow Cat III being in the rec guides) and I guess the Thunderbolt IIC 2 also. These were IWM special sculpts first. Is there any thought to making the Vixen 6 and Pendragon 3R official via inclusion on the MUL

I'll look into getting these up even if RS:3150 aren't out as we do have "official" sheets for them.

Hi,

The Devil "Rules Level" entry is set to --- - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7571/devil-standard .
Since the record sheet states it is Standard RG08 p.25 this my be a simple typo?

Tx!

Thank you, fixed.

The Ravager BA is currently available to the Marians and the Taurians but according
to TRO3085 supplemental it should be widely available : "the Ravager has quickly become one of the most popular battle armor suits among mercenaries and smaller states, especially independent states in the former Free Worlds League"
It's also listed in FM3145 in the periphery general RAT

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2661/ravager-assault-battle-armor-standard

Thank you, we'll look into this.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 13 June 2021, 17:18:38
Banshee 12S from the new rec guide doesn’t have factional availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 13 June 2021, 17:22:35
Panther 14R from the newest Rec Guide doesn’t have any armor pips visible on its alpha strike card. This is possibly affecting its point value


Xotl: Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 June 2021, 18:29:34
It should be noted that all AS values including PV are entered by hand
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 14 June 2021, 10:01:28
CRD-8R from Rec Guide 17 doesn't appear to be on the MUL yet. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 June 2021, 10:28:11
forgot that pesky "Publicly Viewable" checkbox
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 14 June 2021, 11:01:16
forgot that pesky "Publicly Viewable" checkbox

I was wondering "where is the CRUD that will be available on the I.S. General list" since that has been the pattern for many of the Nuseen thus far.  I'm glad it was the 8R. 

Cheers and Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 15 June 2021, 14:10:59
Made errata report on the Atlas C, if it is correct, then the Atlas C needs its BV adjusted to 2232 (per SSW, recommend double-checking that).
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3750/atlas-c
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/battle-of-tukayyid-supplemental/msg1734242/#msg1734242

Second concerns the RS sources for Atlas C and Victor C.
Their source is BoT supplemental, not Battle of Tukayyid itself.
But MUL lists it on BoT page, and has no separate page for BoT Supplemental.
http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/444/battle-of-tukayyid
Unless this is all just temporary until/if those get Recognition Guide appearances?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 June 2021, 14:49:32
Made errata report on the Atlas C, if it is correct, then the Atlas C needs its BV adjusted to 2232 (per SSW, recommend double-checking that).

MML gives the current BV. Someone will have to do it by hand to confirm a change is necessary (ie not me. I'm allergic to math).

Quote
Second concerns the RS sources for Atlas C and Victor C.
Their source is BoT supplemental, not Battle of Tukayyid itself.
But MUL lists it on BoT page, and has no separate page for BoT Supplemental.
http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/444/battle-of-tukayyid
Unless this is all just temporary until/if those get Recognition Guide appearances?

At the time I just probably didn't make a separate supplemental source.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 June 2021, 14:54:26
To add onto this, the Atlas C's loadout was recently somewhat errata'd here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3050-upgrade-unabridged/msg1670146/#msg1670146

It's possible that MML has not yet implemented one or more of these changes.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 15 June 2021, 14:57:02
MML gives the current BV. Someone will have to do it by hand to confirm a change is necessary (ie not me. I'm allergic to math).
For what's it worth, i'm getting 2232 in MML as well, again no Clan CASE. Older version but still.

To add onto this, the Atlas C's loadout was recently somewhat errata'd here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3050-upgrade-unabridged/msg1670146/#msg1670146

It's possible that MML has not yet implemented one or more of these changes.

Oh, it does actually have CASE?
I made a report to BoT supplemental errata thread assuming CASE is not intended.
If it is, then MUL is correct, though the AS card needs to be updated.
And if this is correct, i need to retract my errata report.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 June 2021, 15:03:05
We'll take a look at this and get it sorted out
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hammer on 15 June 2021, 16:49:21
It's possible that MML has not yet implemented one or more of these changes.

MML has the changes per the BOT Record Sheets.

Atlas C - 2340

Code: [Select]
Battle Value Calculations For Atlas C
 Defensive Battle Rating Calculation:
Total Armor HD (9) x 1.0      9.0
Total Armor CT (61) x 1.0     61.0
Total Armor RT (42) x 1.0     42.0
Total Armor LT (42) x 1.0      42.0
Total Armor RA (34) x 1.0     34.0
Total Armor LA (34) x 1.0      34.0
Total Armor RL (41) x 1.0      41.0
Total Armor LL (41) x 1.0       41.0
Total modified armor BV x 2.5 = 760.0
Total I.S. Points x IS Multiplier x 1.5 x Engine Multiplier
152 x 1.0 x 1.5 x 1.0 = 228.0

Weight x Gyro Multiplier
100.0 x 0.5 = 50.0
Defensive Equipment:
Total BV of all Defensive Equipment = 0.0
Explosive Weapons/Equipment Penalty = -0.0
-------------
1038.0

Run MP 5
Target Movement Modifier For Run 2
Target Movement Modifier For Jumping 0
Target Movement Modifier For UMUs 0
Target Movement Modifier 2.0
Multiply by Defensive Movement Factor of 1.2 x 1.2
-------------
Defensive Battle Value = 1245.6

Offensive Battle Rating Calculation:

Base Heat Efficiency - Run Heat 32 - 2 = 30
Unmodified Weapon BV:

Medium Laser  46.0
Medium Laser  46.0
LRM 20  220.0
Streak SRM 6  118.0
Ultra AC/20  335.0
Medium Laser (R)  46.0
Medium Laser (R)  46.0
-------------

Unmodified Front BV:765.0
Unmodfied Rear BV:92.0
Unmodfied Turret BV:0.0
Total Unmodfied BV:857.0
Unmodified Front non-arm BV:673.0
Unmodfied Rear non-arm BV:92.0
Weapon Heat:
Medium Laser + 3.0
Medium Laser + 3.0
LRM 20 + 6.0
Streak SRM 6 + 2.0
Ultra AC/20 + 14.0
Medium Laser + 3.0
Medium Laser + 3.0
-------------
Total Heat: = 34.0
Weapons with no heat at full BV:
Heat Modified Weapons BV:
(Heat Exceeds Mech Heat Efficiency)

Ultra AC/20 335.0
Heat count: 14.0

LRM 20 220.0
Heat count: 20.0

Streak SRM 6 118.0
Heat count: 22.0

Medium Laser 46.0
Heat count: 25.0

Medium Laser 46.0
Heat count: 28.0

Medium Laser(R) 23.0
Heat count: 31.0

Medium Laser(R) Heat efficiency reached, half BV 11.5
Heat count: 34.0

-------------
Total Weapons BV Adjusted For Heat:799.5
Misc Offensive Equipment:
Total Misc Offensive Equipment BV:0.0
Total Ammo BV:195.0
Add weight +100.0
Final Speed Factor: 1.0
Weapons BV * Speed Factor 1094.5 * 1.0 = 1094.5
Offensive BV + Defensive BV 1245.6 + 1094.5 = 2340.1

Total BV * Cockpit Modifier 2340.1 * 1.0 = 2340.0


-------------
Final BV

2340.0
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 June 2021, 17:31:13
MML has the changes per the BOT Record Sheets.

Sorry Hammer, that's my bad. Meant to say SSW. Darn acronyms.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 15 June 2021, 18:33:37
Is http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8201/locust-lct-7v deliberately not available to Mercs during the Dark Age?
The 7V2 variant is available to them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 June 2021, 18:36:44
Is http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8201/locust-lct-7v deliberately not available to Mercs during the Dark Age?
The 7V2 variant is available to them.

Thanks, looks like the wrong faction was selected by mistake.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 16 June 2021, 09:05:06
Phoenix PX-1KL in Jihad is available for Lyran Commonwealth, must be Alliance instead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 June 2021, 09:47:36
Phoenix PX-1KL in Jihad is available for Lyran Commonwealth, must be Alliance instead.

you are correct, sir
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 16 June 2021, 14:49:58
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7594/loki-hellbringer-m
The Loki M seems to be accidentally tagged as Wolf-in-Exile rather than Hell's Horses during the Dark Age. Others i checked don't show WiE but Hell's Horses.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 June 2021, 14:52:53
sure enough. good catch.

barring a personal ride or some other circumstance, a faction should have access to all configs
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 June 2021, 12:37:20
Posting this here on recommendation from my original thread https://bg.battletech.com/forums/website-and-forum-support/mul-site-issue-adding-units-to-list/

I had an error on adding units to a list.
I try adding the Oro Heavy Tank (Standard) to a list twice but it only registers as once when I leave the build page to view other cards.

Steps to replicate this situation:
First I added the Night Wolf (standard) from its page via the plus button to the right.
Then I went to the Oro Heavy Tank (Standard) page and clicked twice.
I then went to the build page (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Force/Build) saw the tank there for just one, I found it in the search bar to the left and added it.
I now have two.
I then go look for other cards such as the Thor A, add it, but when I go back to the build page the Oro is only showing up for one again.

I don't know if this is a standard bug or something just for vee and Mechs mixing, but I did want to highlight that this is happening.

this requires some serious work under the hood so unfortunately we have no ETA for a fix
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 17 June 2021, 14:12:30
Found a paradox  :D
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1930/longbow-lgb-0w
Apprently during the early Succession wars, the LGB-0W is both available and extinct.

I wonder if Star League in Exile was meant to be tagged? Then again, the Star League seems to have favored the 7Q, when they used Longbows?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 17 June 2021, 15:04:23
Not sure if this is an error or not, but the GRF-5M Griffin is available to some of the FWL sub-states that joined together to reform the League in the Dark Age era but not on the League's Dark Age list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 June 2021, 15:40:06
Definitely missed. Virtually without exception any unit that has substate availability in the DA should also have general FWL.

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 18 June 2021, 01:44:50
Howdy MUL team.  Thanks as always for the work you do.

Any particular reason the Incubus (Vixen) 6 is not on the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 June 2021, 02:05:42
amusingly enough greekfire was going to add the vixen 6 and pendragon 3R tomorrow
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 June 2021, 08:20:48
Should the Warhammer -8K be available to other factions beyond Kurita as well?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3495/warhammer-whm-8k

RG07, pg8, implies the model was copied by others:
"The Draconis Combine refit its own Warhammers to -7K standard, and the resulting ’Mech was often confused with Marik refits. This would change abruptly with the introduction of a variant featuring paired heavy PPCs, a design which proved so popular that other Houses also copied it, refitting both newer Project Phoenix and more venerable Warhammers."

There certainly don't seem to be other HPPC-toting Warhammers beyond the same RG's -9K.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 18 June 2021, 09:11:33
amusingly enough greekfire was going to add the vixen 6 and pendragon 3R tomorrow
LOL.  Timing is everything.  Thanks for the response!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 June 2021, 09:24:05
I know the Thor II E along side the Shadow Cat IIIs have been canonized via inclusion to the MUL (along side the Shadow Cat III being in the rec guides) and I guess the Thunderbolt IIC 2 also. These were IWM special sculpts first. Is there any thought to making the Vixen 6 and Pendragon 3R official via inclusion on the MUL
Howdy MUL team.  Thanks as always for the work you do.

Any particular reason the Incubus (Vixen) 6 is not on the MUL?

After discussion and approval, entries for the Incubus 6 and Pendragon 3R are now on the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 June 2021, 09:24:38
Should the Warhammer -8K be available to other factions beyond Kurita as well?
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3495/warhammer-whm-8k

RG07, pg8, implies the model was copied by others:
"The Draconis Combine refit its own Warhammers to -7K standard, and the resulting ’Mech was often confused with Marik refits. This would change abruptly with the introduction of a variant featuring paired heavy PPCs, a design which proved so popular that other Houses also copied it, refitting both newer Project Phoenix and more venerable Warhammers."

Missed this bit of fluff. Will bring it up for discussion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 18 June 2021, 17:42:58
I will be curious because they took away the Locust LCT-7V is it very destabilizing?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 June 2021, 17:46:35
I will be curious because they took away the Locust LCT-7V is it very destabilizing?

Assuming you're talking about Marian access to the design, it was an erroneous addition in another faction's stead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 19 June 2021, 01:14:08
Many thanks for posting the Pendragon 3R - I've got the mini & will be painting it for a battalion, so knowing the AS stats helps me organise.

Unfortunately, the Role is currently None, whereas I'd think it should be Sniper.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8000/pendragon-pdg-3r

Cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 19 June 2021, 01:15:02
Double thanks - for uploading the Shandra as well!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 June 2021, 07:05:46
Many thanks for posting the Pendragon 3R ...
Unfortunately, the Role is currently None, whereas I'd think it should be Sniper.

Updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 19 June 2021, 14:42:23
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1929/loki-hellbringer-prime
Should the Loki be available to mercs as well as IS General list?
RG01 indicates the Sea Foxes sell it to everyone, so why not mercs as well? Of course, i suppose the same question could be extended to the Periphery.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 19 June 2021, 14:47:01
Updated.

Spasebo!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 June 2021, 22:49:50
There has been a minor but not unimportant adjustment to the border between the Jihad and Early Republic.

The MUL previously had the Jihad ending in 3085 and Early Republic beginning in 3086. This is incongruent with a number of published materials. The Jihad now ends in 3080 and the Early Republic begins in 3081. The 264 affected units debuting between 3081-3085 have had their intro era changed to match the shift.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 20 June 2021, 01:04:53
Is there any thought of adding wolf empire as a separate entity as either a Dark Age faction or in the future?

Edit: I see in their intro blurb that there is brief mention of the wolf empire.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 June 2021, 03:14:06
It's not out of the question, though it wouldn't be added until we activate the ilclan era - see the ravens and bears for similar situations. Ultimately we'll have to wait and see how things shake out in the early 3150s before we make any determinations
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 June 2021, 14:59:41
It's not out of the question, though it wouldn't be added until we activate the ilclan era - see the ravens and bears for similar situations. Ultimately we'll have to wait and see how things shake out in the early 3150s before we make any determinations

I guess you probably can't say but any indication on when the IlClan era will be added to the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 June 2021, 15:06:16
I would imagine there needs to be some products solidly into the IlClan era first. Namely IlClan and perhaps Tamar Rising. Both are labeled as IlClan era sourcebooks. (Shattered Fortress was labeled Dark Age.)
I'll note that RecGuides are technically set pre-IlClan, though they are marked with IlClan era logo.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 20 June 2021, 15:29:39
Why does the Crusader 10S have availability for the Wolfs Dragoons?

I get LC and their pet mercs the Kell Hounds. WD for much of the Dark Age have been on the other side of DC harassing the FedSuns.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 June 2021, 15:31:59
Why does the Crusader 10S have availability for the Wolfs Dragoons?

I get LC and their pet mercs the Kell Hounds. WD for much of the Dark Age have been on the other side of DC harassing the FedSuns.
I would assume the Kell Hounds might trade some to Wolf's Dragoons, those two merc units have had rather close relations for a long time as far as i can tell.
Or perhaps the Lyrans sent some to try to lure the WDs to their service.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 June 2021, 15:49:11
I guess you probably can't say but any indication on when the IlClan era will be added to the MUL?

Things are happening behind the scenes but nothing approaching actual draft lists. There is no ETA at this time
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 June 2021, 15:55:35
Why does the Crusader 10S have availability for the Wolfs Dragoons?

I get LC and their pet mercs the Kell Hounds. WD for much of the Dark Age have been on the other side of DC harassing the FedSuns.

The Dragoons served the Lyrans on the Jade Falcon front for 66 years straight up until the late 3130s. Their departure predated the Lyrans suffering tremendous casualties to both Clans, so it would have been possible for them to have purchased a few immediately before their departure to the FedSuns front.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 June 2021, 15:59:45
Ah, right, the -10S debuted in '37, so there's time for the Dragoons to get some, and given their elite nature and the -10S, quality, they would very much like some probably.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 20 June 2021, 19:04:43
The Dragoons served the Lyrans on the Jade Falcon front for 66 years straight up until the late 3130s. Their departure predated the Lyrans suffering tremendous casualties to both Clans, so it would have been possible for them to have purchased a few immediately before their departure to the FedSuns front.

Thank you. I was wondering how it worked for them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 21 June 2021, 17:15:41
Thank you. I was wondering how it worked for them.

And in a twist of fate, the latest Shrapnel has given a firm introductory to the Crusader 10S. The Dragoons have been removed as a result.
Their love affair was brief, tumultuous, and was never meant to be.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 22 June 2021, 13:45:33
Amazing job getting Volume 18 so soon to the MUL!
 A possible issue:
Kingfisher F is listed as Inner Sphere general during the jihad. Seems a bit odd
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1784/kingfisher-f

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 June 2021, 14:25:35
Amazing job getting Volume 18 so soon to the MUL!
 A possible issue:
Kingfisher F is listed as Inner Sphere general during the jihad. Seems a bit odd
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1784/kingfisher-f
Note that the Kingfisher is in general on IS General List during the Civil War and Jihad eras. Loot from Operation Bulldog.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 June 2021, 14:32:27
The newest Victor seems to have too early intro date. The issues is that RELs became production grade stuff in 3130. While earlier availability it not impossible, i'd imagine those would've been limited to prototypes and custom refits.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8259/victor-vtr-12d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 June 2021, 14:34:21
There were lots of clan omnis on the ISGen list in the jihad.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Technologies=2&Technologies=3&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=55&SubTypes=45&AvailableEras=14
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 June 2021, 15:03:19
Is the Firestarter Omni's intro date 3056 or 3057? The primary variant is currently listed as 3056 but other initial configurations are 3057.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1099/firestarter-fs9-o
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 June 2021, 15:17:16
3057.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 23 June 2021, 03:00:57
What’s going on with the Kingfisher T stat line?

It’s got 7/7/6 damage and flack and ECM.
It’s only got one weapon that reaches out past 15 hexes (the cut off for long range, right?)
It doesn’t have an ecm suite or any weapon that can produce flack.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 June 2021, 08:06:33
A very strong possibility I mucked up the data entry
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 23 June 2021, 08:18:44
Heh, I just fixed that during a double-check of the data without having seen that post.
Great minds, yada yada.

Should be good now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 23 June 2021, 12:50:19
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The Zeus-X introduction date can't be correct, because reactive armor becomes available in 3063 at earliest.
And TRO3145LC notes that the 'Mechs served during the FedCom Civil War, further indicating the 'Mech's introduction probably happened during that time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 June 2021, 12:58:19
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6631/zeus-x-zeu-x

The Zeus-X introduction date can't be correct, because reactive armor becomes available in 3063 at earliest.
And TRO3145LC notes that the 'Mechs served during the FedCom Civil War, further indicating the 'Mech's introduction probably happened during that time.

The Zeus-X is an exception not covered by the general availability rules for equipment, similar to Solaris 'mechs. 

The Zeus X is the cover of Maximum Tech, set in 3056.  Therefore the intro date had to be that date or earlier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 23 June 2021, 13:01:54
Oh. Well then. So, basically pre-final reactive armor and stuff... I need to add note for myself somewhere not to wonder about this later on :P

Does this have some weird fluff or IRL historical reason?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 June 2021, 13:03:46
since you responded so quickly, you might not have seen my addition, but "The Zeus X is the cover of Maximum Tech, set in 3056.  Therefore the intro date had to be that date or earlier."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 23 June 2021, 13:08:49
Ah. So IRL historical thing. I knew the Zeus-X was featured on some cover but didn't know when that thing was set on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Deadborder on 25 June 2021, 23:17:58
Regarding the Warhammer IIC 10; the 'Mech is said to be "based on an ancient Smoke Jaguar variant" (TRO3145 NTNU). Since it's statistically the same 'Mech, should the intro date be pushed back to reflect this?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 June 2021, 23:48:54
Is the SM5 Field Commander Omnitank supposed to have stats or are you waiting until the Shrapnel site is updated with Shrapnel 5s record sheets.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 June 2021, 23:50:16
we are waiting for the official record sheet
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 26 June 2021, 11:34:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/676/commando-com-7s

The Commando -7S introduction date probably should be '62 or later, unless the Lyrans are using prototype light engines in them. LFE's hit production status in '62 per IO. TRO3050U also indicates the Marian -4H variant debuted about the same time as the -7S, and has introduction in 3064.

Well, unless there's some weird reason like with the Zeus-X...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 June 2021, 06:26:04
The newest Victor seems to have too early intro date. The issues is that RELs became production grade stuff in 3130. While earlier availability it not impossible, i'd imagine those would've been limited to prototypes and custom refits.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8259/victor-vtr-12d

User error; I took the Prototype date as the Production date. Should be good now.
The Emperor 8L was caught in the crossfire, and now has a slightly later intro date as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 28 June 2021, 12:30:17

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4551/lyonesse-escort-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3709/aquarius-escort-standard

These are two different units, but in the MUL they both use the same art, it is very confusing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 June 2021, 12:33:13
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4551/lyonesse-escort-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3709/aquarius-escort-standard

These are two different units, but in the MUL they both use the same art, it is very confusing.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aquarius
Looks like one is based on the other, hence the same art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 June 2021, 12:42:00
Found something that could imply the Dervish -7D should be in the St. Ives Compact availability list in MUL.
FMCC page 32 notes that the SIMC is rather heavy-weight, with exception of surplus Dervishes bought from Achernar when New Avalon's Dervish line was converted to manufacture Enforcer IIIs.
I mention the -7D specifically because it seems unlikely that plant would've been churning out the older -6Ms which are already IS General available. Also, the book's RATs (pg122-123) for CCAF and SIMC do contain the -7D. (Incidentally the RAT also lists some other FedSuns designs for the SIMC.)

This said, i acknowledge this may not be significant enough to warrant inclusion of the Dervish -7D in St. Ives (and Civil War-era CapCon list).

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/880/dervish-dv-7d
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 June 2021, 12:49:12
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4551/lyonesse-escort-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3709/aquarius-escort-standard

These are two different units, but in the MUL they both use the same art, it is very confusing.

Often with things like this there's not much to be done because they use the same art for both units. However, consulting RS:3075AW, they have been indeed given separate art. The Aquarius is now looking more like itself, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 June 2021, 06:56:37
Found something that could imply the Dervish -7D should be in the St. Ives Compact availability list in MUL.
FMCC page 32 notes that the SIMC is rather heavy-weight, with exception of surplus Dervishes bought from Achernar when New Avalon's Dervish line was converted to manufacture Enforcer IIIs.
I mention the -7D specifically because it seems unlikely that plant would've been churning out the older -6Ms which are already IS General available. Also, the book's RATs (pg122-123) for CCAF and SIMC do contain the -7D. (Incidentally the RAT also lists some other FedSuns designs for the SIMC.)

This was a nice bit of research and logic. Added.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 30 June 2021, 07:07:55
This was a nice bit of research and logic. Added.
huh, nice.
Now i seriously need to get paint off this Dervish to add it to my St. Ives force...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 30 June 2021, 08:49:48
Trying to keep the St Ives streak going, I noticed they are the only faction without access to a LosTech Warhammer upgrade. All but them and the FedCom have access to the 7M and the FedCom has the 7S.

I'm guessing they should get one of these? Both are simple field refits so it shouldn't be a matter of factory access. Perhaps they should follow the FedCom's availability on this one and get 7S?

I checked the FM:CC and the RATs, and no mentions of Warhammers... Just the fluff that about 40% of their designs come from the FedCom, and as stated earlier, their units run on the heavy side. We also know they went into the Clan Invasion Era with a decent amount of 6Rs and 6Ls that were upgrade candidates.
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 30 June 2021, 11:51:22
I'll note that the St. Ives Compact seems to have access to the Archer -4M, which makes it kinda weird they wouldn't have the Warhammer 7M. Seems unlikely the FWL is somehow prevented from selling to the St. Ives Compact.

Neither the Warhammer or Archer appear in FMCC RATs though.

Interestingly the said RATs are very heavy on FedSuns/earlier FedCom designs for the St. Ives.

I'll list designs in the RATs not found in MUL's St. Ives+IS General list circa 3062:
Atlas AS7-S, -K
Banshee -5S
Nightstar -9J, -9FC
Salamander -5S
Devastator DVS-2
Charger -1A9
Rakshasa -1A
Maelstrom -5K
Penetrator -4D
Cataphract -3D (Interestingly the -3L does appear in CCAF/SIMC equipment rating C RAT)
Caesar -3R
Axman -1N
Catapult -C3
JagerMech -DD
Men Shen (almost certainly captured, probably not MUL worthy)
Bushwacker -X1
Enforcer -5D
Enforcer III -6M
Vindicator -1AA (not even in ER C, rather in ER B while the Vindy 3L is in C list...)
Hatchetman -5S
Stealth -1D
Sentry -04
Vulcan -5S
Watchman -4M
Owens
Raven -3L (almost certainly captured, probably not MUL worthy)
Spector -5F
Venom -9K
Wolfhound -1, -2
Arctic Fox
Battle Hawk -305
Javelin -10P
Spider "-5M" (probably typo or other error? there's no such Spider, so probably the 7M which is on MUL list)
Scarabus -9T
UrbanMech -R63
Command "-5D" (another error, perhaps -5S?)
Duan Gung D9-G9 (almost certainly captured, probably not MUL worthy)
Fireball -7D

Obviously some may be errors, some may have appeared in small enough numbers not MUL worthy.
EDIT also didn't mean that these should be on MUL's list. Just something to consider.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 30 June 2021, 18:33:51
Shadow Hawk IIC 6 doesn’t have a picture.
The one that are still unseen use a silhouette, and the PP/Reseen ones have their own versions of the art.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 June 2021, 20:26:10
Shadow Hawk IIC 6 doesn’t have a picture.
The one that are still unseen use a silhouette, and the PP/Reseen ones have their own versions of the art.

Good catch, fixed.

Obviously some may be errors, some may have appeared in small enough numbers not MUL worthy.
EDIT also didn't mean that these should be on MUL's list. Just something to consider.

Oh boy, RATs...I'll delve into this to see if there's anything to support any of these, but no promises that any of this list will be added.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 30 June 2021, 20:33:58
Oh boy, RATs...I'll delve into this to see if there's anything to support any of these, but no promises that any of this list will be added.
Just figured that current St. Ives list is a bit bare bones and old tech, and fields quite many FedSuns designs, also not really reflected on its MUL list.
FMCC does note that the St. Ives Compact managed to upgrade quite a bit of its forces between the Clan Invasion and the Capellan War. Err, at least i'm pretty sure i read it that way...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 30 June 2021, 23:11:20
Just figured that current St. Ives list is a bit bare bones and old tech, and fields quite many FedSuns designs, also not really reflected on its MUL list.
FMCC does note that the St. Ives Compact managed to upgrade quite a bit of its forces between the Clan Invasion and the Capellan War. Err, at least i'm pretty sure i read it that way...

I agree that SIC could always use a little more love, but I also agree that many of those would not make the cut. I've always interpreted the FedCom military aid coming in the 3030-3050 years, but the FMCC states that they had a bulk of purchases from the FedCom "in the last decade" (3052-62). It also says that all but the Dervishes came from the Sarna March, so that narrows what they should get pretty clearly.

Also, remember that they get a boost from all the Marik and Indy producer LosTech that goes on the IS-General list, and that a lot of Marik designs dominate the FedCom refits.

Of the ones on Empyrus' list, I'd say the best candidates for adding would be a) field refits of Mechs where they already had the Intro-tech variants, and b) Sarna March produced Mechs.

Those would be:
Refits on the RAT list:
Javelin 10P
Urbie R63
Catapult C3 (if they have access to Arrow IVs, that is)
Atlas S
Other refits not on the RAT list:
Clint 2-3U
Warhammer 7S (or 7M)

Sarna March FedCom Production:
On RAT list:
Cataphract 3D (Earthwerks-Tikonov)
From Rec Guide 15 (both also at Earthwerks):
Thunderbolt 9SE
Thunderbolt 9S
(SIC already has/produces the Victor 9D, which is on Styk, too)


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 July 2021, 04:48:43
This is not a place for discussion among players.  Please take that elsewhere in the forums.  Players can ask the MUL team here, and the MUL team can answer.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 02 July 2021, 06:10:06
Marian Hegemony infantry:
1) Foot Platoon, Marian (x4) (LRM) is missing from the TW infantry types.

Foot Level Is, Points, standard IS platoons with LRMs are all there, as are the Marian Motorized and Mechanized infantry units and the "Foot Platoon, Marian 3049+ (x4) (LRM)"

In case the missing platoon was left out intentionally because the 3049 Marian Infantry Kit arrived before the Infantry LRM laucher (3057): Marian Jump, Motorized and Mechanized LRM infantry still offer both variants, with and w/o the 3049 kit, only the foot infantry stands out.

2) All Mechanized Infantry units are styled "Mechanized [Hover|Tracked|Wheeled] Platoon  (optional state and year) (weapon)" except for the Marian units which leave off the "Mechanized" part.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 July 2021, 15:39:51
In Clan Ghost Bear description, link to the Rasalhague Dominion leads to factions page rather than directly to Rasalhague Dominion page. The issue seems to be a " in the url.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/11
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 July 2021, 16:20:57
In Clan Ghost Bear description, link to the Rasalhague Dominion leads to factions page rather than directly to Rasalhague Dominion page. The issue seems to be a " in the url.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/11

inter-era bears are now linked properly
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 July 2021, 16:59:30
Awsum!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 04 July 2021, 21:44:17
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1771/king-crab-kgc-0000

Should this King Crab's Early Republic availability be extinct? Currently it is IS General, but that is a bit weird since it dropped from that for Civil War and Jihad eras. Afterwards it goes extinct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 July 2021, 22:31:24
it's a function of how IS General changes coverage from the Jihad to Early Republic. The former accounts for ComStar, WoB, and Filtvelt. All three drop off the list by Early Republic so the faction list in Jihad defaults to IS General as the Republic picked up a sufficient number to get folded in.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 July 2021, 06:53:07
Ah, i see now. I'll keep this mind in case i run into other cases like this.

And now that i think of this, i realize that the IS general faction page lists which factions it covers... doh.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DocNightfall on 05 July 2021, 12:13:12
The battle value of Hover Assault Infantry is just slightly off. Thanks.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 July 2021, 14:30:20
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7452/ostscout-ott-12r

Should be marked Mixed tech unit as it has a Clan ERLL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 July 2021, 14:47:01
great, you blew his cover
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 07 July 2021, 03:59:23
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7602/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1bc
Available to Marik-Stewart Commonwealth, but Jihad Era is ending in 3080 and state appeared in 82. Should be removed totally or changed to FWL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: KhanWick on 09 July 2021, 10:08:10
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2
Gives a .NET error for a required non-null string value that is probably set to null in database.

Corax C (1) and Corax omni work fine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 July 2021, 15:05:34
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4001/corax-c-2
Gives a .NET error for a required non-null string value that is probably set to null in database.

Corax C (1) and Corax omni work fine.

This has been passed to skyhigh. Thanks for the heads up
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 09 July 2021, 15:25:48
Maybe I've just been spoiled rotten by the MUL teams's customary fast responses  :), but since I've always had received an ack or nack in a couple of hours, I suspect that this might have fallen through the cracks:

Marian Hegemony infantry:
1) Foot Platoon, Marian (x4) (LRM) is missing from the TW infantry types.

Foot Level Is, Points, standard IS platoons with LRMs are all there, as are the Marian Motorized and Mechanized infantry units and the "Foot Platoon, Marian 3049+ (x4) (LRM)"

In case the missing platoon was left out intentionally because the 3049 Marian Infantry Kit arrived before the Infantry LRM laucher (3057): Marian Jump, Motorized and Mechanized LRM infantry still offer both variants, with and w/o the 3049 kit, only the foot infantry stands out.

2) All Mechanized Infantry units are styled "Mechanized [Hover|Tracked|Wheeled] Platoon  (optional state and year) (weapon)" except for the Marian units which leave off the "Mechanized" part.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 July 2021, 20:58:22
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7602/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1bc
Available to Marik-Stewart Commonwealth, but Jihad Era is ending in 3080 and state appeared in 82. Should be removed totally or changed to FWL.

Indeed so. The Jihad on the MUL was misaligned by five years with published materials so the era used to cover the MSC. There may be a few other substate stragglers like this one
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 July 2021, 22:43:36
Marian Hegemony infantry:
1) Foot Platoon, Marian (x4) (LRM) is missing from the TW infantry types.

Foot Level Is, Points, standard IS platoons with LRMs are all there, as are the Marian Motorized and Mechanized infantry units and the "Foot Platoon, Marian 3049+ (x4) (LRM)"

In case the missing platoon was left out intentionally because the 3049 Marian Infantry Kit arrived before the Infantry LRM laucher (3057): Marian Jump, Motorized and Mechanized LRM infantry still offer both variants, with and w/o the 3049 kit, only the foot infantry stands out.

Will have to check in on this one - not sure if the foot one should be added or the motorized and jump versions removed.


Quote
2) All Mechanized Infantry units are styled "Mechanized [Hover|Tracked|Wheeled] Platoon  (optional state and year) (weapon)" except for the Marian units which leave off the "Mechanized" part.

correcting this

thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 July 2021, 20:25:56
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7602/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1bc
Available to Marik-Stewart Commonwealth, but Jihad Era is ending in 3080 and state appeared in 82. Should be removed totally or changed to FWL.

it was determined that the MSC faction also includes the Marik Commonwealth, which was fully independent in 3079. This only affects about a half dozen units
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Heavyguard on 12 July 2021, 15:18:07
Roles for the Arctic Wolf II Prime and A appear to be reversed.

RS 3085 swapped these two from as presented in TRO3085. The RS were confirmed in the RS3085 errata thread as being correct.

Arctic Wolf II Prime has the Striker role with LRM2/2/2 and IF2 specials - should be Missile Boat role.
Arctic Wolf II A has the Missile Boat role with only short/medium range weaponry but Active Probe and ECM - should be Striker or Scout role.

Arctic Wolf II B & C have similar weaponry to the A and are both the Striker Role.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/104/arctic-wolf-ii-a
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 15 July 2021, 20:23:41
I think I have a few random vehicle errata...

1. J. Edgar (standard): I think it should have availability on the Merc list (all eras)? It's a pretty common unit and its notable crew in TRO 3039 is from the 21st Centauri Lancers:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1641/j-edgar-light-hover-tank-standard
Same may also hold for the Flamer and MG variants (both listed as common field refits in TRO 3039):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1640/j-edgar-light-hover-tank-mg
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1637/j-edgar-light-hover-tank-flamer

2. Scorpion and variants: I think Jade Falcons should only have these from Civil War era forward? (Made on Pandora, captured in 3064)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2847/scorpion-light-tank-standard
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2842/scorpion-light-tank-lrm
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2846/scorpion-light-tank-srm
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2844/scorpion-light-tank-ml

As a side note, there are several IS vehicles with Clan availability that seem off (for example, Diamond Sharks have a couple made nowhere near the OZ area). Are these worth posting, or are these likely from a source outside the usual TROs, Handbooks, Objectives, etc.?

3. Striker (ammo): http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5154/striker-light-tank-ammo
Two errata:
3a. Tech level should be Standard instead of Introductory (it is the ammo variant of the 3053 LostTech upgrade)
3b. If that is correct, availability should probably be changed to be the same as the Striker (3053 upgrade) (i.e., Dracs, FedCom, Fed Suns, LC/LA, later Nova Cats, etc., rather than everyone)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 July 2021, 21:00:12
As a side note, there are several IS vehicles with Clan availability that seem off (for example, Diamond Sharks have a couple made nowhere near the OZ area). Are these worth posting, or are these likely from a source outside the usual TROs, Handbooks, Objectives, etc.?

Would need more information just to guess.  The Sturmfeur and Striker for CDS in Clan Invasion does seem odd. Feel free to mention whichever ones you were looking at.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 15 July 2021, 21:46:15
Would need more information just to guess.  The Sturmfeur and Striker for CDS in Clan Invasion does seem odd. Feel free to mention whichever ones you were looking at.

Ok, here's what I have for suspect availabilities during Clan Invasion and Civil War Eras (and likely beyond). For Diamond Sharks, I could see a story where they bought unwanted units produced in the OZs then kept/sold them, though they were only in the IS for 2 years each during the Clan Invasion and Civil War Eras.
Saracen (standard) --available to Wolf, but produced by Scarborough on An Ting
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2796/saracen-medium-hover-tank-standard
Striker Light Tank (standard) -- available to CDS starting in Clan Invasion era but produced by Valiant on Johnsondale (FS); should be unavailable to all Clans?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3105/striker-light-tank-standard
Hezter WAG (standard) -- available to CDS, CNC in Clan Invasion era forward, and CGB from Civil War forward; could use the sales story above (produced on Alshain), but then CGB should likely have access during Clan Invasion
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1513/hetzer-wheeled-assault-gun-standard
Ontos (standard) -- available to CDS from Clan Invasion era forward, but produced by Kallon on Nanking (FS); should be unavailable to all Clans?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2331/ontos-heavy-tank-standard
Sturmfeur (standard) -- available to CDS, CNC in Clan Invasion era forward; could also use the DS sales story (produced on Sudeten), but then CJF may also likely have access during Clan Invasion
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3115/sturmfeur-heavy-tank-standard
Regulator Hover Tank (standard) -- available to CDS in Civil War era forward, but produced by CC on Betelguese and not exported widely; should be unavailable to all Clans?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2677/regulator-hovertank-standard


There are also a few potential "false negatives" based on production listed in Objectives: Clans (3079) and what's listed as available in the MUL for other Clans:
SRM Carrier (3054 upgrade) -- CJF listed as producing SRM carriers on Pandora in Obj: Clans, and I assume it would be the latest version as of 3064, so perhaps available to CJF in Civil War era forward?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3028/srm-carrier-3054-upgrade
Centipede Scout Car (standard) -- CJF listed as producing Centipedes on Pandora in Obj: Clans, so perhaps available to CJF in Civil War era forward?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/514/centipede-scout-car-standard
Condor Hover Tank (laser) -- CJF listed as producing Centipedes on Pandora in Obj: Clans, and I assume it would be the latest version as of 3064, so perhaps available to CJF in Civil War era forward?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/681/condor-heavy-hover-tank-laser
Scorpion (standard) -- if CJF keeps Scorpion production on Pandora going, then would the same be true for CGB on Alshain and Spittal? (would be from Clan Invasion era forward if so)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2847/scorpion-light-tank-standard
Axel Mk 1 and Axel Mk 2 -- CGB produces the Axel IIC on Spittal by 3079 (Obj: Clans), so should they also produce (and have available) IS versions prior to IIC's 3074 intro?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/180/axel-heavy-tank-mk-1
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/181/axel-heavy-tank-mk-2




Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 16 July 2021, 08:18:16
While working on 'Mech family trees I came across an oddness.  I'm not sure if it's an error, or just strange.

Dark Age Era Scorpion Empire and Escorpión Imperio have access to Phoenix Hawk 3D and 3S seemingly out of nowhere.  Earlier on the Escorpión Imperio has the 1 and C models only.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 July 2021, 09:02:58
While working on 'Mech family trees I came across an oddness.  I'm not sure if it's an error, or just strange.

Dark Age Era Scorpion Empire and Escorpión Imperio have access to Phoenix Hawk 3D and 3S seemingly out of nowhere.  Earlier on the Escorpión Imperio has the 1 and C models only.

Ah, that was supposed to just be the Empire.

A few fringe cases like this are meant to acknowledge the different militaries and production lines of the Hansa and the Scorpions. Things would be a bit more fluid if we had a Hansa list, but that's not on our immediate radar at this point in time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 16 July 2021, 21:41:47
I know they were just posted, but are the larger aerospace units going to be added to the MUL?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 16 July 2021, 22:19:18
I know they were just posted, but are the larger aerospace units going to be added to the MUL?

No. They were released as a PDF because the MUL can’t handle the cards for large units.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 17 July 2021, 11:03:50
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/498/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-x
Wrong BV, right value is 2435. Instead of BV year is entered second time.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Elmoth on 17 July 2021, 15:21:02
I think the point value for the Gorilla Falcata exoskeleton is wrong. 1 PV for this unit seems odd when similar units are significantly higher costed.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5440/gorilla-exoskeleton-falcata

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 July 2021, 15:47:55
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/498/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-x
Wrong BV, right value is 2435. Instead of BV year is entered second time.

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 July 2021, 17:05:07
Is this a duplicate?:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7767/dragonstar-passenger-transport
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8112/dragons-star-standard

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 July 2021, 17:09:37
Nope. The Standard is the original design from the age of war. The Passenger transport appeared during the early Star League
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RogueK on 20 July 2021, 08:02:06
According to the Master Unit List the Federated Suns does not appear to have access to the Inner Sphere Standard Battle Armor in any era.

Is this correct? Because I'd been under the impression that while they discontinued it once the Cavalier became available they still had significant inventories of it at that point.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 July 2021, 08:08:48
It's available to the FedCom during the Clan Invasion, which includes the FedSuns
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RogueK on 20 July 2021, 08:40:21
It's available to the FedCom during the Clan Invasion, which includes the FedSuns

It seems weird given that both Lyran Alliance and Lyran Commonwealth get it in clan invasion era then. Why were Fedsuns excluded when it was completionist otherwise? It's a bit inconvenient from a faction checking perspective.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 20 July 2021, 21:46:33
They do. Their version is called the Cavalier Battle Armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 24 July 2021, 17:19:05
Titan (2647) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5248/titan-2647)

I believe this should have the TRO:2750 image (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Titan-sl.jpg). The other two variants are Clan-tech and have the TRO:3057 image. If this is indeed an error, it is repeated in Alpha Stike Aerospace Cards: DropShips and Small Craft, but there's no thread for that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 July 2021, 18:18:01
You are correct and possible psychic. I just added the 2750 warships yesterday and the dropships are next on my list
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Berith on 25 July 2021, 02:54:48
Hey, so I have a suggestion for the MUL force builder. Battle Armors are all defaulted to 4 suits per squad and that would be fine if nobody was playing Clans or ComStar/WoB. So my idea, and feel free to shoot me down, is to create seperate listings for BA squads based upon number of suits. Purifier Laser (RotS) and Purifier Laser (Level I) for example.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 25 July 2021, 15:00:49
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7789/shadow-hawk-shd-7h
Since the SHD-7H debuts in 3101, it probably should not have Early Republic availability at all which ends in 3100. Or is it meant to debut earlier than 3101?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 July 2021, 16:06:17
Hey, so I have a suggestion for the MUL force builder. Battle Armors are all defaulted to 4 suits per squad and that would be fine if nobody was playing Clans or ComStar/WoB. So my idea, and feel free to shoot me down, is to create seperate listings for BA squads based upon number of suits. Purifier Laser (RotS) and Purifier Laser (Level I) for example.

The intro dates of the 4H and 7H were swapped back in April but the eras were not updated. Both are fixed now
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 27 July 2021, 03:58:54
The Marauder II MAD-6S has an introduction date of 3133, but availability for the Republic of the Sphere for both Early Republic (3081 - 3100) and Late Republic (3101 - 3120) eras.  Either the introduction date or the availabilities are wrong.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 July 2021, 23:48:23
Will have to check in on this one - not sure if the foot one should be added or the motorized and jump versions removed.

Since the infantry LRM debuted in 3057, it was determined that only upgraded platoons (the 3049+ gang) would get them. Therefore, the following platoons have been removed

Mechanized Hover Platoon, Marian (LRM)
Mechanized Tracked Platoon, Marian (LRM)
Mechanized Wheeled Platoon, Marian (LRM)
Motorized Platoon, Marian (x4) (LRM)
Jump Platoon, Marian (x2) (LRM)
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 July 2021, 00:10:06
I think the point value for the Gorilla Falcata exoskeleton is wrong. 1 PV for this unit seems odd when similar units are significantly higher costed.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5440/gorilla-exoskeleton-falcata

as there are no other BA with a PV of less than three, there's a chance it's an error. Will investigate

The Marauder II MAD-6S has an introduction date of 3133, but availability for the Republic of the Sphere for both Early Republic (3081 - 3100) and Late Republic (3101 - 3120) eras.  Either the introduction date or the availabilities are wrong.

probably the availabilities but will double check

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 02 August 2021, 10:08:33
The Commando COM-2D is available to both Periphery General and Taurian Concordat for the Clan Invasion and Civil War eras.  I believe that the Taurian Concordat availability is superfluous and should be removed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 August 2021, 11:16:12
he gone
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 05 August 2021, 05:30:18
The new Victor, VTR-12D, is shown in the MUL as having an introductory date of 3132, but availability for Fed Suns, Republic and Mercs in Late Republic (3101 - 3130).

Either the introductory date needs to be earlier (3122?) or the availabilities need to be removed from the Late Republic period.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 August 2021, 08:21:59
Date was changed but the late republic availability was not removed. Fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Azakael on 06 August 2021, 19:51:00
Okay, this is one that seems odd to me.
Lightray LGH-4Y. Shows Escorpión Imperio availability from Jihad era onward, with Scorpion Empire getting access in Dark Ages. Considering it's a WoB Mech and all other variants are Extinct post-Jihad, is this in error?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 06 August 2021, 19:53:47
The Scorpions captured a major WoB supply cache at one point.  This informed their RATs and access for that period.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 August 2021, 20:29:56
Look up Waypoint 531 for more info
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Panthros on 08 August 2021, 02:24:26
Getting ready to replay some Clan Jade Falcon versus 1st Somerset Strikers tomorrow and I noticed the Banshee Aerospace Fighter does not have a card.  I know not every unit will be in the MUL so I guess it is time for me to learn how points are assigned.  Where would I find this?  Thanks in advance.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5855
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2021, 03:09:40
like most other units in XTRO Boondoggles, the Banshee fighter is an illegal design and cannot be assigned an AS card. If you would like to convert it as an AS fighter, the stats are in that volume and the conversion rules are in the Alpha Strike Companion 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 11 August 2021, 04:25:20
The Ostroc 3C variant has Periphery General availability from its introduction in the Early Succession War period all the way through to its extinction at the end of the Early Republic era.  Except for the Civil War era (3062-3067).  During the Civil War era only, this variant is available to Pirates.  It seems wrong for a change covering just 6 years in a 220+ year deployment.

Suggestion - In the Civil War era availability for Ostroc OSR-3C, change Pirates to Periphery General
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 August 2021, 07:45:19
Yeah, clearly a simple data entry error.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 August 2021, 20:38:24
Backlog Bonus Round!

Should the Kell Hounds have access to the Puma/Adder in the Dark Age? They seem to have all the other WiE produced mechs.

we agreed they should. added

Regarding the Warhammer IIC 10; the 'Mech is said to be "based on an ancient Smoke Jaguar variant" (TRO3145 NTNU). Since it's statistically the same 'Mech, should the intro date be pushed back to reflect this?

it's a separate design and is a Phoenix modeling. Perhaps someday the original Jags model will make an appearance.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/676/commando-com-7s

The Commando -7S introduction date probably should be '62 or later, unless the Lyrans are using prototype light engines in them. LFE's hit production status in '62 per IO. TRO3050U also indicates the Marian -4H variant debuted about the same time as the -7S, and has introduction in 3064.

Well, unless there's some weird reason like with the Zeus-X...

Moved to 3064

I think the point value for the Gorilla Falcata exoskeleton is wrong. 1 PV for this unit seems odd when similar units are significantly higher costed.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5440/gorilla-exoskeleton-falcata

PV should be 3

The Marauder II MAD-6S has an introduction date of 3133, but availability for the Republic of the Sphere for both Early Republic (3081 - 3100) and Late Republic (3101 - 3120) eras.  Either the introduction date or the availabilities are wrong.

Moved up to 3090
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 14 August 2021, 16:13:24
I didn't see any specific mention in a search here... are the Combat Manual custom units on a list to be added?  They already have AS stats listed in their respective books, just no record sheets.

From Combat Manual: Mercenaries:
Thunderbolt "Toujours L’Audace" TDR-5SE (p. 37)
Archer ARC- 2R Ismail and ARC-4M Ismail (p. 53)
Scorpion SCP-1N Wendall 2 (p. 64)
Crockett CRK-5003-0 Saddleford (p. 68)

From Combat Manual: Kurita:
Jenner JR7-D Webster (p. 30)
Ostsol OTL-5M Maki (p. 33)
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T Lowenbrau (p. 35)
Kintaro KTO-19 Omar (p. 55)
Ostsol OTL-4D Ragnar (p. 66)
Griffin GRF-1DS Almstedt (p. 69)

(No guarantee this is all of them, but I did my best.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 15 August 2021, 00:33:27
(Assuming old RATs matter...)
Missing from Marian Hegemony (Civil War era), according to the RAT in FM: Periphery, p. 147:
JVN-10P Javelin
MON-66 Mongoose
CLNT-2-3T Clint
ASN-40 Assassin (likely an error as this variant doesn't exist?)
VND-1R Vindicator
VND-3L Vindicator
TMP-3M Tempest
CTF-1X Cataphract
ON2-M Orion
ZEU-9S Zeus
BNC-3M Banshee
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: koraq on 15 August 2021, 06:54:44
The Scorpion Light Tank (Standard) has this list of AS Specials:
EE, SRCH, TUR(1/1/1)

The Scorpion Light Tank (ML) has this list of AS Specials:
CT1, EE, SRCH, TUR(2,1,-)

Considering the Standard has an AC5 and the ML one has Medium Lasers, shouldn't the EE only be on the ML model, and the Standard one have an AC# instead?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 15 August 2021, 07:15:53
The Scorpion Light Tank (Standard) has this list of AS Specials:
EE, SRCH, TUR(1/1/1)

The Scorpion Light Tank (ML) has this list of AS Specials:
CT1, EE, SRCH, TUR(2,1,-)

Considering the Standard has an AC5 and the ML one has Medium Lasers, shouldn't the EE only be on the ML model, and the Standard one have an AC# instead?

No. EE refers to the engine, ENE requires all weapons be energy/non-explosive not just some (the MG disqualifies it), and AC requires at least 1.0 damage from AC. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: koraq on 15 August 2021, 08:12:24
Ah! That's correct. My bad. ENE is not EE. I misread.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 August 2021, 13:36:38
(Assuming old RATs matter...)
Missing from Marian Hegemony (Civil War era), according to the RAT in FM: Periphery, p. 147:
JVN-10P Javelin
MON-66 Mongoose
CLNT-2-3T Clint
ASN-40 Assassin (likely an error as this variant doesn't exist?)
VND-1R Vindicator
VND-3L Vindicator
TMP-3M Tempest
CTF-1X Cataphract
ON2-M Orion
ZEU-9S Zeus
BNC-3M Banshee

Under review
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 August 2021, 14:16:34
I didn't see any specific mention in a search here... are the Combat Manual custom units on a list to be added?  They already have AS stats listed in their respective books, just no record sheets.

From Combat Manual: Mercenaries:
Thunderbolt "Toujours L’Audace" TDR-5SE (p. 37)
Archer ARC- 2R Ismail and ARC-4M Ismail (p. 53)
Scorpion SCP-1N Wendall 2 (p. 64)
Crockett CRK-5003-0 Saddleford (p. 68)

From Combat Manual: Kurita:
Jenner JR7-D Webster (p. 30)
Ostsol OTL-5M Maki (p. 33)
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T Lowenbrau (p. 35)
Kintaro KTO-19 Omar (p. 55)
Ostsol OTL-4D Ragnar (p. 66)
Griffin GRF-1DS Almstedt (p. 69)

(No guarantee this is all of them, but I did my best.)

These will be added but we'll have to sort out their Roles, which will involve consulting the person or persons that have the CBT stats.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 16 August 2021, 04:08:20
The Emperor 6A-EC has no availability for the Early Republic Era.  That is no availability rather than Extinct availability - the Faction availability column on the right-hand side goes:
Civil War (3062 - 3067)
Jihad (3068 - 3080)
Late Republic (3101 -3130)
Dark Age (3131 - 3150)

And the Emperor 8L has an introductory date of 3135, but availability in Late Republic (3101 -3130).  Again, one of those is wrong.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 August 2021, 06:56:17
For the -EC, that’s intentional. The Scorpions upgraded some of the -6As in their inventory with revived early clantech beginning sometime after 3100. Another stopgap like the Araña. Any possessors of the design in the early republic would potentially be homeworld clans and anything regarding that is a big ?

The -8L will require a bit of investigation

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 August 2021, 07:33:01
For the EMP-8L, the Late Republic availability is in error. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 17 August 2021, 04:15:04
For the -EC, that’s intentional. The Scorpions upgraded some of the -6As in their inventory with revived early clantech beginning sometime after 3100. Another stopgap like the Araña. Any possessors of the design in the early republic would potentially be homeworld clans and anything regarding that is a big ?

Thanks

Well, someone has changed it so that there is Escorpión Imperio availability for it in Early Republic rather than just a NULL.  But, based on your comment, this is an error, and the availability ought to be Extinct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 17 August 2021, 12:32:16
Hover Scout (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4332/hover-scout-standard) is 10 tons, so size should be 1. In fact... all stats seem far too good for a lightly armored hover with 1 ML in a turret.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 August 2021, 12:54:36
Well, someone has changed it so that there is Escorpión Imperio availability for it in Early Republic rather than just a NULL.  But, based on your comment, this is an error, and the availability ought to be Extinct.

Go with what’s on the site
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2021, 12:56:04
Hover Scout (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4332/hover-scout-standard) is 10 tons, so size should be 1. In fact... all stats seem far too good for a lightly armored hover with 1 ML in a turret.

Deleted the AS stats, they were not related to that unit at all.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 17 August 2021, 16:08:20
Deleted the AS stats, they were not related to that unit at all.  Thanks.
Since there is a record sheet, albeit old, will there be a card? (It uses fractional accounting for the turret and "sensors/communication".)


Also, the Rhino Fire Support Tank (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4913/rhino-fire-support-tank-standard) has no card, but nearly all other variants do. Simple mistake?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 August 2021, 16:49:20
Since there is a record sheet, albeit old, will there be a card? (It uses fractional accounting for the turret and "sensors/communication".)
Not until the record sheet is updated.

Quote
Also, the Rhino Fire Support Tank (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4913/rhino-fire-support-tank-standard) has no card, but nearly all other variants do. Simple mistake?
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 18 August 2021, 04:47:14
Hi, the Crockett CRK-5003-1b, in the Early Succession Wars era, has availability for Homeworld Clans general, as well as Clans Burrock, Coyote and Nova Cat specifically.

I would suggest that either the generic Homeworlds Clans or the 3 specific Clans should be there, but not both.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 August 2021, 07:36:12
Hi, the Crockett CRK-5003-1b, in the Early Succession Wars era, has availability for Homeworld Clans general, as well as Clans Burrock, Coyote and Nova Cat specifically.

I would suggest that either the generic Homeworlds Clans or the 3 specific Clans should be there, but not both.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Ehyduk on 19 August 2021, 17:28:39
The Crusader CRD-3R seems to have disappeared/been deleted from the MUL, not sure why? Possibly an error in an update?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 August 2021, 17:43:58
I hate it and no one is allowed to use it ever again I thought I had copied it to create an entry for one of the CM:Mercs custom units. Turns out I was editing the original entry instead and had it set to invisible. Fixed now
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 27 August 2021, 15:30:32
Yellow Jacket (PPC) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3615/yellow-jacket-gunship-ppc) change speed to 18"v. Source (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/msg617292/#msg617292)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 27 August 2021, 17:32:13
ZOOOOM
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 29 August 2021, 12:32:33
I really respect all the work that has gone into the recent updates to the MUL. It's impressive and appreciated.

I do have a couple questions;

Will the CAR1 Infantry Squads in CM:Mercenaries and CM:Kurita be added to the MUL?

When using the Alpha Strike Force Builder, is there a way to add the Squad 5 (CAR5) Point of Clan BA rather than the smaller version?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 31 August 2021, 03:24:46
I'm poking about again.

The Griffin IIC (Standard), in the Dark Age Era, has availability for Inner Sphere Clan General and also Clan Nova Cat.  I believe Clan Nova Cat is a subset of General and so can be removed as superfluous.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 31 August 2021, 07:33:55
I'm poking about again.

The Griffin IIC (Standard), in the Dark Age Era, has availability for Inner Sphere Clan General and also Clan Nova Cat.  I believe Clan Nova Cat is a subset of General and so can be removed as superfluous.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 September 2021, 23:22:17
Will the CAR1 Infantry Squads in CM:Mercenaries and CM:Kurita be added to the MUL?

we discussed it but I don't remember what came of it. Will have to dig up that thread again

Quote
When using the Alpha Strike Force Builder, is there a way to add the Squad 5 (CAR5) Point of Clan BA rather than the smaller version?

to have variable squad sizes, the units have to be entered separately. A five-man elemental point would be discrete from a six-man of four-man point, which would cause a lot of clutter. There might be a window for setting the default (aka primary user) size that would go into the force builder - e.g. four-man squads for IS Standard or five-man points for Elementals. But that would require explicitly labeling of every record so one could see at a glance on the search results. A change seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 03 September 2021, 18:04:07
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 03 September 2021, 23:41:55
Think there may be a typo in the (unique) variant name. Should be OTL-5M (Maki)? (Consistent with the non-unique variant name)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8283/ostsol-ost-5m-maki



Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 September 2021, 23:59:16
Yup, fixed. I always get the Ostsol and Ostroc wrong
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: KhanWick on 04 September 2021, 11:52:06
Some omissions/errors from the recent CM:Kurita and CM:Mercs additions:

Catapult (Wilson): Missing. CM:Mercs p72 states Donna Wilson's Catapult has been modified to mount exotic heat sinks (almost certainly Clantech Laser Heat Sinks, salvaged from a Clan Jade Falcon Night Gyr, or stolen from one of their depots.) Expected intro year 3052; Mercenary unique. (Unclear what model Catapult she rides, but likely CPLT-C1 or CPLT-K2. If another source can provide model, it would help refine the identifier.)

Ostsol OTL-4D (Ragnar): Should have intro year 3051, not 3050. CM:Kurita p66 states he upgraded from Jenner to Ostsol after being promoted to Kapten, an event that doesn't occur until the Satalice invasion of November 3051. In 3050 he is still a Lojtnant riding a Jenner.

Ostsol OTL-4D (Woo): Incorrectly attributed to CM:Mercs (it appears on CM:Kurita p91)

Panther PNT-CM: Missing. CM:Kurita p91 describes a Panther model mounting a CM Master; apparently not unique to be named PNT-CM rather than after the pilot. Expected intro year of 3051 and Draconis Combine Clan Invasion era and later.

Thunderbolt TDR-5SE "Toujours L'Audace": Missing. Source is CM:Mercs p37. Expected intro year 3039; Mercenary unique. (Alpha Strike info at bottom of page indicates it mounts ECM; unlike other units in the Combat Manual books that distinguish capabilities by year, the lack of year info on the Alpha Strike card but description of its actions during the War of 3039 would imply that this mech had ECM in 3039 and thus mounts a prototype Guardian ECM Suite, most likely by dropping a pair of heat sinks.)

None of the units in either book have BV values, while some (like Maki's and Ragnar's) are sufficiently described to be calculated by appropriate software.

Now if we can just get the NTNU units from TRO:3150 p222-224 added as well, that would clear out a significant portion of the MIA list. This book is even older than the Combat Manuals and much more prevalent to the upcoming ilClan era. I was surprised to see the CM additions while these remain outstanding.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 September 2021, 11:54:20
Thunderbolt TDR-5SE "Toujours L'Audace": Missing. Source is CM:Mercs p37. Expected intro year 3039; Mercenary unique. (Alpha Strike info at bottom of page indicates it mounts ECM; unlike other units in the Combat Manual books that distinguish capabilities by year, the lack of year info on the Alpha Strike card but description of its actions during the War of 3039 would imply that this mech had ECM in 3039 and thus mounts a prototype Guardian ECM Suite, most likely by dropping a pair of heat sinks.)

The stats for this Thunderbolt are in error.  He pilots a stock Thunderbolt, errata was posted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daritus1988 on 04 September 2021, 12:02:56
AS Stat Cards for the smaller APCs (Tracked APC, Wheeled APC, Hover APC) from TRO 3039 are missing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 September 2021, 12:08:04
AS Stat Cards for the smaller APCs (Tracked APC, Wheeled APC, Hover APC) from TRO 3039 are missing.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/120/armored-personnel-carrier-tracked
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/125/armored-personnel-carrier-wheeled
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/115/armored-personnel-carrier-hover

All have AS cards.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 September 2021, 12:10:24
Now if we can just get the NTNU units from TRO:3150 p222-224 added as well, that would clear out a significant portion of the MIA list. This book is even older than the Combat Manuals and much more prevalent to the upcoming ilClan era. I was surprised to see the CM additions while these remain outstanding.

These appeared because I was given express permission to put them in. No such permission exists for the 3150 units. There are at least a dozen sources I’ve gone back and entered in the past ten months or so from years ago (eg HB: Kurita from 2015) that had been overlooked.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: KhanWick on 04 September 2021, 13:54:51
The stats for this Thunderbolt are in error.  He pilots a stock Thunderbolt, errata was posted.
Why then have authors given a unique identifier to the mech for Late Succession War/Early Clan Invasion eras summarized for the book? Why was it not listed as simply TDR-5SE (or TDR-9SE in error)? The author's intent seems to be that there is something unique about his mech, whether it be ECM or something else. Perhaps it was stock TDR-5SE when listed as notable pilot in TRO:3025, and errata applies to pre-3039, but to apply a stock appellation in Late Succession War/Early Clan Invasion eras seems arbitrary.

The original errata (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/combat-manual-mercenaries/msg1753355/#msg1753355) only applied to the stats as the unit was not yet defined in MUL. Now you're saying it should apply to the unique identifier as well. That would now mean four elements of the Alpha Strike card are changing when one would have sufficed - a violation of Occam's razor. Head-scratching.

My proposal: Fix the S/M/L values from 4/5/2 to 3/3/1 (or some other appropriate combination, assuming 4/5/2 is impossible)
How errata has it: Fix S/M/L values from 4/5/2 to 3/3/1, remove ECM, add IF1*, change name
* Technically IF1 should be added in my proposal as well under assumption Toujours L'Audace retains the LRM, but there is no certainty that this is true without a record sheet or better description.

But, if the ruling is that MacAllister's Thunderbolt it is effectively no different than stock, convention follows that MUL should still add the mech and give it the same stats as the stock unit it is based upon, in the manner of units like Archer ARC-2R (Morgan) and Warhammer WHM-6K (Yorinaga). The unit has been defined with a unique identifier in a canon source - this can't be undone. If Thunderbolt TDR-5SE "Toujours L'Audace" is not added to MUL, then I'm unlikely to be the last person to point out it is named in canon but missing from MUL. This same argument for keeping the name, if not the argument for changing stats as little as possible, will possibly come up again. And you always have the Notes field to explain why the AS card they see in MUL doesn't match the stats presented in CM:Mercs, but this depends on being able to search for it.

These appeared because I was given express permission to put them in. No such permission exists for the 3150 units.
What? Permission from whom? Does CGL/Topps not grant permission to add items published in one of their own books to a website they own? I can understand a delay for external websites (like sarna.net), but six years after publication on their own site? And why only the NTNU units and not the others from the main body of TRO:3150? Does CGL/Topps for some reason not own the IP for the units on p222-224? I realize I'm new around here (but old hat to Battletech as a 32 year veteran), but this sounds like CGL is sabotaging their own product.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 September 2021, 14:06:13
It has nothing to do with IP rights. They are not being added at this time. We apologize if people find that unsatisfactory but this space is not designed for litigation of the reasoning, methodology, or speculation.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 September 2021, 15:57:53
The author's intent seems to be that there is something unique about his mech,

I was one of the writer's on the Combat Manuals, and specifically in charge of the Alpha Strike stats.
I know my own intent.  The TDR-5SE is the customization of a TDR-5S.  The ECM was a mistake, we tried to give him the upgraded TDR-7SE (that's what the stats including ECM are for) in the clan invasion era, and then realized the 7SE doesn't exist in the time period covered (7SE doesn't exist until 3067, CM's stop around 3054).  The wrong stat line was removed, leaving the TDR-7SE stats on the TDR-5SE.  There was never an ECM customized TDR-5SE.

The question was asked, it's been answered.  Please stop arguing with the answer.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 05 September 2021, 21:13:00
Era and factional pictures seem to be missing
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 September 2021, 21:37:35
must have been a temporary glitch? I'm seeing them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 05 September 2021, 21:40:42
must have been a temporary glitch? I'm seeing them

i still dont have them on my phone/ipad (mobile safari) and not seeing them on internet explorer edge on the computer.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 September 2021, 21:43:45
Chrome and Edge on my PC seem to be working fine (I cleared the cache before looking). Mobile Safari is duplicating the error on my end as well.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: OnlyAFreeBorn on 05 September 2021, 22:44:51
Hi,

I was planning out my paint scheme/faction for the Clan Command Star box and was looking up the Summoner's MUL entry. The mech is only available after the clan invasion starts according to the page: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3183/thor-summoner-prime#

Even though it's produced in 2872. This is also the case for the other configurations that I believe should be available before the clan invasion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 September 2021, 22:50:45
Hi,

I was planning out my paint scheme/faction for the Clan Command Star box and was looking up the Summoner's MUL entry. The mech is only available after the clan invasion starts according to the page: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3183/thor-summoner-prime#

Even though it's produced in 2872. This is also the case for the other configurations that I believe should be available before the clan invasion.

Pre-Clan Invasion availabilities are still very much a work in process, though one that's on our immediate radar. We'll make sure to shout loud and far once a full update goes through.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: OnlyAFreeBorn on 05 September 2021, 23:05:43
Okay, thanks! I'd thought it was just a random error/quick fix since the others in the box seemed to have accurate availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 September 2021, 23:13:34
What you're seeing is a two-part operation. Units appearing post-2900 have been completed. We're working on units appearing before 2900 right now.

We appreciate all reports - sometimes we just straight up miss stuff so you weren't wrong to check in
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 06 September 2021, 03:14:29
I think there may be a mistake in the Bane/Kraken 4.  Apparently, there are a significant number available to The Republic of the Sphere between 3080 and 3100 (Early Republic Era).  This is the only place where a non-Clan faction has access to any variant of that 'Mech and it comes and goes within a single era.  I feel that it might have been added accidentally.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 06 September 2021, 08:54:42
I think there may be a mistake in the Bane/Kraken 4.  Apparently, there are a significant number available to The Republic of the Sphere between 3080 and 3100 (Early Republic Era).  This is the only place where a non-Clan faction has access to any variant of that 'Mech and it comes and goes within a single era.  I feel that it might have been added accidentally.

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 September 2021, 21:07:37
It appears that Safari mobile has decided to not play nice with the MUL images hosted on ImgBB (that is, 95% of them). We are looking at solutions
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 07 September 2021, 12:41:10
Availability of the Stooping Hawk doesn’t exist past the Jihad. Is this in error? I know if it’s gone you will usually list extinct in those eras anyhow.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 September 2021, 13:01:26
If it still exists it’s only in the clan home worlds, which we don’t track. Will have to investigate the bears angle to see if they’re supposed to be in their OZ after 3080
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 07 September 2021, 17:36:44
If it still exists it’s only in the clan home worlds, which we don’t track. Will have to investigate the bears angle to see if they’re supposed to be in their OZ after 3080

I figured it was Grizzly like, soldiering on with whatever was left, so I’d ask
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 07 September 2021, 23:58:17
It appears that Safari mobile has decided to not play nice with the MUL images hosted on ImgBB (that is, 95% of them). We are looking at solutions

I can see the images again on mobile, however the era symbols are tiny (the look footnote sized compared to the rest of the text). Factions and sources seem to be back back to normal.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 September 2021, 00:12:09
this is definitely a Safari thing and not an MUL thing so there's not much to be done
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 08 September 2021, 03:02:56
The Koschei KSC-4I and KSC-4L, Early Republic Era have Republic of the Sphere availability.  These two variants are only available to Mercs for the rest of the modern era, whereas the 5I  is more spread around, including to the Republic already.

I believe that the 4I and 4L availability is in error.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 08 September 2021, 13:31:51
From The Price of Glory ((C) ROC 1993), chapter 28:
Quote
They had found the Star League cache under the west face of the mountain. [...] There were vehicles, most of them powered by the same sort of fusion plants that powered BattleMechs but that were rarely found in non-'Mech vehicles anymore. Grayson had seen dozens of tanks, from Vedettes to Demolishers, apparently armed and ready to roll.
(Emphasis added)

Also from chapter 28 it is obvious that the content was hidden in the cache shortly before Minoru Kurita's Helm raid and bombardment. (2788 according to First Succession War, p. 5).

Problem: According to the MUL, no Vedette and no Demolisher version existed in 2788.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maingunnery on 08 September 2021, 13:43:05
From The Price of Glory ((C) ROC 1993), chapter 28:(Emphasis added)

Also from chapter 28 it is obvious that the content was hidden in the cache shortly before Minoru Kurita's Helm raid and bombardment. (2788 according to First Succession War, p. 5).

Problem: According to the MUL, no Vedette and no Demolisher version existed in 2788.
Could also be a case of mistaken identity.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 08 September 2021, 13:48:38
Could also be a case of mistaken identity.

It's written from a narrator POV, not described by a character.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 08 September 2021, 13:56:56
The Demolisher and Vedette were both produced after the formation of Comstar in 2788.  Technical Readout 3039.  It gives a specific debut date for the Demolisher as 2803.  and the Vedette was created using ComStar electronics.
As errata isn't published for novels or FASA era products, unless TR3039 is errated, the MUL is going to stick with what it has.

This is actually distressingly common in stories, not just for FASA era novels.  Fact-checking pre-3025 references often failed, or later canon references skipped over or perhaps even intentionally retconned story references.   
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 08 September 2021, 14:04:21
So I'll go with TPoG being wrong in this case. Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 11 September 2021, 23:45:00
I know the BVs for various BA squads always default to the 4-suit value. Would it be possible to get the 5 and 6-suit BVs added to the notes, please? Especially for Clan suits?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 September 2021, 23:56:37
the BVs are entered in the extension function that creates the cards for other squad sizes. will have to see if we can get those displayed somehow...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greatclub on 12 September 2021, 02:20:07
Is the thunper Karnov an actual thing in canon? MUL lists it as unique (but with no faction) from the succession wars to the dark age, and tro:3039 calls it a myth.

While I don't know from military science, I also suspect that that kind of rapid response artillery would change things significantly. Even it the gun shook the frame apart after a couple ammo loads, everyone would be paranoid that somebody brought a flight to a fight (though training would be a pain).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 12 September 2021, 07:32:26
Maybe.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 12 September 2021, 18:47:23
something is up with the Locust 7S. other locusts, who also have max armor (i am looking at the 7V and 7V2) do not have the same armor value of 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 September 2021, 19:10:55
something is up with the Locust 7S. other locusts, who also have max armor (i am looking at the 7V and 7V2) do not have the same armor value of 3.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mycroft000 on 15 September 2021, 20:25:52
Is it possible to change the default on Elementals to 5 instead of 4?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 16 September 2021, 11:26:01
I'm pretty sure we need to use the same default for all battle armor.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 21 September 2021, 01:07:17
Rifleman 7G is available only to the RotS but by the Dark Age should also be available
to the Capellan Confederation.

It's factory World of Nanking was captured by the Capellan Confederation.
According to IlClan Recognition guide Volume 08 page 8 "Kallon executives ordered the
Nanking line to make a production run of the -7G as an
experimental platform for the Silver Bullet in 3085."
Moreover, the other 2 RotS Rifleman variants (7X and 8X) Are also Available to the Capellan in the Dark Age
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 September 2021, 06:49:42
The 7G was a limited run testbed for the silver bullet and was not in production when the Capellans took the world
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 21 September 2021, 10:21:56
The 7G was a limited run testbed for the silver bullet and was not in production when the Capellans took the world

Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 27 September 2021, 03:38:08
Not exactly an errata.

The Vixen 6 and Pendragon 3R are in the MUL thanks to record sheets fron Iron Wind Metals.
I wonder if the Thunderbolt IIC 2 can recieve the same love.

https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/downloads/battletech/record-sheets/41-thunderbolt-iic-2
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 September 2021, 07:58:46
Not exactly an errata.

The Vixen 6 and Pendragon 3R are in the MUL thanks to record sheets fron Iron Wind Metals.
I wonder if the Thunderbolt IIC 2 can recieve the same love.

https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/downloads/battletech/record-sheets/41-thunderbolt-iic-2

Already up: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5240/thunderbolt-iic-2
(unless that's not working for some reason, in which case let me know)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 27 September 2021, 11:02:26
Already up: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5240/thunderbolt-iic-2
(unless that's not working for some reason, in which case let me know)

Great thank you just the BV is missing should be 2177 according to the RS
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 27 September 2021, 17:23:12
Possible errata.
Void Caltrop is listed as Capellan (unique)  in the early republic era before getting extinct should be changed to DC (unique).
Tornado PA(L) P17 "Hurricane" is still Available to Comstar after the Jihad, shouldn't it be extinct with the rest of the Comguards?
Kage C and Infiltrator II Coral Intent are listed after the Jihad as available to their Factions but shouldn't the be extinct
like the Fa shih 2, Longinus "Hacked" and most of their XTRO contemporaries?
Is it an error or have this designs entered production later?

 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 27 September 2021, 20:00:16
I'd assume some of the XTRO units are in production even though they didn't get updated versions in TRO Prototypes. For example, the No-Dachi NDA-3X from XTRO Kurita, is available post-Jihad but wasn't in TRO Prototypes.

The Kage C fluff indicates limited production status. And given how Coral Intent is relatively similar to the Kage C, i'd imagine it is in limited production for special forces as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 28 September 2021, 03:13:38
Some BA points:
* Ravager (LRM):
Intro date 3101 but it has only dark age availability. Late republic should be added.
* Xiphos should be added to Clan Wolf according to TRO 3145 FWL page 8: "Star Captain Zetoras Ward: He was not only
the first Clan Wolf Elemental to receive a Xiphos, he demanded it. After facing the assault
suit multiple times during the invasion of the Free Worlds League in his Gnome, he was
so impressed by it that he led the assault on the production facilities on Washburn, claiming a freshly-built suit as isorla. Since then his entire
Trinary has been equipped with them."
* Possibly the grenadier should be added to the RotS. Quote from the Kopis fluff TRO 3085 page 12 "It is believed the pairing of Kopis suits with Federated Suns Grenadiers will make for a highly effective urban defense squad and plans are underway to deploy two to three squads of these mixed battle armor teams to each planetary militia in The Republic"
* Grenadier II D should be added to the FS. It's stated that the mortar version was Republic only but later in the same page it is stated that the policy has changed: "This stratagem only changed when the pact between Julian
Davion and the Republic was renewed in 3146. Having self-supporting artillery deployed by battle armor also added to the Capellans’ confusion on Marlette."
* Kishi BA was introduced  in 3105 yet still has early republic availability.
* Fenrir II was introduced  in 3119 yet still has early republic availability.
* Fusilier was introduced  in 3121 yet still has early republic availability.
* Simian (base) and Grenadier II (base) lacks availability (I know it's unimportant, just to be consistant with the other base versions of BA)
* Nighthawk PAL There is some indication that it should be available to mercenaries during and perhaps after the jihad era.
Quote from TRO 3058U: "Small numbers of Nighthawks captured from the Word
of Blake have started to surface on the arms market. While the
House militaries continue to prefer their home-grown battle
armor designs, a number of mercenaries, private security
forces, and even militia have snapped up all they can get."
and the notable pilot is from the 21th Centauri Lancers
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 September 2021, 11:47:56
Possible errata.
Void Caltrop is listed as Capellan (unique)  in the early republic era before getting extinct should be changed to DC (unique).

Fixed

Quote
Tornado PA(L) P17 "Hurricane" is still Available to Comstar after the Jihad, shouldn't it be extinct with the rest of the Comguards?

The source and internal notes indicate it shouldn't be around, especially at general faction availability. Will look into this

Quote
Kage C and Infiltrator II Coral Intent are listed after the Jihad as available to their Factions but shouldn't the be extinct
like the Fa shih 2, Longinus "Hacked" and most of their XTRO contemporaries?
Is it an error or have this designs entered production later?

It's not 100% definitive that all XTRO entries go extinct either immediately after the Jihad or after.

Kage C - In production by DC through at least 3150
Infilitrator II Coral Intent - In production by FS through at least 3150

Some BA points:
* Ravager (LRM):
Intro date 3101 but it has only dark age availability. Late republic should be added.

So it should. fixed

Quote
* Xiphos should be added to Clan Wolf according to TRO 3145 FWL page 8: "Star Captain Zetoras Ward: He was not only
the first Clan Wolf Elemental to receive a Xiphos, he demanded it. After facing the assault
suit multiple times during the invasion of the Free Worlds League in his Gnome, he was
so impressed by it that he led the assault on the production facilities on Washburn, claiming a freshly-built suit as isorla. Since then his entire
Trinary has been equipped with them."

Will look into this

Quote
* Possibly the grenadier should be added to the RotS. Quote from the Kopis fluff TRO 3085 page 12 "It is believed the pairing of Kopis suits with Federated Suns Grenadiers will make for a highly effective urban defense squad and plans are underway to deploy two to three squads of these mixed battle armor teams to each planetary militia in The Republic"

Plans =/= actual deployment. Will investigate

Quote
* Grenadier II D should be added to the FS. It's stated that the mortar version was Republic only but later in the same page it is stated that the policy has changed: "This stratagem only changed when the pact between Julian
Davion and the Republic was renewed in 3146. Having self-supporting artillery deployed by battle armor also added to the Capellans’ confusion on Marlette."

Perhaps. May not rise to wide enough deployment. Will investigate

All standard, non-unique omni configs are generally considered available to all the factions that possess the <Base> unit. Added

Quote
* Kishi BA was introduced  in 3105 yet still has early republic availability.
* Fenrir II was introduced  in 3119 yet still has early republic availability.
* Fusilier was introduced  in 3121 yet still has early republic availability.

fixed

Quote
* Simian (base) and Grenadier II (base) lacks availability (I know it's unimportant, just to be consistant with the other base versions of BA)

fixed

Quote
* Nighthawk PAL There is some indication that it should be available to mercenaries during and perhaps after the jihad era.
Quote from TRO 3058U: "Small numbers of Nighthawks captured from the Word
of Blake have started to surface on the arms market. While the
House militaries continue to prefer their home-grown battle
armor designs, a number of mercenaries, private security
forces, and even militia have snapped up all they can get."
and the notable pilot is from the 21th Centauri Lancers

under investigation
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 28 September 2021, 12:24:37
I know there's no record sheet yet, but 3085supp actually lists the BVs for the Manta and Moray subs. Any chance those numbers could get added to their entries?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 September 2021, 12:39:03
Will inquire
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 28 September 2021, 14:36:08
Sorry for the earlier BA dump  ;)
I must say I do have some questions about Taurian BA Availability, It seems to be extremely wide and advanced for a periphery state without an IS backer:
 *Gray death Scout available as early as the civil war when it was a rather new and advanced tech wonder but than unavailable after the Jihad? Is there a source that explains this?
* Infiltrator Mk I same thing. Available As early as the civil war when it was a new and than going extinct in the dark age (yea it's rather primitive by this era perhaps even for a periphery power)
* Infiltrator Mk II is available to the Taurian since It's inception!
Here is a quote from TRO 3058U: "Still in short supply—by all accounts the DMI and MIIO combined have taken delivery on almost forty percent of the suits manufactured throughout the years, while losses incurred during the FedCom Civil War accounted for a not-insignificant number of suits" it seems odd The Taurians managed to get their hands on a substantial number of these suits.
* Same thing with Purifier adaptive BA a suit that uses extremely advanced mimetic armor although it can be argued they got some from the WoB.
* Grenadier BA the same argument (Base, SRM/flamer, SRM/LRR, SRM/SL, SRM/TAG versions) available since it's inception
The FS are hostile at best to the Taurians. I am not sure it's exactly errata just seems very odd to me.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 28 September 2021, 17:01:07
Gray Death Strike BA Standard and HarJel are listed as 1.5 tons since these are medium BA they should get a diet to 1 ton like the prototype version.
I also believe that the Harjel version is mixed tech.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Negatorxx on 28 September 2021, 21:17:38
The MUL lists the Badger C as only available to wolfs dragoons, starting in the clan invasion era.

TP: Tokasha has the Badger C available to Clan Hells Horses, 2900s. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 September 2021, 21:25:06
Some preinvasion clan units are still being worked out
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Waritec on 01 October 2021, 04:21:17
AS cards for Catapult "Butterbee 2"  and  Vulcan (John Carras) from AS lance packs both have 1 PV cost.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 October 2021, 07:54:35
AS cards for Catapult "Butterbee 2"  and  Vulcan (John Carras) from AS lance packs both have 1 PV cost.

Boy, a real bargain!
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 October 2021, 23:12:48
images are currently busted. it's on the host's end so we just have to wait for them to fix it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 16 October 2021, 17:18:49
Noticed the Victor 9K has IlClan availability for some reason.
As i understand, the era isn't supposed to be populated yet, so is this an error? Or was there some product that i missed but firmly places the Victor 9K to FWL hands in the IlClan era?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3411/victor-vtr-9k
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 October 2021, 17:54:48
Noticed the Victor 9K has IlClan availability for some reason.
As i understand, the era isn't supposed to be populated yet, so is this an error? Or was there some product that i missed but firmly places the Victor 9K to FWL hands in the IlClan era?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3411/victor-vtr-9k

Looks like the Dark Age FWL availability ended up wandering over to the ilClan era instead.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 17 October 2021, 18:23:55
The Huntsman. The Smoke Jaguars don't have it according to MUL but Battle of Tukayyid indicates the Smoke Jags use it. This does goes other way too though, for example the Battle Cobra isn't available for the Jade Falcons in BoT but is listed for them in MUL.
Stuff to be tweaked or is this one of those cases, like the Combat Manuals, where MUL and books use different criteria for availability?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 18 October 2021, 05:58:37
Clan Wolf in Exile has the Loki MK II (Base) listed but no variants, guessing this is an oversite?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 October 2021, 07:15:38
The Hierofalcon prime is listed as standard while the Ion Sparrow and Jade Phoenix primes are listed as advanced, but i don't think either of the latter actually have any tech that has advanced classification in 3140s.
Unless I'm blind or something...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 October 2021, 07:47:22
The Huntsman. The Smoke Jaguars don't have it according to MUL but Battle of Tukayyid indicates the Smoke Jags use it. This does goes other way too though, for example the Battle Cobra isn't available for the Jade Falcons in BoT but is listed for them in MUL.
Stuff to be tweaked or is this one of those cases, like the Combat Manuals, where MUL and books use different criteria for availability?

I believe the Huntsman is an error in Tukayyid, I am still in the process of verifying that for errata to Tukayyid.
Battle Cobra didn't become available to the Jade Falcons until after Tukayyid, after the clashes between the Steel Vipers and Jade Falcons presumably.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 October 2021, 08:43:18
The Hierofalcon prime is listed as standard while the Ion Sparrow and Jade Phoenix primes are listed as advanced, but i don't think either of the latter actually have any tech that has advanced classification in 3140s.
Unless I'm blind or something...

something something partial wing. the hierofalcon is probably the one in error
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 18 October 2021, 09:03:54
I believe the Huntsman is an error in Tukayyid, I am still in the process of verifying that for errata to Tukayyid.
Battle Cobra didn't become available to the Jade Falcons until after Tukayyid, after the clashes between the Steel Vipers and Jade Falcons presumably.
Ah, i see. While the Jags and Nova Cats do clash, i have to admit i can't recall seeing any mentions of the Jags using Huntsmans.
And i just realized i never checked the Battle Cobra availability pre-Clan Invasion from other sources, and MUL doesn't have that yet.

something something partial wing. the hierofalcon is probably the one in error
This would make so much sense... I somehow managed to think stuff, such as partial wings, in BMM is all Standard Tech, even though that isn't the case.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 19 October 2021, 11:22:38
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7919/elemental-battle-armor-fire-base

The Elemental (Fire) has some weirdness going on. The AP Gauss Rifle variant is available to the Scorpion Empire and Escorpion Imperio but the other Fire-variants (Flamer and MicroPL) aren't. Uncertain which is correct.

Also, some standard Elemental variants lack Scorpion Empire though they list Escorpion Imperio for Dark Age section.

And is it correct the Wolf's Dragoons have access only to the original Elemental armaments (MG, Flamer, Laser) but not later configurations?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 October 2021, 11:42:32
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7919/elemental-battle-armor-fire-base

The Elemental (Fire) has some weirdness going on. The AP Gauss Rifle variant is available to the Scorpion Empire and Escorpion Imperio but the other Fire-variants (Flamer and MicroPL) aren't. Uncertain which is correct.

Also, some standard Elemental variants lack Scorpion Empire though they list Escorpion Imperio for Dark Age section.

And is it correct the Wolf's Dragoons have access only to the original Elemental armaments (MG, Flamer, Laser) but not later configurations?

Scorpions having the Elemental (Fire) was in error. Fixed.

Everything else should be consistent now. All configurations are available to all users of the base chassis.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 19 October 2021, 11:43:41
Neat, cheers!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2021, 12:05:21
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1384/hankyu-arctic-cheetah-prime
The Clan Coyote tries to claim they have these during the Early Republic era.

Other configs don't seem to have issues.

EDIT A weird thing:
Searching for BattleMechs with Dark Age availability for Escorpion Imperio gives count as 355.
But their faction list gives 'Mech count as 352 for the same era.
It seems the culprits are Dire Wolf T, Kingfisher T, and Nova T, somehow.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=92&AvailableEras=16

http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=92&EraId=16
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 October 2021, 12:33:45
Good catch. They should line up now. Dire Wolf, Kingfisher, and Nova T all shouldn't have been available to the Imperio in the first place--just the Scorpion Empire.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2021, 14:26:30
Right, more Scorpion stuff. While all Omni configurations are usually available to everyone, does this really include the Nova R? Because Re-engineered lasers. As it is, the Nova R is the sole Scorpion Empire unit to carry those, and the tech doesn't seem terribly wide-spread in the Inner Sphere, so the Scorps having that seems especially odd.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8169/black-hawk-nova-r

Also, the Tatsu F has too early introduction date, RELs were introduced in 3120s.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6811/tatsu-mik-of
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 October 2021, 15:07:14
this is worth discussing - i'll bring it up with the Brain Trust
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 October 2021, 15:09:36
If it helps, someone noted that Scorpion Seekers could be a source for them. (I completely forgot those exists.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 October 2021, 15:47:43
Any thoughts on the Wolf in Exile's access to the Loki MK II?

Seems odd they have access to the base but none of the variants.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 October 2021, 16:06:41
this has been brought up but a decision has not been made yet
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 20 October 2021, 16:30:32
Cheers  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 20 October 2021, 21:22:37
Very minor and insignificant but Kokou Defense Tank (XL) has movement ‘6” T’ where all other vees have a lowercase letter for signifying their movement type
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 October 2021, 16:25:59
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8211/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-g
Erroneously labeled mixed, is pure ClanTech.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 October 2021, 16:57:02
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7791/black-knight-bl-18-knt
Introduction date, 3130, for this Black Knight seems questionable. For one thing, it only has Dark Age (ie 3132 onward) availability, and the way RG12 describes it, it sounds like the 18-KNT came into existence after the Republic was splintered. So perhaps 3140 or so would be more correct date?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 21 October 2021, 20:38:49
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7791/black-knight-bl-18-knt
Introduction date, 3130, for this Black Knight seems questionable. For one thing, it only has Dark Age (ie 3132 onward) availability, and the way RG12 describes it, it sounds like the 18-KNT came into existence after the Republic was splintered. So perhaps 3140 or so would be more correct date?

Rereading the text, it seems to state that the 'Mech was first produced during the Republic's existence. The splintering of the Republic forced them to find a new supplied for the ClanSpec lasers, though.

Adding Late Republic avails.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 October 2021, 20:51:25
Rereading the text, it seems to state that the 'Mech was first produced during the Republic's existence. The splintering of the Republic forced them to find a new supplied for the ClanSpec lasers, though.

Adding Late Republic avails.
Ah, re-reading the text, certainly seems so. At first i assumed they just built the BLK-NT series but loss of supply lead to creating new variant.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 October 2021, 00:25:55
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8263/crusader-crd-9s
Role: None doesn't seem correct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 October 2021, 00:39:40
sniper

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 October 2021, 14:58:29
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2004/man-o-war-gargoyle-c

Has wrong BV, should be 2417, per Battle of Tukayyid Supplemental record sheet and TRO Clan Invasion entry (pg62-63).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 23 October 2021, 07:43:07
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2004/man-o-war-gargoyle-c

Has wrong BV, should be 2417, per Battle of Tukayyid Supplemental record sheet and TRO Clan Invasion entry (pg62-63).

The record sheets are incorrect; 2,437 is the proper Battle Value.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 23 October 2021, 10:52:28
The record sheets are incorrect; 2,437 is the proper Battle Value.
Pretty sure 2437 is result of the Gargoyle C having ER small laser erroneously. It should have 3x a-pod (and FF slots in arms), as it originally had, and nowadays corrected as seen in TRO Clan Invasion.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mutantsix on 23 October 2021, 18:32:54
The record sheet for the J. Edgar (TAG) has a BV of 564 whereas the MUL has 489.....which one is correct?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Krell on 24 October 2021, 00:21:16
The fluff text for the TRO Clan Invasion details page seen here: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/436/technical-readout-clan-invasion has a typo

Quote
On 27 September 3048, the ComStar Explorer Corps JumpShip Outbound Lightstumbled onto the Clan Homeworlds...

Needs a space between "Light" and "stumbled."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 24 October 2021, 09:56:17
Noticed that the Raven 3L and 4L have Striker and Scout roles, respectively. That seems somewhat odd, shouldn't the 3L be a scout? Older version of Campaign Operations notes the Raven as a scout specifically.
Same applies to the 1X, and perhaps even the 4LC (doesn't have probe but pretty much the point man for a C3 unit).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 October 2021, 10:31:44
Noticed that the Raven 3L and 4L have Striker and Scout roles, respectively. That seems somewhat odd, shouldn't the 3L be a scout? Older version of Campaign Operations notes the Raven as a scout specifically.
Same applies to the 1X, and perhaps even the 4LC (doesn't have probe but pretty much the point man for a C3 unit).

Very true.  Changes made.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 October 2021, 23:27:17
Iron Cheetah seems to have ilClan availability. not sure if thats meant to be seen yet.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 October 2021, 23:35:31
it is
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 October 2021, 23:36:40
it is

sweet. truly moving forward
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 October 2021, 23:41:52
in very limited circumstances. we ran into the timing problem that the interest expressed in the recguides for the Iron Cheetah wouldn't have seen delivery until after the conquest of terra. there may yet be more added (eg we who do the lists are not privy to the future of the jags). we'll all have to wait and see together

we only know slightly more than the public. we await the shape of things moving into the mid 3150s as eagerly as everyone else
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Max Headromm on 01 November 2021, 03:37:45
The Skill Calculation Tool (http://masterunitlist.info/Tools/Skill) is not up to date. It uses the old, un-errata'ed values for calculating BV.
According to the errata document from June 2021, changing the skill values to 3/4 should increase BV by 1.32. The calculator increases BV according to the old formula by factor 1.38.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 01 November 2021, 18:11:40
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2664/raven-rvn-3l
TRO 3050U (pg 30) notes that the Raven was exported to the Draconis Combine as well as the Free Worlds League. Unless the intent is that this refers to the 3M model (which lacks fluff), then perhaps the 3L availability should be amended to include the Draconis Combine in Clan Invasion and/or Civil War eras?

Though i cannot say i've ever seen anything to indicate the Dracs ever made use of the Raven except this line.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 November 2021, 18:17:25
The Skill Calculation Tool (http://masterunitlist.info/Tools/Skill) is not up to date. It uses the old, un-errata'ed values for calculating BV.
According to the errata document from June 2021, changing the skill values to 3/4 should increase BV by 1.32. The calculator increases BV according to the old formula by factor 1.38.

I will bring this to the Brain Trust, thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Zeruel on 01 November 2021, 22:26:04
should the faction availability for the Warhawk F list the Raven Alliance in the Dark Ages? all other configs only have the Scorpions listed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 November 2021, 22:36:24
No, it should not. What happened was I had to remove like eight things for three eras for each variant and on that one I nicked the Impreio instead of the Ravens

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 November 2021, 12:59:26
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2664/raven-rvn-3l
TRO 3050U (pg 30) notes that the Raven was exported to the Draconis Combine as well as the Free Worlds League. Unless the intent is that this refers to the 3M model (which lacks fluff)...

That's the intent, yeah.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 13:14:05
Question, I have a doubt, the Longbow OW2 and 10K designs are named as they are still operational in the Periphery and that the 10K is a design that appears in the Periphery behind Lyra's back (The UCA / 20 version), these designs should be categorized as General Periphery or other category

Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 November 2021, 13:38:04
Question, I have a doubt, the Longbow OW2 and 10K designs are named as they are still operational in the Periphery and that the 10K is a design that appears in the Periphery behind Lyra's back (The UCA / 20 version), these designs should be categorized as General Periphery or other category

Thank you in advance

0W2: the text her is somewhat vague, which allows for a range of interpretation. The 0W2 was made to follow the 0W's extant availabilities, while the 8C was made to follow the 7Q's. This means the more durable 7Q/8C has persisted in Periphery hands, while the more fragile 0W/0W2 have either been lost to attrition or upgraded via the 10C refit package.

10K: The Periphery General faction felt too generalized for a BattleMech that mainly appears in the Lyran Periphery. If we one day have a Timbuktu Collection/Rim Territories/Minor Periphery faction, the 10K will end up on it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 13:59:37
0W2: the text her is somewhat vague, which allows for a range of interpretation. The 0W2 was made to follow the 0W's extant availabilities, while the 8C was made to follow the 7Q's. This means the more durable 7Q/8C has persisted in Periphery hands, while the more fragile 0W/0W2 have either been lost to attrition or upgraded via the 10C refit package.

10K: The Periphery General faction felt too generalized for a BattleMech that mainly appears in the Lyran Periphery. If we one day have a Timbuktu Collection/Rim Territories/Minor Periphery faction, the 10K will end up on it.

Thanks for the prompt response Greekfire, regarding your answer it would be said that the OW and OW2 versions are close to their disappearance due to being modernized or taken to a Refit modification perhaps like the OH or even the 10K.

Since we are and continuing with the way of saying things about the Shadow Hawk IIC it says more or less than the basic models like the basic one and version 2 as they are very widespread in the Inner Sphere, what does it cover? To the Successor States? Or does it also include Mercs and Minor Factions?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 November 2021, 16:52:50
Quote
The Shadow Hawk IIC has proliferated widely in the Inner Sphere. The original has been supplemented by myriad variants, but it is still common.

It's Inner Sphere General. The Inner Sphere General list page tells you what that includes.

Quote
Star League: Capellan Confederation, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth.

Early Succession War: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth.

Late Succession War - LosTech: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth.

Late Succession War - Renaissance: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Rasalhague Republic, Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth, St. Ives Compact.

Clan Invasion: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Commonwealth, Federated Suns, Free Rasalhague Republic, Free Worlds League, Lyran Alliance, Lyran Commonwealth, St. Ives Compact, Star League (Second), Word of Blake.

Civil War: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Commonwealth, Federated Suns, Free Rasalhague Republic, Free Worlds League, Lyran Alliance, St. Ives Compact, Star League (Second), Word of Blake.

Jihad: Capellan Confederation, ComStar, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Filtvelt Coalition, Free Rasalhague Republic, Free Worlds League, Lyran Alliance, Word of Blake.

Republic: Capellan Confederation, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League breakaway states, Lyran Commonwealth, Republic of the Sphere.

Dark Age: Capellan Confederation, Draconis Combine, Federated Suns, Free Worlds League (and its various break away states), Lyran Commonwealth, Republic of the Sphere.

If you don't see something on that list for that era, or isn't given a specific mention (like Mercs), it doesn't have an access level high enough to be worth noting.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 02 November 2021, 17:06:09
It's Inner Sphere General. The Inner Sphere General list page tells you what that includes.

If you don't see something on that list for that era, or isn't given a specific mention (like Mercs), it doesn't have an access level high enough to be worth noting.


Thanks again for the prompt response, I was doubting who it was and who was not, everything clarified
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 02 November 2021, 18:48:42
Hello,

I performed a unit search with the search filters (link (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&SubTypes=45&Eras=11&Eras=255&AvailableEras=255&AvailableEras=256)):

Type = BattleMech
Subtype = OmniMech
Production Era = Early (1) and Late (2) Succession Wars
Availability = Early (1) and Late (2) Succession Wars

At least six OmniMechs did not appear, 3x 3050 designs and 3x 3058 designs - The Summoner, the Fire Moth, the Kit Fox, the Cauldron-Born, the Nobori-Nin, and the Hankyu.

Thanks!

S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 November 2021, 19:00:05
Clan units that debuted prior to 2901 have no pre invasion availability yet. It’s in the hopper
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 November 2021, 20:52:44
messed around with this a bit.

You generally shouldn't use production era unless you specifically want units produced during that time. Doing it with availability era causes problems. Note the difference

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&SubTypes=45&AvailableEras=255&AvailableEras=256


Ok, never mind. I'm dumb - I didn't notice the offset in production (ESW/LSW-LT) vs availability (LSW-LT/LSW-R). The Hankyu, Cauldron-Born, and nobori-nin specifically aren't showing up because they're late succession wars - renaissance products. You're not asking for mechs from that time in your production search.

the classic 3050 ones aren't showing up because they don't have availability assigned pre-3050
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 03 November 2021, 07:58:32
messed around with this a bit.

You generally shouldn't use production era unless you specifically want units produced during that time. Doing it with availability era causes problems. Note the difference

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Types=18&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&SubTypes=45&AvailableEras=255&AvailableEras=256


Ok, never mind. I'm dumb - I didn't notice the offset in production (ESW/LSW-LT) vs availability (LSW-LT/LSW-R). The Hankyu, Cauldron-Born, and nobori-nin specifically aren't showing up because they're late succession wars - renaissance products. You're not asking for mechs from that time in your production search.

the classic 3050 ones aren't showing up because they don't have availability assigned pre-3050

I think I understand. Are you saying the Hankyu (3037) was rarely deployed in the Clan Homeworlds before the REVIVAL Trials, while the Cauldron-Born (3047) and the Nobori-Nin (3049) were introduced so close to the Invasion, that all three effectively debuted in Draconis Combine space? And/or maybe without knowing Outbound Light was about to arrive, they were too rare because their production had yet to be ramped up?

A lot of scenarios could explain their absence from the MUL before 3050. Thanks Sartis!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 November 2021, 08:03:29
I think I understand. Are you saying the Hankyu (3037) was rarely deployed in the Clan Homeworlds before the REVIVAL Trials, while the Cauldron-Born (3047) and the Nobori-Nin (3049) were introduced so close to the Invasion, that all three effectively debuted in Draconis Combine space? And/or maybe without knowing Outbound Light was about to arrive, they were too rare because their production had yet to be ramped up?

A lot of scenarios could explain their absence from the MUL before 3050. Thanks Sartis!

He's saying you searched for units with
Production Era = Early (1) and Late (2) Succession Wars
But you selected Late Succession Wars - LosTech (-3019), and didn't include Late Succession Wars - Rennaisance (3020-3049).  Therefore your search excluded any units that had an intro date of 3020-3049.
Hankyu, Cauldron-Born and Nobori-nin have availabilities listed for Late Succession Wars- Renaissance.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 November 2021, 08:23:00
Essentially you’re asking the MUL to display units that only existed before those three were introduced. If you add Late Succession Wars - Renaissance to the production era query they’ll appear.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 November 2021, 11:59:50
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6401/avalanche-avl-1or

The Avalanche R and N configs are labeled as Advanced, but i don't think they have anything that isn't Standard/TL stuff by 3133.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 03 November 2021, 17:06:09
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6401/avalanche-avl-1or

The Avalanche R and N configs are labeled as Advanced, but i don't think they have anything that isn't Standard/TL stuff by 3133.

You are correct. Latest thing that switched to Standard/TL was Mixed Technology itself, and even that was ~3114. I've updated both to be Standard.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 03 November 2021, 22:10:21
He's saying you searched for units with
Production Era = Early (1) and Late (2) Succession Wars
But you selected Late Succession Wars - LosTech (-3019), and didn't include Late Succession Wars - Rennaisance (3020-3049).  Therefore your search excluded any units that had an intro date of 3020-3049.
Hankyu, Cauldron-Born and Nobori-nin have availabilities listed for Late Succession Wars- Renaissance.

Essentially you’re asking the MUL to display units that only existed before those three were introduced. If you add Late Succession Wars - Renaissance to the production era query they’ll appear.

Sorry for wasting your time with those three, I thought I had the right filters. I’ll try to be more careful! Thanks
S.gage
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 04 November 2021, 09:23:36
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=avatar
The Avatar has some inconsistent availabilities depending on the era.
For example, during the Clan Invasion, the Kell Hounds, Wolf's Dragoons and mercs have access to the Avatar primary and A configurations, but not the B or later ones, even those debuting in 3056.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7926/hatamoto-kaze-htm-27v2
The Hatamoto-kaze 27V2 is an odd case of "3150NTNU" 'Mech being listed in MUL even though it doesn't have record sheet, unlike the few released via IWM. Is this on purpose? Should it be hidden from public?
It is harmless to be sure, just wondering because it is an oddity.


Also, is there improvements planned to mobile version of MUL? In practice i always end up toggling desktop version, though on positive note that feels quite usable on phone.
Specific issues:
Searching lacks filters beyond "basic" and technology.
Inability to sort faction lists by name or anything else.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 04 November 2021, 17:20:37
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3381/valkyrie-vlk-qw5
BV needs to be corrected to account for errata:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/msg276085/#msg276085

I get 701BV in SSW after matching errata.

EDIT Right, figures i forgot something latest normal release, 0.7.6.

Xotl: Please include your SSW version number for reports like these.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 04 November 2021, 20:56:58
I've moved on to the Jihad era rabbit hole of TRO/production research, and I think I found the following errata...

Clint: Looks like the following two Clint models might have WOB availability on the wrong variant?
CLNT-3-3T: only has Taurian availability during Jihad era, but variant was (presumably) supplied by WOB [TR3050U]
CLNT-6S: has both Lyran and WOB availability during Jihad era, but variant was only produced at Defiance-Furillo (not WOB-controlled Hesperus II)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/649/clint-clnt-3-3t
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/651/clint-clnt-6s

Legionnaire LGN-1X: extinct in all eras. It is a prototype variant so perhaps it should be Fed Suns + Unique during the Jihad era? [TR3075]
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1862/legionnaire-lgn-1x

Trebuchet TBT-3C: should this be extinct in LSW thru Civil War eras? TR3050U calls it as such in the Variants description.
(Happy for it to be otherwise, though, as it makes a nice Tukayyid campaign addition...)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3295/trebuchet-tbt-3c

Flashman FLS-9B: Should Intro date be 3068 or 3070? Latter is consistent with Intro date of all the other WOB models produced at Defiance-Hesperus during Jihad (including sister model FLS-9M).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1125/flashman-fls-9b

Ostscout OTT-10CS: This should probably have availability for FRR during Jihad era and likely Rasalhague Dominion during Early Republic era (rather than extinction), according to Variant description for OTT-11J in TR3085 (and production at Odin Mfg in Obj: Clans, p.36)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2364/ostscout-ott-10cs

Archer ARC-2Rb: I think this should have WOB availability during Jihad era, according to Rec Guide 10 (p.6)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/75/archer-arc-2rb

Wolverine WVR-9W and WVR-9W2: Something seems off in the timing of Intro dates relative to what is described in the -9W2 fluff in TR3085, so I am not sure exactly what the correct errata is. The current Intro dates are 3077 for the WOB -9W and 3084 for the DCMS -9W2, but TRO lists the (WOB-controlled) LAW-Dieron destroyed in 3077, and the -9W2 as first a factory/field refit created towards the end of the Jihad (and used during OP: SCOUR) and then produced from 3084 forward. It doesn't seem that the "field refit" referred to in the fluff would be the -9W either, because that variant has C3i.
My guess would be:
WVR-9W: Intro date < 3077 (i.e., before fall of Dieron)
WVR-9W2: Intro date 3077 or 3078
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3583/wolverine-wvr-9w
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3584/wolverine-wvr-9w2

Tamerlane Strike Sled (flamer) and Strike Sled 2: Based on their record sheets, I think both of these should have Tech = Introductory?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3156/tamerlane-strike-sled-flamer
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3159/tamerlane-strike-sled-2

JI-100 Transportable FRU: Should this be a support vehicle rather than a combat vehicle? Seems like it based on the order it appears in TR:3085, and based on classification of related JI-50.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1706/ji-100-transportable-field-repair-unit-standard

Condor Hover Tank (Upgrade) (Laser): This has wider availability than the standard Condor (Upgrade), but fluff in TR3075 suggests they should probably have the same availabilities since both are produced/sold at the same place (and fluff seems consistent with either one).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/684/condor-heavy-hover-tank-upgrade-laser



Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 November 2021, 23:23:13
Oh hey, welcome back. I'll address the easy stuff here and then we'll have to stew on some of the others. These were drawn up quite a long time ago so some searching of the email archives will probably be necessary


CLNT-3-3T: only has Taurian availability during Jihad era, but variant was (presumably) supplied by WOB [TR3050U]

Not where they got them from. It's correct as-is. 6U is worth a look

Quote
Legionnaire LGN-1X: extinct in all eras. It is a prototype variant so perhaps it should be Fed Suns + Unique during the Jihad era? [TR3075]
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1862/legionnaire-lgn-1x

yeah, seems that way.

"the idea was scrapped after the LGN-1X prototypes suffered numerous catastrophic systems failures" - they would have to exist in limited numbers to have the problems

Quote
Trebuchet TBT-3C: should this be extinct in LSW thru Civil War eras? TR3050U calls it as such in the Variants description.
(Happy for it to be otherwise, though, as it makes a nice Tukayyid campaign addition...)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3295/trebuchet-tbt-3c

Looks like Wolfnet didn't know about ComStar's stash

Quote
Flashman FLS-9B: Should Intro date be 3068 or 3070? Latter is consistent with Intro date of all the other WOB models produced at Defiance-Hesperus during Jihad (including sister model FLS-9M).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1125/flashman-fls-9b

hmmm. 3068 would be a neat trick as the wobbies were only raiding the planet at the time.

Quote
Ostscout OTT-10CS: This should probably have availability for FRR during Jihad era and likely Rasalhague Dominion during Early Republic era (rather than extinction), according to Variant description for OTT-11J in TR3085 (and production at Odin Mfg in Obj: Clans, p.36)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2364/ostscout-ott-10cs

this has merit

Quote
Archer ARC-2Rb: I think this should have WOB availability during Jihad era, according to Rec Guide 10 (p.6)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/75/archer-arc-2rb

Sneaky insert

Quote
Wolverine WVR-9W and WVR-9W2: Something seems off in the timing of Intro dates relative to what is described in the -9W2 fluff in TR3085, so I am not sure exactly what the correct errata is. The current Intro dates are 3077 for the WOB -9W and 3084 for the DCMS -9W2, but TRO lists the (WOB-controlled) LAW-Dieron destroyed in 3077, and the -9W2 as first a factory/field refit created towards the end of the Jihad (and used during OP: SCOUR) and then produced from 3084 forward. It doesn't seem that the "field refit" referred to in the fluff would be the -9W either, because that variant has C3i.
My guess would be:
WVR-9W: Intro date < 3077 (i.e., before fall of Dieron)
WVR-9W2: Intro date 3077 or 3078
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3583/wolverine-wvr-9w
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3584/wolverine-wvr-9w2

There seems to be a discrepancy. Will consult.

Quote
Tamerlane Strike Sled (flamer) and Strike Sled 2: Based on their record sheets, I think both of these should have Tech = Introductory?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3156/tamerlane-strike-sled-flamer
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3159/tamerlane-strike-sled-2

Indeed so. Fixed

Quote
JI-100 Transportable FRU: Should this be a support vehicle rather than a combat vehicle? Seems like it based on the order it appears in TR:3085, and based on classification of related JI-50.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1706/ji-100-transportable-field-repair-unit-standard

The record sheet and design both are for a combat vehicle so would have to be redesigned.

Quote
Condor Hover Tank (Upgrade) (Laser): This has wider availability than the standard Condor (Upgrade), but fluff in TR3075 suggests they should probably have the same availabilities since both are produced/sold at the same place (and fluff seems consistent with either one).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/684/condor-heavy-hover-tank-upgrade-laser

added to the consult list
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 05 November 2021, 16:55:37
Awesome, and thanks for all the clarifications!

Looks like Wolfnet didn't know about ComStar's stash
Wouldn't be the first time they misjudged troop strength in the Sol system...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 06 November 2021, 18:14:43
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7417/panther-pnt-9alag

Missing a role. Probably a Brawler like other Panthers?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 06 November 2021, 20:35:14
Hello Sorry for the annoying but checking the list of possible mechs in the Pirate List I found that they have access to the Shadow Hawk IIC 8 and the Cougar, check the fluff of both mechs in the last two Rec Guide and do not mention anything that there were copies in Pirate hands.
In the case of the Shadow Hawk IIC it says that it is widely distributed throughout the Inner Sphere and in the second case that it is popular with the mercs.
But I didn't see any mention of pirates. Is it a mistake? or are they more widely distributed than mentioned?
From already thank you very much
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 November 2021, 21:02:10
The cougar C was inadvertently given pirate availability instead of merc. This has been corrected. I’m seeing no pirate access to any variant of the shad iic

ok for whatever reason the IIC 9 wasn't showing up from my phone. Seems weird but I'll inquire
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 November 2021, 21:21:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7417/panther-pnt-9alag

Missing a role. Probably a Brawler like other Panthers?

The additional speed moves it more into the Striker template. Will have to ask
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 06 November 2021, 21:56:53
The cougar C was inadvertently given pirate availability instead of merc. This has been corrected. I’m seeing no pirate access to any variant of the shad iic

ok for whatever reason the IIC 9 wasn't showing up from my phone. Seems weird but I'll inquire

Thanks for the prompt reply, from what I was looking at figure the Shadow Hawk IIC as used by the Republic, Pirates and the NFWL in Dark Age
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 November 2021, 10:01:07
The pirate tag comes from its use by the Republic splinter groups and Spirit Cats who, for all intents and purposes, were very pirate-y during this period
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 08 November 2021, 10:17:32
The pirate tag comes from its use by the Republic splinter groups and Spirit Cats who, for all intents and purposes, were very pirate-y during this period

Ahh that explains a lot, thanks for the answer Sartris
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 08 November 2021, 10:54:26
What is the actual criterion for a unit to be classed as unique? I have found an ASF variant numbering six fighters classed as unique while a 'mech type consisting of two units lacks that distinction. So before reporting false errors, does "unique" actually mean "only one", or is there a threshold > 1?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 08 November 2021, 11:12:38
Our standard requirement for faction availability is that the faction presumably has multiple of that unit in multiple separate regiments/clusters.
Unique means he doesn’t meet that requirement, but it only exists in numbers that don’t meet that requirement, so we list it for the faction but tag it as unique.

It could mean there is only one, it could mean there are multiples, but all are in a single regiment/cluster, or it could mean it’s in multiple regiments/clusters but none have more than one.  (Don’t know that we’ve actually used that last definition, but it’s possible).

So if mercenary regiment X is the only regiment that has a particular model, we could mark it as unique even if they have a dozen.

It means look up the unit’s specific details before using it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 November 2021, 12:19:22
in practice it's been used on anywhere between a single modified unit all the way up to a run of a dozen prototypes. they are by and large pretty short-lived
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 08 November 2021, 14:38:38
ok, so for an example the Burke II (2 frames built starting in 2776, both fought and were destroyed together at the same site and time during the SLDF liberation) would merit a "U", I presume.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 November 2021, 14:50:23
ok, so for an example the Burke II (2 frames built starting in 2776, both fought and were destroyed together at the same site and time during the SLDF liberation) would merit a "U", I presume.

Definitely. Fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 November 2021, 19:03:37
Funny story. The Capellan Confederation has been drawing off the IS Clan General list (the same used by the Bears, Wolves, and the like) in the Late Republic era for lord knows how long. This has been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 10 November 2021, 19:41:10
(Assuming old RATs matter...)
Missing from Marian Hegemony (Civil War era), according to the RAT in FM: Periphery, p. 147:
JVN-10P Javelin
MON-66 Mongoose
CLNT-2-3T Clint
ASN-40 Assassin (likely an error as this variant doesn't exist?)
VND-1R Vindicator
VND-3L Vindicator
TMP-3M Tempest
CTF-1X Cataphract
ON2-M Orion
ZEU-9S Zeus
BNC-3M Banshee

Any news of this? I read that it was in review
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 November 2021, 16:31:43
it had gotten buried but we have picked up discussion again thanks to your nudge
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 11 November 2021, 17:11:49
it had gotten buried but we have picked up discussion again thanks to your nudge

I'm glad I was a useful reminder
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 11 November 2021, 17:22:41
it had gotten buried but we have picked up discussion again thanks to your nudge

As another nudge, any news on the Wolf in Exile Loki II availability?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: bloof on 11 November 2021, 17:23:52
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6458/raven-ii-rvn-5x

Raven 5X has different stats on MUL and mordel.net / Mech Factory.

Medium dmg is 1, OV1 in MUL
Med dmg is 2 and OV 0 in other sources.

PV is the same for both versions, but this might indicate a slight difference in conversion mechanisms.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 November 2021, 17:35:05
All AS stats are manually entered for the MUL so I'm leaning towards an error on that end. Will have to confirm.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 11 November 2021, 18:44:24
Here are a few more random ones...

1. Longbow LGB-8C: Looks like an entry error on its Jihad availability (IS Clan General rather than IS General):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8332/longbow-lgb-8c

2. Looks like there are duplicate (IS) motorized rifle platoon entries (only difference is that one is missing its role):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2239/motorized-platoon-rifle
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7124/motorized-platoon-rifle

3. Lightning Hovercraft: According to Objectives: Periphery (p. 11), this was produced by the Taurians on Taurus in 3079, but it only has WoB/Imperio availability during Jihad and Imperio/ROS availability during Early Republic.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1884/lightning-attack-hovercraft-standard
And maybe also relevant to the (RL) variant, too? (because since when doesn't rocket launchers = Periphery?!?):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1882/lightning-attack-hovercraft-rl


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 November 2021, 19:06:15
1. definitely the case
2. the evil twin has been deleted
3. this one will require some investigation
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 November 2021, 02:04:46
CLNT-3-3T: only has Taurian availability during Jihad era, but variant was (presumably) supplied by WOB [TR3050U]

Further clarification: the wobbies were only supplied the LAC. the Taurians did the rest of the manufacturing themselves

Quote
CLNT-6S: has both Lyran and WOB availability during Jihad era, but variant was only produced at Defiance-Furillo (not WOB-controlled Hesperus II)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/651/clint-clnt-6s

Agreed. WoB deleted

Quote
Trebuchet TBT-3C: should this be extinct in LSW thru Civil War eras? TR3050U calls it as such in the Variants description.
(Happy for it to be otherwise, though, as it makes a nice Tukayyid campaign addition...)

Ultimately we decided to extinct this one out until the Dallas Core. It's too good a variant to keep hidden for centuries (also there was a reference noting surprise that it had appeared)

Quote
Flashman FLS-9B: Should Intro date be 3068 or 3070? Latter is consistent with Intro date of all the other WOB models produced at Defiance-Hesperus during Jihad (including sister model FLS-9M).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1125/flashman-fls-9b

Moved to 3070 when they actually held the planet

Quote
Ostscout OTT-10CS: This should probably have availability for FRR during Jihad era and likely Rasalhague Dominion during Early Republic era (rather than extinction), according to Variant description for OTT-11J in TR3085 (and production at Odin Mfg in Obj: Clans, p.36)

They are indeed building it until 3099 when the plant gets dead. The Bears are definitely done with the c3i experiment not long into the late republic era.


Quote
Archer ARC-2Rb: I think this should have WOB availability during Jihad era, according to Rec Guide 10 (p.6)

unruly writers adding off-the-cuff references is actually whack-a-mole

Quote
Wolverine WVR-9W and WVR-9W2: Something seems off in the timing of Intro dates relative to what is described in the -9W2 fluff in TR3085, so I am not sure exactly what the correct errata is. The current Intro dates are 3077 for the WOB -9W and 3084 for the DCMS -9W2, but TRO lists the (WOB-controlled) LAW-Dieron destroyed in 3077, and the -9W2 as first a factory/field refit created towards the end of the Jihad (and used during OP: SCOUR) and then produced from 3084 forward. It doesn't seem that the "field refit" referred to in the fluff would be the -9W either, because that variant has C3i.

Internal notes had better dates for these - 3073 for the 9W and 3077 for the 9W2

Quote
Condor Hover Tank (Upgrade) (Laser): This has wider availability than the standard Condor (Upgrade), but fluff in TR3075 suggests they should probably have the same availabilities since both are produced/sold at the same place (and fluff seems consistent with either one).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/684/condor-heavy-hover-tank-upgrade-laser

no evidence could be found to justify a change. the autocannon version is just more popular it seems.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: bloof on 12 November 2021, 03:59:38
PV error: Vulture U and Timber Wolf U
(compared to mordel.net and myvspreadsheet)

I don't know where the error could be, my spreadsheet shows same PVs for all other models.


http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3474/vulture-mad-dog-u

MUL: PV42 vs mordel.net & my spreadsheet PV 30

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1987/mad-cat-timber-wolf-u

MUL: PV 46 vs mordel.net & my spreadsheet 38
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 November 2021, 10:35:09
3. Lightning Hovercraft: According to Objectives: Periphery (p. 11), this was produced by the Taurians on Taurus in 3079, but it only has WoB/Imperio availability during Jihad and Imperio/ROS availability during Early Republic.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1884/lightning-attack-hovercraft-standard
And maybe also relevant to the (RL) variant, too? (because since when doesn't rocket launchers = Periphery?!?):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1882/lightning-attack-hovercraft-rl

Objectives is in error - the TC has never produced the Lightning hovercraft. It's the aerospace fighter (see HBMPS and OR)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 November 2021, 14:07:16
(Assuming old RATs matter...)
Missing from Marian Hegemony (Civil War era), according to the RAT in FM: Periphery, p. 147:
JVN-10P Javelin
MON-66 Mongoose
CLNT-2-3T Clint
ASN-40 Assassin (likely an error as this variant doesn't exist?)
VND-1R Vindicator
VND-3L Vindicator
TMP-3M Tempest
CTF-1X Cataphract
ON2-M Orion
ZEU-9S Zeus
BNC-3M Banshee

All added to appropriate eras for the MH in the civil war and beyond EXCEPT

Mongoose MON-66 - This is only really used at the time by WoB and the clans who had them in their garrisons. Its inclusion on the RAT is weird.

Assassin ASN-40 [sic] (should be -30, we determined) - At the time of the Civil War it was a Lyran exclusive and this will not change. The Marians do finally get several by 3131

Note that these additions do not waylay already-scheduled extinctions, which affects a number of these long-serving units
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 November 2021, 14:09:25
As another nudge, any news on the Wolf in Exile Loki II availability?

pretty sure it's in error. it has the marking of being manually added and is only on the <Base> in one era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 16 November 2021, 13:13:29
Rec Guide 21 is up on the MUL, noticed two issues.

For the Arctic Cheetah T:

The Alpha Strike Card has movement as 16"  Should be 16" Jump

For the Ostroc OSR-6R: 

There is no availability.  I figure someone should have access to it?   ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 16 November 2021, 14:14:40
Also for Arctic Cheetah T it has no role. Should be scout.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 November 2021, 14:58:47
Rec Guide 21 is up on the MUL, noticed two issues.

For the Arctic Cheetah T:

The Alpha Strike Card has movement as 16"  Should be 16" Jump

For the Ostroc OSR-6R: 

There is no availability.  I figure someone should have access to it?   ;D

Also for Arctic Cheetah T it has no role. Should be scout.

wrongs have been righted and justice prevails
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 17 November 2021, 00:24:42
Wusun C omnifighter has a special of BOMB3 where every other variant of the chassis has BOMB2.

Also not sure how it has the PRB/RCN specials
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 17 November 2021, 09:42:04
Clint -2-3T seems to be missing from the Periphery General Dark Age list?

It appears in FM:3145 as being built in the Fronc Reaches along with the Hunchback -4G and Rifleman -3N which are both on the list.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 November 2021, 09:51:57
one of these days I'm going to rip all of the Resurrect Mech incantations out of the writers' spellbooks.

will discuss
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 17 November 2021, 11:14:15
Question: should Comstar have unit availability after the Jihad era? It seems to have a random assortment of them in the three later eras, and I'm guessing they may have fallen through the cracks of being updated as either extinct or assigned to RotS:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=15
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=254
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=16

Also, should all Primitive techs have Rules = Era Specific (including RetroTech)? If so, these 4 are errata:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&Technologies=57&Rules=6&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 November 2021, 12:07:43
hmm. comstar does still exist in until they get snuffed out in the dark age... though their republic lists are a bit anemic. Will have to review that

the primitives deserve a look, too. will have to see if there's anything weird about those four or if standardization for primitives outside of the age of war / early star league is needed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: wesdyer on 18 November 2021, 15:38:10
Can we add the infantry squads from CM Mercenaries (pg 82) and CM Kurita (pg 76) to the MUL?

Flamer
MG
Rifle
Laser
SRM
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frantic Pryde on 18 November 2021, 16:03:58
First of all, a hearty THANK YOU! To the MUL team for a really excellent job. I’ve used it like crazy and its been great.

One thing that I think could be a massive improvement to the AS builder, is defaulting all battle armor units to number the of troopers that would be in the unit based on their faction of origins. Elementals would default to 5 trooper units instead of the current 4 for example.

I feel like the vast majority of people building lists will probably be fielding their units this way and I know it would definitely help me and my local players out a lot. Especially the newer players who always seem really confused by this aspect of the builder.

Anyway, that’s my feedback. Thanks for reading and keep up the great work. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 19 November 2021, 10:39:03
Hello guys, I was today in my morning reviewing the MUL Marian List and we lost two mech, one of the Marshal FR that was on the General Periphery list, when I went to the  Periphery General  list I saw that Fronc Reaches was not directly there but Filvet had appeared, is it some kind of error?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 November 2021, 11:07:57
Hello guys, I was today in my morning reviewing the MUL Marian List and we lost two mech, one of the Marshal FR that was on the General Periphery list, when I went to the  Periphery General  list I saw that Fronc Reaches was not directly there but Filvet had appeared, is it some kind of error?

Good eye! This is intentional. Periphery General has occasionally been used as an "umbrella" faction for minor Periphery states that aren't yet represented by the MUL. It has been determined that the Marhsal 6FR (and a handful of other units) would drop from PGen in order for us to give them more accurate distribution moving forward.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 19 November 2021, 11:18:51
Good eye! This is intentional. Periphery General has occasionally been used as an "umbrella" faction for minor Periphery states that aren't yet represented by the MUL. It has been determined that the Marhsal 6FR (and a handful of other units) would drop from PGen in order for us to give them more accurate distribution moving forward.

Ah, oki, will you replace the retired units with some other common use units?

Another thing someone who tells those who write the Rec Guide that saying that this or that model is sold to everyone, but when you make the list the "all" ends up at the limit of the inner sphere is not cute for us. longings to have those units hahahaha
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 November 2021, 11:38:45
Ah, oki, will you replace the retired units with some other common use units?

Unlikely. Access to those units at all was the result of not having the Fronc Reaches as a unique faction. It had to go somewhere. It will now have an accurate distribution
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 19 November 2021, 11:41:53
Thanks for the answer, it hurts the loss it was a nice and modern mech
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mr White on 19 November 2021, 21:22:10
I'm not certain if this is entirely the correct thread to post this into, but here goes.

I cannot use the fiters any more. As in, at all.
I go to /Unit/Filter and this is what I see. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vo1pah8t5p01as/002.png?dl=0)
If I do a faction + era search, I cannot change tabs away from battlemechs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 19 November 2021, 22:48:54
Why does the White Raven 2 have the CR special? It doesn’t have FL or anything else I can tell that would impart that ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 20 November 2021, 08:55:08
I'm not certain if this is entirely the correct thread to post this into, but here goes.

I cannot use the fiters any more. As in, at all.
I go to /Unit/Filter and this is what I see. (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vo1pah8t5p01as/002.png?dl=0)
If I do a faction + era search, I cannot change tabs away from battlemechs.

Clicking on Factions on the left doesn't expand that filter section? That is the exact view that I see when I go to the site but I'm able to expand the various filter groupings to make selections. What browser and OS are you using? (The last couple "random" problems have been browser and OS dependent so it is something we have to consider when digging into these. I am not able to replicate the problem.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mr White on 20 November 2021, 14:28:03
None of them work. Not factions, types or any of them. And I'm running Google Chrome on Windows 10.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 20 November 2021, 14:48:19
None of them work. Not factions, types or any of them. And I'm running Google Chrome on Windows 10.

Using Chrome on Windows 11, they're working for me.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ar6skgok3r3HjIIaC39OyglKmwvlxQ?e=jd1iCt
My guess is that it's specific to your computer. Clearing cache, reinstalling Chrome, checking extensions, etc.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mr White on 20 November 2021, 15:11:31
Using Chrome on Windows 11, they're working for me.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ar6skgok3r3HjIIaC39OyglKmwvlxQ?e=jd1iCt
My guess is that it's specific to your computer. Clearing cache, reinstalling Chrome, checking extensions, etc.
That didn't help, unfortunately. I'm having the same issue on my laptop. Again, Chrome + Windows 10.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 20 November 2021, 22:34:24
Why does the White Raven 2 have the CR special? It doesn’t have FL or anything else I can tell that would impart that ability.

It shouldn't, nor should it have CASE. My guess is this was an entry error as the Standard has CASE and CR.

I've corrected it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 November 2021, 22:39:00
my guess is that it was ported over in the copy/create function when cloning the White Raven (Standard), which has both
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 20 November 2021, 23:26:32
Ryoken III-XP (Skinwalker), all variants, only have 5 blocks of armor. This is incorrect as it has 161 points of Ferro-Lam armor. 161*1.2=192.xx/30=6.4 (round normally) = 6 points of armor.


Idk If this will change its PVs as well
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Mr White on 20 November 2021, 23:43:33
That didn't help, unfortunately. I'm having the same issue on my laptop. Again, Chrome + Windows 10.
So a little more isolation testing and I found that my players also couldn't use the filters. Except for one. And after a little further investigation, it appeared that they were the only one who has a VPN running on default.

So, I turn on my VPN and set it to the US and I get functionality back again. It appears that the MUL doesn't like connections from Australia for some reason.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 21 November 2021, 00:01:28
I'm a genuine exile in Australia, no VPN, and the filters work fine for me. Chrome 96, up to date, on Windows 10.

They don't work on my Android phone, but not complaining too much about that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 21 November 2021, 01:54:11
It shouldn't, nor should it have CASE. My guess is this was an entry error as the Standard has CASE and CR.

I've corrected it.

As a Clan 'mech it should definitely have CASE at minimum unless for whatever reason it didn't bother to use the free option to have it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 November 2021, 02:50:22
It has nothing explosive so it'll just have ENE
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 21 November 2021, 03:14:32
Ah, I misunderstood why CASE was an anomaly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 21 November 2021, 13:06:59
Ryoken III-XP (Skinwalker), all variants, only have 5 blocks of armor. This is incorrect as it has 161 points of Ferro-Lam armor. 161*1.2=192.xx/30=6.4 (round normally) = 6 points of armor.


Idk If this will change its PVs as well

I've looked in to this and made some adjustments. The Ryoken III-XP should be good now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 November 2021, 21:51:54
the Fronc Reaches have been added as a faction
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starfury on 21 November 2021, 23:49:02
the Fronc Reaches have been added as a faction

And there was much rejoicing. Thank you, oh MUL deities, for adding another underappreciated Periphery faction list for me to peruse and lose sleep over.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 November 2021, 00:20:53
And there was much rejoicing. Thank you, oh MUL deities, for adding another underappreciated Periphery faction list for me to peruse and lose sleep over.

How this went:

Clint -2-3T seems to be missing from the Periphery General Dark Age list?

It appears in FM:3145 as being built in the Fronc Reaches along with the Hunchback -4G and Rifleman -3N which are both on the list.

"Ugh. It can't be extinct but it can't be P Gen because they're literally building this thing in a ****** TRACTOR PLANT"
"Ok but it's either that or we add the Froncs"
"<collective sigh>"

four days later

the Fronc Reaches have been added as a faction
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 November 2021, 19:10:32
Guys, this isn't a random chat thread.  Feedback or questions, or take it to another thread please.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 28 November 2021, 23:57:18
Thunderbolt C 2 has a lot of extra “ after it’s movement number.


Xotl: Fixed, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 November 2021, 10:57:55
Kyudo KY2-D-03
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1852/kyudo-ky2-d-03

The model is still avaible to the Duchy of Andurien up to the Dark Ages, but Lopez, the planet that had the Irian factory that made the mech, got destroyed in 3081. Maybe the retrotech variant plant in Xanthe III got upgraded?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 November 2021, 11:52:05
Just because something is available for a long time doesn’t mean it was in production (see the whitworth and Clint). They just took care of the ones that they had
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 29 November 2021, 13:20:16
Just because something is available for a long time doesn’t mean it was in production (see the whitworth and Clint). They just took care of the ones that they had

I get what you mean. But on the other part, both the Clint and Whitworth had 205 and 22 years of production, versus the 7 years of the Kyudo -03. Those anduarians surely know how to keep their Kyudos working!  :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 November 2021, 14:25:26
Some units were added to comstar's late-era availabilities. This was premature and are being removed. Apologies for any confusion or getting anyone's hopes up. Some will be added eventually but not the list I originally was using
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Frantic Pryde on 01 December 2021, 16:15:59
Kit Fox G unit card is missing ECM.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 01 December 2021, 16:39:19
Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 01 December 2021, 17:02:50
Wusun C omnifighter has a special of BOMB3 where every other variant of the chassis has BOMB2.

Also not sure how it has the PRB/RCN specials

I think this got lost in the wash. Ignore the PRB part I think (I don’t have the record sheet at hand)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 04 December 2021, 16:34:29
Is there anyway to search for OmniVehicles that I'm missing? There's a OmniMech and OmniFighter under the subtypes, but not for vehicles?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 December 2021, 17:00:00
Is there anyway to search for OmniVehicles that I'm missing? There's a OmniMech and OmniFighter under the subtypes, but not for vehicles?

Excellent question! The short answer is not in the way you want to

Longer answer: Each unit has a type and a subtype in the database. For mechs and aerofighters, it’s a binary proposition - it’s either BattleMech or OmniMech in the case of mechs, for example.

Vehicles use the subtype to show their movement mode, be it tracked, hover, wheeled, VTOL, etc. In order to make omnivees searchable, you’d have to add Omnivehicle - Tracked and so on. So to search for all omnivees you’d have to select all of them from the subtype submenu. Cumbersome, though not completely awful. We briefly discussed the option months ago but didn’t make any decisions.

In this case, the workaround might actually be better. Each omni unit has a config called <Base> that represents the unit as a whole regardless of config (it saves a LOT of space on internal production notes). Under the units tab, if you set the unit type to combat vehicle (and / or support vee) and Base> in the unit name text box, it will show you all of the chassis that are omnivees (don’t use <base> or <base because the MUL will think you’re trying to inject code and freak out)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 December 2021, 17:03:04
Or search for vehicles and enter OMNI in the AS specials search.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 December 2021, 17:06:08
Bah of course I forgot the even easier way!

It should probably be how people search for omnis in general
Title: Shadow Hawk 3H
Post by: StarFlicker on 08 December 2021, 08:23:46
The Shadow Hawk 3H is a Star-League-era variant in the MUL,
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5037/shadow-hawk-shd-3h
However, it does not have any info on Sarna.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Hawk#Variants
What is this thing? It isn't the Royal 2Hb variant. I'd like to have another opportunity for a pre-clan era Shadow Hawk to not be total garbage, so I'm curious...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 December 2021, 10:35:24
it was referenced long, long ago in a TCI model kit that used BattleDroids construction rules. It dropped the SRM-2 and added an MG (it was a half ton underweight). it shouldn't have been publicly viewable and has been hidden for the sake of everyone's sanity. Pretend it doesn't exist

Update: there's more to this under the surface that was added later and it left a messy paper trail. We'll announce any changes if / when they are made
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 08 December 2021, 22:07:16
Ok, I think I have finished going down my Jihad TRO/production rabbit hole! Here's the remaining errata I think I came across:

Aerospace:
Union-X (3071) DS and Claymore (std) DS -- both were produced at Shipil Co. of Skye, so should probably have RotS availability from Early Republic forward [TRO 3067, TRO 3057, respectively, with Claymore V3 not available until 3086 and Claymore Interceptor a refit.]
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5763/union-x-3071
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3958/claymore-standard

Light Strike Fighter "Angel" (upgrade or standard, fluff not clear) -- Magistracy of Canopus and Outworlds Alliance should have access during Jihad era, according to Obj-Periphery (p. 18 for MoC) and Obj-Clans  (p. 21 for OA).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1871/light-strike-fighter-angel-upgrade
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1870/light-strike-fighter-angel


Here are a couple Mechs where I think maybe the wrong faction was selected by accident:
Pack Hunter II 2-- availability should be Wolves-in-Exile, not Steel Viper, during Jihad  (produced by WiE and no real contact between the 2 at that point, and all other eras/variants have WiE)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2397/pack-hunter-ii-2
Rabid Coyote 2 -- should availability be Coyotes, not Wolves? (Wolves don't have access to the standard version, didn't produce, and didn't have much contact with Coyotes at this time for a field refit)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5682/rabid-coyote-2


Canis 2 -- has intro date of 3071 but is available in Clan Invasion and Civil War eras (no variants listed in TRO 3060, so Intro date is likely correct)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/460/canis-2


The following long list of Omni configurations were introduced during the Jihad, have similar, earlier configurations available to HW-Clans General during the Jihad, but these configurations are not available to them during the Jihad. The fact that most are also available to IS-General and otherwise have similar availability as the other configurations makes me think these were likely accidental omissions.

It also might be worth checking all Clan Omnis from TRCI, TRO3050U, TRO3055U, or TRO3058U with Intro date in [3068,3080], but I think I caught all of them here:
Dasher F, K
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/843/dasher-fire-moth-f
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/845/dasher-fire-moth-k
Uller F
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3345/uller-kit-fox-f
Puma J
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2597/puma-adder-j
Hankyu E
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1382/hankyu-arctic-cheetah-e
Dragonfly F G, I
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/922/dragonfly-viper-f
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/923/dragonfly-viper-g
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/925/dragonfly-viper-i
Fenris L
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1052/fenris-ice-ferret-l
Black Hawk F
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/340/black-hawk-nova-f
Ryoken F, G
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2754/ryoken-stormcrow-f
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2755/ryoken-stormcrow-g
Vulture E, F
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3470/vulture-mad-dog-e
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3471/vulture-mad-dog-f
Cauldron-Born E
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/494/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-e
[Loki D, E
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1926/loki-hellbringer-d
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1927/loki-hellbringer-e
Thor G, HH
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3179/thor-summoner-g
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3181/thor-summoner-hh
Mad Cat F
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1983/mad-cat-timber-wolf-f
Man O' War G, M
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2007/man-o-war-gargoyle-g
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2009/man-o-war-gargoyle-m
Gladiator K, P
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1209/gladiator-executioner-k
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1210/gladiator-executioner-p
Kingfisher F
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1784/kingfisher-f
Daishi D
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/816/daishi-dire-wolf-d






Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 December 2021, 00:19:51
Once again thank you for your thorough contributions. I've started cross-checking your finds with the internal notes.

You beat me to the punch on the omni config inconsistencies - it was near the top of my list to look through. Generally non-unique configs should be available to anyone who fields the <Base> chassis so we'll have to see if there are any exceptions being enforced here.





Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: RagnarOdinson on 09 December 2021, 14:22:31
For the AS Force Builder, is it possible to have a drop down for squad size of infantry? As different squad sizes have different PV and A/S pips.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 December 2021, 14:54:39
At this time it is not. Apologies for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 09 December 2021, 22:01:12
Once again thank you for your thorough contributions. I've started cross-checking your finds with the internal notes.

You beat me to the punch on the omni config inconsistencies - it was near the top of my list to look through. Generally non-unique configs should be available to anyone who fields the <Base> chassis so we'll have to see if there are any exceptions being enforced here.

Great!  :thumbsup:

If it helps, I excluded all the Wars-of-Reaving Z's and the underwarter U's (many of which came about post-Reaving), and didn't really include a config unless I could find a Clan Invasion/Civil War config for the Omni with HW-Clan availability, so hopefully that makes the x-referencing easier.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 December 2021, 09:27:48
Just a question:

The Toro TR-A-6 is listed as CP and FR since Late Republic onwards (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3277/toro-tr-a-6 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3277/toro-tr-a-6)) but FM: 3145, pg. 222 put it in the TC RAT. So, its will also go to the TC, or it keeps as CP/FR?

Just to add, it was stated that the model was back in production in the DA, with the subtext that it was in the TC (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-writers/status-of-the-tr-a-6-toro/msg1485281/#msg1485281 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-writers/status-of-the-tr-a-6-toro/msg1485281/#msg1485281)).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 December 2021, 10:08:49
It is not being produced in the TC

RAT contents are not necessarily indicative of MUL standards for availability
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Baldur Mekorig on 10 December 2021, 10:17:20
It is not being produced in the TC

RAT contents are not necessarily indicative of MUL standards for availability

roger that! thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 December 2021, 11:32:32
the second part of my answer was truncated - we're looking into whether the RAT is applicable here
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 11 December 2021, 01:55:35
Jade Phoenix E doesn’t show the AS stat card.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 December 2021, 02:04:42
helps if I tell the MUL what kind of unit it is...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 11 December 2021, 02:31:35
I get that it's probably a low priority, but is there any chance AS cards for TRO Irregulars units could get added to the to-do list, please?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 December 2021, 02:35:57
huh. looks like Mordel has all the stats over on his site. if the boss approves this will take a lot less time than expected
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 11 December 2021, 05:26:40
Sometimes the tonnage in the AS print out does not match the tonnage listed in the actual builder section.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 11 December 2021, 11:46:06
Should the Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Maeve) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5238/thunderbolt-tdr-5s-maeve) exist now? RG:ilClan, v15 p. 9 puts her in a TDR-9W during the Dragoon Civil War, which is the era covered in Wolf Pack.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 December 2021, 11:53:29
Should the Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Maeve) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5238/thunderbolt-tdr-5s-maeve) exist now? RG:ilClan, v15 p. 9 puts her in a TDR-9W during the Dragoon Civil War, which is the era covered in Wolf Pack.

Nope, thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 December 2021, 11:54:05
I think there is a mistake with the Battle Cobra X in the late republic era.
It's available to clan Nova Cat unlike all other configurations.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/274/battle-cobra-x
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 December 2021, 11:58:54
I think there is a mistake with the Battle Cobra X in the late republic era.
It's available to clan Nova Cat unlike all other configurations.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/274/battle-cobra-x

Yep, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 11 December 2021, 18:45:31
The Thug THG-12K seems to be missing for the Draconis Combine during the Dark Age era. Is this an oversight?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3208/thug-thg-12k
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 December 2021, 18:22:43
it is not
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 20 December 2021, 19:33:25
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8185/black-lanner-f
BV should be 2197 instead of 2154.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8197/phoenix-hawk-iic-10
BV should be 2762 instead of 2469.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8232/crusader-crd-9br
BV should be 1615 instead of 1653.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Xotl on 20 December 2021, 22:19:37
BV should be

Why are the old ones wrong, and where did you get the new ones?  Per the OP, if you used software to generate new values, please post the name of it and the version number you used.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 21 December 2021, 00:41:51
The Phoenix Hawk IIC 10 was a simple input error, from what I can see. It's been fixed.

The Crusader had erroneous BV in its Recognition Guide. It was not charged the proper BV for its TSM'd Claws, and the 1615 value within the product has been errata'd to the value that is now on the MUL.

The 2197 BV listed for the Black Lanner F in its RecGuide 15 entry is incorrect; the RS in the same product has the correct value.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Clavius1 on 24 December 2021, 06:49:40
Xotl, GreekFire
First of all, I wolud ask for excuse for lack of clarity and for erroneous data.
I've checked these mechs with the help of MegamekLab, but it seems to me that I have too old version (0.45.0 with new MTFs). Also I haven't checked new PDFs for RS.
P.S. Last stable MML 0.48.0 also did wrong calculations for Claw + TSM combination.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 24 December 2021, 09:13:37
It's all good! When using MegamekLab, always make sure to use the latest dev version for your needs---especially if you've been running off of 45.0. Quite a few BV changes have been made in the program since then.

As for the Claw/TSM error in MM, it was logged and should be fixed in their next release.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 27 December 2021, 09:20:35
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7582/dasher-fire-moth-r

The Dasher R availabilities and introduction date are odd. The configuration sports a C3 slave, which implies it a Spheroid/mercenary configuration, yet in 3110 the 'Mech doesn't seem to be available to mercenaries.
Perhaps it should be a introduced a couple of decades later, or the Dasher should get mercenary availability for the Late Republic Era?

Or is the thing perhaps a Ghost Bear creation for second-line galaxies? If so, it probably should be GB exclusive in Late Republic Era as the Clans in general seem dismissive of C3 systems even now.


EDIT Also, the Dasher's configurations have inconsistent availabilities for Escorpion Imperio for Late Republic era. Looks like all pre-RG configs are available, while RG variants are not even when there's no apparent reason for them not to be available, such as the Dasher M.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 27 December 2021, 13:08:16
Dark Age Era - The Stormcrow TC is missing from the Scorpion Empire list even though every other variant is available to the faction.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 27 December 2021, 13:33:08
Dark Age Era - The Stormcrow TC is missing from the Scorpion Empire list even though every other variant is available to the faction.

Fixed.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7582/dasher-fire-moth-r

The Dasher R availabilities and introduction date are odd. The configuration sports a C3 slave, which implies it a Spheroid/mercenary configuration, yet in 3110 the 'Mech doesn't seem to be available to mercenaries.
Perhaps it should be a introduced a couple of decades later, or the Dasher should get mercenary availability for the Late Republic Era?

Or is the thing perhaps a Ghost Bear creation for second-line galaxies? If so, it probably should be GB exclusive in Late Republic Era as the Clans in general seem dismissive of C3 systems even now.


EDIT Also, the Dasher's configurations have inconsistent availabilities for Escorpion Imperio for Late Republic era. Looks like all pre-RG configs are available, while RG variants are not even when there's no apparent reason for them not to be available, such as the Dasher M.

Looking into it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daritus1988 on 27 December 2021, 17:01:51
How about to add a line on the cards with the date of introduction of the unit or one for own notes?

The add of a introduction date on the cards would help in fast list build, when you play a scenario or a battle within a certain era (or year). Otherwise a notice field, which you can fill out with the customization option on the MUL would players give the option to note sometinh imortant on that Unit or other stuff.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Tumult and Travail on 29 December 2021, 11:56:19
XTRO Royal Fantasy's Ariel typo: listed as an Agroterra (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8365/agroterra-agt-ua-ariel) instead of an Agrotera, separating it from its base 'Mech.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 December 2021, 12:37:31
XTRO Royal Fantasy's Ariel typo: listed as an Agroterra (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8365/agroterra-agt-ua-ariel) instead of an Agrotera, separating it from its base 'Mech.

who could possibly be responsible?! oh wait it's me

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 December 2021, 12:38:42
How about to add a line on the cards with the date of introduction of the unit or one for own notes?

The add of a introduction date on the cards would help in fast list build, when you play a scenario or a battle within a certain era (or year). Otherwise a notice field, which you can fill out with the customization option on the MUL would players give the option to note sometinh imortant on that Unit or other stuff.

this would require changes to the card format, which is not possible at this time

apologies for the inconvenience
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 29 December 2021, 17:05:33
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8417/lancelot-lnc-25-09

The new Lancelot from Rec Guide 23 appears to have one too many armor bubbles--though perhaps my math is off? 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 December 2021, 17:13:21
entered correctly per the sheet i received from our stats guru. will look into the calculations
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 29 December 2021, 19:29:17
It has 201 points of Heavy Ferro-Fibrous, so no special armor types. So we use the standard 201 / 30, which equals 6.7. 6.7 rounds normally to 7.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8417/lancelot-lnc-25-09

The new Lancelot from Rec Guide 23 appears to have one too many armor bubbles--though perhaps my math is off?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 30 December 2021, 09:32:39
The Crosscut ED-X4K LoggerMech entry: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7466/crosscut-ed-x4k-loggermech

Says the BV is 223.  The Record Sheet in Touring the Stars: Kaumberg p. 16 says the BV is 367.

As shown by the calcs from Mordel's page, 367 appears to be correct:
 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Crosscut ED-X4K LoggerMech
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            30
Configuration:      Biped IndustrialMech

======================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Heavy Industrial):                            80 x 2.5 x 1               200.000             
  Internal Structure (Industrial w/ Fuel Cell Engine): 51 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 1  (+)     38.250  =   238.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                     30 x 0.5            (+)     15.000  =   253.250
  Explosive Ammunition:                                1 Critical Space    (-)     15.000  =   238.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                           +2                  (*)       1.20  =   285.900
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                 285.900

======================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                                 
        6 (Base) + 2 (Heat Sinks) - 3 (Weapons) = 5                                                   
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                               
       SRM 4                                                                       39.000             
       Chainsaw                                                            (+)      7.000  =    46.000
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                                     (+)      5.000  =    51.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                     (+)     30.000  =    81.000
  Speed Factor:                                        5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.000  =    81.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                  81.000

======================================================================================================
IndustrialMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        285.900             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                 (+)     81.000  =   366.900
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final IndustrialMech Battle Value:                                                                 367
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kell on 30 December 2021, 09:40:10
Not sure if this has been mentioned. But is it possible to add filters to the Force: Alpha Strike Builder?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 30 December 2021, 09:41:21
For the Morrigan 4, MUL lists the Battle Value as 1904: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6927/morrigan-4

Record Sheets 3145 New tech New Upgrades p 98 indicates the BV is 2063.

The Calculations from MechFactory agree with 2063 (below). Mordel's page also calculates 2063. 

BATTLE VALUE 2 CALCULATION FOR Morrigan 4

Configuration:1
5 ER Small Laser (C):10 heat
1 TSEMP (IS):10 heat
5 ER Small Laser (C):10 heat
Internal Techbase: Clan
Engine name:XL Fusion (C)
Clan engine
Armor type:Ferro-Fibrous = x 1
Location armor points with factor: hd:9 lt:11 rt:11 ct:15 la:10 ra:10 ll:16 rl:16 ltb:5 rtb:5 ctb:7
Total Armor Factor = 115 x 2.5 = 287.5
Engine type:XL Fusion(Clan) = x 0.75
Internal type: Endo Steel = x 1
Total Internal Structure Points x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75 = 65.25
Gyro type: Gyro: (IS) = x 0.5
Gyro BV: 35 x 0.5 = 17.5
Defensive Equipments:0
Substract for detonating slots:0
Defensive BV:370.25
Maximum run: 12
At full run of 12 target modifier:4
Defensive factor:1.4
Total Defensive BV:518.35

Offensive BV Calculation
Heat Sink Capacity:24
Movement heat:2
Heat efficiency: (6+heat sink capacity - movementheat)=28
Full weapon heat:30
- TSEMP (IS) (804) heat:10 base BV:488 x 1 = 488
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 1 = 31
- ER Small Laser (C) (125) heat:2 base BV:31 x 0.5 = 15.5
Total Weapon BV:782.5
Total Mass Factor:35
Offensive BV:817.5
Move:12 / sFactor:1.89
Total Offensive BV:1545.075

Total BV2 : 2063
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 30 December 2021, 09:49:29
The Grendel I pages lists the BV as 1936  :  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7458/grendel-mongrel-i

The record sheet in Vol2 Recognition Guide p.20 lists the BV as 1675.

The MechFactory calcs agree with 1675.  Mordel's cacls also agree with 1675.

BATTLE VALUE 2 CALCULATION FOR Grendel I

Configuration:1
1 ER Medium Laser (C):5 heat
1 ProtoMech AC/4 (C):1 heat
1 Plasma Rifle (IS):10 heat
7 Standard Jump Jets::0 heat
Internal Techbase: Clan
Engine name:315 Consolidated XL (C)
Clan engine
Armor type:Ferro-Fibrous = x 1
Location armor points with factor: hd:9 lt:16 rt:16 ct:18 la:12 ra:12 ll:20 rl:20 ltb:6 rtb:6 ctb:9
Total Armor Factor = 144 x 2.5 = 360
Engine type:XL Fusion(Clan) = x 0.75
Internal type: Endo Steel = x 1
Total Internal Structure Points x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75 = 84.375
Gyro type: Gyro: (C) = x 0.5
Gyro BV: 45 x 0.5 = 22.5
Defensive Equipments:0
Substract for detonating slots:0
Defensive BV:466.875
Maximum run: 11
Maximum jump: 7
At full jump of 7 target modifier:4
Defensive factor:1.4
Total Defensive BV:653.625

Offensive BV Calculation
Heat Sink Capacity:20
Movement heat:7
Heat efficiency: (6+heat sink capacity - movementheat)=19
Full weapon heat:16
- Plasma Rifle (IS) (108) heat:10 base BV:210 x 1 = 210
- Adding ammo BV (26) = 26
- ER Medium Laser (C) (124) heat:5 base BV:108 x 1 = 108
- ProtoMech AC/4 (C) (390) heat:1 base BV:49 x 1 = 49
- Adding ammo BV (6) = 6
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
- Standard Jump Jets: (608) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
Total Weapon BV:399
Total Mass Factor:45
Offensive BV:444
Move:15 / sFactor:2.3
Total Offensive BV:1021.2

Total BV2 : 1675

                Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Grendel (Mongrel) I
Technology:         Clan (Mixed)
Tonnage:            45
Configuration:      Biped OmniMech

================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                        144 x 2.5 x 1               360.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)     84.375  =   444.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              45 x 0.5             (+)     22.500  =   466.875
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  =   653.625
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           653.625

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 7 (Movement) - 16 (Weapons) = 3                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Plasma Rifle (IS)                                                    210.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)    108.000  =   318.000
       ProtoMech AC/4                                                (+)     49.000  =   367.000
       Plasma Rifle (Ammo 10) (IS)                                   (+)     26.000  =   393.000
       ProtoMech AC/4 (Ammo 20)                                      (+)      6.000  =   399.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     45.000  =   444.000
  Speed Factor:                                 11 (Run) + 4 (Jump)  (*)      2.300  = 1,021.200
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,021.200

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  653.625             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,021.200  = 1,674.825
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,675
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 30 December 2021, 10:47:27
The Crosscut ED-X4K LoggerMech

For the Morrigan 4

The Grendel I

I've checked, confirmed, and corrected all three. Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 30 December 2021, 14:27:20
Star Crusader B lacks availability

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8427/star-crusader-b
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 December 2021, 14:36:15
scorpified
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 31 December 2021, 15:12:03
Mauler MAL-1R  http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2101/mauler-mal-1r (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2101/mauler-mal-1r)

MUL lists the BV as 1586 while the sheet on p.461 of recrod Sheets : Clan Invasion indicates BV as 1460.  MechFactory amd Mordel's calcs agree with 1460.

MechFactory BATTLE VALUE 2 CALCULATION FOR Mauler MAL-1R

Configuration:1
2 Autocannon/2s:2 heat
2 Autocannon/2s:2 heat
1 LRM 15:5 heat
1 LRM 15:5 heat
1 ER Large Laser:12 heat
1 ER Large Laser:12 heat
1 CASE Equipment: LT,RT:0 heat
lt CASE
rt CASE
Internal Techbase: IS
Engine name:Hermes XL Fusion
Armor type:Ferro-Fibrous = x 1
Location armor points with factor: hd:9 lt:26 rt:26 ct:27 la:22 ra:22 ll:22 rl:22 ltb:10 rtb:10 ctb:10
Total Armor Factor = 206 x 2.5 = 515
Engine type:XL Fusion = x 0.5
Internal type: Standard = x 1
Total Internal Structure Points x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5 = 103.5
Gyro type: Gyro: = x 0.5
Gyro BV: 90 x 0.5 = 45
Defensive Equipments:0
lt Autocannon/2 Ammo(45) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
lt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
lt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt Autocannon/2 Ammo(45) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
Substract for detonating slots:90
Defensive BV:573.5
Maximum run: 5
At full run of 5 target modifier:2
Defensive factor:1.2
Total Defensive BV:688.2

Offensive BV Calculation
Heat Sink Capacity:22
Movement heat:2
Heat efficiency: (6+heat sink capacity - movementheat)=26
Full weapon heat:38
- ER Large Laser (7) heat:12 base BV:163 x 1 = 163
- ER Large Laser (7) heat:12 base BV:163 x 1 = 163
- LRM 15 (41) heat:5 base BV:136 x 1 = 136
- Adding ammo BV (68) = 68
- LRM 15 (41) heat:5 base BV:136 x 0.5 = 68
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Adding ammo BV (10) = 10
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- CASE Equipment: LT,RT (245) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
Total Weapon BV:682
Total Mass Factor:90
Offensive BV:772
Move:5 / sFactor:1
Total Offensive BV:772

Total BV2 : 1460

Mordel:
 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Mauler MAL-1R
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            90
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                      206 x 2.5 x 1               515.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    103.500  =   618.500
  Gyro (Standard):                            90 x 0.5             (+)     45.000  =   663.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                       6 Critical Spaces    (-)     90.000  =   573.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +2                   (*)       1.20  =   688.200
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         688.200

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                       
        6 (Base) + 22 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 38 (Weapons) = -12                       
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Large Laser                                                     163.000             
       ER Large Laser                                              (+)    163.000  =   326.000
       LRM 15                                                      (+)    136.000  =   462.000
       LRM 15                                 [Inefficient]        (+)     68.000  =   530.000
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   548.500
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   567.000
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   585.500
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   604.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   621.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   638.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   655.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   672.000
       Autocannon/2 (Ammo 45)                                      (+)      5.000  =   677.000
       Autocannon/2 (Ammo 45)                                      (+)      5.000  =   682.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)     90.000  =   772.000
  Speed Factor:                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.000  =   772.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         772.000

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                688.200             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)    772.000  = 1,460.200
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                           1,460


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 31 December 2021, 16:17:12
Mauler MAL-1R

Confirmed and fixed.

Going forward, could I kindly ask you to use the "Insert Code" button when posting calculations? It helps align the formating, gets rid of any annoying 8) emojis that may pop up, and makes it easier to parse through the calculations.

EG:

Code: [Select]
MUL lists the BV as 1586 while the sheet on p.461 of recrod Sheets : Clan Invasion indicates BV as 1460.  MechFactory amd Mordel's calcs agree with 1460.

MechFactory BATTLE VALUE 2 CALCULATION FOR Mauler MAL-1R

Configuration:1
2 Autocannon/2s:2 heat
2 Autocannon/2s:2 heat
1 LRM 15:5 heat
1 LRM 15:5 heat
1 ER Large Laser:12 heat
1 ER Large Laser:12 heat
1 CASE Equipment: LT,RT:0 heat
lt CASE
rt CASE
Internal Techbase: IS
Engine name:Hermes XL Fusion
Armor type:Ferro-Fibrous = x 1
Location armor points with factor: hd:9 lt:26 rt:26 ct:27 la:22 ra:22 ll:22 rl:22 ltb:10 rtb:10 ctb:10
Total Armor Factor = 206 x 2.5 = 515
Engine type:XL Fusion = x 0.5
Internal type: Standard = x 1
Total Internal Structure Points x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5 = 103.5
Gyro type: Gyro: = x 0.5
Gyro BV: 90 x 0.5 = 45
Defensive Equipments:0
lt Autocannon/2 Ammo(45) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
lt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
lt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt Autocannon/2 Ammo(45) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
rt LRM 15 Ammo(8) (IS mech w/ XL) -15
Substract for detonating slots:90
Defensive BV:573.5
Maximum run: 5
At full run of 5 target modifier:2
Defensive factor:1.2
Total Defensive BV:688.2

Offensive BV Calculation
Heat Sink Capacity:22
Movement heat:2
Heat efficiency: (6+heat sink capacity - movementheat)=26
Full weapon heat:38
- ER Large Laser (7) heat:12 base BV:163 x 1 = 163
- ER Large Laser (7) heat:12 base BV:163 x 1 = 163
- LRM 15 (41) heat:5 base BV:136 x 1 = 136
- Adding ammo BV (68) = 68
- LRM 15 (41) heat:5 base BV:136 x 0.5 = 68
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Adding ammo BV (10) = 10
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- Autocannon/2s (20) heat:1 base BV:37 x 0.5 = 18.5
- CASE Equipment: LT,RT (245) heat:0 base BV:0 x 1 = 0
Total Weapon BV:682
Total Mass Factor:90
Offensive BV:772
Move:5 / sFactor:1
Total Offensive BV:772

Total BV2 : 1460

Mordel:
 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Mauler MAL-1R
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            90
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                      206 x 2.5 x 1               515.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 138 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    103.500  =   618.500
  Gyro (Standard):                            90 x 0.5             (+)     45.000  =   663.500
  Explosive Ammunition:                       6 Critical Spaces    (-)     90.000  =   573.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +2                   (*)       1.20  =   688.200
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         688.200

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                       
        6 (Base) + 22 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 38 (Weapons) = -12                       
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       ER Large Laser                                                     163.000             
       ER Large Laser                                              (+)    163.000  =   326.000
       LRM 15                                                      (+)    136.000  =   462.000
       LRM 15                                 [Inefficient]        (+)     68.000  =   530.000
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   548.500
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   567.000
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   585.500
       Autocannon/2                           [Inefficient]        (+)     18.500  =   604.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   621.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   638.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   655.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                             (+)     17.000  =   672.000
       Autocannon/2 (Ammo 45)                                      (+)      5.000  =   677.000
       Autocannon/2 (Ammo 45)                                      (+)      5.000  =   682.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)     90.000  =   772.000
  Speed Factor:                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.000  =   772.000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         772.000

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                688.200             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)    772.000  = 1,460.200
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                           1,460
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starfury on 01 January 2022, 23:28:15
Hello, MUL Team.  The Guillotine 7M is listed as available to all Free World League factions in the Dark Ages, but not to the unified Free Worlds Leauge list in the same era. Should it be available to the unified FWL list as well in the Dark Ages? Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 January 2022, 23:47:33
it should, yes. fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 02 January 2022, 03:10:32
The Atlas C 2 and Atlas C 3 are both listed as Experimental rules level and Mixed tech.  Per their record sheets, they should be Clan tech level and Standard rules for the C 2 and Advanced rules for the C 3.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 January 2022, 03:21:35
bleh. forgot to change them when I used the C as a template. all fixed now
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 02 January 2022, 04:16:17
Good morning, the Atlas AS8-KE is lacking availability data.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 02 January 2022, 10:41:23
The Hellion G is listed as BV 1513 -
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6939/hellion-g (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6939/hellion-g)
That value does agree with the value on the record sheet in 3145 NTNU, page 83.

However, I think the value is incorrect.  I'm posting the calcs from Mordel's page (and I hope I use the insert function correctly):

Code: [Select]
Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Hellion G
Technology:         Clan (Mixed)
Tonnage:            30
Configuration:      Biped OmniMech

================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                        105 x 2.5 x 1               262.500             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 51 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)     57.375  =   319.875
  Gyro (Standard):                              30 x 0.5             (+)     15.000  =   334.875
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  =   468.825
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           468.825

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                         
        6 (Base) + 22 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 27.5 (Weapons) = -1.5                       
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       LRM 10                                                               109.000             
       TSEMP (OS) (IS)                                               (+)     98.000  =   207.000
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   300.000
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   393.000
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                   (+)     93.000  =   486.000
       LRM 10 (Ammo 12)                                              (+)     14.000  =   500.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     30.000  =   530.000
  Speed Factor:                                 14 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      2.160  = 1,144.800
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,144.800

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  468.825             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,144.800  = 1,613.625
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,614

Mechfactory also calcs the BV as 1614.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 January 2022, 11:01:14
Good morning, the Atlas AS8-KE is lacking availability data.

Fixed!

The Hellion G is listed as BV 1513

Confirmed and fixed---and thank you for using the code function :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 02 January 2022, 11:04:29
The Vision Quest 2 is listed as BV 2456 : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7639/vision-quest-2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7639/vision-quest-2)

The official sheet in TRO Golden Century p 103 shows the BV as 2556.  The calcs from Mordel.net and the MechFactory app both agree with 2556 so I recommend you double-check the MUL value.

Mordel.Net calcs:
Code: [Select]
Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Vision Quest 2
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                        192 x 2.5 x 1               480.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 99 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    111.375  =   591.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5             (+)     30.000  =   621.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                   (*)       1.30  =   807.788
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           807.788

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                         
        6 (Base) + 26 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 31 (Weapons) = -1                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Gauss Rifle                                                          400.000             
       ER Large Laser                                                (+)    310.000  =   710.000
       ER Large Laser                                                (+)    310.000  = 1,020.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                          (+)     40.000  = 1,060.000
       Gauss Rifle (Ammo 8)                                          (+)     40.000  = 1,100.000
       ER Small Laser                                                (+)     38.750  = 1,138.750
       ER Small Laser                                                (+)     38.750  = 1,177.500
       ER Small Laser                                                (+)     38.750  = 1,216.250
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     60.000  = 1,276.250
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.370  = 1,748.463
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         1,748.463

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  807.788             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)  1,748.463  = 2,556.250
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             2,556
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 02 January 2022, 11:15:03
The Orion H is listed as BV 1199 : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7405/orion-on1-h (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7405/orion-on1-h)
That value does match the value on the official sheet in XTRO Primitives Vol 5, page 22 (and the sheet does appear to have the same equipment as listed in the TRO section on page 7).

I obviously don't have the original calculations for that sheet but I noticed that Mordel.net and MechFactory both calculate the BV as 1307 so I suggest you double-check the MV. 

From Mordel.Net:
Code: [Select]
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Primitive):                                         225 x 2.5 x 1              562.500             
  Internal Structure (Primitive w/ Primitive Fusion Engine): 114 x 1.5 x 1 x 1   (+)    171.000  =   733.500
  Gyro (Primitive):                                          75 x 0.5            (+)     37.500  =   771.000
  Explosive Ammunition:                                      4 Critical Spaces   (-)     60.000  =   711.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                                 +2                  (*)       1.20  =   853.200
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                       853.200

============================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                                     
        6 (Base) + 10 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 16 (Weapons) = -2                                       
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Autocannon/10 (Prototype)                                                        123.000             
       Medium Laser                                                              (+)     46.000  =   169.000
       Medium Laser                                                              (+)     46.000  =   215.000
       LRM 5                                                                     (+)     45.000  =   260.000
       LRM 5                                                                     (+)     45.000  =   305.000
       SRM 4                                                                     (+)     39.000  =   344.000
       Autocannon/10 (Prototype) (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     12.000  =   356.000
       Autocannon/10 (Prototype) (Ammo 8)                                        (+)     12.000  =   368.000
       LRM 5 (Ammo 24)                                                           (+)      6.000  =   374.000
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                                           (+)      5.000  =   379.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                           (+)     75.000  =   454.000
  Speed Factor:                                              5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.000  =   454.000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                       454.000

============================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              853.200             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                       (+)    454.000  = 1,307.200
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                         1,307

From MechFactory:
Code: [Select]
BATTLE VALUE 2 CALCULATION FOR Orion ON1-H

Configuration:1
1 Medium Laser:3 heat
1 SRM 4:3 heat
2 LRM 5:4 heat
1 Medium Laser:3 heat
1 PProto AC/10:3 heat
Internal Techbase: IS
Engine name:270 Primitive
Armor type:Primitive = x 1
Location armor points with factor: hd:9 lt:22 rt:22 ct:36 la:21 ra:21 ll:32 rl:32 ltb:10 rtb:10 ctb:10
Total Armor Factor = 225 x 2.5 = 562.5
Engine type:Primitive = x 1
Internal type: Standard = x 1
Total Internal Structure Points x 1.5 x 1 x 1 = 171
Gyro type: Gyro: = x 0.5
Gyro BV: 75 x 0.5 = 37.5
Defensive Equipments:0
SRM 4 Ammo(25) at lt (IS mech, non cased torso) -15
LRM 5 Ammo(24) at lt (IS mech, non cased torso) -15
PProto AC/10 Ammo(8) at rt (IS mech, non cased torso) -15
PProto AC/10 Ammo(8) at rt (IS mech, non cased torso) -15
Substract for detonating slots:60
Defensive BV:711
Maximum run: 5
At full run of 5 target modifier:2
Defensive factor:1.2
Total Defensive BV:853.2

Offensive BV Calculation
Heat Sink Capacity:10
Movement heat:2
Heat efficiency: (6+heat sink capacity - movementheat)=14
Full weapon heat:16
- PProto AC/10 (862) heat:3 base BV:123 x 1 = 123
- Adding ammo BV (24) = 24
- Medium Laser (12) heat:3 base BV:46 x 1 = 46
- Medium Laser (12) heat:3 base BV:46 x 1 = 46
- LRM 5 (39) heat:2 base BV:45 x 1 = 45
- LRM 5 (39) heat:2 base BV:45 x 1 = 45
- Adding ammo BV (6) = 6
- SRM 4 (54) heat:3 base BV:39 x 1 = 39
- Adding ammo BV (5) = 5
Total Weapon BV:379
Total Mass Factor:75
Offensive BV:454
Move:5 / sFactor:1
Total Offensive BV:454

Total BV2 : 1307
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 02 January 2022, 11:22:20
The Arion (Standard) is listed with a BV of 949 : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6252/arion-standard (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6252/arion-standard)

This does not agree with the 3145 Unabridged Record Sheet p 433 which has BV 849. Mordel.net and MechFactory both calculate the BV as 849 so it might be worthwhile to double-check the BV.

From Mordel.net:
Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Arion
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            35
Configuration:      QuadVee BattleMech

===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                            48 x 2.5 x 1               120.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 62 x 1.5 x 1 x 1    (+)     93.000  =   213.000
  Gyro (Standard):                                  35 x 0.5            (+)     17.500  =   230.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3                  (*)       1.30  =   299.650
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              299.650

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                               
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 18 (Weapons) = 6                               
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       ER Large Laser                                                          248.000             
       SRM 4                                                            (+)     39.000  =   287.000
       SRM 4                                                            (+)     39.000  =   326.000
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                                  (+)      5.000  =   331.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     35.000  =   366.000
  Speed Factor:                                     9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.500  =   549.000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                              549.000

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     299.650             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)    549.000  =   848.650
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                  849

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 02 January 2022, 17:35:53
Skinwalker D lacks availability
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8452/ryoken-iii-skinwalker-d

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 January 2022, 17:40:20
The four posts above have been confirmed and fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 02 January 2022, 18:38:56
Here is an eclectic mix of errata I came across over the holidays...

(Hopefully) Easy Fixes:
Tornado PA(L) P12 Hurricane: Two issues (may be related): The 5-trooper squad BV is listed as "0 Troopers" and the PVs on the differing squads is almost certainly off (4 & 5 trooper PV = 4; 6 trooper PV = 13)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5264/tornado-pal-p12-hurricane
Kage Light BA [ECM]: missing BV for its 5 and 6 trooper squads. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1733/kage-light-battle-armor-ecm
Fafnir 5B: Is both "Extinct" available to Lyrans in Late Republic era. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4153/fafnir-fnr-5b
Mithras Light Tank (std): Is both "Extinct" available to Escorpions in Early Rep, Late Rep, and Dark Age eras. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2193/mithras-light-tank-standard
Goliath 3M: While there's no explicit source to back it up, I am willing to bet the farm that FWL should have the 3M available during the Jihad era (they have it during Civil War and the non-aligned FWL have it in Early Republic).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8405/goliath-gol-3m2

Availability Errata
Crusader 4L: The timing of availability to Canopus and Fronc Reaches seems off (Fronc in Jihad and Late Rep, but not Early Rep; MoC for Early Rep and later.) Given availability of other CC units for these two factions, either Jihad Fronc availability should be moved to Early Rep, or MoC availability should start in Jihad (with Fronc added to Early Rep).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/757/crusader-crd-4l
Matador (std): I think the IS Clan-General availability tag for the Jihad era is an error. It's only available to the Vipers, Falcons, and Ravens in the earlier eras, as far as I can tell, it's only produced by the Vipers, and it has no availability post-Jihad (which usually suggests it disappeared post-Wars of Reaving for other MUL units).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2098/matador-standard
Savannah Master (SL): According to TR3039 'Variants' fluff, it should be extinct by the Civil War era (or even Clan Invasion era; was an inferior test bed variant). http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2806/savannah-master-hovercraft-sl
Bandit Hovercraft (C), and Badger Troop Transport (C) [all configurations]: According to Obj: Clans, Clan Wolf should have access to these two vehicles in the Jihad era, too (produced at Weingarten W7 starting in the 3070s).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Bandit+%28C%29+Hovercraft
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Badger+%28C%29+Tracked+Transport
St. Ives Compact Battle Armor: They don't have access to any on the MUL, but FM:CC (p. 35) states they have a platoon of BA assigned to each 'Mech regiment, with the suits purchased from the FedCom. My prior would be Infiltrator Is and IIs, but there is not specific guidance that I found.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=83&EraId=13
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=83&EraId=247

Filtvelt Coalition: I found two issues with Filtvelt.
1. It looks like they use the IS General list during the Jihad, but Periphery General list thereafter. My guess is that the Periphery one is correct (especially since the IS General list has Clan Tech and also has twice as many variants available as Filtvelt as actual Mechs at the time.  :o)
2. It looks like all non-General list Mechs and Aerospace become available to them in the Jihad Era, but Combat Vehicles become available to them in the Early Republic era. Given that Filtvelt was created in 3076, the vehicle availabilities are the likely errata and most of these these should also be available to them in the Jihad era, too.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=77&EraId=14

Rec Guide 24 stuff:
Atlas C 2 and Atlas C 3: Both of these have MUL intro dates around the start of the Golden Century, which is consistent with the icon on their RG.24 record sheets but inconsistent with the fluff in the Atlas' Variants fluff entry. The fluff states they were designed as refits across all Clans sometime after the Atlas C (and therefore later in the Clan Invasion era). [I'm guessing this also implies that the icon on the RS is an errata as well...]
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8431/atlas-c-2
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8432/atlas-c-3
Atlas AS7-K: This variant technically isn't in the RecGuide, but the same Variant fluff as above suggests that the FedCom got their hands on AS7-Ks during the 3050s, which they used as test beds to gain AS7-K-DCs and ultimately create the AS7-S3-DC. This means that the AS7-K should now have IS-General availability from Clan Invasion era forward (consistent with what the AS7-K-DC now has), on top of whatever Merc and Periphery factions currently have the AS7-K during those periods.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/144/atlas-as7-k
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3749/atlas-as7-k-dc (for reference)


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: S.gage on 02 January 2022, 20:21:38
ANH-5W is listsed as "Standard" Rules. The ANH-5W Annihilator requires "Mixed" techbase due to its Compact Gyro; TRO: Prototypes technology advancement table says this is an Advanced rule set after ~3082.

Suggested Fix: Change Rule set to "Advanced".


Duly noted, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 02 January 2022, 21:02:11
ANH-5W is listsed as "Standard" Rules. The ANH-5W Annihilator requires "Mixed" techbase due to its Compact Gyro; TRO: Prototypes technology advancement table says this is an Advanced rule set after ~3082.

Suggested Fix: Change Rule set to "Advanced".

RS3145 bumps this from Advanced to TL after 3082 instead. As such, the ANH-5W is fine as-is.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 02 January 2022, 21:23:48
Tornado PA(L) P12 Hurricane
Kage Light BA [ECM]

Definitely errors but require some math. Good thing I learned how to calculate PV for BA for the Elemental III  :)

Fafnir 5B:: should be extinct for LR
Mithras Light Tank (std): Extinct tags probably didn't get removed when the EI list was put together. They no longer use them by 3140
Goliath 3M: Investigation required

Availability Errata
Crusader 4L: Goof. Went back and checked my original notes and the froncs should have it in the ER and later. Jihad was probably an errant flip of the mouse wheel. By the DA the froncs are the only ones keeping the design from going extinct.
Matador (std): The IS Clan Gen is weird, yeah. It has the marking that it was added manually but I can't for the life of me figure out why
Savannah Master (SL): Investigating
Bandit Hovercraft (C), and Badger Troop Transport (C) [all configurations]:  Investigating
St. Ives Compact Battle Armor: Investigating

Filtvelt Coalition: I found two issues with Filtvelt.
1. Investigating
2. Almost certainty an error. Will see about adding combat vees into the jihad

Rec Guide 24 stuff:
Atlas C 2 and Atlas C 3: Investigating
Atlas AS7-K: investigating
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 03 January 2022, 01:10:15
Rec Guide 24 stuff:
Atlas C 2 and Atlas C 3: Investigating
Atlas AS7-K: investigating

Actually, you can scratch this one as not errata. I didn't notice that the Atlas C was retconned to be around since the Golden Century (pretty sure it was 3050 pre-Rec Guide), so the dates are all consistent. Sorry about that...  :-[ 

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 03 January 2022, 07:46:25
Filtvelt is intentional as IS General during the Jihad as they had split from Davion in that era. They obviously didn't remain there.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 January 2022, 01:40:50
Partial Resolution. Most of it was pretty straight forward

Tornado and Kage: Will have to work out the PVs manually

Goliath 3M: FWL: Non-Aligned Worlds added to Jihad. Pretty sure it was simply missed when we added that in.

Matador: Tweaked things a bit based on the original TR entry
    Civil War: Added Star Adders and Fire Mandrills
    Jihad: IS Clan Gen dumped, added CSA, CFM, CJF, CSR
    Early Republic: none in the IS, fate unknown

Savannah Master (SL): 3039 reference confirmed. Extinct starting in the Clan Invasion

Badger/Bandit: confirmed. added CWF for the jihad

St Ives BA: This was deemed sufficient representation. Adding IS Standard, Cavalier, Infiltrator Mk I, and MK II

Atlas C 2 and C 3 - as observed, the original Atlas C was pushed back to be a homeworlds invention.

AS7-K: The gymnastics necessary to explain how the fedcom guys had the -K-DC mod but not the base model were too much. FedCom, Lyrans, and Davionistas added for CI/CW/JI

Filtvelt: this one's on blocks in the back yard right now. Update will be posted at some point.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Firepigeon on 05 January 2022, 02:49:19
I think an easy fix to be made:


Thanks for all your great work.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 January 2022, 08:09:12
I think an easy fix to be made:

  • Grand Crusader GRN-D-02-B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8423/grand-crusader-grn-d-02-b) Alpha Strike Long Range damage is listed as 23.
  • Nova Cat T (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8421/nova-cat-t) Era is Clan Invasion (3050 - 3061). This is not in accordance with the Date Introduced: 3142.

Thanks for all your great work.

Thanks! Both have been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 05 January 2022, 23:54:12
The Annihilator ANH-5W's MUL entry is different than the Alpha Strike Card in the Wolf's Dragoon Assault Star Force Pack, and the MV looks to be incorrect. MV is listed as 8", I believe it should be 4". The AS Card has a S damage listed as 9 while the MUL is listed as 8.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8386/annihilator-anh-5w

Code: [Select]
The Alpha Strike Card

Name                 Armor Internal S M L E OV    Tons PV
Annihilator ANH-5W 8         8 9 10 6 0 0 100 62
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 January 2022, 23:57:02
wow i must have been extraordinarily tired or distracted when i entered that one

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 05 January 2022, 23:59:43
wow i must have been extraordinarily tired or distracted when i entered that one

fixed

Thanks!!!!

But a 8" -5W would be nice  ;D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 January 2022, 01:43:45
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3347/uller-kit-fox-prime

Image seems to be missing/broken for the Uller/Kit Fox (all of the variants that I checked)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 January 2022, 01:58:55
currently working on my end
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 06 January 2022, 09:03:49
Sweet! Congrats on another year of MUL awesomeness, btw.  :thumbsup:

Filtvelt: this one's on blocks in the back yard right now. Update will be posted at some point.
Ironically, just like the Coalition itself...

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 06 January 2022, 14:56:02
currently working on my end
Broke for me as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 06 January 2022, 16:50:38
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/753/crusader-crd-3r-crael

Is this supposed to have a 3040 date? Its from Royalty and Rogues, which is set in ~3057ish. Obviously its not going to appear right at 3057, I'm just wondering at the decision for 3040 is.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 January 2022, 17:02:08
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/753/crusader-crd-3r-crael

Is this supposed to have a 3040 date? Its from Royalty and Rogues, which is set in ~3057ish. Obviously its not going to appear right at 3057, I'm just wondering at the decision for 3040 is.

Yes, Crael had been piloting it a long time by then.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 January 2022, 17:57:19
Broke for me as well.

it seems i inadvertently nuked about ten images that affected around 100 variants. all of them have been fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 09 January 2022, 13:22:33
The Notos series of Mechs are listed here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/570/?action=post;last_msg=1795122 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/570/?action=post;last_msg=1795122)

I've noticed that both Mordel.net and MechFactory calculate slightly different BVs.  I will show the Mordel.net calcs here in case you would like to double-check the official values on MUL:

Code: [Select]
Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Notos A
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      QuadVee OmniMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1                500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   620.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5              (+)     30.000  =   650.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  =   845.488
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            845.488

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                             
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 8 (Weapons) = 16                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 20                                                267.000             
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 20 (Ammo 6)                                (+)     33.000  =   300.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 20 (Ammo 6)                                (+)     33.000  =   333.000
       ER Small Laser                                                 (+)     31.000  =   364.000
       ER Small Laser                                                 (+)     31.000  =   395.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     60.000  =   455.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  =   623.350
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            623.350

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   845.488             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    623.350  = 1,468.838
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,469

Code: [Select]
Name/Model:         Notos B
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      QuadVee OmniMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1                500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   620.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5              (+)     30.000  =   650.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  =   845.488
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            845.488

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                             
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 20 (Weapons) = 4                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       LRM 15                                                                164.000             
       LRM 15                                                         (+)    164.000  =   328.000
       ER Medium Laser                                                (+)    108.000  =   436.000
       ER Medium Laser                                                (+)    108.000  =   544.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                                (+)     21.000  =   565.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                                (+)     21.000  =   586.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                                (+)     21.000  =   607.000
       LRM 15 (Ammo 8)                                                (+)     21.000  =   628.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     60.000  =   688.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  =   942.560
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            942.560

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   845.488             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    942.560  = 1,788.048
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,788

Code: [Select]
Name/Model:         Notos C
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      QuadVee OmniMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1                500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   620.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5              (+)     30.000  =   650.375
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Active Probe                                                   (+)     12.000  =   662.375
       ECM Suite                                                      (+)     61.000  =   723.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  =   940.388
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            940.388

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 28 (Weapons) = -4                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                            93.000             
       Improved Heavy Medium Laser                                    (+)     93.000  =   186.000
       SRM 6                                                          (+)     59.000  =   245.000
       SRM 6                                                          (+)     59.000  =   304.000
       SRM 6                                                          (+)     59.000  =   363.000
       AP Gauss Rifle                           [Inefficient]         (+)     10.500  =   373.500
       AP Gauss Rifle                           [Inefficient]         (+)     10.500  =   384.000
       SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                                (+)      7.000  =   391.000
       SRM 6 (Ammo 15)                                                (+)      7.000  =   398.000
       AP Gauss Rifle (Ammo 40)                                       (+)      3.000  =   401.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     60.000  =   461.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  =   631.570
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            631.570

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   940.388             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    631.570  = 1,571.958
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,572

Code: [Select]
Name/Model:         Notos D
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      QuadVee OmniMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1                500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   620.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5              (+)     30.000  =   650.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +3                    (*)       1.30  =   845.488
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            845.488

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                             
        6 (Base) + 26 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 24 (Weapons) = 6                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Large Laser                                                        310.000             
       ER Large Laser                                                 (+)    310.000  =   620.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     60.000  =   680.000
  Speed Factor:                                 8 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.370  =   931.600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                            931.600

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   845.488             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)    931.600  = 1,777.088
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              1,777

Code: [Select]
Name/Model:         Notos PRIME
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            60
Configuration:      QuadVee OmniMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                             200 x 2.5 x 1                500.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   620.375
  Gyro (Standard):                              60 x 0.5              (+)     30.000  =   650.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                    (*)       1.40  =   910.525
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            910.525

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                             
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 20 (Weapons) = 4                             
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Medium Pulse Laser                                                    138.750             
       Medium Pulse Laser                                             (+)    138.750  =   277.500
       Medium Pulse Laser                                             (+)    138.750  =   416.250
       Medium Pulse Laser                                             (+)    138.750  =   555.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                             (+)    138.750  =   693.750
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     60.000  =   753.750
  Speed Factor:                                 10 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.630  = 1,228.613
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,228.613

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   910.525             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,228.613  = 2,139.138
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,139
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 09 January 2022, 21:15:53
I don't know if this is an issue or error, per se, but the Centurion's art is terrible in the sense that it looks like it was shrunk in Paint and then blown back up:

(https://i.ibb.co/WxCMSMM/centurion-rg.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 January 2022, 21:58:40
the RS in the recguide didn't come out the best. fortunately, a cleaner version existed

(https://i.ibb.co/RP1b0kq/centurion-rg.png)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 January 2022, 22:03:19
I've noticed that both Mordel.net and MechFactory calculate slightly different BVs.  I will show the Mordel.net calcs here in case you would like to double-check the official values on MUL:

Looks like both Mordel and the current version of MML are in the right here.
From what I see, the old Notos values were calculated using the unit's max MP (AKA, it's 6/9 vehicular movement profile) instead of its max 'Mech MP (being 5/8).

Notos BV values have been updated accordingly.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 10 January 2022, 01:44:49
Possible Errata:

BLK-NT-5H is 75 tons and has a Light fusion Engine.  Conversion rules state that is should have 4 structure, but MUL cars has it with 3 structure. 

Possible fix:  change structure to four pips.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 10 January 2022, 04:06:03
Actually, you can scratch this one as not errata. I didn't notice that the Atlas C was retconned to be around since the Golden Century (pretty sure it was 3050 pre-Rec Guide), so the dates are all consistent. Sorry about that...  :-[

You are correct, but this does introduce another complication.

The Atlas C is now a refit of the base Atlas from 2830.  However, as it currently stands the Clans didn't have any Atlases to upgrade at that time.  It wasn't a problem when it was just being used to upgrade captured IS Atlases.  I'd also note that the text specifically calls out "most Atlases and Atlas IIs in Clan space", so it's not just an Atlas II refit..  Should there be availability of the Atlas for some or all of the Clans during the Early Succession Wars era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 January 2022, 08:48:20
BLK-NT-5H is 75 tons and has a Light fusion Engine.  Conversion rules state that is should have 4 structure, but MUL cars has it with 3 structure. 

Possible fix:  change structure to four pips.

Thank, you, fixed!

The Atlas C is now a refit of the base Atlas from 2830.  However, as it currently stands the Clans didn't have any Atlases to upgrade at that time.  It wasn't a problem when it was just being used to upgrade captured IS Atlases.  I'd also note that the text specifically calls out "most Atlases and Atlas IIs in Clan space", so it's not just an Atlas II refit..  Should there be availability of the Atlas for some or all of the Clans during the Early Succession Wars era?

Very true. Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 10 January 2022, 16:27:30
Hi,

The Blade XS is listed as BV 944 - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/392/blade-bld-xs

The Record Sheet on p. 97 of Record Sheets 3085 Cutting Edge shows the BV as 1000.  The calculations from Mordel.net and MechFactory both come up with 1000 so you may wish to check that one.  I'm attaching the Mordel calcs for your reference.

Code: [Select]
Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Blade BLD-XS
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            35
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1               295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5   (+)     43.500  =   338.500
  Gyro (XL):                                    35 x 0.5             (+)     17.500  =   356.000
  Explosive Ammunition:                         1 Critical Space     (-)     15.000  =   341.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  =   477.400
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           477.400

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 13 (Weapons) = 11                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Autocannon/10                                                        123.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   185.000
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   247.000
       Autocannon/10 (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     15.000  =   262.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     35.000  =   297.000
  Speed Factor:                                 11 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.760  =   522.720
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           522.720

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  477.400             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    522.720  = 1,000.120
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,000

Thanks

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 January 2022, 16:38:09
Hi,

The Blade XS is listed as BV 944 - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/392/blade-bld-xs

The Record Sheet on p. 97 of Record Sheets 3085 Cutting Edge shows the BV as 1000.  The calculations from Mordel.net and MechFactory both come up with 1000 so you may wish to check that one.  I'm attaching the Mordel calcs for your reference.

Code: [Select]
Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Blade BLD-XS
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            35
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                  118 x 2.5 x 1               295.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XL Engine): 58 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5   (+)     43.500  =   338.500
  Gyro (XL):                                    35 x 0.5             (+)     17.500  =   356.000
  Explosive Ammunition:                         1 Critical Space     (-)     15.000  =   341.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                    +4                   (*)       1.40  =   477.400
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                           477.400

================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 13 (Weapons) = 11                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Autocannon/10                                                        123.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   185.000
       ER Medium Laser                                               (+)     62.000  =   247.000
       Autocannon/10 (Ammo 10)                                       (+)     15.000  =   262.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                               (+)     35.000  =   297.000
  Speed Factor:                                 11 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.760  =   522.720
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                           522.720

================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                  477.400             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                           (+)    522.720  = 1,000.120
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             1,000

Thanks

In this case here---barring additional errata for TRO3085:S---the MUL is correct. The RS for the Blade XS in RS3085CE was incorrect, as the TRO stated that the variant used standard medium lasers instead of ERs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Morally on 10 January 2022, 21:19:31
ilClan Recognition Guide Vol 23 has this paragraph about Wolf's Dragoons fielding multiple Fujins under the Battle History section of the Fujin lore page.

Quote
The Fujin proved its worth to Wolf’s Dragoons on New Avalon in 3146 after the Second Robinson Rangers broke through the New Avalon blockade. Gamma Regiment slammed headlong into the Rangers. Dragoon Fujins shrugged off Ranger autocannon shells as they plowed through their lines. The Rangers were devastated.

However, it isn't listed under Wolf's Dragoon's Dark Age options, only Draconis Combine?

Is this quote enough to merit an entry?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 January 2022, 22:09:49
In this case, yes. I had meant to add them to the list, and it quite simply slipped my mind.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 11 January 2022, 18:01:02
The BNC-12S Banshee is listed as being Advanced rules level.  Per the record sheet in Recognition Guide 17, it should be Standard rules level.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 January 2022, 21:09:39
The BNC-12S Banshee is listed as being Advanced rules level.  Per the record sheet in Recognition Guide 17, it should be Standard rules level.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Firepigeon on 12 January 2022, 02:29:42
Tunnel Rat I Mining Exoskeleton [Armored Glove] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5303/tunnel-rat-i-mining-exoskeleton-armored-glove) Faction Availability has listed for the Jihad (3068 - 3080) - IS Clan General.
I believe this is in error on account that for the Eras before and after are Inner Sphere General and I do not find in the fluff of TRVAr any reference for it to be used by the IS Clans.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 January 2022, 02:32:40
yup. simple data entry error. the two are directly next to each other on the list.

fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 12 January 2022, 12:15:54
Some of these types of things are used as an analog for a similar but unspecifed unit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Firepigeon on 13 January 2022, 03:17:10
Gray Death Scout Suit (Standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1275/gray-death-scout-suit-standard)
and
Gray Death Standard Suit [MG] (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1279/gray-death-standard-suit-mg)

In both on the Early Republic (3081 - 3100) has listed Lyran Alliance when it should be Lyran Commonwealth.
Reasoning: Lyran Alliance no longer exists in 3081-3100, it has been replaced back with Lyran Commonwealth.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 January 2022, 04:14:40
for many years the Jihad was set to end on the MUL in 3085. The name changes back from Lyran Alliance to Lyran Commonwealth in 3084 so there wasn't much to consider. To match published materials, we recently moved the end of the Jihad to 3080, which means the LA now exists for a small window in the Early Republic. This also happened to the Outworlds Alliance before it merged with the Ravens. Therefore, like the clan invasion, the LA will need to be added in addition to the LC for all Lyran units available during that hangover. Ugh. [I have been mercifully informed that this is not a necessary step. Just use the LC list for those overhang years. There are, however, about a hundred units that have only LA tags for Early Republic so those need to be switched out. All in all a win for organization]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention



 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Firepigeon on 14 January 2022, 07:24:32
Thanks for looking into it.


One thing I find odd is that for many of the Elemental Battle Armors the Introduction Date is 28xx, but the factions availability list only starts on Clan Invasion (3050 - 3061). I really do not know enough to say if this is incorrect or not, I just find it strange.


Examples:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/961/elemental-battle-armor-mg
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/958/elemental-battle-armor-flamer
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 14 January 2022, 08:10:47
One thing I find odd is that for many of the Elemental Battle Armors the Introduction Date is 28xx, but the factions availability list only starts on Clan Invasion (3050 - 3061). I really do not know enough to say if this is incorrect or not, I just find it strange.

We have yet to set availabilities for Clan units first introduced in the Early Succession Wars era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 14 January 2022, 09:12:41
To add to that: Figuring out the early clan years has been A Process™️ and there is no eta as it is a very laborious task. That said, we are very pleased to tackle it as it is the final major hole in availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Firepigeon on 14 January 2022, 11:32:06
Thank you for the information and all your work.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 14 January 2022, 15:18:30
I believe there is a strong case for adding the Linebacker to the Lyran Commonwealth in the Dark Age era.
It's produced in Donegal in the same factory that produces the Sojourner, Puma and Fenris all available to the Lyrans. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 15 January 2022, 10:16:25
Hi,
The Revenant UBM-2R7 is from 3145U p 375 of the PDF and here: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6717/revenant-ubm-2r7 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6717/revenant-ubm-2r7)

The listed BV is 460.  I notice that Mordel.net and MechFactory both calculated 472 so I wanted to offer Mordel calcs below in case you want to double-check this one.
Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Revenant UBM-2R7
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            30
Configuration:      Quad BattleMech

===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                                 96 x 2.5 x 1               240.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Fusion Engine): 55 x 1.5 x 1 x 1    (+)     82.500  =   322.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                  30 x 0.5            (+)     15.000  =   337.500
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Bridgelayer, Medium                                              (+)     10.000  =   347.500
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +3                  (*)       1.30  =   451.750
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              451.750

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                               
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) = 24                                             
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     30.000  =    30.000
  Speed Factor:                                     9 (Run) + 0 (Jump)  (*)      1.500  =    45.000
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                               45.000

===================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     451.750             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)     45.000  =   496.750
  Cockpit (Small, Drone):                                               (*)       0.95  =   471.913
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                  472

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 15 January 2022, 11:53:17
Hi,
I was looking at the BVs for both Mjolinirs:
-B2 (655 BV) : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2194/mjolnir-mlr-b2
-BX (597 BV) : http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2195/mjolnir-mlr-bx
the record sheets are found in 3085 Cutting Edge pp. 87-88  .  The equipment listed on these sheets seems correct per the language in the 3085 TRO p .60

Both Mordel.net and MechFactory calculated 670 and 612 for the -B2 and -Bx, respectively.  I will add the Mordel calcs below in case you want to double-check the values:

Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Mjolnir MLR-B2
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            25
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

==================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                          80 x 2.5 x 1                200.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ Fusion Engine): 43 x 1.5 x 1 x 1     (+)     64.500  =   264.500
  Gyro (Standard):                                25 x 0.5             (+)     12.500  =   277.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                      +4                   (*)       1.40  =   387.800
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                             387.800

==================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                             
        6 (Base) + 10 (Heat Sinks) - 6 (Movement) - 7 (Weapons) = 3                               
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       ER Medium Laser                                                         62.000             
       ER Small Laser                                                  (+)     17.000  =    79.000
       Mace                                                            (+)     14.000  =    93.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                 (+)     37.500  =   130.500
  Speed Factor:                                   11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)  (*)      2.160  =   281.880
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                             281.880

==================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                    387.800             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                             (+)    281.880  =   669.680
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                 670


Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Mjolnir MLR-BX
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            25
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Fibrous):                      80 x 2.5 x 1                200.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 43 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5   (+)     32.250  =   232.250
  Gyro (XL):                                  25 x 0.5             (+)     12.500  =   244.750
  Explosive Ammunition:                       1 Critical Space     (-)     15.000  =   229.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4                   (*)       1.40  =   321.650
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         321.650

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                         
        6 (Base) + 10 (Heat Sinks) - 6 (Movement) - 6 (Weapons) = 4                           
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       SRM 4                                                               39.000             
       SRM 4                                                       (+)     39.000  =    78.000
       Mace                                                        (+)     14.000  =    92.000
       SRM 4 (Ammo 25)                                             (+)      5.000  =    97.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)     37.500  =   134.500
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)  (*)      2.160  =   290.520
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         290.520

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                321.650             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)    290.520  =   612.170
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                             612

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 15 January 2022, 17:13:57
The Nightsky NGS-6T is listed as BV 1430 - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2284/nightsky-ngs-6t
The record sheet is in 3085U - ONN, page 80 of the PDF.

I notice that  Mordel.net and MechFactory calculate the BV as 1462.  I will add the Mordel calcs here in case you would like to double-check the BV:

Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Nightsky NGS-6T
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            50
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

==============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                           152 x 2.5 x 1               380.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 83 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5   (+)     62.250  =   442.250
  Gyro (Standard):                            50 x 0.5             (+)     25.000  =   467.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4                   (*)       1.40  =   654.150
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                         654.150

==============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                       
        6 (Base) + 22 (Heat Sinks) - 6 (Movement) - 25 (Weapons) = -3                         
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                       
       Large Pulse Laser                                                  119.000             
       ER Medium Laser                                             (+)     62.000  =   181.000
       Medium Pulse Laser                                          (+)     48.000  =   229.000
       Hatchet                                                     (+)     30.000  =   259.000
       ER Small Laser                                              (+)     17.000  =   276.000
       ER Small Laser                                              (+)     17.000  =   293.000
       Small Pulse Laser                      [Inefficient]        (+)      6.000  =   299.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                             (+)     75.000  =   374.000
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)  (*)      2.160  =   807.840
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                         807.840

==============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                654.150             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                         (+)    807.840  = 1,461.990
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                           1,462

Hope its helpful, sorry if I missed something. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 15 January 2022, 17:51:52
Thank you! All of the above has been confirmed and corrected.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 January 2022, 00:58:26
I believe there is a strong case for adding the Linebacker to the Lyran Commonwealth in the Dark Age era.
It's produced in Donegal in the same factory that produces the Sojourner, Puma and Fenris all available to the Lyrans.

under investigation
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 17 January 2022, 03:35:50
Question which may be out of scope - is there a reason why the Hunter Assault Tank (20-ton wheeled vehicle with PPC in turret) has not been added to the MUL, while other non-mainline units such as the Falcon, LTV-4, and Weapons Carrier A have made the cut?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 17 January 2022, 11:38:06
I was going through the Coyotes unit access and noticed they were missing the Grendel (Mongrel.) It’s listed on page 172, Clan Coyote Medium Frontline RAT in 1998’s Field Manual: Warden Clans.  It doesn’t show up in 2003s Field Manual: Updates RATs (12 slot replaced by the Rabid Coyote) or 2012s The Wars of Reaving: Supplemental (expanded RAT style.).

I didn’t know if this was an error, oversight, or intentional!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: 1N51 on 17 January 2022, 16:40:20
Wolf's Dragoons have some Fortress Class Dropships according to the Novel "Wolfpack" and the Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook (FASA 1631). This is not covered in the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 January 2022, 16:42:47
Question which may be out of scope - is there a reason why the Hunter Assault Tank (20-ton wheeled vehicle with PPC in turret) has not been added to the MUL, while other non-mainline units such as the Falcon, LTV-4, and Weapons Carrier A have made the cut?

I was going through the Coyotes unit access and noticed they were missing the Grendel (Mongrel.) It’s listed on page 172, Clan Coyote Medium Frontline RAT in 1998’s Field Manual: Warden Clans.  It doesn’t show up in 2003s Field Manual: Updates RATs (12 slot replaced by the Rabid Coyote) or 2012s The Wars of Reaving: Supplemental (expanded RAT style.).

I didn’t know if this was an error, oversight, or intentional!  Thanks!

Both of these are under investigation

Wolf's Dragoons have some Fortress Class Dropships according to the Novel "Wolfpack" and the Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook (FASA 1631). This is not covered in the MUL.

Such references often qualify. Can anyone verify some page numbers?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 17 January 2022, 18:23:42
Fortress arrived in Wolf Pack Ch. 53

There's three Fortresses in Wolf's Dragoons, Luanda (p. 55), Otsu (76), Wexford (88)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 17 January 2022, 18:54:43
Both of these are under investigation

Such references often qualify. Can anyone verify some page numbers?

Re: Fortress Class

1631, pp. 55, 69 (Loch Lomont), 76, 88, every page mentions one individual DS, so 4 all together.
Confirm Wolfpack ch. 53.
Also checked WotB, but couldn't find the term "Fortress" there.
HTH.

edit: MHB55 still lists two of those four after the Clan invasion and the Dragoon civil war: Wexford, Otsu on pp. 44 and 46.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 January 2022, 21:00:43
Thanks! that will speed things along
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DericStrider on 18 January 2022, 05:15:52
In field manual and era report 3145 Seafox units to be rolled in rules annex show IS units such as Men Shen and cadaver but do not appear in the MUL. Are these considered fluff salvage and used by seafoxes or had this been errataed out
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 18 January 2022, 05:57:55
Should Clan Jade Falcon have access to both variants of the Phoenix Hawk L light mech? They only gain it in the Dark Age era, and have next to no contact or borders with the other factions that use it, and similarly limited salvage opportunities.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 18 January 2022, 12:51:50
Question/Errata

MUL Entry for MAD-10D Marauder II.  Mech has a Large Re-Engineered Laser for Alpha Strike Damage of 0.9/0.9/0.  Since this rounds to one, shouldn't this mech have the REL Special?

Also, I did a search, but I'm having Deja Vu.  Pardon me if I've asked this one before.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 18 January 2022, 22:11:51
Ignore…. No idea why my phone decided to send me to Civil War era instead of Clan Invasion era.  Sheesh…
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 18 January 2022, 22:19:43
Curious why the Capellan Confederation has access to the Firemoth/Dasher, Mist Lynx/Koshi, Arctic Cheetah/Hankyu, Adder/Puma, Viper/Dragonfly, Ice-ferret/Fenris, Nova/Black Hawk, Hellbringer/Loki, Summoner/Thor, Gargoyle/Man of War, Warhawk/Masakari, Kingfisher, Executioner/Gladiator, and Dire Wolf/Daishi Omnimechs when the Lyran Commonwealth, Lyran Alliance, Federated Commonwealth, and Federated Suns do not in the Clan Invasion era?
None of those 'Mechs are available to the Capellan Confederation in the clan Invasion era.
They are available to the Capellan Confederation in the Civil War era, the exact same access the Lyrans, FedCom and Fed Suns have.  That's the list of omnis we gave to the IS General list to represent the spoils from the Smoke Jaguars.

So the Fire Moth in the Clan Invasion era has HW Clan General, IS Clan General and Wolf's Dragoons as the only factions.
The Fire Moth in the Civil War era has HW Clan General, IS Clan General and Wolf's Dragoons from the Clan Invasion era, plus IS General (Capellans get access from this), Kell Hounds and Mercenary to give them options for salvaged Clan units.

If you see somewhere listing Capellan Confederation having access to those in the Clan Invasion era, let me know where specifically you found it.  I checked the first two (Fire Moth and Mist Lynx) and both were listed as above.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 18 January 2022, 23:05:53
Apparently my phone decided that even though I stabbed the Clan Invasion era for my research purposes (which wasn’t about OmniMechs) it would look at the Civil War section instead!  Apologies… I was literally coming here to delete when I went to repeat my search.  Embarrassed now  :-[
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 19 January 2022, 08:33:27
Question/Errata

MUL Entry for MAD-10D Marauder II.  Mech has a Large Re-Engineered Laser for Alpha Strike Damage of 0.9/0.9/0.  Since this rounds to one, shouldn't this mech have the REL Special?

Also, I did a search, but I'm having Deja Vu.  Pardon me if I've asked this one before.

REL should be determined based on heat-modified damage, and prior to final rounding. In the case of the MAD-10D, the heat-modified pre-final rounding damage value at medium range is 0.8. Because of that it doesn't get REL. I'll post something in the ASC errata thread so this is more clear.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 19 January 2022, 11:21:31
REL should be determined based on heat-modified damage, and prior to final rounding. In the case of the MAD-10D, the heat-modified pre-final rounding damage value at medium range is 0.8. Because of that it doesn't get REL. I'll post something in the ASC errata thread so this is more clear.

Well, I hate to out my own factions mechs, but if that is the rule, then the new ENF-5R should lose the REL special ability. 

I'm surprised that 0.8 doesn't round to one in this sense, since the REL special isn't exactly game breaking.  But I'll take my sentiments and grumble in my coffee.  Thanks for the clarification Mordel!

After thinking about it, I found a couple more mechs on the MUL that have the REL special but not the full point of REL damage.  These should also lose the REL special (if I understand the rule correctly)

Ebony MEB-13
Spider SDR-10K
Wolfhound WLF-6S

(These, in addition to the Enforcer, all feature a single Large Reengineered Laser).

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 19 January 2022, 15:25:18
Well, I hate to out my own factions mechs, but if that is the rule, then the new ENF-5R should lose the REL special ability. 

I'm surprised that 0.8 doesn't round to one in this sense, since the REL special isn't exactly game breaking.  But I'll take my sentiments and grumble in my coffee.  Thanks for the clarification Mordel!

After thinking about it, I found a couple more mechs on the MUL that have the REL special but not the full point of REL damage.  These should also lose the REL special (if I understand the rule correctly)

Ebony MEB-13
Spider SDR-10K
Wolfhound WLF-6S

(These, in addition to the Enforcer, all feature a single Large Reengineered Laser).

So, there's a few things going on here...

Firstly, the damage for the Large Re-engineered Laser was changed to 0.945 in errata; which does matter as we'll see shortly.
Secondly, The Marauder suffers from overheating so that damage value is lowered slightly before heat-modified rounding, whereas the Ebony (and likely the others) do not, so that damage values stays at 0.945.

The key here is the "final" rounding. The final rounding is when you round up to the nearest whole number. But there is a step before this that is considered heat-modified rounding, where you round up to the nearest tenth. For the Marauder, this heat-modified rounded value is 0.8. Because the Ebony does not overheat and does not modify it's damage due to heat, the 0.945 rounds up to 1 BEFORE the final damage value rounding.

It's definitely not a cut-and-dry thing you can necessarily ascertain by a quick look at the stat sheet, and there is a lot of math involved.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 22 January 2022, 07:30:34
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5006-1 (new rec guide version) has a listed movement of 6”J/10”J. Remove the first iteration of J in its movement profile.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 22 January 2022, 08:16:12
Katana (Crockett) CRK-5006-1 (new rec guide version) has a listed movement of 6”J/10”J. Remove the first iteration of J in its movement profile.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 22 January 2022, 14:43:02
Both of these are under investigation

Many thanks! It would add a little needed variety to wheeled combat vehicle options.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 23 January 2022, 20:06:34
Do you know of a record sheet for the Hunter? The others are from thebold Record Sheet Volume 5 but the Hunter in there is the same as the later versions (35 tons).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 23 January 2022, 20:37:57
Is the Bowman (Prototype) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3856/bowman-prototype) the same machine as the Bowman 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5691/bowman-4)?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 23 January 2022, 21:36:56
Do you know of a record sheet for the Hunter? The others are from thebold Record Sheet Volume 5 but the Hunter in there is the same as the later versions (35 tons).

The 20t Hunter is/was from a TCI model kit, probably from the time when BT was still BattleDroids. Sarna has some history on the Hunter (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunter_Assault_Tank) and TCI kits in general (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/TCI_Model_Sets). If there ever was a record sheet, it was probably a single sheet packed with the model box.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 24 January 2022, 05:39:50
Vulture Mk IV (Mad Dog Mk IV) D

Under its specials section it is given IF2. ATMs (it’s only missile weapon) do not receive the IF special, thus it should be removed. This could change the PV.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 24 January 2022, 08:28:41
Vulture Mk IV (Mad Dog Mk IV) D

Under its specials section it is given IF2. ATMs (it’s only missile weapon) do not receive the IF special, thus it should be removed. This could change the PV.

Thank you, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 January 2022, 00:59:53
Should the Mastodon A have the CASE II special?
It has only a regular CASE protecting the Gauss Rifle in the arm. Not sure if because of reinforced structure it gets a pass or not.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 25 January 2022, 01:06:59
Should the Mastodon A have the CASE II special?
It has only a regular CASE protecting the Gauss Rifle in the arm. Not sure if because of reinforced structure it gets a pass or not.

Same deal with the Mastodon D, it has a ton of ammo in each arm only protected by CASE.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Henning on 25 January 2022, 06:47:39
In the Force Builder function (Alpha Strike Builder & Total Warfare Builder) there is a bug with the Battle Armour:
When adding a unit of Battle Armour the builder automatically chooses the 4-man-squad and i cannot switch to a 5- or 6-man squad instead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 January 2022, 07:42:29
Unfortunately this is a limitation of the platform. Apologies for the inconvenience
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Henning on 25 January 2022, 07:43:46
Unfortunately this is a limitation of the platform. Apologies for the inconvenience

Thanks for the reply - thought this might be solved, but it cannot be helped then.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 January 2022, 09:28:34
Same deal with the Mastodon D, it has a ton of ammo in each arm only protected by CASE.

Both units have CASE II; it's simply not listed at the top of the location in question.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 January 2022, 10:39:34
Question which may be out of scope - is there a reason why the Hunter Assault Tank (20-ton wheeled vehicle with PPC in turret) has not been added to the MUL, while other non-mainline units such as the Falcon, LTV-4, and Weapons Carrier A have made the cut?

After discussion, we have chosen not to include this Hunter on the MUL at this point in time. This was decided on for a few reasons:
1) The TCI kits are considered apocryphal at this point in time, and are not fully canon.
2) This version of the Hunter was never reprinted in another product, while the others you listed do have canon--if at times dated--record sheets.
3) The Hunter's specs, as listed in the TCI kit, are illegal and cannot be exactly replicated under the current ruleset.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 25 January 2022, 11:49:30
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6260/wulfen-d

Wulfen D should have a medium range damage of 1, not 0*

SRM2 with Artemis V has a damage value of 0.42
LB 2-X has a damage value of 0.105

this is more than 0.5 before any rounding, there is no heat-modification (10 doubles and a maximum of 19 heat) and finally should round up to 1.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 January 2022, 12:17:11
Is the Bowman (Prototype) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3856/bowman-prototype) the same machine as the Bowman 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5691/bowman-4)?

Yep. The (Prototype) has been culled.

Wulfen D should have a medium range damage of 1, not 0*

SRM2 with Artemis V has a damage value of 0.42
LB 2-X has a damage value of 0.105

this is more than 0.5 before any rounding, there is no heat-modification (10 doubles and a maximum of 19 heat) and finally should round up to 1.

Hmm. Due to rounding during the heat-modified damage step, it looks like SR damage needs to be boosted up to 1 as well.
Fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Starbuck on 25 January 2022, 12:33:00
Hmm. Due to rounding during the heat-modified damage step, it looks like SR damage needs to be boosted up to 1 as well.
Fixed!

what about the note about "before rounding" (from converting heat errata v1.2)?

Minimal Damage: As noted under the general
conversion rules for weapons (see p. 99), any weapon
bracket that delivers more than 0 points of damage, but less
than 0.5 damage (before rounding), receives a Minimal
Damage value (0*) at that range bracket.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 January 2022, 12:47:41
what about the note about "before rounding" (from converting heat errata v1.2)?

Minimal Damage: As noted under the general
conversion rules for weapons (see p. 99), any weapon
bracket that delivers more than 0 points of damage, but less
than 0.5 damage (before rounding), receives a Minimal
Damage value (0*) at that range bracket.


This passage is only meant to refer to the rounding that occurs during the final damage step, and not the rounding of the heat-modified damage step.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 25 January 2022, 19:53:27
After discussion, we have chosen not to include this Hunter on the MUL at this point in time. This was decided on for a few reasons:
1) The TCI kits are considered apocryphal at this point in time, and are not fully canon.
2) This version of the Hunter was never reprinted in another product, while the others you listed do have canon--if at times dated--record sheets.
3) The Hunter's specs, as listed in the TCI kit, are illegal and cannot be exactly replicated under the current ruleset.
+1 for consistency, and +1 more for explaining your reasoning!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Valkerie on 26 January 2022, 20:13:55
Howdy guys.  Just stumbled on an oddity.  AS card for the Griffin IIC (Standard) has the special ability of OVL, but it has an OV value of 0.

(http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/1310?skill=4)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 26 January 2022, 22:06:58
Howdy guys.  Just stumbled on an oddity.  AS card for the Griffin IIC (Standard) has the special ability of OVL, but it has an OV value of 0.

Fixed! Thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 28 January 2022, 09:38:28
Hi,

The Malice MAL-YZ is currently listed at 2949 BV - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6727/malice-mal-yz (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6727/malice-mal-yz)
The sheet on p 395 of 3145 Unabridged also has 2949.

Both Mordel.net and MechFactory come up with 2982 BV.  I will add Mordel's calcs below in case you want to double check this one.  It is a complicated mixed-tech design with armored components and modular armor.
Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Malice MAL-YZ
Technology:         Clan (Mixed)
Tonnage:            100
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Lamellor):                        371 x 2.5 x 1.2           1,113.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XXL Engine): 152 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    114.000  = 1,227.000
  Gyro (Compact):                                100 x 0.5            (+)     50.000  = 1,277.000
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                (+)    100.000  = 1,377.000
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                      (+)     45.000  = 1,422.000
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                      (+)     45.000  = 1,467.000
  Armored Components:                                                                           
       Compact Gyro (IS)                                              (+)      5.000  = 1,472.000
       Hip                                                            (+)      5.000  = 1,477.000
       Hip                                                            (+)      5.000  = 1,482.000
       XXL Engine                                                     (+)     70.000  = 1,552.000
  Explosive Equipment:                           2 Critical Spaces    (-)      2.000  = 1,550.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                     +2                   (*)       1.20  = 1,860.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,860.000

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 24 (Heat Sinks) + 5 (Coolant Pods) - 6 (Movement w/ XXL) - 44 (Weapons) = -15
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Large Pulse Laser                                                     265.000             
       Large Pulse Laser                                              (+)    265.000  =   530.000
       ER Large Laser                                                 (+)    248.000  =   778.000
       ER Large Laser                            [Inefficient]        (+)    124.000  =   902.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)    100.000  = 1,002.000
  Speed Factor:                                  6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.120  = 1,122.240
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,122.240

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,860.000             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,122.240  = 2,982.240
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,982
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 28 January 2022, 10:27:38
Hi,

The Warhammer WHM-X7 "The Lich" is listed as 1807 BV on Page 8 of XTRO Gunslingers and on MUL- http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3499/warhammer-whm-x7-the-lich (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3499/warhammer-whm-x7-the-lich)

It's a minor difference but Mordel.net and MechFactory are coming up with 1803 BV.  I will add the calcs from Mordel in case you want to review this one:
Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Warhammer WHM-X7 "The Lich"
Technology:         Inner Sphere (Mixed)
Tonnage:            70
Configuration:      Biped FrankenMech

===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                            212 x 2.5 x 1                530.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   650.375
  Gyro (Heavy-Duty):                                      70 x 1                (+)     70.000  =   720.375
  Armored Components:                                                                                     
       Cockpit                                                                  (+)      5.000  =   725.375
       Light Fusion Engine                                                      (+)     50.000  =   775.375
       Sensors                                                                  (+)     10.000  =   785.375
  Explosive Equipment:                                    3 Critical Spaces     (-)      3.000  =   782.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +2                    (*)       1.20  =   938.850
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                      938.850

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                                     
        6 (Base) + 26 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 52 (Weapons) = -22                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Snub-Nose PPC w/ Capacitor                                                      252.000             
       Snub-Nose PPC w/ Capacitor                                               (+)    252.000  =   504.000
       Streak SRM 6 (C)                                   [Inefficient]         (+)     59.000  =   563.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   594.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   625.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   656.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   687.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15) (C)                                               (+)     15.000  =   702.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     70.000  =   772.000
  Speed Factor:                                           6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.120  =   864.640
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                      864.640

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                             938.850             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)    864.640  = 1,803.490
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        1,803

I think the equipment in the above calcs is correct but I apologize if I missed something.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 28 January 2022, 11:47:05
Goliath 3S (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1233/goliath-gol-3s) BV changed to 1792 with newly errata'd record sheet (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/msg1802371/#msg1802371).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 28 January 2022, 13:38:18
The Gestalt G2X-G is listed as 2392 BV - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4209/gestalt-d2x-g (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4209/gestalt-d2x-g)
The from Jihad Final Reckoning p. 163 shows 2542 .

Both Mordel.net and MechFactory calculate 2329 BV for this one.  The equipment used in their calcs does match the equipment on the sheet, and the TRO section on pp. 149-150.   I will add Mordel's calcs below if you wish to double-check this one:

Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Gestalt D2X-G
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            45
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous):                148 x 2.5 x 1                  370.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     56.250  =   426.250
  Gyro (None):                                45 x 0.5                (+)     22.500  =   448.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                (+)    100.000  =   548.750
  Explosive Equipment:                        5 Critical Spaces       (-)      5.000  =   543.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   761.250
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            761.250

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 6 (Movement) - 10 (Void-Signature) - 30 (Weapons) = -20     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Heavy PPC w/ Capacitor                                                370.000             
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]           (+)     31.000  =   401.000
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]           (+)     31.000  =   432.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   477.000
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  = 1,030.320
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,030.320

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   761.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,030.320  = 1,791.570
  Cockpit (Interface):                                                (*)       1.30  = 2,329.041
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,329
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 29 January 2022, 16:10:47
The Centipede Scout Car (Wheeled Fusion) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3918/centipede-scout-car-wheeled-fusion) and Centipede Scout Car (Wheeled ICE) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3919/centipede-scout-car-wheeled-ice) are listed as variants of the Centipede (Hover). TRO3025 (p. 176) has the wheeled Centipede as a variant of the Swift Wind (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3145/swift-wind-scout-car-standard), while TRO:3058 (p. 12) and TRO:3058U (p. 56) mention the hover is Skulker (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2399/packrat-lrpv-pkr-t5)-based.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 January 2022, 16:39:04
They are not variants - the swift wind is listed as an example of a variety of scout cars that exist. The darter is also in that entry
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 29 January 2022, 17:00:32
So... they shouldn't be listed as variants of the Hover either, right?  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 January 2022, 17:38:37
They’re alternate motive. See coolant trucks, the condor upgrade, etc for other examples. It’s an organizational tool to keep things listed together so people don’t have to hunt.

They’re mostly irrelevant footnotes at the moment since they lack RS anyways. Should they ever be actually published, we’ll revisit their status
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 29 January 2022, 17:58:32
Rog, but given the 3025 Steiner Centipede Scout Car existed long before the hover Centipede, I don't think they should be linked at all.  It's just a name re-use.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 January 2022, 18:05:51
Until the TRO entry is written for the non hover centipedes and definitely relates the history over a near-forty year old one-off reference we’ll keep it as is 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 29 January 2022, 18:07:58
That would certainly clear it up.  Thanks!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 31 January 2022, 15:58:25
Hi, the Jabberwocky JAW-66B EngineerMech is listed as 322 BV :
 http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1650/jabberwocky-jaw-66b-engineermech (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1650/jabberwocky-jaw-66b-engineermech)
The record sheet in p. 128 of Record Sheets 3075 AoW also has 322 for the BV.

I've found that Mordel.net and MechFactory  both calculate 350 for the battle value and it appears as if both sources are using the correct equipment (and the record sheet & TRO section also have the same equipment).  I will include Mordel's calculations here if you would like to double check this one:
Code: [Select]
                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Jabberwocky JAW-66B EngineerMech
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            50
Configuration:      Biped IndustrialMech

===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Heavy Industrial):                         56 x 2.5 x 1               140.000             
  Internal Structure (Industrial w/ Fusion Engine): 83 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 1  (+)     62.250  =   202.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                  50 x 0.5            (+)     25.000  =   227.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +2                  (*)       1.20  =   272.700
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              272.700

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                               
        6 (Base) + 10 (Heat Sinks) - 3 (Movement) - 2 (Weapons) = 11                               
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Spot Welder                                                               5.000             
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     57.500  =    62.500
  Speed Factor:                                     6 (Run) + 2 (Jump)  (*)      1.370  =    85.625
  Basic Fire Control System:                                            (*)      0.900  =    77.063
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                               77.063

===================================================================================================
IndustrialMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     272.700             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)     77.063  =   349.763
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final IndustrialMech Battle Value:                                                              350
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: strategoslevel3 on 04 February 2022, 00:39:12
Hi, why was my post deleted? I just calculated the correct BV for all total Warfare infantry. I thought that would be useful?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 04 February 2022, 08:59:24
Hi, why was my post deleted? I just calculated the correct BV for all total Warfare infantry. I thought that would be useful?

Hi, I do owe you an explanation, and planned on doing so.  I'm just behind on my list of things to do.
As a general note for everyone, I'm aware we have BV updates that need to be made.  I've asked the team to concentrate on the process we are developing for keeping all BVs updated, rather than dealing with single requests at a time. You can still post them, but we may not get to individual BV changes as we are working on that process for all of them.

As for why your post was deleted, I do not want posts promoting people's own works in the MUL thread. While your BV calculations were part of it, if you wanted to post just those here, you can do so. But do not link to outside projects, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 04 February 2022, 15:30:38
Now that the Blackjack C and Archer C2 have record sheets, will they be given factional availability?
I know it’s right after they have been posted, but posterity and all
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 04 February 2022, 16:27:09
After discussion, we have chosen not to include this Hunter on the MUL at this point in time. This was decided on for a few reasons:
1) The TCI kits are considered apocryphal at this point in time, and are not fully canon.
2) This version of the Hunter was never reprinted in another product, while the others you listed do have canon--if at times dated--record sheets.
3) The Hunter's specs, as listed in the TCI kit, are illegal and cannot be exactly replicated under the current ruleset.

Thanks for taking the time. I understand, but it's a shame - there need (IMHO) to be more early-period wheeled combat vehicles available to most/all factions, if only to spice up selection.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: DoctorTeeth on 04 February 2022, 16:40:17
Hell's Horses doesn't have access to the Fire Falcon in the Dark Ages in the MUL, but should according to pp. 218 of Field Manual: 3145.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 February 2022, 17:48:31
Now that the Blackjack C and Archer C2 have record sheets, will they be given factional availability?
I know it’s right after they have been posted, but posterity and all

we had considered it, yes
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Spartan601 on 05 February 2022, 05:18:59
Hi all,

The Bakeneko BKN-1K is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere on Master Unit List.

In BattleTech Historical: Wars of the Republic Era, it is recoreded as Mixed Tech. It features clan equipment and weaponry.

Cheers,

Spartan

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ELH_Firemane on 05 February 2022, 09:24:05
Hi,
The Savage Coyote Z is listed on MU:L as BV 3080 - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5831/savage-coyote-z (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5831/savage-coyote-z)
The record sheet is in War of Reaving Supp'l p. 84

Mordel.net and MechFactory are calculating 3026 BV for this one.  From what I can see, their calculations are using the correct equipment.  I will append Mordel's excellent calcs below in case you want to double-check this one:

Code: [Select]
            Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Savage Coyote Z
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            85
Configuration:      Biped OmniMech

===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                           240 x 2.5 x 1                600.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   746.250
  Gyro (Standard):                            85 x 0.5              (+)     42.500  =   788.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Nova CEWS                                                    (+)     68.000  =   856.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,028.100
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,028.100

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                         
        6 (Base) + 32 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 45 (Weapons) = -9                         
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30                                              401.000             
       Improved ATM 12                                              (+)    333.000  =   734.000
       Improved ATM 12                                              (+)    333.000  = 1,067.000
       ER Large Pulse Laser                                         (+)    272.000  = 1,339.000
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)    108.000  = 1,447.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,525.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,603.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,681.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,759.000
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]         (+)     54.000  = 1,813.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30 (Ammo 4)                              (+)     50.000  = 1,863.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30 (Ammo 4)                              (+)     50.000  = 1,913.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     85.000  = 1,998.000
  Speed Factor:                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  = 1,998.000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,998.000

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                               1,028.100             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,998.000  = 3,026.100
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            3,026

I see on another post that you folks are doing some internal review on the BV so let me know if these posts aren't helpful.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 February 2022, 09:32:37
The Bakeneko BKN-1K is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere on Master Unit List.

Thank you, fixed!

I see on another post that you folks are doing some internal review on the BV so let me know if these posts aren't helpful.

We appreciate your diligence in helping to turn the MUL into the best resource possible, so we certainly will never say that your posts aren't helpful. That said, we are currently performing a larger-scale update, so will likely keep individual updates on standby until it fully goes through.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 12 February 2022, 03:11:22
There is something wonky with the Jade Phoenix E damage Values. It shouldn’t have a long range value for one.

I don’t know the conversion fixes for it, but something is up
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 February 2022, 08:17:07
There is something wonky with the Jade Phoenix E damage Values. It shouldn’t have a long range value for one.

I don’t know the conversion fixes for it, but something is up

Thanks, fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 13 February 2022, 04:33:51
Carrion Crow D has too much structure. It looks like it didn’t get an XL engine reduction in structure.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 15 February 2022, 18:09:07
fairly sure that this is in error..

the Svantovit (original) (link) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3138/svantovit-infantry-fighting-vehicle-original) is listed as "Inner Sphere General" during the Clan Invasion. I believe this is in error because the unit is clan techbase and should not have been available to the inner sphere at the time, much less be so common as to make the IS general list. plus the following Eras do not have it as Inner Sphere General, but rather "IS Clan General". i suspect the entry is in error and was meant to be IS Clan General availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 February 2022, 18:11:29
ha. yeah, there are a few of those because Inner Sphere General and IS Clan General are right next to each other on the list so it's very easy to click the wrong one
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 15 February 2022, 18:28:22
i figured. i was just looking through trying to figure out what tanks comstar had in in the invasion era and did double take..
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 21 February 2022, 01:38:08
The Patton SB is missing the FLK special
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 21 February 2022, 08:48:30
I was going through the Coyotes unit access and noticed they were missing the Grendel (Mongrel.) It’s listed on page 172, Clan Coyote Medium Frontline RAT in 1998’s Field Manual: Warden Clans.  It doesn’t show up in 2003s Field Manual: Updates RATs (12 slot replaced by the Rabid Coyote) or 2012s The Wars of Reaving: Supplemental (expanded RAT style.).

I didn’t know if this was an error, oversight, or intentional!  Thanks!

Stumbled on a passage from TRO:3058 Upgrade (2006) page 168, “Clan Coyote seems to enjoy using the E model, which employs their Advanced Tactical Missile system.  With four tons of variable ammunition available, the Coyotes have been using this variant to deadly effect against boarder raids with the Cobras.”

This is another evidence entry for the Coyotes receiving the Grendel (I’d say for Clan Invasion and Civil War era to be honest) but that’s ultimately up to y’all!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 22 February 2022, 11:39:22
While priming a Fire Falcon, I realized that this 'Mech didn't appear with the Coyotes either.  It is in the following sources:

Field Manual: Warden Clans (1998) pg 172, Random 'Mech Assignment Table: Warden Clan Front Line, Clan Coyote Column, random roll 12:  Fire Falcon B.

Field Manual: Updates (2003-2005 (pdf)) pg 212, Random 'Mech Assignment Table: Warden Clan Front Line, Clan Coyote Column, random roll 3: Fire Falcon E [25]

Beyond this, Wars of Reaving Supplemental doesn't have the Coyotes using Fire Falcons on the expanded tables, though the accuracy of this table is suspect as there's also only a single roll for the Adder/Puma, which in the other two tables (Warden Clans, four rolls and Updates, three rolls on the front line tables and one on the second line) showed the Coyotes using the Adder/Puma a lot more (and as part of the fact check/playtest team back then, I know those tables were copy and pasted Wolf tables into publication even after numerous checks pointing out the error.)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 22 February 2022, 14:42:00
The Patton SB is missing the FLK special

thanks. It was also missing the adjustment for the supercharger, which affect MV and PV.  updated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 February 2022, 11:04:43
While priming a Fire Falcon, I realized that this 'Mech didn't appear with the Coyotes either.  It is in the following sources:

Field Manual: Warden Clans (1998) pg 172, Random 'Mech Assignment Table: Warden Clan Front Line, Clan Coyote Column, random roll 12:  Fire Falcon B.

Field Manual: Updates (2003-2005 (pdf)) pg 212, Random 'Mech Assignment Table: Warden Clan Front Line, Clan Coyote Column, random roll 3: Fire Falcon E [25]

Beyond this, Wars of Reaving Supplemental doesn't have the Coyotes using Fire Falcons on the expanded tables, though the accuracy of this table is suspect as there's also only a single roll for the Adder/Puma, which in the other two tables (Warden Clans, four rolls and Updates, three rolls on the front line tables and one on the second line) showed the Coyotes using the Adder/Puma a lot more (and as part of the fact check/playtest team back then, I know those tables were copy and pasted Wolf tables into publication even after numerous checks pointing out the error.)

Your diligence on this front is commendable. We will investigate
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 23 February 2022, 11:43:52
Marauder-9D seems to be missing the FLK special as well.  (11D, with the same SB Gauss Rifle equipped, has the FLK special).

Cheers
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 23 February 2022, 11:50:17
Marauder-9D seems to be missing the FLK special as well.  (11D, with the same SB Gauss Rifle equipped, has the FLK special).

Cheers

Updated, thank you.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 23 February 2022, 12:00:34
Your diligence on this front is commendable. We will investigate

Haha, I've been a "Coyote" since the Field Manual came out and grown up thinking "Oh, there's a few Fire Falcons, Grendels, ect I have the option to field" and with the new figures, I just started slapping down paint and found, oh wait, they aren't on the MUL! :D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 28 February 2022, 16:12:18
Canis 2 has an introduction date of 3071 while being available to the Coyotes in both the Clan Invasion (3050-3061) and Civil War (3062-3067.). Should only be available in the Jihad (3068-3080) era to the Coyotes, Sharks and Falcons?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BenDelReg on 28 February 2022, 17:21:08
Hello, all...
Is anyone else experiencing issues with the MUL just now.  I'm trying to access units via the faction or era and the links for these don't work.  When looking up a specific unit, the type and number of them shows up in the tab at the top of the results but no clickable units underneath. 
Just wondering...I was planning an Alpha Strike Game this weekend, but if this site is down, that will put a serious damper on that plan.
Thanks everyone...
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 February 2022, 17:43:21
Canis 2 has an introduction date of 3071 while being available to the Coyotes in both the Clan Invasion (3050-3061) and Civil War (3062-3067.). Should only be available in the Jihad (3068-3080) era to the Coyotes, Sharks and Falcons?

appears that the Canis 1's original availabilities were copied over and not adjusted. the Canis 2 is now banned from using the time machine to run sorties during the 3050s and 60s

Hello, all...
Is anyone else experiencing issues with the MUL just now.  I'm trying to access units via the faction or era and the links for these don't work.  When looking up a specific unit, the type and number of them shows up in the tab at the top of the results but no clickable units underneath. 
Just wondering...I was planning an Alpha Strike Game this weekend, but if this site is down, that will put a serious damper on that plan.
Thanks everyone...


hrm. everything working on my end. what sort of device, browser, etc are you using?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 01 March 2022, 09:00:46
The awesome C from  Spotlight on: Hellion Keshik is missing an entry.
Probably Scorpion Empire exclusive?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gingerk1d on 01 March 2022, 18:16:45
Is it possible to submit feature requests and/or pull requests? I'm not sure if the source code is on github anywhere.

There's a few things I'd like to implement and I don't mind taking a crack at it. Send me a DM?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 March 2022, 23:05:33
You can make requests here.
The MUL source code is not available anywhere.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 04 March 2022, 19:11:52
Should the Lancelot LNC25-09 from Rec Guide 23 have the HT 1/1 special?  I realize it may not qualify, but it does have the Plasma Rifle.

Cheers,

Mad
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 05 March 2022, 11:54:13
RE: Clan Coyote access to both the  Fire Falcon and Grendel.

Combat Operations (2003) pg 111 gives the Coyotes the Fire Falcon Prime, A, B, C, D, E, and H  and Grendel Prime, A, B, C, D, E, and H.

Also on the same page was the Crossbow Prime, A, B, C, and H, Jenner IIc 2, Lobo, and Naga Prime, A, B, C, and D.  I know the Naga shows up in their Jihad tables.

Okay, I think I’ve just about exhausted the research items for this!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 March 2022, 12:34:09
Mentioning combat operations in the presence of the MUL team is akin to saying “it” to the Knights Who Say Ni

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 06 March 2022, 13:45:35
Mentioning combat operations in the presence of the MUL team is akin to saying “it” to the Knights Who Say Ni

I’m just trying to help!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: mordel on 06 March 2022, 16:25:46
Should the Lancelot LNC25-09 from Rec Guide 23 have the HT 1/1 special?  I realize it may not qualify, but it does have the Plasma Rifle.

No. The single Plasma Rifle only grants it a 3/3/0 for heat-generating weaponry. It needs to be at least 5 to get HT at a given range bracket. So if there were two Plasma Rifles, it would get 6/6/0, and thus be granted the HT1/1/0 special.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bison AIs on 07 March 2022, 07:52:56
Request:

Export force w/ pilot skills as csv (or at least plain text).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cidayrbourne on 10 March 2022, 08:22:08
I have been having an issue with the Units page on the site. When I open the Units page, it never finishes loading.

The page itself will load, but down where the number of units should show, next to the Filter and Clear buttons, it's just a spinning circle. I can't open any of the filters on the page. If I search for a specific unit, I still see the spinning circle, and the Columns for Unit type (such as Battlemech, Infantry, etc) show, and show numbers, but clicking on them doesn't display any lists.

I use Chrome, and have updated Chrome and disabled all extensions. I have also tried the site in Chrome's Safe Mode. I have tried the site on Edge and Firefox, and have had the same issue.

Is there some error with the website? Or something I need to update, somewhere, with my browsers? I have used the MUL extensively, and I'm not doing anything different than I've done in the past, but nothing I do gets the Unit search to work correctly.

(https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275271304_10224365342433954_8572468281880730579_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=KaOHa3Gfgk8AX8dVxMc&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AT-jGDZ1SwLhbGH8lkegy8Q5q9xPACJWyV7RV2cwSFMN_Q&oe=622E6065)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 10 March 2022, 09:36:03
Never ran into that issue. And right now MUL works just fine for me.

Just to be sure, have you cleared all cookiees and cached images and stuff for the site? (I don't recall the specific site but i once had a issue loading something that got resolved by cleared all Chrome's cached images.)
Though i'm skeptical this would work if you have the same problem with other browsers, it is extremely weird.

Makes me wonder if that is some kind of OS or ISP issue.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cidayrbourne on 10 March 2022, 09:54:45
I’ve cleared cookies/cache on Chrome. And I downloaded Firefox explicitly to test the website, so everything was clean on that test.

I’m using Windows 10, so I can’t think of anything that should cause an issue there, either
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: einherjarvalk on 14 March 2022, 11:12:33
Does anyone know what the method for random number generation is on the Cluster Hit Roller Game Aid on MUL? Having used it for about a half dozen games, other players felt it disproportionately rolls head and CT crit hit locations compared to a standard 2D6 roll. After making an LRM20 hit with three locations last night that came up as Head/Head/CT crit, each of which should’ve only had a roughly 2.7% chance to happen on 2D6, I’m now inclined to agree. The probability odds may need some tweaking to prevent the LBX10 from just being a perpetual kiss of death when using this aid.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 14 March 2022, 11:26:32
Does anyone know what the method for random number generation is on the Cluster Hit Roller Game Aid on MUL? Having used it for about a half dozen games, other players felt it disproportionately rolls head and CT crit hit locations compared to a standard 2D6 roll. After making an LRM20 hit with three locations last night that came up as Head/Head/CT crit, each of which should’ve only had a roughly 2.7% chance to happen on 2D6, I’m now inclined to agree. The probability odds may need some tweaking to prevent the LBX10 from just being a perpetual kiss of death when using this aid.

Nope. You prefer something else, use it.  We're not debating random number generation. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 15 March 2022, 18:37:56
I found a discrepancy: Shadow Cats are listed in the RoT for Clan Star Adder in Operational Turning Points Revival Trials (with easy to hit rolls of 6 and 9) yet Shadow Cats are not listed as available for Star Adder in the Master unit list for any period.

It's especially peculiar because if they absorbed Clan Burrock, who also have Shadow Cats in their Revival Trials table, then Star Adder should definitely have some lasting into the Fedcom Civil War period at least.

Two Clans worth of Shadow Cats apparently disappeared by the time of Field Manual Crusader Clans and FM Updates?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 March 2022, 21:53:28
Goliath 3S (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1233/goliath-gol-3s) BV changed to 1792 with newly errata'd record sheet (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3085-unabridged/msg1802371/#msg1802371).

this has finally been fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 March 2022, 21:09:50
The goons have, at long last, been reunited with the Fortress dropships
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Angrii on 22 March 2022, 16:03:52
Shouldn't the datacards for the Resgate PA(L) Interdictor, Scout, Spotter, and Support variants all have the AM special ability through the use of Armored Gloves?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 March 2022, 17:02:02
Thanks to Savage Coyote's comprehensive and persistent research, the following changes have been made:

Grendel: Added CCY for CW and JI
Fire Falcon: Added CCY for CI, CW, and JI
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Savage Coyote on 26 March 2022, 21:50:26
Thanks to Savage Coyote's comprehensive and persistent research, the following changes have been made:

Grendel: Added CCY for CW and JI
Fire Falcon: Added CCY for CI, CW, and JI

Haha, thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 March 2022, 17:25:40
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3332/turkina-prime
Perhaps the Turkina should be added to Clan Cloud Cobra for Civil War and maybe Jihad era.
Per TRO3058U, page 192:
"Other Clans like the Cloud Cobras, Coyotes and Fire Mandrills traded with the Falcons for the design or oth-erwise took them  as spoils of war in the escalating series of clashes in the homeworlds."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 March 2022, 23:21:40
It’s already available to the cobras via HW General during the Jihad. It’s CW distribution will be evaluated as part of a much broader review we are conducting
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 March 2022, 02:38:43
Figures i missed something. And also completely forgot TRO3058U has in-universe date of 3070 or so.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 29 March 2022, 12:38:59
Inquiring about the Kestrel VTOL Infantry capacity posted on the MUL

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1769/kestrel-vtol-standard
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1765/kestrel-vtol-medevac

After looking in my copy of the TRO3058_Uu and confirming errata posted here https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/record-sheets-3058-unabridged/ , should the Infantry Capacity be 3.5 instead of 3.0?

I did not find any rounding requirements in the Alpha Strike Companion (Conversion Rules, p.125), but figured I would ask here first.
(other versions of the Kestrel with transport capacity may also need looked at.  [MedVac] came up in a conversation and was the first one I noticed the discrepancy in)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 March 2022, 13:07:37
EDIT: correction, checking..

And, Kestrel's updated. Thanks.  (SL) also udpated to IT1.5.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GoldBishop on 01 April 2022, 11:20:11
Checking PV for discrepancies
Main Gauche IFV
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5727/main-gauche-light-support-tank-ifv
Badger Transport Prime
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/207/badger-tracked-transport-prime

Both have virtually identical stats, save for the Badger having their weapons mounted in the turret and being an Omni:
Armor 3, Structure 2, S/M/L = 2/2/0; IT4

I had calculated both their PV to be 18.5 or 19 when rounded:
OFV = 8
DFV = 9 (8.88~)
MV = 1.5

Badger is currently listed at 21 PV.  Is this correct?  Did I miss an Omni/Turret cost update?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 April 2022, 11:24:08
19 PV for Badger is correct, I've updated the card. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 April 2022, 09:31:03
The MUL is currently experiencing technical difficulties. The admin has been pinged. No ETA for a fix. Apologies for the inconvenience
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MarauderD on 06 April 2022, 11:06:56
No ETA for a fox.

I'd say the fox is the likely culprit.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 April 2022, 16:14:27
and we're back.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Middcore on 06 April 2022, 18:13:20
and we're back.

(https://i.imgur.com/xfc6r5H.jpg)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 April 2022, 19:11:42
I notice that the Archer C 2 and Blackjack C don't yet have any availability data.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 April 2022, 19:14:23
Correct. They haven’t been assigned any
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 09 April 2022, 04:56:37
Speaking of Clan Coyote, can anyone tell me the original source for the Nightstar that is given to them in the Early Succession War era MUL? What book did this come from?

The only other Clan that ever gets a Nightstar in the MUL is Widowmaker, and that no doubt comes from pg. 6 of the Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption book random table.

Since the Nightstar was a fairly mainstream Royal SLDF design, shouldn't it really be available to basically every Clan (i.e. HW Clan General) from the Early Succession War era all the way through to the Clan Invasion era and beyond?

Indeed, in the Operation Klondike random table, the Nightstar is listed on pg. 147 in the B and C columns as available for general Clan use. Because of this, it should be HW Clan General for the Early Succession War era at the very least.

Logically speaking, this availability should extend beyond that as well. Why would all the Nightstars be mothballed while the other SLDF stalwarts like the inferior Crockett and King Crab continue to persist on as mainstays of Clan garrison units? The Nightstar even looks like it inspired the design of later Clan mechs.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 April 2022, 07:57:23
Speaking of Clan Coyote, can anyone tell me the original source for the Nightstar that is given to them in the Early Succession War era MUL? What book did this come from?

The only other Clan that ever gets a Nightstar in the MUL is Widowmaker, and that no doubt comes from pg. 6 of the Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption book random table.

Since the Nightstar was a fairly mainstream Royal SLDF design, shouldn't it really be available to basically every Clan (i.e. HW Clan General) from the Early Succession War era all the way through to the Clan Invasion era and beyond?

Indeed, in the Operation Klondike random table, the Nightstar is listed on pg. 147 in the B and C columns as available for general Clan use. Because of this, it should be HW Clan General for the Early Succession War era at the very least.

Logically speaking, this availability should extend beyond that as well. Why would all the Nightstars be mothballed while the other SLDF stalwarts like the inferior Crockett and King Crab continue to persist on as mainstays of Clan garrison units? The Nightstar even looks like it inspired the design of later Clan mechs.

Question A: No book. Printed information on early Clan availabilities is very scarce.

Question B: We determined that the Nightstar would not be available to the Clans in later era to reconcile with a passage in the Coventry sourcebook that shows us that a Clan warrior was unable to recognize the 'Mech. For this to happen, we had to allow for extinction in the Homeworlds, limiting the initial number in Clan hands.

Statement C: The Nightstar is on the Pentagon power RATs within OP:Klondike. We can assume that these few examples were destroyed by the Clans during the assault on the Pentagon worlds.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 09 April 2022, 18:49:24
Question A: No book. Printed information on early Clan availabilities is very scarce.

Question B: We determined that the Nightstar would not be available to the Clans in later era to reconcile with a passage in the Coventry sourcebook that shows us that a Clan warrior was unable to recognize the 'Mech. For this to happen, we had to allow for extinction in the Homeworlds, limiting the initial number in Clan hands.

Statement C: The Nightstar is on the Pentagon power RATs within OP:Klondike. We can assume that these few examples were destroyed by the Clans during the assault on the Pentagon worlds.

Thank you for the reply. However, the Nightstar is also on the Clan RAT in Op Klondike, not just the Pentagon Powers. It is there in both tables on two separate pages. And it obviously persists past the Pentagon Civil War because it shows up again for Clan Widowmaker in Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption.

I think the easier way to reconcile the Coventry sourcebook issue would have just gone the Project Phoenix route and explain the new I.S. manufactured Nightstars were slightly different visually. This is used to hand wave away many other issues in this time period like the Vulture.

P.S. Is the Nighstar availability to Clan Coyote therefore because someone who runs the MUL thought it would be neat? What is the source if no book?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 April 2022, 18:52:53
If there’s no book source, it’s internal information and not subject to dissemination
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 09 April 2022, 19:09:59
Fair enough I guess. But here's another one that doesn't make any sense logically:

Thunder Hawk 7X is listed in MUL as available for Burrock, and only Clan Burrock, in Early Succession War (despite being in the General Clan RAT for Operation Klondike).

Then suddenly it is HW General Clan in late Succession War. Despite being a Star League design that as far as we know was never manufactured again by the Clans.

It's implied all the Thunder Hawks disappeared and then suddenly reappeared everywhere.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 April 2022, 19:22:31
P.S. Is the Nighstar availability to Clan Coyote therefore because someone who runs the MUL thought it would be neat? What is the source if no book?

The MUL team assigns availability based on a variety of factors that we do not publicly disclose.

Then suddenly it is HW General Clan in late Succession War. Despite being a Star League design that as far as we know was never manufactured again by the Clans.

Good catch, thank you. Clan availabilities pre-Invasion are still being developed at this time, so certain oddities like this may crop up from time to time. Feel free to report any others you may find.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 09 April 2022, 23:42:49
Glad I could help a bit with the Thunder Hawk.

I also just found the same problem with Atlas AS7-D: present for HW Clans General in Late Succession War but not Early Succession War, despite being in Op Klondike table for the Clans. This one is slightly less problematic because I suppose the Late Succession War ones could have been brought back by Wolf's Dragoons from the Inner Sphere. Still, given how much the Clans venerated the Atlas as the mech of DeChavilier and Kerensky, I doubt they would have burned through their stockpiles in the Golden Century to the point where they all lost access to the design entirely for hundreds of years. The Atlas was relatively rare among the Clans, but not extinct. If it did go extinct, then they are literally the worst preservationists of what they claim to venerate of any people in human history. See next point.

Question B: We determined that the Nightstar would not be available to the Clans in later era to reconcile with a passage in the Coventry sourcebook that shows us that a Clan warrior was unable to recognize the 'Mech. For this to happen, we had to allow for extinction in the Homeworlds, limiting the initial number in Clan hands.

Sorry to harp on this a bit more, but how does it make sense for the Clans to forget what a Nightstar looks like? These are the descendants of Kerensky who worshipped everything about the Star League military down to its smallest detail. The Star Captain in the Coventry book who is giving the problematic account is a Jade Falcon, a Clan particularly reverent of the Star League. And the Nightstars didn't just die out with the Star League or the Pentagon Powers. Per the table in Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption, Nightstars were used by Clan Widowmaker, and the Jade Falcons were involved in their trial, specifically the First Falcon Striker Cluster fought Widowmakers on Dagda in 2834 per the scenario on pg. 24.

I mean sure, I guess the Falcons on Coventry tended to be noob warriors, and I guess the Clans could purge their targeting computers of old data for mechs they thought were long dead in order to save some hard drive space, but that doesn't seem like such a great idea in a universe where battleMechs routinely reappear after hundreds of years of not being seen.

Anyway, maybe the great and baffling mass disappearance of the Nightstar from Clan Mech stockpiles and collective memory can be explained in some future product Haha.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 10 April 2022, 00:40:33
I mean sure, I guess the Falcons on Coventry tended to be noob warriors, and I guess the Clans could purge their targeting computers of old data for mechs they thought were long dead in order to save some hard drive space, but that doesn't seem like such a great idea in a universe where battleMechs routinely reappear after hundreds of years of not being seen.

That assumes OOC knowledge of books that wouldn't be printed for another ten to twenty years.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 10 April 2022, 00:55:04
Reminder that this isn’t a space for community debate. The case for altering the nightstar’s availability has been heard. It will remain as-is
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 11 April 2022, 03:20:43
OK here's another huge hole in the pre-Revival MUL: the Marauder IIC (Standard).

I know you guys are aware that a lot of your pre-Revival Clan information on MUL is really incomplete but this omission is maybe more glaring and urgent to fix than most for the following reason:

The Marauder IIC is featured as the iconic mech of Clan Mongoose on their Kickstarter challenge coin, but according to MUL, they don't even use it. This is going to baffle new players for this and future Kickstarters to no end. They go and buy the Mongoose t-shirt fan pack and then find out the mech on their fancy coin apparently was never used by their faction.

For references proving the general Clan availability of the Marauder IIC in these periods consult Era Digest Golden Century RAT pg. 21 (year for this table = 2868), Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption Trials RAT pg. 6 (year for this table = 2834), Turning Points Tokasha RAT pg. 7 (year for this table = 2921) etc. That right there is two general Clan tables showing general Marauder IIC use + specific tables for Wolf and Hell's Horses on top of the Mongoose use.

The only discrepancy in the above tables is that Ghost Bear does not have it in their Tokasha table.

But if Clan Mongoose has Marauder IICs then it's probably safe to say most everyone does since they aren't exactly known for their assault mechs.

Khan Jerome Winston (Clan Wolf) piloted a Marauder IIC on the day Nicholas Kerensky got headshotted in the Widowmaker trial per the story at the beginning of the Turning Points Widowmaker Absorption. One of the most important events in Btech history needs to be accounted for in the MUL.

Then you have this quote from IlClan Recognition Guide Vol. 6 pg.10: "While structurally similar to the original Marauder in many ways, even the advanced capabilities of Golden Century ClanTech could not avoid expanding the BattleMech’s chassis to accommodate all its improvements... Combined with its other features, this battlefield endurance secured the Marauder IIC’s role as an ideal command ’Mech, and ensured its popularity among the glory-seeking warriors who make up most of the Clan officer corps".

Finally from the original entry on the Marauder IIC in TR 3055 pg. 110: "This Marauder is on all the garrisoned Clan worlds"

So Golden Century on through Clan Invasion - check.
Ubiquitous - check

Therefore I believe the Marauder IIC (Standard) should be updated with HW Clan General availability for Early and Late Succession Wars. Or at the bare minimum, Clan Wolf, Mongoose and Hell's Horses should receive it for these periods.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 April 2022, 05:01:50
I know you guys are aware that a lot of your pre-Revival Clan information on MUL is really incomplete but this omission is maybe more glaring and urgent to fix than most for the following reason:

We are not currently ready to update availabilities for Clan units first introduced in the Early Succession Wars era at this time. However, I can guarantee that we will make an announcement when this update happens.

Thank you for your patience.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 11 April 2022, 07:17:49
As a general guideline, any clan mech without availability before the Clan Invasion will be addressed in a future bulk update.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 11 April 2022, 09:57:14
I feel like these two might be opening a can of worms (because there may be multiple Clan 'Mechs with IS melee weapons out there), but Karhu Prime and Karhu C both have [IS Tech] retractable blades (TR3085).

Should they both be...
--Experimental rules
--Mixed tech?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1752/karhu-prime
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1750/karhu-c

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 11 April 2022, 10:18:42
Per the TechManual, the retractable blade is available to both tech bases. We should be good as-is.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 11 April 2022, 13:10:50
Per the TechManual, the retractable blade is available to both tech bases. We should be good as-is.
Oops! I was going off my copy of the BMM, but it looks like there is a fix in the BMM errata document that updates it to both tech bases.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 12 April 2022, 14:32:43
Iron Cheetah - according to its entry in the rec guide series the design was being sold to the Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, Free Worlds League, Raven Alliance and Clan Wolf in Exile once the Republic enacted the fortress.

But the Dark Age era only has it available to Clan Sea Fox and the Republic and the IlCan Era does not show it as being available to Clan Wolf?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 April 2022, 15:08:56
the wolf bit requires some investigation

the others did not receive the bulk of their orders until 3151
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 15 April 2022, 10:51:35
the wolf bit requires some investigation

the others did not receive the bulk of their orders until 3151

Thinking about this should the IlClan era also show the Iron Cheetah as being available to the Smoke Jaguars as the Fedelis were one of the main users in the Republic?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 April 2022, 11:17:52
smoke jaguars haven't been re-added as a faction yet. the only reason the iron cheetah has availability at all for the ilclan era was to account for the rec guide so we didn't forget about it when we are actually able and ready to populate the new era.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 16 April 2022, 19:08:34
(low importance/priority)

All have updated artwork in their respective publications:
Leopard (3056) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4494/leopard-3056)
Leopard "Pocket Warship" (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4492/leopard-pocket-warship)
Leopard PA (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1867/leopard-pa-class-dropship)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 17 April 2022, 02:57:01
Urbanmech IIC is cited as an "Iconic Military Unit" for Clan Wolf-in-Exile in TechManual on the colour map of the Inner Sphere but missing as such from MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 17 April 2022, 19:40:14
That’s a weird one. It’s largely a homeworld design and after 3080 the only IS clan to have any quantity worth noting is the horses. Further the wolves never used it at all. Going to have to discuss. Maybe someone remembers how that entry came about
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: NeonWolf on 18 April 2022, 10:14:04
First of all, a hearty THANK YOU! To the MUL team for a really excellent job. I’ve used it like crazy and its been great.

One thing that I think could be a massive improvement to the AS builder, is defaulting all battle armor units to number the of troopers that would be in the unit based on their faction of origins. Elementals would default to 5 trooper units instead of the current 4 for example.

I feel like the vast majority of people building lists will probably be fielding their units this way and I know it would definitely help me and my local players out a lot. Especially the newer players who always seem really confused by this aspect of the builder.

Anyway, that’s my feedback. Thanks for reading and keep up the great work. Thanks again!

Is there a reason this can't happen? Since no Alpha Strike cards were printed and included with the Elemental ForcePack this would go a long way towards players actually being able to use those models in games of Alpha Strike
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 April 2022, 10:16:55
the card for the five trooper squad is on the bottom of the page. the limitation is for adding squads to the force builder.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 18 April 2022, 14:18:17
On that note, is there a way to add multiple of the same unit to a force? I feel like there ought to be and I'm just missing it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 18 April 2022, 15:46:57
Pretty much boils down to clicking the Add button an extra time or two, until you've added all the ones you want.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 18 April 2022, 16:22:44
displaying multiples in a force is a known issue for the Total Warfare and Alpha Strike builders. however.

(https://i.ibb.co/SvTJf2n/force-example.png)

if you click on force and view the dropdown, you see that all the units you added are there. click on the X units X BV X tons bit on the bottom and you get

(https://i.ibb.co/s9PRVCR/force-example2.png)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 18 April 2022, 19:30:27
That’s a weird one. It’s largely a homeworld design and after 3080 the only IS clan to have any quantity worth noting is the horses. Further the wolves never used it at all. Going to have to discuss. Maybe someone remembers how that entry came about

Just guessing but probably had something to do with wanting to make them feel unique vs. the Crusader Wolves with a design that also established trading links between the Exiled Wolves and the Warden Coyotes, which is where they could have gotten some from perhaps. Since the Wolves in Exile are mainly defensive based on Arc Royal, the slow speed of the Urbanmech wouldn't be such a liability. Finally, being extremely similar looking to conventional Urbies, it's a design that would be very familiar to most Steiner citizens in the Arc Royal Defence Cordon which might help set their concerns at ease that they were now suddenly being occupied by Clanners. It would not come across as alien looking as other Clan garrison mechs.

On the flip side, it's a bit mysterious how the Wolf in Exile Pack Hunter suddenly ends up in use by so many homeworld Clans as well. Somebody has discoved a secret Worm Hole between Arc Royal and Strana Mechty it seems.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: NeonWolf on 19 April 2022, 14:45:41
the card for the five trooper squad is on the bottom of the page. the limitation is for adding squads to the force builder.

The force builder is the issue. If you want to print out a force for play or say, an AS350 tournament, it is a whole lot of effort to get a 5-suit unit of Elementals on that printout.  If the default was the 5-suit unit this would eliminate the issue.

I'm sure Comstar/WoB devotees would love if their battle armor defaulted to the 6-suit unit card as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 19 April 2022, 15:16:28
Unfortunately, it seems like the structure of the site means you have to pick 4, 5, or 6, and whichever number you choose must be applied to ALL suits - no exceptions possible.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 April 2022, 15:30:38
correct. it's the limitations of the platform. all BA squads are defaulted to 4 man squads. apologies but it's what we're stuck with for the time being
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Middcore on 19 April 2022, 20:52:15
Anybody else find that they cannot click on things on the MUL site on desktop lately?

If I go to the Factions page, none of the factions are clickable to go to their listing.

If I click on one of the random units on the front page and click on one of the eras to see its availability, nothing happens.

If I search for a unit, and click on one of the categories in the results (for example BattleMechs), nothing happens.

This is on Chrome 100.0.4896.127.

Mobile works fine.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 19 April 2022, 22:19:02
Marauder II MAD-10D looks to be missing the REL special ability.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7519/marauder-ii-mad-10d

IlClan Rec Guide 05 has it equipped with a Large Re-engineered Laser, or is this an example of not meeting a damage threshold thus not receiving the special ability?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 April 2022, 22:28:18
Marauder II MAD-10D looks to be missing the REL special ability.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7519/marauder-ii-mad-10d

IlClan Rec Guide 05 has it equipped with a Large Re-engineered Laser.

It is correct as is.  A single large re-engineered laser does not do enough damage to qualify for REL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 19 April 2022, 22:29:15
Thanks for the reply.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 19 April 2022, 22:32:03
Anybody else find that they cannot click on things on the MUL site on desktop lately?

If I go to the Factions page, none of the factions are clickable to go to their listing.

If I click on one of the random units on the front page and click on one of the eras to see its availability, nothing happens.

If I search for a unit, and click on one of the categories in the results (for example BattleMechs), nothing happens.

This is on Chrome 100.0.4896.127.

Mobile works fine.

I'm not having any issues when I try those with Chrome. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 20 April 2022, 07:56:32
Anybody else find that they cannot click on things on the MUL site on desktop lately?
This is on Chrome 100.0.4896.127.
Works fine for me, same version. (Or, well, can't open image-links with middle button to new tabs but then again i don't think that's ever been doable on MUL.)

Try clearing cookies, and/or Chrome's cache. Usually fixes problems like that.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Middcore on 20 April 2022, 10:25:44
Try clearing cookies, and/or Chrome's cache. Usually fixes problems like that.

This works for literally one visit and then the problem recurs.

I also just tested on Edge (which I never use) and it's the same thing.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 24 April 2022, 21:37:18
I've moved on to a deep dive into the Dark Age, and noticed that pretty much none of the units in the TR3150 "New Tech, New Upgrades" section have a MUL entry.

Maybe they don't have record sheets (I also noticed they weren't on MegaMek or SSW), but that hasn't precluded other MUL entries that don't have record sheets. Plus, I noticed that at least one is referenced in the new Rec Guides (Hatchetman-7D in RG12).

Is this errata, or are they on some long-dormant to-do list?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 April 2022, 21:39:50
They’ll be added if RS3150 ever comes to fruition
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 29 April 2022, 13:22:27
The Raven RVN-3L seems to be a lot less available than it should be per TRO: 3050U.

The RVN-3L is unavailable to the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth during the Clan invasion, despite the following:
Quote from: Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade
Other examples made their way into Steiner and Davion hands due to clashes between the powers over the years, though Operation Sovereign Justice saw a number of damaged Ravens fall into the hands of Capellan March forces. These shattered Ravens have been rebuilt and equipped by Hasek’s troops and turned against their original designers.

In addition, the RVN-3L is unavailable to the Draconis Combine for all possible eras, despite:
Quote from: Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade
First and foremost was the Confederation’s need for foreign currency that saw a number of units exported to both the Free Worlds and the Combine.
However, the RVN-3M does appear to be available to the Draconis Combine. For the sake of clarity, were the Combine exports exclusively of the RVN-3M model, or is this an oversight?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: PaladinMind on 30 April 2022, 01:06:20
Are there plans for adding a way to search or sort units by OV (Overheat Value)?

Currently it seems only OVL (Overheat Long) is searchable since it shows up in the specials section.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2022, 07:25:00
The Raven RVN-3L seems to be a lot less available than it should be per TRO: 3050U.

The RVN-3L is unavailable to the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth during the Clan invasion, despite the following:
In addition, the RVN-3L is unavailable to the Draconis Combine for all possible eras, despite:However, the RVN-3M does appear to be available to the Draconis Combine. For the sake of clarity, were the Combine exports exclusively of the RVN-3M model, or is this an oversight?

The Shattered Ravens are specific references to the RVN-SR and RVN-SS. Operation Sovereign Justice was during the Jihad.

The 3M covers the exports to the Combine, yes. That's not to say some 3Ls didn't make their way there, but not enough to reach the numbers to be listed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greatclub on 30 April 2022, 08:48:57
Phoenix longbow is using the 3085 artwork. Which is a shame, because the PP artwork is great.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2022, 09:15:47
the 12C should sport the TRO:PP art. fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: BlackLanner05 on 30 April 2022, 14:46:22
One more example of conflicting/inconsistent lore regarding Clan use of the Nightstar (I know this has been settled for now and so this post doesn't need a reply - but it is worth noting here in case greater Clan access to this design becomes open to debate again in the future): Technical Readout 3058 Upgrade pg. 196, in introducing the Star League section of the book, writes "Much of the material presented here was previously to be found in the Conventional Vehicles and Inner Sphere BattleMechs sections. They have been gathered together here for they (unlike the designs covered in other sections) can be found in both Inner Sphere and Clan formations". Then the Nighstar is one of the designs that is profiled in this section.

So according to that, the Nighstar can be found in Clan formations in the year 3070 when this Wolfnet account is written. And note this is Wolfnet - not Comstar who is more prone to making TRO mistakes. Wolfnet would have an excellent understanding of what the Clans do and do not field.

I still say the easiest way to resolve the Coventry targeting computer inconsistency is to chalk it up to a different visual design quirks of the new Inner Sphere model.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2022, 14:55:02
Are there plans for adding a way to search or sort units by OV (Overheat Value)?

Currently it seems only OVL (Overheat Long) is searchable since it shows up in the specials section.

it can be explored.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 April 2022, 15:10:36
(low importance/priority)

All have updated artwork in their respective publications:
Leopard (3056) (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4494/leopard-3056)
Leopard "Pocket Warship" (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4492/leopard-pocket-warship)
Leopard PA (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1867/leopard-pa-class-dropship)

these have been updated as well as the Leopard CV (3054)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 07 May 2022, 23:27:09
The Spartan C and Shogun C both appear in the Wolf's Dragoons in Redemption Rites.  Should they be added to Wolf's Dragoon's availability in the Dark Age?  Or is that not enough usage?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 08 May 2022, 07:44:11
The Spartan C and Shogun C both appear in the Wolf's Dragoons in Redemption Rites.  Should they be added to Wolf's Dragoon's availability in the Dark Age?  Or is that not enough usage?

Dire Wolf as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 May 2022, 11:07:48
While we will take these into consideration, it's important to note that Redemption Rites takes place after Terra---and after the Dragoons had their regiments savaged and had the chance to claim a remarkable amount of salvage. As such, there's no guarantee that any updates will affect the Dragoon Dark Age (or earlier) lists.

With that said, there's no need to post any further units from Redemption Rites.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 May 2022, 11:27:55
In any ilClan-era entries are made on a very intentional case-by-case basis. Some factions like the reincarnated Jaguars haven't even been added back in yet as we wait to see what shape they will take.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2022, 09:58:50
I know RATs aren't the be-all end-all of anything, but given the Grommet's (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7180/grommet-d90-militiamech) presence in the general IndustrialMech table in TRO Irregulars, is there any chance of seeing increased availability for that mech?

Second question: I'm noticing that some of the units from TRO Irregulars have PVs and Alpha Strike cards, but many do not. Am I correct in guessing that this means the MULMasters are in the process of updating those units and I just checked in the middle of things?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 May 2022, 10:09:06
I know RATs aren't the be-all end-all of anything, but given the Grommet's (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7180/grommet-d90-militiamech) presence in the general IndustrialMech table in TRO Irregulars, is there any chance of seeing increased availability for that mech?

Second question: I'm noticing that some of the units from TRO Irregulars have PVs and Alpha Strike cards, but many do not. Am I correct in guessing that this means the MULMasters are in the process of updating those units and I just checked in the middle of things?

To answer question 1: We're currently in the middle of a large-scale RAT review, and are mid-process. This isn't to guarantee that the Grommet will have its availabilities changed---just that it is, along with all other potential RAT omissions, on our radar.

To answer question 2: Some were recently updated, and I'm planning on updating a few more today. It might take some time for the more esoteric units, though.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 12 May 2022, 10:26:27
That's fine, just knowing that they'll get done eventually is good enough for me. I'm fully aware that despite my being the Most Interesting Player in the Fandom, I am still but one player, and it makes business sense to prioritize things that are focused on by the unwashed masses. ;)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kharn01 on 13 May 2022, 04:22:55
I think you know the Elemental problem in both Alpha Strike and Total Warfare Builder.

You can search for Elemental Battle Armor and add the unit to the force but it's ever the 4 trooper squad (5 or 6 trooper squads doesn't exsist in the force builders).

The Foot Platoons have various types (Foot Platoon (FedCom) (Flamer), Foot Platoon (FW3035+) (Flamer))

Will it be possible to generat one card per Battle Armor size (Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] would change to  -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (4) -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (5) -> Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (6))
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 May 2022, 07:09:48
This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 13 May 2022, 08:08:25
This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.
Seems like it would require a fairly fundamental change in how infantry units are handled by the MUL, which IMO is needed anyways. Still, that's its own bag of snakes.

On another note, HTP: Tortuga erroneously links to CGL Store and DTRPG pages for TTS: Tortuga Prime.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kharn01 on 17 May 2022, 04:48:24
This has indeed been considered. But it would require having to manually create 800ish new entries (which includes faction data). It would also clutter the infantry search results fairly severely, especially with units like the Elemental.

That’s not to say we won’t *ever* do it, but we have chosen not to for now for the reasons above.

Can I help by the task? Because in the actual state are the Elementals useless for the Force Builder(s).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: NeonKnight on 18 May 2022, 13:56:52
Dire Wolf Prime is listed on the MUL as being 56 PV

ALPHA STRIKE card in the Command Star Force Pack lists the PV as 55 points.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 May 2022, 10:43:27
The MUL is correct. The card is in error
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 23 May 2022, 18:24:40
Nighthawk PA(L) Mk. XXI (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4718/nighthawk-pal-mk-xxi)

Combat Equipment (p. 44, last sentence before the rules section), and TRO: 3075 (p. 12, fourth paragraph) state that ComStar shared production of the XXI with the (second) SLDF. This would cover from 3065-3067. XXII and XXX variants aren't mentioned specifically.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 04 June 2022, 20:55:05
The HEP-2H Heliopolis

Production Date: 2488 according to TRO 3075, pg 182/183

It's listed with Double Heat Sinks, which are not in prototype format until 2559/ normal production 2567 (79 yrs after the HEP-2H) according to Starterbook: Sword and Dragon, p. 57, "Double Heat Sinks"/ Interstellar Operations, pg 71 "Double Heat sinks".

Introduced: 2559 (Terran Hegemony)
Standard Production: 2567 (Terran Hegemony)
Constructed with advanced materials and further supplied
with specially engineered cooling fluids, the double heat sink
revolutionized the design of both BattleMechs and aerospace
fighters in the 26th century and beyond.

So.... does the Intro Date for the Heliopolis need to be changed, or it's technology?

(Been a while since I posted, so might be in the wrong section, again. Maybe errata?)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 04 June 2022, 22:02:56
definitely something worth looking into. thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 June 2022, 08:56:15
turns out we knocked this one out a while ago (for the life of me i couldn't find the email chain). the intro date has already been changed on the MUL. The HEP-2X was created to account for the text in TRO 3075

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bishop Steiner on 05 June 2022, 10:26:15
Interesting. Apparently someone going by the handle Greekfire on discord updated the MUL date last night (or so I was told) and none if the auxiliary sites seem aware of the addition of the 2X. I will look to update them when I get home.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 June 2022, 11:22:10
the changes themselves were applied last night, yes. the decision to make them occurred a while back and making the changes escaped the to-do queue.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 05 June 2022, 12:48:40
I noticed the search results for the Mobile Long Tom Artillery LT-MOB-25 and associated Ammo and Support carriages are each listed as 95 tons. The records sheets from the Download page have tonnage listed as 75, 10 and 10 (and AS card sizes are 2, 1 and 1).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=long+tom&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 05 June 2022, 20:45:23
turns out we knocked this one out a while ago (for the life of me i couldn't find the email chain). the intro date has already been changed on the MUL. The HEP-2X was created to account for the text in TRO 3075

You might want to blank out the BV and C-Bill cost values for the new HEP-2X (and maybe remove the AS card, too). The single heat sinks will change these values slightly, and it'd be consistent with how the other variants that lack a record sheet are presented on the MUL.
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 05 June 2022, 21:50:41
You might want to blank out the BV and C-Bill cost values for the new HEP-2X (and maybe remove the AS card, too). The single heat sinks will change these values slightly, and it'd be consistent with how the other variants that lack a record sheet are presented on the MUL.
 

Ah, that's my bad. The AS card is accurate, though---I took into account the changes there when tweaking its values.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MyndkryM on 06 June 2022, 15:59:26
Cheers to the MUL team for the latest Battle Armor update.  :thumbsup:

Y'alls work is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 06 June 2022, 16:11:37
nckestrel tapped into a font of dark sorcery (ok, it was SQL but shooting lightning through silicone is technically magic so)

for the uninitiated, we did the thing and created individual BA entries for each standard squad size of 4, 5, and 6. Faction availablity goes by squad size - clans will always have access to the 5 man squads, but almost never four or six. Likewise, Comstar and the Word of Blake only use the six man entry.

What this means is that a lot of entries will have no availability at all - for example, a Tengu will be blank for the 4 and 5 man squads because they were a Blakist exclusive. We initially debated removing the unused records, but decided to keep things player-friendly and have all the options available. Perhaps your merc unit wants to run a squad of four Undines or you need to save 3pv to squeak into your AS points cap by selecting a smaller squad size. All things are possible.

I'm in the process of manually double-checking the entries to make sure that everything moved over correctly but feel free to report any oddities in this space as usual.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 06 June 2022, 18:35:01
You both are true heroes!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 06 June 2022, 18:35:48
Great job on the BA updates, guys! I can already hear the pitter-patter of little armored feet bouncing around tabletop terrain everywhere...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 06 June 2022, 22:05:08
Ok, the Elemental 5-packs inspired me to write down all the errata I think I've found in my Dark Age research deep dive. I tried to organize by the likelihood it's legit errata...

Definitely Errata
Firebee 1E (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1078/firebee-frb-1e-wam-b): Delete Canopus, Fronc availability in E-Republic (duplicative with Periphery-Gen)
Firestarter M3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6610/firestarter-fs9-m3): Fronc availability in DA era redundant with Periphery-Gen availability
Firestarter M4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6611/firestarter-fs9-m4): Should not have E-Republic availability (Intro date = 3109)
Assassin 23 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/128/assassin-asn-23): Either A) Fronc availability is duplicative in E/L-Republic eras with Periphery-Gen, or B) Periphery-Gen is in error (since it’s eventually extinct).
Clint 2-3U (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/646/clint-clnt-2-3u): Either A) Fronc availability is duplicative in E-Republic era with Periphery-Gen, or B) Periphery-Gen is in error and should be replaced with Canopus and Taurians.
Goshawk 6 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7709/goshawk-vapor-eagle-6): has an Intro date (2840) earlier than the original Goshawk (2863)
Shadow Hawk 4H (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7785/shadow-hawk-shd-4h): needs availability in E-Republic era (Intro date = 3097).
Shadow Hawk 7H (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7789/shadow-hawk-shd-7h): should not have any availability in E-Republic era (Intro date = 3101). Not sure if more limited availabilities should be moved to L-Republic era or not
Rifleman 3Cr (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2696/rifleman-rfl-3cr): mention and record sheet is only in TRO3085(-PP). No mention of it or RS in RG08

Multiple Units (FWL Dark Age issue):
There are a few units with Intro dates < 3139 and Dark Age availability to FWL, but no Dark Age availability individual FWL-states (but should have these since they were around before reunification). Some examples are the Hermit Crab (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7721/hermit-crab-hmc-13) (all variants), Scourge WF1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6625/scourge-scg-wf1), and Locust 3M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1905/locust-lct-3m).
If the MUL team has better filtering skills than I do, the way to find these would be the units with:   0 <= Introduction <= 3138 AND Dark Age availability = FWL AND (DA availability NOT = {Tamarind OR Oriente OR, etc.})
There also seems to be some with the reverse (individual FWL state availability but no FWL availability in DA). The Goliath 3M2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8405/goliath-gol-3m2) is an example. This might not be errata, though, since these may reflect extinction before 3139.

Pretty Sure It’s Errata
Locust IIC 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1916/locust-iic-3)
: Should have Capellan and FWL availability during Civil War and Jihad eras (RG16: “After its proliferation following Operation Bulldog, this was one of the most common Clan ’Mechs within the Free Worlds League and Capellan Confederation well into the Jihad.”)
Griffin 3N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7436/griffin-grf-3n): Pretty sure E-Republic availability should be Regulus, not Marik-Stewart (produced on Tiber in Reg-Fiefs, according to RG01)
Griffin 5L (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1304/griffin-grf-5l): Should have Canopus availability (in all eras) according to TRO3085 (“These GRF-5L variants were shared with the Magistracy of Canopus, but not with the Taurian Concordat.”)
Merlin 1A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2177/merlin-mln-1a) and 1B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2178/merlin-mln-1b): I think these should have Raven Alliance availability for E/L-Republic and DA eras. They do not have access to Periphery-Gen list (as the Outworlds All. did)
Warhammer 5L (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3484/warhammer-whm-5l): Should have Canopus availability (in all eras) according to TRO3085 (“A joint venture between the Magistracy and the Capellan Confederation, the WHM-5L trades in its PPCs for plasma rifles.”)

May or May Not Be Errata
Sphinx 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6864/sphinx-3)
and 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6863/sphinx-4): Should Sea Foxes have availability in DA era? TR3145 (NTNU): “…Clan Sea Fox still sells both.”
Rifleman IIC 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2711/rifleman-iic-2): Is Merc, Kell Hounds, Solaris availability during Jihad era errata? It’s the only IS availability in any era and I couldn’t find a source to suggest it.
Hector 1B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4283/hector-hor-1b): Is this really reintro in 3075? I could not for the life of me find a reference to its revival ED: Age of War, any of the Jihad sourcebooks (including Obj: FWL), or any Dark Age sourcebooks
Longbow 7V (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1937/longbow-lgb-7v): Are HW Clan/Stone Lion/Society availabilities during Jihad errata? It’s not an SLDF or Vicore variant (so no secret Wobbie shipments), so I didn’t see anything to suggest they’d have it.
Night Wolf (std) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2273/night-wolf-standard): should Hell’s Horses have DA era availability added? (produced at Weingarten, TR3085).

Potential missing availabilities of capturing factions
Pandora (Red Devil): Should Lyrans have Rifleman C 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2694/rifleman-c-2) available in DA? Tamar Rising (p. 29) suggests Riflemans were still being churned out in 3151, and possibly as far back as Lyran occupation (RG08 suggests the C 3 is a Sea Fox export variant).
Tikonov (Earthwerks): Should Davion have Dark Age availability of Koschei 5I (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1824/koschei-ksc-5i) and 5X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1826/koschei-ksc-5x), Quickdraw 8P (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4887/quickdraw-qkd-8p) and/or Cataphract 5L (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7527/cataphract-ctf-5l)? They have it for Thunderbolt 12R and held the world for years.
Marduk (Victory): Should Davion have Dark Age availability of Firestarter-O (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1099/firestarter-fs9-o) omni and Wolverine 9K (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3581/wolverine-wvr-9k)? They have it for all other ‘Mechs produced on Marduk during Dark Age (Griffin 5K, Orochi 2I, Black Hawk and Avatar omnis).
Terra Firma (Bander BM): Should Capellans have Bandersnatch (1Ar (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/218/bandersnatch-bndr-01ar) and/or 1B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/219/bandersnatch-bndr-01b)) availability in DA era? They have availabilities for Scorpion 1TB and 1BR produced there (and Crusader 9BR with rest of IS)




Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 00:03:46
Thank you! I've made adjustments aplenty.

A few notes:
-The early intro date for the Vapor Eagle 6 is intentional. Blame the text as written.
-The Griffin 3N's debut in the MSC is intentional. Production was relocated to Regulan space following Wolf conquest of Keystone.
-DA missing factions: everything here is as intended.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 08:33:53
We're happy to announce that the ilClan era is now in its beta phase.

http://masterunitlist.info/Era/Details/257/ilclan


Though much work has already gone into the era, it is currently unfinished and is still a work in progress. Units will be added and removed at a high frequency, and faction availabilities for said units will be just as volatile.

With that said, feedback pointing out potential mistakes is more than welcome. Examples of welcome comments include those that:
Please, however, do not comment on:

We do not currently have an ETA as to when the ilClan era will reach a more finalized state, but we will make another announcement once we feel secure that the era has taken a more solid form.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 June 2022, 08:39:32
(yes, several factions are still hidden)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 08:43:43
(yes, several factions are still hidden)

Not anymore :)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 June 2022, 08:52:50
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Dramatic_Chipmunk.png)

but also we add more factions if the plot creates them. as stated, this era is wildly volatile since we're only officially 18 months into it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 07 June 2022, 09:11:34
Oooh, exciting!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 07 June 2022, 11:27:39
After the release of the Empire Alone book, can some factions add other Mechs/ASF/Tanks and other things?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 07 June 2022, 11:47:50
A few notes:
-The early intro date for the Vapor Eagle 6 is intentional. Blame the text as written.
-The Griffin 3N's debut in the MSC is intentional. Production was relocated to Regulan space following Wolf conquest of Keystone.
-DA missing factions: everything here is as intended.
Thanks! I have to say, though, Bander BM not producing the Bandersnatch is like Hershey's not producing the chocolate bar. #@$%! Capellans...  >:(


Also, it looks like I had notes on the Sea Fox/Sphinx issue that make it more complicated than I reported. In addition to this...
Sphinx 3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6864/sphinx-3) and 4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6863/sphinx-4): Should Sea Foxes have availability in DA era? TR3145 (NTNU): “…Clan Sea Fox still sells both.”
There is also this in TR3145: DC (p. 36, Notable Units): "Star Captain Bridget Hawker was the first Sea Fox warrior to conduct a Trial of Possession for the remains of the LAW-Avon facility."
So, one of these must be true:
A) TR3145: NTNU is in errata and Sea Foxes aren't selling anything by 3145
B) TR3145: DC is in errata and LAW-Avon is chugging alone fine
C) Neither is in errata, LAW-Avon is no more but there were enough Sphinxes in storage to warrant inclusion for Sea Foxes on the MUL.

Also also, iLCLAN ERA IS UP!  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D
(I'll start taking a look soon...  :thumbsup:)

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 12:30:24
LAW-Avon was only partially demolished, so we're good.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 07 June 2022, 19:18:11
For ilClan errata spotting, I had some questions about timing of factions and some timing of production. The two Locust examples below might help clarify a bunch for errata reporting for me (and hopefully others).

The Locust 5M2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6947/locust-lct-5m2) and 5M3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6948/locust-lct-5m3) do not have any Wolf Clan availability in DA but have Wolf Empire availability in ilClan. Prior to the updates, I had assumed that the DA availability was because the Wolves switched their production lines to the Locust IIC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1914/locust-iic-standard) and IIC 10 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8203/locust-iic-10) (based on RG16 fluff).

So my questions are:
1. For all units available to the various Wolf incarnations, what is the relationship between the 3 versions around in DA and ilClan? Is it Clan Wolf (3130-41), Wolf Empire (3142-51), Wolf SLDF (3151-)? Or do some of these coexist over some period (like Wolf Empire & SLDF Wolves in 3151+)?

2. Related to that, should all units with Clan Wolf availability (that keep it through 3142) also have Wolf Empire availability in the DA era? (And should those with intro dates >= 3142 only have Wolf Empire availability)?

3. For the Locust examples above, is the errata that Wolf Empire/Clan Wolf should have access to the M2 and M3 in DA, or that they should not have it in ilClan? (or some option C?)

4. I think I know the answer to this but Jade Falcon faction is unified JF's through 3151, then it is Jiyi Chistu/OZ Falcons, while SLDF JF = absorbed Falcons on Terra, aff?

5. I thought the Clan Protectorate was considered part of the FWL from 3139? If not, should it have DA era availability, too? Hopefully this isn't some spoiler for a future sourcebook... :-[

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 19:27:58
1. The Wolf Empire is, so far, being treated as a distinct entity during the ilClan era. It is classified as Clan Wolf during the Dark Age.
2. If I'm understanding correctly, no, not necessarily.
3. The Locust example was an oversight, and has been fixed.
4. That is correct, yes.
5. We've decided to treat them as a distinct entity in the ilClan era for the time being. It's entirely possible that they might get removed as a faction, that this faction might be expanded to include the Dark Age, or that things might remain as they are. I wouldn't look into it as a sign of things to come, in any case. They're simply complicated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 07 June 2022, 19:51:46
Geez you are fast to reply, thanks!  8)

1. The Wolf Empire is, so far, being treated as a distinct entity during the ilClan era. It is classified as Clan Wolf during the Dark Age.
So, then so I have it right for reporting...
Units that were available to Clan Wolf/Empire in 3150 should be available to *both* Wolf Empire and SLDF Wolves in ilClan Era, and...
Units that were produced on Terra (and other nearby worlds?) and overtaken/retooled/salvaged by the conquerors should be available to SLDF Wolves as well, right?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 07 June 2022, 20:18:30
Definitely maybe
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 07 June 2022, 20:56:18
Units that were available to Clan Wolf/Empire in 3150 should be available to *both* Wolf Empire and SLDF Wolves in ilClan Era, and...

No, not necessarily. Could be one, could be another, could be neither.

Quote
Units that were produced on Terra (and other nearby worlds?) and overtaken/retooled/salvaged by the conquerors should be available to SLDF Wolves as well, right?

Also not necessarily. Terran (or other nearby) production might go to any of the SLDF factions, or none of them altogether.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nerroth on 07 June 2022, 23:36:57
So far as the IlClan Era Scorpion Empire (http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=91&EraId=257) is concerned:

Has there been any consideration as to which (if any) IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox (http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=82&EraId=257) BattleMech designs - such as the Hammerhead (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7511/hammerhead-standard), to give one example - would have been among the "treasure trove" of blueprints and/or 'Mech samples acquired by the Scorpions in the "Sea Fox Two-Step" from Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik (http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/505/spotlight-on-hellion-keshik)?

The Sea Fox force involved was Delta Aimag, Tiburon Khanate, though it's not formally stated exactly which data files and/or sample units were specifically on hand for them to hand over as isorla in this instance.

-----

And speaking of Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik:

The Awesome C (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8470/awesome-c) is listed in that volume as part of Able Nova (Option 1) as of 3151. Should it thus be added to the IlClan Era Scorpion Empire listings?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 07 June 2022, 23:58:20
Definitely maybe
In that case, if anything on/near Terra involving the SLDF/Wolves (or anything not near Terra involving Wolf-like factions) looks weird, I'll definitely report it...
...and maybe it'll be errata.  :o  :-[


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kharn01 on 08 June 2022, 05:22:50
Example: Flamer Elemental BA Squad of 5

Text on the Card:

"[Flamer] (Sqd 5)
Elemental Battle Armor
Squad 4"

I think the "Squad 4" line can be deleted.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 June 2022, 06:39:09
Has there been any consideration as to which (if any) IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox (http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=82&EraId=257) BattleMech designs - such as the Hammerhead (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7511/hammerhead-standard), to give one example - would have been among the "treasure trove" of blueprints and/or 'Mech samples acquired by the Scorpions in the "Sea Fox Two-Step" from Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik (http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/505/spotlight-on-hellion-keshik)?

It's on my radar, yeah. Certain Fox designs have already been given to the Empire, certain were already present. It's possible that the exact designs may fluctuate a bit over the course of the next few weeks.


Quote
The Awesome C (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8470/awesome-c) is listed in that volume as part of Able Nova (Option 1) as of 3151. Should it thus be added to the IlClan Era Scorpion Empire listings?

Thanks, fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 June 2022, 14:58:30
Noticed the Scylla is missing availabilities post-Jihad. The Scylla 2 and Scylla 3 do have post-Jihad availabilities listed.
Is this an error or a case of "not enough data"?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5000/scylla-standard
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 08 June 2022, 15:01:54
Avails that don't extend beyond the Jihad are code for "these are 'Mechs that are no longer used in the IS, but were produced/used in the Homeworlds when we last saw them."

There's no need to report any of them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2022, 15:03:22
i wanted to make a faction called FATE UNKNOWN for such things but the code doesn't let animated blood run down the letters for just that instance so it's not worth it.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 June 2022, 15:07:35
Avails that don't extend beyond the Jihad are code for "these are 'Mechs that are no longer used in the IS, but were produced/used in the Homeworlds when we last saw them."

There's no need to report any of them.
Ohh, of course. Didn't realize this as this was the first one i ran into in a long while. Not to mention Scylla 2 and 3 appearing in the Inner Sphere threw me off.

i wanted to make a faction called FATE UNKNOWN for such things but the code doesn't let animated blood run down the letters for just that instance so it's not worth it.
Does MUL support animated gifs as icons?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2022, 15:09:22
assuming they did, nckestrel would lock me in a closet immediately after implementing. the blank availability after 3080 will suffice for now
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 08 June 2022, 21:41:05
Another ilClan question...

Up through the DA era, it looked like the MUL did not give mixed tech/Clan tech Omni configurations to periphery factions, even if they had access to other configurations of the same unit. Should this persist through the ilClan era, or do they finally permeate to the periphery by 3151?

Example is Owens OW-1R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2391/owens-ow-1r) vs. base model (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2384/owens-ow-1) (compare DA to ilClan availabilities). If Clan/Mixed tech shouldn't permeate just yet, then the periphery factions for the 1R (and perhaps other IS -nR and -nX omni configurations...haven't checked yet) are errata.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 June 2022, 23:49:48
BA update:

availabilities and BV/AS stats should be good to go. note that you're going to find a faction listed under the squad size they use doctrinally. please report any oddities as usual
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 June 2022, 09:13:26
Up through the DA era, it looked like the MUL did not give mixed tech/Clan tech Omni configurations to periphery factions, even if they had access to other configurations of the same unit. Should this persist through the ilClan era, or do they finally permeate to the periphery by 3151?

Config avails should be standardized across the board now; let me know if you see anything I've missed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 09 June 2022, 13:01:01
Config avails should be standardized across the board now; let me know if you see anything I've missed.
Ok, I went through and it looks like there are a few TR3145 configs that slipped through the cracks...
Strider OH (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6917/strider-sr1-oh) and OM (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6916/strider-sr1-om) -- add Canopus to Late-Rep, DA, ilClan eras
Blackjack OG (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6908/blackjack-bj2-og) -- add Canopus to DA, ilClan eras
Men Shen OU (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2167/men-shen-ms1-ou) -- add Canopus to Early-Rep, Late-Rep, DA, and ilClan eras
Sunder OF (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6846/sunder-sd1-of) and OG (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6845/sunder-sd1-og) -- add Mercs to DA, ilClan eras, add RotS to DA era

Other IS Omnis all look good, though.



Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 June 2022, 13:04:16
the least entertaining game of whack-a-mole of all time
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 June 2022, 13:14:10
Tell me about it.
Should be fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dragon41673 on 09 June 2022, 17:06:26
So for the beta listings for ilClan...were the Ares & Poseidon tripods intentionally left off of Wolf's Dragoons? It is explicitly stated in Redemption Rites they captured several of them, and while I believe they were all given away to the FWL...they did a full tear down on them and built them back up, as well as pulled all the specs from them.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 09 June 2022, 17:25:39
While it does, and while they even kept a few badly damaged examples for themselves, they were not at any point shown to be using any.

If a future product shows them using the Ares or Poseidon in any capacity, we'll make sure to update the MUL.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 09 June 2022, 21:57:32
the least entertaining game of whack-a-mole of all time
How many more variants do I have to whack to unlock the "MUL Mole Whacker" achievement?  8)

Omni's look good so far now, btw. Will keep chugging along...

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 June 2022, 23:50:57
I’m in the process of filling about 15,000 holes for backend quality of life in data analysis so… lots  :D
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Dragon41673 on 10 June 2022, 17:48:47
While it does, and while they even kept a few badly damaged examples for themselves, they were not at any point shown to be using any.

If a future product shows them using the Ares or Poseidon in any capacity, we'll make sure to update the MUL.

Understood, thank you sir!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 10 June 2022, 18:00:38
Challenge accepted!

Here are a few more, though most are more confirmation than errata...

Phoenix Hawk L 11K2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6391/phoenix-hawk-l-fenikkusu-taka-pxh-11k2) needs Tamarind, Marik-Stewart, and Oriente availability in DA era (all have it in Late-Rep and unit has intro < 3139)

Is it intended that the Taurians get access to the Avalanche Omni (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6396/avalanche-avl-1o) (all configs) in ilClan era? That is quite the trade route…

Crusader 9R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8233/crusader-crd-9r): should Clan Wolf have availability in Dark Age? Produced on Oliver, which they control from 3146.
Same issue with Griffin 5M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1305/griffin-grf-5m). (and they have access to Goliath 7C and 7R in both DA and ilClan eras.)

Should Archer 7C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7731/archer-arc-7c) and 9R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7732/archer-arc-9r) have such different availabilities? I presumed both were produced at the same place (Earthwerks-Terra), but perhaps the 9R is just a refit?

Should SLDF Wolves get access to Prefect 1R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2569/prefect-prf-1r) and 2R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2571/prefect-prf-2r)? Produced on Irian (FWL-controlled), though maybe this is just Terra salvage?

Should some/all of the SLDF Clans (Wolves, Jags, Falcons) have ilClan era access to the Uraeus 7R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6677/uraeus-uae-7r)? Produced on New Earth (and SLDF Falcons have the Kheper 7R).

A related, more general question: When the SLDF Jags or Falcons have access to a unit that is being produced on or near Terra, should the SLDF Wolves have access, too?
(There are multiple IS/RotS models where it is only the Jags or Falcons who have access. Non-produced units could be chalked up to differential salvage, but figured it was worth checking on produced stuff... units at Skobel and Cosara Terran plants, and at NETC seem to be the main ones in question).   

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 10 June 2022, 18:32:35
Phoenix Hawk L: fixed, good catch.
Avalanche: intentional, for now.
Oliver: intentional. Wolves didn't control the planet for long enough in the DA era to warrant availability, with the Scorpion C being a notable exception.
Archer: fine as-is.
Prefect: fine as-is.
Uraeus: it and the Kheper are still a bit up in the air.

Quote
When the SLDF Jags or Falcons have access to a unit that is being produced on or near Terra, should the SLDF Wolves have access, too?

Not necessarily.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Weirdo on 10 June 2022, 18:36:57
I get that they'd be a far lower priority, but would it be possible to get the support vees from the AToW Companion added to the MUL sometime?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 11 June 2022, 18:04:11
Ilclan availability oddities:
* Simurgh O, OA, OB have Star League Wolf and Wolf's Dragoons Availability but the Simurgh Base has Star League Smoke jaguar instead.
* Simian, Centaur, Taranis and both variants of the Angerona BA still have RoTS availabilities for Sqd4 deployment
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 12 June 2022, 02:02:47
I get that they'd be a far lower priority, but would it be possible to get the support vees from the AToW Companion added to the MUL sometime?

currently working on them though there won't be much info in the entries.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 June 2022, 11:52:23
Ilclan availability oddities:
* Simurgh O, OA, OB have Star League Wolf and Wolf's Dragoons Availability but the Simurgh Base has Star League Smoke jaguar instead.
* Simian, Centaur, Taranis and both variants of the Angerona BA still have RoTS availabilities for Sqd4 deployment

Thanks, all of these should be fixed.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 12 June 2022, 17:42:08
Ok, I've made it through the IS 'Mechs. Here's a few more.

Flea 17 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1137/flea-fle-17):
1) Is Kurita gaining access in DA then losing it in ilClan era intentional?
2) Should FWL lose access in ilClan era? (Likely produced at Nimikachi/Lesnovo? …FM: 3085, p. 78)

Bloodhound B1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3838/bloodhound-b1-hnd), B2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3839/bloodhound-b2-hnd), and B3 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5671/bloodhound-b3-hnd): Should Clan Wolf have access in DA era? Definitely held Keystone for a while (but lines may have been idle?)

Should Tamar have Enfield 6S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/974/enfield-end-6s) (or some other variant) in ilClan era? They have access to other Blackstone units. Same question on Hunchback 5S (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1564/hunchback-hbk-5s) and/or 5SS (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1566/hunchback-hbk-5ss) (has access to other Norse-Storm units, and these are the ones likely produced).

Orion 1-M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2334/orion-on1-m) and MA (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4756/orion-on1-ma) need some Sundered FWL availabilities in the DA era to cover the 3031-38 period. ON1-M may also need Andurien in ilClan era.

Also, in general, should Wolf Empire mostly have access to to garrison/solahma units while SLDF Wolves have access to mostly frontline units that were available to Clan Wolf in DA? (given the forces that went to Terra/were left behind)


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 12 June 2022, 18:14:58
Flea: fixed.
Bloodhound: fixed.
Enfield/Hunchback: things are currently fine as-is.
Orions: the FWL substates strike back. Fixed.

Wolf Empire: Yes and no. Let's talk about this more once Empire Alone comes out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 12 June 2022, 21:53:37
Orions: the FWL substates strike back. Fixed.
That might actually be the last of them!

Wolf Empire: Yes and no. Let's talk about this more once Empire Alone comes out.
No worries. Really just wondering to avoid false positives for errata reporting, but I think Wolf availabilities have started to make sense after clicking on a dozen or so of their available Clan Tech 'Mechs.  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gribbly on 13 June 2022, 07:01:53
Will the 'standard' versions of the following mechs be added to 'HW Clan General' for Early and Late Succession Wars periods (similar to the Shadow Hawk IIC)?

Marauder IIC - intro 2828
Hellhound (Conjurer) - intro 2829
Warhammer IIC - intro 2829
Peregrine (Horned Owl) - intro 2835
Clint IIC - intro 2842
Wyvern IIC - intro 2843
Rifleman IIC - intro 2845
Phoenix Hawk IIC - intro 2851
Griffin IIC - intro 2852
Hunchback IIC - intro 2856
Highlander IIC - intro 2858
Guillotine IIC - intro 2889


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 13 June 2022, 07:37:54
Eventually. We have not yet given Succession War-era availabilities to most Clan units with an introductory date earlier than 2900, and our current priorities means that this might take a small while.

We'll make sure to post an announcement when it happens.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Gribbly on 13 June 2022, 07:55:39
Eventually. We have not yet given Succession War-era availabilities to most Clan units with an introductory date earlier than 2900, and our current priorities means that this might take a small while.

We'll make sure to post an announcement when it happens.

Excellent, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 13 June 2022, 14:00:41
I get that they'd be a far lower priority, but would it be possible to get the support vees from the AToW Companion added to the MUL sometime?

I've added these... at least as much as they can be added

http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/506/a-time-of-war-companion
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 14 June 2022, 20:22:42
A little over halfway through the Clanners. Finding these was like some sadistic game of Where's Waldo... but with faction icons.  xp

Uller I (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6932/uller-kit-fox-i) – missing Scorpion Empire in ilClan
Coyotl A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/713/coyotl-a) – missing Sea Foxes and Clan Protectorate in ilClan
Dragonfly G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/923/dragonfly-viper-g) – missing Escorpios/Scorpion Empire in all eras (Jihad through ilClan)
Black Hawk U (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/344/black-hawk-nova-u) – missing multiple factions in Jihad, missing Mercs, Wolf’s Dragoons in Late-Rep and DA era, missing Mercs in ilClan era
Black Hawk X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6910/black-hawk-nova-x) – missing Scorpion Empire in ilClan era
Nobori-nin F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6904/nobori-nin-huntsman-f) – missing Nova Cats in DA era (Intro year < 3142)
Ryoken F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2754/ryoken-stormcrow-f) and G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2755/ryoken-stormcrow-g) – missing Escorpios in DA era and Scorpion Empire in DA and ilClan eras
Vulture E (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3470/vulture-mad-dog-e) and F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3471/vulture-mad-dog-f) – missing Escorpios in DA era and Scorpion Empire in DA and ilClan eras
Cauldron-Born E (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/494/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-e) and X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/498/cauldron-born-ebon-jaguar-x) – missing Escorpios in DA era and Scorpion Empire in DA and ilClan eras
Linebacker (all configs) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1892/linebacker-prime) – Should Lyrans (and maybe Tamar) have access in ilClan era? (produced at Assault Tech Industries via RG06)
Thor G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3179/thor-summoner-g) and HH (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3181/thor-summoner-hh) – missing Escorpios in DA era and Scorpion Empire in DA and ilClan eras
Mad Cat TC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7595/mad-cat-timber-wolf-tc) and F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1983/mad-cat-timber-wolf-f) – missing Escorpios in DA era and Scorpion Empire in DA and ilClan eras
Iron Cheetah L (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8324/iron-cheetah-l) – missing Sea Foxes in DA era
Spider 8R (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3018/spider-sdr-8r) (and perhaps 8X (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3019/spider-sdr-8x)) -- Should SLDF Wolves (and/or other SLDF factions) have access? Spider 8R likely produced @ Krupp on Terra, and 8X possibly produced there, too (via TRO3085)


Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 June 2022, 10:52:41
Just saw this.
Availability mismatches fixed, tahnks.
Linebacker has gone to the Lyrans, Spider will stay as-is for now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: uz000 on 16 June 2022, 13:26:52
Warhawk (all variants) only available to Scorpion Empire in IlClan era? Surely most IS Clans would have this mech, but especially reformed Clan Smoke Jaguar?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 June 2022, 14:01:55
Warhawk availabilities will be remaining as-is for now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 16 June 2022, 14:29:45
Given the Tamar Pact, Vespers Marches etc are on the list will the Oberon Confederation be making an appearance or are they Periphery General exclusively?

I ask as according to Tamar Rising they are receiving equipment from the Red Hunter which I wouldn't expect to see available anywhere else.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 16 June 2022, 14:45:38
No plans for now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 16 June 2022, 15:26:42
FYI -- I finished looking through the remaining DA/ilClan 'Mechs and didn't find any other issues.  :thumbsup:

One minor issue I saw, though, was for the Clan Protectorate. Have you guys considered giving them a FWL faction tag in the DA era to identify the units they have then? Right now, there are a few units that only have Nova Cat availability in the DA era, so it's as if they don't exist between 3142 and 3151 and then magically reappear.

I know the CP representation is still in flux, but I am guessing that these units would ultimately have either a FWL or CP faction tag in the DA era eventually anyway.
 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 17 June 2022, 16:35:47
Some vessels from TRO3025 Revised are unstated on the MUL:
Cargoking DS p. 116
Cargomaster DS p. 118
Quetzalcoatl Scout JS p. 126

From Housebook Arano the Argo DS is misfiled as a JS
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 17 June 2022, 16:44:44
Some vessels from TRO3025 Revised are unstated on the MUL:
Cargoking DS p. 116
Cargomaster DS p. 118
Quetzalcoatl Scout JS p. 126
TR3025R predates the current construction rules by so much that the only thing I know for sure about their stats is that those are not them any more.
Quote
From Housebook Arano the Argo DS is misfiled as a JS
Corrected. Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 17 June 2022, 18:55:56
TR3025R predates the current construction rules by so much that the only thing I know for sure about their stats is that those are not them any more.
Sorry, typoed that.  TRO 3026 Revised which IIRC would put it in the same ruleset as 3057 Revised. Tonnage is likely correct for both and if the math has changed since the switch to SO just add/subtract from cargo.  Luckily the DropShips are both cargo carriers and the Quetzalcoatl has plenty as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sky Rider on 18 June 2022, 16:45:24
Hello!
I have question about Jade Falcon IlCLan mech list. Dark Age have 525 mechs, IlClan - 338.
I'm pretty new player but have most of disapeared chassis and curious if the fate of Invasion mechs that I had (Kodiak, Piranha, Viper, Daishi, Massakari etc) will repeat and they will be avaliable only for shelf.
Chassis that are missing:
-Howler
-Butcherbird
-Arctic Cheetah
-Hellion
-Adder
-Phantom
-Grendel
-Hellhound
-Vapor Eagle
-Shadow Cat II
-Crossbow
-Naga
-Marauder IIC
-Onager
-Lots of Bane models

Sorry if this question is silly, I know that Jade Falcons lost battle for Terra and lost their best Khan, but it's realy hurt THAT much?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 18 June 2022, 17:24:05
'Mech availabilities have and will always ebb and flow for each faction within each era.

In this case, the Falcons have split into three "subfactions" of sorts. The intent behind the current distribution is to give each list a unique yet recognizable flavor, while also refreshing and streamlining their lists to reflect what each military might look like after the massive material/manpower losses that were suffered.

With that said, the SLDF factions are still in flux, and may see further evolution as more material comes out.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 19 June 2022, 00:36:19
Per the Battle of Tukayyid sourcebook, Royal variants of mechs like the Highlander and Shadow Hawk were present in the Comguard's forces.  However, they are not presently listed as being available to Comster during the Clan Invasion era.  Should they be or are they considered too rare to count?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 June 2022, 16:01:41
No plans for now.

Fair enough, if I was to do a force for the Confederation would I use the Periphery General or Pirate list?

Also should there be a Marauder variant on one or both of the above lists? Both have a Marauder II listed but none of the original design.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 19 June 2022, 16:04:25
Pirates are part of periphery general so both
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Rainbow 6 on 19 June 2022, 16:23:23
Pirates are part of periphery general so both

Cheers.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 19 June 2022, 16:39:30
Hm. Yes. I've added Pirate to the Red Hunter as well, since his career path appears to be a bit complicated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Henning on 20 June 2022, 08:46:19
Just out of curiosity:
The Ares Superheavies are available for both Davion and Marik in the IlClan era. I thought these Mechs were not that widely available, only produced on Terra and all either destroyed on Terra or captured by the Wolves (and kind of "handled" by the Foxes). Or are the Foxes now selling these IS wide?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 20 June 2022, 09:23:10
To quote a classic BattleTech expression: time will tell.

But, as always, it's important to remember that ilClan availabilities are still in flux.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 21 June 2022, 04:25:12
I have noticed an odd thing while looking at the Phoenix Hawk availability.

PXH-3D and PXH-3S used shift to a limited availability in Late Republic then extinct in Dark Ages.  However, both of them now have Scorpion Empire availability in Dark Ages and IlClan eras.  The only other access that the Scorpinos have to Phoenix Hawks is the good old PXH-1.  There doesn't seem to be an easy source of these models to Scorpion territory, the out-of-production Federated suns variant especially so.
I think these may have been added in error.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 21 June 2022, 07:16:12
There are a few others like that on the Scorpion list---they're all tied to their conquest and assimilation of the Hanseatic worlds.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 22 June 2022, 02:38:19
I had spotted those, but it seemed especially out of place for a design across the other side of the sphere.  All the other ones I've found so far were either generically available or originated in Lyran space, the nearest IS state.  Or is this an example of convergent design evolution?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 22 June 2022, 09:33:46
The Goshawk II 2 and Goshawk II 3 are both listed as "Standard" tech level, but shouldn't they be "Advanced" and "Experimental" based on their introduction date?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 June 2022, 13:15:53
The Goshawk II 2 and Goshawk II 3 are both listed as "Standard" tech level, but shouldn't they be "Advanced" and "Experimental" based on their introduction date?
2 is standard as ER Flamer is TL circa '81. Armored Components are Advanced circa '83.

At least going by TRO Prototypes tech advancement table, don't think it has been erratad anywhere?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 22 June 2022, 13:55:30
More a technical issue than anything, but has anyone else noticed that the image host for the unit art has been really slow lately?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 June 2022, 14:14:25
it has bad days. today is definitely one of them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 22 June 2022, 14:15:55
Any particular reason why the MUL relies on a 3rd-party image host specifically for unit art, come to think?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 June 2022, 14:28:02
it's free
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 22 June 2022, 14:31:43
it's free
I mean- sure but... you're already paying for the MUL servers? You already have loads of graphics on there?
Granted, I can understand storage space being a concern, and it is a lot of images, but I know for a fact they're also not particularly high-resolution.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 June 2022, 14:33:19
this has been reviewed internally.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 22 June 2022, 14:36:32
this has been reviewed internally.
Fair enough. I'm sure TPTB have their reasons.
With that, [/topic].
Back to your regularly scheduled gathering-outside-of-GreekFire's-house-with-torches-pitchforks-and-sourcebooks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 23 June 2022, 10:30:10
Missing from the MUL, Auxiliary Defense Tank ADT-1 from TtS Granada p. 12
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 June 2022, 17:25:30
huh. turns out i entered them a while ago. just forgot to make them visible.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 23 June 2022, 22:34:32
The MUL lists the source of the ADTs as TtS:Valencia. Correct source is  TtS:Granada.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 23 June 2022, 22:38:29
the tanks have been moved to the appropriate spain-themed planet
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 24 June 2022, 00:56:36
So when I find a vehicle in the MUL and want to buy the source material containing the TRO entry or RS, the MUL directs me to the wrong pdf?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 June 2022, 01:36:21
mistakes happen
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 24 June 2022, 01:40:53
Ah, sorry, I (mis-)understood that the tanks were intentionally moved to TtS:Valencia
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 24 June 2022, 17:32:40
I guess the Hammerhead is available now to IS general as well as clan general.
From the Hammerhead  premium mini news on this site:
"The Hammerhead is 45-ton, ilClan era design by Clan Sea Fox, provided to all Clans and Inner Sphere factions in a tariff-free offering."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 24 June 2022, 18:05:44
While it's a strong hint that Sea Fox may be selling to spheroids soon, I'm fairly certain promotional blurbs can't dictate canon availability on their own.

Availability also doesn't just mean "you can buy it", it means "you have bought it, and can call on a non-individual quantity for active use." At least, that's my one-sentence description, I'm sure Sartris and GreekFire could produce better summaries. While I'm sure that Sea Fox's opening of the flood gates to I.S. buyers would include an aggressive advertising campaign to every corner of the Sphere, it's not really I.S. General until every single active I.S. faction on the MUL buys or salvages a meaningful quantity.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 24 June 2022, 18:11:00
this is now an internal discussion. thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 24 June 2022, 18:46:22
I guess the Hammerhead is available now to IS general as well as clan general.
From the Hammerhead  premium mini news on this site:
"The Hammerhead is 45-ton, ilClan era design by Clan Sea Fox, provided to all Clans and Inner Sphere factions in a tariff-free offering."

Actual real life marketing materials are not considered canon.  Clan Sea Fox is not canonically able to market its offerings to 2022. :)
Recognition Guide 05's "The Sea Foxes sell the Hammerhead to all buyers, as long as those buyers happen to be Clan." is still our canon reference for Hammerhead availability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Nerroth on 24 June 2022, 22:59:15
As a follow-up to the IlClan Era Scorpion Empire question (and reply (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/msg1840425/#msg1840425)) from a few pages back:

In light of the Hammerhead premium miniature release, has there been any further consideration as to whether or not to make this 'Mech design one of the Clan Sea Fox designs now available to the Goliath Scorpions courtesy of the "Sea Fox Two-Step"?

And/or perhaps through subsequent trade (or even the odd Trial of Possession) between Sea Fox and Goliath Scorpion forces deployed to the Chaine Cluster?

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Krachenvogel on 25 June 2022, 09:55:17
The Centurion CN10-J from Shrapnel Issue 2 is listed on MUL with Sniper as its role. On the record sheet its role is Brawler. Which is correct? I assume the record sheet?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 25 June 2022, 10:13:58
As a follow-up to the IlClan Era Scorpion Empire question (and reply (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/msg1840425/#msg1840425)) from a few pages back:

In light of the Hammerhead premium miniature release, has there been any further consideration as to whether or not to make this 'Mech design one of the Clan Sea Fox designs now available to the Goliath Scorpions courtesy of the "Sea Fox Two-Step"?

And/or perhaps through subsequent trade (or even the odd Trial of Possession) between Sea Fox and Goliath Scorpion forces deployed to the Chaine Cluster?

Certain adjustments have taken place, yes.

The Centurion CN10-J from Shrapnel Issue 2 is listed on MUL with Sniper as its role. On the record sheet its role is Brawler. Which is correct? I assume the record sheet?

Thank you, corrected. Brawler is correct.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: ShroudedSciuridae on 25 June 2022, 21:49:15
This is more curiosity than anything else, but Hi-Scout Drone Carrier (Standard) has me scratching my head.

Every Era is IS General availability, seems a little odd for a high tech vehicle produced in 3000 to reach every market by the time LSW-LosTech ends in 19 years, but that's a tangent.

By Civil War it adds Mercenary availability, which seems redundant.

Jihad adds Kell Hounds and Dragoons to the mix, and I'm really just left wondering why.

I feel like IS General would cover everyone, and Mercenaries should definitely cover the dog pack. Any illumination is appreciated.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 June 2022, 22:05:25
IS general is only nation-states. the merc list is its own thing that does not draw from any other source. the kell hounds and dragoons are separate from the general mercs due to their ability to produce large quantities of original equipment

see the IS General page for a list of what that includes from era to era http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/55
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 26 June 2022, 02:30:25
I just want to take a minute to express my gratitude and admiration for the work the MUL team performs day in and day out, especially the extremely quick, comprehensive and always patient and polite way to reply to the questions and requests of an often - let's say - extremely detail oriented crowd that we sometimes tend to be (guilty as charged!).
I have never had a question or report not answered, and even if it wasn't always the decision I had hoped for, it was always done in a real professional manner.

Stellar work, guys (and girls?) :clap:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 26 June 2022, 04:09:59
IS general is only nation-states. the merc list is its own thing that does not draw from any other source. the kell hounds and dragoons are separate from the general mercs due to their ability to produce large quantities of original equipment
*snip*
So, do they have access to the general Mercenary list too, or only their own lists?  ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Cache on 26 June 2022, 06:26:56
So, do they have access to the general Mercenary list too, or only their own lists?  ???
http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/34
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 26 June 2022, 06:35:56
Thanks!  Here's the text:
Quote
This is a general Mercenary availability. A unit available to this "faction" is not necessarily available to the Kell Hounds or Wolf's Dragoons, but is representative of what is used by other mercenary outfits.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 26 June 2022, 08:10:16
I just want to take a minute to express my gratitude and admiration for the work the MUL team performs day in and day out, especially the extremely quick, comprehensive and always patient and polite way to reply to the questions and requests of an often - let's say - extremely detail oriented crowd that we sometimes tend to be (guilty as charged!).
I have never had a question or report not answered, and even if it wasn't always the decision I had hoped for, it was always done in a real professional manner.

Stellar work, guys (and girls?) :clap:

Thank you, much appreciated.

And on behalf of the team: thank you to everyone who posts in these threads.
The MUL would not be what it is today without the help of you all.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 26 June 2022, 09:20:24
So, do they have access to the general Mercenary list too, or only their own lists?  ???

A faction has two sets of availability for each era - its own and an attendant general list that represents the middle of a Venn diagram where all considered parties have the same items.

Generic merc, Kell hounds, wolf’s dragoons, and the imperio / scorpion empire are unique in that they draw from the Blank General, which is empty. What their faction list says is the whole enchilada for them. So KH and WD’s lists are completely independent of the general mercs and vice versa
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 26 June 2022, 09:33:03
Thanks for the clarification Sartris!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: CVB on 26 June 2022, 09:39:06
So that Blank General is the needed piece of info. Thanks!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 26 June 2022, 10:30:01
Hello, as everyone says excellent work, I have some doubts


I was seeing that we have the Wight 2SC again, but it seemed strange to me that after the two periods of the Republic the 3SC version disappeared from the MUL Marian, with all our neighbors having accessibility to the model, it seemed strange to me that we did not have it

Second topic, I was seeing that several designs that come to us from the IIClan Era Periphery General List are designs that appear in the options of this list of the Tamar Rising Book
It can be deduced that other designs from that list of options will be integrated
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 26 June 2022, 10:36:17
I was seeing that we have the Wight 2SC again, but it seemed strange to me that after the two periods of the Republic the 3SC version disappeared from the MUL Marian, with all our neighbors having accessibility to the model, it seemed strange to me that we did not have it

That was in error. Thanks, fixed.

Quote
Second topic, I was seeing that several designs that come to us from the IIClan Era Periphery General List are designs that appear in the options of this list of the Tamar Rising Book
It can be deduced that other designs from that list of options will be integrated

Not necessarily, no.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 26 June 2022, 11:52:11
Thank you for the prompt response Greekfire very kind!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 26 June 2022, 20:39:47
Hello Solved the previous topic I started to see if there could be another similar case from the period of the Republic to Dark Age.

Apart from several cases of primitive mechs disappearing like the Archer and the Primitive Rifleman or the Phoenix there are other cases that made me a little "noise"

Scorpion-1O
wolverine 7m
Wolverines 7M2
Catapult C1b
Orion 1 - MA
Charger 1A5


The Scorpion seemed strange to me because it is a relatively modern model and disappeared as if nothing from one period to another.

The case of the two models of Wolverine I don't know what to attribute it to, the Hegemony deploys a fairly large number of models of this mech which rules out that it lacked spare parts or weapons for this mech

The case of the Catapult is even rarer at a stroke we lose all the models that are not the RL version, in this case it surprises me for different reasons, the Model that I put The C1b is quite common among the neighbors and the Mercenary Market for what I have been observing other models like the C5A is a Field Refit that everyone does and appears in Tamar Rising as  Periphery General List
Another one of the versions of Arrow created the Hegemony making the Arrow IV system, I don't think I can't replicate it like Refit


In the case of the Orion, it is I think a refit of the 1M that is listed in Periphery General in Tamar Rising and there are several neighbors who still have it.

The Charger is perhaps the least I could discuss but since I like the model I ask about it too


Those are the ones that caught my attention the most, although there are some more like the Xanthos-20 and some more
 
Thank you very much in advance and sorry if I bother


Let's get the C1b that I just saw is extinct
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 26 June 2022, 20:57:25
It's possible this has been brought up, but from Necromo Nightmare, should the following ProtoMechs be available to the Word of Blake circa Jihad?
- Erinyes
- Orc
- Satyr
- Chrysaor
- Hydra
- Roc
- Gorgon
- Minotaur
(All standard configurations)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: GreekFire on 26 June 2022, 21:28:34
*snip*

Thank you for your feedback. A few adjustments have been made.

It's possible this has been brought up, but from Necromo Nightmare, should the following ProtoMechs be available to the Word of Blake circa Jihad?

No.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 27 June 2022, 10:11:35
Thanks for the answer Greekfire it is a great task that you do
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 28 June 2022, 10:13:04
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8258/wolverine-wvr-11m

Seems to be erroneously classified as advanced even though it has only standard tech for its time. RG18 record sheet labels it "standard" as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 28 June 2022, 10:41:37
fixed. likely a copy/create error... probably from the 9W
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 June 2022, 09:37:16
Elemental <base> for IlClan era is suddenly available to the Kell Hounds, but judging by some other variants, Kell Hounds should probably be Scorpion Empire instead. And this also makes me wonder if AP Gauss variant should be available for the Scorpion Empire, or is that weapon among the few techs they don't possess?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7921/elemental-battle-armor-base
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8493/elemental-battle-armor-ap-gauss-sqd5

Also, listing both Clan Smoke Jaguar and IS Clan General seems odd as the former seems to be part of the latter. Is this because of the era's beta status?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 June 2022, 09:53:41
scorpion empire was missing from the <Base>. Added.

Kell hounds are correct. You'll notice they've been added to the Sqd4 entries, as that's the formation size they use
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/958/elemental-battle-armor-flamer-sqd4

the nuJags are indeed IS Clan General and will be removed in the cases where those availabilities overlap
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 June 2022, 10:34:49
the nuJags should no longer be doubling up with IS Clan General
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 29 June 2022, 10:36:22
Kell hounds are correct. You'll notice they've been added to the Sqd4 entries, as that's the formation size they use
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/958/elemental-battle-armor-flamer-sqd4
Ah yes, somehow i forgot Kell Hounds are Spheroids. Perhaps my brain tends to interpret them as sort-of Clanners.

Thanks
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellfire on 30 June 2022, 19:23:55
I really hate to post this without having the book, but I've waited forever to post it.

The Ares Attack Craft Mk VII, not to be confused with Ares Assault Craft Mk VII, listed in the Ares Attack Craft Mk IX entry in TRO: 3085 is missing.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 30 June 2022, 19:55:07
Ack... that's a horrible naming problem!  :P
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 June 2022, 22:23:42
I have asked The Expert on this. The 'Ares' designation and type (landing craft vs close assault landing craft vs attack craft, etc) are all part of the same series

The Ares Marks are:
Mk. I - Ares Landing Craft
Mk. II - Ares Close Assault Landing Craft
Mk. III - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. IV - Landing Craft
Mk. V - Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VI - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. VII - Ares Assault Craft, Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VII-C - Landing Craft
Mk. IX - Ares Attack Craft

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 01 July 2022, 03:24:44
Thanks for sorting that out Sartris!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 July 2022, 08:54:13
MapCapellan figured out that pile of spaghetti
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellfire on 01 July 2022, 17:56:38
I have asked The Expert on this. The 'Ares' designation and type (landing craft vs close assault landing craft vs attack craft, etc) are all part of the same series

The Ares Marks are:
Mk. I - Ares Landing Craft
Mk. II - Ares Close Assault Landing Craft
Mk. III - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. IV - Landing Craft
Mk. V - Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VI - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. VII - Ares Assault Craft, Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VII-C - Landing Craft
Mk. IX - Ares Attack Craft
There is a MUL entry for the MK VII Ares Assault Craft (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3727/ares-assault-craft-mk-vii#civil-war) from TRO:3085. Does that mean the MUL reflects a name change from TRO: 3085's Attack to Assault that hasn't shown up in errata for TRO: 3085 yet? It makes sense to change TRO: 3085 to match the later products naming scheme for the earlier in universe Ares.

TRO: 3085 pg 120
"the long-range landing craft (LRLC)—best known for its most-produced version, the MK VII—has long been the most recognizable of the three, with the close attack landing craft (CALC) and the combat-orient-ed Ares attack craft (AAC) often mistaken for their more common cousin."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 01 July 2022, 18:41:43
While i am sure you all know, i figure id mention it, the newest ilClan factions (from Tamar Rising) do not have little blurbs about them
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 01 July 2022, 19:28:49
There is a MUL entry for the MK VII Ares Assault Craft (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3727/ares-assault-craft-mk-vii#civil-war) from TRO:3085. Does that mean the MUL reflects a name change from TRO: 3085's Attack to Assault that hasn't shown up in errata for TRO: 3085 yet? It makes sense to change TRO: 3085 to match the later products naming scheme for the earlier in universe Ares.

TRO: 3085 pg 120
"the long-range landing craft (LRLC)—best known for its most-produced version, the MK VII—has long been the most recognizable of the three, with the close attack landing craft (CALC) and the combat-orient-ed Ares attack craft (AAC) often mistaken for their more common cousin."

Yes

While i am sure you all know, i figure id mention it, the newest ilClan factions (from Tamar Rising) do not have little blurbs about them

On the list that I keep in my head and often forget about
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 01 July 2022, 21:25:59
MapCapellan figured out that pile of spaghetti
Well, then +1 to him for figuring out, and still +1 to you for posting it here!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 05 July 2022, 04:28:32
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 05 July 2022, 05:40:08
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/811/daishi-dire-wolf-widowmaker

Noticed that Widowmaker config is not listed as unique but is instead treated as a common configuration. Is this intended?
If not, i assume correct availabilities would be Clan Wolf/Unique for Clan Invasion era and extinct afterwards.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Adacas on 05 July 2022, 06:13:08
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.
4H is still available in the IlClan Era for the Marian Hegemony and Pirates
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 05 July 2022, 10:54:55
One more minor errata on the Wight 2C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3550/wight-wgt-2sc) -- it's missing Taurian availability in the Late Rep era (has it both before and after).
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 July 2022, 10:59:10
they were hiding them fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 July 2022, 11:03:46
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.

i want to say this was intentional. i'll have to dig up my notes
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 July 2022, 11:24:41
confirmed intentional. it had nothing to do with the hegemony. luck of the draw that it's still around an others are gone
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 06 July 2022, 05:21:09
confirmed intentional. it had nothing to do with the hegemony. luck of the draw that it's still around an others are gone

Thanks for taking the time to look.  It was one of those things that looked fine on the surface but then a bit odd in the detail.  But there are enough 'Mechs and variants out there for some coincidences to happen.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 06 July 2022, 14:48:27
I wonder about the Sunder introduction date.
MUL has it as 3056, but TRO3058U text (page 154) indicates deployment began in late 3054. But it seems the Avatar is implicitly the fourth Inner Sphere OmniMech introduced, after Raptor, Owens and Blackhawk-KU, and of these the Owens is explicitly first deployed in 3056.
Should MUL date be moved up a couple of years and Owens date be reported as errata, or should the Sunder be reported as errata for TRO3058U ("change 3054 to '56")?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3123/sunder-sd1-o
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 July 2022, 15:22:40
My copy of TR3058U (corrected second printing, first printed by CGL) already has it errated to 3056.  "prevented widespread Sunder deployment until late in 3056."
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 06 July 2022, 15:30:08
Ah, okay, it wasn't in the errata thread so it is probably quite old errata. So nevermind that.

Minor thing: Marksman MBT M1 is marked as the featured variant (the star thing) rather than M1A which is the actual featured variant in TRO3085 Supplemental.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 06 July 2022, 15:36:03
Yeah, I remembered putting that errata request in, so I was looking for it.  Then realized it's not in errata thread because the first printing was pre-CGL.  it was errata to the FanPro version. Errata only gets posted for the CGL printings..

Marksman corrected, thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 11 July 2022, 07:15:27
I understand that, post-3085, the Homeworld Clans don't really have much of anything to say that we know of, but The Wars of Reaving and its Supplemental do give us, circa 3090, a very clear picture of designs that were adopted and abandoned, as well as more than a few that can be verified as being retained. With that, I'd think there's easily enough information to put together sufficiently reliable availabilities for Early Republic reflecting the decades immediately after the conclusion of the Reavings (with the understanding, of course, that some availabilities may change when and if the Homeworlders re-enter the picture). Sure, I don't see all that many jumping at the bit to play 3085 or other post-Reaving Homeworlds stuff, but given the amount of hard evidence we have as-is, it seems a shame not to better facilitate it.

Sorting out ilClan takes priority, of course, no denying that.

Of course, I doubt I'm the first person to float this idea, and I doubt I'll be the last to have it shot down. If you don't mind my asking, if the answer is "no," could I at least get a little peek behind the scenes as to why?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 11 July 2022, 07:31:06
Someday CGL will (presumably) want to tell that story, and it's not going to be through the MUL posting it.  We follow, not lead.  When BattleTech picks up the Homeworld Clans again and advances their story, then the MUL will follow that story.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 11 July 2022, 08:49:31
Respectfully, they have told the story up through the first half of Early Republic, that's my point.

But I get it, they're in a weird place. Much as I'd like an application of the hard evidence we've gotten, I understand not really wanting to poke that until they're relevant and, for lack of a better word, "supported" again.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kerfuffin(925) on 15 July 2022, 23:50:34
MUL is down
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 15 July 2022, 23:52:19
there has been some database instability over the past couple days. we are aware of the issue.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 16 July 2022, 06:25:02
Any ETR? ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 16 July 2022, 10:15:22
No. The admin has yet to ascertain what’s going on.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 16 July 2022, 10:30:54
Rog, thanks for letting us know... best of luck getting it fixed!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 20 July 2022, 10:16:10
The faction availability of the Ostroc OSR-2C is incorrect in the Star League Era.

Star League General and Terran Hegemony are both listed there, but since Terran Hegemony also uses the Star League General list, this should please be checked.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2348/ostroc-osr-2c
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 20 July 2022, 11:13:14
true story. fixed, thanks

one of those artifacts left behind in the cleanup after implementing SL General
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 20 July 2022, 11:22:42
true story. fixed, thanks

one of those artifacts left behind in the cleanup after implementing SL General

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Karasu on 21 July 2022, 03:46:29
Oddly, I was also looking at Ostrocs and noticed that the OSR-5C is introduced in 3082 but is available to the Fronc Reaches during the Jihad era from 3068-3080.  I'm guessing that the availability should only start in the next era - Early Republic.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 July 2022, 08:12:53
Leftover from when the jihad era ended in 3085. Fixed
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 21 July 2022, 14:01:58
The Spartan SPT-N2 lists Terran Hegemony, Star League Regular and Star League Royal in the Star League Era. Accordingly, the variant could simply be transferred to the Star League General list.

In the Early Succession War Era, Clan Fire Mandrill and HW Clan General are listed. One of the two should be wrong.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 July 2022, 14:12:45
thanks again for your dilligence

Star League General applied for the SL era. Waiting on confirmation for the clan stuff

Update: This guy is a Mandrill exclusive until 2900 when it goes extinct in the homeworlds
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 21 July 2022, 15:07:54
The Cestus CTS-6Y is listed in the Early Succession War Era for Clan Burrock, Clan Fire Mandrill, Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Smoke Jaguar, and for HW Clan General. Thus, there is something incorrect here as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 21 July 2022, 15:11:47
now that these are coming up, i'm recalling a shift from generic HW clan gen to more limited distribution when TRO: Irregulars was released
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 July 2022, 17:56:04
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=malice

Are the Malice XT's and XP's intro dates correct? The latter's more advanced with ClanTech, one would imagine it is a later model and the XT being the original 3132 model. Or is this just one of those cases where the TRO featured variant is newer and lower tech?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: cavingjan on 21 July 2022, 18:24:30
Yes. It started as a clan tech mech before getting a more affordable merc friendly version. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 21 July 2022, 18:38:23
Okay thanks, can put that out of my mind then!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Kharn01 on 22 July 2022, 03:00:30
IS Standard LRM20 does how much damage?

Archer 2R -> has 2x LRM20
Damage Long Range = 3

Sturmfeur (Standard)-> has 2x LRM20
Damage Long Range = 2

Sturmfeur (SRM) -> has 1x LRM20
Damage Long Range = 2

Do I miss something? Companion says LRM20 = 1,2 on Long Range rounding up. So the Sturmfeur (Standard) is incorrect?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 22 July 2022, 07:44:35
The Sturmfeur Standard doesn't have enough ammo (9 shots per launcher total), so it takes damage penalty. Need to have at least 10 shots per weapon, or damage gets multiplied by 0.75.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 22 July 2022, 09:35:57
The introduction date of the Stuka STU-K5b should be wrong. As far as I know, the ER PPC was available from 2751.

Another indication is that the predecessor version, the Stuka STU-K5b2, has the identical introduction date.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 22 July 2022, 11:27:03
The description of the Periphery General list is incomplete for the Star League era.

The Rim World Republic - Home Guard & Terran Corps should be listed there, because both factions rely on the Periphery General list.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/57
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 22 July 2022, 11:43:56
sure enough. added
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Maelwys on 23 July 2022, 08:22:58
Not really sure where to ask this...but....

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9239/rattlesnake-jr7-31p

Has a date of 3043, which is 7 years before c3 slaves went into standard production, but like..4 years after the prototype went into production, so its not outside the realm of possibility (not even going to ask what c3 master its supposed to be connecting to at that point).

But since the c3 slave is prototype at the time of creation, shouldn't it be considered an experimental design rather than standard?

edit
Also not sure if its errata or not, but since those designs were made in the 3040s, shouldn't the record sheet have a Succession War logo and not a Dark Age?/edit
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 23 July 2022, 09:10:44
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4409/jormungand-class-bluewater-cruiser-standard

So, weird one. Jormungand-class bluewater cruiser from Handbook House Steiner. Introduced 2902, but apparently it has CASE, well after it became lostech.
Perhaps there should be "Jormungand (original)" dated to that time, with the current one being updated version produced/refitted after lostech recovery?

That said, it doesn't have anything high tech otherwise, so perhaps CASE should be errata'd away? Errata thread doesn't have any notes on this but perhaps there was something in earlier forum iterations as the book is nearly 20 years old.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 23 July 2022, 10:08:30
The Brunel Dump Truck (AC) ( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3864/brunel-dump-truck-ac ) and Brunel Dump Truck (LRM) ( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3865/brunel-dump-truck-lrm ) are assigned to the ComStar faction in the MUL during the Early Succession War (2781 - 2900). However, the sourcebook is Operation: Klondike and in the Rules Annex on page 158 the two vehicles are assigned to the Pentagon Powers.

Accordingly, the faction should be Star League Exile instead.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Bosefius on 23 July 2022, 20:42:03
The force builder on the MUL is listing the BV multiplier as 1.38 for 3 gunnery, 4 piloting. This is incorrect, as of the 6th printing of the Tech Manual (page 315) this multiplier should be 1.32.

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Alvar on 24 July 2022, 15:52:29
The Rotunda Scout Vehicle RND-J-1-11 (RL) has no faction for the Early Succession War Era.

This should be Star League in Exile (see Operation Klondike, p. 157).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2747/rotunda-scout-vehicle-rnd-j-1-11-rl
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 25 July 2022, 15:05:02
The Brunel Dump Truck (AC) ( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3864/brunel-dump-truck-ac ) and Brunel Dump Truck (LRM) ( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3865/brunel-dump-truck-lrm ) are assigned to the ComStar faction in the MUL during the Early Succession War (2781 - 2900). However, the sourcebook is Operation: Klondike and in the Rules Annex on page 158 the two vehicles are assigned to the Pentagon Powers.

Accordingly, the faction should be Star League Exile instead.

SL in exile added. The Comstar availability precedes much of my manual entry work and will stay put (call it convergent evolution)

The Rotunda Scout Vehicle RND-J-1-11 (RL) has no faction for the Early Succession War Era.

This should be Star League in Exile (see Operation Klondike, p. 157).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2747/rotunda-scout-vehicle-rnd-j-1-11-rl

also added. one of the flatbed trucks was missing from the SLiE and has been fixed as well.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: worktroll on 29 July 2022, 16:08:59
Question: availability of the Bellona hovertank in Dark Age (at least.)

I realise MechWarrior game piece are not necessarily considered canon fact, but using Warrenborn (a reliable source of DA unit information), the Bellona is available as a generic piece to the following factions:

Pure mercenary: Bannson's Raiders
House semi-factions: Spirit Cats, Dragon's Fury
House militaries: House Liao, House Steiner, House Davion

The Highlanders also have access to a unique pilot version, but put that aside for the moment.

Given the wide factional and geographical spread in the MW:DA game, it seems curious that the Bellona is factionally available (via the MUL) only to Clan Hell's Horses for its entire existence.

Is there a reason for this (that ideally can be shared), is this something on the radar but yet to be looked at, or any other explanation that can be shared?

Would there be room to review possible availabilities prior to Dark Age, given the wide spread by Dark Age?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hussar2 on 29 July 2022, 19:14:04
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9242/rattlesnake-ii-rsn-2

The battlevalue should be 1480 and not 1962 like it's much better variant the  RSN-1
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Hellraiser on 29 July 2022, 20:13:03
I'm not sure if this is the right place or not.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8410/field-gun-infantry-platoon-ac10

The Alpha Strike Card & The MUL Page both say 40 tons.

But, I'm not sure how you get to 40 tons?

Motorized Platoon 28 men = 6 Tons
2x AC10 = 24 Tons
2x Ammo = 2 Tons

That is 32 Tons.

Meanwhile, if the word "Motorized" is not accurate & its supposed to be "Mechanized" that would be 14 Troopers, which in turn isn't enough for 2 AC10's.

I think the Tonnage is probably what is wrong v/s the Name, Infantry Type, Platoon size, & # of Guns.

The Movement of 4 also matches what a Motorized Platoon would be if it was kitted out w/ Support Weapons, but, I have no idea how the platoon is set up, so maybe the Movement is also wrong?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 29 July 2022, 20:33:30
It should be CAR32.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 29 July 2022, 21:00:48
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9242/rattlesnake-ii-rsn-2

The battlevalue should be 1480 and not 1962 like it's much better variant the  RSN-1

Post bv calcs

You are correct I was looking at the wrong sheet
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greatclub on 30 July 2022, 20:27:53
nevermind, brainfart
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 30 July 2022, 20:31:00
Recovered 3037
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Greatclub on 30 July 2022, 20:33:39
Recovered 3037

yeah, I conflated them with the IS er small and medium for some reason.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Richard S. on 01 August 2022, 15:05:26
Not sure if this is quite the right place to ask this, but would it be possible/practical to give units multiple sources? So like a unit could appear under both the TRSW and TR3039 lists, for instance?

On a different note, the FLC-4N's art is the old Wolf's Dragoons picture instead of the much nicer one from 3039. Not sure if that's an issue really, just seemed odd.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 01 August 2022, 15:11:03
Not sure if this is quite the right place to ask this, but would it be possible/practical to give units multiple sources? So like a unit could appear under both the TRSW and TR3039 lists, for instance?
Not possible with the site we have now.  It's on the wishlist of new features.

Quote
On a different note, the FLC-4N's art is the old Wolf's Dragoons picture instead of the much nicer one from 3039. Not sure if that's an issue really, just seemed odd.
Yeah, that's an issue.  Deploying MUL ninjas now.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Autotuna on 03 August 2022, 12:39:06
The Gorilla Exoskelleton BA is 5 points for the non-combat, industrial version, but 3 points for the modified combat version, both for a squad of 4.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4225/gorilla-exoskeleton-pex-2b-sqd4
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5440/gorilla-exoskeleton-falcata-sqd4

Alex suggested this may be a swapping of the point values, since the industrial version is basically just fluff with no combat ability.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 August 2022, 12:53:02
The Gorilla Exoskelleton BA is 5 points for the non-combat, industrial version, but 3 points for the modified combat version, both for a squad of 4.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4225/gorilla-exoskeleton-pex-2b-sqd4
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5440/gorilla-exoskeleton-falcata-sqd4

Alex suggested this may be a swapping of the point values, since the industrial version is basically just fluff with no combat ability.

These are correct, though odd.  There is a discount for combat units that are slow and short range only.  Non-combat units can't get the discount. 
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Geg on 03 August 2022, 12:59:04
Is there a publicly documented process around what unit gets into assigned to which Era and Faction?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 03 August 2022, 13:00:22
there is not. in part because a not insubstantial amount of the material we use to make said decisions is also not public
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 03 August 2022, 13:37:45
Is there a publicly documented process around what unit gets into assigned to which Era and Faction?

Same as every other product created for BattleTech.
Somebody makes a proposal (from the MUL team), it goes through fact check (the rest of the MUL team), it's debated, and a consensus is achieved.  If the team can't achieve a consensus, it gets bumped to me, and if I can't get an answer, I can bump it up higher.
Once it gets posted/published, fans can question it here, where the feedback offered is considered by the team again, it's debated, and a consensus is achieved again.
I think in the last few years, I don't think it's had to get beyond the team achieving a consensus.  Sometimes the debate has dragged on so long it gets lost... But we haven't had a complete "X said yes, Y says no" and there's no way to get an agreement in the past several years.  We had a handful in the early years of the MUL. 

There are no rules beyond that though.  No "book X counts more than book Y".  Individuals might have such opinions, but it's not a rule of the team. Anybody can bring any evidence they wish. Each question is taken entirely on its own merits.  There's no "we said Z doesn't count as much as a source last time". 

The only rule is the team must reach a consensus.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 03 August 2022, 14:04:06
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5776/condor-heavy-hover-tank-fission

As i understand it, the Fission engines don't give EE specials in AS.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 05 August 2022, 14:59:34
The following 'Mechs with Record Sheets included in the free Force Pack Record Sheets: Wave 1 reference that publication as their TRO instead of their record sheet:
The Blackjack C and Archer C2 also reference BattleTech ForcePack Record Sheets: Wolf's Dragoons as their TRO source, despite not having any TRO.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 August 2022, 15:32:46
ah ha. those three were all in a row and my brain flipped for whatever reason on just those five.

goons mechs TRO set to None for now
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 05 August 2022, 15:42:43
Good stuff.

Hey, out of curiosity, is it possible at some point we could get a filter to only show the "featured" 'Mechs that usually make up a 'Mechs "default" configuration in a given era?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 August 2022, 15:43:55
can ask. no idea how feasable that is but you can currently sort by the column with the stars
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 August 2022, 17:32:03
ah ha. those three were all in a row and my brain flipped for whatever reason on just those five.

goons mechs TRO set to None for now
So... when will that list get long enough that there WILL be a TRO? ???
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 05 August 2022, 17:34:33
ask ray

Addendum: TRO for the source is a bit of a misnomer. It’s just the most recent place where the variant is directly mentioned and described (though TROs usually take precedence). For something like the Alfar, for example, that place is a sourcebook.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Daryk on 05 August 2022, 17:42:34
Fine... off to the "Ask the Developers" forum...  ::)
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: bronzite on 05 August 2022, 19:33:18
I was directed over here by GreekFire, from the post https://bg.battletech.com/forums/strategic-games/rakshasa-glitch/.

While recomputing a number of 'Mechs, I think I ran across a consistent error in the MUL.  The Alpha Strike Companion 1.5 Errata states that LRMs and MMLs with Artemis systems should not confer the Indirect Fire special ability (IF#), but it appears that most if not all 'Mechs with Artemis-equipped LRMs are getting credit for this ability.  The discovery case was the MDG-1A Rakshasa, but I found 175 'Mechs affected by issue, from perennial favorites like Timberwolf and Mad Dog B variants to obscure 'Mechs like the Attwater Ryoken, and from 'Mechs with almost no benefit, such as the IF0* ASN-23 Assasin all the way up to the ARC-5CS Archer at IF4.  All told, I believe 175 'Mechs are impacted by this errata.

I can provide a complete list of 'Mechs that should be stripped of their IF# special, but I wanted to ask here before I posted to see if I was misinterpreting the rule.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: nckestrel on 05 August 2022, 19:47:19
Artemis equipped units can't use the enhanced Artemis damage values for IF, but they can count for IF. 
From ASC errata
"⑤ Indirect Fire (IF#) (p. 125)
Under “Conversion”, third sentence
This ability receives a numerical rating equal to the Long range attack value for all these weapons combined, rounded normally
Change to:
This ability receives a numerical rating equal to the left-most (non-Artemis) Long range attack value for all these weapons
combined, rounded normally"

So an Artemis equipped LRM-15 counts the same as a non-Artemis LRM-15 for Indirect Fire.
Artemis equipped LRMs do not count for the LRM special ability.  But they do count for IF.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 August 2022, 14:08:55
I wonder about Foot Rifle Platoon (and RAF Ballistic Rifle Platoon) BV. Currently MUL and TRO3085 Supplemental give their BV as 81 at baseline.
My calculations, assuming 28-trooper Foot Platoon (1MP) with standard Auto-Rifles:
Code: [Select]
Defensive BV: 28x1.5=42, defensive factor of 1.0 so defensive BV total is 42.
Offensive BV:
Auto Rifle 28x1.59=44.52
Anti-'Mech capability: 44.52
Weapon BV total: 44.52+44.52=89.04
Speed factor 0.54, from 1 MP.
Offensive BV total: 0.54x89.04=48.0816‬

Final BV: 48.0816‬+42=90 (rounded normally to nearest whole number)
This assumes 4/5 skills, but since there's no AM training, that needs to be adjusted to 4/8
Which is 0.85 multiplier, equaling 76.5, rounded normally to 77BV

I do wonder though, am i making a mistake at speed factor calculation? Because assuming 0 MP (or more specifically, 0 TMM), speed factor becomes 0.44 and the final result gets rounded to 81.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1147/foot-platoon-rifle
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1141/foot-ballistic-rifle-hastati-v-513th-infantry-regiment
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2022, 14:13:18
Infantry BVs are currently under construction
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 August 2022, 14:18:07
Infantry BVs are currently under construction
Ooh, OK, that explains things. I assume something got adjusted in errata at some point.

I also assume it is safe to trust manual calculations based on TechManual currently?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2022, 14:20:31
As long as you do the math right, yeah  :))

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 08 August 2022, 14:29:17
As long as you do the math right, yeah  :))
Yeaah, i know this all too well, i managed to mess up that simple BV calculation few times before getting it right.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pokefan548 on 08 August 2022, 15:09:55
Looks like the weight for most if not all PA(L)s is wrong. If going per-suit, they should weigh .25 tons. A squad of 4 should weigh 1 ton, a point of 5 1.25 tons, and a Level II of 6 1.5 tons.
Some weigh .4 tons, which I suspect is based on the total capacity of a PA(L) (which itself is a very weird aspect of PA(L)s, being .25 tons but being able to carry up to .4 tons). That aside, any of the .5 tonners are just wrong.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2022, 15:53:19
all suits are considered one ton each for transport under TW rules so every squad will have CAR3 (elemenal Un) through CAR6 (WoB/CS Level I)

Official weight is 400kg per suit for the Nightshade and Tornado (see the weight breakdown in TRO 3075) so those need to be slightly adjusted. PA(L) runs from 80kg to 400kg per suit (TM p161). Light starts at 401kg

A few specific weights per suit
Nighthawk Mk XXI - 400
Nighthawk Mk XXII - 400
Tornado G12 - 390
Tornado G13 (SLas) - 400
Tornado G13 (Flamer) - 350
Tornado G13 (MGun/GrLncher/David LGR) - 300
Tornado G14 - 400

Aerie (standard) - 390

Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: jasonf on 08 August 2022, 16:45:33
Infantry BVs are currently under construction
Safe to assume C-Bill costs are under construction for them, too?
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 08 August 2022, 16:56:16
c-bills in general, yeah.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Scotty on 09 August 2022, 01:21:55
Just make up a number for your own c-bill costs, it will make more sense.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 August 2022, 01:27:42
that's hammer's department. i definitely don't think about it
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: pavelb on 09 August 2022, 02:22:14
Jihad Turning Points: Luthien provides record sheets for the Vincent Mk. 39, Baron, Carson, and Black Lion warships, however these units are listed on the MUL as not having a record sheet or BV or alpha strike statistics at all.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Empyrus on 09 August 2022, 14:18:05
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6837/hauptmann-ha1-ot
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7619/nightstar-nsr-9j-holt
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7309/highlander-hgn-732-jorgensson
These should have technology as Mixed.

The Hauptmann T has Clan UAC/20s, Holt has Clan LPL and Gauss rifles, Jorgensson has some Clan weapons.
Title: Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
Post by: Sartris on 09 August 2022, 16:10:24
Jihad Turning Points: Luthien provides record sheets for the Vincent Mk. 39, Baron, Carson, and Black Lion warships, however these units are listed on the MUL as not having a record sheet or BV or alpha strike statistics at all.

added BV and record sheet for the vincent, baron, and carson. the black lion (2691) lists its RS source as the BC exclusive version of JTP: Atreus and has a different BV there. will consult with the MUL Aerospace Mafia™

The AS values are out of whack and need revisiting.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6837/hauptmann-ha1-ot
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7619/nightstar-nsr-9j-holt
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7309/highlander-hgn-732-jorgensson
These should have technology as Mixed.

The Hauptmann T has Clan UAC/20s, Holt has Clan LPL and Gauss rifles, Jorgensson has some Clan weapons.

Fixed