Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST

[GreekFire]

Is the Bowman (Prototype) the same machine as the Bowman 4?

Yep. The (Prototype) has been culled.

Wulfen D should have a medium range damage of 1, not 0*

SRM2 with Artemis V has a damage value of 0.42
LB 2-X has a damage value of 0.105

this is more than 0.5 before any rounding, there is no heat-modification (10 doubles and a maximum of 19 heat) and finally should round up to 1.

Hmm. Due to rounding during the heat-modified damage step, it looks like SR damage needs to be boosted up to 1 as well.
Fixed!

[Starbuck]

Hmm. Due to rounding during the heat-modified damage step, it looks like SR damage needs to be boosted up to 1 as well.
Fixed!

what about the note about "before rounding" (from converting heat errata v1.2)?

Minimal Damage: As noted under the general
conversion rules for weapons (see p. 99), any weapon
bracket that delivers more than 0 points of damage, but less
than 0.5 damage (before rounding), receives a Minimal
Damage value (0*) at that range bracket.

[GreekFire]

what about the note about "before rounding" (from converting heat errata v1.2)?

Minimal Damage: As noted under the general
conversion rules for weapons (see p. 99), any weapon
bracket that delivers more than 0 points of damage, but less
than 0.5 damage (before rounding), receives a Minimal
Damage value (0*) at that range bracket.

This passage is only meant to refer to the rounding that occurs during the final damage step, and not the rounding of the heat-modified damage step.

[Daryk]

After discussion, we have chosen not to include this Hunter on the MUL at this point in time. This was decided on for a few reasons:
1) The TCI kits are considered apocryphal at this point in time, and are not fully canon.
2) This version of the Hunter was never reprinted in another product, while the others you listed do have canon--if at times dated--record sheets.
3) The Hunter's specs, as listed in the TCI kit, are illegal and cannot be exactly replicated under the current ruleset.

+1 for consistency, and +1 more for explaining your reasoning! 

[Valkerie]

Howdy guys.  Just stumbled on an oddity.  AS card for the Griffin IIC (Standard) has the special ability of OVL, but it has an OV value of 0.

[GreekFire]

Howdy guys.  Just stumbled on an oddity.  AS card for the Griffin IIC (Standard) has the special ability of OVL, but it has an OV value of 0.

Fixed! Thank you.

[ELH_Firemane]

Hi,

The Malice MAL-YZ is currently listed at 2949 BV - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6727/malice-mal-yz
The sheet on p 395 of 3145 Unabridged also has 2949.

Both Mordel.net and MechFactory come up with 2982 BV.  I will add Mordel's calcs below in case you want to double check this one.  It is a complicated mixed-tech design with armored components and modular armor.

Code: [Select]

                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Malice MAL-YZ
Technology:         Clan (Mixed)
Tonnage:            100
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Ferro-Lamellor):                        371 x 2.5 x 1.2           1,113.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ XXL Engine): 152 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5  (+)    114.000  = 1,227.000
  Gyro (Compact):                                100 x 0.5            (+)     50.000  = 1,277.000
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                (+)    100.000  = 1,377.000
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                      (+)     45.000  = 1,422.000
       Laser Anti-Missile System                                      (+)     45.000  = 1,467.000
  Armored Components:                                                                           
       Compact Gyro (IS)                                              (+)      5.000  = 1,472.000
       Hip                                                            (+)      5.000  = 1,477.000
       Hip                                                            (+)      5.000  = 1,482.000
       XXL Engine                                                     (+)     70.000  = 1,552.000
  Explosive Equipment:                           2 Critical Spaces    (-)      2.000  = 1,550.000
  Defensive Movement Factor:                     +2                   (*)       1.20  = 1,860.000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,860.000

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 24 (Heat Sinks) + 5 (Coolant Pods) - 6 (Movement w/ XXL) - 44 (Weapons) = -15
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Large Pulse Laser                                                     265.000             
       Large Pulse Laser                                              (+)    265.000  =   530.000
       ER Large Laser                                                 (+)    248.000  =   778.000
       ER Large Laser                            [Inefficient]        (+)    124.000  =   902.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)    100.000  = 1,002.000
  Speed Factor:                                  6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)   (*)      1.120  = 1,122.240
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,122.240

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                 1,860.000             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,122.240  = 2,982.240
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,982

[ELH_Firemane]

Hi,

The Warhammer WHM-X7 "The Lich" is listed as 1807 BV on Page 8 of XTRO Gunslingers and on MUL- http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3499/warhammer-whm-x7-the-lich

It's a minor difference but Mordel.net and MechFactory are coming up with 1803 BV.  I will add the calcs from Mordel in case you want to review this one:

Code: [Select]

                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Warhammer WHM-X7 "The Lich"
Technology:         Inner Sphere (Mixed)
Tonnage:            70
Configuration:      Biped FrankenMech

===========================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Light Ferro-Fibrous):                            212 x 2.5 x 1                530.000             
  Internal Structure (Endo Steel w/ Light Fusion Engine): 107 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    120.375  =   650.375
  Gyro (Heavy-Duty):                                      70 x 1                (+)     70.000  =   720.375
  Armored Components:                                                                                     
       Cockpit                                                                  (+)      5.000  =   725.375
       Light Fusion Engine                                                      (+)     50.000  =   775.375
       Sensors                                                                  (+)     10.000  =   785.375
  Explosive Equipment:                                    3 Critical Spaces     (-)      3.000  =   782.375
  Defensive Movement Factor:                              +2                    (*)       1.20  =   938.850
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                                      938.850

===========================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                                     
        6 (Base) + 26 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 52 (Weapons) = -22                                     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                                     
       Snub-Nose PPC w/ Capacitor                                                      252.000             
       Snub-Nose PPC w/ Capacitor                                               (+)    252.000  =   504.000
       Streak SRM 6 (C)                                   [Inefficient]         (+)     59.000  =   563.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   594.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   625.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   656.000
       ER Medium Laser                                    [Inefficient]         (+)     31.000  =   687.000
       Streak SRM 6 (Ammo 15) (C)                                               (+)     15.000  =   702.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                          (+)     70.000  =   772.000
  Speed Factor:                                           6 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.120  =   864.640
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                                      864.640

===========================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                             938.850             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                                      (+)    864.640  = 1,803.490
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                                        1,803
I think the equipment in the above calcs is correct but I apologize if I missed something.

[Cache]

Goliath 3S BV changed to 1792 with newly errata'd record sheet.

[ELH_Firemane]

The Gestalt G2X-G is listed as 2392 BV - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4209/gestalt-d2x-g
The from Jihad Final Reckoning p. 163 shows 2542 .

Both Mordel.net and MechFactory calculate 2329 BV for this one.  The equipment used in their calcs does match the equipment on the sheet, and the TRO section on pp. 149-150.   I will add Mordel's calcs below if you wish to double-check this one:

Code: [Select]

                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Gestalt D2X-G
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            45
Configuration:      Biped BattleMech

=================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous):                148 x 2.5 x 1                  370.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 75 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.5      (+)     56.250  =   426.250
  Gyro (None):                                45 x 0.5                (+)     22.500  =   448.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Angel ECM Suite                                                (+)    100.000  =   548.750
  Explosive Equipment:                        5 Critical Spaces       (-)      5.000  =   543.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +4 (w/ Void-Signature)  (*)       1.40  =   761.250
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                            761.250

=================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                           
        6 (Base) + 20 (Heat Sinks) - 6 (Movement) - 10 (Void-Signature) - 30 (Weapons) = -20     
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                           
       Heavy PPC w/ Capacitor                                                370.000             
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]           (+)     31.000  =   401.000
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]           (+)     31.000  =   432.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                (+)     45.000  =   477.000
  Speed Factor:                               11 (Run) + 3 (Jump)     (*)      2.160  = 1,030.320
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                          1,030.320

=================================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                   761.250             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                            (+)  1,030.320  = 1,791.570
  Cockpit (Interface):                                                (*)       1.30  = 2,329.041
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                              2,329

[Cache]

The Centipede Scout Car (Wheeled Fusion) and Centipede Scout Car (Wheeled ICE) are listed as variants of the Centipede (Hover). TRO3025 (p. 176) has the wheeled Centipede as a variant of the Swift Wind, while TRO:3058 (p. 12) and TRO:3058U (p. 56) mention the hover is Skulker-based.

[Sartris]

They are not variants - the swift wind is listed as an example of a variety of scout cars that exist. The darter is also in that entry

[Daryk]

So... they shouldn't be listed as variants of the Hover either, right? 

[Sartris]

They’re alternate motive. See coolant trucks, the condor upgrade, etc for other examples. It’s an organizational tool to keep things listed together so people don’t have to hunt.

They’re mostly irrelevant footnotes at the moment since they lack RS anyways. Should they ever be actually published, we’ll revisit their status

[Daryk]

Rog, but given the 3025 Steiner Centipede Scout Car existed long before the hover Centipede, I don't think they should be linked at all.  It's just a name re-use.

[Sartris]

Until the TRO entry is written for the non hover centipedes and definitely relates the history over a near-forty year old one-off reference we’ll keep it as is 

[Daryk]

That would certainly clear it up.  Thanks! 

[ELH_Firemane]

Hi, the Jabberwocky JAW-66B EngineerMech is listed as 322 BV :
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1650/jabberwocky-jaw-66b-engineermech
The record sheet in p. 128 of Record Sheets 3075 AoW also has 322 for the BV.

I've found that Mordel.net and MechFactory  both calculate 350 for the battle value and it appears as if both sources are using the correct equipment (and the record sheet & TRO section also have the same equipment).  I will include Mordel's calculations here if you would like to double check this one:

Code: [Select]

                 Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Jabberwocky JAW-66B EngineerMech
Technology:         Inner Sphere
Tonnage:            50
Configuration:      Biped IndustrialMech

===================================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Heavy Industrial):                         56 x 2.5 x 1               140.000             
  Internal Structure (Industrial w/ Fusion Engine): 83 x 1.5 x 0.5 x 1  (+)     62.250  =   202.250
  Gyro (Standard):                                  50 x 0.5            (+)     25.000  =   227.250
  Defensive Movement Factor:                        +2                  (*)       1.20  =   272.700
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                              272.700

===================================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is efficient                                                               
        6 (Base) + 10 (Heat Sinks) - 3 (Movement) - 2 (Weapons) = 11                               
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                             
       Spot Welder                                                               5.000             
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                                  (+)     57.500  =    62.500
  Speed Factor:                                     6 (Run) + 2 (Jump)  (*)      1.370  =    85.625
  Basic Fire Control System:                                            (*)      0.900  =    77.063
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                               77.063

===================================================================================================
IndustrialMech Battle Value
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                                     272.700             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                              (+)     77.063  =   349.763
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final IndustrialMech Battle Value:                                                              350


[strategoslevel3]

Hi, why was my post deleted? I just calculated the correct BV for all total Warfare infantry. I thought that would be useful?

[nckestrel]

Hi, why was my post deleted? I just calculated the correct BV for all total Warfare infantry. I thought that would be useful?

Hi, I do owe you an explanation, and planned on doing so.  I'm just behind on my list of things to do.
As a general note for everyone, I'm aware we have BV updates that need to be made.  I've asked the team to concentrate on the process we are developing for keeping all BVs updated, rather than dealing with single requests at a time. You can still post them, but we may not get to individual BV changes as we are working on that process for all of them.

As for why your post was deleted, I do not want posts promoting people's own works in the MUL thread. While your BV calculations were part of it, if you wanted to post just those here, you can do so. But do not link to outside projects, thanks.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Now that the Blackjack C and Archer C2 have record sheets, will they be given factional availability?
I know it’s right after they have been posted, but posterity and all

[worktroll]

After discussion, we have chosen not to include this Hunter on the MUL at this point in time. This was decided on for a few reasons:
1) The TCI kits are considered apocryphal at this point in time, and are not fully canon.
2) This version of the Hunter was never reprinted in another product, while the others you listed do have canon--if at times dated--record sheets.
3) The Hunter's specs, as listed in the TCI kit, are illegal and cannot be exactly replicated under the current ruleset.

Thanks for taking the time. I understand, but it's a shame - there need (IMHO) to be more early-period wheeled combat vehicles available to most/all factions, if only to spice up selection.

[DoctorTeeth]

Hell's Horses doesn't have access to the Fire Falcon in the Dark Ages in the MUL, but should according to pp. 218 of Field Manual: 3145.

[Sartris]

Now that the Blackjack C and Archer C2 have record sheets, will they be given factional availability?
I know it’s right after they have been posted, but posterity and all

we had considered it, yes

[Spartan601]

Hi all,

The Bakeneko BKN-1K is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere on Master Unit List.

In BattleTech Historical: Wars of the Republic Era, it is recoreded as Mixed Tech. It features clan equipment and weaponry.

Cheers,

Spartan

[ELH_Firemane]

Hi,
The Savage Coyote Z is listed on MU:L as BV 3080 - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5831/savage-coyote-z
The record sheet is in War of Reaving Supp'l p. 84

Mordel.net and MechFactory are calculating 3026 BV for this one.  From what I can see, their calculations are using the correct equipment.  I will append Mordel's excellent calcs below in case you want to double-check this one:

Code: [Select]

            Battle Value Breakdown

Name/Model:         Savage Coyote Z
Technology:         Clan
Tonnage:            85
Configuration:      Biped OmniMech

===============================================================================================
Defensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Armor (Standard):                           240 x 2.5 x 1                600.000             
  Internal Structure (Standard w/ XL Engine): 130 x 1.5 x 1 x 0.75  (+)    146.250  =   746.250
  Gyro (Standard):                            85 x 0.5              (+)     42.500  =   788.750
  Defensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Nova CEWS                                                    (+)     68.000  =   856.750
  Defensive Movement Factor:                  +2                    (*)       1.20  = 1,028.100
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Defensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,028.100

===============================================================================================
Offensive Battle Rating
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heat Efficiency: Unit is inefficient                                                         
        6 (Base) + 32 (Heat Sinks) - 2 (Movement) - 45 (Weapons) = -9                         
  Offensive Equipment:                                                                         
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30                                              401.000             
       Improved ATM 12                                              (+)    333.000  =   734.000
       Improved ATM 12                                              (+)    333.000  = 1,067.000
       ER Large Pulse Laser                                         (+)    272.000  = 1,339.000
       ER Medium Laser                                              (+)    108.000  = 1,447.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,525.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,603.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,681.000
       Improved ATM 12 (Ammo 5)                                     (+)     78.000  = 1,759.000
       ER Medium Laser                        [Inefficient]         (+)     54.000  = 1,813.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30 (Ammo 4)                              (+)     50.000  = 1,863.000
       Hyper-Assault Gauss 30 (Ammo 4)                              (+)     50.000  = 1,913.000
  Total 'Mech Tonnage:                                              (+)     85.000  = 1,998.000
  Speed Factor:                               5 (Run) + 0 (Jump)    (*)      1.000  = 1,998.000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final Offensive Battle Rating:                                                        1,998.000

===============================================================================================
BattleMech Battle Value
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Defensive Battle Rating:                                               1,028.100             
  Offensive Battle Rating:                                          (+)  1,998.000  = 3,026.100
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Final BattleMech Battle Value:                                                            3,026

I see on another post that you folks are doing some internal review on the BV so let me know if these posts aren't helpful.

[GreekFire]

The Bakeneko BKN-1K is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere on Master Unit List.

Thank you, fixed!

I see on another post that you folks are doing some internal review on the BV so let me know if these posts aren't helpful.

We appreciate your diligence in helping to turn the MUL into the best resource possible, so we certainly will never say that your posts aren't helpful. That said, we are currently performing a larger-scale update, so will likely keep individual updates on standby until it fully goes through.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

There is something wonky with the Jade Phoenix E damage Values. It shouldn’t have a long range value for one.

I don’t know the conversion fixes for it, but something is up

[GreekFire]

There is something wonky with the Jade Phoenix E damage Values. It shouldn’t have a long range value for one.

I don’t know the conversion fixes for it, but something is up

Thanks, fixed!

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Carrion Crow D has too much structure. It looks like it didn’t get an XL engine reduction in structure.