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Author Topic: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST  (Read 71080 times)

Daryk

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #930 on: 01 July 2022, 03:24:44 »
Thanks for sorting that out Sartris!  :thumbsup:

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #931 on: 01 July 2022, 08:54:13 »
MapCapellan figured out that pile of spaghetti

Hellfire

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #932 on: 01 July 2022, 17:56:38 »
I have asked The Expert on this. The 'Ares' designation and type (landing craft vs close assault landing craft vs attack craft, etc) are all part of the same series

The Ares Marks are:
Mk. I - Ares Landing Craft
Mk. II - Ares Close Assault Landing Craft
Mk. III - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. IV - Landing Craft
Mk. V - Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VI - Ares Assault Craft
Mk. VII - Ares Assault Craft, Close Assault Landing Craft, Landing Craft
Mk. VII-C - Landing Craft
Mk. IX - Ares Attack Craft
There is a MUL entry for the MK VII Ares Assault Craft from TRO:3085. Does that mean the MUL reflects a name change from TRO: 3085's Attack to Assault that hasn't shown up in errata for TRO: 3085 yet? It makes sense to change TRO: 3085 to match the later products naming scheme for the earlier in universe Ares.

TRO: 3085 pg 120
"the long-range landing craft (LRLC)—best known for its most-produced version, the MK VII—has long been the most recognizable of the three, with the close attack landing craft (CALC) and the combat-orient-ed Ares attack craft (AAC) often mistaken for their more common cousin."
« Last Edit: 01 July 2022, 18:11:27 by Hellfire »

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #933 on: 01 July 2022, 18:41:43 »
While i am sure you all know, i figure id mention it, the newest ilClan factions (from Tamar Rising) do not have little blurbs about them
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #934 on: 01 July 2022, 19:28:49 »
There is a MUL entry for the MK VII Ares Assault Craft from TRO:3085. Does that mean the MUL reflects a name change from TRO: 3085's Attack to Assault that hasn't shown up in errata for TRO: 3085 yet? It makes sense to change TRO: 3085 to match the later products naming scheme for the earlier in universe Ares.

TRO: 3085 pg 120
"the long-range landing craft (LRLC)—best known for its most-produced version, the MK VII—has long been the most recognizable of the three, with the close attack landing craft (CALC) and the combat-orient-ed Ares attack craft (AAC) often mistaken for their more common cousin."

Yes

While i am sure you all know, i figure id mention it, the newest ilClan factions (from Tamar Rising) do not have little blurbs about them

On the list that I keep in my head and often forget about

Daryk

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #935 on: 01 July 2022, 21:25:59 »
MapCapellan figured out that pile of spaghetti
Well, then +1 to him for figuring out, and still +1 to you for posting it here!  :thumbsup:

Karasu

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #936 on: 05 July 2022, 04:28:32 »
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.

Empyrus

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #937 on: 05 July 2022, 05:40:08 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/811/daishi-dire-wolf-widowmaker

Noticed that Widowmaker config is not listed as unique but is instead treated as a common configuration. Is this intended?
If not, i assume correct availabilities would be Clan Wolf/Unique for Clan Invasion era and extinct afterwards.
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Adacas

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #938 on: 05 July 2022, 06:13:08 »
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.
4H is still available in the IlClan Era for the Marian Hegemony and Pirates

jasonf

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #939 on: 05 July 2022, 10:54:55 »
One more minor errata on the Wight 2C -- it's missing Taurian availability in the Late Rep era (has it both before and after).

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #940 on: 05 July 2022, 10:59:10 »
they were hiding them fixed

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #941 on: 05 July 2022, 11:03:46 »
I'm not entirely sure about the following, but I have enough of a theory that I feel it is worth posting.

Four Swayback versions of the HBK have a similar distribution history, but one has an unusual access by the Marian Hegemony in the ilClan era.  The 4H, 4J, 4N and 4SP are all variants of the Hunchback that were first made during the 1st - 3rd Succession Wars becoming immediately available to all IS and Periphery factions.  During the Early Republic era, the IS availability is somewhat reduced, then goes entirely whereas the Periphery availability is maintained for a bit longer but all are extinct during the ilClan era.

Except that the 4H is still available to the Marian Hegemony.  Most of the time an alphanumeric code for a variant that ends in an 'H' indicates that the variant was first created by the Hegemony.  But in this case, the variant came into existence before the state did, making that purely coincidental.  I suspect that this availability is actually a mistake based on this coincidence and that the HBK-4H should be extinct in the ilClan era like the other three.

i want to say this was intentional. i'll have to dig up my notes

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #942 on: 05 July 2022, 11:24:41 »
confirmed intentional. it had nothing to do with the hegemony. luck of the draw that it's still around an others are gone

Karasu

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #943 on: 06 July 2022, 05:21:09 »
confirmed intentional. it had nothing to do with the hegemony. luck of the draw that it's still around an others are gone

Thanks for taking the time to look.  It was one of those things that looked fine on the surface but then a bit odd in the detail.  But there are enough 'Mechs and variants out there for some coincidences to happen.

Empyrus

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #944 on: 06 July 2022, 14:48:27 »
I wonder about the Sunder introduction date.
MUL has it as 3056, but TRO3058U text (page 154) indicates deployment began in late 3054. But it seems the Avatar is implicitly the fourth Inner Sphere OmniMech introduced, after Raptor, Owens and Blackhawk-KU, and of these the Owens is explicitly first deployed in 3056.
Should MUL date be moved up a couple of years and Owens date be reported as errata, or should the Sunder be reported as errata for TRO3058U ("change 3054 to '56")?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3123/sunder-sd1-o
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nckestrel

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #945 on: 06 July 2022, 15:22:40 »
My copy of TR3058U (corrected second printing, first printed by CGL) already has it errated to 3056.  "prevented widespread Sunder deployment until late in 3056."
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #946 on: 06 July 2022, 15:30:08 »
Ah, okay, it wasn't in the errata thread so it is probably quite old errata. So nevermind that.

Minor thing: Marksman MBT M1 is marked as the featured variant (the star thing) rather than M1A which is the actual featured variant in TRO3085 Supplemental.
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nckestrel

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #947 on: 06 July 2022, 15:36:03 »
Yeah, I remembered putting that errata request in, so I was looking for it.  Then realized it's not in errata thread because the first printing was pre-CGL.  it was errata to the FanPro version. Errata only gets posted for the CGL printings..

Marksman corrected, thanks.
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pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #948 on: 11 July 2022, 07:15:27 »
I understand that, post-3085, the Homeworld Clans don't really have much of anything to say that we know of, but The Wars of Reaving and its Supplemental do give us, circa 3090, a very clear picture of designs that were adopted and abandoned, as well as more than a few that can be verified as being retained. With that, I'd think there's easily enough information to put together sufficiently reliable availabilities for Early Republic reflecting the decades immediately after the conclusion of the Reavings (with the understanding, of course, that some availabilities may change when and if the Homeworlders re-enter the picture). Sure, I don't see all that many jumping at the bit to play 3085 or other post-Reaving Homeworlds stuff, but given the amount of hard evidence we have as-is, it seems a shame not to better facilitate it.

Sorting out ilClan takes priority, of course, no denying that.

Of course, I doubt I'm the first person to float this idea, and I doubt I'll be the last to have it shot down. If you don't mind my asking, if the answer is "no," could I at least get a little peek behind the scenes as to why?
« Last Edit: 11 July 2022, 08:48:06 by pokefan548 »
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nckestrel

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #949 on: 11 July 2022, 07:31:06 »
Someday CGL will (presumably) want to tell that story, and it's not going to be through the MUL posting it.  We follow, not lead.  When BattleTech picks up the Homeworld Clans again and advances their story, then the MUL will follow that story.
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pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #950 on: 11 July 2022, 08:49:31 »
Respectfully, they have told the story up through the first half of Early Republic, that's my point.

But I get it, they're in a weird place. Much as I'd like an application of the hard evidence we've gotten, I understand not really wanting to poke that until they're relevant and, for lack of a better word, "supported" again.
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Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #951 on: 15 July 2022, 23:50:34 »
MUL is down
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #952 on: 15 July 2022, 23:52:19 »
there has been some database instability over the past couple days. we are aware of the issue.

Daryk

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #953 on: 16 July 2022, 06:25:02 »
Any ETR? ???

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #954 on: 16 July 2022, 10:15:22 »
No. The admin has yet to ascertain what’s going on.

Daryk

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #955 on: 16 July 2022, 10:30:54 »
Rog, thanks for letting us know... best of luck getting it fixed!

Alvar

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #956 on: 20 July 2022, 10:16:10 »
The faction availability of the Ostroc OSR-2C is incorrect in the Star League Era.

Star League General and Terran Hegemony are both listed there, but since Terran Hegemony also uses the Star League General list, this should please be checked.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2348/ostroc-osr-2c

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #957 on: 20 July 2022, 11:13:14 »
true story. fixed, thanks

one of those artifacts left behind in the cleanup after implementing SL General

Alvar

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #958 on: 20 July 2022, 11:22:42 »
true story. fixed, thanks

one of those artifacts left behind in the cleanup after implementing SL General

 :thumbsup:

Karasu

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #959 on: 21 July 2022, 03:46:29 »
Oddly, I was also looking at Ostrocs and noticed that the OSR-5C is introduced in 3082 but is available to the Fronc Reaches during the Jihad era from 3068-3080.  I'm guessing that the availability should only start in the next era - Early Republic.