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Author Topic: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST  (Read 78431 times)

pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1020 on: 11 August 2022, 11:41:48 »
Any particular reason the Septicemia A is a Scout but the A-Z is a Brawler? None of the other "-Z" upgrades have mismatched roles, at a cursory glance.
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pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1021 on: 11 August 2022, 14:55:52 »
Sorry for the double-post, but as well, shouldn't Clan Burrock circa Jihad have access to both Sqd3 and Sqd5 versions of their Battle Armors, considering that some galaxies of the revived Burrocks used the Prime system while others used the traditional Clan org?
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pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1022 on: 15 August 2022, 11:39:18 »
Djinn Battle Armor (Stealth) appears to lack the STL special on its Alpha Strike card, despite mounting stealth armor.
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Empyrus

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1023 on: 15 August 2022, 12:01:02 »
Djinn Battle Armor (Stealth) appears to lack the STL special on its Alpha Strike card, despite mounting stealth armor.
It actually has advanced armor and camo module rather than stealth armor. EDIT Camo module gives LMAS ability.
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1024 on: 15 August 2022, 12:09:30 »
Indeed

Quote from: AS Companion p127
Battle armor equipped with a camouflage (Camo) system in their weapons and equipment inventories, or conventional infantry outfitted with dermal camouflage (see Augmented
Warriors, pp. 26-28), receive the LMAS special

pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1025 on: 15 August 2022, 13:07:49 »
Right. Point being, it lacks the STL ability, which I would, perhaps erroneously, assume Advanced Stealth Armor would convey.

Would be able to verify for myself, but 3 years later and we still do not have the updated conversion rules download cited in AS:CE, and I currently don't have ASC.
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1026 on: 15 August 2022, 13:30:05 »
It doesn't have Advanced Stealth Armor, it has BA Advanced, which is simply more weight-efficient. It has the (Stealth) variant designation because of the camo kit

pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1027 on: 15 August 2022, 13:32:39 »
Ah, you're right. I was getting my wires crossed, apologies.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1029 on: 15 August 2022, 16:21:05 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6375/scimitar-mk-ii-hcv-standard
Seems to be erroneously available during Early Republic even though its intro is 3105.

Same with the Kite and Gun Trailer (SC)

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6541/kite-reconnaissance-vehicle-standard
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6534/gun-trailer-sc

the fact that they all had ER availability makes me think they had their date changed at some point but the other data wasn't changed. they're cleaned up now, thanks

jasonf

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1030 on: 16 August 2022, 08:24:35 »
Ok, so my Dark Age deep dive has moved on to battle armor and ProtoMechs...

1. This one is minor, but some "apocryphal" BA squad sizes (i.e., the ones that don't exist in canon but have entries) have no availability listings, while others have availability listings that all = "Extinct." See Tornado vs. Infiltrator example below. I kind of prefer the no-availability option as it requires a lot less clicking to see if a squad size ever existed in canon. but I admit it's a low-priority issue, too. Just wanted to point it out, just in case it wasn't to you guys.
Infiltrator I (no availability)
Tornado 12 'Hurricane' (all extinct)

2. There are also a couple entries missing their "apocryphal" squad sizes, one with a RS, one I'm pretty sure without:
Cavalier BA [MG] -- missing Sqd6
Kanazuchi BA (armored glove) -- missing Sqd5 and Sqd6 (but has no record sheet?)
Kanazuchi BA (upgrade) (armored glove) -- missing Sqd5 and Sqd6 (but has no record sheet?)

3. Raiden BA (original) (Sqd4) -- is extinct for all eras, but I think it should have the Kurita + Unique tags in the Clan Invasion era (it's the original prototype version from the TRO3058 fluff).

4. Admittedly, this is some serious OCD, but to keep everything listed in a consistent alpha-numeric order on the MUL, there should probably be a space in "AP Gauss" in Elemental Battle Armor [APGauss] (Sqd3)

5. Sylph BA (Enhanced) (all squad sizes) -- I think the weight is supposed to be 0.8t (according to TRO-Proto)

6. Kobold IIC (all squad sizes) -- Should the technology be Clan (standard)?

7. Fenrir II BA [LRM] (all squad sizes) -- should technology rules = "Advanced"? The other two mixed tech modules ([AI] and [SRM]) are Advanced; but the errata may instead be that the other two should = "Standard" since I think mixed tech is standard at its intro date and I didn't see any other components that would make it Advanced.

Availability Questions:
8. Should the Marians have access to the Trinity BA (Asterion) [MRR] and [PPC] in the Dark Age and ilClan eras? They have it through the Late-Rep and wanted to make sure it was intended to go extinct.

9. Should the Hell's Horses have Dark Age/ilClan access to the following BA suits that were presumably built on Wolf worlds they took in the 3130s?
Undine (Upgrade) -- presumably still built on Weingarten and on their Tamar Rising RAT (I know we normally don't give RATs much weight, but it is the newest RAT out there)
Black Wolf BA (all Sqd5 modules) -- still built on Weingarten according to TRO3145 (written at time of HH control IU)
Warg BA (standard and possibly reactive variant, too) -- presumably still built on Tamar and on their Tamar Rising RAT (and also on the Jade Falcon's RAT there)

10. Should the Constable Pacification Suit (all modules, Sqd 5) have availability to All IS Clans? TR3150 fluff seems to suggest in multiple places that it was exported widely to the other Clans.

11. Should the Xiphos BA (A, B, C Sqd 5) be available to the Wolf Empire in the Dark Age/ilClan? It was produced on Washburn (TRO3150), which the Wolves controlled at the IU-time.

Finally...
12.  Should the Svartalfa 2 (LRM variant) ProtoMech have a MUL entry? I wasn't sure if it had a record sheet, but it had was in MegaMek Lab and is listed as a variant in the TRO-Proto fluff (and is also in the Tamar Rising RATs...but so is the Svartalfa 3, which definitely doesn't have a RS).

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1031 on: 16 August 2022, 08:53:19 »
The rest require some investigation but I can speak to 1)

No availability means that squad size isn’t in use by any active faction. They have data entered - a dummy faction that indicates such - but it’s invisible at the moment. There has been no discussion about making it visible

jasonf

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1032 on: 16 August 2022, 09:47:13 »
No availability means that squad size isn’t in use by any active faction. They have data entered - a dummy faction that indicates such - but it’s invisible at the moment. There has been no discussion about making it visible

Ah ok. In that case, my point with #1 would be it looks like there are a bunch of Squad sizes that should be invisible but instead are visible with some eras = extinct (with the Tornado BA being an example).


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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1033 on: 16 August 2022, 11:11:11 »
If it is past the intro date, lacks availability, and not labeled as extinct in a given era, someone is using it in another squad size

pokefan548

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1034 on: 16 August 2022, 11:18:21 »
Yeah. The only squad size that "disappears" to my knowledge is Sqd3 (Society). To put it another way, those squad sizes will only disappear once the organizational structure that uses them goes extinct. For example, until all factions that field 6-suit units go extinct, every BA that exists at the same time as those factions will have a Sqd6 version, as I understand.

Sqd3 is technically a bit of an exception since even during the Jihad/WoR it only exists for a few suits, but then the Society is one massive outlier for the intents and purposes of the MUL.

On that note, should we not have Sqd1 variants for the Machina Domini interface suits and the Bounty Hunter's Nighthawk Mk. XXX?
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Lanceman

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1035 on: 16 August 2022, 13:29:15 »
Can we get a Sub Types category for OmniVehicles to go along with OmniMechs and OmniFighters?
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1036 on: 16 August 2022, 16:07:00 »
it would actually be several categories as the subtype for vehicles is usually the movement mode. we'll have to discuss whether this is worth doing.

meanwhile, putting Omni in the AS abilities while searching will achieve the same effect.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1037 on: 16 August 2022, 16:14:48 »
Yeah. The only squad size that "disappears" to my knowledge is Sqd3 (Society). To put it another way, those squad sizes will only disappear once the organizational structure that uses them goes extinct. For example, until all factions that field 6-suit units go extinct, every BA that exists at the same time as those factions will have a Sqd6 version, as I understand.

sort of. a record for an unused squad size by itself will never be declared extinct. extinction only is added when the suit itself is totally gone and will be added to all squad sizes - separate records the Sqd# designation is a conceit of the platform's limitations. behind the scenes, Sqd3 and Sqd6 have an "Other Squad Size in Use" dummy faction for a given era, even in the ilClan Era where no one uses them in that capacity.

Quote
On that note, should we not have Sqd1 variants for the Machina Domini interface suits and the Bounty Hunter's Nighthawk Mk. XXX?

will inquire.

Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1038 on: 16 August 2022, 23:04:06 »
things

1. see above
2. Cavalier [MG] now has an Sqd6 and will no longer feel left out. generally speaking, suits without a record sheet/BV did not get other squad size entries. they will be added if the sheet is ever released
3. Inquired about this one a while ago. IIRC the rationale was that it wasn't around long enough to even get a Unique tag. it barely existed
4. space added to match others. huzzah for consistency.
5. slimfasted
6. yes
7. also yes

availability questions will have to be discussed

thanks again

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1039 on: 17 August 2022, 01:08:55 »
The BLR-1Gb BattleMaster is listed as having a Capellan Confederation availability in the Star League Era.  As a Royal mech, shouldn't it have been exclusive to the Star League Royals at that time?
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1040 on: 17 August 2022, 01:10:05 »
some of the royals have surprising availability

Empyrus

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1041 on: 17 August 2022, 06:18:32 »
The BLR-1Gb BattleMaster is listed as having a Capellan Confederation availability in the Star League Era.  As a Royal mech, shouldn't it have been exclusive to the Star League Royals at that time?
Remember the Battlemaster is produced by the Hollis industries in the Capellan Confederation. Presumably they would produce the Royal Beemer for the SLDF, and in return the CapCon would receive part of the production runs.
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CJKeys

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1042 on: 17 August 2022, 09:44:10 »
the JR7-31 Rattlesnake lists it's damage values as 4/4/2, checking all the math it should be 4/4/0. the points cost, and everything else look correct.

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9238/rattlesnake-jr7-31
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1043 on: 17 August 2022, 11:21:57 »
not sure where that 2 came from. weird. fixed

jasonf

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1044 on: 17 August 2022, 11:22:49 »
...snip...

thanks again
Thanks for the update, and thanks to the MUL team for helping feed my unhealthy BattleTech research addiction!  :thumbsup:


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BV of Poseidon
« Reply #1045 on: 17 August 2022, 14:07:28 »
I hope this is the right place to post this question,

I am confused as to what the BV for the Poseidon PSD-V2 is or if it is calculated any differently for Superheavy mechs. Everywhere I look the BV for it is a completely different value. My understanding is that base BV2 is calculated on a base of a 4/5 pilot.

The BV for Poseidon I have seen listed as:

Rec. Guide 3145: 3,760
MUL: 3,677 (at 4/5 piloting)
MegaMek: 3,357
MechFactory: 3,186
Sarna: 3,760 (same as rec guide)

I know most of these sources are not official, but even the two official ones (Rec Guide: 3145 and MUL) seem to differ.

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1046 on: 17 August 2022, 16:27:51 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3750/atlas-c
http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/444/battle-of-tukayyid

The Atlas C is for some reason noted to be in BoT even though it doesn't have TRO-style entry nor RS there (BoT Supplemental has its RS). Figure both the source and RS should be RG24.
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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1047 on: 21 August 2022, 21:34:03 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1854/lancelot-lnc25-01x
Featured TRO should be TRO3039. TRSW Lancelot entry is from TRO3050U and that doesn't actually mention this prototype X model but TOR3039 does. Record Sheet source is correct though.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s
Has wrong art, HBK-7S has its own art in XTRRepublicII.
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Sartris

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1048 on: 22 August 2022, 01:03:42 »
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3750/atlas-c
http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/444/battle-of-tukayyid

The Atlas C is for some reason noted to be in BoT even though it doesn't have TRO-style entry nor RS there (BoT Supplemental has its RS). Figure both the source and RS should be RG24.

this was set well before RG24 existed. that's probably the best source now.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1854/lancelot-lnc25-01x
Featured TRO should be TRO3039. TRSW Lancelot entry is from TRO3050U and that doesn't actually mention this prototype X model but TOR3039 does. Record Sheet source is correct though.

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7346/hunchback-hbk-7s
Has wrong art, HBK-7S has its own art in XTRRepublicII.

fixed

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Re: Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST
« Reply #1049 on: 22 August 2022, 17:18:45 »
Question: availability of the Bellona hovertank in Dark Age (at least.)

I realise MechWarrior game piece are not necessarily considered canon fact, but using Warrenborn (a reliable source of DA unit information), the Bellona is available as a generic piece to the following factions:

Pure mercenary: Bannson's Raiders
House semi-factions: Spirit Cats, Dragon's Fury
House militaries: House Liao, House Steiner, House Davion

The Highlanders also have access to a unique pilot version, but put that aside for the moment.

Given the wide factional and geographical spread in the MW:DA game, it seems curious that the Bellona is factionally available (via the MUL) only to Clan Hell's Horses for its entire existence.

Is there a reason for this (that ideally can be shared), is this something on the radar but yet to be looked at, or any other explanation that can be shared?

Would there be room to review possible availabilities prior to Dark Age, given the wide spread by Dark Age?

Thanks in advance!

after discussion, we concluded that the horses would have no reason to hoard the bellonas all to themselves. they remain horse-exclusive until 3100 to reflect that the factory had to be moved to the IS and then build enough runs to proliferate around.

Standard
Late Republic: Add CC, FS, LC, RoTS, MSC
Dark Ages: Add CC, FS, LC, RoTS, MSC, FWL
ilClan: Add CC, FS, LC, FWL

Laser
Late Republic: Add CC, FS, LC, RoTS
Dark Ages: Add CC, FS, LC, RoTS
ilClan: Add CC, FS, LC


oops. misunderstood directions. this change only applies to the Standard

« Last Edit: 22 August 2022, 18:15:26 by Sartris »

 

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