Author Topic: Ghost Bear - Species art. (Read 5568 times)

marauder648 · « **on:** 22 October 2020, 03:48:44 »

I dunno if folks have seen the cannonical art for the Ghost Bear but...well..its...um...

That.

And when I showed that to an artist friend of mine, the lass who drew the Clan uniforms, she said she physically recoiled and felt sorry for it and said she'd work on a reworked version.

And this is the WIP

And yeah, Ghost Bear's are HELLA massive, standing anywhere around 6'5 - 7 feet tall at the shoulder and if they rear up anywhere up to around 16 feet tall. Able to look a few squat mech's in their cockpit.

As always, feedback is most welcome!

SteelRaven · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 October 2020, 13:55:25 »

Looks great so far

worktroll · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 October 2020, 14:37:37 »

Isn't the Ghost Bear canonically with 6 legs? Or did that slip somewhere along the line since my misspent youth?

marauder648 · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 October 2020, 14:51:39 »

Quote from: worktroll on 22 October 2020, 14:37:37

Isn't the Ghost Bear canonically with 6 legs? Or did that slip somewhere along the line since my misspent youth?

Its got 4 but a line in one of the Clan books said it held someone with its 'middle pair of legs' but the art the whole two pictures we've got that one above and

show it as having 4 legs. So it was probably just badly written.

GreekFire · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 October 2020, 15:12:31 »

Decided to do some quick hunting around. "The Clawing", by Craig A. Reed Jr, and "Trial by Chaos", by J. Steven York both talk about the Ghost Bear having four legs. The Classic Battletech Companion also has a fantastic description of the creature, and says it has four legs.

Out of curiosity, what said it had middle legs?

marauder648 · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 October 2020, 15:17:34 »

It was in the Clan book when talking about Tseng and co when they were banished.

This was a quote from someone else

Quote

From what I recall, the idea it might have 6 comes from a passage in one of the novels describing a Bear Khan wearing the pelt of a ghost bear saying something like "the middle legs tied around his waist like a belt" ...thus implying the bear had a middle set of legs...that and the logo having 6 legs, but nothing has ever been shown in cannon stating 6 legs really, with the few canon depictions showing 4 legs I believe

worktroll · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 October 2020, 15:58:25 »

The logo has 6 legs, no? Wierd if it is a quadruped.

jimdigris · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:00:30 »

A middle set of legs would be smacking into the fore and hind legs while the bear was running fast. This would slow it down, increase the surface area through which heat is lost, and increase metabolic needs in a frigid environment. They would be a burden to the creature which would be weeded out with time. I don't see a six-legged creature of this nature evolving in the first place.

marauder648 · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:03:37 »

Quote from: jimdigris on 22 October 2020, 16:00:30

A middle set of legs would be smacking into the fore and hind legs while the bear was running fast. This would slow it down, increase the surface area through which heat is lost, and increase metabolic needs in a frigid environment. They would be a burden to the creature which would be weeded out with time. I don't see a six-legged creature of this nature evolving in the first place.

Aye, sure its an ambush predator not a persuit one but still, totally right, plus six legs would look a bit weird.

worktroll · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:04:44 »

Well, the thing about alien life is, it's alien ... Life on Earth hasn't worked out for vertebrates with more than 4 limbs. Different planets, different options (read "Wonderful Life" by Stephen J Gould for a dated but well presented argument that things were once, and could have been now, very different.)

A GB with 6 equal-ish limbs would need to be longer, just to allow for the issue you raise. Or the limbs might be shorter. Or the front limbs smaller/shorter, etc. Marauder648, do you think your artist would like the challenge of making a workable(ish) 6-limb variant?

marauder648 · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:08:17 »

Quote from: worktroll on 22 October 2020, 16:04:44

Well, the thing about alien life is, it's alien ... Life on Earth hasn't worked out for vertebrates with more than 4 limbs. Different planets, different options (read "Wonderful Life" by Stephen J Gould for a dated but well presented argument that things were once, and could have been now, very different.)

A GB with 6 equal-ish limbs would need to be longer, just to allow for the issue you raise. Or the limbs might be shorter. Or the front limbs smaller/shorter, etc. Marauder648, do you think your artist would like the challenge of making a workable(ish) 6-limb variant?

If she started it as that then maybe but its too far along now sadly.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:30:59 »

Quote from: worktroll on 22 October 2020, 15:58:25

The logo has 6 legs, no? Wierd if it is a quadruped.

The legs are symbolic like the stars on the Clan Wolf logo... plus it looks cool.

GreekFire · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:36:32 »

Ah! The six-legged quote is from Lethal Heritage.
Also found this is anyone's interested: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/ghost-bear-logo/

worktroll · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 October 2020, 16:47:00 »

Ta muchly!

marauder648 · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 October 2020, 00:28:39 »

Quote from: worktroll on 22 October 2020, 16:47:00

Ta muchly!

Aye thank ya

Good to know!

Wrangler · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 October 2020, 07:32:55 »

I always thought the six arms thing was it clawing people so fast, it look like it had six.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 October 2020, 12:45:24 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 23 October 2020, 07:32:55

I always thought the six arms thing was it clawing people so fast, it look like it had six.

... Yeah, let's go with this.

marauder648 · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 November 2020, 00:45:56 »

Its slowly coming along, artist hurt her arm so had to take a break.

An' look at the bebbies! <3

SteelRaven · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 November 2020, 23:10:21 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 21 November 2020, 00:45:56

Its slowly coming along, artist hurt her arm so had to take a break.

Ouch, sorry to hear that

BATTLEMASTER · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 November 2020, 10:21:05 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 21 November 2020, 00:45:56

Its slowly coming along, artist hurt her arm so had to take a break.

And that's why you don't mess with bears!

All kidding aside I hope she gets well soon! This looks great

marauder648 · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 November 2020, 10:52:55 »

Quote from: BATTLEMASTER on 25 November 2020, 10:21:05

And that's why you don't mess with bears!

All kidding aside I hope she gets well soon! This looks great

She's just been working hard on various project so had to give her arm a rest.

marauder648 · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 January 2021, 04:48:18 »

Drawn by my amazing friend - https://www.deviantart.com/jinsonlygurl who did the Battletech uniforms as well, I showed her the original art of the Ghost Bear and she said she physically recoiled at the sight of it and said she wanted to save the poor thing. Having 1st made sure that the Ghost Bear isn't a 6-limbed beasty but is a biiiiiiiiig bear she came up with this. I wasn't expecting her to do more than a side on or standing shot yet she went above and beyond.

We changed it a little bit, basically coming up with an idea that during summer months its breeding season and they get little dark bits on their noses and around their lips whilst in winter, these are usually a pale bluish grey to off whites. This is fine as during this period there's less snow in the regions where the Ghost Bear's live and lots of rocks are more exposed. The summer period is also the time when cubs are born and move outside of the dens.

So it's my pleasure to present ya with the redone (but not canon) Ghost Bear.

As always, thoughts and comments are most welcome!

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 January 2021, 05:19:32 »

Looks good nice and intimidating

marauder648 · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 January 2021, 05:32:46 »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on 26 January 2021, 05:19:32

Looks good nice and intimidating

And the cubs

When I saw them I made squeaky noises

Kojak · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 January 2021, 06:08:19 »

Wow, I love this. And frankly, I'd love to see what your friend would do with some of the other Clan totems.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 January 2021, 07:51:52 »

Quote from: Kojak on 26 January 2021, 06:08:19

Wow, I love this. And frankly, I'd love to see what your friend would do with some of the other Clan totems.

(Cough) Nova Cat (cough) don't mind me I'm good

marauder648 · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 January 2021, 07:58:13 »

well next on the menu is the Ice Hellion because that things art is a disaster and I need it for..reasons. But others could be redone in the future, the Nova Cat is a good example of a beasty that needs help, the Smoke Jag too, and the Hell's Horse (which i'd change to make an alien horse like beasty rather than turning a herbivore into a carnivore seemingly 'because its cool'.)

Major Headcase · « **Reply #27 on:** 26 January 2021, 15:06:14 »

Its too... cute...

Great artwork, but I'd imagine something more ferocious looking; more "giant terrifying wolf/bear/stegosaurus crossbreed" and less "noble mystic bear/king fu panda spirit animal"

Kasaga · « **Reply #28 on:** 26 January 2021, 15:15:50 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 26 January 2021, 04:48:18

Can I has a Ghost Bear Cub? See you have two!

BATTLEMASTER · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 January 2021, 15:54:34 »

Quote from: Major Headcase on 26 January 2021, 15:06:14

Its too... cute...

Great artwork, but I'd imagine something more ferocious looking; more "giant terrifying wolf/bear/stegosaurus crossbreed" and less "noble mystic bear/king fu panda spirit animal"

I think it looks pretty annoyed myself

Love the artwork and hope to see the ice hellion soon!

Wrangler · « **Reply #30 on:** 27 January 2021, 08:33:08 »

Quote from: Kasaga on 26 January 2021, 15:15:50

Can I has a Ghost Bear Cub? See you have two!

If you recall, the Rasalhague unit captured a Ghost Bear Cub that hangs out their officer club pretending it's a rug before it does playful ambush.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 January 2021, 01:42:10 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 27 January 2021, 08:33:08

If you recall, the Rasalhague unit captured a Ghost Bear Cub that hangs out their officer club pretending it's a rug before it does playful ambush.

Cute, wounder what will happen when the cub gets bigger

marauder648 · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 January 2021, 05:26:30 »

Quote from: SteelRaven on 28 January 2021, 01:42:10

Cute, wounder what will happen when the cub gets bigger

I'd guess that it could be semi-tame kinda like - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4E9yrGczbk&ab_channel=OrphanedWildlifeCenter / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvKVGL95wDw&ab_channel=OrphanedWildlifeCenter

Jimbo here was a Kodiak (he sadly passed away a few years ago) and he was raised as a cub by the chap there and he was quite friendly with other people (and performed roles in movies where they needed a bear) but he's still a huge omnivore and even if he didn't mean to hurt you a bit of a rough and tumble swipe could easily hurt (bear claws are not sharp and not retractable but when there's that much weight and strength behind them, skins pretty much paper). And a Ghost Bear is considerably bigger than a Kodiak, and more predatory. So it depends on the bear's personality, he could be quite a friendly if terrifying bear, or it could be a case of him needing to be sent somewhere (a zoo or something) purely to survive and for the safety of everyone around him.

Phantom000 · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 September 2021, 15:06:29 »

I think the part about the ghost bear species actually having six limbs is a relic from when the developers intended the Clans to be actual aliens invading the Inner Sphere. I think it was Michael A. Stackpole who suggested making them the descendants of Kerensky and the SLDF, but by then a lot of details had been fleshed out by the time he started writing Blood of Kerensky so it got left in.

Later it was probably retconned as artistic license on the part of Jorgensson and Tseng, or whoever designed it in the first place. To me at least, the extra arms makes their insignia look more like a snowflake.

Or am I just weird?

marauder648 · « **Reply #34 on:** 22 September 2021, 15:49:29 »

that's a good idea

With the Logo though, we know from Herb that originally the Ghost bear was suppose to be a 6-limbed alien ursine like beasty, but somehow that got lost in translation and the artist drew it as a big, shaggy bear, and they just seemingly went 'eh whatever' and didn't get it changed and went with it, resulting in a 4 legged bear.

HABeas2 · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 September 2021, 11:30:16 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 22 September 2021, 15:49:29

that's a good idea With the Logo though, we know from Herb that originally the Ghost bear was suppose to be a 6-limbed alien ursine like beasty, but somehow that got lost in translation and the artist drew it as a big, shaggy bear, and they just seemingly went 'eh whatever' and didn't get it changed and went with it, resulting in a 4 legged bear.

Odd. I don't remember being the one to say that.

- Herb

marauder648 · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 September 2021, 14:28:30 »

Quote from: HABeas2 on 23 September 2021, 11:30:16

Odd. I don't remember being the one to say that.

- Herb

My bad it was Hab

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/ghost-bear-logo/msg248531/#msg248531

HABeas2 · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 September 2021, 16:32:15 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 23 September 2021, 14:28:30

My bad it was Hab

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-lead-developers/ghost-bear-logo/msg248531/#msg248531

I stand corrected.

-Herb

Takiro · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 September 2021, 19:30:03 »

I never took the insignia so literally but I suppose a six legged Bear would certainly be extraterrestrial. It could be the rule of cool or perhaps some sort of symbolism. Why does the Wolf Clan insignia have so many stars? I do believe the Invading Clans Sourcebook published long ago illustrated a four legged Ghost Bear.

SteelRaven · « **Reply #39 on:** 23 September 2021, 20:17:05 »

Feel compelled to once again to complement the artist, it is great work.

marauder648 · « **Reply #40 on:** 24 September 2021, 06:13:55 »

Quote from: Takiro on 23 September 2021, 19:30:03

I never took the insignia so literally but I suppose a six legged Bear would certainly be extraterrestrial. It could be the rule of cool or perhaps some sort of symbolism. Why does the Wolf Clan insignia have so many stars? I do believe the Invading Clans Sourcebook published long ago illustrated a four legged Ghost Bear.

Aye and it was that old art that I wanted to get replaced because it was horrid and looked like an overly aggressive shagpile rug with claws.

Wrangler · « **Reply #41 on:** 24 September 2021, 06:16:40 »

I always thought symbol of the Clan was that bear was fast in it's attacks.

trboturtle · « **Reply #42 on:** 24 September 2021, 08:55:32 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 24 September 2021, 06:16:40

I always thought symbol of the Clan was that bear was fast in it's attacks.

It's an ambush hunter -- a long period of being still, then exploding into action when the prey is close....

Craig

David CGB · « **Reply #43 on:** 24 September 2021, 16:15:02 »

Quote from: marauder648 on 24 September 2021, 06:13:55

Aye and it was that old art that I wanted to get replaced because it was horrid and looked like an overly aggressive shagpile rug with claws.

seconded

Intermittent_Coherence · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 September 2021, 05:47:08 »

Maybe the number six has some sort of significance in the Ghost Bear iconology? Much like the Falcons and the letter 'D' (and katana).

jimdigris · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 September 2021, 15:40:03 »

Maybe they just thought that it looked cool.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #46 on:** 15 October 2021, 18:13:36 »

IIRC one of the earlier quotes was about one of the C* Primuses during the 2nd? SW having dream visions of a bunch of wild animals attacking the IS.
One of them was a 6 legged bear.
Then we got the actual symbol/icon & the quote from Lethal Heritage.

But other than those early small notes everything else has been standard 4 legs.

My own Head-cannon is that he clan symbol represents many swiping claws of the bear & not an actual 6 legged bear.
The Primus was right after the Minnesota Tribe affair so maybe had insider knowledge from Wolverine refugee records or battle cam footage or something.
And just change intermediate to rear in Phelan's description and all is well.

DOC_Agren · « **Reply #47 on:** 20 October 2021, 16:41:47 »

The artist did great work