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Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen  (Read 10845 times)

Moonsword

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'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« on: 09 December 2011, 19:27:42 »
Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen

One of the earlier 'new' designs seen among the Clans, the Incubus is actually one of their older units, first encountered among Jade Falcon garrisons.  Initially enigmatic, it was eventually determined that the Incubus, termed the Vixen by the Spheroid community, was a duelling 'Mech introduced around the end of the Golden Century, although it was sometimes used by second-line units in standard combat situations.  Following their capture of Tokasha MechWorks, the Hell's Horses begin to produce newer models, both as part of the next wave of Clan designs to emerge after the Great Refusal and as part of the revival of the Unseen.  Later developments (something about a Reaving and a loss of access to the Homeworlds) cut the Clans' supply lines back home, leaving most of the Spheroid Clans scrambling to get new production up and running.  The Horses were part of the general struggle and turned to their allies in Phelan Kell's Wolves-in-Exile for assistance, a partnership that had already produced the Hellstar.  Once the design work on what could be a controversial new upgrade around here was done, it was put into production at Csesztreg Industrialplex Alpha.  The Horses are using them to rebuild their touman while the limited number in WiE hands are acting as reconnaissance specialists in light 'Mech units.

The original Incubus is a light that focuses more speed and armor than firepower but what's there is pretty effective for the most part.  30 tons puts it at the size of a Kit Fox, but a 270-rated XLFE makes it 50% faster than the Falcons' main light OmniMech before the introduction of the Fire Falcon and Cougar.  An endo-steel frame saves some tonnage, as well, and the unit is wrapped in 5.5 tons of ferro-fibrous armor, maxing a 30 tonner out.  10 points across the arms and forward side torsos protect against Clan large lasers, 15 on the CT from Gauss rifles or particle cannons, with 14 points on the legs stopping a pair of hits from the ER or pulse versions of the medium laser.  The rear torsos, as 4 points on the sides and 5 on the rear, are about as good as they can get without eroding the forward protection.  Your 'big gun' is a large pulse laser mounted on the right arm, supported by an extended-range medium laser and a pair of machine guns in each torso.  Personally, I think the designers were leaning more toward the ability to spray someone with lead at point-blank range since a dueling 'Mech would have relatively little use for infantry killing.  In one of those “drugs in the water cooler” moments, someone stuck the half-ton of machine gun ammo in the center torso.  On non-CASE designs, where any significant amount of ammo going up is pretty much going to end the 'Mech's salvage potential right there, this can make some sense to get the ammo behind the thickest armor but on a Clan unit, it's mainly a good way to occasionally waste resources when someone tags the ammo bin.

The Incubus 2 (not to be confused with the Incubus II) swaps the LPL out for an ER PPC, trading accuracy for sheer firepower.  Considering the speed, either one is going to make a hellacious sniper, and unlike the Pack Hunter, they have the armor and weapons to get close and play with someone if they have to (up to a point, anyway).  The 2 lacks the original's heat balance, sharing the same 10 double heat sinks, but careful judgment should let you keep firing easily enough.  Make no mistake, though - lights dueling with ER PPCs are slaves to the whims of their malevolent cubical masters.

In contrast to its predecessors, the Incubus 3 is a dedicated in-fighter.  The machine guns are still there but the lasers were replaced entirely, opting for a medium pulse laser in each torso and a Streak SRM 6 out in the old LPL mount on the right arm.  Although you can't shoot past 12 hexes, the accuracy gains and raw speed might be worth it in the right terrain.   Tanks are going to hate this one.

The Horses' first effort to improve the design was the Incubus 4.  Continuing with the infighting theme, the main gun is now a heavy large laser, the hardest-hitting energy weapon available to 'Mechs (not counting capacitor-backed PPCs here).  Unfortunately, they didn't add any heat sinks, so using it occupies basically your entire heat scale.  The backup lasers are two medium pulse lasers, hitting both ends of the accuracy scale simultaneously, along with two of each type of micro laser, evenly split between the left and right torso.  Personally, I'd go for the 2 or 3, but aggressive MechWarriors with good aim can probably do some nasty things by circling around a heavier opponent, then tearing into their rear plates.

The Incubus 5 is the revenge of the Incubus 3.  An ATM 6 hangs off the right arm, fed by two tons of ammunition (I suggest you use ER and HE), and each side torso has an ERML and a pair of LMGs, trading firepower for twice the range.  Exactly why the design has a full ton of LMG ammo instead of, say, a light TAG or active probe, I don't know, but the decision displeases me a bit.

The Incubus II takes all of that history and goes kind of sideways on us.  Still using the same armor on the same endo-steel skeleton, the Horses slowed the 'Mech down to “only” 129 kph at a run.  To make up for that, they added eight jump jets, giving you the mobility of a Spider, and then mounted a partial wing to grant another 2 jump MP and 3 heat dissipation in standard atmospheres.  (I leave looking up the other atmospheric pressures on pages 293 and 295 of Tactical Operations as an exercise for the reader.)  The armament is sort of familiar and sort of not.  The classic battery of super-light weapons and the nasty arm gun are gone but the side torsos each mount an extended-range medium pulse laser.  ER pulse lasers strike me as neither fish nor fowl a lot of the time, running hotter than either of their predecessor laser types while trading either range and size or accuracy to produce a weapon that's somewhere in between.  Although I still think that's the case, here, the Horses just might have a point.  The Incubus II has the dissipation to soak the heat and the reach vs. pulse lasers is handy sometimes, although an argument can be made in favor of the classic ERML battery.  A laser anti-missile system is also mounted in the left torso, with a light active probe in the head.  Not being a fan of LAMS heat generation, particularly on a 'Mech with enough heat generation to run the scale up on its own, I'm not too sure I wouldn't have opted for ECM instead but the extra defensive strength comes in handy sometimes.  The real joker in the deck, though, is the selection of handheld weapons.  Each pod has 8 points of armor; the total ammunition for the weapons is noted in parentheses.  Your weapons selections include two medium chemical lasers (15), a Streak LRM 5 (12), two LRM 5s (12), a Streak SRM 4 (12), a trio of APGRs (40), a quartet of machine guns (100), and TAG.

The Incubus II perfectly demonstrates both the potential and the limitations of the handheld weapon concept.  There's one basic problem with the idea, demonstrated to graphic effect on the Incubus II: Handheld weapons prevent the use of arm- and torso-mounted weapons.  Please keep in mind that the Incubus II's lasers and its LAMS are torso-mounted.  Yes, I know David White's lovely artwork implies it's only on one arm, but the actual rules indicate otherwise.  Pods are fragile, too, although they're not too likely to get hit.  Another thing to keep in mind is that anyone can pick up and use a handheld weapon if it's 10% or less of the 'Mech's own tonnage.  How big a problem that is in practice is debatable - sure, they can pick the weapons up, but then they get to deal with the same limitations - but it's worth knowing about none the less.  So if I'm clearly inclined to think this is another one of those situations where a nifty idea simply doesn't work that well on the battlefield, where's that potential I'm talking about?  Simple.  If you're in a situation where those limitations can be worked around, several of the provided pods do have their uses.  The LRM weapons worked out for us in Prototypes have the obvious benefit of providing a long-range fire option but you can also use the Incubus as a minelayer a la the Sling if you put Thunder rounds in the handheld pod.  A few of the other munitions might be handy, too, such as smoke rounds.  Arming your typical Archer with handheald munitions is a bad idea; arming a Hunchback with LRMs isn't and the Incubus II falls closer to the Hunchback on the armament range scale.  The TAG and anti-infantry weapons (coming in APGR and MG flavors; personally I prefer the former) give you some additional options when you simply don't have another 'Mech or tank around to deal with the problem, but they also cost you all of your heavier firepower.  The chemical laser weapon looks interesting but considering your own ER MPLs offer greater range and firepower, I'd tell the techs to put them on tanks where they belong.  The Streaks are similarly nebulous.  I'm simply unvoncinced a Streak 4 is worth losing your lasers under most circumstances.

As a light duelist, most of the series is competent, having solid armor for their size and a mixture of weapons that let you use the 'Mech's speed to good effect against the more heavily-armed lights we're used to seeing in front-line formations.  That said, you absolutely have to use that speed aggressively in such situations to control the terms of engagement.  Letting a Kit Fox or Adder really use its heavier weapons load, let alone doing that with a Cougar, is a thoroughly excellent way to lose.  The same speed makes it an effective scout, raider, or harrier, with the original, 2, 5, and with the right handheld weapon, the II all having the ability to snipe at someone and harass them.  These aren't really Clan tactics but many of the Clans have learned some hard lessons in tactical pragmatism when dealing with Spheroids, so put those lessons to good use.  And remember, a light like this embraces the maxim “Speed is life!”  It's very, very true.

Countering the Incubus isn't too hard if you can hit it in the first place, so your options need to focus on two aspects: Bringing the right equipment if possible and trying to force it into terrain that will bog it down, something that's much harder to arrange for the jump-mobile Incubus II.  As for hitting it, the usual suspects - pulse lasers, targeting computers, cluster shot for LB-Xs, precision ammo for standards - and the crop of Tactical Operations options (with special mention of the Long Tom Cannon, something no light ever wants pointed in its general direction) are all things you want on the table for dealing with sort of 'Mech.  A well-armored light is still a light, so once it's hit, kill it fast and move on to bigger prey.

References: The Incubus isn't a new 'Mech, meaning it's not surprising to find the older models in the MUL, although we're still waiting for information on the units from TRO: Prototypes.  Eight different miniatures grace the pages of CamoSpecs.

iamfanboy

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #1 on: 10 December 2011, 00:00:14 »
The Incubus was the first Clan 'Mech I ever piloted, and it truly hit home the Clan paradigm for me - Clan heavies move like IS mediums, mediums move like IS lights, and lights move like UTTER INSANITY - and lights have the firepower of IS mediums, mediums the firepower of IS heavies, heavies  have that of IS assaults, and assaults have the firepower of UTTER INSANITY.

The original is one of the most anime-looking designs out of any TRO, too; so much so that I'd give my left pinkie for one. *sigh* The new one? No, not so much.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #2 on: 10 December 2011, 00:16:45 »
I understand the handhelds obscuring torso weapons on lights and maybe mediums, but the size of heavies and assaults should've made it impossible for a handheld weapon to obscure entire torsos. It's this rule that makes it kinda broken, especially for IS 'Mechs, where many of the big guns are often packed into the torsos and some are even limited to the torsos.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #3 on: 10 December 2011, 00:24:47 »
The original is one of the most anime-looking designs out of any TRO, too; so much so that I'd give my left pinkie for one. *sigh* The new one? No, not so much.

The big problem with original Incubus/Vixen is the ridiculously tiny head. It might very well have the most lopsided body mass to cockpit size ratio ever.

Diablo48

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #4 on: 10 December 2011, 00:53:52 »
A comment about the 4.  A fast moving light like the Incubus is the perfect platform for a Heavy Large Laser because you have the speed to get a shot at the rear armor which is almost always incapable of stopping that 16 point brick even on assault 'Mechs.  Keeping it as the sole main gun on a light like this also lets you run it on just the free engine DHS which takes away the limitation that makes it such a poor choice on larger designs, however the Incubus 4 squanders some of this potential with the MPLs which have almost as much range as the HLL.  It would be better off if it pulled them for some combination of HMLs, APGRs, SRMs, Small, and/or Micro Lasers to give you a real bracketing solution.  Of course, you can still make use of it if you think of the weapons brackets by types of targets with the MPLs giving you the accuracy to catch other lights or fast mediums and the HLL providing a hammer to crack the thick armor of heavier designs.

As for the II, I can never get behind ER Pulse Lasers because you can always get better results by tying ER Lasers to a Targeting Computer.  In this case, the swap gives you more range, two less heat generation, and another free ton to play with for absolutely no loss.

Edit: I just pulled together a new HLL variant along the lines of what I was suggesting, and I also added some electronics to help it out in its roll as a scout which is posted in the link below for anyone interested.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,253.msg321943.html#msg321943
« Last Edit: 10 December 2011, 01:09:27 by Diablo48 »


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #5 on: 10 December 2011, 02:05:49 »
Unless the Horses haven't yet got to activating any TarComp production lines yet, maybe that's why they're still sticking to ERPLs.

A. Lurker

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #6 on: 10 December 2011, 06:03:48 »
With the Incubus 5, I'd actually be inclined to use a mix of standard and HE ammo, not ER. A single ATM 6 does not a good sniper make, especially not with only ten long-range shots before the bin runs dry, and the rest of the weapons load points towards a design that wants to fight at medium-to-short range anyway -- that's just where the increased punch of the standard missiles (whose range profile conveniently largely matches that of the ERMLs) would come in handy.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #7 on: 10 December 2011, 06:47:08 »
Personally, I've found that by the time I want to use standard rounds, the increased accuracy of ERs tends to make me lean toward hitting a target or the chance of a payoff in HE's greater damage sings a siren song for my desire to see carnage.  I just don't use standard ATM ammo as often as I do the other two types.  I also dislike not having any way to respond to someone playing plinking games with a fast-moving sniper if I can't close, but that's a secondary concern on something this fast.

Everything in these articles that isn't directly based on the stats and fluff is, of course, my opinion and experience.  I've been proven wrong plenty of times before, too.  I write these articles to learn as much as to teach sometimes.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #8 on: 10 December 2011, 07:15:11 »
I understand the handhelds obscuring torso weapons on lights and maybe mediums, but the size of heavies and assaults should've made it impossible for a handheld weapon to obscure entire torsos. It's this rule that makes it kinda broken, especially for IS 'Mechs, where many of the big guns are often packed into the torsos and some are even limited to the torsos.

It's something that needs to be built into the design well for sure. The -8X / -8P Quickdraw and -6T Axman all get it a little right and a little wrong, in at least attempting
to locate some of the hard mounted weapons where they can be fired all the time in the head or legs.

There still hasn't been a near-optimal case of the concept as yet, which is to say fill the head and legs to the brim, maybe having backup some weapons in the arms/torsos to make up
the firepower difference after loosing a handheld, and finally spending the rest of the tonnage making the 'Mech the fastest and toughest S.O.B. it can be.

The crunch levels on the handhelds themselves, well that's entirely a different ball of wax.  :D


 

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #9 on: 10 December 2011, 07:45:23 »
From the original Jade Falcon Sourcebook:

"This light 'mech is very impressive, somehow managing to look aggressive despite its weight..."

And that sums up the Incubus nicely.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #10 on: 10 December 2011, 07:55:50 »
This 'Mech used to be AWESOME until they changed/clarified the TComp/Pulse rules. Now it's just a good 'Mech
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #11 on: 10 December 2011, 13:36:36 »
There is no Pulse/TC version i am aware of?
The only rules change the Incubus suffered was the loss of its fifth machine gun when fractional accounting bought it.

The big problem with original Incubus/Vixen is the ridiculously tiny head. It might very well have the most lopsided body mass to cockpit size ratio ever.
Neg, that honor goes to the original Goshawk from the same book.
And i always justified it for myself with the cockpit reaching below into the torso.
Because i absolutely love the way the thing looks, and the 1 and 2 are really great machines, a downright terror against the IS Mechs of its time, combining the speed to run down a Locust with nearly the firepower of a Thunderbolt!
I still vividly remember a certain Tukayyid book scenario that had the ComGuards attack the Vipers supply lines, running into their "inferior" second line Mechs, on a open field.
It was ugly...


A. Lurker

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #12 on: 10 December 2011, 15:19:24 »
Personally, I've found that by the time I want to use standard rounds, the increased accuracy of ERs tends to make me lean toward hitting a target or the chance of a payoff in HE's greater damage sings a siren song for my desire to see carnage.  I just don't use standard ATM ammo as often as I do the other two types.  I also dislike not having any way to respond to someone playing plinking games with a fast-moving sniper if I can't close, but that's a secondary concern on something this fast.

Everything in these articles that isn't directly based on the stats and fluff is, of course, my opinion and experience.  I've been proven wrong plenty of times before, too.  I write these articles to learn as much as to teach sometimes.

*nod* Just as I'm merely speaking from personal experience myself. In experimenting with ATMs, I've found ER missiles nicely long-ranged and accurate...but also kind of anemic and prone to running out too soon to really make up for that. At which point I need to close to use the other ammo types anyway.

So in the end, somewhat to my own surprise at first, I actually do find myself using standard ammo quite a bit. HE comes first pretty much always since it packs the most punch and is the only ATM ammo with no minimum range issues, but after that, for those units with only two bins at least, it depends on my battle plan -- if I'm slow and can't be sure of dictating the range, ER is good because hitting things early and accurately is more important than dealing massive damage, but if I'm reasonably mobile and planning to get into the other guy's face anyway I do prefer standard rounds for those times when I'm not quite in fully effective HE range just yet.

And the Incubus 5 is clearly more a case of the latter. :)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #13 on: 12 December 2011, 04:45:16 »
I loved this mech in MechWarrior 2: Ghost Bears Legacy. One of my favorite Clan lights.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #14 on: 12 December 2011, 08:42:48 »
*nod* Just as I'm merely speaking from personal experience myself. In experimenting with ATMs, I've found ER missiles nicely long-ranged and accurate...but also kind of anemic and prone to running out too soon to really make up for that. At which point I need to close to use the other ammo types anyway.

So in the end, somewhat to my own surprise at first, I actually do find myself using standard ammo quite a bit. HE comes first pretty much always since it packs the most punch and is the only ATM ammo with no minimum range issues, but after that, for those units with only two bins at least, it depends on my battle plan -- if I'm slow and can't be sure of dictating the range, ER is good because hitting things early and accurately is more important than dealing massive damage, but if I'm reasonably mobile and planning to get into the other guy's face anyway I do prefer standard rounds for those times when I'm not quite in fully effective HE range just yet.

For the Incubus, I definitely prefer standard + HE loadouts vs. ER.  If you're exposing yourself to fire at the ranges ER ATM's matter at, you're doing it wrong. Get in and watch 4-5 HE rounds play merry havoc with your opponent instead.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #15 on: 12 December 2011, 11:30:59 »
Honestly, I've never gotten much past the 1 and 2 models.  The other ones look quite good, but the first two are exceptionaly good, and I'm hardly ever tempted not to use them.

The LPL is in most ways the perfict choice (though its probably the perfict choice for just about any mech ever) since its range and accuracy alow the Incubus to keep the range wide open; between that and the excessive speed it can largely ensure that hits against its armor are few and far between.  At the same time, it can constantly run and accept the penalties of range and yet still frequently connect.

The PPC is nice when fighting slow, lumbering assualt mechs that can't do much to avoid fire anyway, and you need the extra power to carve up their armor.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #16 on: 12 December 2011, 12:33:44 »
Personally, I've found that by the time I want to use standard rounds, the increased accuracy of ERs tends to make me lean toward hitting a target or the chance of a payoff in HE's greater damage sings a siren song for my desire to see carnage. 

Ditto. When I ran ATM munitions side by side (primarily as a comparison to Clan LRMs), the standard munitions were almost pointless. The improved target numbers of the ER loads made ER equal to or better than standard except at a few specific ranges. And HE was, of course, well-suited for targets at range 3 or less. (Of course, my real finding was that ATMs delivered basically the same damage per ton as Clan LRMs, but without LRMs' versatility of indirect fire and specialty ammo types.)

In contrast to its predecessors, the Incubus 3 is a dedicated in-fighter.  The machine guns are still there but the lasers were replaced entirely, opting for a medium pulse laser in each torso and a Streak SRM 6 out in the old LPL mount on the right arm.  Although you can't shoot past 12 hexes, the accuracy gains and raw speed might be worth it in the right terrain.   Tanks are going to hate this one.

I'm not sure I agree fully about "the accuracy gains." There's a definite advantage to the pulse mediums over ER mediums (for Clan pulse and ER weapons anyway). But the Streak-6's loss of range compared to the main guns (energy weapons no less) of the 1 and 2 models also equates to a sizable loss in accuracy. I'd much prefer to have an energy weapon with a short range of 6 or 7 (and possibly -2 to hit) than the option to save ammo if I miss with a 12-hex-range missile launcher.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #17 on: 12 December 2011, 16:52:24 »
Streak's more of an endurance gain than accuracy gain. MPLs are a bit of gain on accuracy, but ERMLs have, in my opinion, more comfortable range bands. But that's just my opinion. :)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #18 on: 12 December 2011, 17:54:21 »
Streak's more of an endurance gain than accuracy gain.

Yep - if you're replacing another ammo-using weapon rather than energy weapons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #19 on: 12 December 2011, 18:03:16 »
Streaks also make the heat curve a little more forgiving, although without the main gun that is really not necessary.


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #20 on: 12 December 2011, 19:06:46 »
A comment about the 4.  A fast moving light like the Incubus is the perfect platform for a Heavy Large Laser because you have the speed to get a shot at the rear armor which is almost always incapable of stopping that 16 point brick even on assault 'Mechs.  Keeping it as the sole main gun on a light like this also lets you run it on just the free engine DHS which takes away the limitation that makes it such a poor choice on larger designs, however the Incubus 4 squanders some of this potential with the MPLs which have almost as much range as the HLL.  It would be better off if it pulled them for some combination of HMLs, APGRs, SRMs, Small, and/or Micro Lasers to give you a real bracketing solution.  Of course, you can still make use of it if you think of the weapons brackets by types of targets with the MPLs giving you the accuracy to catch other lights or fast mediums and the HLL providing a hammer to crack the thick armor of heavier designs.

Was not the Incubus 4 a jumping configuration? If so, that can easily explain the medium pulses: Heavy large
when you run, Medium Pulse when you jump. If not, then the Heavy Large opens holes, and then the Medium Pulses
are for going after equipment to try and take the 'mech down in a way that it is salvageable. At least, that is how I would use it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #21 on: 12 December 2011, 19:26:16 »
Was not the Incubus 4 a jumping configuration?

It's not.  The Incubus II is the only member of the family with jump jets.

peter crowley

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #22 on: 14 December 2011, 09:49:24 »
Has anyone else noticed that the incubus II is kind of like what would happen if the clans decided to build a spider IIC.

StCptMara

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #23 on: 14 December 2011, 20:53:03 »
Has anyone else noticed that the incubus II is kind of like what would happen if the clans decided to build a spider IIC.

Not really..because it doesn't miss the point like most of the Clan IIC's do...
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

SCC

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #24 on: 14 December 2011, 23:37:36 »
Last time there was a discussion about hand helds someone mentioned that the on torso or arms weapons only applies when firing the HH, but I can't find any thing to back this up

The only reason to use an ERMPL would be because you can't carry a LPL because of weight reasons

If you want to carry HH one handed I've posted some rules here on the site

peter crowley

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #25 on: 15 December 2011, 07:26:12 »
Not really..because it doesn't miss the point like most of the Clan IIC's do...
The Griffin IIC and Rifleman IIC weren't too bad but you have a point.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #26 on: 15 December 2011, 08:34:05 »
The original Marauder IIC, Warhammer IIC and Rifleman IIC 2 were some of the best cheap 'Mechs the Clans could field in their garrison forces and still hammer Spheroid frontline forces.

StCptMara

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #27 on: 15 December 2011, 08:59:23 »
The Griffin IIC and Rifleman IIC weren't too bad but you have a point.

Didn't those, you know, kinda keep to the same tonnage class, though?(Jenner IIC, though...is the best
example of "Missed the point"...couldn't they have, you know, at least let it keep energy weapon back-ups?)
"Victory or Debt!"- The Battlecry of Mercenaries everywhere

"Greetings, Mechwarrior! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against---Oops, wrong universe" - Unknown SLDF Recruiter

Reality and Battletech go hand in hand like a drug induced hallucination and engineering a fusion reactor ;-)

va_wanderer

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #28 on: 15 December 2011, 11:13:48 »
The original Marauder IIC, Warhammer IIC and Rifleman IIC 2 were some of the best cheap 'Mechs the Clans could field in their garrison forces and still hammer Spheroid frontline forces.

And even if it isn't cheap, the Rifleman IIC original is quite good at anti-aircraft work anyway, thanks to the quad pulses. Next best thing to LBX/Flak anyway. That it melts faces is a given...heck, I try and take so-called "second-line" Clan machines often. They're generally good for whatever you need without the Omni-tech flexibility anyway.

SCC

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Incubus/Vixen
« Reply #29 on: 16 December 2011, 00:55:52 »
One thing I forgot last time, AMS and L-AMS tend to be classified as equipment not weapons and thus would not be effected by carrying a hand held weapon

 

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