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Author Topic: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle  (Read 1882 times)

Trace Coburn

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Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« on: 06 December 2022, 05:59:59 »
EGL-R** Eagle – TRO3075


  Man alive, but we’re reaching back into hallowed antiquity with the ‘generic fighters’!  :o  First flown in 2324, the Eagle post-dates the SB-27 by barely a decade and reflects the outcome of House Marik’s first ASF development programme as the Sabre did House Kurita’s.  Its modern form was seen ‘only’ in 2601, but ImStar meant it for cheap, reliable operation independent of ammunition resupply, making it understandably popular with ‘lower-priority’ worlds and rendering it the FWLM’s primary transatmospheric combat system during the Star League era almost by default, but ImStar got stomped during SW1 and the Eagle (rather ironically) faded from prominence within the FWL, ceding its former primacy to the Stingray while other states maintained and even expanded their own inventories of Eagles.
  (Or Eagle clones, for that matter.  The Federated Suns stole Eagle blueprints from ImStar shortly before their plant was flattened and put the type into production on Axton during SW2, and to this day they serve some Feddie militias in place of the more ‘Davion’ Stuka.  The Capellan Confederation’s Saroyan Special Productions doesn’t seem to have *directly* stolen the Eagle from the Leaguers, but the genesis of the Tengo Lightning and Mujika’s ‘derivative’ Transit makes it amply clear that if the Cappies captured examples of the Eagle during their border-squabbles with the FWL, they were more than capable of cramming its specs into a new skin (to whit: Saroyan’s TR-13 Trangressor) and paying ImStar a licencing fee of... ‘the Mujika BOHICA!’  :D  Quite *how* Lockheed got the specs for production on Gibbs is left a mystery by the long-awaited fluff-text, but it may well have been one of the exchanges made during the Katrina Steiner/Hanse Davion negotiations that led to Big Pappa Pimp’s notorious alliance-by-marriage, SW4, and sundry other abuses of the FedCom’s neighbours.)

EGL-R6: 75t, 6/9/8/5 (300SFE), 80/52/40, N: LL, ML, W: LL, ML, A: ML, 25 SHS
  Not that said copies/clones are a bad choice, even in the era of foundtech.  A seventy-five ton spaceframe exhibiting 6/9 performance that could be termed ‘impressive’ by some onlookers (especially if they were used to chemical rockets!  :o), the Eagle is quite happy to turn-and-burn with most of the dogfighters of its day — and some of the ‘newer’ breeds, at that.  Though its five-ton fuel endurance is nothing extraordinary, its *armour* fraction is a gratifyingly solid fourteen tons; at a layout of 80/52/40, that armour is effectively immune to thresholding by the ubiquitous medium laser across its wings and nose and will even shake off a couple of doses from a *large* laser to its snout.
  Nor does the ‘good’ news end there, for the Eagle’s willingness to mix it up with opponents extends to its armament package.  All four of the firing-arcs house a single Magna II medium laser, offering all-around defence and crit-seeking capability, but these are merely back-ups to the *primary* weapons: a heavy-hitting Magna III laser-cannon mounted in the nose, and one more in each wing.  Moreover, this ‘flashbulb’ armament package is provided with no fewer than twenty-five heat-sinks, allowing pilots an impressive degree of freedom in their weapons-mixes.  At Medium range during the closing stages before a dogfight, or centre-lining someone during a ‘pell-mell brawl’, all three laser-cannons remain one point *under* the dissipation-circuits’ capacity — the sort of firepower than makes many fighter-pilots lick their chops.  }:)  In a ‘slashing attack’ during the turning battle, you can engage with everything you’ve got in the nose and the engaged wing *while* stinging another target (or a tail-gater) with the ML that will bear — all while remaining exactly heat-neutral.  If you’re in truly desperate straits, a full alpha-strike of everything you’ve got gets all the way up the heat-scale to +11 — which is exactly why you save it for such last-ditch circumstances, unless the idea of a +1 TH penalty *and* a 6+ ‘Random Movement’ roll *appeals* to you.  ::)

  All in all, the EGL-R6 is almost a classic example of the ‘level 1’ dogfighter — nimble enough to yank-and-bank with its competition, tough enough to absorb punishment and mean enough to dish out at least as good as it gets.  The fact that it’s a *heavy* fighter doing a medium’s job in that era can make for culture-shock for the unprepared, but it’s the sort of bird that falls under the heading of ‘all-purpose workhorse’.  Nor is it hurt by having no fewer than fifteen ‘hardpoints’ available for bombs or other external ordnance: okay, a full load of bombs makes for 3/5 manoeuvring performance that is ‘uncomfortably low’, but what those bombs will do to a ground-target is more than compensation enough, and following it up those bombs with a Strafe or Strike will most likely finish the victim with great dispatch.  (I might also note that in the dogfighter role, using a couple of external tanks for fuel on the way to the fight will greatly extend your endurance... and thus your chance to get kills when the other guy tries to RTB for gas.  :beatdown:)  And since (under current rules) a squadron of six Eagles possesses no fewer than *three* large-laser bays of 5-Capital damage each, ’Ship captains might want to be respectful of them as well.  :smirk:

  If you’re tasked to defeat an attack by Eagles, you’ve no easy task ahead of you.  (/me waits for the cries of ‘Thank you, Captain Obvious!’ to subside.  :P)  You need the firepower to punch through their armour and either the range/agility to evade return fire or the armour to survive it — the latter characteristic being conspicuous by its rarity in the era before the emergence of advanced aerospace components like DHS, ferro-aluminium armour, and most of all the eXtra-Light engine.  Absent an interceptor like the SYD-Z1 Seydlitz, which mates blistering agility to a large laser, my own preference would be for another 6/9 dogfighter with Medium-range weapons (like the Terran Hegemony’s Hellcat I), which has the speed to match the manoeuvres of the EGL-R6 and, once it gets behind the heavier machine, can pound away at it with multiple weapons heavy enough to beat the Eagle’s armour thresholds and force TAC checks.  (The Eagle’s only real soft spot is its tail; an ML can TAC it there, but the tail-gun discourages getting too close, so Medium range weapons like the LL and/or PPC would be my preference.)  Of course, like it says in The Book, it wouldn’t hurt to have support fire from LRM platforms to soften up the Eagles — or do them real harm, if they get a good angle.  ;)

Quote from: Technical Readout 3075
Several variants of the Eagle exist, from earlier pre-Star League primitive variants to upgrades found among the more prosperous worlds of the Inner Sphere. A number of low-tech versions exist, having proliferated through the Succession Wars, and they continue to fly with planetary militias and mercenary forces. The R4 Eagle, with five medium lasers, two large lasers, and industrial-grade armor, is a typical example of a backwater Eagle.
  Now, I don’t know exactly what ‘industrial grade armour’ actually *is*, but I’m willing to bet that it’s softer than regular plate, hence the need to offload at least four tons of warload to accommodate it; I’m also willing to bet that some heat-sinks went with the third laser-cannon.  That said, until we see a record-sheet and rules for said industrial armour, I’m *not* willing to speculate on full-blown specs for the EGL-R4.  Sorry.  :(

  There were two major variants of the Eagle in the ‘Primitive’ technology days, each accepting a 5/8 thrust curve but otherwise biasing themselves differently on the infamous speed/armour/firepower triangle.

EGL-R1: 75t, Primitive cockpit, 5/8/8/5 (225PFE/270SFE), 63/41/31 (Primitive), N: LL, ML, W: LL, ML, A: ML, 25 SHS
  The first model of Eagle, introduced in 2324, the -R1 was the engineers choosing the ‘speed & weapons’ foci, and doing a pretty fair job of it.  Even with the limitations of the day’s technology so clearly evident, this was a bird to be treated with respect; it wasn’t *blisteringly* fast, and the armour wasn’t quite where they wanted it to be, but the precedents for all the capabilities of the -R6 are clearly visible.  Like its evolved form, it gets kind’a toasty if you use all the forward guns against a centrelined target, but otherwise, this is a thoroughly proficient dogfighting platform.

EGL-R4: 75t, Primitive cockpit, 5/8/8/5 (225PFE/270SFE), 78/51/39 (Primitive), N: 2×LL, W: 2×ML, A: ML, 25 SHS
  Whether contemporaneous with the -R1, or a later experiment prioritising ‘speed & armour’, the -R4 drops one of the -R1’s large lasers for a close approximation of the armour-layout made ‘classic’ when technology advanced to the point where the -R6 became possible.  It’s clearly meant more for a dogfighter’s ‘slashing’ tactics, being able to hammer targets with its twin nose-cannons and the ‘engaged’ wing without building heat, though if you manage to centre-line someone you can give them everything you’ve got and sort’a-get away with it.

  The EGL-R9, on the other hand, is a far easier proposition to imagine.  Intended as a defensive ‘Dropper chopper’ for various orbital works like space-stations and such, it trades away the triple laser cannons for a little more concerted punch.  ;)
[STAT-BLOCK OMITTED]
  I don’t know that this is the best idea ever — after all, three 5-Capital bays do *more* damage than two bays of 6-Capital each, and I don’t recall a large number of assault droppers that are vulnerable to thresholding by twin PPC bays as opposed to the triple laser-cannon mounts — but it shows that someone’s thinking and trying to do something about a specific tactical problem, so at least the Robes didn’t kill *all* the brain-cells out there.  ::)


EGL-R9: 75t, 6/9/8/5 (300SFE), 80/52/40 (Standard), N: ML, W: PPC, ML, A: ML, 26 SHS
  An experiment intended to produce a specialist DropShip hunter (though probably not a Marik program, given that their production of PPCs was notoriously overstretched in the late-SW3/early-31st-century era), the -R9 Eagle gave up all three of its large lasers for a PPC in each wing and another heat-sink.  As I originally noted, I’m not completely sold on whether this was a good trade-off, since a squadron of -R6s generates more total damage, but if you play alt-historical scenarios featuring WarShips, a pair of 6-point Capital bays will see even a Lola-III destroyer experiencing what Nicholas Moran has famously dubbed ‘significant emotional events’.

  The EGL-R10, on the other hand, is intended as a specialist ground-attack bird.
EGL-R10: 75t, 6/9/8/5 (300SFE), 80/52/40 (Standard), N: LL, ML, W: 4×ML, A: ML, 29SHS
  The -R10 takes rather a ‘death of a thousand cuts’ approach to things, really — though the speed with which many MLs will flay all the armour from a BattleMech would likely appal anyone who’d never seen an Ontos in action.  :P  Reserved purely for the Striking/Strafing role, and given enough time to cool off between passes, this one is a fearsome crit-seeking machine — though it can easily punch its own holes if need be.  }:)

  Lastly (for TRO3075, anyway), we have a ‘mystery’ refit that was first showcased by a small, no-name-given mercenary command’s pirate-bashing operation over the Lyran world of Arcadia in 3071.  Now, I’d imagine that the Eagle has always been very popular with the cost-conscious mercenary market — not only for its efficacy as a weapons system in its own right, but also for its reasonable capital-purchase requirements, all-energy armament for no ammo-replenishment bills, and use of readily available parts and components minimising supply difficulties and repair bills — and with the new availability of foundtech systems for those who have the right connections or bank-balances, relatively modest upgrades can achieve impressive results.
EGL-R11: 75t, 6/9/8/5 (300SFE), 80/52/40 (Standard), N: ERPPC, ML, W: LPL, ML, A: ML, 15DHS
  By its very nature as a pull-out/plug-in sort of upgrade for those who can get the needed bits and pieces, this is quick-and-affordable, but it does what every good merc wants: gives a good (hell, *great*!) ‘return on investment’.  With an ERPPC to open the ball at Long range (and hopefully cause some early TACs), large pulsers in the wings for the dogfight phase (where their combination of Medium range, TH bonus, and 9-point armour-piercing whack brings them into their own), and some medium lasers for ’follow-up’ crit-seeking in the ground-attack role, this is a *hell* of a good weapons-package — and if Lockheed aren’t already offering it on the open mercenary market as a refit-kit or new construction, they’re betraying their Lyran heritage by missing a golden opportunity for profit.  Considering that people are clamouring for *anything* with which to nobble the WoBblies, a bird this capable that prices out to a hair over 4.5M C-bills per-unit is going to sell faster than Lockheed can frakkin’ *make* ’em.  :D
  (Just... be mindful of the heat-gauge when you’re considering using that ER peeper, okay?  Especially in a turning fight.  Fifteen freezers are good, but they can’t cover *all* of your Medium-range heat.  :D)

Quote from: Historical: Operation KLONDIKE, p.160
Aerospace Fighters
Upgrades for the SLDF’s aerospace forces came in the latter half of the 28th century, though with much reduced funding compared to what the Star League dedicated to upgrading the ’Mech service. The program was interrupted by Amaris’ coup, shutting down the SLDF’s access to most of its key production facilities. As the Amaris Civil War progressed, and the SLDF’s losses mounted, Kerensky turned to suppliers the Star League hadn’t typically utilized.

Quote from: Historical: Operation KLONDIKE, p.161
EGL-R6b Eagle: As Kerensky’s drive on Terra waged on and on, it was clear the SLDF required planes that could be both dogfighters as well as ground-attack fighters. The Eagle, produced in both the Free Worlds League and the Federated Suns, seemed to fit the bill, especially with the upgrades requested. An XL fusion engine and twenty-two double heat sinks provided all of the power of the original Eagle and nearly ideal heat dissipation. All of the forward-mounted lasers were replaced with pulse lasers, with a second medium pulse added to the nose, and the single rear-mounted medium laser was doubled. Fourteen and a half tons of ferro-aluminum armor made the Eagle one of the best-protected fighters of the era.
  ... erm, shouldn’t that have been ‘raged’ on?  Wars rage or they are wagedMeh — I should’ve spotted that sooner.  I hope it was corrected before Operation KLONDIKE came out in DTF...  :D  Remember, everyone: spell-check and Grammarly are useful, but even they miss things, so cultivate good proof-readers whenever you can.  ;D

EGL-R6b: 75t, 6/9/8/5 (300XLFE), 85/65/41 (FA)†, N: LPL, 2xMPL, W: LPL, MPL, A: 2xML, 22 DHS
  † The RS says the armour is 85/65/41, so if the armour-tonnage is right, the RS seems to have four points adrift somewhere.  I’m not aware that that’s been errata’d, either.  ;)
  ... holy shaznak.  More laser-light than a Pink Floyd tour.  :o
  For all that, this is another case of ‘the same, but more’ — again, THAF engineers were smart enough not to try and turn the Eagle into something it wasn’t, but to make it better at what it was.  I won’t resurrect the issue of the XL engines and their provenance — though the same problems raised by the Sabre are just as present (and galling) — but leaving those aside, this is a very conscious use of the technology.  The XLFE and DHS save weight and improve the heat-curve, and thanks to judicious abuse exploitation canny appraisal of the aerospace range-brackets, the pulse-lasers mean that not only do you not lose any effective range in aerospace combat, their TH bonus means you’re effectively engaging at a range-bracket closer than you physically are!  The added damage doesn’t hurt (you) any, either, and again lets players involved with a “Royal Eagle” treat the machine just like the old one, only tougher, more accurate, and slightly harder-hitting.  I certainly don’t envy any pilot who tries dogfighting this thing... and woe betide the ’Mech that gets strafed by one.  xp

  About the only tweak one might apply to the Royal Eagle would be to trade in the twin MLs aft for another MPL, mainly for the sake of proper commonality of weaponry more than for any mechanical benefit.  I’d leave that more to the individual player’s taste — some prefer having two chances to hit for *some* damage than one fairly solid whack with a TH bonus.  [shrug]



  :brew: WORKSHOP THREAD  :brew:
« Last Edit: 06 December 2022, 07:39:28 by Trace Coburn »

Scrollreader

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #1 on: 06 December 2022, 09:02:46 »
This is excellent article timing, as I'm trying to put together the ASF portion of my Op: Klondike force.  The royal Eagle looks like a very solid dogfighter with some serious ground attack chops as well. 

I'm also a fan of the looks, asterisk wing setup and all.   :thumbsup:

I know not everyone uses quirks, and ASF haven't in many cases been updated, but does the various fluff (particularly the older stuff I don't have access to) suggest any in particular?

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #2 on: 06 December 2022, 16:45:27 »
Allow me to be art-i-farts-i and wonder where the mediums are mounted on this brick?  ::)
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #3 on: 06 December 2022, 18:56:52 »
Allow me to be art-i-farts-i and wonder where the mediums are mounted on this brick?  ::)

The mini actually has them. There's a second port under the nose, and a pair of barrels (one large, one small) under each lower wing. Tail gun is in the T. :)

Also, hooray for a new fatwa from Trace!
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #4 on: 06 December 2022, 19:19:26 »
What amazes me about the Eagle is how it takes the name of the real-life fighter jet but none of its beauty  ;D
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #5 on: 06 December 2022, 20:28:45 »
Great to see new Fighter articles coming out, and particularly seeing one of the OG article of the Week posters doing it! I can't add much to the discussion, because I don't understand aerospace rules at all, but I am certainly happy to see new articles anyway.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #6 on: 06 December 2022, 21:17:35 »
  To be fair, this column’s very far from ‘new’ — the original version went up on 18 June 2008, and I fully intended to re-post it after the Forum Hack of 2011.  But as time went on, FotW got more and more to the point where it was more like a job than an entertainment, and like a failing alarm-siren, I just... ran out of hoots to give.  I’ve still got a deep backlog of columns that never did get reposted after the Hack, and I’m going to try to remedy that, but I need to apologise to the OCD types in advance: it’ll be happening in no particular order, as interest and time allow.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #7 on: 06 December 2022, 21:44:52 »
Either way, it's good to you back to posting.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #8 on: 06 December 2022, 21:47:19 »
... the Forum Hack of 2011.

Wait, that makes no sense. How could the great crash be eleven years ago, when we're only a handful of years past the Nineties?
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #9 on: 06 December 2022, 23:45:00 »
What amazes me about the Eagle is how it takes the name of the real-life fighter jet but none of its beauty  ;D

That's because the ORIGINAL Eagle was designed by a civilization that had the lostech item "Wind Tunnel", and the lost concepts of "Aerodynamics"-both concepts long extinct sometime before the Age of War, even, while the Marik-designed and produced "Eagle" relies, instead of on scientifically sound aerodynamic principles, the overwhelming power and glory of hyperadvanced-near-magical materials science and the power of a Fusion Engine(tm)!!!! to brutalize atmospheres it passes through without burning up or exploding.  (*thoough how it can NOT be flattening everything below it at altitudes of less than 5000 feet via supersonic shockwaves is something of an accomplishment that is unlikely to be acknowledged.)
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #10 on: 07 December 2022, 00:16:22 »
That's because the ORIGINAL Eagle was designed by a civilization that had the lostech item "Wind Tunnel", and the lost concepts of "Aerodynamics"-both concepts long extinct sometime before the Age of War, even, while the Marik-designed and produced "Eagle" relies, instead of on scientifically sound aerodynamic principles, the overwhelming power and glory of hyperadvanced-near-magical materials science and the power of a Fusion Engine(tm)!!!! to brutalize atmospheres it passes through without burning up or exploding.  (*thoough how it can NOT be flattening everything below it at altitudes of less than 5000 feet via supersonic shockwaves is something of an accomplishment that is unlikely to be acknowledged.)

Harsh Cannonshop.  After all the predecessor to the Eagle was the F-4 Phantom.  Widely accepted as some engineer deciding to prove you could make a brick fly if you put enough thrust behind it.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #11 on: 07 December 2022, 00:43:25 »
Harsh Cannonshop.  After all the predecessor to the Eagle was the F-4 Phantom.  Widely accepted as some engineer deciding to prove you could make a brick fly if you put enough thrust behind it.

Compare the F-4 to the Marik-designed "Eagle", and note: the comparison makes the Phantom II look outright sleek and slick by comparison, given the F-4's swept wings, pointed nose, and lack of broad, blunt, ninety-degree surfaces facing forward on an airframe designed to exceed the speed of sound while passing through atmosphere.  that the Eagle makes the Phantom look like an F-104 in terms of forward motion, or like an F-16 when discussing fitment for turning and maneuvering at speed?  ought to suggest your counter-example is...not as great as you think.  The Eagle makes an A-10 look svelte and slick by comparison, until you get to the published numbers-which suggests the Eagle might well have a sonic shocwave result somewhat similar to the Thunderscreech.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #12 on: 07 December 2022, 03:51:26 »
A great fighter I like from a stats POV. And I do NOT like at all for its looks. Weapon-wise I prefer it over the Slayer by a large margin, but for looks I will take a Slayer ever time.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #13 on: 07 December 2022, 06:29:24 »
  I’m going to try to remedy that, but I need to apologise to the OCD types in advance: it’ll be happening in no particular order, as interest and time allow.

I can absolutely understand how motivation can just ... run out.   And there shouldn't be any pressure,  but even before I knew anything about anything but the giant stompy robots, I always appreciated your articles.   There was flavor, and backstory, and most importantly *context*.

  Well before I was ever brave enough to add ASF to my games, things like your Force Overviews, or remarking on how Helm or REVIVAL suddenly made an airframe obsolete,  or changed the role it can fill on the battlefield were super helpful to understanding the battle before the battle (for Air Superiority) and got me more invested in first describing,  and then adding ASF and CF elements to my games.

Thank you for all the articles you have already given us, and it's great to see another one!

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #14 on: 07 December 2022, 07:17:04 »
A great fighter I like from a stats POV. And I do NOT like at all for its looks. Weapon-wise I prefer it over the Slayer by a large margin, but for looks I will take a Slayer ever time.

The Slayer is one of my favorite Inner Sphere fighters for its looks - it looks like it can actually fly!  I agree that the Eagle's armament is nothing to ignore, though.  I think the Royal Eagle is like a better Shiva Prime.

I'd love for the original Inner Sphere aerospace fighters to get an art refresh to make them less like bricks.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #15 on: 07 December 2022, 11:40:43 »
My favorite fighter.   ^-^
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #16 on: 07 December 2022, 12:09:34 »
The Slayer is one of my favorite Inner Sphere fighters for its looks - it looks like it can actually fly!  I agree that the Eagle's armament is nothing to ignore, though.  I think the Royal Eagle is like a better Shiva Prime.

I'd love for the original Inner Sphere aerospace fighters to get an art refresh to make them less like bricks.

The big problem is that the 'look' is SO established.  Figuring out how to make it look like something designed...by someone who's at least heard of streamlining or a wind-tunnel would completely destroy the iconic look it's had for what are now GENERATIONS of players and fans.

It'd be a bit like trying to make a TIE fighter look like an aircraft that flies, instead of...well...a TIE fighter.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #17 on: 07 December 2022, 16:20:49 »
According to the X-wing series, the TIE is aerodynamic going forward, up, and down . . . which is why in atmo you get it into a turning battle, cause it drags.

In all seriousness . . . yeah, I think a LOT of the original to mid period BT fighters were based on the Phantom paradigm- though yeah, it is fine for aero.   A LOT more of the recent fighters look more the part.  I mean I could see some places where the Eagle could get rounded off, but it is still going to have more projections than current fighters b/c you need to blend the look . . .

Really though, it's looks would lead to negative quirks IMO to give it problems in atmo compared to some of the more aerodynamic fighters.  Which considering control rolls are a ASF's bane in atmo are serious enough.

I also think this is one fighter that does not obviously suffer under the various aero rule changes like some that have NARC or weird rear-firing weapons arrays.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #18 on: 07 December 2022, 17:03:26 »
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #19 on: 07 December 2022, 17:21:33 »
THE 90S WERE RECENT. FIGHT ME. ;)
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #20 on: 07 December 2022, 21:32:10 »
It'd be a bit like trying to make a TIE fighter look like an aircraft that flies, instead of...well...a TIE fighter.

How DARE you suggest that Bernoulli's Principle doesn't generate lift from a fluid flowing over an airfoil perpendicular to the ground!   ;D

But I understand where you're coming from.  It's like if a Timber Wolf suddenly didn't look like how it did over the past 30 years because of some art refresh!
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #21 on: 07 December 2022, 21:52:30 »
NO U: The Oughts Were!
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #22 on: 07 December 2022, 22:10:45 »
How DARE you suggest that Bernoulli's Principle doesn't generate lift from a fluid flowing over an airfoil perpendicular to the ground!   ;D

But I understand where you're coming from.  It's like if a Timber Wolf suddenly didn't look like how it did over the past 30 years because of some art refresh!

exactly the last point.  The art's been there long enough, that it's an established 'look', making the Aerotech Eagle look like it can fly? is pointless at this point.  It doesn't need to look like it was designed by someone with access to a wind-tunnel, or basic aerodynamic principles, because it coexists in a universe where thirty foot tall bipedal robots are the ultimate surface warfare machine, can do hand-stands and cartwheels, and the square/cubed law is not in effect.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #23 on: 08 December 2022, 00:01:32 »
Fly? Based on the art I thought that they were more like Sky Commanders.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #24 on: 08 December 2022, 02:09:56 »
Frankly, given the attention that ASF and warships have had in canon you could totally change their appearences and most people would not bat an eye.

And given what the artists did with the mechs, I am quite they can certainly impove the looks AND make them much more sensible at the same time without totally breaking with canon.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #25 on: 08 December 2022, 03:20:41 »
... I'm sorry, but the arguments regarding the art for the Eagle are all over the place and it's not even the worst offender in the BTU let alone Sci-fi.

I mean, it's far from the most graceful looking thing but it's not a Thunderbird.

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #26 on: 08 December 2022, 03:33:49 »
Myself, I'm angry at the current looks because the "correct" look to me is the (fairly realistic) original TRO3025 fighter art...

Btw, what’s with all this newfangled stuff from the '90s? BT is the future of the '80s! ;D

EDIT: Should write what I actually mean...
« Last Edit: 09 December 2022, 02:27:02 by Sabelkatten »

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #27 on: 08 December 2022, 08:01:52 »
I didn't think the Eagle was in 3025. My impression was it was first seen as unlabeled art in the original 3057, and then nothing until 3075.
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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #28 on: 08 December 2022, 12:47:20 »
IIRC it's one of the fighters in the AT1 rulebook, and one of the counters should represent it. Unfortunately I lost my rulebook years ago... :'(

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Re: Fighter of the Week, Issue #079 (unified repost) — Eagle
« Reply #29 on: 08 December 2022, 15:51:07 »
I cannot find any artwork that look significantly different so I reached out to a friend who has some hand-me-down BT SB such as Aerotech.

There is no artwork labeled Eagle in the book it self and the stat sheet for the Eagle simply indicates you can use any of 4 silhouette tokens that represent a heavy ASF (I'm sure that never caused any confusion)

While non of the art is labeled, it reuses allot of art from the original TRO: 3025 that came out the same year so all fighter artwork can be identified easily 

From that information I can only deduce that there was never earlier artwork for the Eagle. There was only confusion from the artwork never named which fighter as which, tokens meant to represent multiple fighter and perhaps further confusion as the art for the Eagle was not published until TRO: 3057 in 1996, 10 years after the publication of Aerotech with allot of different art.   

So the Eagle has always looked boxy... still looks better than the Thunderbird... cripes Loose, you made it look like a Koi fish...
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