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Author Topic: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech  (Read 1524 times)

AldanFerrox

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #30 on: 03 August 2022, 13:23:15 »
Huh, Pg 129 per Sarna . . . now we just have to bug TPTB for a RS, lol.  Probably some discussion of that 15 years ago is what led me to have my Chaos March mercs refit the trashed LRM Carriers.

And you don't need to change anything on the chassis. You can just put in two Arrow IV and four tons of ammo. A bit meagre, but its still 10 double salvos. You could also fit two Thumpers, of course.
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Daryk

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #31 on: 03 August 2022, 17:38:58 »
I did a Thumper Goblin, and even commissioned Plog to draw it for me (along with a host of other Goblin variants... linked in my sig block).  ^-^

Seriously awesome collection of pics, Colt!  :thumbsup:

CVB

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #32 on: 03 August 2022, 18:11:07 »
And you don't need to change anything on the chassis. You can just put in two Arrow IV and four tons of ammo. A bit meagre, but its still 10 double salvos. You could also fit two Thumpers, of course.
And of course a single LongTom, or twin Thunderbolt 20/twin Sniper cannon/triple MM10/triple Thumper cannon as different options of poor man's artillery. And if you need more ammo, just attach a self deploying ammo carrier with a trailer hitch, like the M109/M992 combo.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #33 on: 03 August 2022, 18:23:04 »
I did a Thumper Goblin, and even commissioned Plog to draw it for me (along with a host of other Goblin variants... linked in my sig block).  ^-^

Seriously awesome collection of pics, Colt!  :thumbsup:

Lol, pics are easy now days, just have to know what you are looking for in the searches.  Even though I saw training shells and all the other stuff around base I realized others may not have an idea the size nor weight of shells.  When discussing the refinement of 'gunpowder' and the improvement of metallurgy I did forget to mention that one of the differences between mortars and artillery- besides ballistic profiles- is that a mortar actually carries a larger bursting charge for it's size/weight than a artillery shell.  One of the things discovered early on with shells as opposed to cannonballs (which were originally stone!) or grape/cannister is that the same bore pressures that push out against the tube also push in against the shell.  A artillery shell has to stand up to the charge that fires it while mortars with their method of firing do not so they can be thinner skinned to carry more BOOM.
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Daryk

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #34 on: 03 August 2022, 18:26:35 »
Good gouge, thanks!   :thumbsup:

I'm beginning to think the mortar carriers the Swedes made might count in this conversation...  ^-^

SteelRaven

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #35 on: 03 August 2022, 18:50:21 »
I do like Arrow system only because it's so easy to carry but I admittedly never seen it used in game.

Plan as using it for objective play, protect the Long Tom, take out the Long Tom, tag the target for Arty strike.

Tend to play smaller games though with allot of knife fighting. Arty can kill that type of game in more ways than one but that's the difference between games and actual fighting doctrine; you don't play fair in the later. 
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CVB

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #36 on: 03 August 2022, 19:45:19 »
When discussing the refinement of 'gunpowder' and the improvement of metallurgy I did forget to mention that one of the differences between mortars and artillery- besides ballistic profiles- is that a mortar actually carries a larger bursting charge for it's size/weight than a artillery shell.  One of the things discovered early on with shells as opposed to cannonballs (which were originally stone!) or grape/cannister is that the same bore pressures that push out against the tube also push in against the shell.  A artillery shell has to stand up to the charge that fires it while mortars with their method of firing do not so they can be thinner skinned to carry more BOOM.

Very true, historically even between howitzer and cannon. Howitzers, too, could use thinner walled shells for more payload by imparting less pressure on the projectile, and at the same time be noticably lighter than cannon of the same caliber (thinner barrel walls, weaker recoil system and carriage). On the other hand, cannon were superior against armored targets, because they needed thick walled shells anyway for not shattering on hardened steel or concrete, and high muzzle velocity to pierce that armor. The bursting charge of an APHE shell for the behind armor effect was surprisingly small.
All past tense, because modern howitzers surpass barrel length and muzzle velocities of many historical cannon, they are more high angle cannon than classic howitzers (and have therefore largely displaced cannon in the field artillery role).
« Last Edit: 03 August 2022, 19:46:57 by CVB »
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #37 on: 03 August 2022, 19:50:48 »
In general, and I know some of you have strong arguments against it, I have found my best practices with Arty, requires 4 tubes minimum.

what for?

terrain denial.long as I watch my OWN movement with my forward units, four tubes creates a 'beaten zone' that is dangerous for lighter opponent units (infantry, light tanks, light 'mechs) to cross.  (this has actually proven useful, because even if they don't get hit immediately, you can make half a mapsheet of area most players will consciously avoid because they're risk-averse.)

preregistering the best positions for an opponent to site his snipers also works, and with deep (and I mean DEEP) ammo fractions, you can make it cost him to say  'oh it's only a thumper.'

Now, as I said, this isn't a universally held view. MOST prominent forumites who use Arty at all, tend to think 2 is fine, and of course, most of the scenario designers are under the impression that 1 is fine.

but I stick with four tubes, and try to lay down fires that influence my opponent's decision making rather than counting on it to simply win by annihilation.

I agree with you.  I never deploy less than four tubes in my games.  More arty = more fun IMO.  From a game perspective the other side should also have arty.  It gets interesting when you have to decide between counter-battery fire and hitting targets on the map  ^-^
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Daryk

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Re: Here come the guns! Artillery in Battletech
« Reply #38 on: 03 August 2022, 19:52:21 »
For my non-canon units, I use six tubes...  :)