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Author Topic: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms  (Read 2004 times)

grimlock1

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Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« on: 09 November 2017, 11:22:54 »
Are shoulder turrets worth it?  They cost mass and crits.  The only drawback to flippable arms is it hurts on in melee, standing under Tac Ops, and smash 'n grab objectives.
Turrets give torso mounted weapons a 300 degree field of fire, but a regular arm mounted weapon can match that with a torso twist.

On the other hand, turrets can give you defense against backstabbers without locking any weapons to the rear...
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

garhkal

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #1 on: 09 November 2017, 17:33:01 »
Personally i prefer flippable arms as you get TWO lots of weapons going into the rear!
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Nightsong

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #2 on: 09 November 2017, 17:42:07 »
I can see one edgecase where turrets would be handy, in cases of 'Mechs that have split crits on, say, an LB20-X or Arrow-IV mostly in the arms, since your arcs get restricted in those cases.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #3 on: 09 November 2017, 17:53:09 »
IIRC, you cannot flip arms and torso twist in the same turn.

garhkal

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #4 on: 10 November 2017, 02:04:03 »
I can see one edgecase where turrets would be handy, in cases of 'Mechs that have split crits on, say, an LB20-X or Arrow-IV mostly in the arms, since your arcs get restricted in those cases.

True you can't flip with split crits..  BUT if you have split crits anyway, you wouldn't have a need to get rid of the hand/lower arm actuators..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #5 on: 10 November 2017, 12:09:39 »
I am strongly in favour of turrets. Not that I actually had a chance to use them, but the concept.
It allows a mech with full arms, with all the advantages you called, to still have weapons pointing wherever, and then there is obviously the question of "why not both"?
Hands help standing up, and if your arms are not full, provide additional criticals that could be hit.
Further, with a multi-target mech, or strong pilot, a turret would allow a large engagement angle while still keeping the main battery pointed forward.
Finally, there's the advantages it could provide in AS.
Of course, the costs aren't always worth it, but at worst it's a crit and 1.5 tons, the heaviest mechs normally have that.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

grimlock1

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #6 on: 13 November 2017, 19:26:51 »
One area that could really shine for turrets is AMS.  It does have a 60 degree blind spot, but certainly better than any other mount besides a head or quad turret.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

garhkal

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #7 on: 14 November 2017, 01:33:05 »
But doesn't AMS already strike out against any missile attack, regardless of the arc its coming from?  So in essence it already is turret mounted.
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Firesprocket

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #8 on: 14 November 2017, 02:02:28 »
AMS only triggers if the missiles are incoming from a valid arc.  Per TW 129:

Any time a Missile Weapon (see p. 113) makes a successful
to-hit attack against a unit carrying an AMS, and the missile
weapon strikes in the attack direction covered by the firing
arc where the AMS is mounted, the AMS will automatically
engage with the following results:



SCC

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #9 on: 14 November 2017, 03:47:32 »
AMS should really be treated as if it was in a turret already.

garhkal

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #10 on: 14 November 2017, 15:51:05 »
AMS only triggers if the missiles are incoming from a valid arc.  Per TW 129:

Any time a Missile Weapon (see p. 113) makes a successful
to-hit attack against a unit carrying an AMS, and the missile
weapon strikes in the attack direction covered by the firing
arc where the AMS is mounted, the AMS will automatically
engage with the following results:


Seems that was something changed from the days of the old btech compendium..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Firesprocket

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #11 on: 15 November 2017, 01:41:37 »
It is indeed a change from the way it used to be back in that book. The description oh how the AMS works in the compendium is more or less as you recall it.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #12 on: 15 November 2017, 08:02:26 »
Can AMS even be installed in a turret?
On a mech, I mean.
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

grimlock1

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #13 on: 15 November 2017, 18:27:04 »
Can AMS even be installed in a turret?
On a mech, I mean.
Tac Ops doesn't have any restrictions in the construction rules for mech turrets...
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

LastChanceCav

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #14 on: 15 November 2017, 20:55:38 »
I generally prefer to save the mass and crits and avoid turrets on bipeds, but they are very worth it on mechs with no arms to flip.

Cheers,
LCC
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Siden Pryde

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #15 on: 15 November 2017, 21:16:15 »
I generally prefer to save the mass and crits and avoid turrets on bipeds, but they are very worth it on mechs with no arms to flip.

Cheers,
LCC
Agreed.  Unless I have a good reason not to, I use turrets on all my quad mech designs.  Sometimes even give it the 4-ton Tripod cockpit so it can have a dedicated gunner (against the construction rules, I know, but I don't care).

grimlock1

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Re: Shoulder Turrets v Flippable arms
« Reply #16 on: 15 November 2017, 22:18:11 »
Despite all these cogent arguments, there's a part of me that still does a little squee when I tinker with packing a Timby D's Streaks into turrets.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

 

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