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Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Turkina  (Read 40101 times)

SteelRaven

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #120 on: 27 March 2022, 23:36:31 »
... and its parts don't look like modular or shared with other OmniMechs, original 16 or otherwise.

but that's been a problem for most Clan Omni's post TRO: 3050.
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wantec

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #121 on: 28 March 2022, 09:57:36 »
Never particularly liked Turkina despite having been a Jade Falcon fan (and a Nova Cat one, another Turkina user). Art being the primary issue, one that the new art does nothing to change because the base design is still a saucer with legs, and its parts don't look like modular or shared with other OmniMechs, original 16 or otherwise.
This is a bit odd as i like the original King Crab (i don't like the new one at all) and it can be seen as a saucer with legs. Perhaps the Turkina needs a King Crab-like configuration and a variant miniature to match, might change my mind about the 'Mech.
Well the Turkina A (2x Gauss, 2x LRM20) is pretty similar to the KGC-000b (2x Gauss, LRM 15, LL) and the KGC-0001 (2x Gauss, LRM15, LPL). Or were you thinking the double-20-class cannons?
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #122 on: 28 March 2022, 10:30:03 »
but that's been a problem for most Clan Omni's post TRO: 3050.
Yes, yes it has been and still is. Don't like that. Fortunately newer art does generally unify style so these issues aren't as glaring, but i still wish for far more "common building blocks".

Well the Turkina A (2x Gauss, 2x LRM20) is pretty similar to the KGC-000b (2x Gauss, LRM 15, LL) and the KGC-0001 (2x Gauss, LRM15, LPL). Or were you thinking the double-20-class cannons?
Double-20s would be wonderful, not exactly common combination anywhere, but double-Gausses are good*. One problem with the A is that i don't particularly like the missile launchers visually on the Turkina, they maybe one reason i don't particularly like the Turkina's design, the King Crab has flatter and cleaner looks.
And there's no Turkina A miniature.

...Turns out the original Turkina miniature has official C variant? Huh, like that better looking than Prime.

*As long as one ignores the fact that Clan ERPPCs are nearly always better. Especially here because the Turkina's heat capacity is not used up.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #123 on: 28 March 2022, 11:36:16 »
Yes, yes it has been and still is. Don't like that. Fortunately newer art does generally unify style so these issues aren't as glaring, but i still wish for far more "common building blocks".

Most modular/plug&play stuff does not change complete housings . . . it is about the internal space & mounting brackets, and then they have a custom face plate at times to seal of the housing.  Omni-tech being 'take the right arm off a Timber Wolf and put it on a Summoner' was not what Omni was about, rather 'take the ERPPC from the Timber Wolf's arm and the mounting bracket (pod), and install it in the Summoner's arm housing.  Plug in the power & coolant universal connector/coupling, update the gyro, and go."
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #124 on: 28 March 2022, 11:52:02 »
Considering that OmniMechs mount equipment in pods, i think housings (ie pods) should share far more similarities than they do right now. The original 16 do that more than others, especially IWM's resculpts.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #125 on: 28 March 2022, 12:36:46 »
Except that is not what the pods are . . . the pods are the universal mounting system- its like the rails hard drives and other hardware that get put into a CPU.  It is not a 'pod' like you get the PPC on the end of the Marauder's arm.  All the 'pod' is, is a housing that sets around the equipment or weapon's unique mounting and converts it to a standard system while taking unique ammo, coolant, and power feeds; converting those to a standardized system.  It is why it takes time to put a weapon or equipment in a pod- or to remove it safely from a pod.
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Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #126 on: 28 March 2022, 14:11:00 »
And standardized pods would look identical where possible, including external housing. Mad Cat missile pods, Loki missile pod, Mad Cat and Loki arm pods that house PPCs or lasers being perfect examples. Obviously not all things can be done like that, and there must be pods that fit within a 'Mech's torso which presumably would be little more than a frame and interfaces, but many weapons are evidently externally located (no comment how BT's armor magically manifests over them...).

Why are the Turkina's missile pods not like the Mad Cat's? Other OmniMechs do use such pods, such as Loki A or H (based on IWM models), not just the Mad Cat.
Wouldn't be a visual improvement probably but would make more sense as OmniMechs are.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #127 on: 28 March 2022, 15:00:34 »
Because the pods are all the stuff inside the armor shell with one surface that is variable b/c it is what seals up the opening for firing.  So, really a Timber Wolf A's 3 MPLs on one side and Streaks on the other should both still be sitting in the same type boxes as the LRMs on the Prime/C & the SSRMs on the D.

Because if you take the arm off a Timber Wolf and put it on a Summoner or better yet a Nova . . . well, the armor & structure are made up of different materials and have different values.

The Timber Wolf A that looks like-


Is artistic license that does not reflect how the tech is described in rules or fiction.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #128 on: 28 March 2022, 17:21:51 »
Because the pods are all the stuff inside the armor shell with one surface that is variable b/c it is what seals up the opening for firing.
This part doesn't make much sense to me, as there are weapons that obviously cannot fit certain places and locations in some 'Mechs, and there are weapons like Arrow IV that most likely need to be split across two locations, a Vulture V cannot cram an AIV in its right torso bay alone, not stats-wise, probably not physically.
And fiction/fluff actually describes OmniMechs looking radically different depending on the configuration. The Vulture C was noted as being thought a different OmniMech at first by Spheroids on the account of its torso bays being very different from Vulture Prime, per description of TRO3050 (original) (though that one implies the Gauss rifles are in torso and ammo in arms, while the record sheet has always placed the guns in arms). Incidentally TRO3050U describes the Vulture's torso bays "being practically modules themselves", implying some configurations omit or alter them radically.
Were pods purely internal, these descriptions makes no sense whatsoever.

I can grant that miniatures are effectively artistic license... but even official art does depict things different. The WoB Celestials have three pieces of art each, one for Invictus, Dominus and Infernus configurations. These all have differences that alter the outline of the 'Mech rather than fitting everything within Prime/Invictus-shape.

Then there are melee weapons, that are magically protected by armor but surely aren't fit within existing housings.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #129 on: 28 March 2022, 22:01:30 »
Marketing man, marketing...  It's uncouth to show up at the local game store with last edition's minis :P  You can't tell who's with it and who ain't without changes to the design periodically :)




SteelRaven

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #130 on: 28 March 2022, 22:28:24 »
The WoB Celestials have three pieces of art each, one for Invictus, Dominus and Infernus configurations. These all have differences that alter the outline of the 'Mech rather than fitting everything within Prime/Invictus-shape.

The Turkina was first made in RL way before that was a thing. While IWM is making multipul version of each omni when they can, this is a aesthetic argument and this usually leads no where.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #131 on: 28 March 2022, 22:53:34 »
There's a Turkina C mini.

It's kind of ugly and lacking in details.
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SteelRaven

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #132 on: 29 March 2022, 01:10:16 »
I always thought that was a bash :(
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #133 on: 31 March 2022, 06:08:21 »
With regards to the Turkinas LRM launchers, I'd assume they were different ones from the Mad Cat type because the Mad Cat's are very tall launchers, perhaps with the Turkina they were trying to reduce the 'Mechs profile or something as a design?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #134 on: 31 March 2022, 10:50:58 »
the turkina's launchers are also LRM 15s to the timby's 20s

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #135 on: 31 March 2022, 16:11:25 »
Because the pods are all the stuff inside the armor shell with one surface that is variable b/c it is what seals up the opening for firing.

That's how I remember it when I first read about it in the mid 90s. Omni technology was just a universal mounting system and weapons and equipment were designed to mount directly to it.

I always pictured something like an energized peg board that held equipment in place and delivered power while also making convenient hand holds for battle armor.

The whole omni-pod thing feels like a new, almost incorrect, interpretation because the whole point of omnis was that they were mission configurable and easy to make custom loadouts. You can't do that if you're replacing entire body segments with standardized weapon configurations, that aren't mass balanced either.

Empyrus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #136 on: 31 March 2022, 17:47:53 »
You can't do that if you're replacing entire body segments with standardized weapon configurations, that aren't mass balanced either.
Expect part of the OmniMagic has always been that the OmniMech gyro can configure itself on the fly for this. Though as someone noted once, normal gyros have no problems with a 'Mech losing a side torso and an arm after maybe falling once...
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #137 on: 31 March 2022, 19:14:29 »
Expect part of the OmniMagic has always been that the OmniMech gyro can configure itself on the fly for this. Though as someone noted once, normal gyros have no problems with a 'Mech losing a side torso and an arm after maybe falling once...

The gyro isn't the problem. The problem is that one left torso has X tons of equipment and the other has Y. They wouldn't be interchangeable, thus defeating the purpose of omni tech. This just reinforces that the omni pod system has nothing to do with actual body parts and is likely just a commonly used bundle of equipment that can, theoretically, be mounted into any omnimech.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #138 on: 01 April 2022, 10:24:58 »
Because the pods are all the stuff inside the armor shell with one surface that is variable b/c it is what seals up the opening for firing.  So, really a Timber Wolf A's 3 MPLs on one side and Streaks on the other should both still be sitting in the same type boxes as the LRMs on the Prime/C & the SSRMs on the D.

Because if you take the arm off a Timber Wolf and put it on a Summoner or better yet a Nova . . . well, the armor & structure are made up of different materials and have different values.

The Timber Wolf A that looks like-


Is artistic license that does not reflect how the tech is described in rules or fiction.

Although Lewis' OmniMech configurations are considered canon as far as I know and look similar?


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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #139 on: 01 April 2022, 12:01:06 »
This could be one of those cases where the different manufacturers of Clan omni weapons matter. Brand A is a square-shaped box LRM launcher (Timber Wolf), while Brand B is more of a flattened rectangle (Turkina/Mad Dog), and Brand C is a round drum shape (Summoner/Crossbow). All are still omni-pod weapons and if they were the same size all could be interchangeable, just providing different looks.

Oh and now I just had a mental image of a Timber Wolf with Summoner/Crossbow racks instead of square ones. Mad Cat turned into Mickey Mouse
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #140 on: 02 April 2022, 04:26:05 »
Wasn't the Bane based on the King Crab? So a bane 3 with its double ultra 20s is, what you should look for if you want double 20s. Or just take a hunchback IIC ;)
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #141 on: 02 April 2022, 15:02:31 »
Great review, and agreed!


In order I still think the three best Assaults are the Dire Wolf, Turkina, and Stone Rhino (for some reason no one loves the Stone Rhino).


I wonder how widely available the Turkina was outside of Jade Falcon in 3052?
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #142 on: 02 April 2022, 15:10:19 »
In 3052? The introduction date is 3052, so not much, I'd expect.

But MUL has Clan Invasion era availability limited to Jade Falcons, Nova Cats, and Smoke Jaguars, so that is indicative at least.

And I love the Stone Rhino. At least from the mini side. Looks good at any angle, and the mods are fun. The new sculpt fixes the only problem with the Unseen - it's in motion!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #143 on: 02 April 2022, 15:15:09 »
Great review, and agreed!


In order I still think the three best Assaults are the Dire Wolf, Turkina, and Stone Rhino (for some reason no one loves the Stone Rhino).


I wonder how widely available the Turkina was outside of Jade Falcon in 3052?

The Iron Cheetah or my Blood Asp would want a word or two with you;)
« Last Edit: 04 April 2022, 09:06:13 by Coldstone »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #144 on: 02 April 2022, 16:15:29 »
In 3052? The introduction date is 3052, so not much, I'd expect.

But MUL has Clan Invasion era availability limited to Jade Falcons, Nova Cats, and Smoke Jaguars, so that is indicative at least.

And I love the Stone Rhino. At least from the mini side. Looks good at any angle, and the mods are fun. The new sculpt fixes the only problem with the Unseen - it's in motion!
Yeah, I thought that the Nova Cat touman included them in 3052, even though I _think_ the Turkina didn't make it's first appearance until Tukayyid (which admittedly was only in May), but that may not be accurate.

Yeah, the new sculpts for the Stone Rhino are amazing! My Alpha galaxy keshik is mostly Dires, Turkinas, and Rhinos.  >:D
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #145 on: 02 April 2022, 16:41:29 »
While we should probably share Stone Rhino stories elsewhere, I will ask - is anyone considering removing the missile packs from the KS Turkina mini? I'd love to hear how you plan to do it. Got to get more Turkina configs on the table!
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #146 on: 02 April 2022, 21:16:10 »
Yeah, I thought that the Nova Cat touman included them in 3052, even though I _think_ the Turkina didn't make it's first appearance until Tukayyid (which admittedly was only in May), but that may not be accurate.

I want to say you are correct. The third book of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy is the first mention of a Turkina I can remember. IIRC the pilot held his ground and eventually died. The Jade Falcon character who's perspective the passage is written from notes that they were firing relentlessly up until their mech went up.

While we should probably share Stone Rhino stories elsewhere, I will ask - is anyone considering removing the missile packs from the KS Turkina mini? I'd love to hear how you plan to do it. Got to get more Turkina configs on the table!

I had not planned on it but if I did, it would involve a Dremel, A healthy amount of sanding/filing, and some wood filler to smooth it out.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #147 on: 03 April 2022, 11:06:22 »
It would be interesting to see a Turkina use the launchers of a Mad Dog placed horizontal like wings but that is bashing beyond my skill set. I for one and happy with the current look.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #148 on: 03 April 2022, 17:35:01 »
But MUL has Clan Invasion era availability limited to Jade Falcons, Nova Cats, and Smoke Jaguars, so that is indicative at least.

Warden Wolves should at least have it, perhaps the Crusaders too.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Turkina
« Reply #149 on: 23 April 2022, 20:26:42 »
Looks and sounds a bit like logistics hell.  With the birds killing the protomech program not just dead, but Raid dead... those Prac-8's are going to be a pain to resupply and repair in the field.  The HAG-40 and 6xSSRM6 machine is just asking to get the supply lines cut.  And the LBX2/5 LRM5 machine... erghh...since B'tech seems to load missiles in en bloc clips (i.e. LRM5 ammo different from LRM20, despite LRMs being LRMs), has three different types of ammo to manage, with two of them being very uncommon.

Terrible logistics hurts, you can see that from days gone by right up to today.  What may seem "short" can be very, very long in hostile country.  The more material that has to be moved by logistics folks, and the more variety of materials, the more difficult it becomes.  And, if you don't properly prepare for the logistics mess, i.e. by preventing the natives from destroying transportation infrastructure, for example, the bigger the issue. Pure ammo dependent versions are helpless without a logistic train, and some of the others require bringing ammo along that doesn't fit with a lot of other units.

Why is it that these newer designs get stranger and stranger, and don't really take into account the lessons that should have been learned during the initial invasion?
I'm pretty sure the Ts are just meant to visually mimic the Primes, for people who want to play WYSIWYG.  Not much reason to dig farther in that that.
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