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Author Topic: MotW repost: Linebacker  (Read 16432 times)

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #60 on: 07 June 2021, 06:32:41 »
I've never been a fan of the Linebacker.  I'd take the Stormcrow over it every time.  But to be fair it's hard for anything to beat the Stormcrow in terms of efficiency.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #61 on: 07 June 2021, 09:39:20 »
A single crit chance is extremely unlikely to cripple a mech, though, while 3-4 can destroy it outright.  If you're already in a back arc, better to go for the significant impact because you may not get another opportunity from that direction.

First round in the back arc,  I think I'd probably leave the Arrays on, if for no other reason than to open up a couple holes in the rear armor.

True I might not get another chance, but SOMEONE else might & having a couple different open areas starts to get real scary looking once the lines have merged.
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SteelRaven

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #62 on: 07 June 2021, 11:15:49 »
I've never been a fan of the Linebacker.  I'd take the Stormcrow over it every time.  But to be fair it's hard for anything to beat the Stormcrow in terms of efficiency.

Keep in mind the Wolves didn't have production rights to the Storm Crow so another design to fill the same role when one wasn't available makes sense. The Storm Crow is better Mech but you need something new for the next TRO, right?
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BATTLEMASTER

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #63 on: 07 June 2021, 11:36:30 »
The Storm Crow is better Mech but you need something new for the next TRO, right?

So true!  Not unlike the fan-created MWO slogan "Wanna buy a 'mech pack?"   ;D

I'll give the Linebacker chassis credit for being something that wasn't done before on a heavy 'mech, though.
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Hellraiser

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #64 on: 07 June 2021, 12:12:58 »
Keep in mind the Wolves didn't have production rights to the Storm Crow so another design to fill the same role when one wasn't available makes sense. The Storm Crow is better Mech but you need something new for the next TRO, right?

That has never been confirmed true has it?

TRO3050 has the Storm Crow production listed as "Various" which given the other mech locations means it probably had no less than 4 different factories & is widely available for purchase/trade by any/all clans.

IIRC, All we know is the Wolves wanted a "Heavy" mech that could keep up with "Striker" formations.   (And a new TRO needed to be made for $$$)

The Wolves clearly had their reasons & I imagine they couldn't have converted/constructed a factory over to a completely new mech any easier than a mech they already had at least "some" access to, if not "easy" access.  So it had to be they wanted something bigger & newer.   (And you know, TRO sales > IC Logic)

OOC we know they needed a TRO mech, my only real complaint is that they didn't make it a 60 Ton mech with MASC for 2 tons.
I think that would have been better than a 4th 65 ton Clan Omni.  (Yes, I know they were not all out yet when this appeared)

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #65 on: 07 June 2021, 12:15:12 »
I'll give the Linebacker chassis credit for being something that wasn't done before on a heavy 'mech, though.
Technically I think the SLDF Exterminator beat it out,  if you mean 6/9 Heavy mech that is.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #66 on: 07 June 2021, 12:25:31 »
That has never been confirmed true has it?

TRO3050 has the Storm Crow production listed as "Various" which given the other mech locations means it probably had no less than 4 different factories & is widely available for purchase/trade by any/all clans.

IIRC, All we know is the Wolves wanted a "Heavy" mech that could keep up with "Striker" formations.   (And a new TRO needed to be made for $$$)

The Wolves clearly had their reasons & I imagine they couldn't have converted/constructed a factory over to a completely new mech any easier than a mech they already had at least "some" access to, if not "easy" access.  So it had to be they wanted something bigger & newer.   (And you know, TRO sales > IC Logic)

OOC we know they needed a TRO mech, my only real complaint is that they didn't make it a 60 Ton mech with MASC for 2 tons.
I think that would have been better than a 4th 65 ton Clan Omni.  (Yes, I know they were not all out yet when this appeared)

Sure maybe they did in 3050. But if they had their own production of it it wouldn’t make sense to build the same thing but worse. Plus the Stormcrow was designed by CHH, design was lost to CGB who spread it all over and finished by CSR, it doesn’t make sense wolves would have it.
But after the 70s they had no production at all. And by 3150 it’s made only on Dante by snow ravens.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #67 on: 07 June 2021, 13:26:29 »
Sure maybe they did in 3050. But if they had their own production of it it wouldn’t make sense to build the same thing but worse.

It also doesn't make sense to go through the R&D process at all unless you WANTED a Heavy Mech.

Regardless of their production capability, they shouldn't have had any issues trialing for the Blue Prints in over a century of use at that point.

The only IC reason that makes any sense is they wanted a "Heavy Mech", it doesn't matter that the Medium has the same speed, the simple fact that it their TO&E in Striker stars had slots for "Heavies" & when they used the T-Wolf there it was too slow to keep up with the Adders/Iceferrets (And Stormcrows) also found in those stars.

We are clearly talking about 3050 so mentioning 3150 Ravens means little since we are talking about when/why the Linebacker was created.

The history of the S.Crow creation also means little since we are talking about the Clans & the Wolves, in that time they were the most powerful of the clans, if the Jaguars managed get it at some point & have it as their main line Medium mech in that time then I have little doubt the Wolves could have the same ability to win those blue prints.

Maybe the Wolves produced the S.Crow, maybe they had access through trade, none of which matters really, because they were not replacing their Stormcrows in the touman they were shifting away from the T-Wolf which was too slow for certain units.  (Recon/Striker)

I'm not saying I agree or that the Crow isn't a better mech pound for pound, I'm saying they clearly wanted something bigger than a medium, but, that could still keep up with the Mediums.

The writers gave us a "lesser" design, which is annoying, but also not the first time that has happened.  (See Gargoyle)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Greatclub

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #68 on: 07 June 2021, 13:30:40 »
I propose the "Linebacker rule;" Any discussion of the Linebacker devolves into how inefficient the base frame is and comparisons to the Stormcrow, instead of what the configurations can do.

One thing the linebacker can do that the stormcrow can't - take two 10-pointers to the side torso without a breach. Same with the arms. Half a ton isn't much, but it gets above a couple important thresholds
« Last Edit: 07 June 2021, 19:54:40 by Greatclub »

Hellraiser

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #69 on: 07 June 2021, 14:23:13 »
I propose the "Linebacker rule;" Any discussion of the Linebacker devolves into how inefficient the base frame is, instead of what the configurations can do.

One thing the linebacker can do that the stormcrow can't - take two 10-pointers to the side torso without a breach.

Your not kidding, we do often digress into the old StormCrow/Linebacker, AKA, Timberwolf/Gargoyle comparisons.

And I often point out the added IS & Armor the mech carries for durability.

My favorite configuration has always been the A w/ the added range of the ERLL's, more LRMs, & overall heat efficiency myself.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Kerfuffin(925)

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #70 on: 07 June 2021, 16:50:58 »
Half a ton of armor isn’t gonna save you. The bump in structure might help but by that point you’d hope to have won, which the storm crow would probably have given you a better chance.

I only plan to run it as an A. Might be my first mod just because of that.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #71 on: 07 June 2021, 18:12:31 »
Technically I think the SLDF Exterminator beat it out,  if you mean 6/9 Heavy mech that is.

I forgot that one - thanks!

The Linebacker is a little better at charging than the Stormcrow due to weighing ten tons more  :D
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #72 on: 07 June 2021, 23:05:03 »
I propose the "Linebacker rule;" Any discussion of the Linebacker devolves into how inefficient the base frame is and comparisons to the Stormcrow, instead of what the configurations can do.

that's just one of the laws of the internet- any fan forum will devolve into meaningless nitpicking of what each other likes when given any choices at all.  xp

anyways, i'm quite partial to the H and D for close support- they're just fast enough to give anything trying to break through some hassle and have some very good options dealing with most things used to break through while still being able to  step up hit the front lines if you need reinforcing. No idea what to do with the C besides warcrimes though. not enough of anything to really fight properly...maybe it's for when you have to provide some level of tactical utility to a crazed clanner group? or maybe they were doin' warcrimes?.....
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wantec

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #73 on: 08 June 2021, 14:02:56 »
Keep in mind the Wolves didn't have production rights to the Storm Crow so another design to fill the same role when one wasn't available makes sense. The Storm Crow is better Mech but you need something new for the next TRO, right?
I may be wrong, but I thought the Wolf Clan Sourcebook came before the TRO. The sourcebook had the Pouncer, Phantom, Linebacker, & Naga.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #74 on: 08 June 2021, 16:31:43 »
I may be wrong, but I thought the Wolf Clan Sourcebook came before the TRO. The sourcebook had the Pouncer, Phantom, Linebacker, & Naga.

TRO 3050 = 1990
Wolf Clan Sourcebook = 1991
TRO 3055 = 1992

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

wantec

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #75 on: 09 June 2021, 11:20:39 »
TRO 3050 = 1990
Wolf Clan Sourcebook = 1991
TRO 3055 = 1992
Thanks. So they may have been working on a new TRO already, but I have no clue.
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #76 on: 14 June 2021, 16:30:44 »
First round in the back arc,  I think I'd probably leave the Arrays on, if for no other reason than to open up a couple holes in the rear armor.

Which was the point- 1st firing pass is to remove back armor, 2nd pass unlink the Arrays . . . so instead of rolling 6 chances to hit that exposed location (and for the theoretical crit), you get 20 rolls.  Twenty rolls is going to cover the geometric curve's probabilities better than 6 rolls, both for hits and for crits.  The total damage does not matter since you are fishing for hits on that location that hopefully has a IS XL or ammo- and even throws in that chance for a head hit.

The T is a vehicle/BA killer, not sure why it is getting talked about as damaging mechs . . . point is to flank and get to the softer supporting conventionals the mechs are blocking for on the battlefield.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #77 on: 21 June 2021, 01:45:01 »
Why not compare Linebacker to Exterminator. ;)

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #78 on: 21 June 2021, 09:25:52 »
Why not compare Linebacker to Exterminator. ;)

Because the torsos are better armored?  Because it does not risk a seizure to get the +3 TH?
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