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Author Topic: Old TRO background from the original writers?  (Read 4520 times)

BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #30 on: 16 July 2022, 06:31:37 »
Here are the primary writers for TRO 3050 Revised per Sarna (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_3050_Revised):

J. Andrew Keith
Jim Musser
Clare W. Hess
Dale L. Kemper
Lim Long
Blaine L. Pardoe
Boy F. Petersen, Jr.
Sam Lewis

It seems that Pardoe probably had nothing to do with the UrbanMech, so I'm wondering if the other writers on here might have the answer...  If they can remember it  :P
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nckestrel

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #31 on: 16 July 2022, 07:01:57 »
I know nothing.
But I'm guessing that somebody noted that the original 3050 text might be implying the small laser was replaced with the small pulse laser, so requested the text make it clear it didn't.  And suggested pointing out how small pulse serves an anti-infantry role like the old machine gun...  (meaning the old tech machine gun, not the old machine gun on the UrbanMech that never existed..)

Just guessing based on how sometimes fact check ends up with odd results :)
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Jal Phoenix

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #32 on: 16 July 2022, 10:01:08 »
The line in first and second printings just say "The kit also allows a Magna 200P Small Pulse Laser to be mounted in the 'Mech's chest." It doesn't mention it replacing anything, or giving it any other attributes. It really is a mystery why that line is later added for the Revised book. "This kit also substitutes the Magna 200P small pulse laser for the machine gun, which helps discourage enemy infantry."

Failure16

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #33 on: 16 July 2022, 10:07:49 »
It's also possible that a really old file that didn't make the initial printings somehow got mixed into the new stuff when the revisions were being made. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened in life, and in printing.
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nckestrel

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #34 on: 16 July 2022, 10:12:46 »
It's also possible that a really old file that didn't make the initial printings somehow got mixed into the new stuff when the revisions were being made. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened in life, and in printing.

But that still leaves the question, just moves it back further.  Why did the really old file refer to a machine gun that never existed?
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Failure16

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #35 on: 16 July 2022, 11:14:29 »
I was thinking that it was an original reference that got nixed on edit/fact-check--precisely because it was in/an error.
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Luciora

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #36 on: 16 July 2022, 11:33:51 »
Hey, it only took 30+ years for the Liberator to get stats and art, I'm sure a MG armed Urbanmech will show up eventually.   :D

Failure16

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #37 on: 16 July 2022, 13:50:50 »
Don't get me started; the Libby is a viable design in my world...
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

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BrianDavion

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #38 on: 16 July 2022, 16:45:59 »
Hey, it only took 30+ years for the Liberator to get stats and art, I'm sure a MG armed Urbanmech will show up eventually.   :D

Kinda suprising it doesn't exist TBH. a Urbie with SRMs and a Machine gun would likely be a highly fun varient. you could swap out the weapons for a Machine gun, 3 SRM 6s and attendant ammo very easily making a NAAAASTY ambush platform that could also shred infantry


Failure16

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #39 on: 16 July 2022, 18:32:04 »
It would certainly make a good battle-buddy in an UrbanMech lance. Two hole-puncher's and two crit-seekers.
Thought I might get a rocket ride when I was a child.          We are the wild youth, 
But it was a lie, that I told myself                                          Chasing visions of our futures.
When I needed something good.                                            One day we'll reveal the truth,
At 17, I had a better dream; now I'm 33, and it isn't me.        That one will die before he gets there.

But I'd think of something better if I could
                           --E. Tonra
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Jal Phoenix

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #40 on: 16 July 2022, 19:38:25 »
Kinda suprising it doesn't exist TBH. a Urbie with SRMs and a Machine gun would likely be a highly fun varient. you could swap out the weapons for a Machine gun, 3 SRM 6s and attendant ammo very easily making a NAAAASTY ambush platform that could also shred infantry

But that would mean that the UrbanMech was competently designed. Part of its charm is that it was not.

Jellico

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #41 on: 16 July 2022, 19:55:21 »
Urbies are an exploration in largest gun on smallest Mech and screw everything else. Just like the Charger is fastest possible assault Mech and screw everything else.
Both valid. Arguably both should have not been published.

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #42 on: 22 July 2022, 10:54:09 »
Hey, it only took 30+ years for the Liberator to get stats and art, I'm sure a MG armed Urbanmech will show up eventually.   :D

I'll see what I can do....
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Decoy

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #43 on: 22 July 2022, 11:45:00 »
The mysteries I'm surprised no one are talking about are 1) "What is a Sholgar, exactly?"  and 2) "What is a Shilone, exactly?" Unless I missed something somewhere.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #44 on: 22 July 2022, 14:28:00 »
honestly, you could easily fluff the MG urbie as a common unofficial field refit. replacing the largely superfluous 11th heatsink with the MG and 100 shots. it would just be the CapCon, having the most urbies in service, had enough such refits that they incorporated it into the upgraded model. especially when you consider that the MG would be super useful for the kind of heavy handed 'riot suppression' the Capcon is prone to.

Welshman

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #45 on: 28 July 2022, 10:03:29 »
especially when you consider that the MG would be super useful for the kind of heavy handed 'riot suppression' the Capcon is prone to.

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #46 on: 03 August 2022, 11:10:34 »
[The Dark Knight] Rubber bullets, honest...[/The Dark Knight]

Ferro-rubber, it's LosTech.
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Welshman

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #47 on: 03 August 2022, 12:55:26 »
Ferro-rubber, it's LosTech.

The mind goes in so many wrong directions with this one...
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grimlock1

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #48 on: 11 August 2022, 09:32:03 »
Think it's pretty obvious the Urbie and Charger was someone testing the construction rules followed by ether 'why not put it in the book' or 'we need two more Mechs and they can't be too similar to what we already have.'
I always read them as an attempt at min-maxing.

Urbies are an exploration in largest gun on smallest Mech and screw everything else. Just like the Charger is fastest possible assault Mech and screw everything else.
Both valid. Arguably both should have not been published.
Big gun + small mech works out better later.  The key is to remember that it's still a small mech.  It can't carry enough armor to slug it out with much of anything. Urbie is just not an good execution. Cicada CDA-3C has a learning curve but it's a PPC that moves 12 hexes. 

... Revisions to the pulse lasers + TC rules predated my time in the saddle. I don't recall making any changes based on those units.

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #49 on: 11 August 2022, 09:37:03 »
Pulse lasers used to be able to fire aimed shots and get all the accuracy bonuses. Nowadays you can do aimed shots with pulses but don't get targeting computer's TN bonus for that.

TW changed some stuff, like how AMS functions, and this targeting computer thing.
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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #50 on: 11 August 2022, 09:48:44 »
Turns out, being able to burn a bunch of Clan Large and Medium Pulse Lasers into someone's center torso at a net +1 was not very fun to play against at all.
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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #51 on: 11 August 2022, 10:08:37 »
Pulse lasers used to be able to fire aimed shots and get all the accuracy bonuses. Nowadays you can do aimed shots with pulses but don't get targeting computer's TN bonus for that.

TW changed some stuff, like how AMS functions, and this targeting computer thing.
Thanks.  I forgot about those days...
Turns out, being able to burn a bunch of Clan Large and Medium Pulse Lasers into someone's center torso at a net +1 was not very fun to play against at all.
It's way more fun to square off with somebody packing VDNI+Interface cockpit+AES(or TC)+VSPL at short range. A 7 point targeting bonus?  On second thought, that doesn't sound fun.
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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #52 on: 11 August 2022, 10:41:58 »
Thanks.  I forgot about those days... It's way more fun to square off with somebody packing VDNI+Interface cockpit+AES(or TC)+VSPL at short range. A 7 point targeting bonus?  On second thought, that doesn't sound fun.
At least then you get the benefit of being able to do pilot damage via VDNI feedback checks, and anything to offset that is going to make that already ludicrously expensive unit-pilot combo even more expensive.

Besides, the point wasn't the To-Hit mods themselves, but rather the ability to almost entirely mitigate the To-Hit penalty of TComp aimed shots just by using Pulse Lasers. That wacky Blakist-with-too-much-money build is damn near guaranteed to hit, but the dice could just as easily scatter its hits around to never actually penetrate armor. The benefit of old Pulse Laser/TComp combos, back when they could still make aimed shots with the Pulse bonus, is that you could call an aimed shot and use the Pulse modifier to mitigate the TComp aimed shot modifier. If you're in a situation where your non-pulse weapons are already hitting on, say, 5s, taking the net +1 on your Pulse Lasers and hitting on 6s with a 55.25% chance to hit the center torso with each laser was 100% worth it.
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Paul

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #53 on: 12 August 2022, 20:58:11 »
... Revisions to the pulse lasers + TC rules predated my time in the saddle. I don't recall making any changes based on those units.

It was part of the TW work, (so, Randall) and yes, we definitely looked at the Vapor Eagle/Goshawk and other pulse/TC designs when making that suggestion at the time.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #54 on: 17 August 2022, 22:02:49 »
It was part of the TW work, (so, Randall) and yes, we definitely looked at the Vapor Eagle/Goshawk and other pulse/TC designs when making that suggestion at the time.

And rightly so. The Black Python was banned from our tables in Colorado for a while because it was just too broken. (Granted, we were also playing the targeting computer rules wrong due to a GM mis-reading that the computer provided a -1 for each ton it weighed, not -1 overall, so Pythons were landing shots that defied belief.)

The RAC problem was a nasty one, but the pulse laser one really broke the game in IS vs. Clan fights especially.
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BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Old TRO background from the original writers?
« Reply #55 on: 18 August 2022, 08:23:32 »
And rightly so. The Black Python was banned from our tables in Colorado for a while because it was just too broken. (Granted, we were also playing the targeting computer rules wrong due to a GM mis-reading that the computer provided a -1 for each ton it weighed, not -1 overall, so Pythons were landing shots that defied belief.)

Now that's an extreme misinterpretation I've never thought would happen  ;D
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