RecGuide Review of the Week: Mastodon Clan Assault Omnimech

[BATTLEMASTER]

I don't tend to include "effective" pod space, because if you're making a config that doesn't synergize with that equipment it's not effective at all.  The Linebacker suffers from this significantly when trying to use any weapons that don't generate significant amounts of heat, where suddenly those extra heat sinks are a huge downside.

I see what you're saying, but that's a problem with the official configurations and not the chassis itself.  We as players can make better use of the pod space for those chassis.  I have a feeling that some of the writers who designed the original TRO 3050 omnis didn't understand what they were doing within the context of the battlemech/omnimech construction rules, like they were creating configs with a different ruleset in mind or not everyone was given the same guidelines for configuration design.

[Zeruel]

Exe Prime takes the cake: -9 heat on a full jump...and 3 of those heat sinks are podded!

[wantec]

I assumed Stormcrow factories were widespread enough that at least the most powerful Clans were building them.

There are some designs that are more widespread, unfortunately we just don't know how widespread until it's written so.

I sometimes forget about "effective" pod space accounting for fixed heat sinks and jump jets.  The Nova, for example, has effective 22.5 tons of pod space with its five fixed jump jets and four fixed DHS.  Good point about that here with the Linebacker   The Turkina would be in the same boat in comparison to the Mastodon, but without the reinforced structure.

The Gargoyle is one of my favorite designs for some reason, but it suffers from this badly in configs like the Prime & B. A running alpha is at -18 heat and -22 heat respectively thanks to 16 base DHS. Imagine the Prime with an ERPPC, LPL, or ERLL with some ERMLs. Or the B getting more missile racks.

[Scotty]

Unless I miss my guess, six tons would be enough to let the Gargoyle Prime wield LB-10Xs akimbo, which would be a significant improvement to what it ended up being with LB-5Xs.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I think it would still be a bit short on ammo, though.

[BATTLEMASTER]

There are some designs that are more widespread, unfortunately we just don't know how widespread until it's written so.
The Gargoyle is one of my favorite designs for some reason, but it suffers from this badly in configs like the Prime & B. A running alpha is at -18 heat and -22 heat respectively thanks to 16 base DHS. Imagine the Prime with an ERPPC, LPL, or ERLL with some ERMLs.

The Gargoyle A is basically that  . As far as official configurations go that and the C are my go-tos for the Gargoyle.

[Colt Ward]

The Gargoyle is one of my favorite designs for some reason, but it suffers from this badly in configs like the Prime & B. A running alpha is at -18 heat and -22 heat respectively thanks to 16 base DHS. Imagine the Prime with an ERPPC, LPL, or ERLL with some ERMLs. Or the B getting more missile racks.

Which is why I said one of the new configs, had large lasers of some sort and Plasma Cannons, was the spiritual descendent of the old Prime.  Besides killing vehicles and BA with the Plasma weapons, it could not dink enemy mechs effectively.

To go back to the Mastodon . . . have to wonder how it works with integrating BA as in Novas . . . I mean, unless it is carrying Hauberks (for LR support) and/or Rache/Volk/Bar, Void or Sylphs their primary role as fire support means those BA are still going to have to work at getting closer.

[wantec]

Which is why I said one of the new configs, had large lasers of some sort and Plasma Cannons, was the spiritual descendent of the old Prime.  Besides killing vehicles and BA with the Plasma weapons, it could not dink enemy mechs effectively.

To go back to the Mastodon . . . have to wonder how it works with integrating BA as in Novas . . . I mean, unless it is carrying Hauberks (for LR support) and/or Rache/Volk/Bar, Void or Sylphs their primary role as fire support means those BA are still going to have to work at getting closer.

The BA choices are interesting. Since the Mastodon is primarily a defensive unit, it's not necessarily going to have to have to mechanize it's battle armor. It can pair up with ones that either will be a distraction or will take advantage of the distraction the Omni causes. Also, being in a defensive position, the Mastodon could arrive or position itself early, so BA with a 3 or 4 hex move could position themselves. Looking at the MUL for the Dark Ages Era (nothing for the ilClan era yet) there's some good options.

Kobold IIC - 6 hexes of VTOL movement, not much for weapons, but it can TAG things and provide ECM coverage.
Golem (Support) - Slow, but 12 hexes of AdvSRM range and plenty of reloads brings the firepower. Plus 18 points of fire-resistant armor makes it a pain to take out.
Clan Medium BA "Rache" - fast with a 4 hex jump, dual OS SRM racks allow it to range out in front to get a good firing spot or swarming.
Corona - Slow, but a point of MPLs will make anyone stop and pay attention.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, that is why I was looking at long range (Hauberk) or high mobility . . . would they really have the Kobold IIC?  I thought that was the Rasalhague clusters's equipment.  But letting BA be the close range coverage/protection is another good idea- sort of like I suggested points of the slower/heavier armed Protos covering fire support assaults/vehicles.

In fact, I think a Bear nova o 3 Mastodons and 2 skirmisher/flankers like Karhu w/IJJ or Vipers, and the BA contingent being those 2 Golem (Support) & Corona to ride the Mastodons, and Elementals or something for the skirmish/flankers would be a solid star to anchor a offensive push.

One other thing to note?  These designs are going to be able to stand in and rain punishment on Drac C3 & Boosted C3 forces . . . either punishing the C3 masters at long range, or with a bunch of long range weapons will be short when spotters try to get close.

[Jellico]

Constable (ECM).
The benefit of the ECM is obvious. You have 4 clips of ammo for the grenade launchers. You can put a lot of crazy through a grenade launcher. For example incendiary rounds to generate some smoke. Heck, smoke rounds. Mobile enough to keep up with the Mastodon. Light enough to mechanise on an OmniMech. There is not much short of a Corona that the Mastodon can't do by itself. So the BA provides the special effects.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Constable (ECM).
The benefit of the ECM is obvious. You have 4 clips of ammo for the grenade launchers. You can put a lot of crazy through a grenade launcher. For example incendiary rounds to generate some smoke. Heck, smoke rounds. Mobile enough to keep up with the Mastodon. Light enough to mechanise on an OmniMech. There is not much short of a Corona that the Mastodon can't do by itself. So the BA provides the special effects.

Constable is a surprisingly good choice here. Between the ECM and tag it can provide a lot of utility depending on the variant of Mastodon.

While not on the MUL for us, we should have enough with our CHH feud, the Gnome (LRM) adds a fair amount too. A jump of 2 should let it more or less keep pace, can add its own long range fire for a while anyway, and 5 AP Gauss is just about enough to keep things from getting too close, or trying to sneak around back.

[wantec]

Constable (ECM).
The benefit of the ECM is obvious. You have 4 clips of ammo for the grenade launchers. You can put a lot of crazy through a grenade launcher. For example incendiary rounds to generate some smoke. Heck, smoke rounds. Mobile enough to keep up with the Mastodon. Light enough to mechanise on an OmniMech. There is not much short of a Corona that the Mastodon can't do by itself. So the BA provides the special effects.

The Support Golem and Rache Clan MBA can crit-seek if they have enough time to get out in front & hunkered down.

Honestly I'm surprised I didn't see something with LRMs or BA-LBX.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I said Hauberk to throw in even more LR fire . . . any BA LBX besides Black Wolf?

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Well, I said Hauberk to throw in even more LR fire . . . any BA LBX besides Black Wolf?

We’d be hard pressed to field any of those, pretty far away from the Fed Suns. I prefer the gnome (lrm), it can mechanize and jump, unlike the hauberk, even with lesser ammo endurance.

The Thunderbird has two variants that have BA lbx. Although one is the Thunderbird II, which is republic exclusive prototype style unit with BA c3. I think that’s the only other one to carry it so far. Oh, the Ironhold (Anti-tank) has it too. 

[wantec]

Well, I said Hauberk to throw in even more LR fire . . . any BA LBX besides Black Wolf?

Thunderbird (Upgrade) has an LB-X variant. Plus the Ironhold mentioned. I thought there was something else besides the Black Wolf, but I can't find it right now.

[Colt Ward]

Hauberks are not FS exclusive, the Foxes had a hand in them and helped spread IIRC . . . plus they are all over the Republic.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

MUL only gives the Hauberk availability to the FS and RotS.

[BrianDavion]

Hauberks are not FS exclusive, the Foxes had a hand in them and helped spread IIRC . . . plus they are all over the Republic.

no Colt the Foxes did not "have a hand in them" the Diamond sharks sold the FedSuns some Undine suits, and walked off patting themselves on the back and snickering about how they'd "got one over on those dumb feddies"

[glitterboy2098]

no Colt the Foxes did not "have a hand in them" the Diamond sharks sold the FedSuns some Undine suits, and walked off patting themselves on the back and snickering about how they'd "got one over on those dumb feddies"

which might be part why the Fedsuns named the aquatic BA they built using the study of those Undine's the Sea Fox. while the Fox is part of the fedsuns mythos thanks to Hanse Davion, and adding 'sea' to it for an aquatic suit make sense, the fact that it matches the reverted name of the diamond shark clan suggests it was being a bit of a tweaking of the nose of the clan..

[Colt Ward]

no Colt the Foxes did not "have a hand in them" the Diamond sharks sold the FedSuns some Undine suits, and walked off patting themselves on the back and snickering about how they'd "got one over on those dumb feddies"

I want to say the MWDA fluff had the Clan being the source of the LRMs that were integrated into them in the first place.  Yeah, it was a FedSuns creation with some SharkFox consultation.

The Vega galaxy would have some from Republic sources.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I want to say the MWDA fluff had the Clan being the source of the LRMs that were integrated into them in the first place.  Yeah, it was a FedSuns creation with some SharkFox consultation.

The Vega galaxy would have some from Republic sources.

Why would the sea foxes be providing IS LRMs? I mean I guess technically the SharkFoxes did provide LRMs, cause the Undine has them built in…

Either way, a few suits (Omega never really fought the republic, just bandits in the area essentially) isn’t enough to make it worth it. Can’t be carried around by the mech, too slow to keep up with the mech even if it moves once, no jump jets to make up any difference in speed by ignoring terrain, slightly more at range firepower than the Gnome (LRM) but can’t  defend against what the mastodon can’t/shouldn’t (infantry).

Of anyone Omega would be the most likely to use transport vehicles but then the whole thing is disjointed, the suits aren’t proving support, they are just another set of LRMs

[Colt Ward]

They were not IS LRMs, they were Clan but being chopped down was why they had a minimum range.

Eh, yeah, cannot be carried so it does not matter.

[BrianDavion]

here's the relevant fluff tro tro 3067

Code: [Select]

The Hauberk assault battle armor has its genesis in
Clan Goliath Scorpion’s aquatic Undine battle armor design.
With the Word of Blake attacking on all fronts, the
Great Houses desperately sought any and all means of increasing
their military output in the hopes of stemming
the tide. As Clan Diamond Shark had already established a
reputation for being willing to sell Clan technology directly
to the Inner Sphere—as was the case with their Mad Cat
II—the Houses discreetly courted the Diamond Sharks in
the hopes they would funnel additional Clan war material
their way.
In the case of the Undine, the Federated Suns made
significant concessions in trade for several suits of battle
armor. Hopes that this new suit could be deployed in the
field quickly were dashed—the Undine’s specialized nature
proved to be tactically limiting. Maintenance problems
(and the high price the Diamond Sharks were asking for
HarJel) also conspired to derail Davion plans. However, it
was felt that the basic chassis, which was more refined than
anything the Inner Sphere had been able to produce to
date, could provide a solid foundation on which to develop
a new assault battle armor that was capable of challenging
designs such as the Kanazuchi and Golem. With intense
fighting raging on New Avalon, and the destruction of
other key manufacturing centers by Word of Blake and the
Capellan Confederation forces, the AFFS turned to General
Motors on Salem to develop and build the new battle
armor. Armed with data spirited out of the NAIS before it
was destroyed, GM had the first prototypes in the field by 3069, and by 3070 the suit was in full-scale production.

the fluff in combat equipment makes it clear that the design existed before the purchase of the suitd and where entirely a theoretical exercise until the AFFS secured the undine suits,


so yeah the clans had nothing to do with the actual design process.

there's no evidance of direct sea fox involvement in the development of ANY inner Sphere battle armor (including, amusingly eneugh, the sea fox BA)

[glitterboy2098]

i'd say that the hauberk BA discussion is getting pretty off topic for a discussion of the Mastodon Omnimech, and at this point if the issue still needs discussing, it should probably be spun off into its own thread? (or moved to the hauberk BAotW thread?)

[Zeruel]

Me, neither.  That language about excess or remaining damage does not appear in the Ballistic-Reinforced Armor rules in IO.  But it does appear in the rules for the armor types that Ballistic-Reinforced is derived from (Hardened and Reactive) in TO.  So by the letter of IO, that language does not exist or apply.  But by the spirit and logic of how these armors work in TO, that language should apply.  In the latter case, the Heavy Gauss round still decapitates the Reinforced Structure head with the Ballistic-Reinforced Armor.

so just to address this issue (somewhat late), read here:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/tactical-operations/laser-reflective-armour-threshold-and-internal-structure-damage/

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Finally got a chance to try this mech tonight.

Took a Mastodon Prime against a Jade Phoenix Prime.  The Jade Phoenix dominated at long range where its jumpiness kept the to hit numbers high, but the Mastodon is good at soaking up damage, as everyone knows.  Once the Phoenix got close, the numbers evened out considerably and the damage output tilted in the Mastodon's favor.  And then it scored a headshot with one of the ER PPCs, deciding the game.

[mbear]

The BA choices are interesting. Since the Mastodon is primarily a defensive unit, it's not necessarily going to have to have to mechanize it's battle armor. It can pair up with ones that either will be a distraction or will take advantage of the distraction the Omni causes. Also, being in a defensive position, the Mastodon could arrive or position itself early, so BA with a 3 or 4 hex move could position themselves. Looking at the MUL for the Dark Ages Era (nothing for the ilClan era yet) there's some good options.

Kobold IIC - 6 hexes of VTOL movement, not much for weapons, but it can TAG things and provide ECM coverage.
Golem (Support) - Slow, but 12 hexes of AdvSRM range and plenty of reloads brings the firepower. Plus 18 points of fire-resistant armor makes it a pain to take out.
Clan Medium BA "Rache" - fast with a 4 hex jump, dual OS SRM racks allow it to range out in front to get a good firing spot or swarming.
Corona - Slow, but a point of MPLs will make anyone stop and pay attention.

NARC equipped battle armor could fill the same role as the Rime Otter, at least in terms of designating targets for the Mastodon. Do the Bears have any battle armor with NARC? Or have they captured any of the Combine's Oni suits?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I thought there was a Kobold variant with NARC, but the MUL doesn't list any.  Looking at Battle Armor on the MUL filtered by availability to Rasalhague Dominion and IS Clan General, I'm not seeing anything.

[wantec]

I thought there was a Kobold variant with NARC, but the MUL doesn't list any.  Looking at Battle Armor on the MUL filtered by availability to Rasalhague Dominion and IS Clan General, I'm not seeing anything.

The MUL only has 4 BA showing up with the NARC AS ability. The BA are Oni (NARC), Purifier (NARC), Grenadier (SRM/NARC), and Nephilim (NARC). None are available to the Bears, but I feel like there's more BA out there with NARC.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

The MUL only has 4 BA showing up with the NARC AS ability. The BA are Oni (NARC), Purifier (NARC), Grenadier (SRM/NARC), and Nephilim (NARC). None are available to the Bears, but I feel like there's more BA out there with NARC.

In theory It’d fit on most clan BA modular mounts so they can be semi-custom refits.