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Author Topic: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.  (Read 10752 times)

Weirdo

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #30 on: 19 March 2016, 12:26:39 »
With it's large cargo bay, wouldn't that suggest the ship more suited as a raider, cruisers were classically used in that sort role in World War II.

Y'know, that's not a bad idea. Use your Thera groups to take down enemy WarShips, and send your Aggies out as commerce raiders. You'd need some supply ships at preset rendezvous points, but a lone Agamemnon could easily make short work of a merchant convoy, forcing your enemy to pull WarShips back from the front line for convoy escort duties. Big ones too, as even an Aggie can tear up a destroyer or corvette through raw firepower alone.

I wonder...do you think that like the Albatross, the modern FWLN was built for a hypothetical war with the Clans? These ships would have been laid down at the height of the Invasion, when it fears that the Wolves and Falcons could tear right through Lyran space and head into the League were perfectly reasonable. If so, use Theras to stop a major attack before it can land or to negate their space superiority by taking out SL-vintage battleships, and Agamemnons and Zechetinus cut loose for independent operations would have done huge damage to the Clan supply train.

Hmm...this thought makes me want to set up an Agamemnon vs Aegis fight, to represent a FWL raider going after a Jade Falcon supply convoy that turns out to be guarded by one of their many cruisers.
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Wrangler

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #31 on: 19 March 2016, 12:53:20 »
The FWLS Menelaus, being surviving unit of the class, if weren't for fears of Wolves surviving navy could turn on her.   However, it could have disrupt Wolf Empire penetration into the Republic and the (New) Free World League.
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Weirdo

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #32 on: 19 March 2016, 13:03:29 »
...I have no idea what that post was trying to say.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
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Wrangler

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #33 on: 19 March 2016, 13:24:44 »
...I have no idea what that post was trying to say.
Basically i was saying, that the FWLS Menelaus could have been used to distrupt Wolf Empire's further incursions into the League, but wasn't used.
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Jellico

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #34 on: 20 March 2016, 02:10:54 »
Or supply the resouce sink that is a Thera class carrier.

gyedid

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #35 on: 20 March 2016, 11:37:56 »
Y'know, that's not a bad idea. Use your Thera groups to take down enemy WarShips, and send your Aggies out as commerce raiders. You'd need some supply ships at preset rendezvous points, but a lone Agamemnon could easily make short work of a merchant convoy, forcing your enemy to pull WarShips back from the front line for convoy escort duties. Big ones too, as even an Aggie can tear up a destroyer or corvette through raw firepower alone.

I wonder...do you think that like the Albatross, the modern FWLN was built for a hypothetical war with the Clans? These ships would have been laid down at the height of the Invasion, when it fears that the Wolves and Falcons could tear right through Lyran space and head into the League were perfectly reasonable. If so, use Theras to stop a major attack before it can land or to negate their space superiority by taking out SL-vintage battleships, and Agamemnons and Zechetinus cut loose for independent operations would have done huge damage to the Clan supply train.

Hmm...this thought makes me want to set up an Agamemnon vs Aegis fight, to represent a FWL raider going after a Jade Falcon supply convoy that turns out to be guarded by one of their many cruisers.

Amazing that after all this time, the Aggie's true purpose still baffles us.  :D

And I would not expect that fight to last very long.

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #36 on: 20 March 2016, 13:42:33 »
Most opponents can throw ~50+ pts at the Agg at long range which will strip it in the 1st exchange. Agg's main response is bringing its full broadside of about 250+ to bear. Assuming 50% of weapons fire hit, for a fight to be even equally matched, the opponent has to have ~125 armour per side and throw ~100 pts at long range. That rules out all 3067 cruisers and most SL/Clan cruisers except say the Sovetskii Soyuz.

But most anything with the labels frigate, corvette or destroyer is sub-100 armour which is fair game, doubly so for the SL/Clan ships with very low armour. And the Aggie has a ringer: that Heavy N-Gauss can start tearing huge chunks off from extreme range along with desultory fire from the NL55s.

So, against cruisers and above? No contest, really, not even the Aegis whose 100-pt armour hide might just survive the first round long enough to throw back, count em: one two three four FIVE 60-pt barrages and two more 50-pt hits. (With bracketing fire the Aegis will be a sure winner.) But against all the smaller ships? The Agamemnon will probably survive. A mess, but survive.

gyedid

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #37 on: 20 March 2016, 23:59:26 »
Most opponents can throw ~50+ pts at the Agg at long range which will strip it in the 1st exchange. Agg's main response is bringing its full broadside of about 250+ to bear. Assuming 50% of weapons fire hit, for a fight to be even equally matched, the opponent has to have ~125 armour per side and throw ~100 pts at long range. That rules out all 3067 cruisers and most SL/Clan cruisers except say the Sovetskii Soyuz.

But most anything with the labels frigate, corvette or destroyer is sub-100 armour which is fair game, doubly so for the SL/Clan ships with very low armour. And the Aggie has a ringer: that Heavy N-Gauss can start tearing huge chunks off from extreme range along with desultory fire from the NL55s.

So, against cruisers and above? No contest, really, not even the Aegis whose 100-pt armour hide might just survive the first round long enough to throw back, count em: one two three four FIVE 60-pt barrages and two more 50-pt hits. (With bracketing fire the Aegis will be a sure winner.) But against all the smaller ships? The Agamemnon will probably survive. A mess, but survive.

If memory serves, the Sov Soy has less than 100 points per facing (plus it's not REALLY a cruiser).  The Aegis, Cameron, Liberator, Conqueror, and Black Lion all do better than that.

And what much of this thread seems to be leading me to conclude is that the Aggie isn't really a cruiser either--it's a grossly oversized, overgunned destroyer, or "heavy frigate" at best.

On another note...the Aggie's visual design seems very, um...dorsoventrally compressed to me.  Where does it have room for a grav deck?  (The Winchester is another grievous offender in this category IMO.)

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

Rage

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #38 on: 23 March 2016, 23:15:42 »
If memory serves, the Sov Soy has less than 100 points per facing (plus it's not REALLY a cruiser).  The Aegis, Cameron, Liberator, Conqueror, and Black Lion all do better than that.

And what much of this thread seems to be leading me to conclude is that the Aggie isn't really a cruiser either--it's a grossly oversized, overgunned destroyer, or "heavy frigate" at best.

On another note...the Aggie's visual design seems very, um...dorsoventrally compressed to me.  Where does it have room for a grav deck?  (The Winchester is another grievous offender in this category IMO.)

cheers,

Gabe

Perhaps her Grav Decks are like the Olympus stations? Horizontal as opposed to vertical.

HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #39 on: 24 March 2016, 14:40:05 »
Perhaps her Grav Decks are like the Olympus stations? Horizontal as opposed to vertical.
That's ackward for tying down the stuff in the decks.
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Weirdo

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #40 on: 24 March 2016, 15:08:29 »
Bungee cords for holding down plates, brackets chairs lock into when not in use...they'll be fine.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #41 on: 25 March 2016, 14:03:04 »
Bungee cords for holding down plates, brackets chairs lock into when not in use...they'll be fine.
When you strap down a horizontal oriented grav wheel, you have to determine where you are on the wheel to decide  to strap down the stuff whenever on the floor or the ceiling. At least with the vertical grav wheel, you just strap down the stuff on the walls facing the engine section.
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Weirdo

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #42 on: 25 March 2016, 14:11:29 »
Or you use straps strong enough to handle holding things in any orientation, and avoid taking large heavy objects that the straps can't handle onto the grav deck.
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"It's just that the Hegemony had one answer to every naval problem. 'I kills it with my battleships.'" - Liam's Ghost
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #43 on: 25 March 2016, 16:42:44 »
Aren't the Grav deck primarily for Crew comfort?
Just put everything there in solid boxes and then give a short test-thrust at 0.1 g to see if everything topples over that you forgot.
What besides recreational goods and maybe some clothing needs to be there?
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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #44 on: 25 March 2016, 17:15:55 »
That's ackward for tying down the stuff in the decks.

Wait, how is this different from any other grav deck?  "Conventional" ones still have the issue of "down" not being aligned with the axis of thrust.
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Hammerpilot IIC

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Re: Warship of this Month - Agamemnon class Heavy Cruiser.
« Reply #45 on: 28 March 2016, 14:58:19 »
Y'know, that's not a bad idea. Use your Thera groups to take down enemy WarShips, and send your Aggies out as commerce raiders. You'd need some supply ships at preset rendezvous points, but a lone Agamemnon could easily make short work of a merchant convoy, forcing your enemy to pull WarShips back from the front line for convoy escort duties. Big ones too, as even an Aggie can tear up a destroyer or corvette through raw firepower alone.

I wonder...do you think that like the Albatross, the modern FWLN was built for a hypothetical war with the Clans? These ships would have been laid down at the height of the Invasion, when it fears that the Wolves and Falcons could tear right through Lyran space and head into the League were perfectly reasonable. If so, use Theras to stop a major attack before it can land or to negate their space superiority by taking out SL-vintage battleships, and Agamemnons and Zechetinus cut loose for independent operations would have done huge damage to the Clan supply train.

Hmm...this thought makes me want to set up an Agamemnon vs Aegis fight, to represent a FWL raider going after a Jade Falcon supply convoy that turns out to be guarded by one of their many cruisers.

That would also hang together pretty well with the WOB giving guidance to the FWLN. They would have needed that anti-Clan navy if all had gone as planned at the Whitting Conference...
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