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Author Topic: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)  (Read 3578 times)

Daryk

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5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« on: 20 September 2021, 19:55:39 »
Given the latest Tech Manual errata that limits primary infantry weapons to 0.6 damage and gives weapons thus limited the Heavy Burst special for free, the obvious solution is to engineer a weapon that gets just over 0.6 damage.  Being that a three-shot Compact (aka "under barrel") Grenade Launcher gets you 0.47 damage, your threshold is 0.14.  Conveniently enough, the Vintage Assault Rifle's 2AP/3BD damage gets to 0.14 with a (wait for it...) 3-round burst.  Modern weapons that have equivalent ammunition (i.e., 3AP/2BD)?  The Mydron and Rorynex SMGs, both of which have MUCH higher burst values, and not much weight.  Infantry the Sphere over will rejoice at their basic load coming down in weight:

The "Edge" 5.56mm assault weapon with integral grenade launcher:

Equipment Rating: C/B-C-B/D
Armor Piercing/Base Damage: 2B/3B or by ordnance type
Range: 15/40/90/205 meters
Shots: 30/3
Cost/Reload: 400/3 and by ordnance type
Affiliation: -
Mass/Reload: 5kg/480g+600g
Notes: Burst: 3; Recoil Compensation built in (0 recoil)
TW Damage: 0.61 (1/2/3 range), Heavy Burst special when used as a primary weapon.
« Last Edit: 29 April 2022, 20:40:21 by Daryk »

DevianID

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2021, 01:02:46 »
The vintage is pretty expensive.  What is the cheapest/lowest tech options for hitting .6 infantry damage?

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2021, 01:59:16 »
Holy crap wait what?  That’s a hell of a nerf on the Mauser 960.
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RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #3 on: 21 September 2021, 09:06:44 »
I just looked at the errata and the Mouser 960 does .93 damage. Did that change?

nckestrel

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #4 on: 21 September 2021, 09:08:27 »
I just looked at the errata and the Mouser 960 does .93 damage. Did that change?
If it's a secondary weapon, it does .93.  If it's the primary, it hits the cap of .6 and gains the heavy burst.
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RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #5 on: 21 September 2021, 09:32:12 »
If it's a secondary weapon, it does .93.  If it's the primary, it hits the cap of .6 and gains the heavy burst.

Where is that ruling and how does it effect the conversion rules in AToW Companion?

monbvol

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2021, 11:56:30 »
This errata is somewhat interesting.

It actually makes the impacted weapons deadlier against PBIs the fewer PBIs there are in the unit.  One PBI with a Mauser 960 can now take out 2-7 enemy PBI all by themselves whereas before they only took out 1 enemy PBI.  I may have to calculate the break even point when I get home from work.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2021, 17:17:16 »
Where is that ruling and how does it effect the conversion rules in AToW Companion?
It's in the newest Tech Manual errata.  It doesn't actually affect the Companion conversion rules at all.  It only comes into play when you assemble an infantry unit.

My biggest question is "Why?"  ???

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #8 on: 22 September 2021, 07:14:38 »
It's in the newest Tech Manual errata.  It doesn't actually affect the Companion conversion rules at all.  It only comes into play when you assemble an infantry unit.

My biggest question is "Why?"  ???


Why I'm asking? Because the numbers in TM came from using the Companion Conversions. If they're not changed the Companion Conversion is no longer legal.

Why the change?   I have no idea but my guess would to be nerf infantry even more. With the currant "Mechs Only!" attitude it wouldn't surprise me if other non mech units started being nerfed too.

VhenRa

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #9 on: 22 September 2021, 11:16:32 »
As Daryk said, it doesn't change the companion conversion.

A weapon that deals 0.9 from the companion conversion still deals 0.9

It just becomes 0.6+Heavy Burst when used as a primary weapon. If you issue it as a secondary weapon it remains 0.9.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #10 on: 22 September 2021, 13:28:42 »
As Daryk said, it doesn't change the companion conversion.

A weapon that deals 0.9 from the companion conversion still deals 0.9

It just becomes 0.6+Heavy Burst when used as a primary weapon. If you issue it as a secondary weapon it remains 0.9.

Then it isn't the same is it?

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #11 on: 22 September 2021, 16:30:02 »
The Companion formulation doesn't change, and the value it outputs provides both the damage when a weapon is used as a secondary, and is the trigger for the rule change in Tech Manual (which applies to 5 existing weapons listed in that book, for no good reason I can see).  And yes, my "why" question was "why did they make this change?"  Xotl said it was to rein in excesses.  Personally, I think they could have fixed it by fixing grenade launchers and how they converted the M42B, but that's me.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #12 on: 23 September 2021, 15:20:37 »
The Companion formulation doesn't change, and the value it outputs provides both the damage when a weapon is used as a secondary, and is the trigger for the rule change in Tech Manual (which applies to 5 existing weapons listed in that book, for no good reason I can see).  And yes, my "why" question was "why did they make this change?"  Xotl said it was to rein in excesses.  Personally, I think they could have fixed it by fixing grenade launchers and how they converted the M42B, but that's me.

But it does change. The weapon, now being a primary weapon, does less damage.

What excesses?  They could have fixed things by having the Rifle and the Grenade Launcher be separate attacks.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #13 on: 23 September 2021, 17:13:56 »
There's lots of ways they could have fixed that problem. They chose this one.

My point is that the Companion formula and the Tech Manual process are separate from each other.  It's not the Companion that caps the damage.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #14 on: 25 September 2021, 07:28:04 »
There's lots of ways they could have fixed that problem. They chose this one.

My point is that the Companion formula and the Tech Manual process are separate from each other.  It's not the Companion that caps the damage.


Not the best idea. But then I've been thinking that a lot lately. :(


True but the formula is supposed to convert AToW to TW and now it doesn't because TW's put a cap on damage.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #15 on: 25 September 2021, 08:04:22 »
Only under a certain circumstance.  The base conversion is still good.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #16 on: 25 September 2021, 14:36:52 »
Until they decide to fix things more.  :(

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #17 on: 25 September 2021, 14:41:43 »
Sad but true...  :-\

monbvol

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #18 on: 25 September 2021, 20:24:26 »

Why I'm asking? Because the numbers in TM came from using the Companion Conversions. If they're not changed the Companion Conversion is no longer legal.

Why the change?   I have no idea but my guess would to be nerf infantry even more. With the currant "Mechs Only!" attitude it wouldn't surprise me if other non mech units started being nerfed too.

I'm actually rather certain that the highlighted section is not the case.  For one the Companion was not published until well after TW/TM and there are no indications that the formula existed in the Companion's state at the time of TW/TM's publication.

It would not be the first time stats were made up before there were actual rules or older stats simply ported over to the current edition and a process created retroactively to make it work out.  For games in general or for Battletech in particular.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #19 on: 26 September 2021, 07:32:59 »
I'm actually rather certain that the highlighted section is not the case.  For one the Companion was not published until well after TW/TM and there are no indications that the formula existed in the Companion's state at the time of TW/TM's publication.

It would not be the first time stats were made up before there were actual rules or older stats simply ported over to the current edition and a process created retroactively to make it work out.  For games in general or for Battletech in particular.

Maybe?  It sure feels like they had the conversions when they made TM.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #20 on: 26 September 2021, 07:36:51 »
I believe it was simply unpublished at the time.

RifleMech

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #21 on: 26 September 2021, 12:47:23 »
Could be.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #22 on: 10 October 2021, 13:11:26 »
Doing a bit more edge case math, it seems the current maximum damage for an infantry platoon is to use any primary weapon over 0.6 damage and two bootleg Bearhunters per squad with ComStar/WoB organization (where the maximum is five six-trooper squads) for a total of 35 damage.  Clans are limited by the five squad max per platoon rule (page 146 of Tech Manual) to 32 damage.  "Regular" IS organization using bootleg clan gear would get you 31 damage (assuming you could get the Bearhunters).  Taurian 10-trooper squads with those weapons only get you 28 damage per platoon of 30 now (I'm ignoring Marians because the "sub-platoon" rules don't divide them into groups of 30).

These compare to the previous maximums at:
ComStar/WoB: (4 bootleg Mauser IIcs + 2 bootleg Bearhunters per squad): 51 (-16 damage now and the useless Heavy Burst the Bearhunters get anyway)
Taurian: (8 bootleg Mauser IIcs + 2 bootleg Bearhunters per squad): 47 (-19 damage now and the useless Heavy Burst as above)
"Regular IS": (5 bootleg Mauser IIcs + 2 bootleg Bearhunters per squad): 46 (-15 damage now and the useless Heavy Burst as above)
clan (3 Mauser IIcs + 2 Bearhunters per "squad", limited to 5 squads per platoon): 44 (-12 damage and the useless Heavy burst as above)

The math of course changes when you factor in less capable IS support weaponry, but these are the changes at the absolute worst.  i also note again the change only affects five infantry weapons in Tech Manual (all three Mausers (SL, WoB and clan), the infamous Federated M42B, and the Federated M61A laser rifle/grenade launcher system).  The Sniper Rifles from Shrapnel #1 are only slightly affected since most of them do less than 0.6 damage.

I'm even less convinced this change was worth it now, but I freely admit it wasn't my decision.  Maybe they're trying to drive players to Field Guns?  ???

monbvol

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #23 on: 10 October 2021, 21:17:49 »
Did my own little thought experiment.

Since the damage conversion in the companion assumes using standard ammunition I figured I'd run the conversion for the Autorifle using AP ammunition stats instead.  It ends up at 0.59.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #24 on: 11 October 2021, 03:46:34 »
When you say "AP ammunition", what exactly do you mean?  ???

monbvol

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #25 on: 11 October 2021, 09:08:26 »
AToW has Armor Piercing ammunition in the specialty ammunition section that is usable by most ballistic Small Arms last I checked.  +2AP -1BD.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #26 on: 11 October 2021, 09:33:49 »
Ah, page 285... not sure how I missed that before.  It's definitely more of an advantage than I would have expected.

And I concur with 0.59 for the auto-rifle with that.  I wonder if that was a factor in choosing 0.6 for the nerf.

Even with that, though... it doesn't seem to push many weapons over any critical break points.

monbvol

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #27 on: 11 October 2021, 10:23:19 »
What I find more interesting is how much of a downgrade HE ammo is for the generic autorifle.

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #28 on: 11 October 2021, 11:29:57 »
HE and the rest are why I've mostly ignored that section for so long.  Thanks for pointing it out again...  :thumbsup:

EDIT: Just grammar (late as it may be).
« Last Edit: 01 April 2022, 19:09:56 by Daryk »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #29 on: 11 October 2021, 13:14:26 »
On a related note, as I'm now trying to do up some Dark Age infantry platoons for the Niops Militia, I'm noticing that the Support PPC is a pain in the neck.

Since the Mauser 960 gets nerfed using it as a primary weapon, I thought I'd reserve that as their support weapon for most platoons.  For one, though, I wanted to duplicate the Taurian field gun infantry...except Taurian infantry are 30-person platoons of three 10-person squads, which is perfect for the Support PPC: with a crew of 5 required, they can fit two Support PPCs/squad.

The problem is everyone else: standard Inner Sphere squads of 7 troops only allows you to use one Support PPC per squad, which makes it effectively useless: I'm better off with two support weapons of comparable range with half the damage: as long as it does 0.79/weapon, with the same range bracket, and uses less than 4 per support weapon, you'll do more damage and have more range.

In fact, there's a Support Snub-Nose PPC which somehow does the same damage as the Support PPC, but has a crew of 3, and a base range of 5.  I don't have ATOW Companion, so I don't know the full deal on where it's from, but...same weight, 2 less crew, same damage, and shoots farther, while being a snub-nose version?  What?
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Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #30 on: 11 October 2021, 14:34:18 »
It's a (mis-)blending of two rule sets.  Snub-nosed PPCs are known for a long "short" range.  Infantry weapon range is based entirely on the short range band. Combine the two, and you get snubbies with longer range than regulars when used by infantry.  If range is what you're going for, you're better off with Sniper Rifles for your secondaries, as they don't impact your mobility.  Niops should have access to at least one design of the Wilimton or the SLDF version of the FNF-J12.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #31 on: 11 October 2021, 15:13:45 »
It's a (mis-)blending of two rule sets.  Snub-nosed PPCs are known for a long "short" range.  Infantry weapon range is based entirely on the short range band. Combine the two, and you get snubbies with longer range than regulars when used by infantry.  If range is what you're going for, you're better off with Sniper Rifles for your secondaries, as they don't impact your mobility.  Niops should have access to at least one design of the Wilimton or the SLDF version of the FNF-J12.

I don't think either of those are in MegaMekLab, though, right?

The main thing I was going for was setting up something similar to these guys

The Support PPC and Snub-Nose Support PPCs each take the form of a 1.8-ton tracked vehicle, which makes them perfect to use as the thematic basis for your motorized infantry with towed field guns.  It's just that it's near-impossible to make a decent standard infantry unit with them.
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Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #32 on: 11 October 2021, 15:44:00 »
I don't use MML so I'm not sure, sorry...  :-\

CVB

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #33 on: 11 October 2021, 15:59:24 »
The problem is everyone else: standard Inner Sphere squads of 7 troops only allows you to use one Support PPC per squad, which makes it effectively useless: I'm better off with two support weapons of comparable range with half the damage: as long as it does 0.79/weapon, with the same range bracket, and uses less than 4 per support weapon, you'll do more damage and have more range.

A single Support PPC doesn't slow you down, while two support weapons cost you one MP (except for Tracked 'Mechanized squads/platoons).
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #34 on: 11 October 2021, 16:10:49 »
A single Support PPC doesn't slow you down, while two support weapons cost you one MP (except for Tracked 'Mechanized squads/platoons).

It's not so much slowing down I'm worried about, it's that you're only ever going to get one Support PPC as a support weapon, due to the 5-person crew requirement. As a result, you need 10 troopers per squad, so unless you're the Marians or the Taurians, you're never really going to get the benefit of having them.

A Time of War Companion adds an updated "Snub-Nose" version with smaller crew requirements and longer range for the same weight and damage, which can fit two into a 7-person squad, or even a 6-person ComStar/WoB squad.
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CVB

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #35 on: 11 October 2021, 17:46:33 »
It's not so much slowing down I'm worried about, it's that you're only ever going to get one Support PPC as a support weapon, due to the 5-person crew requirement.

What's the problem? With a single Support PPC you get as much additional damage as from your 2 support weapons of 0.79 damage you mentioned earlier, you keep your full movement allowance and can get the range from one of the Shrapnel Sniper Rifles.

Quote
As a result, you need 10 troopers per squad, so unless you're the Marians or the Taurians, you're never really going to get the benefit of having them.

Then maybe you should hire Marian or Taurian Military Advisors  8)
Honestly, when we talk about 2 Support PPCs, we are already deep in home designs. I don't think any Army would refrain from using weapons deemed valuable just because their Organization Table would need an update. How often did the US Army change the mechanized infantry squad, platoon and company organization to adapt to M16 halftracks, M75, M59, M113, M2/M3, Stryker, or to introduce and eliminate different radio sets, squad automatic weapons, HMGs, machine pistols, carbines, assault rifles, mortars, rifle grenades, grenade launchers, Bazookas, LAWs, VLAWs, Dragons,  Redeyes, Stingers...


Quote
A Time of War Companion adds an updated "Snub-Nose" version with smaller crew requirements and longer range for the same weight and damage, which can fit two into a 7-person squad, or even a 6-person ComStar/WoB squad.
The Snubby is in MML, only missing BV.
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #36 on: 11 October 2021, 20:33:18 »
What's the problem? With a single Support PPC you get as much additional damage as from your 2 support weapons of 0.79 damage you mentioned earlier, you keep your full movement allowance and can get the range from one of the Shrapnel Sniper Rifles.

Those sniper rifles have not yet been added to MegaMekLab, making them impossible to use in MegaMek.

But, I mean, sure, there are laser rifles with a 3 base range, but it's aggravating that your range isn't being dictated by your 1.8-ton support weapon.  Of course, it's also weird that the 1.8-ton support weapon doesn't seem to change your platoon's mass...

Quote
Then maybe you should hire Marian or Taurian Military Advisors  8)

Well, if you don't want to have any distinctiveness between factions, sure. ;)

Quote
Honestly, when we talk about 2 Support PPCs, we are already deep in home designs. I don't think any Army would refrain from using weapons deemed valuable just because their Organization Table would need an update. How often did the US Army change the mechanized infantry squad, platoon and company organization to adapt to M16 halftracks, M75, M59, M113, M2/M3, Stryker, or to introduce and eliminate different radio sets, squad automatic weapons, HMGs, machine pistols, carbines, assault rifles, mortars, rifle grenades, grenade launchers, Bazookas, LAWs, VLAWs, Dragons,  Redeyes, Stingers...

The Snubby is in MML, only missing BV.

Side note: there is a canon infantry unit that has two Support PPCs per squad.  In fact, I linked to it earlier.

But, yeah, with that said, I suspect I'll just end up having to use a different trooper count for what I'm trying to do.
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Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #37 on: 06 March 2022, 10:53:53 »
After watching maybe a little too much Aliens, it struck me a TL D version of my first post would probably look a little like a Pulse Rifle, so based on Rorynex's RM-3 with a 4-shot compact grenade launcher strapped to it:

Rorynex R41 "Pulse" Rifle with integral grenade launcher:

Equipment Rating: D/C-D-C/D
Armor Piercing/Base Damage: 3B/2B (compatible with the RM3) or by ordnance type
Range: 15/40/90/205 meters
Shots: 100/4
Cost/Reload: 800/10 and by ordnance type
Affiliation: -
Mass/Reload: 4kg/760g+800g
Notes: Burst: 3; Recoil Compensation built in (0 recoil)
TW Damage: 0.61 (1/2/3 range), Heavy Burst special when used as a primary weapon

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES!
« Reply #38 on: 17 April 2022, 04:06:28 »
Abandoning all verisimilitude, here's an Edge carbine (with the mandatory under-barrel grenade launcher):

Equipment Rating: C/C-C-C/D
Armor Piercing/Base Damage: 4B/2B
Range: 15/45/75/150 meters
Shots: 10/3
Cost/Reload: 400/1 and by ordnance type
Affiliation: -
Mass/Reload: 3kg/75g+600g
Notes: Semi-automatic (Burst 1)
TW Damage: 0.61 (1/2/3 range), Heavy Burst special when used as a primary weapon

Daryk

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Re: Mauser Shenanigans
« Reply #39 on: 29 April 2022, 20:16:47 »
So try this on for size:

Take a 2-trooper squad, and equip both with bog standard Mauser 960s.  Designate one as Primary and one as a Secondary weapon.  That adds up to: 0.93 + 0.60 (rule limited) = 1.53, which rounds to 2 (the same it would be without the limiting rule).  WITH the Heavy Burst special.  AT 2/4/6 range.

Of course, you can only have five of these squads per platoon (darn).  That's 10 troopers (which fit in a one-ton infantry bay) that do 8 points of damage (5d6 Anti-Infantry) at 2/4/6 range.

Is anyone seeing a downside here?  Because my favorite tank (the GOBLIN) just got a whole lot sexier...  ^-^

CVB

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #40 on: 29 April 2022, 21:56:15 »
The only minimal downside could be that dismounting five squads takes some time (if you want to get the advantages of squad deployment).
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #41 on: 30 April 2022, 03:46:19 »
Hence why you only use vehicles with 1-ton infantry compartments...  ^-^

CVB

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #42 on: 30 April 2022, 05:20:07 »
That was my assumption ("...dismounting five squads..."), I could still be dismounting from a Maxim II when the war ends :)
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #43 on: 30 April 2022, 06:46:34 »
I think you can get around that by dismounting as a "platoon", then breaking up into squads.  Really, you can use "platoons" of that size AS squads.

idea weenie

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Re: Mauser Shenanigans
« Reply #44 on: 30 April 2022, 06:50:27 »
Take a 2-trooper squad, and equip both with bog standard Mauser 960s.  Designate one as Primary and one as a Secondary weapon.  That adds up to: 0.93 + 0.60 (rule limited) = 1.53, which rounds to 2 (the same it would be without the limiting rule).  WITH the Heavy Burst special.  AT 2/4/6 range.

Of course, you can only have five of these squads per platoon (darn).  That's 10 troopers (which fit in a one-ton infantry bay) that do 8 points of damage (5d6 Anti-Infantry) at 2/4/6 range.

Is anyone seeing a downside here?  Because my favorite tank (the GOBLIN) just got a whole lot sexier...  ^-^

How about removing the Medium Laser from a Savannah Master and replacing it with an infantry compartment?  High-speed infantry delivery/retrieval

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #45 on: 30 April 2022, 06:52:18 »
There's a canon Ferret that will work just fine...  8)

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #46 on: 01 May 2022, 16:21:33 »
Here's a worse idea:  Instead of a Mauser 960, use a Mauser IIc and a Bear Hunter.  That gets you 3 points of damage, the Heavy Burst special and 3/6/9 range.  Of course, proper choice of Sniper Rifle as a Primary weapon will make that 3 points of damage out to 7/14/21 range with Heavy Burst.  Both scale to a full 15 damage points with 5d6 Anti-Infantry damage per 10 trooper "platoon".  And they were worried about excesses before...  ::)

A MG variant Goblin can cart 5 of those "platoons" around the battlefield, but only load/unload one per turn.  Heavy APCs carry SiX...  >:D

CVB

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #47 on: 01 May 2022, 17:05:04 »
And when my math is right, assuming a sniper rifle cost of 1,000cb, that whole "platoon" is still cheaper than a standard MG platoon, leaving some funds for armor or stealth suits  >:D

You're evil!  ;D :clap:
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #48 on: 01 May 2022, 17:26:49 »
Thank you!  I try my best (worst, I suppose)...  ^-^

DOC_Agren

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #49 on: 01 May 2022, 19:28:43 »
And see Daryk, that why I love your crazy ideas.  8)
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Daryk

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Re: 5.56 LIVES! (Infantry Weapon Nerf Shenanigans)
« Reply #50 on: 02 May 2022, 03:12:31 »
Thanks DOC!  :)

 

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