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Author Topic: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.  (Read 2523 times)

Fear Factory

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Copied from the BattleTech International FB group:

I've been on a LAM kick lately. Tried them out in MegaMek and... wow... AirMech mode is way too constricted by control rolls.
Everytime I revisit the rules for LAM's, I always interpret the rules as some kind of agenda by TPTB at the time to make them so unenjoyable that they're never seen in casual games again. Why would anyone want to play this unit on the table top? I think WiGE movement is fine, but if all of the control rolls were axed I don't think it would unbalance anything. It would basically work like a VTOL that can't gain any elevation without using terrain. I think it's balanced because it's super hard to hit stuff anyway (+3 or +4 depending on movement speed). I mean, if you don't want them to control the board so much, why not have facing changes cost 2 MP instead of 1? I imagine them having a turn rate like a Harrier anyway... well, one that actually works.

Now, in Alpha Strike, they are much more simple and basically work like the VTOL scenario above. You can actually use them.


Also, you need 3 books to use LAM's. Total Warfare, Tactical Operations, and Interstellar Opearations. TacOps... JUST ONE TABLE. You shouldn't have to buy an entire book for a single table. Yikes.

So, here is my idea. If I didn't mention anything else, then it wasn't changed. I want it to be easier and I want AirMech to have its uses without being the original rules.

Simple AirMech Movement Rules

AirMech mode is a hybrid BattleMech/Fighter that uses its VSTOL capabilities to move like a hovercraft and traverse terrain like a WiGE aircraft. When the AirMech is standing, walking, or running, it cannot be in WiGE restricted terrain (like woods) because of its wingspan. It cannot take off or land in restricted terrain. When an AirMech moves using its cruising movement it can maneuver like a WiGE without any control rolls. If flanking, the AirMech must check if it sideslips as if it is a hovercraft following WiGE terrain restrictions. For example, if it was to sideslip from level 0 to level 1 terrain it would move into the hex with no issues, but will have issues if it was level 2 or if it was a woods hex. It still has to take off to move if landed (the cost is its BattleMech walking MP) and choose to land or not at the end of movement (no cost). It doesn’t need to retain a minimum MP to keep flight nor follow Turn Modes. Also, like a WiGE, it can spend MP to keep its height for a number of hexes and will automatically descend to 1 above its underlying terrain at the end of movement. It can also use its VSTOL equipment to "hover" and maintain its elevation by spending its base jumping MP at the end of its movement.

Targeting an AirMech

While it moves like a WiGE, it is treated as if it is a hovercraft no matter what its elevation is. This means that while it is moving it will not get the bonuses associated with being an airborne target even though it’s moving like a WiGE. However, attackers that have munitions, equipment, or weapons that provide bonuses for targeting aircraft and hovercraft apply. The modifier for targeting a unit that jumped is applied when it performs a jumping maneuver. The airborne modifier is applied when it performs a takeoff maneuver.

The “Jumping Maneuver”

An AirMech cannot jump like a BattleMech but it can use its jump jets, VSTOL equipment, and wings, to perform a “Jumping Maneuver.” The AirMech must start the movement phase landed and it must land after the maneuver. It expends all of its cruising MP, costs its base MP to take off, ½ its base MP (round normally) to land, and follows the rules for Jumping (For example: A 5/8/5 LAM would have to spend 5 MP to take off and 3 to land with a jumping height of 5). Its jump maneuver MP is equal to its jumping MP times 1.5 (round up/just like finding a ‘Mechs running MP). Heat is calculated as if it spent all of its cruising MP no matter how far it travels. At take-off, no piloting skill roll is required, but landing is a 2d6 piloting skill check with a +1 modifier. If failed, the AirMech falls then skids in the direction of its jump for 1/4 the total distance it traveled (round normally).

The easiest way to remember jumping maneuver stats:
-   Jump height = BattleMech Jump MP
-   Jump distance = BattleMech Jump MP x 1.5 (round up)
-   Jump heat = Using all AirMech Cruising MP
-   Skidding = ¼ Jump distance used (round normally)


The “Takeoff Maneuver”

The AirMech has the ability to convert into a Fighter while airborne. It can start from a landed, take off, or hover position and there is no skill roll required. At the start of its movement it can change its facing in any direction, then expends all of its MP to travel in a straight line equal to its jump MP x 1.5 (round up). It has a climb of +2 levels per hex. Once it reaches its final hex it converts into a fighter and continues on that path. This maneuver does not require a skill check.

The “Hover Maneuver”

The AirMech can use a combination of its advanced VSTOL and BattleMech jump jets to keep its elevation by hovering. It can retain a maximum elevation of 3. When it gains elevation by moving off of a level, where it would normally descend to 1 above underlying terrain, it can choose to end its movement and keep elevation by spending ¼ its base Jumping MP (round up). If this level was higher than the maximum elevation it can still choose to hover but will descend to the maximum elevation (or lower if it chooses to). This maneuver does not require a skill check.

If the LAM suffers a critical hit to a jump jet, its gyro, or is missing a side torso (wing), it cannot perform any maneuver. It can still do it if it suffers a leg actuator or hip critical hit, using the corresponding modifiers.

Example 1:

The AirMech wants to get to Hex A from its starting position. It declares that it is using its cruising movement of 15 MP. It spends MP to take off (5) then moves from hex 1 to hex 4 (5 MP total, choosing to descend in hex 4). It spends 1 MP to turn 1 hexside to its right, then moves forward and descends into hex A, spending a total of 12 MP. If the AirMech wanted to keep its elevation while moving into hex A and even further, it would cost 2 MP per hex until it reaches its MP runs out or it stops, then descends. If Hex A was a woods hex it could keep its elevation from hex 4 in order to move over it but it cannot end movement in the hex or it would descend and crash into the woods since it is prohibited terrain. The AirMech would have to spend MP to hover over the woods by spending 2 of its remaining MP.

Example 2:

Airmech wants to get to hex D from its starting position. Assume this is the only path it can take, and that the level 3 hex is actually level 4. It cannot cross the level 4 hex without jumping over it, so it must perform a Jump Maneuver. The AirMech spends 5 MP to take off and chooses a clear and straight path to hex D (per BattleMech jumping rules it must move in a straight path and cannot exceed 5 levels) then spends 3 MP to land. The AirMech does a piloting skill check and rolls a 2, failing the roll (needed to beat a 5, piloting skill with no modifier). The AirMech falls in hex D and skids into hex C (Traveled 5 hexes, 5/4 = 1.25 or 1 hex). The AirMech takes damage from falling then from the skid. (To avoid this, the AirMech could have just converted into BattleMech or Fighter mode).

Example 3:

AirMech wants to get to hex B from its starting position.

The AirMech is already in flight mode and decides to use its cruising MP of 15 to move on a path from its starting hex to hex 1, 2, 3, then end in B. It moves 1 hex forward into hex 1, turns 1 hexside toward hex 2 and moves the path into hex 2, turns 1 hexside and moves the path into hex 3, and turns 1 more hexside and moves the path into hex B. It spends a total of 12 MP to move from its starting hex to hex B. The AirMech can move from hex 3 to hex B since it is a WiGE unit and can traverse water. If the ending hex was depth 1 water, it could also end there. It also has enough MP to choose what hex side it will face and even choose to land.

Let’s say that the AirMech has to take off to move from its starting position. Also, assume that all Level 1 terrain is level 4. It will have to use flanking MP to get to hex B. It spends 5 MP to take off then spends the MP to move to hex B (same as the previous example) for a total of 17 MP. In hex 1, 2, and 3, where it changed facing, it must make a check for side slipping (needed to beat a 5, piloting skill with no modifier). It faces the risk of sideslipping into restricted terrain (forest) or colliding into two different cliffsides.

EXAMPLE PICTURE:
« Last Edit: 28 October 2021, 01:02:18 by Fear Factory »
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #1 on: 21 October 2021, 17:18:30 »
AirMechs are still going to work like a WiGE but they can move around like a hovercraft thanks to VSTOL tech. It's a hybrid, sort of like a Harrier that actually works. So now, you don't need Tactical Operations to get the "turn mode" stuff (which, honestly, is really excessive). They still have to takeoff and land in order to move like one. If they use cruising MP they can maneuver around without having to worry about sideslipping. Once they hit Flanking MP, you're making the checks.

Turn Modes being required somehow got introduced between the "Quick Start Rules" from Record Sheets 3085 Print, which was the last set of the rules I directly worked on, and Interstellar Operations production.  I can't find the published IO Beta to see if they were in there.

Beyond that, I think the rules as-is (which are essentially RS 3085 Print rules) are pretty close to what you're looking for, even with the sideslip rules:  LAMs spend MP to take off, land or hover in place, but unlike a WiGE can spend MP to increase their altitude, kind of like a VTOL, though the cost is different because they're combining wings and thrust to do so.
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Fear Factory

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #2 on: 21 October 2021, 17:29:22 »
Turn Modes being required somehow got introduced between the "Quick Start Rules" from Record Sheets 3085 Print, which was the last set of the rules I directly worked on, and Interstellar Operations production.  I can't find the published IO Beta to see if they were in there.

Beyond that, I think the rules as-is (which are essentially RS 3085 Print rules) are pretty close to what you're looking for, even with the sideslip rules:  LAMs spend MP to take off, land or hover in place, but unlike a WiGE can spend MP to increase their altitude, kind of like a VTOL, though the cost is different because they're combining wings and thrust to do so.

Turn Modes really made them unusable for the casual player. It's a pain in MegaMek, but I can't see myself bothering to use them on the tabletop because of it. Lots of mistakes will be made.

I kind of like this better. It can do all of the same stuff as a WiGE, with Hovercraft movement, but has to perform a "jump maneuver" to jump (BattleMech mode can only perform a traditional Jump). It gives them better movement capabilities without losing an incentive to use the other modes:
« Last Edit: 21 October 2021, 21:34:06 by Fear Factory »
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RifleMech

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #3 on: 22 October 2021, 02:21:11 »
The aerospace targeting modifiers was bad. The Turn Modes are  terrible. The whole reason for these nerfs is because AirMechs are so fast. Not. Especially not with the +1MP for flying at Elevations 2+. Which I actually don't mind. But the fastest AirMechs can maybe hit 40MP. There's a Fireball that can do that. The slowest AirMechs, those that haven't lost a JJ, only move at 9/14. There's Mechs that move 10/15. So AirMechs are not fast. Those nerfs aren't needed. I just treat flying AirMechs as other airborne units and grounded AirMechs as ground units.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #4 on: 22 October 2021, 05:42:42 »
The aerospace targeting modifiers was bad. The Turn Modes are  terrible. The whole reason for these nerfs is because AirMechs are so fast. Not. Especially not with the +1MP for flying at Elevations 2+. Which I actually don't mind. But the fastest AirMechs can maybe hit 40MP. There's a Fireball that can do that. The slowest AirMechs, those that haven't lost a JJ, only move at 9/14. There's Mechs that move 10/15. So AirMechs are not fast. Those nerfs aren't needed. I just treat flying AirMechs as other airborne units and grounded AirMechs as ground units.

Most of my time using them these days is using MegaMek, where I don't really have a choice, but for my own table, I'd probably just use the RS 3085 Print rules for AirMech movement.

And, yeah, I found the thread from Interstellar Operations Beta where LAMs got capped at a +3 defensive movement modifier:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/io-beta-lam-rules-mind-blowing-discovery/
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monbvol

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #5 on: 22 October 2021, 17:56:28 »
The aerospace targeting modifiers was bad. The Turn Modes are  terrible. The whole reason for these nerfs is because AirMechs are so fast. Not. Especially not with the +1MP for flying at Elevations 2+. Which I actually don't mind. But the fastest AirMechs can maybe hit 40MP. There's a Fireball that can do that. The slowest AirMechs, those that haven't lost a JJ, only move at 9/14. There's Mechs that move 10/15. So AirMechs are not fast. Those nerfs aren't needed. I just treat flying AirMechs as other airborne units and grounded AirMechs as ground units.

That Fireball is using both MASC and a Supercharger to pull that off though.  So even using it is a risk.  The LAM in the mean time rolls no such checks turn after turn in terrain that said Fireball may not even be able to exercise that option.  As such to me it is a very onion to apple comparison to make.

Though looking through the VTOL and WiGE options we do have to compare to it's not like we have a lot of those getting much up over 20mp either.

Personally I think a better approach would have been jump MPx2 and calculate flank from that.  Could almost let them move like a VTOL with that with the exception of no reverse.  I'll have to look at some numbers but I feel reasonably confident the highest realistic jump mp you can get out of a LAM with tech constraints is 9 in mech mode.  18/27 would still be a very respectable speed and rules as written 27/41 does seem a bit much.

Fear Factory

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #6 on: 22 October 2021, 18:08:06 »
Most of my time using them these days is using MegaMek, where I don't really have a choice, but for my own table, I'd probably just use the RS 3085 Print rules for AirMech movement.

And, yeah, I found the thread from Interstellar Operations Beta where LAMs got capped at a +3 defensive movement modifier:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/io-beta-lam-rules-mind-blowing-discovery/

Man that's an old thread. That cap was probably the worst decision along with turn modes. It was an obvious ploy to put the final nail in the coffin for using LAM's.

The stuff I came up with is pretty much what you did. I actually like WiGE movement for them, it totally makes sense and I love how they can move over hills, water, rough, with ease. Only difference is Jumping (now a maneuver instead of a regular jump to encourage BattleMech mode use) and there is no ability to change elevation like a VTOL (to encourage using Aerospace mode). No need for the +3 cap, turn modes, any of that garbage.

EDIT:

Also, worth noting that they can't move into woods or buildings. They're really only useful on clear terrain, which can be a problem for them if someone has artillery or cluster rounds.
« Last Edit: 22 October 2021, 18:20:31 by Fear Factory »
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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #7 on: 22 October 2021, 21:58:23 »
I'm still fond of pulling the aerospace thrust/velocity in for the hybrid mode, since that is part fighter, part Mech.  Would need some tweaks to the thrust values, but it would also be a means of getting people used to the space/air combat rules and making playing some space games less 'scary' for not-so-first-timers.

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RifleMech

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #8 on: 23 October 2021, 00:13:48 »
Most of my time using them these days is using MegaMek, where I don't really have a choice, but for my own table, I'd probably just use the RS 3085 Print rules for AirMech movement.

And, yeah, I found the thread from Interstellar Operations Beta where LAMs got capped at a +3 defensive movement modifier:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ground-combat/io-beta-lam-rules-mind-blowing-discovery/



Maybe if I ever get another PC I can try megamek again.

I don't mind most of the AirMech's movement rules. It's the Turn Modes and modifiers that bug me.


That Fireball is using both MASC and a Supercharger to pull that off though.  So even using it is a risk.  The LAM in the mean time rolls no such checks turn after turn in terrain that said Fireball may not even be able to exercise that option.  As such to me it is a very onion to apple comparison to make.

It also has an XXL Engine. Even without using the Supercharger or MASC, that Fireball is still plenty fast. I believe 16/24. It doesn't have to deal with turn modes either. AirMechs have to deal with Turn Modes and Side slipping. So the AirMech risks crashing just by moving, while the Fireball can turn on a dime.

Quote
Though looking through the VTOL and WiGE options we do have to compare to it's not like we have a lot of those getting much up over 20mp either.

So? My car isn't going to do 200mph. That doesn't mean we limit NASCAR races to highway speeds. VTOL's also don't lose speed when flying higher than Elevation 1.


Quote
Personally I think a better approach would have been jump MPx2 and calculate flank from that.  Could almost let them move like a VTOL with that with the exception of no reverse.  I'll have to look at some numbers but I feel reasonably confident the highest realistic jump mp you can get out of a LAM with tech constraints is 9 in mech mode.  18/27 would still be a very respectable speed and rules as written 27/41 does seem a bit much.

AirMechs couldn't function at 2xJMP. At the minimum a slow AirMech would only have 9MP. It takes 5MP just to take off and they have to move 5 hexes to stay airborne. At 2xJMP an AirMech could only hover. It simply wouldn't have enough MP to WiGE about, at elevation 1 much less get up to elevation 25.

Yes, most LAMs are going to be faster but if the rules don't work for the slowest units, they don't work. The additional +1 per hex at elevation 2+ slows AirMechs just fine. That 41MP quickly becomes 20. Even if a Mech is also slowed by terrain, the mech can use tech to compensate. It can even Sprint. AirMech's can't use Overdrive and only gain 1 MP for every 3 MP they descend. Which doesn't help all that much when descending from flying at higher elevations because they're still paying 2MP per hex.



 
Man that's an old thread. That cap was probably the worst decision along with turn modes. It was an obvious ploy to put the final nail in the coffin for using LAM's.

The stuff I came up with is pretty much what you did. I actually like WiGE movement for them, it totally makes sense and I love how they can move over hills, water, rough, with ease. Only difference is Jumping (now a maneuver instead of a regular jump to encourage BattleMech mode use) and there is no ability to change elevation like a VTOL (to encourage using Aerospace mode). No need for the +3 cap, turn modes, any of that garbage.

EDIT:

Also, worth noting that they can't move into woods or buildings. They're really only useful on clear terrain, which can be a problem for them if someone has artillery or cluster rounds.

Actually, AirMechs can increase their Elevation up to Elevation 25. It just costs 1MP change elevations and 2MP per hex above Elevation 1.

AirMechs can also go into woods and buildings but only if they crash or walk. Now we have ProtoMechs and BA which would be more effective but before them, AirMechs could walk into places other Mechs couldn't go into. AirMechs ability to fly over forests and other terrain is an advantage too. Expensive tech can help compensate but it's expensive. 



monbvol

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #9 on: 23 October 2021, 08:38:02 »
It also has an XXL Engine. Even without using the Supercharger or MASC, that Fireball is still plenty fast. I believe 16/24. It doesn't have to deal with turn modes either. AirMechs have to deal with Turn Modes and Side slipping. So the AirMech risks crashing just by moving, while the Fireball can turn on a dime.

There are terrain types where it is impossible to run, others where the mech can get stuck, and others where the ability to simply ignore them will come in handy.

Quote
So? My car isn't going to do 200mph. That doesn't mean we limit NASCAR races to highway speeds. VTOL's also don't lose speed when flying higher than Elevation 1.

AirMechs couldn't function at 2xJMP. At the minimum a slow AirMech would only have 9MP. It takes 5MP just to take off and they have to move 5 hexes to stay airborne. At 2xJMP an AirMech could only hover. It simply wouldn't have enough MP to WiGE about, at elevation 1 much less get up to elevation 25.

Yes, most LAMs are going to be faster but if the rules don't work for the slowest units, they don't work. The additional +1 per hex at elevation 2+ slows AirMechs just fine. That 41MP quickly becomes 20. Even if a Mech is also slowed by terrain, the mech can use tech to compensate. It can even Sprint. AirMech's can't use Overdrive and only gain 1 MP for every 3 MP they descend. Which doesn't help all that much when descending from flying at higher elevations because they're still paying 2MP per hex.

If we retain WiGE movement rules as written they do allow WiGEs to ignore the 5 hex movement requirement the turn they take off.  We also have a published WiGE that is only 5/8.  These revisions still present a minimum of 6/9.  So at absolute slowest it'd be difficult to use but no worse than the majority of published WiGEs.

Now since part of my proposal is starting to lean toward we could give them VTOL but no reverse option that would neatly solve a lot of the other problems about using them effectively as they'd generate no higher target movement modifiers than the fastest VTOLs published.

Turn modes then could be put back in it's proper place of only if all units are to use it too.  You'd get no argument from me on that change.

Fear Factory

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #10 on: 23 October 2021, 10:12:33 »
Actually, AirMechs can increase their Elevation up to Elevation 25. It just costs 1MP change elevations and 2MP per hex above Elevation 1.

AirMechs can also go into woods and buildings but only if they crash or walk. Now we have ProtoMechs and BA which would be more effective but before them, AirMechs could walk into places other Mechs couldn't go into. AirMechs ability to fly over forests and other terrain is an advantage too. Expensive tech can help compensate but it's expensive.

Oh. Yeah I know that. Probably should have been more clear... in the ruleset I made they can't do that. I mean, they could, but they would need level 24 terrain and would spend the MP to keep that elevation. I want them to be able to move on clear and hill terrain without any of the "turn mode" garbage. They still hover, but they can't do the VTOL thing. I figured that was a good way to push them to use other modes. If you can't maneuver around a city or forest, or if there are units on the board blocking your path, you'll need the other modes.

They don't need a TMM cap, either. Actually, that wouldn't have been a problem if they just stopped the TMM chart at +4 like it was way back in the day. Once again new tech/Clan tech is the problem because higher TMM's can avoid pulse lasers. The TMM cap and Turn Modes are totally there to make LAM's so unplayable you'll never see them again. TPTB can argue around that all they want, you can totally see the bias in their decisions.
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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #11 on: 23 October 2021, 10:31:43 »
I would like to point out that the TMM cap was done away with in the production version of IO. TPTB certainly saw some value in the approach, but ultimately discarded it. I would like to think that my few posts about actually playing it out had something to do with that. I can't think of any other reason I got a mention in the book.
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #12 on: 23 October 2021, 11:36:10 »
I would like to point out that the TMM cap was done away with in the production version of IO. TPTB certainly saw some value in the approach, but ultimately discarded it. I would like to think that my few posts about actually playing it out had something to do with that. I can't think of any other reason I got a mention in the book.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #13 on: 23 October 2021, 22:56:48 »
There are terrain types where it is impossible to run, others where the mech can get stuck, and others where the ability to simply ignore them will come in handy.

Sure and there's also places airmechs can't really operate to well in either. Like underwater. It doesn't change the fact that AirMechs have a far greater chance of crashing, just operating than any other unit. Even when those units are moving much faster than them.

Quote
If we retain WiGE movement rules as written they do allow WiGEs to ignore the 5 hex movement requirement the turn they take off.  We also have a published WiGE that is only 5/8.  These revisions still present a minimum of 6/9.  So at absolute slowest it'd be difficult to use but no worse than the majority of published WiGEs.

Has there been a change in the rules? My edition of IO says.
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A LAM must also pay 5 MP for take-off required of WiGE vehicles, and must move a minimum of 5 hexes each turn to remain aloft (see Hovering, below, for an exception).
I also didn't see anything in the errata that changes this, unless another one has come out. And it's that minimum movement that's the issue. The extra requirement for LAMs to move 5 hexes when taking off isn't something WiGEs have to deal with. So LAMs still have to have a minimum of 10 MP to take off. 6/9 won't work.

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Now since part of my proposal is s tarting to lean toward we could give them VTOL but no reverse option that would neatly solve a lot of the other problems about using them effectively as they'd generate no higher target movement modifiers than the fastest VTOLs published.

Would AirMechs still be paying 2MP per hex at elevations 2+? If so, with only 2xJMP that's too much of a nerf. Going by that a 6/9 AirMech could only move 4 hexes at elevation 2+. VTOL Infantry move faster than that.

Quote
Turn modes then could be put back in it's proper place of only if all units are to use it too.  You'd get no argument from me on that change.

That only place they should be is optional. :thumbsup:

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #14 on: 23 October 2021, 23:03:01 »
If they can fly as an aerospace fighter VTOL movement isn't necessary. That's why I like them as WiGE with some hovercraft traits. No turn modes, no minimum movement because of VSTOL, no TMM cap... I want them to be different, but in a way that there is still a reason to change into a 'Mech or Fighter.

1 - WiGE movement, hovercraft hybrid. No minimum movement to keep its flight but still has to spend MP to take off. Can choose to land like a WiGE at will for no MP. Sideslip risk while moving at flanking speed.

2 - Same slow ground movement when walking/running. Terrain restrictions still apply (can't move into forests as its wings are still out).

3 - No more turn modes.

4 - Can't use jump jets like a 'Mech. However, can spend all cruising MP to make a jump maneuver. More risky than changing into a 'Mech to jump since you can fall and skid. Also more heat. This is as close to a VTOL you can get: You could jump on high terrain and spend the MP as a WiGE to keep the elevation. Like, jumping on a level 4 building and keeping the elevation to move toward another building nearby. I feel like if you want to fly you should change into a fighter. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.

5 - NOT A VTOL. At all.

So here's the idea. These units are going to do great in open terrain and over hills that agree with their movement where they can retain their TMM advantage. Thing is, there are weapons that are available that can counter that. Pulse lasers, artillery, flak, precision rounds, etc. Also, if they're in tight spaces, even if the terrain between that is clear, all it takes is something to block its path. Having them work like a VTOL isn't going to solve that. Letting them jump like a BattleMech isn't going to solve that. This is where BattleMech mode looks good. They're not going to clear a forest or a bunch of buildings in AirMech mode unless they have the starting height OR unless you, I don't know, CHANGE INTO A FIGHTER.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2021, 23:28:35 by Fear Factory »
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RifleMech

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #15 on: 23 October 2021, 23:16:52 »
Oh. Yeah I know that. Probably should have been more clear... in the ruleset I made they can't do that. I mean, they could, but they would need level 24 terrain and would spend the MP to keep that elevation. I want them to be able to move on clear and hill terrain without any of the "turn mode" garbage. They still hover, but they can't do the VTOL thing. I figured that was a good way to push them to use other modes. If you can't maneuver around a city or forest, or if there are units on the board blocking your path, you'll need the other modes.

They don't need a TMM cap, either. Actually, that wouldn't have been a problem if they just stopped the TMM chart at +4 like it was way back in the day. Once again new tech/Clan tech is the problem because higher TMM's can avoid pulse lasers. The TMM cap and Turn Modes are totally there to make LAM's so unplayable you'll never see them again. TPTB can argue around that all they want, you can totally see the bias in their decisions.


Sorry, I'm no following you. AirMechs do pay MP to go over things. It costs 1 MP to change elevations. At elevation 2+ it costs 2 MP per hex. So to get over a 2 Level Forest an AirMech would have to pay 2 MP to climb from elevation 1 to elevation 3 to clear the trees. Then it would be paying 2 MP per hex instead of the 1 MP per hex at elevation 1. So AirMechs are twice as slow flying higher.


I would like to point out that the TMM cap was done away with in the production version of IO. TPTB certainly saw some value in the approach, but ultimately discarded it. I would like to think that my few posts about actually playing it out had something to do with that. I can't think of any other reason I got a mention in the book.

Are you referring to the AirMech Attacker Modifiers Table? It does top out at +4 when Flanking in AirMech Mode. That's actually worse than the RS:3085 Print's Quick Start Guide. In it Walking was +1, Running +2, Cruising +2 and Flanking was +3. +1 was added in IO for Cruising and Flanking. :(


If they can fly as an aerospace fighter, VTOL movement isn't necessary. That's why I like them as WiGE with some hovercraft traits. No turn modes, no minimum movement because of VSTOL, no TMM cap...


LAMs fly as a fighter in Fighter Mode. In AirMech mode they're a kind of cross between WiGE and VTOL. They can hover which WiGEs can't but flying higher than elevation 1 costs them twice the MP, unlike VTOLs.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #16 on: 23 October 2021, 23:30:49 »
SNIP

Sorry, edited my post.

My thing is, I don't want AirMechs getting a VTOL ability. Defeats the purpose of changing into a fighter if you can just zoom over crap as a helicopter.

EDIT:

This thread was about the rules I came up with to replace how AirMechs currently work. This is where I am coming from. My rules are very similar, but a lot easier to use, and made to keep the utility to use other modes by restricting them in a different way.

I see an AirMech as a super advanced Harrier. It has that clunky BattleTech vibe which is also why I thought the jump maneuver would fit that.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2021, 23:43:14 by Fear Factory »
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monbvol

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #17 on: 24 October 2021, 07:33:53 »
Sure and there's also places airmechs can't really operate to well in either. Like underwater. It doesn't change the fact that AirMechs have a far greater chance of crashing, just operating than any other unit. Even when those units are moving much faster than them.

Underwater is not a great environment for many units.

It is also very possible to near eliminate, completely so under many circumstances, that possibility of crashing under rules as written.

Considering how few units can actually truly match a current WiGE in mobility, let alone possibly exceed it and then often have to have pretty ideal conditions to do it, it's actually a bit of an issue how easily they can ignore things if they want to.

Quote
Has there been a change in the rules? My edition of IO says.  I also didn't see anything in the errata that changes this, unless another one has come out. And it's that minimum movement that's the issue. The extra requirement for LAMs to move 5 hexes when taking off isn't something WiGEs have to deal with. So LAMs still have to have a minimum of 10 MP to take off. 6/9 won't work.

Okay that is a bit of a change from standard WiGE rules that do allow true WiGEs to ignore the move 5 hexes the turn they take off.

Quote
Would AirMechs still be paying 2MP per hex at elevations 2+? If so, with only 2xJMP that's too much of a nerf. Going by that a 6/9 AirMech could only move 4 hexes at elevation 2+. VTOL Infantry move faster than that.

I am leaning full VTOL if going Jump*2 with only the no going backwards being retained.  But I can grant more thought may need to be put into how good of an idea this may be and if other changes may need to be made.

Quote
That only place they should be is optional. :thumbsup:

Turn modes are honestly one of the least likely rules to ever see use at my table because the way I read them they seem to be a headache to correctly implement.

Sorry, edited my post.

My thing is, I don't want AirMechs getting a VTOL ability. Defeats the purpose of changing into a fighter if you can just zoom over crap as a helicopter.

EDIT:

This thread was about the rules I came up with to replace how AirMechs currently work. This is where I am coming from. My rules are very similar, but a lot easier to use, and made to keep the utility to use other modes by restricting them in a different way.

I see an AirMech as a super advanced Harrier. It has that clunky BattleTech vibe which is also why I thought the jump maneuver would fit that.

Rules as written with the Jump*3 they can already just zoom over a lot of terrain and to an extent they need to with the small reserves of fuel they have for fighter mode.

Yes I know you can design them to have more fuel but with their already tight mass constraints with everything else they have to pay for even one ton starts becoming more precious and a bigger deal in determining if your LAM can achieve it's mission or not depending on how it is spent.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #18 on: 24 October 2021, 10:32:27 »
Rules as written with the Jump*3 they can already just zoom over a lot of terrain and to an extent they need to with the small reserves of fuel they have for fighter mode.

Yes I know you can design them to have more fuel but with their already tight mass constraints with everything else they have to pay for even one ton starts becoming more precious and a bigger deal in determining if your LAM can achieve it's mission or not depending on how it is spent.

It's Jump * 3 but it's not jump movement.... it's "crusing" speed, or WiGE movement.

WiGE's can't just zoom over a lot of terrain. They can only zoom over clear or hilly terrain which is exactly what I want. The hills have to be in a 1,2,3,4.. change in order for them to gain any elevation. They can only traverse over 1 level without penalty.

Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlDNcQE4N3Q

WiGE's DO NOT work like VTOLs. They can't change their elevation at will. In order for a WiGE to do that they have to start from a hex with a level they can get to. If they start from a level 2 hex they can move over level 0 terrain or woods while retaining that height. This will cost 2 MP per hex and they will decend to their normal elevation at the end of their movement. So yeah, they can clear wooded or other types of terrain, but they really REALLY have to pay for it to do so. Which is what I want, because an LAM should either turn into a BattleMech or Fighter at that point instead of using one god-tier mode.
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monbvol

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #19 on: 24 October 2021, 11:18:04 »
It's Jump * 3 but it's not jump movement.... it's "crusing" speed, or WiGE movement.

WiGE's can't just zoom over a lot of terrain. They can only zoom over clear or hilly terrain which is exactly what I want. The hills have to be in a 1,2,3,4.. change in order for them to gain any elevation. They can only traverse over 1 level without penalty.

Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlDNcQE4N3Q

WiGE's DO NOT work like VTOLs. They can't change their elevation at will. In order for a WiGE to do that they have to start from a hex with a level they can get to. If they start from a level 2 hex they can move over level 0 terrain or woods while retaining that height. This will cost 2 MP per hex and they will decend to their normal elevation at the end of their movement. So yeah, they can clear wooded or other types of terrain, but they really REALLY have to pay for it to do so. Which is what I want, because an LAM should either turn into a BattleMech or Fighter at that point instead of using one god-tier mode.

Two nitpicks with that video:
1. True WiGEs do not need to move 5 hexes in the turn that they took off in.  This seems to be a specific exception for LAMs.

2. He probably should add the scenarios for using buildings to gain/maintain elevation.

For the rest I do not disagree that Airmech mode needs to be carefully considered so that Mech mode and Fighter mode each have a sufficient role.  I think rules as written come pretty close but definitely need to scrap that mandatory turn modes rule.  I just think might need to slow them down so that they don't so completely outperform WiGEs like they do now in terms of mobility.

I am prepared to grant Jump*2 is too much of a reduction without giving the LAM something else to make up for it at least a little.

Though the wording on page 108 versus the example on 109 for a LAM maintaining elevation are at odds with one another.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #20 on: 24 October 2021, 14:16:59 »
Yeah, I don't think slowing them down is a problem. That's where we disagree.

I know with buildings you would have to start with a level 1 structure and work your way up from 2, 3... to move between buildings you can only move at the levels +1/-1 your current level AND have to pay for the hexes between them (like in the example in the video where the WiGE is moving through that gap between hills).

Since LAM's have VSTOL... maybe it would be worth it if they have the ability to keep elevation or drop like they do (I believe) in the current rules. So the AirMech would move in that gap and stop 3 elevaitons high, choosing not to drop to 1 or land. It really doesn't seem necessary.

I just think if they have the ability to change levels like a VTOL they will totally control the board... maybe even worse than the original rules in the tactical handbook.

Turn modes totally need to go.
« Last Edit: 24 October 2021, 15:20:48 by Fear Factory »
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monbvol

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #21 on: 24 October 2021, 20:31:13 »
Yeah, I don't think slowing them down is a problem. That's where we disagree.

I know with buildings you would have to start with a level 1 structure and work your way up from 2, 3... to move between buildings you can only move at the levels +1/-1 your current level AND have to pay for the hexes between them (like in the example in the video where the WiGE is moving through that gap between hills).

Since LAM's have VSTOL... maybe it would be worth it if they have the ability to keep elevation or drop like they do (I believe) in the current rules. So the AirMech would move in that gap and stop 3 elevaitons high, choosing not to drop to 1 or land. It really doesn't seem necessary.

I just think if they have the ability to change levels like a VTOL they will totally control the board... maybe even worse than the original rules in the tactical handbook.

Turn modes totally need to go.

*shrug*

Their board control wouldn't be any worse than it is now since I'm not advocating for their AMMs to be reduced for while in Airmech mode.

I'm talking a slowest possible case of a Yellow Jacket(a 30 ton LAM can't even mount the same firepower) and a fastest case of 18/27 that is faster than any published VTOL but not by much.  Since LAMs can go up to 55 I am prepared to grant VTOL move mode for Airmech mode could be a little much when going outside of the bounds of what a VTOL can manage mass wise.

The current Jump*3 puts even the slowest possible LAM at 9/14 and the fastest published WiGE I can find is a 10/15.  That to me indicates they would actually have about as much board control as my proposal.

Still like I said I'm not firmly set on it as the best/final solution but if you're really worried about board control slowing down LAMs will help remedy that concern.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #22 on: 24 October 2021, 23:20:17 »
Sorry, edited my post.

My thing is, I don't want AirMechs getting a VTOL ability. Defeats the purpose of changing into a fighter if you can just zoom over crap as a helicopter.

EDIT:

This thread was about the rules I came up with to replace how AirMechs currently work. This is where I am coming from. My rules are very similar, but a lot easier to use, and made to keep the utility to use other modes by restricting them in a different way.

I see an AirMech as a super advanced Harrier. It has that clunky BattleTech vibe which is also why I thought the jump maneuver would fit that.

The thing is AirMechs don't really zip around like a VTOL. They fly higher than a WiGE but not as high as a VTOL and they fly slower. They don't really zip around like they did originally.

I also don't see AirMech mode as defeating fighter mode. Fighter mode gets the LAM were it needs to be or out of the area quickly. AirMech lets the LAM move about faster than a mech and avoid obstacles without using fuel, but it isn't as fast as a fighter.
If we were going to Harrier things, why have a LAM at all? ASF are VTOL capable, so just have them hover behind terrain.

Also it was AirMech jumps that were part of the problem. Do we really want to go back to that?   Right now it either moves similar to a WiGE or it hovers a little bit. And the hover is only good for popping up and around terrain and ducking down again.


RifleMech

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #23 on: 24 October 2021, 23:50:09 »
Underwater is not a great environment for many units.

It is also very possible to near eliminate, completely so under many circumstances, that possibility of crashing under rules as written.

Considering how few units can actually truly match a current WiGE in mobility, let alone possibly exceed it and then often have to have pretty ideal conditions to do it, it's actually a bit of an issue how easily they can ignore things if they want to.

That's true but regular mechs can still do it better in water than an AirMech.

Again true but that depends on a lot of careful planning, and is dependent upon the terrain and the opponent.

Actually, there's lots of terrain restrictions for WiGEs. They can't climb up and go over things. Lots of terrain blocks their movement. They can fly higher but only if the ground below them drops and only until the end of their turn at a cost of 2MP per hex.

Quote
Okay that is a bit of a change from standard WiGE rules that do allow true WiGEs to ignore the move 5 hexes the turn they take off.

Yeah. I don't mind it really but it means that the 3xJMP can't be messed with. It also means that if a LAM suffers JJ damage, it's going to be hurting a lot more than a regular mech would.

Quote
I am leaning full VTOL if going Jump*2 with only the no going backwards being retained.  But I can grant more thought may need to be put into how good of an idea this may be and if other changes may need to be made.

AirMechs can't fly backwards using WiGE Movement. I'm okay with the 2MP per hex when flying at Elevations 2+. That rule change never bothered me. It actually makes sense. It's higher so looses the ground effect so has to put more power into staying higher. Just like the WiGE, only the AirMech can stay up at the end of the turn. It also explains why hovering costs 5 MP. So while it doesn't bug me it does mean that AirMechs aren't always as fast as VTOLs.

Quote
Turn modes are honestly one of the least likely rules to ever see use at my table because the way I read them they seem to be a headache to correctly implement.

 :thumbsup: 

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #24 on: 25 October 2021, 00:21:00 »
For the rest I do not disagree that Airmech mode needs to be carefully considered so that Mech mode and Fighter mode each have a sufficient role.  I think rules as written come pretty close but definitely need to scrap that mandatory turn modes rule.  I just think might need to slow them down so that they don't so completely outperform WiGEs like they do now in terms of mobility.

Though the wording on page 108 versus the example on 109 for a LAM maintaining elevation are at odds with one another.

The 2 MP per hex when flying at elevation 2+ slows AirMechs down a lot. The slowest AirMech can only move 7 hexes in a straight line at that elevation. The fastest AirMech is only going to move 13 hexes. Most VTOLs are that fast or faster.

Yes, AirMechs move faster at elevation 1 but that does depend on the terrain. Over open terrain the AirMech may have the advantage in speed. In closed terrain, the VTOL is faster.

What conflict?


Yeah, I don't think slowing them down is a problem. That's where we disagree.

I know with buildings you would have to start with a level 1 structure and work your way up from 2, 3... to move between buildings you can only move at the levels +1/-1 your current level AND have to pay for the hexes between them (like in the example in the video where the WiGE is moving through that gap between hills).

Since LAM's have VSTOL... maybe it would be worth it if they have the ability to keep elevation or drop like they do (I believe) in the current rules. So the AirMech would move in that gap and stop 3 elevaitons high, choosing not to drop to 1 or land. It really doesn't seem necessary.

I just think if they have the ability to change levels like a VTOL they will totally control the board... maybe even worse than the original rules in the tactical handbook.

Turn modes totally need to go.


AirMechs can do that. They don't have to descend to elevation 1 at the end of their turn the way WiGEs do. They can keep flying at that elevation at 2MP per hex.

I know you're worried about a return to the old days but you don't need to. AirMechs may be able to fly up to Elevation 25 but it still costs them 2MP per hex to do so, plus the MP it costs to change elevations. They also still pay MP to turn like other units. Like I said above, the fastest AirMech is only going to be able to move 13 hexes in a straight line at elevation 2+. It'd also have 1 MP left over for a turn or climb. Many VTOLs are that fast or faster. The AirMech isn't going to control the board anymore than a VTOL could and the VTOL will likely have greater firepower.



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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #25 on: 25 October 2021, 04:03:06 »
On the jump maneuver in AirMech mode...how about this as an alternative: your AirMech jumps its normal jump MP plus the bonus +2 MP it would get for having a partial wing, but otherwise jumps like a BattleMech.

So, your AirMech movement options would be:

AirMech Walk = 'Mech Walk /3
AirMech Run = AirMech Walk * 1.5
AirMech Jump = 'Mech Jump + 2
AirMech Flying Cruise = 'Mech Jump * 3
AirMech Flying Flank = AirMech Flying Cruise * 1.5

Beyond that, for me personally, I think the only thing I'd drop from Interstellar Operations is the Turn Modes requirement: make it optional, such that if it's being used for WiGE movement at your table, then, yes, the AirMech needs to follow it, too, but if it's not being used at your table, then it doesn't.
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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #26 on: 25 October 2021, 05:31:05 »
The whole issues stems from trying to keep Battlemechs as the "Kings of the Battlefield" mentality that has to this day hampered all other type of units.

The unpleasant truth even within the game has always been that Battlemechs are not all that(Overpriced, Under-gunned, and Slow for the cost), and have never been, but they have to keep this myth of Mech superiority going or you don't really have a game.   

The issues with LAMs come from their origins. They are a relic of the original ideas behind the game as a sudo-tribute to the mecha animes of the 80s. The problem comes from the fact that in their respective series LAM/Veritech/Etc. are the top of the line units and the Battlemech/Destroid/Etc. are just support units. So this brings with it the issues of how do you have both, but switch the roles so the Battlemech is the better unit. The answer is you throw so many handicaps/restrictions on the LAM as to make it next to useless, or in the new rules case, so rule heavy to play that most players wouldn't devote the time.

The thing is, by in-universe lore/stories the LAM is a superiors unit to the Battlemech, and had whole battalions devoted to them in the SLDF, but that doesn't fit with the "Kings of the Battlefield" mentality of the boardgame so first they tries the "They are rare/extinct" angle, and when that didn't work they went for the super-restrictive rule approach.

So this leaves you with two options depending on your feelings about the "Kings of the Battlefield" myth.
1. If you want to keep Battlemechs on top use the RAW.
2. If you (Like myself) Don't believe the hype, use the optional fan rule you find the best fit for you game/vision of the BTU.

Personally, I just use the rules for Battlemech when in Battlemech mode, the rules for fighters when in fighter mode, and the rules for Battlemechs with extended jump (Jump x 3) with a landing and take-off cost of 1 when in AirMech mode.
It's simple gets the job done and is rules light.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #27 on: 25 October 2021, 09:17:01 »
The conflict of page 108 versus 109 of IO is that the rule for maintaining elevation does not include the word "additional" so it reads as if it only costs a LAM 2 MP instead of the WiGE's 3 MP to maintain elevation but the example of Airmech movement on 109 indicated that LAMs in Airmech mode do require the same total 3 MP as a true WiGE.  I've already asked for a clarification for which one is correct and grant this could significantly change where I stand on what needs to be done to make Airmech more reasonable.

I'm still of a mind Jump*3 is too much as it's pretty trivial to get a LAM up to 15/23 and the fastest WiGE I can find is only 10/15 and the upper limit for a LAM with Jump*3 does seem to be 27/41.

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #28 on: 25 October 2021, 09:40:04 »
On the jump maneuver in AirMech mode...how about this as an alternative: your AirMech jumps its normal jump MP plus the bonus +2 MP it would get for having a partial wing, but otherwise jumps like a BattleMech.

So, your AirMech movement options would be:

AirMech Walk = 'Mech Walk /3
AirMech Run = AirMech Walk * 1.5
AirMech Jump = 'Mech Jump + 2
AirMech Flying Cruise = 'Mech Jump * 3
AirMech Flying Flank = AirMech Flying Cruise * 1.5

Beyond that, for me personally, I think the only thing I'd drop from Interstellar Operations is the Turn Modes requirement: make it optional, such that if it's being used for WiGE movement at your table, then, yes, the AirMech needs to follow it, too, but if it's not being used at your table, then it doesn't.

For the jump maneuver I can just make the landing cost 3 mp instead of 5 and have the elevation max equal the unit's jump jet count. Fair enough.

The whole issues stems from trying to keep Battlemechs as the "Kings of the Battlefield" mentality that has to this day hampered all other type of units.

The unpleasant truth even within the game has always been that Battlemechs are not all that(Overpriced, Under-gunned, and Slow for the cost), and have never been, but they have to keep this myth of Mech superiority going or you don't really have a game.   

The issues with LAMs come from their origins. They are a relic of the original ideas behind the game as a sudo-tribute to the mecha animes of the 80s. The problem comes from the fact that in their respective series LAM/Veritech/Etc. are the top of the line units and the Battlemech/Destroid/Etc. are just support units. So this brings with it the issues of how do you have both, but switch the roles so the Battlemech is the better unit. The answer is you throw so many handicaps/restrictions on the LAM as to make it next to useless, or in the new rules case, so rule heavy to play that most players wouldn't devote the time.

The thing is, by in-universe lore/stories the LAM is a superiors unit to the Battlemech, and had whole battalions devoted to them in the SLDF, but that doesn't fit with the "Kings of the Battlefield" mentality of the boardgame so first they tries the "They are rare/extinct" angle, and when that didn't work they went for the super-restrictive rule approach.

So this leaves you with two options depending on your feelings about the "Kings of the Battlefield" myth.
1. If you want to keep Battlemechs on top use the RAW.
2. If you (Like myself) Don't believe the hype, use the optional fan rule you find the best fit for you game/vision of the BTU.

Personally, I just use the rules for Battlemech when in Battlemech mode, the rules for fighters when in fighter mode, and the rules for Battlemechs with extended jump (Jump x 3) with a landing and take-off cost of 1 when in AirMech mode.
It's simple gets the job done and is rules light.

That's essentially what the problem was with the old rules...

I mean, LAM's are still great. Shoot, the last few LAMs in this thread are actually cheaper than their BattleMech counterparts.
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Fear Factory

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Re: AirMech Movement: no longer a chore for the sake of being a chore.
« Reply #29 on: 25 October 2021, 17:15:12 »
On the jump maneuver in AirMech mode...how about this as an alternative: your AirMech jumps its normal jump MP plus the bonus +2 MP it would get for having a partial wing, but otherwise jumps like a BattleMech.

Yeah, I like that idea. I think I'm going to take it a little bit further though... I think I got the formula down to basically BattleMech running MP for takeoff/land cost with the rest going to distance. So it would be cruising MP minus running MP to get the distance.

EDIT: Actually, don't need all the math if it's done this way. :) Maneuver is just Running MP for movement, jumping MP height, full cruising MP heat.

A 5/8/5 AirMech spends base MP to take off, 1/2 base MP to land (3 in this case), and spends the remaining MP (7) to move with a jump height of base MP (5).

A 6/9/6 would take 6 to take off, 3 to land, jump height of 6 with 9 MP for movement.

Piloting skill roll with a +1 modifier to prevent a fall and skid after landing. A little more risk for a higher reward.

EDIT: Changed the download here and up top. Did the wrong one:
« Last Edit: 25 October 2021, 19:40:04 by Fear Factory »
The conflict is pure - The truth devised - The future secured - The enemy designed
Maj. Isaac "Litany" Van Houten, Lone Wolves, The Former 66th "Litany Against Fear" Company

 

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