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Author Topic: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?  (Read 32085 times)

monbvol

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #420 on: 26 April 2020, 18:23:39 »
That 120mm probably would be abstracted as some form of Artillery.  Tough to say which one since I am having difficulty finding actual performance data for it.

I'd be more than happy to abstract that Bofors 57mm L/70 as just a Heavy Rifle Cannon that as a matter of fluff fires bursts(much like any Battletech AC) based off the figures on the wiki.

Retry

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #421 on: 26 April 2020, 18:44:05 »
I wouldn't worry about trying to account for every possible iteration of ancient weapons and attaching stats to them.  Even I didn't do that in my "Battletech 2" project.

Sometimes it's okay to just abstract it away.

RifleMech

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #422 on: 26 April 2020, 21:49:44 »
That 120mm probably would be abstracted as some form of Artillery.  Tough to say which one since I am having difficulty finding actual performance data for it.

I'd be more than happy to abstract that Bofors 57mm L/70 as just a Heavy Rifle Cannon that as a matter of fluff fires bursts(much like any Battletech AC) based off the figures on the wiki.

Yeah. Wiki doesn't have a lot of info on it. :(  The point though was that "ancient" autocannons are going to be bigger than machine guns.

Then Rifles wouldn't be single shot weapons and the fluff was specific about that to make them separate from autocannons. 


I wouldn't worry about trying to account for every possible iteration of ancient weapons and attaching stats to them.  Even I didn't do that in my "Battletech 2" project.

Sometimes it's okay to just abstract it away.

I don't plan too. Just a representation is good enough for me. Not that I'd complain if Herb published stats of weapons he did for XTRO:1945.  ;)

Thing is we want to improve Rifle Cannons. If we know how Autocannons improved we can apply the same to the Rifles. So far we know they've become more reliable and gained some ammo. Their damage should also be -3.  If not then the -3 for Rifles is just a needless nerf. If ancient AC ammo is less than the Primitive Prototype ACs by the same amount then the ammo per ton has doubled between ancient and standard. The ancient ACs should also be less reliable than the PP ACs.

monbvol

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #423 on: 26 April 2020, 22:09:56 »
Yeah. Wiki doesn't have a lot of info on it. :(  The point though was that "ancient" autocannons are going to be bigger than machine guns.

Then Rifles wouldn't be single shot weapons and the fluff was specific about that to make them separate from autocannons.

The fluff I'm looking at says reduced rate of fire, not that they are exclusively single shot weapons.

Also pretty sure I remember an AC-20 that was fluffed as not firing a burst either but I can't remember which unit it was on so take that with a grain of salt for now.

RifleMech

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #424 on: 27 April 2020, 20:07:09 »
The fluff I'm looking at says reduced rate of fire, not that they are exclusively single shot weapons.

Also pretty sure I remember an AC-20 that was fluffed as not firing a burst either but I can't remember which unit it was on so take that with a grain of salt for now.

True but even with a lower rate of fire they're not the
Quote
rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic weaponry—gigantic machine guns, in other words
, that TM says autocannons are. The autoloating cannons I've posted have a rate of fire greater than any I've seen on a Tank.

I don't remember that one. I do remember one that fire 4 round bursts. The cannons I've posted recently have rates of fire greater than that so there should be ancient autocannons. They can still rely on greater concentrations of  propellant to deliver their damage. They just fire more rounds.

monbvol

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #425 on: 27 April 2020, 20:37:06 »
Yeah I can't find a single shot AC-20 again so either it is another class of AC which I probably will never find as a result or it probably never existed and my memory is playing tricks on me again.

But ultimately as much as I wish there were more variety of weapons for me to design units around in the low tech eras I'm not at all convinced anything modern warrants an entirely new weapon type with new rules to go with it as there seems to be plenty of things to abstract to where any rate of issues can be handled purely as curiosities of fluff.

Daryk

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #426 on: 27 April 2020, 20:39:10 »
Single shot 20 point weapon?  Long Tom Artillery Cannon...  ^-^

RifleMech

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Re: Should Vehicle/Mech Rifles be updated?
« Reply #427 on: 27 April 2020, 23:04:51 »
Yeah I can't find a single shot AC-20 again so either it is another class of AC which I probably will never find as a result or it probably never existed and my memory is playing tricks on me again.

But ultimately as much as I wish there were more variety of weapons for me to design units around in the low tech eras I'm not at all convinced anything modern warrants an entirely new weapon type with new rules to go with it as there seems to be plenty of things to abstract to where any rate of issues can be handled purely as curiosities of fluff.


Its not so much a new weapon type but a modification of an existing one. Which is exactly what this thread is about. Modifying an existing weapon. I'm just trying to work backwards than forwards.

According to Wiki the larger Tank Cannons with auto loaders have firing rates up to 12 rounds per minute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoloader  That's what the rules give them if you stick to the letter of the rules. 2 rounds per turn with 1 round per target with the split target rule. Otherwise both rounds hit the same target. Or not.  Now that might work for Rifle Cannons except that Rifles can't rapid fire. That'd be 4 rounds per turn. Or more depending on the fluff. Since Rifles have a lower rate of fire there should be Ancient Autocannons.