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Author Topic: Another Crack at Transport Bays  (Read 962 times)

Daryk

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Another Crack at Transport Bays
« on: 13 June 2021, 10:47:00 »
Transport Bays have come up here several times over the years.  Most people simply added "light" or "ultralight" versions of various bays.  Personally, I've always thought bays should be rated by their capacity, and have some amount of overhead tacked on to that.  Following that line of thought a bit further this weekend, I present the below.

ASF and Small Craft Bays are basically defined by their launching and recovery gear, so their overhead is fixed at 50 tons over the capacity of the bay.

'Mech bays that are full function (those on dedicated 'Mech Carriers) also require 50 tons over the capacity of the bay.

Less than full function 'mech bays (e.g., those crammed into Manatees, Seekers, et al.; I'll call them "''Mech Compartments") only require 20 tons of overhead, but have several drawbacks:
1) They have no capability to conduct orbital drops, or even drop non-jump capable 'mechs with drop chutes (they lack the catapult to clear the 'mech from the ship).  Jump capable 'mechs may attempt to debark, but need a Piloting roll with a +2 penalty to avoid damage to themselves and the carrying craft (equal to 1/10th the mass of the debarking 'mech to each).  If the craft takes damage in this fashion, the door is damaged and unusable until repaired, and the ship must make a control roll.
2) They impose the "Mobile Field Base" penalty (+1) on all maintenance, repair, and refit rolls.  StratOps, page 171 refers.
3) They do not include quarters for the pilot or support personnel.  These must be provided separately.

Full function Vehicle Bays weigh capacity plus 1 ton per 10 tons of capacity (or fraction thereof).  This means 45-ton and lighter vehicles can be transported in a standard "Light Vehicle Bay" (45 tons of vehicle plus 5 tons of overhead), but you could also fit a lance of APCs (10 tons of APC and 1 ton of overhead per bay) with plenty left over for the embarked infantry.  Yes, this also means you could cram two lances of Savannah Masters in the same space.

"Vehicle Compartments" are similar to "'Mech Compartments" above, and weigh capacity plus 1 ton per 20 tons of capacity with the following drawbacks:
1) Flying Spheroid ships are unable to deploy vehicles with drop chutes.  WiGE vehicles may attempt to debark from a hovering Spheroid as 'mechs with jump jets above, but with a +4 penalty.  Flying Aerodynes can attempt to deploy vehicles with drop chutes with a +4 penalty, while WiGEs only take a +2 penalty.  This assumes the Aerodyne is deploying them out the back, C-130 style.  Failed rolls have the same effect as failed 'mech piloting rolls.
2) They impose the "Mobile Field Base" penalty (+1) on all maintenance, repair, and refit rolls.  StratOps, page 171 refers.
3) They do not include quarters for the pilot or support personnel.  These must be provided separately.

Infantry/BA Compartments and Bays are already covered by the rules, with the simple addition of being able to divide platoon Bays into smaller squad Bays as desired.

idea weenie

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #1 on: 13 June 2021, 13:00:51 »
This looks like a few good ideas for transport bays, I'm Tagging this for reference

For the vehicle compartments, would adding a 'lifespan' be a good idea, so the designer knows how long people can be put into a Vehicle compartment before the crew and vehicles start taking penalties?  This way players will likely use Small Craft to deploy vehicles to a planet's surface.


Of course, now I am getting an idea where vehicles are stored on Small Craft for easy deployment, while the extra tonnage for the Vehicle Bay (and crew quarters) is kept on the Dropship.

I.e. four APCs are being deployed on a Small Craft.  The Small Craft allocates 40 tons for the APCs, and 2 tons for 'Vehicle Compartments'.  The Dropship containing the Small Craft Bay has four tons of Vehicle Bay to support the four 10-ton APCs (plus extra tonnage for the crews/passengers of the APCs).  The Dropship might have a single 10-ton Vehicle Bay on board, in case one of the vehicles needs better maintenance/repair than can be provided on board the Small Craft, for a total of 14 tons plus the crew accommodations.

This would be per Small Craft, so the Dropship might have twenty Small Craft, and 280 tons allocated to Vehicle Bays (plus extra tonnage for the crews/passengers of the APCs).  Each of the Small Craft would be used to deploy four 10-ton APCs, for a total of 80 of them.

Daryk

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #2 on: 13 June 2021, 14:08:10 »
I was figuring the "personnel in cargo bays" rule for "duration" in compartments.

Daryk

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #3 on: 15 May 2022, 00:51:59 »
Recent discussion elsewhere on the board has suggested that Transport Bays should have room for the AsTechs too (six of them, to be precise).  That works with the above at anything over a 10-ton vehicle bay.  A 10-ton (or less) vehicle bay only has enough room for six personnel, which is two short (meaning the extra two either sleep in the vehicle, or hot bunk with the others; double tapping the driver as an AsTech would cut this down to only one bunk short).

Alsadius

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #4 on: 16 May 2022, 12:53:42 »
Given that the game already tracks cargo tonnage, I'd rather just ignore the size of the unit within altogether, and count its mass as part of the ship's cargo allocation. That way you simplify designs a bit, because you don't need to worry about just how big the bays are - a mech bay stores one mech, and can do orbital drops etc. with it, while the mass of the mech is a load on the ship as a whole.

I have an old half-written proposal for major aerospace changes, but this part is complete. Crew need places to sleep aside from the bays themselves, if only to cover life support needs etc.

Code: [Select]
Mech Bay: 20 tons.
Vehicle Bay: 20 tons.
Fighter Bay: 20 Tons.
ProtoMech Bay: 10 tons.
Infantry Bay: 5 tons.
Small Craft Bay: 50 tons.

First-Class Cabin: 10 tons, luxurious
Second-Class Cabin: 7 tons, comfortable. Officers require at least second-class cabins.
Third-Class Cabin: 5 tons, serviceable. Ship crews require at least third-class cabins.
Bunk: 3 tons, spartan. Any passenger staying in a bunk for more than a week gets -1 to all rolls(piloting, gunnery, repairs, etc.) until they have been off the ship for one full day.

(Note: These quarters are heavier than BT norms, but they match pretty closely with weights from real-world passenger liners, as far as I could tell.)

I've also come up with a suggestion for repair facilities, which are intended to go along with the above, but also provide some economies of scale for dedicated repair arrangements. Hopefully that'll help explain why DropShips tend to specialize a bit. Again, these are just the weight of the facilities, not of the units therein.

Code: [Select]
Mech Repair Facility: 100 tons(1 mech), 300 tons(4 mechs), 800 tons(12 mechs), 2000 tons(36 mechs).
Vehicle Repair Facility: 100 tons(1 vehicle), 300 tons(4 vehicles), 800 tons(12 vehicles), 2000 tons(36 vehicles).
Fighter Repair Facility: 100 tons(1 fighter), 300 tons(4 fighters), 800 tons(12 fighters), 2000 tons(36 fighters).
ProtoMech Repair Facility: 50 tons(1 protomech), 150 tons(4 protomechs), 400 tons(12 protomechs), 1000 tons(36 protomechs).
Infantry Equipment Repair Facility: 20 tons(1 squad), 60 tons(4 squads), 150 tons(12 squads), 400 tons(36 squads).
Small Craft Repair Facility: 200 tons(1 small craft), 600 tons(4 small craft), 1500 tons(12 small craft), 4000 tons(36 small craft).

Sick Bay: 100 tons(10 patients), 300 tons(40 patients), 800 tons(120 patients), 2,000 tons(360 patients). Includes one operating theater per 10 patients.

Small DropShip Repair Facility(up to 2,500 tons): 500 tons(unpressurized), 1,500 tons(pressurized).
Medium DropShip Repair Facility(up to 12,000 tons): 1,000 tons(unpressurized), 3,000 tons(pressurized).
Heavy DropShip Repair Facility(up to 50,000 tons): 2,000 tons(unpressurized), 6,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station or unit of at least 100,001 tons.
Assault DropShip/Light JumpShip/Corvette Repair Facility(up to 100,000 tons): 4,000 tons(unpressurized), 12,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station or unit of at least 250,001 tons.
Medium JumpShip/Destroyer Repair Facility(up to 250,000 tons): 10,000 tons(unpressurized), 30,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station or unit of at least 750,001 tons.
Heavy JumpShip/Cruiser Repair Facility(up to 750,000 tons): 30,000 tons(unpressurized), 60,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station or unit of at least 1,500,001 tons.
Assault JumpShip/Battleship Repair Facility(up to 1,500,000 tons): 60,000 tons(unpressurized), 180,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station.
ArkShip/Dreadnought Repair Facility: 100,000 tons(unpressurized), 300,000 tons(pressurized) - must be in Space Station.

Daryk

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #5 on: 16 May 2022, 18:06:12 »
Interesting, but I prefer mine.  I tried to keep things closer to existing designs to minimize perturbations.

RifleMech

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #6 on: 27 May 2022, 23:03:06 »
I like that there should be some weight to a bay in addition to the unit it carries. Packing multiple units in though I don't think I'd go more beyond two. Not unless they're very small like motorcycles or jeeps. Unfortunately, size in Battletech is more about weight than dimensions. My pickup is longer than a Sherman but a whole lot lighter. I really doubt I could fit two pickups in the same parking space as a Sherman. The 188 ton Panzer VIII Maus is 33 feet long. I'm not going to get two of my trucks there or a Sherman. Not length wise. Putting trucks in side by side though might be possible. If the side mirrors come off and you go in through the window. Maybe stacked with one on a lift? Two Jeeps would fit though. Maybe more depending on how fast you want to off load. Motorized and Mechanized Infantry complicate things though since multiple Jeeps can fit in an Infantry bay under 10 tons but only 1 will fit in a 50 ton light vehicle bay.

Daryk

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2022, 05:03:02 »
Have you seen the deck plans I did for one of my games? ???

Specifically, the cargo bay: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/the-double-deuce-iiii-i-(3053)-toe/msg242403/#msg242403

RifleMech

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2022, 22:41:52 »
I hadn't til now. They look good.  :thumbsup:   I don't have a problem packing units in like that to maximize the space and tonnage. They wouldn't be deployed quickly but you'd get more in. The issue is that without actual dimensions of the bay how can you determine how many vehicles or mechs would fit in it?

I could see, maybe two compact vehicles (small cars and trucks) fitting in light to heavy bay and 3 in a superheavy. Twice that many for smaller vehicles like motorcycles and such.

Hmm. Is there a quirk for carrier aircraft? Those with folding parts to fit more in?




 

idea weenie

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2022, 23:11:46 »
Have you seen the deck plans I did for one of my games? ???

Specifically, the cargo bay: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/non-canon-units/the-double-deuce-iiii-i-(3053)-toe/msg242403/#msg242403

Looks interesting, is there a ship stats post for the design?  Are the squares supposed to be meters, demi-meters, multiple meters, or?  It appears to be 58 squares tall, 72 squares wide, and 71 squares long.  The 'Mech Bay appears to be 29 squares tall and 12 squares wide (based on the Elevation drawing, and measuring the middle 'Mech bay).

The original Manatee was 1900 tons, with a L/W/H of 37/35/31 meters, is that still true for this design?  Assuming an ellipse shape, that would put the canon design at about 21,000 cubic meters, for a density of about 9% that of water.
(Better than the Mule's design at ~80 meters L/W/H with a mass of 3600 tons, yielding a density ~1.34% that of water)

The nice part with packing Vehicles in with 'Mechs is that vehicles can be put on a second story while the 'Mechs take up both stories.  This is because vehicles are only 1 level in height, while 'Mechs are 2 levels in height.  So that Cargo bay would be repeated on the second floor, but with a note saying that the 'Mechs represent the upper half of the Mech Bay.  The Vehicle Bays on the upper level are likely the Light Vehicle Bays, to save effort done by the cargo elevator.

Daryk

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Re: Another Crack at Transport Bays
« Reply #10 on: 29 May 2022, 05:40:43 »
It's a Manatee with 'mech cubicles added.  The squares are half-meter, and there's an elevation drawing a few posts above what I linked.