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Author Topic: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)  (Read 573 times)

idea weenie

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Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« on: 19 November 2022, 05:12:39 »
Mechs with arm-mounted weapons can choose to use both arms to help aim their weapons.  The problem is that it requires the aiding arm to have all four arm actuators, they can only use the forward arc, blocks torso weapons, and cannot run/jump.

Fluff:
The Mechwarrior selects the weapon(s) on one arm and uses the actuators on the opposite arm to help aim it/them.

Game Rules:
- Using this aiming method gives a 1 pt bonus to-hit (maybe 2 pts bonus to-hit?).
- When using one arm to aid the other in aiming, the aiding arm must have all four different arm actuators intact (Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, and Hand)
- Since both arms are being used, that means the weapon can only be aimed into the arc that both arms can cover, aka the front arc
- Since the arms are in front of the Mech, this will block all torso weapons from firing
- Since the aiding arm has to be locked in place, this option can only be selected/deselected at the end of the turn, after the Firing Phase (so if you take this option, it will affect your movement on the next turn)
- Since the aiding arm has to be locked in place, this also affects the maneuverability of the Mech.  As a result, the Mech cannot move faster than Walk, and in addition takes a 2 pt Piloting penalty due to lack of flexibility in arm movement.

I'd see this primarily being used by Mechs that primarily have long-range weapons in one arm, as they can afford the lower flexibility caused by the Front arc limitation and don't have to worry about blocking torso-mounted weapons.

Likely to use:
- Panther w/PPC
- Phoenix Hawk w/ LL
- Thunderbolt with LL

Not likely to use:
- Stinger/Wasp w/ ML (too short a range to accept limitation)
- Daishi/Dire Wolf (no hand actuators)
- Archer w/ML (too short a range and will block torso LRM-20s)

Got the idea from seeing the various Transformers and Robotech movies where the Mecha would hold and fire the gun with one arm and brace it with the other.

VanVelding

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #1 on: 19 November 2022, 12:33:57 »
I initially thought that it sounded a lot like the Careful Shot rules, but I haven't read those in over a decade so when I reviewed them they're actually pretty different. It also sounds like Bracing, but bracing requires some terrain and being immobile.

Focusing on one weapon and cutting movement seem like a fair tradeoff for a more modest to-hit bonus.

I'm reminded of handheld weapon rules and shields. Both rule sets involve carrying something that involves blocking torso weapons. The rules for Arm-Aided Aiming could probably compacted if all those rules were rolled into a singular ruleset.

Alternatively, you could allow a 'mech to take a Bracing action without terrain and by being less mobile instead of immobile. Maybe add on a bonus to regular bracing.
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idea weenie

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #2 on: 19 November 2022, 23:24:47 »
I initially thought that it sounded a lot like the Careful Shot rules, but I haven't read those in over a decade so when I reviewed them they're actually pretty different. It also sounds like Bracing, but bracing requires some terrain and being immobile.

Focusing on one weapon and cutting movement seem like a fair tradeoff for a more modest to-hit bonus.

I'm reminded of handheld weapon rules and shields. Both rule sets involve carrying something that involves blocking torso weapons. The rules for Arm-Aided Aiming could probably compacted if all those rules were rolled into a singular ruleset.

Alternatively, you could allow a 'mech to take a Bracing action without terrain and by being less mobile instead of immobile. Maybe add on a bonus to regular bracing.

It isn't really focusing on one weapon, it is focusing on the weapons in one arm (I really should have brought in more examples).  A Centurion could use its left arm to brace its right arm, and all of its left arm weapons would be unusable.

A Phoenix Hawk with two lasers in its right arm (PXH-3D ?) would also be able to benefit.

I'd want to limit it to direct fire weapons only, as you can't really arm-aid a Swarm LRM Launcher.

Bracing rules might be a good idea to compare.  Since the unit is bracing itself instead of using a solid piece of terrain and still walking, it would not get as good of a bonus as Bracing but it wouldn't get the Immobile target modifier either.

So the spectrum would be:
Normal - Normal rules
Arm-aided - only benefits one arm, needs a hand on the other arm, limited movement, less to-hit benefit than braced, harder target than braced
Braced - existing rules, no movement, best to-hit bonus out of these three options, easiest for enemy to hit ignoring blocking terrain

VanVelding

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #3 on: 20 November 2022, 14:46:23 »
I didn't read carefully enough; that's my bad.

Looks good.
I also have a blog about gaming, comics, and news at vanvelding.blogspot.

garhkal

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #4 on: 20 November 2022, 15:17:46 »
Mechs with arm-mounted weapons can choose to use both arms to help aim their weapons.  The problem is that it requires the aiding arm to have all four arm actuators, they can only use the forward arc, blocks torso weapons, and cannot run/jump.

Fluff:
The Mechwarrior selects the weapon(s) on one arm and uses the actuators on the opposite arm to help aim it/them.

Game Rules:
- Using this aiming method gives a 1 pt bonus to-hit (maybe 2 pts bonus to-hit?).
- When using one arm to aid the other in aiming, the aiding arm must have all four different arm actuators intact (Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, and Hand)
- Since both arms are being used, that means the weapon can only be aimed into the arc that both arms can cover, aka the front arc
- Since the arms are in front of the Mech, this will block all torso weapons from firing
- Since the aiding arm has to be locked in place, this option can only be selected/deselected at the end of the turn, after the Firing Phase (so if you take this option, it will affect your movement on the next turn)
- Since the aiding arm has to be locked in place, this also affects the maneuverability of the Mech.  As a result, the Mech cannot move faster than Walk, and in addition takes a 2 pt Piloting penalty due to lack of flexibility in arm movement.

I'd see this primarily being used by Mechs that primarily have long-range weapons in one arm, as they can afford the lower flexibility caused by the Front arc limitation and don't have to worry about blocking torso-mounted weapons.

Likely to use:
- Panther w/PPC
- Phoenix Hawk w/ LL
- Thunderbolt with LL

Not likely to use:
- Stinger/Wasp w/ ML (too short a range to accept limitation)
- Daishi/Dire Wolf (no hand actuators)
- Archer w/ML (too short a range and will block torso LRM-20s)

Got the idea from seeing the various Transformers and Robotech movies where the Mecha would hold and fire the gun with one arm and brace it with the other.

Nice idea, but imo has way too many downsides, for little benefit.
IF it was just 'sacrifice your torso weaponry, to get the bonus, that would be a good trade off, but also adding in the slower move, AND PSR penalties, that's getting to where its making it NOT worth it imo.
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beachhead1985

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #5 on: 20 November 2022, 16:53:52 »
This is interesting.

Seems familiar though. Was this in some of the old advanced rule books?
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DevianID

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #6 on: 21 November 2022, 00:03:09 »
Providing any bonus to hit needs to have powerful downsides.  Bracing is immobile, need cover to brace against, and only 1 arm.  This gives a -2 to hit.  So your version which doesnt require cover could have a -1 if all other conditions remain... So immobile and only 1 arm can fire.

idea weenie

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #7 on: 21 November 2022, 06:38:10 »
Nice idea, but imo has way too many downsides, for little benefit.
IF it was just 'sacrifice your torso weaponry, to get the bonus, that would be a good trade off, but also adding in the slower move, AND PSR penalties, that's getting to where its making it NOT worth it imo.

Providing any bonus to hit needs to have powerful downsides.  Bracing is immobile, need cover to brace against, and only 1 arm.  This gives a -2 to hit.  So your version which doesnt require cover could have a -1 if all other conditions remain... So immobile and only 1 arm can fire.

This is how I know it is good.  I have one person saying it is too weak because there are too many downsides, and one person saying it is too strong because the Mech can still move.   ;D

DevianID

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Re: Arm-aided aiming (bonus to-hit, limited arc, reduced move)
« Reply #8 on: 22 November 2022, 00:17:00 »
LOL good point Idea Weenie.  Im super conservative about rules changes for battle value balanced play.  My point of view is that this rule will only be used when its a straight bonus where none existed before.  So a panther, at long range in a sniper nest, would get a bonus to hit with your rule.  He isnt giving anything up (his other weapon is an SRM which is out of range) thus the panther is trading a +2 piloting penalty in your draft rule for -1 or -2 to hit at long range.  Seeing as the panther isnt likely to take 20 damage, or even be shot at, at this range in his sniper hole, the panther would just use this bonus all the time and get a lot of free accuracy for pretty much nothing.  Bonus points for the Panther going prone and using your rule, if thats allowed, as now the panther cant even fall down.

Now, with the brace rule, instead of +2 to piloting, the Panther must have some elevation (meaning only certain spots on a map can be used) and the panther is immobile, meaning he WILL be shot back at with a massive -4, so the -2 brace bonus is countered by a very potent downside.  The panther isnt likely going to use the extra accuracy often.

Anyway, thats kinda my thinking when I say the rule is too powerful.  When your rule is in play, it would only be used in situations where its super oppressive, like a Phawk walking backwards at range 10 from a hunchback or something, or the panther sniper example.  And up close/when its a terrible idea, you just stop using the rule the turn before close contact and just enjoy your -1 or -2 when it completely benefits you for no cost.