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Author Topic: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles  (Read 6761 times)

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #30 on: 14 November 2019, 20:56:30 »
Hmmm... I think it's workable as a stand alone, but misses an opportunity for two or three weapons.

Here's the full set, including Sartris' request for 1 damage at 1 km range:
Code: [Select]
Weapon                       Type      Heat     Damage     Minimum   Short Medium  Long   Ammo   Tons   Criticals
Very Light Gauss Rifle       DB,X        1         5          4       1-9   10-18  18-27   24      9        4
Ultra Light Gauss Rifle      DB,X        1         3          5       1-10  11-20  21-30   32      6        3
Extremely Light Gauss Rifle  DB,X        1         1          6       1-11  11-22  21-34   50      4        2
If they take critical hits, the VLGR explodes for 10 points of damage, and the ULGR and ELGR for 5.

Hptm. Streiger

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #31 on: 15 November 2019, 05:40:40 »
Puny Magnetic cannon has a killing BV of 25 (4.2 BLF- you can drop the weight down to 3 and reduce heat to zero and increase ammo to 100 and still its the worst of all gauss rifles....

packhntr

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #32 on: 15 November 2019, 14:56:28 »
Nasty indeed!  I think I'd have called that an SMG or Carbine vice Pistol, but to each their own.

And I'm leaning toward the 4-ton, 3-crit solution for Sartris' range fixation...  ::)

Found the old ruleset we made.  3-ton, 2-crit.  We even had a "crazy tech" option... LOL.  Add on capacitors.  1t/1crit.  makes damage 6 per shot, increases all ranges by 2 hex.  Also added a chance of exploding if used sequentially like jamming for ultra ACs.
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #33 on: 15 November 2019, 20:03:05 »
What's the BV on an APGR again?  ???

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #34 on: 15 November 2019, 21:24:20 »
What's the BV on an APGR again?  ???
21

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #35 on: 15 November 2019, 21:27:53 »
Interesting, thanks... I think I'd value such a long range weapon a bit over an APGR too.

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #36 on: 15 November 2019, 21:31:44 »
Interesting, thanks... I think I'd value such a long range weapon a bit over an APGR too.
Sure, especially on a chopper or other fast mover.  APGR's more of a super MG than an anti-mech gun though.

Oh, one question: Is there a reason you went with 32/50 rounds for the two guns instead of 40/120 to standardize to 120 damage/ton like most of the other gauss rifles?  (Silver Bullet, APGR, HAGs, and the normal Gauss Rifle.)

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #37 on: 15 November 2019, 21:38:01 »
Just my opinion of game balance, really.  A standard 120 damage per ton is appealing, but makes opting for half a ton of ammo (or less) too easy for the lighter weapons.

Notsonoble

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #38 on: 18 November 2019, 17:39:07 »
Just my opinion of game balance, really.  A standard 120 damage per ton is appealing, but makes opting for half a ton of ammo (or less) too easy for the lighter weapons.
That would adjust my idea of only one more GR to:

Weapon                   Type      Heat     Damage     Minimum   Short Medium  Long   Ammo   Tons   Criticals
Ultra Light Gauss Rifle  DB,X        1         4          5       1-10  11-20  21-30   30      9        4
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Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #39 on: 18 November 2019, 19:42:14 »
Still very reasonable if only going with one additional rifle...  :thumbsup:

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #40 on: 18 November 2019, 20:05:19 »
Just my opinion of game balance, really.  A standard 120 damage per ton is appealing, but makes opting for half a ton of ammo (or less) too easy for the lighter weapons.
Interesting.  Personally, I don't consider that to be a big issue, but thanks for the explanation.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #41 on: 18 November 2019, 20:15:00 »
I'm a fan of Fractional Accounting, so when a mere quarter ton of ammo provides ample ammunition for anything bigger than a Machine Gun, I'm skeptical.  The Sartris Special would get 30 shots out of a quarter ton with a standard 120 points of damage per ton, and that just struck me as wrong for a weapon with a kilometer of range.

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #42 on: 18 November 2019, 20:22:24 »
I'm a fan of Fractional Accounting, so when a mere quarter ton of ammo provides ample ammunition for anything bigger than a Machine Gun, I'm skeptical.  The Sartris Special would get 30 shots out of a quarter ton with a standard 120 points of damage per ton, and that just struck me as wrong for a weapon with a kilometer of range.
I can see that point.  I think there's several non-MG weapons that would be sufficient with mere quarter-tons of ammo, and it wouldn't bother me at all if the ammo loads could be allocated in half and quarter-ton allotments even w/o Fractional Accounting. (SRM-2, SSRM-2, SLRM-5, and the AC/2)

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #43 on: 18 November 2019, 20:45:02 »
True, but those are all below 15 with a quarter ton, and that's about my limit for "ample".

Thunderbolt

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #44 on: 03 January 2020, 10:50:05 »
not to go against the "Dark Age" feel of the BTU, with "only a few factories still standing" churning out "only a few makes & models of remaining weapons"

but clearly all of these LGR designs follow an essentially predictable pattern of tonnages / damages / ranges...

ergo, they all adhere to some not-overly-complicated mathematical design formula...

you could hypothetically just define a design formula...

plug in tonnage, out comes damage / range / ammo per ton etc.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #45 on: 03 January 2020, 11:02:20 »
Honestly, I see that as a foundation stone of consistency, something I always strive for in rules.  Maybe its my physics training...

Thunderbolt

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #46 on: 04 January 2020, 01:40:36 »
Honestly, I see that as a foundation stone of consistency, something I always strive for in rules.  Maybe its my physics training...
in round numbers,

(damage x range) / (tons [+ton of ammo] + heat) = 10 [IS], 12 [SL], 16 [Clan]

but even the SL GR is 19-20, and the Clan's is 23-24

If a SL-tech-level ULGR masses 9 tons and generates [most of] 1 heat and requires [some of] 1 ton for ammo...

that's 10-11 in the denominator...

x(19-20) for SL-tech-level GRs is around 200...

so if it does only 5 damage...

it "ought" to have a range of ~40, maybe 36 if it generated 0 heat

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #47 on: 04 January 2020, 07:29:49 »
And that's why game balance is more art than science...

Thunderbolt

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #48 on: 04 January 2020, 08:34:25 »
You have play tested those designs, then?  You've observed a range of 36-40 for an ULGR destabilizing the game?

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #49 on: 04 January 2020, 09:06:08 »
Not yet, no.  But I also have yet to see a clear line of sight that long anywhere other than where maps meet (which I break up with terrain when I'm running a game).

idea weenie

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #50 on: 04 January 2020, 15:35:29 »
Not yet, no.  But I also have yet to see a clear line of sight that long anywhere other than where maps meet (which I break up with terrain when I'm running a game).

Would getting a character Quirk so they are medium and short-range specialists be helpful?  (So they get a bonus to hit if the target is at medium or short range)

A weapon with a much larger medium and short range category would be useful for them

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #51 on: 04 January 2020, 15:52:44 »
That would definitely be a solid way to exploit these weapons.

Thunderbolt

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #52 on: 12 January 2020, 07:40:58 »
Not yet, no.  But I also have yet to see a clear line of sight that long anywhere other than where maps meet (which I break up with terrain when I'm running a game).
well, whatever works well  :D

all I'm saying, is that the D x R / (T [+ammo] + H) = 10 rule basically describes all 3025 weapons

if you had some desire to maintain the D x R / (T [+ammo] + H) = 20 for SL GR's, while still keeping ranges R manageable, one could do so by (say) increasing the damage D of the weapons

For T = 6 & 9 tons (not including ammo), H = 0 or 1 HP each...  damages of around 5 & 7 would imply ranges around 30 or so... the LGR "ought" to do more like 10D

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #53 on: 12 January 2020, 10:29:53 »
No arguing with your math, but I think TPTB actually made a good call with the LGR.  10 damage would have made it a "must have" weapon.

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #54 on: 13 January 2020, 22:29:57 »
The LGR would be a solid weapon at damages of 8-10, though I feel 9 is the sweet spot.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #55 on: 14 January 2020, 04:20:04 »
Would be?  It does 8...  ???

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #56 on: 14 January 2020, 12:56:34 »
Would be?  It does 8...  ???
I meant if we were to theoretically change the LGR's damage, since Thunderbolt's talking about how much it "ought" to do.

Daryk

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Re: Even Lighter Gauss Rifles
« Reply #57 on: 14 January 2020, 17:16:45 »
Ah, gotcha… thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

 

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