Register Register

Author Topic: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)  (Read 696 times)

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4230
High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« on: 07 November 2022, 10:46:29 »
Hardened armor is composed of additional plates that help protect vs enemy attacks, but High-Density armor is essentially using higher density materials to cover the same surface area with armor that is thinner but just as protective.

The problem is that with smaller/thinner armor plates, there is a greater chance of a golden BB.

Rules:
Construction:
High-Density armor provides 8 pts of armor per ton and each point takes 2 pts of damage to destroy (like Hardened armor).

Combat:
The smaller plates mean there is a higher chance of an opponent getting a critical hit.  If the Mech is using solely High-Density Armor and mounts less than 15% of its mass in High-Density armor, when the Mech is hit roll two 2d6.  If any combination of the four d6 rolled results in a critical hit, use the other two dice to determine the location.  So 1&5, and 4&1 would mean a critical hit was scored, and the location would be based on the roll of 4+5=9.  Otherwise, the first two D6 rolled indicates the location, in this case 1+5=6.

If the Mech is using solely High-Density armor and has at least 15% of its mass and less than 30% of its mass as High-Density armor, then it still rolls two 2d6.  However only if a pair is a critical hit do you look at the other pair for the hit location.  Otherwise you use the first pair rolled.  So 1&2, and 1&4 is not a critical hit (the '1's are in separate rolls), so it is merely a normal hit on location 1+2=3.

A good idea is to use two pairs of colors for the dice, state which pair is the 'first' pair, and roll all four at the same time.

If the Mech has 30% or more of its mass in High-Density armor, then roll hit locations and crits as normal.



I went with 15% and 30% because most Mechs will max at 20% of their mass for normal armor, and 40% of their mass for Hardened armor.  By using compact armor plates this armor does not cause piloting troubles or penalize running, but the smaller plates mean that enemy shots are more likely to hit something important.

15% or less means every hit has a ~13% chance of getting a critical hit.
over 15% and less than 30% means every hit has a ~5.5% chance of getting a critical hit.

Rules for mounting High-Density vehicles, ASF, Dropships, Jumpships, Warships, and Space Stations have not been developed yet, I wanted to see how this armor works on Mechs first.

VanVelding

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 295
    • Powered by Indifference, Focused by Caffeine
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #1 on: 12 November 2022, 12:45:31 »
It seems like better hardened armor. Honestly, hardened armor without the drawbacks is better standard armor.

When the drawbacks do apply, it's fiddly. If you were to give it worse TAC resistance (both in general and from penetrating weapons), that would make it a more interesting option.
I also have a blog about gaming, comics, and news at vanvelding.blogspot.

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4230
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #2 on: 26 November 2022, 17:30:12 »
It seems like better hardened armor. Honestly, hardened armor without the drawbacks is better standard armor.

When the drawbacks do apply, it's fiddly. If you were to give it worse TAC resistance (both in general and from penetrating weapons), that would make it a more interesting option.

The armor is worse vs TAC, since you are rolling more D6 for the Hit Location.  A TAC needs snake eyes on the Hit Location (~3% of the time), while this armor at the same mass fraction as Standard armor will roll for crits 5.5% of the time or as much as 13% of the time.  The advantage is that you can mount more armor tonnage since it is smaller than Standard Armor.


What I wanted to do is make the armor durable enough to prevent the TAC to only the same rate as standard armor, the problem is that the higher density means the plates themselves are smaller unless you have enough tonnage.  In human terms instead of wearing full-torso body armor, you are wearing high-quality gear that mainly protects the heart and front of the lungs.

Retry

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1083
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #3 on: 26 November 2022, 19:40:20 »
So it's basically super Commercial Armor.

VanVelding

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 295
    • Powered by Indifference, Focused by Caffeine
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #4 on: 26 November 2022, 20:10:10 »
I get the advantages. I'm saying it's fiddly to calculate percentages and roll 2D6 twice when rolling hit locations. Is that for each hit location of, say, an LBX10?

If 4's, 5's, and 6's are disproportionately pulled from 4D6 rolls for location from 'mechs that mount 70-75% max armor, then you end up with 15/36 rolls pulling those numbers into determining critical hits and leaning hit locations towards the right side of the 'mech.

Even having two 2D6 rolls in which only the one which rolls 8+ is a critical hit will also pull the other numbers towards the right side.

When I suggested more vulnerability to general and penetrating weapon hits, I meant something in which AP rounds for ACs and Tandem Charge SRMs suffered no determining critical hit roll penalties (penetrating), or which suffered an automatic TAC on to hit roll 12 (general).
I also have a blog about gaming, comics, and news at vanvelding.blogspot.

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4230
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2022, 21:23:52 »


I get the advantages. I'm saying it's fiddly to calculate percentages and roll 2D6 twice when rolling hit locations. Is that for each hit location of, say, an LBX10?

The nice part is that the percentage only needs to be calculated during construction.  During the game you'd just have a note on the armor for 15%, 30%, or more.

If 4's, 5's, and 6's are disproportionately pulled from 4D6 rolls for location from 'mechs that mount 70-75% max armor, then you end up with 15/36 rolls pulling those numbers into determining critical hits and leaning hit locations towards the right side of the 'mech.

Even having two 2D6 rolls in which only the one which rolls 8+ is a critical hit will also pull the other numbers towards the right side.

When I suggested more vulnerability to general and penetrating weapon hits, I meant something in which AP rounds for ACs and Tandem Charge SRMs suffered no determining critical hit roll penalties (penetrating), or which suffered an automatic TAC on to hit roll 12 (general).

It likely is pulling the 4-6 easier for hit locations, but I couldn't come up with an easier method than 4d6 using either any 1s or either pair is 1s.

For an LB-## cluster hit, rolling 4d6 for each hit would be horrible and a box-o-dice would be needed.

Made a spreadsheet of all 1296 possibilities, and for 2d6 + 2d6 where if either of them is 2 then the other pair of dice shows location, I got a total of 71 dice rolls that had a critical roll.  Since each 2d6 is rolled a total of 1296 times, that means each one rolls snake eyes 36 times (1296/36).  36 times two sets of dice would be 72, but in this case the double snake eyes only occurs once, so only one instance of 2&2 occurs.  However, a location of 12 can occur twice where the first 2d6 is 2 and the second is 12, and the other instance is where the first 2d6 are 12 and the second dice are 2.

This gives me the following distribution for a TAC using 2d6 + 2d6:
Location - TAC occurrences
2 - 1
3 - 4
4 - 6
5 - 8
6 - 10
7 - 12
8 - 10
9 - 8
10 - 6
11 - 4
12 - 2

For the other instances that are not critical (i.e. neither 2d6 is equal to 2), the distribution is:
Location - times hit
2 - 0
3 - 70
4 - 105
5 - 140
6 - 175
7 - 210
8 - 175
9 - 140
10 - 105
11 - 70
12 - 35

The main result is you don't get hit in the '2' location and instead preferentially in the '12' location, while the other locations have equal distribution.  The 2d6 + 2d6 is only extracting the '1' rolls.


Doing a similar setup for 4d6 using just a spreadsheet will be 'interesting'.

VanVelding

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 295
    • Powered by Indifference, Focused by Caffeine
Re: High-Density armor (the opposite of hardened armor)
« Reply #6 on: 28 November 2022, 20:24:01 »
I misread the rules you stated because my reading causes a lot more crits than yours did. Your system's drawback is that it doubles the odds of rolling a '2' on the hit location and that doesn't seem like a lot to me. I feel like we both did a lot of math bring me back to where I started.  :-\

At least I got to dust off my Python skills.
I also have a blog about gaming, comics, and news at vanvelding.blogspot.