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Author Topic: Light ECM Suites  (Read 1434 times)

Daryk

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Light ECM Suites
« on: 05 February 2022, 11:13:16 »
It just occurred to me that Probes and TAG have "Light" versions, but not ECM.  So:

Light ECM Suite (IS):
1 ton
2 hex range

Extra Light ECM Suite (IS):
0.5 ton
0 hex range

I think the various stealth systems would still require a full system to function, as the extra processing has to come from somewhere.

Clan fans can feel free to make their own...  8)

AlphaMirage

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #1 on: 05 February 2022, 11:59:57 »
Clantech ECM is one ton. Additionally you can get a Watchdog which has half the range of both but in a nice convenient package

Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #2 on: 05 February 2022, 12:09:23 »
And yes, you can argue the clan stuff has already been made canon...  ^-^

Lagrange

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #3 on: 05 February 2022, 16:59:37 »
IS BA ECM is 100kg and works for a single hex. 

Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2022, 18:34:24 »
And isn't shock mounted and cooled under 'mech armor.  I figure 400 more kg to make it work on a 'mech is reasonable.  The cable runs to the extra antennas alone probably account for half the extra weight.

Charistoph

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #5 on: 06 February 2022, 11:15:40 »
It just occurred to me that Probes and TAG have "Light" versions, but not ECM.  So:

Light ECM Suite (IS):
1 ton
2 hex range

Extra Light ECM Suite (IS):
0.5 ton
0 hex range

I think the various stealth systems would still require a full system to function, as the extra processing has to come from somewhere.

Clan fans can feel free to make their own...  8)

I would set the Light ECM's range to 4 to match the Watchdog's range, and the Extra Light to 2.  That this would be Inner Sphere tech as the Clans already have superior models, is obvious, and you've noted.

If you're worried about balance, maybe they could have two settings, basic setting is as you have it, but then add an "overcharge mode" which extends its range by 2 for 2 Heat, to match the Nova's heat build up.

They would also be cheaper in BV AND C-Bills as a result from any of the Clan gear, the Guardian, and the Angel. 
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #6 on: 06 February 2022, 11:19:33 »
That's a good idea!  :thumbsup:

Colt Ward

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #7 on: 17 February 2022, 17:23:14 »
Check out what the BA Angel can do as supported by the Leonidas.  It is not just ECM, but Angel which trumps certain things.
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #8 on: 17 February 2022, 18:40:56 »
Unfortunately, TPTB decided to take clan tech to that level.  It doesn't surprise me at all that clan tech can get that far in RAW...

Colt Ward

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #9 on: 17 February 2022, 19:05:46 »
 . . . Angel is IS tech . . . and the Leonidas is a League suit.
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #10 on: 17 February 2022, 20:10:46 »
Ugh.. I've clearly lost all track of things after 3049...  :P

idea weenie

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #11 on: 17 February 2022, 21:02:21 »
And isn't shock mounted and cooled under 'mech armor.  I figure 400 more kg to make it work on a 'mech is reasonable.  The cable runs to the extra antennas alone probably account for half the extra weight.

Now this could be a nice rule: BA equipment can only be externally mounted on Mechs.  Any hits to the body location where the equipment is mounted will destroy the external equipment.

Gives a new reason for enemy units to fire crit-seeking munitions when facing an enemy Mech, as enough hits to enough different locations will destroy the BA-scale equipment mounted in the locations hit.

CVB

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #12 on: 17 February 2022, 23:26:08 »
Interesting idea. Maybe add an upper limit of BA items (per location?), just to avoid someone replacing the ML of a Savannah Master with 5 BA SRM6(OS)s, or with 28 Light TAGs to illuminate a whole map.
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #13 on: 18 February 2022, 04:11:58 »
My main concern with BA scale ECM suites on 'mechs is that you would really need more antennas to get full coverage.

Charistoph

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #14 on: 18 February 2022, 10:47:41 »
Now this could be a nice rule: BA equipment can only be externally mounted on Mechs.  Any hits to the body location where the equipment is mounted will destroy the external equipment.

Or use the same rules as the Exposed Weapon Linkage Quirk, allowing it to be destroyed on a separate 'crit' roll when that same location is hit.  (Basically, a roll of 2D6 is made if the section is hit, on a 10+ the item is broken as if it was an internal crit).

Interesting idea. Maybe add an upper limit of BA items (per location?), just to avoid someone replacing the ML of a Savannah Master with 5 BA SRM6(OS)s, or with 28 Light TAGs to illuminate a whole map.
My main concern with BA scale ECM suites on 'mechs is that you would really need more antennas to get full coverage.

Both good considerations.  On those ideas, I propose the following

For the first, consider Mod Armor as the path and a specific weight limit of items that all round up to the nearest half ton each.  They can also be attached "ad hoc" such that they can put on lower tech equipment far more easily than would installing an optimized suite.  Such would be subject to the Quirk mentioned above.

For the second, it operates on that facing.  I.E. BA ECM on the Right Arm won't interfere on Artemis hitting from attacks that use Left Side or Rear chart.  Torso only operates from attacks that line up with the immediately front hex (or Rear if so mounted).  NARC Homing Beacons are only affected if they are on the next location attached, i.e. Right Arm BAECM only affects NARCs that hit the Right Arm, Right Torso, and Right Leg, while Homing Beacons on the the CT, Head, or Left side won't be interferred with unless the shots use the Right Side
« Last Edit: 18 February 2022, 13:18:58 by Charistoph »
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Colt Ward

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #15 on: 18 February 2022, 10:51:32 »
So . . . the Leonidas BA ECM field has a 3 hex radius- which is why I suggested it, makes it half the regular ECM.  It does that if there is 1 suit active, 4 for a squad or 5 for a point.  Consider the Hummer's Duke system as a jammer, it does not require antennaes everywhere . . . antennaes everywhere are needed for sensors, usually not sensor jammers.
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #16 on: 18 February 2022, 16:03:03 »
Aside from not wanting to talk about possibly classified real world stuff, HMMVs are MUCH smaller than every 'mech.  They're basically 5-ton jeeps...

Also, IEDs that go off behind you are MUCH less of a worry...

Colt Ward

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #17 on: 18 February 2022, 16:17:18 »
We will keep it to simple math . . . sensors need a large spread area so that you can compare two different returns- gets into parallax (what you have w/2 points rather than 3 for triangulation), shifts in frequency, etc.  Think of that giant dish built into a crater that was used for SETI and movie sets.  Or sharks which have a 'lateral line' which is a sensor running the length of the shark's body, the shark's brain compares results that come in down the length to determine the position of a target.

Compare that to your police radar jammers.  You only need a single broadcasting point, and to pump energy into the device for emission to disrupt returns.
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #18 on: 18 February 2022, 16:24:39 »
Cars aren't really big enough to shadow emitters.  'Mechs are...

Charistoph

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #19 on: 20 February 2022, 15:34:32 »
Also consider that that aside from the bulk and general interference a Mech or future Combat Vehicle itself may cause, externally mounted ECM Suites likely would not be operating on the unit's power plant, but on an internal battery, much like Battle Armor suits are.  This could lead to focused emissions to save power, but still be strong enough to have a desired area of affect.
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Red Pins

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #20 on: 02 March 2022, 23:16:49 »
It just occurred to me that Probes and TAG have "Light" versions, but not ECM.  So:

Light ECM Suite (IS):
1 ton
2 hex range

Extra Light ECM Suite (IS):
0.5 ton
0 hex range

I think the various stealth systems would still require a full system to function, as the extra processing has to come from somewhere.

Clan fans can feel free to make their own...  8)

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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #21 on: 03 March 2022, 04:12:49 »
Glad you like it!  :thumbsup:

Red Pins

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #22 on: 03 March 2022, 06:26:23 »
I do think it needs some limitations, though.  No ghost targets?
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #23 on: 03 March 2022, 19:21:51 »
I think the Light one could manage that, but maybe not the XL...

Red Pins

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #24 on: 03 March 2022, 19:58:29 »
Hmm, my WoB drones need protection from ECM - I wonder if this could work with ECCM.  Opinions?
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Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #25 on: 03 March 2022, 20:49:51 »
ECCM is something both versions should be able to do...  :)

Red Pins

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #26 on: 03 March 2022, 22:09:45 »
Too munchie.  Don't want to design something without flaws or too powerful, maybe dedicated BAP circuitry, just weaker emitter? 
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Charistoph

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #27 on: 04 March 2022, 00:14:41 »
ECCM with these wouldn't help much for Drones.  It would only stop ECM that is right on top of them, meaning that the Operator would need to be right next to it and have their own ECCM to be of any use.

Just thinking on it, if going with the "Boosted" option, i.e. the Light goes from 2-4 Range for the price of 2 Heat, it would only apply to units which can measure Heat.  If it doesn't, then it would have failure points like the Blue Shield or Radical Heat Sink in which it could crit itself if you fail the roll.  Of course, one could just ignore the Heat issue and just include the failure rate when Boosted as a default.
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idea weenie

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #28 on: 04 March 2022, 02:01:51 »
ECCM with these wouldn't help much for Drones.  It would only stop ECM that is right on top of them, meaning that the Operator would need to be right next to it and have their own ECCM to be of any use. 

Could it be useful if you are using semi-autonomous drones?  I.e. if there is no ECM interference then the drone follows the operator's commands as normal, but if there is ECM interference it uses basic drone logic, and if no targets in range tries to head to the last instructed position?

Daryk

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Re: Light ECM Suites
« Reply #29 on: 04 March 2022, 04:30:22 »
The very reduced range goes toward reducing "munchiness" in my mind.