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Author Topic: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.  (Read 5039 times)

DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #60 on: 16 February 2021, 17:44:10 »
Tag for further updates
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #61 on: 21 February 2021, 10:38:01 »
Update #9.1
Here's the Armor and some other equipment.

Some of it was completed some are not.

ver. list.
Advantages and Disadvantages MW2 ver.2
Affiliations 2400- 2770 ver. 3
Affiliation 3025-3052 ver.1
Background Packages ver. 2
Civilian Academies of the Innersphere ver.1
Civilian Careers (Non-Clan) ver. 2
Clan Packages ver. 2
General House Rule and Optional Rules ver. 3
Lost Limbs and Implant-Prosthetic options
Master Tables by Era (Optional Rule) ver. 2
Mechwarrior 2nd edition optional equipment rules ver. final
Tactical Armor Optional Rules ver. 1
Weapon Conversion ver. 1

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #62 on: 16 March 2021, 09:21:37 »
I understand Real Life getting in the way of things.

I finally had a look at the MechWarrior 2 Companion that you recommended.  It's both hit and miss for me.  (Snort at the pun if you wish.)

For one, the damage conversion from what the book states is a little off.  I'm generally okay with that.  However, unless I'm missing something, which may require a more thorough read or reread of that book and the core rules, then the main 'life meter' takes damage regardless of where the damage lands.  It's Reminiscent of Heavy Gear or the SilCore rules from DP9.  The way the armor is stated to work, however, I find it hard to see how the arm segment isn't taking its own set of stats on a Battle Suit. 

See, the SilCore system at least weakens the unit and sets it up to be OSKed more readily.  BA in BT, however, are described to protect the wearer up to the point it can't.  So, I think I see what's going on here, where some of the damage goes to the main body, and the rest goes to whatever happens to be hit.  I'm of a mind it should be more all or nothing, with most of the damage going to the main body simply because the trooper is constantly in motion, due to the mobile aspect of armor protection.

I'll post more on this later. My time's up.  Gotta go to work.
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #63 on: 16 March 2021, 13:15:01 »
Not sure if you are taking about small arms or mech scale for the damage.
If small arms you are correct, damage is split between the armor and the pilot based on the damage divisor (1/2,2/3, etc.).
If you are taking about Mech scale damage the armor takes the whole amount.
This is due to the spared-out nature of mech weapon damage and the the more pinpoint damage of small arms fire.

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #64 on: 02 April 2021, 14:35:33 »
I was looking at the small-arms aspect from the RPG. 

My issue is the aspect of rolling a hit location, and then the whole suit taking the damage to the last point.

At least with HG, the more damage you take, the more likely you are to be One-shotted by a follow-up attack.

With MechWarrior, Even if you consider the damage to a non-body location to be splash damage, where the core of the body still takes damage from the attack, and the other portion is applied to the hit location, there's still the oddity of rolling the same place more than once. 

Considering what they state the BA weapons are supposed to be in the companion, which I am totally fine with, I don't see a lot of Mech weapons being area-effect blast weapons, aside from the shear power being put into the attack.  A laser beam isn't more than a centimeter or two in width.  AC rounds might be wide, depending on make and model.  And, then there's the thing to be said for accuracy, especially if BT is supposed to be a super-futuristic science fiction setting.

[Framework explanation]
I've made many statements in the past (which have probably been long since buried in the threads with time...) that I look at BT hits and misses in the same way Gygax described an attack for DnD.  A miss isn't a failure to contact with your target.  It's a failure to hit a part that registers as damage in game terms.  And, my amplified interpretation of Mech combat instills some extra mobility.  (Immobile targets impart a -4 target bonus and you can attack specific locations.)  This applies to all combat units, including infantry.  Note: You cannot construct naked bystander Infantry units.

It's much more extensive than that basic statement, incorporating predictive computer interaction with the motion of the unit, both offensively and defensively, but that should suffice.
[/framework]

With the framework in mind, I've always viewed the BA HP to actually be the core body, where the suit isn't as mobile.  The armor uses motion to turn hits into 'misses', or no damage.  BA Limbs can be constantly in motion, thus take no damage.  But, the body isn't in the same kind of unpredictable motion as the limbs.  This is why we don't see accuracy or motive damage when BA take hits, even from infantry. 

But, that doesn't mean those locations shouldn't be taking damage. 

I personally would have BA statted with individual location armor values when dealing with indiscriminate fire, like form infantry MG bursts, explosive blasts from grenades and rockets, and so-on for the RPG level. 

So, I suppose, it would be cool to see the Mech sheet system done with people, especially BA, but with stats amplified for the smaller scale.

 
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #65 on: 02 April 2021, 16:46:26 »
That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.

From my perspective, the tabletop game is the center of the universe.  Everything (in either direction) is a generalization from one direction or the other.  BA shouldn't have "hit locations" any more than unarmored (by which I mean, not power armored) infantry at TW scale.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #66 on: 10 April 2021, 21:06:07 »
This issues has always been a sticking point for me in Battletech/Mechwarrior and other games that use hit locations.
The fact of the matter is, most if not all range weapon training focus on hitting the target's center of mass.
Looking for the firer to hit center of mass 80%+ of the time.
The idea of targeting head/arms/legs is never broth up in training because it reduced the chance of hitting the target.
Soldiers like sniper tend to be naturally talented marksman from the start and are trained to increase this precession, they are not trained from a soldier that can't hit the broadside of a barn to master marksmen.
This extends to every aspect of shooting, so the idea that somehow a trained rifleman is going to aim for center of mass and somehow shoot the target in the toe is just funny.
Rifles/mech guns/etc. would have to be pretty inaccurate for the tables to make sense. As the Mech is for the most part just a larger humanoid profile with the guns scaling up at about the same scale, the center torso would receive the highest number of impacts (around 80%) with only slight variations in impact locations mainly hitting the facing arm or rarely the head. Hitting the legs would be a one in 100 chances as the variation from the aiming point would be astronomical unless the weapon/targeting system was in major need of realignment.

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #67 on: 11 April 2021, 04:20:17 »
Well, the facing torsos are placed at 7 on the location table... granted, that's only around 15%.  Heck, taking it down to d2s only gets the middle result up to 50%.  80% is a pretty steep bell curve...

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #68 on: 14 April 2021, 00:18:35 »
That to me is the failure of the charts and the hit locations in the first place. It adds extra rolls and stats that could be handled as "you hit the Torso unless you aim somewhere else.
Like Rifts where you always hit main body but, it gives hit points for other areas for you to aim at.

Wrangler

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #69 on: 14 April 2021, 05:47:04 »
victor_shaw, are you going to compile this into a doc of some kind?  It will easier to comb through it once it done like that.
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #70 on: 14 April 2021, 15:36:21 »
That approach would require a complete revamp of armor, weapons or both.  Not even an Atlas could withstand everything hitting the torso all the time.

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #71 on: 14 April 2021, 18:13:20 »
victor_shaw, are you going to compile this into a doc of some kind?  It will easier to comb through it once it done like that.

?, Are you talking about the conversions above or the discussion Daryk an I are having?
As for the conversions, I was planning on creating a book in Pubilsher (about 1/4 done) then converting it into a PDF but due to me putting the whole thing on the backburner due to other obligations and my game group switching to another game I have made little or no progress with the conversion in over 3 months.
Also, Some of the data in the files are either not converted or in to raw of a state for to push out as anything other then "here are some charts convert it yourself" which I am uncomfortable doing. If I find a large amount of time or my other game goes on break I may revisit this in the future, but as it stands I am currently not doing any work on this project.

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #72 on: 19 April 2021, 12:06:51 »
[Nomenclature note - I'll be calling the basic Mech Combat Game of BattleTech, what most people refer to as Total Warfare, as Core BattleTech.]

That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.

From my perspective, the tabletop game is the center of the universe.  Everything (in either direction) is a generalization from one direction or the other.  BA shouldn't have "hit locations" any more than unarmored (by which I mean, not power armored) infantry at TW scale.

Uh, we're discussing RPG level, not TW level. And, RPG level can blend into a BattleTroops level game.  Honestly, aside from some well-equipped, well-trained, frontline troops, which are few in number.  Most infantry shouldn't be on a TW field, beyond as components for something else, like bunkers, towed guns, specialist passengers in APCs which can be used to plant explosives on an objective, clear out a building, take over a control tower or weapons turret, etc. 

In a land of high-powered lasers that can melt armor, and missiles the size of three-liter bottles exploding with shrapnel and force comparable to modern AtG missiles, exposed skin, as depicted on the stock trooper out of a house book, can't expect to survive even stray shots on that pass close.  Remember some of the novels dealing with folks carrying laser pistols? Those folks operate at a different level.  Nowhere near where Core BattleTech operates or depicts.

In fact, in our games, we rarely use stock infantry beyond what I listed above.  I have a friend who refuses to run them, preferring tanks and Mechs.  I'm the one that has to include the infantry objective pieces and the occasional air strike.

And, again, I want the hit locations mapped on infantry mostly for indiscriminate fire, like Artillery, LB-X fire, and the like. 

[random idea] If I were to do anything to allow for stray shots or poor shot-groupings, it would be over range.  Range bands would have a different hit chart applied at each one for burst fire.  For example, Short range is main body.  Medium range would be punch hit, or something like it.  Long and extreme would be full-body chart as depicted in Core BattleTech.   Single shot weapons might get to ignore this, especially beam weaponry, getting the typical range mod, instead.

I've been playing around with this for a Macross Mod for BT.  BT is on a whole different level than anything modern, in my imagination.  So, when shots should be grouping well, especially with computer assist, which on an Abrams makes for a hit with maybe a single percent failure to strike, it is hard to justify random location hits.  With the exception of, say, arm interference, which can't be predicted.  A Valk carrying a rifle like a man who is shot in the chest could easily take the hit on the weapon or arm(s) carrying it.

But, if you look at the RoboTech RPG rules and stats, even they have the damage going to the core body.  However, I look at the missiles, which have an AoE, I realize that that blast will be damaging more than just the core body.  You could lose sensors, damage a limb, and so-on.  And, if I were to GM, I'd be enforcing that.

That logic goes back to the 2nd ed and other RPGs.  The Core BattleTech rules for BA reflect center-of-mass targeting for particularly accurate weapons particularly well, barring the super armor and application of mobility to inflict high attack-failure rates.  Then, to have the damaged reduced in the RPG and apply it to randomized locations?  The full damage of a single Core Rules point of damage converted is, just off memory, 5d6+5?  (I remember it maxing out between 35 and 40.  Someone feel free to correct me.)  Even if we average it to 20, if you take the full HP of the suit as given in the companion and divide it by the Core Rules stats, you get between 12 and 13(?), which doesn't work out.  Which means some of that damage is 'splashing', by those standards. 

I strongly don't agree with that.

[Another Random Idea]
Now, if people want splash effects and potential BA crits, we could look at the MaxTech 'Glancing Shot' rules for Direct fire weapons.  It logically makes sense.  Apply that to a crit chance table like a Mech, and in the RPG, roll which location takes the rest of the damage, or use an Alpha Strike crit table for Core Level play. 

I actually like the idea of a little more complexity in my infantry, and BA taking crits makes sense.  But, I also want to be able to target individual suits with individual weapons, instead of firing at the group as a unit.  And, I also feel that Rolling for each individual suit's ranged attack, instead of on the cluster table isn't a bad idea, either, even though that would mean randomizing each trooper's skills.  Our group plays with randomized skills already.

So, yeah. I would prefer the RPG to reflect the Core BT rules in some respects, especially when it comes to Armored Combat Units. That means the HP of a Power Suit applying solely to the core body, and matching the point values as they would be converted, at least being average, if not max.

The idea of the extra detail would be simply to have it available for the odd circumstances where it might come into play, which is where the RPG is supposed to shine.  And, it would be on the back-end of unit design.


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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #73 on: 19 April 2021, 16:47:45 »
The RoboTech RPG was from Palladium, right?  What little I remember of that system wasn't very compatible with a 2d6 bell curve, which is the "norm" of BattleTech.

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #74 on: 19 April 2021, 16:56:53 »
D20.  Oddly enough, though, the absolute miss value would match 3 or less on 2d6, which I found amusing.  The other incompatibility was, I believe, a 14 second turn duration.  And, inside that turn, depending on level, a character could crack off an attack every two seconds.
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #75 on: 19 April 2021, 17:29:50 »
D20 is also a flat percentage system, though with larger 'steps'.  Neither melds with a bell curve well.

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #76 on: 20 April 2021, 09:41:41 »
That's... pretty much 180 out from how I see it.

Yeah. I think I'm one of a rare few.  Hard to say, though.

Although, the discussion on how to handle things like infantry on the Table Top I've discussed in other threads. For instance, if you're really going to trivialize infantry, why stop at body tracking?  Why not go one step further to 'squad eliminated/not eliminated'?

edit:
D20 is also a flat percentage system, though with larger 'steps'.  Neither melds with a bell curve well.

2d6 isn't as much of a curve as you think.  It's more of a pyramid, which makes it easier to convert d20 into.  It's when you get to 3dx, 4dx, and beyond that the bell starts to happen.

« Last Edit: 20 April 2021, 09:43:30 by Daemion »
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #77 on: 25 April 2021, 08:55:51 »
The RoboTech RPG was from Palladium, right?  What little I remember of that system wasn't very compatible with a 2d6 bell curve, which is the "norm" of BattleTech.

I was not saying that they should not keep the same to hit system that is currently used.
But as Daemion stated it's not so much a bell curve as a pyramid.
The truth is 2d6 is not and has never been a good way to resolve actions. It's way to narrow of a range and spikes way to high in the center.
3d6 would be far superior in both range and has the smoother bell curve you are talking about. 
As for my comment, I was talking more on the subject of damaging the target not hitting the target.
The main issues with AGoAC and in the same vain AToW is the complexity for complexity sake design philosophy they tend to follow.
Their is a reason that after all these years that MW2 still ranks 2nd almost and tied for 1st in the poll I ran for what versions of the RPG everyone plays.
It's simple where it needs to be and rules heavy but streamlined where it needs to be.
Battletech is a product of its time when wargamers wanted detailed hit charts and damage resolution.
That era has passed.
If you asked almost anyone who bought into the KS why they did so I can assure you that most would say for the cheap minis and other addons and not the game rules.
As for the d20 system from Palladium, that system is based on the individuals modifiers more then anything else and depends on the targets ability to dodge over coming up with modifiers to make the attacker miss.
As was stated the base to hit number is set at 3 as it is assumed that most weapons attacks are computer aided or self-guided, so it's the targets responsibility to get out of the way or dodge the attack.
I see it as no matter how you put it Battlemechs are large targets that are definitely slower than every type of attack directed at them (Laser-speed of light, Gauss rifles'-speed of sound, missiles-self guided and tracking) so they are not going to be as hard to hit as the game makes it out to be.
And even more unrealistic is the fact that range or the speed of the mechs plays any part in the to hit numbers at all.

Gauss Rifle (Railgun)- Shell moving at about Mach 6, or 5,400 miles an hour with a true effective range of about 126 miles on land or about 6,759 battletech hexes.
Pules Lasers (Laser) There was a recent experiment in which a laser pulse travels at more than 300 times the speed of light or 90,000,000 km/sec or in BT terms 30,000,000,000 hexes in one second.
Base Lasers (Laser) have a speed of 300,000 km/sec or in BT terms 100,000,000 hexes in one second.
Missiles (Anti-Tank) have a speed of 278–320 m/s or around 9 to 10 hexes per second with ranges around 3,750 m or around 125 hexes.
PPC (particle beam weapon) This one hits a road block as particle beam weapon don't currently work in any type of atmosphere, but do reach the speed of light (299,792,458 m/s) in vacuum.
Autocannons (Bushmaster M242) speed of shell 1,100 meters per second or 367 hexes in a battletech turn with an effective kill range of 3,000 metres or 1,000 hexes
And these are just the current modern day equivalents of the battletech weapons and targeting systems.
so I can't see a 8 to 14 meters tall robot moving at speeds (Fastest moving 134 mph) well below what these weapons can hit ever getting out of the way.
So that is why I prescribe to the idea that the to hit numbers are mostly irrelevant and it show all come down to damage capacity only.
Movement modifiers to me are only something that would matter to something as fast as a light mech, and these would be low.

Again AGoAC is a product of its time and to me needs to be seriously overhauled or just left to die.
That said, I like the BTU and some of the RPG options that it has but they will never truly be worked on outside of fan works.
And since I don't have the time or need to do the work myself I am pretty much done with battletech in all its incarnations.
« Last Edit: 25 April 2021, 09:05:56 by victor_shaw »

Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #78 on: 25 April 2021, 09:45:01 »
I'm pretty sure someone misread something to yield an experimental result that exceeded the speed of light in a vacuum.

I think the weapon speed has much less to do with hitting than the ability to obtain and maintain a targeting lock.  That's where all the "routine" ECM and such is assumed away.

I also think as long as games like 40K are out there to satisfy the "one and done" crowd, BattleTech will happily fill the niche for those of us who like a little more detail.  BT players who want a little less of that play Alpha Strike.

idea weenie

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #79 on: 25 April 2021, 13:06:50 »
But as Daemion stated it's not so much a bell curve as a pyramid.
The truth is 2d6 is not and has never been a good way to resolve actions. It's way to narrow of a range and spikes way to high in the center.
3d6 would be far superior in both range and has the smoother bell curve you are talking about. 

How about 4d6/2, FRU?  A little extra math, but it has more rolls occurring between 6 and 9 than the existing 2d6 chart.  The FRU part means you are more likely to hit, but it does follow another gaming rule I read - round in favor of blowing stuff up.

Here is what an average table of those 1296 rolls would look like, vs taking the 2d6 count and multiplying that by 36 (36*36 = 1296):
Roll    2d6    2d6*12    4d6/2, FRU
21361
327214
4310855
54144136
65180229
76216286
85180265
94144184
10310891
1127230
121365

This sort of roll will make it nicer on Ultra and RAC autocannons, as their jams will occur far less often.

Ultra AC go from 3% of the time (1 in 36) to 1 in 1296 (~.1%)
RAC firing at 6 rounds/turn go from a 16.7% chance of a jam, to 5.4% chance of a jam.

For to-hit locations the person rolling would have to decide f they want to round up or down before making their 4d6 roll.  It would be very annoying if they rolled 1,1,1,2, and had said they were rounding up, and just as annoying if they rolled 6,6,6,5 and had said they were rounding down.
« Last Edit: 30 April 2021, 05:13:41 by idea weenie »

DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #80 on: 28 April 2021, 12:10:41 »
Uh, we're discussing RPG level, not TW level. And, RPG level can blend into a BattleTroops level game.  Honestly, aside from some well-equipped, well-trained, frontline troops, which are few in number.  Most infantry shouldn't be on a TW field, beyond as components for something else, like bunkers, towed guns, specialist passengers in APCs which can be used to plant explosives on an objective, clear out a building, take over a control tower or weapons turret, etc. 

In a land of high-powered lasers that can melt armor, and missiles the size of three-liter bottles exploding with shrapnel and force comparable to modern AtG missiles, exposed skin, as depicted on the stock trooper out of a house book, can't expect to survive even stray shots on that pass close.  Remember some of the novels dealing with folks carrying laser pistols? Those folks operate at a different level.  Nowhere near where Core BattleTech operates or depicts.

In fact, in our games, we rarely use stock infantry beyond what I listed above.  I have a friend who refuses to run them, preferring tanks and Mechs.  I'm the one that has to include the infantry objective pieces and the occasional air strike.
Well our old group we used to have infantry on the field but we often did campaigns not single games.  I until banned because I was too evil, now I just look like a nice guy compared to the nasty evil of truetanker, I used to use a Scout/Sniper unit using just weapons from old 3026TRO.  If I used them now I would go with Daryk recreation of them for the modern S/S squads
Now, modified Barton AMRs with AP ammo:
(3 x AR++ = 3 * 1.01 = 3.03) + (2 x Barton AMR Sniper Rifles with extended magazines (triple cost) = 2 * 0.74 = 1.48) = 4.51 rounds to 5 damage per squad at 7/14/21 range and no mobility penalty, but a +1 to hit at 0 hex range (the Bartons are Encumbering).
all wearing Camo/IR sneaksuits were fortunately the example in AToW (page 298):
Quote
Note: All modifiers are cumulative, but only apply to an infantry unit if all the unit’s members are using the same stealth gear type. (For example, infantry wearing Combination IR/Camo gear (E/I/C: 0/6/4) gets no benefit for ECM, applies attack roll modifiers of –1/–1/–2/–3 for Short/Medium/Long/Extreme ranges respectively, and additional attack roll modifiers of –2/–1/+0/+0/+0 if the stealthed unit moves 0/1/2/3/4 MP per turn. The unit cannot hide from probes, but a stationary unit wearing such combo stealth gear would apply a –3 attack roll modifier at short range [–1 for Short Range –2 for stationary].)

Now what I used my forces was to annoy forces or once capture a Rearming/Reammo site, by killing mechjock out of their units in a "safe zone"

I also once ran the urban militia "read gangbangers and mix of weekend warriors  and a few professional military guys and units" who really didn't do much in the battle between the "raider mech forces" and defending mechs, we might have shot at bothsides lack of pros and suddenly seeing a Mech means shoot.  However at the end game the was a raider mech who ejected, that my force captured, he landed between 3 "gangbanger inf forces" and was wise and surrendered to me. 

But yes in normal open field I'm not sure PBI needs to be on battlefield unless they have special role to play
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #81 on: 28 April 2021, 18:43:32 »
Thanks for the shout out DOC_Agren!  Both the AR++ and Barton he describes are available in my sig-block (it's an index of my various threads).  :thumbsup:

Also, the "Urban Guerilla" SPA from the AToW Companion (page 71) was MADE for you!  >:D

DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #82 on: 29 April 2021, 13:48:53 »
Thanks for the shout out DOC_Agren!  Both the AR++ and Barton he describes are available in my sig-block (it's an index of my various threads).  :thumbsup:

Also, the "Urban Guerilla" SPA from the AToW Companion (page 71) was MADE for you!  >:D
Yes it could be.  8)
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

Daemion

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #83 on: 29 April 2021, 15:55:26 »
Again AGoAC is a product of its time and to me needs to be seriously overhauled or just left to die.
That said, I like the BTU and some of the RPG options that it has but they will never truly be worked on outside of fan works.
And since I don't have the time or need to do the work myself I am pretty much done with battletech in all its incarnations.

That's too bad to hear.  But, sometimes, tastes change. 

I actually like my head-cannon behind the armor pretty much being the key to the high 'miss' (or, rather, failure) rates as presented in the game.  Super armor was a thing for some Mecha, including the lauded Gundam prototype.  And, since BT really derives from that genre in a lot of ways, it makes sense that super armor would be the one bit of fantasy to still allow for the setting to work.  Throw in advanced programming and sensors taking advantage of the material's damage capacities, and you get shots rendered ineffective from computed, defensive motions.

It's one of the reasons I actually went back to the BMR for vehicle rules.  Oblique shots shouldn't be causing damage, since, in my mind, that's what it takes to get a 'miss'.

Anyhow, thanks for what work you've done.  If I want to use this for the basis of a MW2 style BattleTroops, it shouldn't be too hard to convert damage values.



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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #84 on: 29 April 2021, 15:56:16 »
How about 4d6/2, FRU?  A little extra math, but it has more rolls occurring between 6 and 9 than the existing 2d6 chart.  The FRU part means you are more likely to hit, but it does follow another gaming rule I read - round in favor of blowing stuff up.
...

This sort of roll will make it nicer on Ultra and RAC autocannons, as their jams will occur far less often.

Ultra AC go from 3% of the time (1 in 36) to 1 in 1296 (~.01%)
RAC firing at 6 rounds/turn go from a 16.7% chance of a jam, to 5.4% chance of a jam.

For to-hit locations the person rolling would have to decide f they want to round up or down before making their 4d6 roll.  It would be very annoying if they rolled 1,1,1,2, and had said they were rounding up, and just as annoying if they rolled 6,6,6,5 and had said they were rounding down.

This might be interesting to try out.
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Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

I helped make a game! ^_^  - Forge Of War: Tactics

victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #85 on: 07 May 2021, 22:47:56 »
That's too bad to hear.  But, sometimes, tastes change. 

I actually like my head-cannon behind the armor pretty much being the key to the high 'miss' (or, rather, failure) rates as presented in the game.  Super armor was a thing for some Mecha, including the lauded Gundam prototype.  And, since BT really derives from that genre in a lot of ways, it makes sense that super armor would be the one bit of fantasy to still allow for the setting to work.  Throw in advanced programming and sensors taking advantage of the material's damage capacities, and you get shots rendered ineffective from computed, defensive motions.

It's one of the reasons I actually went back to the BMR for vehicle rules.  Oblique shots shouldn't be causing damage, since, in my mind, that's what it takes to get a 'miss'.

Anyhow, thanks for what work you've done.  If I want to use this for the basis of a MW2 style BattleTroops, it shouldn't be too hard to convert damage values.

Thank you, I tried to come up with the most in universe answers to the missing elements of MW2 as it was lefts incomplete by the sudden mid-run switch over to 3rd.
As I am still a fan of the universe itself, I will more then likely come back to this conversion at some point in the future, but as it stands between work and my current game (Mystara 5th edition game) I have little time to setup for and run my own game let alone work on an RPG that I am not and will not be running anytime soon.
So Mechwarrior 2.5 has falling into the same category as my Shatterzone GURPS conversion as a game I would like to finish (I tend to be a completionist) But just can't find the time or immediate need to work on.

As for the Battlearmor issue, If you want to use it AToW has rules for BA hit locations that could easily be ported over to MW2 sa the latter has far more of a hitpoint system then the former.

To an earlier question, no their are no plans (at this point) to work all the current files into a single document, as they are all in different formats do to the prosses I was using to do the conversion (Excel>Word>PDF>Publisher>Back to PDF). The Idea was to get it all into Publisher format then create one or two fully fleshed out PDF books. As this was the case most of the completed work is still stuck in pre edited publisher format and would have to be edited and reformatted to be converted to PDF form.
Add to this that if and when I return to the project I would have to go through it all again when I finish and it seems to me like double work within my limited time for incomplete data. That was also the reason I stopped posting the conversion directly to the forums as I was spending a great deal of time (I didn't have) reformatting the info to show up correctly on the thread.

All that said, thanks for the support and knowing that their are others that are interested in my pet project is the only reason that I have not abandon it out right to this point. As a side note my work does have slow seasons and I may be getting more free-time in 3-4 months so I may reevaluating my time and see if I can get back to work on this, but just to be clear this project (do to lack of interest from my gaming group) is super low priority so even if I do get back to it, it might not be finished before work picks back up again.



DOC_Agren

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #86 on: 17 May 2021, 19:57:01 »
Well if you come back to this know there are some of us out there still interested
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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #87 on: 20 May 2021, 10:44:58 »
A another suggestion is use Shadow Run SR5 rules for the Battle armor stuff. I've been games where it was adapted along with Battle Mechs, seem work in the GM's home brew adaption.  The Battle Armor in it's own form is used in SR.  I'm not experienced SR6, but i'm not sure how it's handled.
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior Second Edition Optional rule.
« Reply #88 on: 16 June 2021, 11:15:49 »
By request here is a reupload of the weapons and equipment PDF.

 

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